Is Gaston Glock on the same level as John Browning? [Archive] - Glock Talk

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ticshooter
02-07-2013, 03:25
Hey guys. I'm an enthusiast of both pistols but thought I would ask the same question here as I did on the 1911 Forum.

Is Gaston Glock on the same level as John Browning? I understand John Browning's accomplishmets with his designs but I also understand Gaston Glocks with his. Browning's designs have been around for over 100 years but it looks like Gaston's designs may be the design of the future if it already isn't.. I'm not partial to either design because I own and enjoy them both. I'm just wondering if you think Gaston and Browning are on the same level and why?

RyanBDawg
02-07-2013, 03:32
No. John Browning was a firearms master. His designs were radically apart from anything else being done in his day. He came as close to re-inventing firearms as anyone in history has. His lock-breech design is used in virtually every semi-auto pistol to this day, including Glock.


Gaston Glock is a toolmaker who made a fantastic, and utterly reliable tool which shoots bullets. I would say Gaston's most important contribution has been in materials which pistols (now) are made out of, and precision manufacturing.

Three-Five-Seven
02-07-2013, 04:12
No. John Browning was a firearms master. His designs were radically apart from anything else being done in his day. He came as close to re-inventing firearms as anyone in history has. His lock-breech design is used in virtually every semi-auto pistol to this day, including Glock.


Gaston Glock is a toolmaker who made a fantastic, and utterly reliable tool which shoots bullets. I would say Gaston's most important contribution has been in materials which pistols (now) are made out of, and precision manufacturing.

+1 What he said!

LawScholar
02-07-2013, 04:27
Yes.

In the field of curtain rods.

Joking aside, the Glock is a great gun, but Glock is first and foremost a businessman, whereas JMB was an absolute prodigy in firearms design. He was instrumental in reshaping how guns were made.

Glock just figured out how to make a strong, simple, reliable design very inexpensively. Whether you're selling guns, floss, car parts, or IKEA furniture, that's a recipe for success.

As the above poster noted, the Glock operates on Browning principles. That ought to answer it right there. :)

RyanBDawg
02-07-2013, 04:31
Yes.

In the field of curtain rods.

Joking aside, the Glock is a great gun, but Glock is first and foremost a businessman, whereas JMB was an absolute prodigy in firearms design. He was instrumental in reshaping how guns were made.

Glock just figured out how to make a strong, simple, reliable design very inexpensively. Whether you're sellinv guns, floss, car parts, or IKEA furniture, that's a recipe for success.

As the above poster noted, the Glock operates on Browning principles. That ought to answer it right there. :)

Yep, in the field of firearms design, its John Moses Browning first, and then everyone else.

TKM
02-07-2013, 04:49
I think this myth has been busted....

Taphius
02-07-2013, 04:54
I view Glock much like Apple. Took a lot of ideas from other items and combined them into a good product. Except Apple has more mark up.

They both pretty much sit on the design that made them successful and are failing to innovate further.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I317 using Tapatalk 2

John Biltz
02-07-2013, 05:05
JMB was a genius and I don't like 1911s. Glock made a pistol. JMB made pump and auto shotguns, automatic and semiautomatic rifles, medium and heavy machine guns, lever action rifles and oh yeah, pistols. What is more every time it was revolutionary. The man was prolific, eclectic and brilliant. The .50 BMG is not only still in use by the military but will be in use for decades to come.

bac1023
02-07-2013, 05:15
God no

Arc Angel
02-07-2013, 05:45
NOT EVEN CLOSE!

(Not personally, not professionally)

Lowjiber
02-07-2013, 05:53
It's not just a coincidence. John Browning's middle name, that is.

faawrenchbndr
02-07-2013, 06:01
Oh heeeeeeeell no!

Bob Hafler
02-07-2013, 06:10
Pretty much got your answer already, but if your still in doubt.

Wikapedia John Browning and then Gaston Glock.
Nuff Said.

ronin.45
02-07-2013, 06:16
Not even on the same planet!

number1gun
02-07-2013, 06:31
Bill Ruger has Mr. glock beat.

silversport
02-07-2013, 06:35
Bill Ruger has Mr. Glock beat.

and he isn't up to Browning's genius...but he did make a nice car...

Bill

rgregoryb
02-07-2013, 07:49
hail NO. When the Glock 17 was introduced Gaston and some of his executives came to our PD as we evaluated the pistol. I asked him if they would produce the pistol in any other caliber than 9mm, he said no, there would not be a market for that. I was a proponent of the 45 back then

Nice guy, but not even close to JMB

Bren
02-07-2013, 08:49
Is Gaston Glock on the same level as John Browning? I understand John Browning's accomplishmets with his designs but I also understand Gaston Glocks with his. Browning's designs have been around for over 100 years but it looks like Gaston's designs may be the design of the future if it already isn't.. I'm not partial to either design because I own and enjoy them both. I'm just wondering if Gaston and Browning are on the same level and why?

That's a silly question. If you need to ask it, you won't udnerstand the answer.

John Browning invented the fundamental design principles of just about every modern gun, beyond revolvers.

Gaston Glock, made Browning-derived designs commercially successful in a polymer-framed gun, after other companies, like H&K, failed to do so. (Yes, it is a myth that Glock designed an entirely new type of gun, as anybody who knows guns knows).

John Browning:
Cartridges.25 ACP
.32 ACP
.38 ACP
9mm Browning Long
.380 ACP
.45 ACP
.50 BMG

Firearms

U.S. M1895 Colt-Browning machine gun
FN Browning M1899/M1900
Colt Model 1900
Colt Model 1902
Colt Model 1903 Pocket Hammer (.38 ACP)
Colt Model 1903 Pocket Hammerless (.32 ACP)
Colt Model 1905
FN Model 1906 Vest Pocket (.25 ACP)
Remington Model 8 (1906), a long recoil semi-automatic rifle
Colt Model 1908 Vest Pocket (.25 ACP)
Colt Model 1908 Pocket Hammerless (.380 ACP)
FN Model 1910
U.S. M1911 pistol (.45 ACP)
Colt Woodsman pistol
Winchester Model 1885 falling-block single shot rifle
Winchester Model 1886 lever-action repeating rifle
Winchester Model 1887 lever-action repeating shotgun
Winchester Model 1890 slide-action repeating rifle (.22)
Winchester Model 1892 lever-action repeating rifle
Winchester Model 1894 lever-action repeating rifle
Winchester Model 1895 lever-action repeating rifle
Winchester Model 1897 pump-action repeating shotgun
Browning Auto-5 long recoil semi-automatic shotgun
Browning 22 Semi-Auto rifle
U.S. M1917 water-cooled machine gun
U.S. M1919 air-cooled machine gun
U.S. M1918 Browning Automatic Rifle (BAR)
U.S. M2 .50-caliber heavy machine gun of 1921 (the famed "Ma-Deuce" weapon)
Remington Model 8 semi-auto rifle
Remington Model 24 semi-auto rifle (.22) Also produced by Browning Firearms (as the SA-22) and several others
Browning Hi-Power (Grand Puissance or GP), the standard sidearm of many military and police forces
The Browning Superposed over/under shotgun was designed by John Browning in 1922 and entered production in 1931
Ithaca Model 37 pump-action repeating shotgun

If you include guns designed by others, based on Browning's designs, add "all automatic and semi-automatic firearms to the list


Now, Gaston Glock:

Glock pistol - same action in various calibers and grip/slide lengths.

WoodenPlank
02-07-2013, 09:36
I view Glock much like Apple. Took a lot of ideas from other items and combined them into a good product. Except Apple has more mark up.

They both pretty much sit on the design that made them successful and are failing to innovate further.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I317 using Tapatalk 2

Abso-freaking-lutely.

As got comparing Glock to Browning..... it's not even close. Wake me up when Glock designs a radically new shotgun, improved heavy and medium machine guns, a couple more handguns, and a cartridge more useful than .45GAP.

pat701
02-07-2013, 09:47
No way:wow:

FLglockdude
02-07-2013, 09:48
Umm in short, hell friggen no.

I view Glock much like Apple. Took a lot of ideas from other items and combined them into a good product. Except Apple has more mark up.

They both pretty much sit on the design that made them successful and are failing to innovate further.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I317 using Tapatalk 2

Well said.

Sent from my Obama phone.

WayneJessie
02-07-2013, 11:01
Hey guys. I'm an enthusiast of both pistols but thought I would ask the same question here as I did on the 1911 Forum.

Is Gaston Glock on the same level as John Browning? I understand John Browning's accomplishmets with his designs but I also understand Gaston Glocks with his. Browning's designs have been around for over 100 years but it looks like Gaston's designs may be the design of the future if it already isn't.. I'm not partial to either design because I own and enjoy them both. I'm just wondering if Gaston and Browning are on the same level and why?

Not even close. JMB accomplished what he did without the help of any computer. Same with Bill Ruger. They were genius minds. Gaston was at the right place at the right time with a design that made it much less costly for LE to keep&maintain weapons. From a marketing standpoint I think Gaston Glock has them both beat by a long shot though.

Booker
02-07-2013, 11:07
It's not just a coincidence. John Browning's middle name, that is.

That's right! JMB is a prophet blessed by the Lord! :supergrin:

hoghunter82
02-07-2013, 16:32
I disagree with everyone here. John Browning NEVER was never talented enough to design a pistol that shot a projectile down the barrel while at the same time geometrically eject a casing that will strike you right between the eyes. Gaston has that market cornered.



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Baba Louie
02-07-2013, 16:34
Is Gaston Glock on the same level as John Browning?:whistling:

Trick question... right? :supergrin:

Who all was on Glocks team of designers again? Who all helped JMB in his shop?

I must concur with the naysayers here in regards to your OP query. A very simple... No.

RWBlue
02-07-2013, 16:46
No. John Browning was a firearms master. His designs were radically apart from anything else being done in his day. He came as close to re-inventing firearms as anyone in history has. His lock-breech design is used in virtually every semi-auto pistol to this day, including Glock.


Gaston Glock is a toolmaker who made a fantastic, and utterly reliable tool which shoots bullets. I would say Gaston's most important contribution has been in materials which pistols (now) are made out of, and precision manufacturing.

That about covers it, but.....

Forget about the 1911. Look at the other Browning designs to see why Browning was a master.

countrygun
02-07-2013, 16:56
Perspective is needed.

Somebody mentioned Bill Ruger. Well, despite the fact that his 10/22 design is undoubtedly the most popular .22 in the world, he didn't "invent" much to it. The magazine is from the Mannlicher/Savage 99 he just made it detachable. Now if that was the only gun that had his name on it, would someone compare him to JMB?

silentpoet
02-07-2013, 17:11
And don't forget Bill Ruger's contributions to the field of victim disarmament. Still think he was scum for selling out gun owners and endorsing infringements on our rights.

bac1023
02-07-2013, 17:12
Hey guys. I'm an enthusiast of both pistols but thought I would ask the same question here as I did on the 1911 Forum.

Is Gaston Glock on the same level as John Browning? I understand John Browning's accomplishmets with his designs but I also understand Gaston Glocks with his. Browning's designs have been around for over 100 years but it looks like Gaston's designs may be the design of the future if it already isn't.. I'm not partial to either design because I own and enjoy them both. I'm just wondering if Gaston and Browning are on the same level and why?

I'm going to be blunt...

Quite frankly, I'm astonished somebody could be ignorant enough to even ponder the question. Its just ridiculous.

There, I said it. :upeyes:

grecco
02-07-2013, 17:14
NOT EVEN CLOSE!

(Not personally, not professionally)

Exactly......

countrygun
02-07-2013, 17:26
And don't forget Bill Ruger's contributions to the field of victim disarmament. Still think he was scum for selling out gun owners and endorsing infringements on our rights.

I am truly sorry you caught your wife sleeping with a Ruger factory rep.

LawScholar
02-07-2013, 17:29
And don't forget Bill Ruger's contributions to the field of victim disarmament. Still think he was scum for selling out gun owners and endorsing infringements on our rights.

Bill died over a decade ago and Ruger sells like 5 types of ARs now.

It's probably okay to let the dead be dead now.

michael_b
02-07-2013, 17:36
Hey guys. I'm an enthusiast of both pistols but thought I would ask the same question here as I did on the 1911 Forum.

Is Gaston Glock on the same level as John Browning? I understand John Browning's accomplishmets with his designs but I also understand Gaston Glocks with his. Browning's designs have been around for over 100 years but it looks like Gaston's designs may be the design of the future if it already isn't.. I'm not partial to either design because I own and enjoy them both. I'm just wondering if Gaston and Browning are on the same level and why?

They aren't even close. Browning was a genius.

Rinspeed
02-07-2013, 17:50
Is Gaston Glock on the same level as John Browning?




:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

mongo356
02-07-2013, 17:53
I know this won't be the popular thing to express but.......

Both made fine firearms that are used by military, LE & Civilians around the World.

One uses a lot of small levers, springs and detent balls. The other uses 33 parts.

One you disassemble with a bottle opener, the other a 3/16" punch.

Browning to me is kind of like a nice pocket watch really shiny & pretty gets the job done with a lot of cool gears and Timing.

Glock more like a sun dial still gets the job done, not complex and can double as a door stop for years and still tell time.

Just my opinion.

bac1023
02-07-2013, 18:07
I know this won't be the popular thing to express but.......

Both made fine firearms that are used by military, LE & Civilians around the World.

One uses a lot of small levers, springs and detent balls. The other uses 33 parts.

One you disassemble with a bottle opener, the other a 3/16" punch.

Browning to me is kind of like a nice pocket watch really shiny & pretty gets the job done with a lot of cool gears and Timing.

Glock more like a sun dial still gets the job done, not complex and can double as a door stop for years and still tell time.

Just my opinion.

:upeyes:

You guys are really funny...

I know its breaking news to some, but JMB designed more than just the 1911 - a LOT more, in fact.

GG designed one gun. ONE

Even that one gun used featured engineered by JMB.




This thread should have been started on April 1st. :rofl:

Rinspeed
02-07-2013, 18:16
You guys are really funny...





Not exactly the words I was thinking Brian but I don't want to get in trouble. Gaston Glock couldn't carry JMB's jock strap in any area of anything. :upeyes: :upeyes:

CBennett
02-07-2013, 18:27
Not even close

Raven1967
02-07-2013, 18:38
No how no way!

Deaf Smith
02-07-2013, 18:46
Is Gaston Glock on the same level as John Browning?

With all due respect of Hr. Glock.....

NO.

Never in a million years.

Deaf

Bruce M
02-07-2013, 18:54
I disagree with everyone here. John Browning NEVER was never talented enough to design a pistol that shot a projectile down the barrel while at the same time geometrically eject a casing that will strike you right between the eyes. Gaston has that market cornered.



Posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire (http://www.outdoorhub.com/mobile/):rofl::rofl:

K.Kiser
02-07-2013, 19:01
With all due respect to Gaston, I believe John Browning to be unsurpassed by anyone ever in this field...

Go through Browning's achievement and products concieved by his own mind and built by his own hands, and you can find a group of guns to handle any need from small game, to african dangerous, to shooting down enemy aircraft...

I don't belive their is a firearm designer even to this day that doesn't have a John M. Browning portrait tattooed on at least one butt cheek..

Haldor
02-07-2013, 19:03
Nope. Glock has designed basically one pistol. Changing the caliber, barrel or grip length does not make it a new weapon. He did design a good one (or at least whoever he hired did), but that doesn't begin to compare with Brownings contributions to weapons design.

427
02-07-2013, 19:04
Without John Browning, there would be no Glock pistol.

bac1023
02-07-2013, 19:25
Without John Browning, there would be no Glock pistol.

Well said

railfancwb
02-07-2013, 19:37
I disagree with everyone here. John Browning NEVER was never talented enough to design a pistol that shot a projectile down the barrel while at the same time geometrically eject a casing that will strike you right between the eyes. Gaston has that market cornered.



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But didn't some of his lever and pump action rifle designs do just that?


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Ruggles
02-07-2013, 19:49
What has GG done since the G17? Honestly nothing but shorten this our that part. Great design no doubt but it is just that, a single design.

JMB......Taking away the 1911 (which I personally believe was designed by the Almighty himself and not JMB!) JMB still has this bad boy in his corner among many many others.

http://i50.tinypic.com/29av3pj.jpg

This alone rockets him past GG in firearms design. Almost 100 years old and still the king of MGs in todays world. :)

GG may or may not still have his designs still in use 100 years after their design, JMB has several still in use, and not going anywhere soon. :)

countrygun
02-07-2013, 19:57
But didn't some of his lever and pump action rifle designs do just that?


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Note the "At the same time..."

He could never get his semi designs to do it, no matter how hard he tried.

Stock Perfection
02-07-2013, 20:06
Interesting side note on Gaston Glock; It is said that he test fired his G1, G2, G3 etc etc, with his left hand in case of catastrophic failure.
Even a curtain rod maker with a chip on his shoulder should have been able to figure out a remote firing system. But so goes the tale...

ilgunguygt
02-07-2013, 20:06
No. John Browning was a firearms master. His designs were radically apart from anything else being done in his day. He came as close to re-inventing firearms as anyone in history has. His lock-breech design is used in virtually every semi-auto pistol to this day, including Glock.


Gaston Glock is a toolmaker who made a fantastic, and utterly reliable tool which shoots bullets. I would say Gaston's most important contribution has been in materials which pistols (now) are made out of, and precision manufacturing.

Not really. Glock missed making the first plastic firearm by many years. Everyone talks about innovation, but it wasnt really that innovative.

Rinspeed
02-07-2013, 20:18
Interesting side note on Gaston Glock; It is said that he test fired his G1, G2, G3 etc etc, with his left hand in case of catastrophic failure.
Even a curtain rod maker with a chip on his shoulder should have been able to figure out a remote firing system. But so goes the tale...





Don't believe everything you hear on the errornet.

RyanSBHF
02-07-2013, 20:19
:upeyes:

GG designed one gun. ONE



He also designed the .45 GAP. That round really changed the pistol world, didn't it? :rofl:

DeLo
02-07-2013, 20:39
Certainly not. Your fan boy brain just exploded.

bac1023
02-07-2013, 20:40
He also designed the .45 GAP. That round really changed the pistol world, didn't it? :rofl:

Very true ;)

bac1023
02-07-2013, 20:46
Gaston Glock is a toolmaker who made a fantastic, and utterly reliable tool which shoots bullets. I would say Gaston's most important contribution has been in materials which pistols (now) are made out of, and precision manufacturing.

GG did not invent the polymer pistol. HK built the designed the first polymer frame pistol a good decade before.

RyanBDawg
02-07-2013, 20:49
GG did not invent the polymer pistol. HK built the designed the first polymer frame pistol a good decade before.

Yes I know. He did build the first widely popular polymer handgun though.


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G26S239
02-07-2013, 21:10
Certainly not. Your fan boy brain just exploded.
:rofl: Very succinct. :wavey:

bac1023
02-07-2013, 21:17
Yes I know. He did build the first widely popular polymer handgun though.


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Very true, but he shouldn't be mentioned inthe same sentence as JMB.

glocktecher
02-07-2013, 21:27
Like hades!

Tiro Fijo
02-07-2013, 21:28
Very true, but he shouldn't be mentioned inthe same sentence as JMB.


:upeyes:

The Kool Aid flows both ways here I see.

bac1023
02-07-2013, 21:36
:upeyes:

The Kool Aid flows both ways here I see.

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

Did you even read the responses in this thread?

I'm not talking about the 1911. I'm talking about JMB's contribution to the firearms world compared to GG's.

By your idiotic response, are you saying Gaston is comparable? Come on, give me some examples. Back up your words for a change.

LEARN something about the history of firearms and you'll see that Kool-Aid is not required.

countrygun
02-07-2013, 21:43
:upeyes:

The Kool Aid flows both ways here I see.

You have got to be kidding.

Start reading the history of each firearm that Browning designed. get in to the details and the concepts.. If that doesn't educate you it will at least keep you busy for a long time.

While you re at it try to come up with someone who was more prolific and created more successful separate designs.

Ruggles
02-07-2013, 21:47
All I am saying is that if the Death Star had a few M2s in that trench Luke would have been dead within 1 minute.

And you know Yoda was packin a 1911 under that robe. :)

Don't think GG design would ever change the fate of a galaxy far far away.......

G26S239
02-07-2013, 22:02
:upeyes:

The Kool Aid flows both ways here I see.

Nope. John Browning clearly came up with more original concepts in his designs.

Gaston Glock did put together a good reliable firearm using previously developed concepts and technologies.
Was the Glock 17 the
1. First pistol using the Browning short recoil locking system? Nope.
2. First polymer framed pistol? Nope.
3. First high quality striker fired pistol? Nope.
4. First use of ferric nitrocarurizing? Nope.

The Browning short recoil locking system that Glock used on the 17 was John Browning's baby.

What mechanical concepts did Glock come up with that can compete with JMB Tiro?

427
02-07-2013, 22:08
:upeyes:

The Kool Aid flows both ways here I see.
Please explain how the Glock pistol would exist if it didn't use Browning's modified locking system.

Steel Head
02-07-2013, 22:15
:rofl::rofl::rofl:

Ruggles
02-07-2013, 22:18
Nope. John Browning clearly came up with more original concepts in his designs.

Gaston Glock did put together a good reliable firearm using previously developed concepts and technologies.
Was the Glock 17 the
1. First pistol using the Browning short recoil locking system? Nope.
2. First polymer framed pistol? Nope.
3. First high quality striker fired pistol? Nope.
4. First use of ferric nitrocarurizing? Nope.

The Browning short recoil locking system that Glock used on the 17 was John Browning's baby.

What mechanical concepts did Glock come up with that can compete with JMB Tiro?

Discovery Channel kinda of guy huh?

:tongueout:

Am I the only one who had to look that one up?

mongo356
02-07-2013, 22:36
Glock made a (one) design that was very successful. Requires very few parts that can be transferred to other firearms. I guess if anything he did one thing very well and made a fortune.

Browning- (Disclaimer) I am not a gun smith nor do I read every manual that Browning ever produced, but of the guns I have looked at they had several tiny small easy to lose or damage springs and levers inside.

Of the 1911's in particular (I know it's not his only gun design- I guess if he was so great there wouldn't have been a need for 1,600 other Browning designs :upeyes:) how many of those small parts and springs will the gun function without if a breakage occurs? I know for a fact Glock will run without a few small parts.

Which is better? Depends on what angle you are looking from -nice pocket watch or sun dial.

Genius design with several small "must be matched" to the gun parts or 33 can of which most can be taken from other guns dropped in and will work all without the aid of special tools or gunsmiths.

Butt hurt disclaimer- I think both men are very good in their own respect, Browning made some great guns without computer aid or complex machinery, but probably couldn't make a curtain rod or shovel worth having. :supergrin:

Ruggles
02-07-2013, 22:40
"(I know it's not his only gun design- I guess if he was so great there wouldn't have been a need for 1,600 other Browning designs )"

Not sure what that means....can you please explain?

mongo356
02-07-2013, 22:43
"(I know it's not his only gun design- I guess if he was so great there wouldn't have been a need for 1,600 other Browning designs )"

Not sure what that means....can you please explain?

Attempt at sarcasm I know JMB had several designs, however I do not have an exact count- no idea.

countrygun
02-07-2013, 22:49
"(I know it's not his only gun design- I guess if he was so great there wouldn't have been a need for 1,600 other Browning designs )"

Not sure what that means....can you please explain?

What that means is the poster thinks that Glock lever action and single shot rifles, his machine guns both heavy and squad, his semi auto rifles, centrfire and rimfire, and his shotguns are as good as John Browning's

uh, just one problem

mongo356
02-07-2013, 22:53
uh, just one problem

That one problem is that Glock didn't waste his time on a 1-of-a-kind single shot or lever action??:faint:

method
02-07-2013, 22:58
Interesting side note on Gaston Glock; It is said that he test fired his G1, G2, G3 etc etc, with his left hand in case of catastrophic failure.
Even a curtain rod maker with a chip on his shoulder should have been able to figure out a remote firing system. But so goes the tale...

The G17 pistol was so named for being Glock's 17th patent, not because it was the 17th iteration of the pistol design.

countrygun
02-07-2013, 23:00
That one problem is that Glock didn't waste his time on a 1-of-a-kind single shot or lever action??:faint:

Do they let you cross the street by yourself?

Yah that darned Browning he should have been designing polymer pistols in 1880 if he was so good :upeyes:

vikingsoftpaw
02-07-2013, 23:01
If the man really wanted to impress me, he'd invent a Glock Carbine.

mongo356
02-07-2013, 23:04
Do they let you cross the street by yourself?

Yah that darned Browning he should have been designing polymer pistols in 1880 if he was so good :upeyes:

According to some he did......................He was that good. :whistling:

427
02-07-2013, 23:10
Glock made a (one) design that was very successful. Requires very few parts that can be transferred to other firearms. I guess if anything he did one thing very well and made a fortune. Glock took Browning's locking system and designed around it. A Glock pistol, is, at it's core, a Browning design.

Browning- (Disclaimer) I am not a gun smith nor do I read every manual that Browning ever produced, but of the guns I have looked at they had several tiny small easy to lose or damage springs and levers inside. Every pistol has small easy to lose parts - even Glocks.

Of the 1911's in particular (I know it's not his only gun design- I guess if he was so great there wouldn't have been a need for 1,600 other Browning designs :upeyes:) So, M2 Heavy MGs for example, aren't needed, right? Even though it's a 1918 design that's still being used, that's saying something, right?

how many of those small parts and springs will the gun function without if a breakage occurs? I know for a fact Glock will run without a few small parts. Which parts?

Which is better? Depends on what angle you are looking from -nice pocket watch or sun dial.:dunno:

Genius design with several small "must be matched" to the gun parts or 33 can of which most can be taken from other guns dropped in and will work all without the aid of special tools or gunsmiths. Glocks are variation of a Browning locking system refined to fewer parts.

You do know that Military 1911's/Hi Powers used parts from a parts bin that weren't matched, right? You know that they were just put together, function tested and then issued, right?

Butt hurt disclaimer- I think both men are very good in their own respect, Browning made some great guns without computer aid or complex machinery, but probably couldn't make a curtain rod or shovel worth having. :supergrin::dunno:

Stock Perfection
02-07-2013, 23:15
The G17 pistol was so named for being Glock's 17th patent, not because it was the 17th iteration of the pistol design.

You are correct sir.

mongo356
02-07-2013, 23:17
I see I may have hurt some feelings.

This is really pointless maybe we should agree my kool-aid is just different brand than yours.

Go team JMB, I have now been enlightened.

DAIadvisor
02-07-2013, 23:35
....I would say Gaston's most important contribution has been in materials which pistols (now) are made out of, and precision manufacturing.

Actually Hk was the first to introduce polymer framed guns, NOT Glock. Glock just made it popular.

countrygun
02-07-2013, 23:47
Actually Hk was the first to introduce polymer framed guns, NOT Glock. Glock just made it popular.

And they got the idea from the Remington XP-100 which proved synthetics would work

Grabbrass
02-07-2013, 23:50
Gaston Glock is more accurately analogous to Henry Ford than Browning. He didn't really invent anything, he just refined existing technology into a simpler (and cheaper to produce) form using modern materials.

ilgunguygt
02-07-2013, 23:50
:upeyes:

The Kool Aid flows both ways here I see.
Really? Lets think about this(from a previous post) all of brownings designs:

Cartridges.25 ACP
.32 ACP
.38 ACP
9mm Browning Long
.380 ACP
.45 ACP
.50 BMG

Firearms

U.S. M1895 Colt-Browning machine gun
FN Browning M1899/M1900
Colt Model 1900
Colt Model 1902
Colt Model 1903 Pocket Hammer (.38 ACP)
Colt Model 1903 Pocket Hammerless (.32 ACP)
Colt Model 1905
FN Model 1906 Vest Pocket (.25 ACP)
Remington Model 8 (1906), a long recoil semi-automatic rifle
Colt Model 1908 Vest Pocket (.25 ACP)
Colt Model 1908 Pocket Hammerless (.380 ACP)
FN Model 1910
U.S. M1911 pistol (.45 ACP)
Colt Woodsman pistol
Winchester Model 1885 falling-block single shot rifle
Winchester Model 1886 lever-action repeating rifle
Winchester Model 1887 lever-action repeating shotgun
Winchester Model 1890 slide-action repeating rifle (.22)
Winchester Model 1892 lever-action repeating rifle
Winchester Model 1894 lever-action repeating rifle
Winchester Model 1895 lever-action repeating rifle
Winchester Model 1897 pump-action repeating shotgun
Browning Auto-5 long recoil semi-automatic shotgun
Browning 22 Semi-Auto rifle
U.S. M1917 water-cooled machine gun
U.S. M1919 air-cooled machine gun
U.S. M1918 Browning Automatic Rifle (BAR)
U.S. M2 .50-caliber heavy machine gun of 1921 (the famed "Ma-Deuce" weapon)
Remington Model 8 semi-auto rifle
Remington Model 24 semi-auto rifle (.22) Also produced by Browning Firearms (as the SA-22) and several others
Browning Hi-Power (Grand Puissance or GP), the standard sidearm of many military and police forces
The Browning Superposed over/under shotgun was designed by John Browning in 1922 and entered production in 1931
Ithaca Model 37 pump-action repeating shotgun

If you include guns designed by others, based on Browning's designs, add "all automatic and semi-automatic firearms to the list
__________________________________________________

Now, lets look at GLocks designs:

A pistol(based on a browning design) offered in multiple calibers and lengths. He did, of course, cut a little length of off a cartridge(designed by BROWNING we might add) and call it his own. That cartidge is woefully unpopular though.

Kool aid you say? No, outside of your "world of perfection" we simply call that common sense. Try it sometime.

fnfalman
02-08-2013, 00:17
I see I may have hurt some feelings.

This is really pointless maybe we should agree my kool-aid is just different brand than yours.

Go team JMB, I have now been enlightened.

Browning's guns are dishwasher safe. Can you say the same for your el cheapo foreign plastic guns?:rofl:

fnfalman
02-08-2013, 00:18
Browning actually designed the guns himself.

What guns did Gaston Glock design? Or did he have to hire gun engineers to design the Glock pistols?

fnfalman
02-08-2013, 00:21
That one problem is that Glock didn't waste his time on a 1-of-a-kind single shot or lever action??:faint:

Yeah, he wasted his time on making crappy military shovels and disposable knives.:rofl:

fnfalman
02-08-2013, 00:28
GG did not invent the polymer pistol. HK built the designed the first polymer frame pistol a good decade before.

And before that, Colt, Remington and a host of others have used hardened resins and Bakelites for grip panels. Plastic ain't new when it comes to being used for gun parts.

fnfalman
02-08-2013, 00:30
Let's just take the M1911 design for instance, the shooter can detail strip that pistol without using any special tool at all but just parts from the gun itself.

Can somebody detail strip a Glock without using a punch or any tool at all?

ilgunguygt
02-08-2013, 00:52
Gaston Glock is more accurately analogous to Henry Ford than Browning. He didn't really invent anything, he just refined existing technology into a simpler (and cheaper to produce) form using modern materials.
I could see that analogy a lot better. Ford didnt invent the internal combustion engine, or the car, but he did make an affordable version. It was also available in your choice of colors, as long as it was black.

G26S239
02-08-2013, 01:24
Discovery Channel kinda of guy huh?

:tongueout:

Am I the only one who had to look that one up?
:rofl: You got me there. I did have to look up the right inclusive generic term.

Browning- (Disclaimer) I am not a gun smith nor do I read every manual that Browning ever produced, but of the guns I have looked at they had several tiny small easy to lose or damage springs and levers inside.

Of the 1911's in particular (I know it's not his only gun design- I guess if he was so great there wouldn't have been a need for 1,600 other Browning designs :upeyes:) how many of those small parts and springs will the gun function without if a breakage occurs? I know for a fact Glock will run without a few small parts.
My first G26 with a DHR prefix was part of a 1999 batch of baby Glocks that had faulty recoil spring assemblies. The rear retaining flange on the outer spring broke and caused my G26 to start having failure to return to battery. I replaced it with a Wolff non captive set up and it has run like a top since.

I found a reference that the 19/23/32 from a certain time frame had a slide lock spring that was prone to breakage. My CSD prefix G32 had that particular spring as identified by a skimpy wasp waist. I changed it out with the beefier built newer OEM slide lock spring. With a broken slide lock a Glock will not lock up properly and the upper may be able to fly off the frame.

A broken trigger spring and you have your trigger will not set.

The firing pin portion of my friends G22 striker assembly got metal fatigue and broke off leaving his gun inoperable. That is definitely not the norm but it did happen.

I am sure that I have missed a few things that can go wrong with a Glock. And Glocks do not break often. My own experience is that they are very reliable and I trust them. Your assertion that Glocks run great with missing or broken springs and parts suggests to me that your understanding of mechanical devices is not very good.

One area where Glocks shine is ease of detail stripping and parts replacement. 1911s and Sigs are easy in that regard too.

According to some he did......................He was that good. :whistling:
Nylon was not developed until 1935. JMB died in 1926.

fnfalman
02-08-2013, 02:12
If the Glock was "Perfection" then why was there a recall on the old copper color trigger group? I had to send my First Generation G17 in for that "improvement".

RON in PA
02-08-2013, 04:56
NO!

Browning was a great firearms designer, 1911, BAR, M2, M1917, M1919, Winchester models 1892 and 1894 plus many more.

Glock is a very good business man who hired a committee to design a pistol for the Austrian army trials in 1980. All his pistols are basically variations of the same design.

Bren
02-08-2013, 05:43
That one problem is that Glock didn't waste his time on a 1-of-a-kind single shot or lever action??:faint:

The problem with your comments is that you don't seem to understand the fundamentals of firearm design and function, not to mention history. It's like my wife commenting on 2-stroke vs. 4-stroke engines (the 4 stroke has more small parts to lose and is more complicated, so the 2-stroke must be better).

Bob Hafler
02-08-2013, 06:09
The problem with your comments is that you don't seem to understand the fundamentals of firearm design and function, not to mention history. It's like my wife commenting on 2-stroke vs. 4-stroke engines (the 4 stroke has more small parts to lose and is more complicated, so the 2-stroke must be better).
Agreed.^^^
Could you just imagine what JMB would have come up with if he had todays computer technology and machinery. As far as I'm concerned GG isn''t even on the same level as Eugene Stoner, Mikhail Kalashnikov,Samuel Colt or John Garand much less JMB.

Gaston Glock
02-08-2013, 09:09
Yes, yes I am! :supergrin:

michael_b
02-08-2013, 09:36
And they got the idea from the Remington XP-100 which proved synthetics would work

I thought is was the Remington Nylon 66- that came out in the very late 50's.


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G26S239
02-08-2013, 10:34
Yes, yes I am! :supergrin:

:rofl:

WayneJessie
02-08-2013, 11:11
Browning actually designed the guns himself.

What guns did Gaston Glock design? Or did he have to hire gun engineers to design the Glock pistols?

Mr. Bubits comes to mind. Probably could have took the Glock pistol to the next level were it not for G.G.'s resistance.

Boats
02-08-2013, 11:21
The Henry Ford/Glock parallel has one more stripe.

Ford was a notorious anti-Semite. Glock was a Nazi.

The OP's original comparative question is beyond obtuse and is borderline retarded.

Booker
02-08-2013, 11:24
Browning's guns are dishwasher safe. Can you say the same for your el cheapo foreign plastic guns?:rofl:

That's not fair! My Glock can go in the dishwasher, it's stamped on the inside of the grip well "Dishwasher Safe-Top Rack Only!" :rofl:

Bob Hafler
02-08-2013, 12:09
Yes, yes I am! :supergrin:

Now that is funny.:rofl:

bac1023
02-08-2013, 12:14
This thread is actual quit entertaining.

I'd say Mongo has quite a bit to learn...

countrygun
02-08-2013, 12:34
I thought is was the Remington Nylon 66- that came out in the very late 50's.


Posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire (http://www.outdoorhub.com/mobile/)

I was referring to handguns. ( I see somehow I dropped the "For handguns" when I submitted) I have a '59 nylon. and I think you will also find that Winchester made a shotgun in the 50s that had a fiberglass barrel sleeved with steel.

checkyoursix
02-08-2013, 12:42
To the OP: you are either trolling, or really should read up a bit. In case you won't read, an image might put things into perspective for you.

http://i.imgbox.com/acdy9QeW.jpg

SpringerTGO
02-08-2013, 12:42
I've heard people say that there is no such thing as a stupid question, but the title of this thread might be an exception.

checkyoursix
02-08-2013, 12:55
I've heard people say that there is no such thing as a stupid question, but the title of this thread might be an exception.

I always found that statement condescending. There are stupid questions (in this case in the sense of total lack of due diligence), and this was definitively one.

ilgunguygt
02-08-2013, 13:06
This thread is actual quit entertaining.

I'd say Mongo has quite a bit to learn...
Mongo is either uneducated on the design accomplishments of JMB or he is not smart enough to understand it. The fact that Browning made the things he did with the technology of 100 years or more ago is amazing.

ilgunguygt
02-08-2013, 13:09
To the OP: you are either trolling, or really should read up a bit. In case you won't read, an image might put things into perspective for you.



I've heard people say that there is no such thing as a stupid question, but the title of this thread might be an exception.

I always found that statement condescending. There are stupid questions (in this case in the sense of total lack of due diligence), and this was definitively one.
I dont believe the OP to be a troll or stupid. I believe he was asking this question on a glock forum and 1911 forum to see what the difference in answer would be. If you had the same answer on both that could be quite telling. If you had the answer of glock on the glock board and JMB on the 1911 board that would point a lot more to Kool Aid.

bac1023
02-08-2013, 13:31
Mongo is either uneducated on the design accomplishments of JMB or he is not smart enough to understand it. The fact that Browning made the things he did with the technology of 100 years or more ago is amazing.

Very true

countrygun
02-08-2013, 13:41
I've heard people say that there is no such thing as a stupid question, but the title of this thread might be an exception.

I'm with the other poster on this. That old saying needs to be S***canned. It underestimates the power of human stupidity.

michael_b
02-08-2013, 14:23
I was referring to handguns. ( I see somehow I dropped the "For handguns" when I submitted) I have a '59 nylon. and I think you will also find that Winchester made a shotgun in the 50s that had a fiberglass barrel sleeved with steel.

Ahh got ya. Interesting, I wasn't aware of either of those, thanks Gun!


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Bren
02-08-2013, 14:57
I've heard people say that there is no such thing as a stupid question, but the title of this thread might be an exception.
I like the South Park version:
http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instances/250x250/21881668.jpg

mongo356
02-08-2013, 15:35
Call me whatever names make you feel better inside.:wavey:

bac1023
02-08-2013, 16:45
Call me whatever names make you feel better inside.:wavey:

I just chalk it up to total and utter ignorance, actually.

Some people just can't be taught. Some people are just not worth teaching...

countrygun
02-08-2013, 17:39
Call me whatever names make you feel better inside.:wavey:

Refer to having your ignorance challenged as "Calling you names" if it makes you feel better.:wavey:

bac1023
02-08-2013, 18:10
Yes, yes I am! :supergrin:

:rofl::rofl:

method
02-08-2013, 19:12
Refer to having your ignorance challenged as "Calling you names" if it makes you feel better.:wavey:

At this point it's willful ignorance, which is waaaayyy worse.

One needn't be a card carrying 1911 fanatic to realize, without thinking much, that Glock is nowhere near Browning's level as far as gun design is concerned. I actually prefer a Glock to a 1911, but really now.

Glock invented a pretty good service pistol that's been very popular over the last few decades. Browning provided the groundwork for damn near everything firearms related, save revolvers and bolt action rifles, that's come out in the last 125 years or so. Like someone already said, without Browning, there is no Glock.

bac1023
02-08-2013, 19:27
At this point it's willful ignorance, which is waaaayyy worse.

One needn't be a card carrying 1911 fanatic to realize, without thinking much, that Glock is nowhere near Browning's level as far as gun design is concerned. I actually prefer a Glock to a 1911, but really now.

Glock invented a pretty good service pistol that's been very popular over the last few decades. Browning provided the groundwork for damn near everything firearms related, save revolvers and bolt action rifles, that's come out in the last 125 years or so. Like someone already said, without Browning, there is no Glock.

Very good post

ticshooter
02-08-2013, 19:31
I dont believe the OP to be a troll or stupid. I believe he was asking this question on a glock forum and 1911 forum to see what the difference in answer would be. If you had the same answer on both that could be quite telling. If you had the answer of glock on the glock board and JMB on the 1911 board that would point a lot more to Kool Aid.

You couldn't be more correct!!:thumbsup: I asked the same question on both forums because I thought it would be interesting to see if I would get the same answer... Like someone said, this has been an entertaining post...

mongo356
02-08-2013, 19:52
At this point it's willful ignorance, which is waaaayyy worse.

One needn't be a card carrying 1911 fanatic to realize, without thinking much, that Glock is nowhere near Browning's level as far as gun design is concerned. I actually prefer a Glock to a 1911, but really now.

Glock invented a pretty good service pistol that's been very popular over the last few decades. Browning provided the groundwork for damn near everything firearms related, save revolvers and bolt action rifles, that's come out in the last 125 years or so. Like someone already said, without Browning, there is no Glock.

I don't see this.

Glock designed a reliable, easy peasy firearm, bubbits or design team aside Glock has his name on the gun. Is Glock the greatest no, but he's probably copied as much as Browning. Is there any company left that's not trying to make a Glock like polymer/striker style gun?

Browning designed the locking system, ok that’s great. So did every bow Fred Bear make, was that a copy from the Native Indians after all they made one first?

China came up with gunpowder, so is every gun that uses gun powder a Chinese copy? Maybe the guy that first used a lead bullet everyone copies that too......

Browning’s designs were good. They were also specialized and somewhat difficult, they kept gun smiths in work for a lot of years. You could possibly rob parts from another gun and maybe it would work, maybe it would take some craftsmanship to fit the part to make it work reliably.

I tried to give Browning his due so some of you folks wouldn't get upset, apparently I gotta drink the entire Browning salmon juice and nothing else. Can we just agree to disagree?

I think I wrote several posts back that I don't know every Browning design like the back of my hand like some of you, but from some replies apparently you are not that familiar with the Glock design as well.

glock2740
02-08-2013, 19:55
To the OP: you are either trolling, or really should read up a bit. In case you won't read, an image might put things into perspective for you.

http://i.imgbox.com/acdy9QeW.jpg
Great post. Gaston made Agreat gun. JMB made many. :cool:

ilgunguygt
02-08-2013, 19:58
I don't see this.

Glock designed a reliable, easy peasy firearm, bubbits or design team aside Glock has his name on the gun. Is Glock the greatest no, but he's probably copied as much as Browning. Is there any company left that's not trying to make a Glock like polymer/striker style gun?

Browning designed the locking system, ok that’s great. So did every bow Fred Bear make, was that a copy from the Native Indians after all they made one first?

China came up with gunpowder, so is every gun that uses gun powder a Chinese copy? Maybe the guy that first used a lead bullet everyone copies that too......

Browning’s designs were good. They were also specialized and somewhat difficult, they kept gun smiths in work for a lot of years. You could possibly rob parts from another gun and maybe it would work, maybe it would take some craftsmanship to fit the part to make it work reliably.

I tried to give Browning his due so some of you folks wouldn't get upset, apparently I gotta drink the entire Browning salmon juice and nothing else. Can we just agree to disagree?

I think I wrote several posts back that I don't know every Browning design like the back of my hand like some of you, but from some replies apparently you are not that familiar with the Glock design as well.
Except glock copied the striker fired/polymer thing. Maybe you vcould tell us what glock did FIRST, before everyone else?You seem to be of the opinion that a 1911 is a super finicky and difficult firearm. In its combat form this couldnt be further from the truth.

fnfalman
02-08-2013, 20:17
Gaston Glock didn't design squat. The dude that designed his gun went to design the Caracal. Gaston Glock may ow Glock, Inc. which is responsible for the pistol but he isn't a gun designer.


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countrygun
02-08-2013, 20:18
At this point it's willful ignorance, which is waaaayyy worse.

One needn't be a card carrying 1911 fanatic to realize, without thinking much, that Glock is nowhere near Browning's level as far as gun design is concerned. I actually prefer a Glock to a 1911, but really now.

Glock invented a pretty good service pistol that's been very popular over the last few decades. Browning provided the groundwork for damn near everything firearms related, save revolvers and bolt action rifles, that's come out in the last 125 years or so. Like someone already said, without Browning, there is no Glock.

It's as if he is trying to argue that The Chinese space program is better than anything the US did because it is newer and stole US technology


:rofl::rofl:

mongo356
02-08-2013, 20:25
Except glock copied the striker fired/polymer thing.

ORLY?? Copied it close enough to get sued like S&W did?

Maybe you vcould tell us what glock did FIRST, before everyone else?

Captured a large overseas military market, an LE market in the U.S.A. that he still has more than 65% of and seems to hold that position well. All of which made him very wealthy and at the same time really po's most JMB fans. Created ONE firearm that still draws more controversy/ attention than most domestic brands.

You seem to be of the opinion that a 1911 is a super finicky and difficult firearm. In its combat form this couldnt be further from the truth.

I'm sorry did you read 1911 somewhere in my post? But to answer your question I haven’t seen any combat or combat1911's in use, just the custom models that seem to be the rage these days.

Taphius
02-08-2013, 20:35
ORLY?? Copied it close enough to get sued like S&W did?



Captured a large overseas military market, an LE market in the U.S.A. that he still has more than 65% of and seems to hold that position well. All of which made him very wealthy and at the same time really po's most JMB fans. Created ONE firearm that still draws more controversy/ attention than most domestic brands.



I'm sorry did you read 1911 somewhere in my post? But to answer your question I haven’t seen any combat or combat1911's in use, just the custom models that seem to be the rage these days.

The hi power, BAR, and 1911 aren't/weren't weapons used by large LE and military agencies?

Browning invented how weapons functioned. Far different than putting a parts kit together in a plastic frame like glock


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ilgunguygt
02-08-2013, 20:44
ORLY?? Copied it close enough to get sued like S&W did?



Captured a large overseas military market, an LE market in the U.S.A. that he still has more than 65% of and seems to hold that position well. All of which made him very wealthy and at the same time really po's most JMB fans. Created ONE firearm that still draws more controversy/ attention than most domestic brands.



I'm sorry did you read 1911 somewhere in my post? But to answer your question I haven’t seen any combat or combat1911's in use, just the custom models that seem to be the rage these days.

1. what exactly does that have to do with glock being innovative? Just because someone copies your design doesnt mean that you are the extreme innovator. Look at automotive industry lawsuits. Glock has certainly done its fair share of copying, this argument goes nowhere.

2. Glock has a large market share of LE guns because they but the old ones at a generous price, offer cheap accesories, and will sell them cheaper than anyone else. It has nothing to do with being the best on the market, simply the cheapest.

3. You didnt mention 1911s? what about:
They were also specialized and somewhat difficult, they kept gun smiths in work for a lot of years. You could possibly rob parts from another gun and maybe it would work, maybe it would take some craftsmanship to fit the part to make it work reliably.

I guess you were referring to the Ma Duece there, huh?:rofl:

Also, if you cant think of a single combat useage of the m1911a1 than the just proves your absolute ignorance of this topic. Everyone else here is having a hell of a laugh at the expense of your stupidity, and it just gets better every time you post.

m2hmghb
02-08-2013, 20:50
The striker fired pistol design dates to around 1900. As was said polymer had been used in handguns for over a decade before glock came around. It's no comparison.

mongo356
02-08-2013, 20:54
Except glock copied the striker fired/polymer thing. Maybe you vcould tell us what glock did FIRST, before everyone else?You seem to be of the opinion that a 1911 is a super finicky and difficult firearm. In its combat form this couldnt be further from the truth.

1. what exactly does that have to do with glock being innovative? Just because someone copies your design doesnt mean that you are the extreme innovator. Look at automotive industry lawsuits. Glock has certainly done its fair share of copying, this argument goes nowhere.

2. Glock has a large market share of LE guns because they but the old ones at a generous price, offer cheap accesories, and will sell them cheaper than anyone else. It has nothing to do with being the best on the market, simply the cheapest.

3. You didnt mention 1911s? what about:


I guess you were referring to the Ma Duece there, huh?:rofl:

Also, if you cant think of a single combat useage of the m1911a1 than the just proves your absolute ignorance of this topic. Everyone else here is having a hell of a laugh at the expense of your stupidity, and it just gets better every time you post.

Please refer to post #113

JMB is awesome. Have a nice day.

countrygun
02-08-2013, 20:57
Striker fired action from a 1930's Dreyse pistol


http://i1231.photobucket.com/albums/ee518/CountryG/100_0456.jpg

Ruggles
02-08-2013, 22:46
Hard to believe someone is really trying to debate if favor of GG. Talk about an open and shut case.

If JMB and GG were in the prison shower.....well GG would have some soapy hands trying to pick up that bar of Zest if you know what I mean.....

427
02-09-2013, 00:15
Browning’s designs were good. Yes they are/were.

They were also specialized Every firearm is specialized.

and somewhat difficult,Difficult in what way?

they kept gun smiths in work for a lot of years. Which designs kept the 'smiths busy, and why, exactly?

You could possibly rob parts from another gun. The fact is that it can be done,


and maybe it would work, It would work.

maybe it would take some craftsmanship to fit the part to make it work reliably.
Military small arms have meet the toughest tests for reliability in the harshest conditions. They have be soldier proof. Parts have to interchange. Parts have to work from one weapon to the next. In short, military weapons have to work. John Browning designed a lot of military weapons that have served for decades and many wars.

Where do you come up with your ideas about firearms? Are you reading something that's factually wrong? Are you just making things up as you go along? :dunno:

LawScholar
02-09-2013, 01:11
there any company left that's not trying to make a Glock like polymer/striker style gun?



The problem with that contention is that every company copying Glock is also copying JMB, since the entire short recoil locked breech tilt barrel action the Glock uses was a JMB principle.

ilgunguygt
02-09-2013, 01:26
The problem with that contention is that every company copying Glock is also copying JMB, since the entire short recoil locked breech tilt barrel action the Glock uses was a JMB principle.
Shhhh, don't go using common sense on him, that wont work!:supergrin:

bac1023
02-09-2013, 02:29
Where do you come up with your ideas about firearms? Are you reading something that's factually wrong? Are you just making things up as you go along? :dunno:

The guy is clearly a couple cans short of a 6-pack...

Somehow, he seems to think this a 1911 vs Glock debate, which is not the case.

ilgunguygt
02-09-2013, 02:36
The guy is clearly a couple cans short of a 6-pack...

Somehow, he seems to think this a 1911 vs Glock debate, which is not the case.
EXACTLY! The 1911, while many consider the greatest handgun ever, really wasnt JMBs greatest accompishment. His machine guns and his cartridge is still the BEST in use today by military.

Pier23
02-09-2013, 09:36
Now, Gaston Glock:

Henry Ford did not invent the horseless carriage, but he DID invent a way to make the horseless carriage affordable and accessible to most workers.

That is a type of genius not to be dismissed.

G26S239
02-09-2013, 09:48
Henry Ford did not invent the horseless carriage, but he DID invent a way to make the horseless carriage affordable and accessible to most workers.

That is a type of genius not to be dismissed.

Guns were affordable and accessible well before Gaston Glock ever considered getting into the gun business.

hoghunter82
02-09-2013, 11:21
I'll end this right now- George Kellgren is the true father of precision firearms production.


LOL !!!! Wonder how many of you are checking Wikipedia right now?





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Wyoming
02-09-2013, 12:53
Welcome to Glock Talk. You hit a nerve one your third post. Glaston Glock was able to bring several technologies together at the right time.

Glock is running the risk that old gun maker in the past have done such as Colt and Winchester. What have they done new? Colt had the 1911 market for decades and made the same gun the same way. They still don't checker the front strap or put in a decent trigger. You can buy a drop in trigger assembly from more than one manufacture. Maybe Colt should just buy them and put them in.

The point is Colt sat on their design while other past them buy. Look what Glock competition is doing. They are out "Glocking" Glock with their new pistols.

Many people have asked for a single stack Glock. Notice how many other pistols are offered in single stack? Now if Glock brings one out they lost those sales.

The world is full of one hit wonders, Debbie Boone and for younger GT'er the Magaraina*. If Glock doesn't get off their duff they will be a one hit gun maker.

As for John M Browning, he did more to preserve freedom for this country with his gun designs that we should have he birthday off instead of Columbus or MLK day. If I have read it right, he never charged the US government royalties for his patents. He thought it was his duty to his country.


* I have know idea of the correct spelling.

rrrr
02-09-2013, 13:02
Uh...NO.

Batesmotel
02-09-2013, 13:26
If I have read it right, he never charged the US government royalties for his patents. He thought it was his duty to his country.

He did charge them but it was an incredibly low amount. Not even covering his development costs. His brother Val questioned him about the contract for the BAR and John's defense was that if they were a few years younger it would be "them over there in the mud". Speaking of WWI.

It was more important to get the weapons to the troops than make a profit. He made his money on sporting arms and licensing military patents to our allies.

If you are ever in Ogden, Utah go to the Browning Museum.

G26S239
02-09-2013, 13:43
Wyoming I may be wrong but I believe it was John C. Garand who never charged the US Govt for the use of his patents.

willieH
02-09-2013, 16:20
In 1980 the Austrian Military decides to upgrade their aging Walther P38 and specified 17 criteria for a replacement pistol. Gaston Glock had extensive experience with polymers but little in firearm design or manufacturing. But in three months he managed to design and produce a G17 prototype that later became the 1982 Austrian military/police service pistol and radically change the handgun industry.

In my book, Mr. Glock is one freaking smart fellow.

Is he in the prolific design class of John Browning, obviously not.

I think only a genius can distinguish between transcendent intellectual aptitudes from just ordinary focused intelligence, so I'll respectfully refrain from making a "genius" designation and defer that honor to others.

ilgunguygt
02-09-2013, 17:23
In 1980 the Austrian Military decides to upgrade their aging Walther P38 and specified 17 criteria for a replacement pistol. Gaston Glock had extensive experience with polymers but little in firearm design or manufacturing. But in three months he managed to design and produce a G17 prototype that later became the 1982 Austrian military/police service pistol and radically change the handgun industry.

In my book, Mr. Glock is one freaking smart fellow.

Is he in the prolific design class of John Browning, obviously not.

I think only a genius can distinguish between transcendent intellectual aptitudes from just ordinary focused intelligence, so I'll respectfully refrain from making a "genius" designation and defer that honor to others.
And the bolded part answers the question

Paul7
02-09-2013, 18:14
What next, a thread on whether Superman can beat up Batman?

Ruggles
02-09-2013, 18:52
What next, a thread on whether Superman can beat up Batman?

Superman gave Batman some Kryptonite as he trusted him fully and wanted to make sure that if he ever went crazy someone on Earth could stop him. So yeah Batman could indeed beat up Superman if he used the supplied Kryptonite :supergrin:

Otherwise Batman is getting smashed to a degree. Of course Batman did take down the Hulk that one time. :wavey:

willieH
02-09-2013, 19:36
And the bolded part answers the question

Was this even a fair comparison?

I was just making the point that Mr. Glock and his team were restricted by the criteria set by the Austrian military. Working within these parameters he produced a remarkable piece of machinery; especially since this was his first pistol. Beginners luck or what?:wow:

R*E
02-09-2013, 19:37
I view Glock much like Apple. Took a lot of ideas from other items and combined them into a good product. Except Apple has more mark up.

They both pretty much sit on the design that made them successful and are failing to innovate further.

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Puh-leeze. Glock is a one trick pony.

tbc
02-09-2013, 20:43
Beginners luck and a very smart man.

If he was a true designer, the internal design of a glock would have evolved. Designers will never satisfy with one design.

Gaston and JMB are not in the same classification.


Sent from iPhone

Grabbrass
02-09-2013, 22:12
Beginners luck and a very smart man.



And a good name for the product. "Glock" sounds aggressive, rhymes with something naughty, etc. Great for marketing. If Gaston's last name were Ferschiggity, well ... I don't know about the rest of you, but I probably wouldn't have spent the last 12 years of my life making occasional visits to FerschiggityTalk.com.

I guess if his name really was Ferschiggity he'd have used something else for the name of his company, but still ... as names go, Glock is a blessing.

skeeter1959
02-09-2013, 23:00
Not no, but hell no.

caraker0341
02-10-2013, 00:01
Yes. Glock intoduced a new thought process to the mainstream and made it work out of the box....unlike many 1911's.

fnfalman
02-10-2013, 00:26
Yes. Glock intoduced a new thought process to the mainstream and made it work out of the box....unlike many 1911's.

How many wars had the Glocks been deployed to by a major military force?

RyanBDawg
02-10-2013, 00:29
How many wars had the Glocks been deployed to by a major military force?

Probably every one of them since the 1980s, to one degree or another.


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fnfalman
02-10-2013, 00:31
Probably every one of them since the 1980s, to one degree or another.


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By which major military force? The British Army just barely issued them right now.

RyanBDawg
02-10-2013, 00:38
By which major military force? The British Army just barely issued them right now.

Israel, Brazil, France, Bangladesh, Denmark, Georgia, India, Iraq (post invasion), Latvia, Lithuania, Luxembourg, Malaysia, Mexico, the Netherlands, Norway, Portugal, Romania, Sweden, Switzerland, Venezuela, Yemen...


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countrygun
02-10-2013, 01:24
Yes. Glock intoduced a new thought process to the mainstream and made it work out of the box....unlike many 1911's.


Here is another attempt to make it about the Glock VS the 1911 :upeyes: Is comprehension a lost art?

The 1911 as manufactured according to Browning's design and issued had a very good reliability record in the US military Until the started wearing out as the Glock will as well.

and by the way, how is GG's .50 cal machinegun going? His .30 cal or his levergun designs, or his shotguns?

If you can only see in one dimension stay out of three-dimensional discussions.

caraker0341
02-10-2013, 01:29
Here is another attempt to make it about the Glock VS the 1911 :upeyes: Is comprehension a lost art?

The 1911 as manufactured according to Browning's design and issued had a very good reliability record in the US military Until the started wearing out as the Glock will as well.

and by the way, how is GG's .50 cal machinegun going? His .30 cal or his levergun designs, or his shotguns?

If you can only see in one dimension stay out of three-dimensional discussions.


My deeeeeepest apologies. I can't afford a 3D monitor.

RyanBDawg
02-10-2013, 01:37
Here is another attempt to make it about the Glock VS the 1911 :upeyes: Is comprehension a lost art?

The 1911 as manufactured according to Browning's design and issued had a very good reliability record in the US military Until the started wearing out as the Glock will as well.

and by the way, how is GG's .50 cal machinegun going? His .30 cal or his levergun designs, or his shotguns?

If you can only see in one dimension stay out of three-dimensional discussions.

Yes the whole glock vs 1911 debate is useless. Two guns whose design was over 6 decades apart.

I would note that John Browning himself stated that his greatest pistol design was the Hi-Power, not the 1911 though.


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TxGun
02-10-2013, 01:46
If you look at the totality and longevity of Browning's firearms designs, there is really nobody who is on his level. And it's not even close. Those who are arguing this point apparently have no idea how many successful firearms...military and commercial...pistols, rifles, shotguns, machine guns, etc. ...that JB is actually responsible for. Sure, there have been other great designers who have produced a great design, or two, or three ("improvements" on someone else's original design really shouldn't be counted)...but there is no one, repeat no one, who has had as many successful designs and whose designs have remained as viable, even cutting edge, for as long.

countrygun
02-10-2013, 01:48
Yes the whole glock vs 1911 debate is useless. Two guns whose design was over 6 decades apart.

I would note that John Browning himself stated that his greatest pistol design was the Hi-Power, not the 1911 though.


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Indeed, I was just referring to the other poster's mistaken concept.

BYW I didn't think Browning was still alive when Duidonne Sauivie (sp?) finished up the P-35 design?

willieH
02-10-2013, 02:49
delete---double entry

willieH
02-10-2013, 03:02
Here is another attempt to make it about the Glock VS the 1911 :upeyes: Is comprehension a lost art?

The 1911 as manufactured according to Browning's design and issued had a very good reliability record in the US military Until the started wearing out as the Glock will as well.

and by the way, how is GG's .50 cal machinegun going? His .30 cal or his levergun designs, or his shotguns?

If you can only see in one dimension stay out of three-dimensional discussions.

My deeeeeepest apologies. I can't afford a 3D monitor.

Now that's funny:supergrin:

RyanBDawg
02-10-2013, 03:21
Indeed, I was just referring to the other poster's mistaken concept.

BYW I didn't think Browning was still alive when Duidonne Sauivie (sp?) finished up the P-35 design?

No he wasn't.

Dieudonné Saive incorporated some patents that had expired after Brownings death into the Hi-Power, like the lock breach design from the 1911, etc..

Browning's original design for the Hi-Power was straight blowback I think.

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fnfalman
02-10-2013, 03:23
Israel, Brazil, France, Bangladesh, Denmark, Georgia, India, Iraq (post invasion), Latvia, Lithuania, Luxembourg, Malaysia, Mexico, the Netherlands, Norway, Portugal, Romania, Sweden, Switzerland, Venezuela, Yemen...


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Like I said, no major military force.

RyanBDawg
02-10-2013, 03:26
Like I said, no major military force.

Yea, it's not like Israel has been involved in any heavy engagements in the last 30 years or anything.

And why is the Glock's prevalence or absence in major conflicts in any way shape or form an issue?

I can tell you right now Id rather have a Glock 17 than a Beretta 92 if I was in a conflict.



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fnfalman
02-10-2013, 03:49
Yea, it's not like Israel has been involved in any heavy engagements in the last 30 years or anything.

Yeah, when the last time Israel fought a real war, what handguns were they using?
I can tell you right now Id rather have a Glock 17 than a Beretta 92 if I was in a conflict.



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Uncle Sam thinks otherwise. So do I. The M9 and its civilian equivalence had been through some serious craps. Can't say the same about the Glock.

RyanBDawg
02-10-2013, 03:56
Yeah, when the last time Israel fought a real war, what handguns were they using?


Uncle Sam thinks otherwise. So do I. The M9 and its civilian equivalence had been through some serious craps. Can't say the same about the Glock.

Israel has been fighting a war since the 1940s.

That's because Uncle Sam probably used some old school military hard-asses who refused to even consider a "plastic" gun when they were replacing the 1911 in the 1980s.

Why would I choose a gun that has almost 2x the individual parts, is heavier, and holds (standard) less ammo? Furthermore, how many times does the average soldier even pull their sidearm in modern conflict? I'd venture to say never.

BTW, I have the 92, don't get me wrong it's a good gun, but there is no real advantage over it compared to a Glock, especially in a conflict zone like the Middle East where sand can more easily foul the open action of the Beretta when compared to the Glock (it's happened enough to warrant an investigation by the Army).

And like you said, the Brits have adopted it, replacing their decades old Hi-Powers..






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fnfalman
02-10-2013, 04:33
Israel has been fighting a war since the 1940s.

The last time Israel fought in a major conflict was when? They got pissant border incursions now and then but when was the last time they fought against a standing military? Could it be the Yom Kippur War?

That's because Uncle Sam probably used some old school military hard-asses who refused to even consider a "plastic" gun when they were replacing the 1911 in the 1980s.

Plastic has nothing to do with it. The Beretta's grip panels are made out of plastic. As were the grip panels on the SIG Sauer P226 and HK P7, and Ruger P85, and SW pistols for the XM9 trials (first and second trials).

Uncle Sam specified a hammer fired system for positive ignition, which the Glock didn't and still doesn't have. BTW, how many times have Glock had to revise their striker firing system already? Not too Glock Perfection, eh?

Do you even remember why Glock had to revise their copper color firing mechanism to the black one in the early 1990s? Here's a hint: the spring couldn't handle the striker stay cocked for too long.

Why would I choose a gun that has almost 2x the individual parts, is heavier, and holds (standard) less ammo? Furthermore, how many times does the average soldier even pull their sidearm in modern conflict? I'd venture to say never.

Reliability. After all, it only passed the US Army XM9 trial twice while defeating all newcomers.

BTW, I have the 92, don't get me wrong it's a good gun, but there is no real advantage over it compared to a Glock, especially in a conflict zone like the Middle East where sand can more easily foul the open action of the Beretta when compared to the Glock (it's happened enough to warrant an investigation by the Army).

The same sand that supposedly jammed up the M1911A1 too? The same M1911A1 that accompanied GIs through Northern Africa and the Middle-East in WWII? :rofl:

And like you said, the Brits have adopted it, replacing their decades old Hi-Powers..

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Yeah, barely. If it were so good then how come the Brits didn't adopt it way, way back? It's not like the British Army didn't know about the existence of the Glock pistol...it's only been around 30-years.

Bren
02-10-2013, 06:07
Yes. Glock intoduced a new thought process to the mainstream and made it work out of the box....unlike many 1911's.

No, Glock did not introduce "a new thought process". Everything in a Glock is based on preexisting designs.

Bren
02-10-2013, 06:13
Israel, Brazil, France, Bangladesh, Denmark, Georgia, India, Iraq (post invasion), Latvia, Lithuania, Luxembourg, Malaysia, Mexico, the Netherlands, Norway, Portugal, Romania, Sweden, Switzerland, Venezuela, Yemen...


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I have served, in a war, in a mixed group that included people from the French army - commandos, Chasseurs Alpins, etc., Romanian reconnaissance (their special forces) and in the combat zone regularly encountered Georgians (at the camp across the street) and occasonally troops from Denmark and Sweden.

Never saw a single Glock among them. I specifically talked pistols with one of the Romanian NCO's who showed me his CZ 9mm. The only Glocks I saw in Afghanistan were on contractors and U.S. law enforcement.

Bruce M
02-10-2013, 07:26
Like I said, no major military force.
Luxembourg is not a major military force??

Taphius
02-10-2013, 09:20
Puh-leeze. Glock is a one trick pony.

So is apple for the most part. Their successful items are based off the ipod and how it integrated with itunes

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HD45ACP
02-10-2013, 09:50
Glock ftw

Pier23
02-10-2013, 10:07
Puh-leeze. Glock is a one trick pony.

Which is the brilliance of Glocks...now , I am Glock neutral...have them but they don't excite me. i carry them but don't necessarily enjoy them.

Fire one Glock and you have fired them all. You move from model to model with very little effort. The single stack Glock makes sense ONLY if the slide is slimmed down, and I don't see that happening. Glocks are not concealment pistols, they are duty sidearm pistols.

Ruger Nano has taken the Glock modular approach a step further by allowing you to pull out the chassis and put all the go-bang parts into another frame. Be interesting to see if this is a reasonable sales differentiator or if any true benefit is found in this.

Bob Hafler
02-10-2013, 10:08
Again we seem to be going off course again and making this post a 1911 vs Glock. The topic is GG on the same level as JMB. The answer is hell NO and it will always be hell NO. GG couldn't shine JMB's shoes. Hell he's not even on the same level as Bill Ruger. I'll agree GG built a very nice pistol but lets not get carried away by thinking he's anywhere near on the same level as many who came before him. As mentioned in and earlier post Glock as of late is being out glocked by many of it's compeditors designs and features. This is something JMB never worried about as when he finished one gun he was on to another and many times I'm sure he worked on more than one guns design at a time. JMB designes were more for country then it was for profit. This alone will always set him apart and on a different level from the others.

gunsmoke92
02-10-2013, 10:14
Is Gaston Glock on the same level as John Browning?

That will require some thought.......Nope! JMB was an inventor, a designer, and an innovator. Gaston is a developer who took what others invented (tilting barrel, polymer frame, ect) and adapted them to work together in the form of the Glock pistol. In all truth, he didn't actually design the Glock, as that task was left to his employees. He merely paid for someone else to develop it and put his name on it as intellectual property of the company. Gaston did pretty well, business wise, but will never be on the same level as John M. Browning.

chrisbroz
02-10-2013, 13:10
NO!!! Browning invented/developed MANY different firearms & types of actions, Glock's claim to fame is the simple safe-action action & polymer frame...Herr Glock's pistol uses Browning's locked breech system as do the majority of semi auto pistols in calibers larger than 9mm Kurz or .380. When Herr G's patents on firearms comes close to the number of patents that John M Browning either held or SOLD, I MIGHT concede your point...but not until then!!!

CB in FL...I'm not in any way denigrating Herr Glock, BTW - I LOVE his pistols, but of the two, Browning was the more prolific.

jakebrake
02-10-2013, 13:25
not even close.

bac1023
02-10-2013, 13:29
Yes. Glock intoduced a new thought process to the mainstream and made it work out of the box....unlike many 1911's.

How unbelievably stupid is this post? What are you trying to imply with "yes"? Are you saying Gaston is at the same level? Are you talking a Glock versus 1911 or GG versus JMB?

Since you turned it into a 1911 versus Glock debate, I'll try to make a real simple point so that you may be able to understand it...

Glocks are built by one company. 1911s are built by dozens of companies, each with different levels of quality and quality control. Glock can barely get it right sometimes even being the sole builder.

Too many posters in this thread are either too ignorant or just too stupid to know that the question is ridiculous.

jakebrake
02-10-2013, 13:34
Glocks are built by one company. 1911s are built by dozens of companies, each with different levels of quality and quality control. Glock can barely get it right sometimes even being the sole builder.



:rofl::rofl::rofl: you owe me a keyboard:rofl::rofl::rofl:

Batesmotel
02-10-2013, 13:53
Just proof you should stay clear of those who worship at the high alter of the cult of St. Glock.

brisk21
02-10-2013, 13:53
Gaston has made one gun design. He had help from the guy who designed Steyr pistols. He also used Brownings tilting barrel design. Browning designed dozens and dozens of excellent pistols, rifles, and shotguns by himself. That pretty much says it all.

Glock_Convert
02-10-2013, 14:01
Gaston has made one gun design. He had help from the guy who designed Steyr pistols. He also used Brownings tilting barrel design. Browning designed dozens and dozens of excellent pistols, rifles, and shotguns by himself. That pretty much says it all.

This. Glock so far is a one trick pony. It is an excellent trick, but doesn't hold a candle to Browning's prolific genius.

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Wyoming
02-10-2013, 14:05
Wyoming I may be wrong but I believe it was John C. Garand who never charged the US Govt for the use of his patents.

He didn't. He was an employee at Springfield Armory.

I do remember reading a news paper article that the US Government paid him $100,000 for the M1. If I remember this was when I still lived in Ohio so pre 1980. I can't remember all the details but I think he sued and this was his settlement.

Maybe some other GTer can update us

countrygun
02-10-2013, 14:11
Which is the brilliance of Glocks...now , I am Glock neutral...have them but they don't excite me. i carry them but don't necessarily enjoy them.

Fire one Glock and you have fired them all. You move from model to model with very little effort. The single stack Glock makes sense ONLY if the slide is slimmed down, and I don't see that happening. Glocks are not concealment pistols, they are duty sidearm pistols.

.

You could say the same thing about High-Point, but at least they manage to make a carbine

joecoastie
02-10-2013, 15:00
You could say the same thing about High-Point, but at least they manage to make a carbine
:rofl:

hoghunter82
02-10-2013, 15:08
A lot of emotion around the topic it seems. I'd be willing to bet that if we all stated our ages that there would be more under 30 folks praising GG than JB. Not saying everyone by rule, but for those who grew up on striker fired safe action pistols there tends to be no relation to history. Just like when I'm playing my 80s music and my kids look at me like I'm from another planet. They don't appreciate or recognize the music I grew up on. Just as when my parents played that Elvis or 50s crap that i don't appreciate (sorry Elvis fans, Kentucky Rain is the only Elvis song i wont immediately turn off). So to many in the firearms world a hammer fired operating system seems antiquated. I know I felt that way until I discovered HK and CZ.



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TxGun
02-10-2013, 15:24
Gaston Glock is obviously a very smart businessman. Brilliant may not be too strong a word. But he really didn't design anything completely new. He improved, with help, on some previous ideas and marketed those improvements with absolutely amazing success.

But John Browning was, without question, a brilliant firearms designer, head and shoulders above even the other great ones...Colt, Wesson, Garand, Williams, Savage, Thompson, etc., etc. ...most of whom had one or two enduring designs. Browning had so many it's not easy to catalog them all. Gaston Glock is not in the same league as the rest of these men as a designer. He may be a better businessman than most of them, or even all of them. But he's not even in the same conversation as a designer/inventor.

dosei
02-10-2013, 16:25
Hey guys. I'm an enthusiast of both pistols but thought I would ask the same question here as I did on the 1911 Forum.

Is Gaston Glock on the same level as John Browning? I understand John Browning's accomplishmets with his designs but I also understand Gaston Glocks with his. Browning's designs have been around for over 100 years but it looks like Gaston's designs may be the design of the future if it already isn't.. I'm not partial to either design because I own and enjoy them both. I'm just wondering if you think Gaston and Browning are on the same level and why?

The is only ONE feature of the Glock that was a new design innovation at the time...ONE. (Do you even know what it is/was?) Everything else of the design was nothing more than taking other proven design innovations (from firearms designers like JMB).

No, Gaston Glock is not and never ever will be even remotely close to the same level as John Browning.

countrygun
02-10-2013, 16:40
The is only ONE feature of the Glock that was a new design innovation at the time...ONE. (Do you even know what it is/was?) Everything else of the design was nothing more than taking other proven design innovations (from firearms designers like JMB).

No, Gaston Glock is not and never ever will be even remotely close to the same level as John Browning.

If you are referring to the safety on the trigger (brake pedal on the accelerator) I would swear that somewhere in the distant past I saw a much older antiquated design that had that feature, but for the life of me I can't remember what it was.

caraker0341
02-10-2013, 16:59
Man I love these threads. One little statement and off we go:)

JMB is as good as GG.

bac1023
02-10-2013, 17:14
Man I love these threads. One little statement and off we go:)

JMB is as good as GG.

GG is a joke in comparison. When you grow up, you'll figure that out.

Maybe...

jakebrake
02-10-2013, 17:19
ok, John Moses Browning made a product that didn't exist. he had no pattern to work off of. he, hiram maxim, mikhail kalashnikov, eugene stoner, etc. they made a radically different product that turned the firearms world on it's ear.

Granted, John Moses made a lot more of them

Gaston Glock really didn't do anything all that radical. He went off of existing designs and products. he marketed well. that's about it.

RyanBDawg
02-10-2013, 17:29
GG is a joke in comparison. When you grow up, you'll figure that out.

Maybe...

I think he made that statement to elicit a response just like that.


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Waboom!!
02-10-2013, 19:04
Hey guys. I'm an enthusiast of both pistols but thought I would ask the same question here as I did on the 1911 Forum.

Is Gaston Glock on the same level as John Browning?
not in the slightest.

brisk21
02-10-2013, 19:25
GG is a joke in comparison. When you grow up, you'll figure that out.

Maybe...


I wouldn't say a joke. He designed one of the most popular, most copied pistols ever. "Glock" has become lamens term for handgun. There is Glock and everything else that is compared to it.

jakebrake
02-10-2013, 19:31
most copied pistols ever.

ummmm.....i'd love to see evidence proving this statement

"Glock" has become lamens term for handgun. There is Glock and everything else that is compared to it.

again, kindly prove this statement.

i added what's in italics.

Bruce M
02-10-2013, 19:38
You could say the same thing about High-Point, but at least they manage to make a carbine
:rofl::rofl:
Man I love these threads. One little statement and off we go:)

JMB is as good as GG.
I agree. Probably not epic but definitely good entertainment.

Bob Hafler
02-10-2013, 19:42
Very interesting but stupid

Wolfgang and friend: "Very interesting ... but stupid" - YouTube#!:rofl:

bac1023
02-10-2013, 21:48
I wouldn't say a joke. He designed one of the most popular, most copied pistols ever. "Glock" has become lamens term for handgun. There is Glock and everything else that is compared to it.

He had help with the design for starters.

I totally disagree with the last sentence.

WarEagle32
02-10-2013, 21:51
GG shouldn't be in the same sentence with JMB. He took some prominent Austrian military brass' ideas, and made them into a great pistol. JMB is the greatest gun designer that has ever, or will ever live. There will never be another JMB because he was the right man, during the right time. Gaston did a great job with others' ideas, but JMB he will never even come close to. I do wish that Gaston in his life would have made many more types of Glock firearms. Like nearly every other manufacturer has done. He just made a great pistol. I wish he would have made at least more versatile pistols, carbines, and rifles to say the least. I think when he finally kicks the bucket if he doesn't live to be 120 like he claims he will, when someone else buys the company they will make a lot more types of guns under the Glock name. I wished Gaston would have especially put his mind more than anything on some type of Glock 5.56 military type carbine. A 1911 Glock would also be very sweet and along with a Glock carbine very lucrative, and perhaps a a carbine that is a game changer. I know he makes 250k a day, but just for himself, my goodness, how awesome would a 5.56 Glock carbine be. Us Glock lovers can only dream of that have ever happening, because that is as close as we will ever get!!

caraker0341
02-10-2013, 23:12
Honestly, when was the last time you saw a 1911 that was aesthetically on par with a glock?

countrygun
02-10-2013, 23:19
Honestly, when was the last time you saw a 1911 that was aesthetically on par with a glock?

You can type good with your tongue in your cheek.

:rofl:

caraker0341
02-10-2013, 23:21
You can type good with your tongue in your cheek.

:rofl:

Thanks:) It's a gift.

bac1023
02-11-2013, 07:13
Honestly, when was the last time you saw a 1911 that was aesthetically on par with a glock?

:animlol:

Yeah, all jokes aside, this thread has been entertaining. :supergrin:

Sorry to anyone I may have offended. :wavey:

SC Tiger
02-11-2013, 07:27
As others have said, no.

Glock makes a good firearm but it is not nearly as revolutionary as Browning's work. Even the 1911 by itself was more revolutionary than the Glock, and I don't worship at the church of 1911 like some do. I like the design and plan to purchase one in the future (sold a previous one because it would never run right).

Glock gets credit for the Glock handgun - it is a good combat weapon and he built the company that designed it, as well as marketed it and made it a success. But Browning's accomplishments far outweight Glock's.

bac1023
02-11-2013, 08:53
As others have said, no.

Glock makes a good firearm but it is not nearly as revolutionary as Browning's work. Even the 1911 by itself was more revolutionary than the Glock, and I don't worship at the church of 1911 like some do. I like the design and plan to purchase one in the future (sold a previous one because it would never run right).

Glock gets credit for the Glock handgun - it is a good combat weapon and he built the company that designed it, as well as marketed it and made it a success. But Browning's accomplishments far outweight Glock's.

I give Glock all the credit in the world for being a great business man.

brisk21
02-11-2013, 09:26
He had help with the design for starters.

I totally disagree with the last sentence.

I did mention that he had help in my other post. What I meant about the compairson is that every time a new gun is put on the market, it is compared to a Glock. How good a gun is, ususally is measured by how it compares to a Glock.

SpringerTGO
02-11-2013, 09:46
I did mention that he had help in my other post. What I meant about the compairson is that every time a new gun is put on the market, it is compared to a Glock. How good a gun is, ususally is measured by how it compares to a Glock.

I like my Glock, but when I buy a new handgun I don't compare it to the Glock. I think the only thing my 26 has going for it is outstanding reliability. Trigger, thickness, and accuracy aren't anything special.
There are plenty of reliable and accurate handguns on the market today.

SC Tiger
02-11-2013, 10:06
Bill died over a decade ago and Ruger sells like 5 types of ARs now.

It's probably okay to let the dead be dead now.

IMO Ruger did what he did to try to stave off a complete ban. Smith bought in as well.

You have to remember - Ruger and Smith and Wesson are both businesses and one piece of legislation could completely shut them down. Thinking of it from that point of view will change your perspective.

SC Tiger
02-11-2013, 10:27
He had help with the design for starters.

I totally disagree with the last sentence.

In fairness, so did JMB. In fact, one of his assistants finished the High-Power.

I don't know that Browning and Glock should even be compared though. One was a weapons designer, and the other is the owner of a weapon manufacturing company.

"Browning" branded weapons are made by FN.

bac1023
02-11-2013, 11:16
I did mention that he had help in my other post. What I meant about the compairson is that every time a new gun is put on the market, it is compared to a Glock. How good a gun is, ususally is measured by how it compares to a Glock.

I would agree that new polymer service pistols are certainly compared to Glock.

MajorD
02-11-2013, 11:36
they are not even in the same league! JMB started from scratch with few autoloading designs in existence at his time with no CAD CAM or any thing nothing but a brain and a pencil and some paper. He developed esigns 100 plus years ago that are still running today.
All glock did was get a bunch of engineers together who borrowed the best features of a number of designs and created the glock. the glock uses browning locking design- glock borrowed it,browning designed it from the ground up figuring out through trial and error how much delay in unlocking ,amount of locking surface etc. was needed.
gaston glock is a savy businessman,marketer and that is it. As far as the gun design he was nothing more than a project manager coordinator.

bac1023
02-11-2013, 12:01
In fairness, so did JMB. In fact, one of his assistants finished the High-Power.





Well, the HP was finished long after he died.

tbc
02-11-2013, 12:15
How good a gun is, ususally is measured by how it compares to a Glock.

I do compare new guns to my Glock and also to my HKs, Sigs, M&Ps, FNS, and so on.

The reason some people compare new guns to Glock because that's all they have.





Sent from iPhone

tuica
02-11-2013, 13:26
The question may very well be: "What did John Browning not invent?" Yes, an oversimplification, but in the world of firearms - not too far off. Cheers.

Bob Hafler
02-11-2013, 13:45
[QUOTE=brisk21;19974778How good a gun is, ususally is measured by how it compares to a Glock.[/QUOTE]

Maybe in the poly pistol world it was in the past, not sure you can make that statement today, and make it stick with more than a few people. Some people believe the XD is out Glocking the Glock. I can't say I disagree either, being that Springfield is actually listening to there customers.

caraker0341
02-11-2013, 14:46
It is a proven fact that glocks create more hydrostatic shock and causes bad guys to fly back farther than the 1911 due to the polymer absorbing less energy from the round. Ask Ron Burgundy.

Jason D
02-11-2013, 17:33
My 1911's scoff at the idea of even being put in the same safe as my Glock pistols.
They like the black rifles though, so go figure.

maxmanta
02-11-2013, 17:52
Hey guys. I'm an enthusiast of both pistols but thought I would ask the same question here as I did on the 1911 Forum.

Is Gaston Glock on the same level as John Browning? I understand John Browning's accomplishmets with his designs but I also understand Gaston Glocks with his. Browning's designs have been around for over 100 years but it looks like Gaston's designs may be the design of the future if it already isn't.. I'm not partial to either design because I own and enjoy them both. I'm just wondering if you think Gaston and Browning are on the same level and why?

Hell no!

There was never anything really new about the Glock design--a lockup designed by JMB and a striker fired ignition system that had been used a bunch of times since 1900. Glock's success was due to superb marketing.

On the other hand, JMB created his designs from scratch, and they are still in widespread use today.

maxmanta
02-11-2013, 17:55
If you are referring to the safety on the trigger (brake pedal on the accelerator) I would swear that somewhere in the distant past I saw a much older antiquated design that had that feature, but for the life of me I can't remember what it was.

What is that little lever supposed to prevent, anyway?

maxmanta
02-11-2013, 17:58
Let's just take the M1911 design for instance, the shooter can detail strip that pistol without using any special tool at all but just parts from the gun itself.

Can somebody detail strip a Glock without using a punch or any tool at all?

I need a punch (or similar tool) to get the FP out, but otherwise I agree.

NEOH212
02-11-2013, 18:31
Gaston is a innovative business man but in no way could ever compare to JMB.

countrygun
02-11-2013, 18:48
I need a punch (or similar tool) to get the FP out, but otherwise I agree.

On the 1911 ???

Use the mainspring housing pin.

BTW you do know, on the original, you are supposed to use the toe of a mag on the grip screws and the bent small tip on the leaf spring can be used as a screwdriver on the mag release assembly.

bac1023
02-11-2013, 20:01
BTW you do know, on the original, you are supposed to use the toe of a mag on the grip screws and the bent small tip on the leaf spring can be used as a screwdriver on the mag release assembly.

Very true

It was certainly very innovative. :)

Ruggles
02-11-2013, 20:25
This thread has legs.....

I wonder if Trey Parker is on the same level as Walt Disney?

ddbtoth
02-11-2013, 21:09
One is a demigod-the other is a humorless Australian business man.

caraker0341
02-11-2013, 21:30
Troll off....

I sincerely wish I had a tenth of the talent these two had. One repeatedly revolutionized the small arms world and the other climbed to the top of said world with a single design. Any real discussion on the supremacy of either is fraught with impossibility and sprinkled with troll bait. I shall just be happy to shoot one of their designs whilst competing against talented shooters using the other.

That said.....

TROLL ON!!!

countrygun
02-11-2013, 21:39
Troll off....

I sincerely wish I had a tenth of the talent these two had. One repeatedly revolutionized the small arms world and the other climbed to the top of said world with a single design. Any real discussion on the supremacy of either is fraught with impossibility and sprinkled with troll bait. I shall just be happy to shoot one of their designs whilst competing against talented shooters using the other.

That said.....

TROLL ON!!!

If Lady Gaga had a hit on the charts right now and the Beatles didn't, would you say that Lady Gaga has contributed as much to the music world as the Beatles?

Rinspeed
02-11-2013, 21:40
I would say it's about time this stupid thread had run it's course. :upeyes:

caraker0341
02-11-2013, 21:48
You watch yer mouth! Lady Gaga is a fashion genius!!

countrygun
02-11-2013, 21:52
You watch yer mouth! Lady Gaga is a fashion genius!!

And here is a personal Glock Salute to Lady Gaga




http://i1231.photobucket.com/albums/ee518/CountryG/glockcrock.png

bac1023
02-11-2013, 21:55
If Lady Gaga had a hit on the charts right now and the Beatles didn't, would you say that Lady Gaga has contributed as much to the music world as the Beatles?

Good point

MrGlock21
02-12-2013, 03:10
That's a silly question. If you need to ask it, you won't udnerstand the answer.



This ^^^^^^ exactly

21tango
02-12-2013, 05:15
Gaston Glock designed a great pistol and inspired a revolution through out the industry. John Browning Developed several weapon systems that may have changed the outcome of World wars 1 and 2 . John was so far ahead of the game that a 100 years latter almost all of his designs are just as relevant today as they were when he designed them. "Not even close" John Browning > Gaston Glock

bac1023
02-12-2013, 06:24
And here is a personal Glock Salute to Lady Gaga




http://i1231.photobucket.com/albums/ee518/CountryG/glockcrock.png

:rofl::rofl:

willieH
02-12-2013, 06:44
... John Browning Developed several weapon systems that may have changed the outcome of World wars 1 and 2 ...

Changed the outcome of WW2?? I didn't know the spirit of John Browning did covert design work for the Manhattan Project. I'm always amazed at the things you read on the internet.

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y66/wlhutch/nuclear-attack_zps72657e18.jpg

Bob Hafler
02-12-2013, 07:12
And here is a personal Glock Salute to Lady Gaga




http://i1231.photobucket.com/albums/ee518/CountryG/glockcrock.png

:rofl::rofl:Just when I thought it was impossible to make a Glock any uglier. :faint:

bac1023
02-12-2013, 07:14
Changed the outcome of WW2?? I didn't know the spirit of John Browning did covert design work for the Manhattan Project. I'm always amazed at the things you read on the internet.

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y66/wlhutch/nuclear-attack_zps72657e18.jpg

That might have been a stretch, but he did say "may have" changed the outcome, due to the great designs.

It surely didn't hurt, I'll say that.

caraker0341
02-12-2013, 09:21
Obviously that is a picture from space of a Glock 20 being fired.

Bren
02-12-2013, 09:30
Changed the outcome of WW2?? I didn't know the spirit of John Browning did covert design work for the Manhattan Project. I'm always amazed at the things you read on the internet.

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y66/wlhutch/nuclear-attack_zps72657e18.jpg

I'm surprised that you know so little about WW II that you post the mushroom cloud and think that supports what you said.

willieH
02-12-2013, 11:05
I'm surprised that you know so little about WW II that you post the mushroom cloud and think that supports what you said.

What I said was in response to 21Tango's simplistic notion that Browning designed weapons may have effected the outcome of WWII. My equally simplistic answer was to exemplify that other factors played a greater role and had profound consequence to shape the outcome of the war. Sorry not to include Allied battle strategies in Europe/North African campaign, the Soviet and Polish contributions and the Western Pacific naval victories and yes the atomic bomb.

But since you've judged my lack of knowledge, I would welcome your rendition of WWII history that supports 21Tango's notion that Browning designed weapons shaped the wars outcome.

countrygun
02-12-2013, 11:15
What I said was in response to 21Tango's simplistic notion that Browning designed weapons may have effected the outcome of WWII. My equally simplistic answer was to exemplify that other factors played a greater role and had profound consequence to shape the outcome of the war. Sorry not to include Allied battle strategies in Europe/North African campaign, the Soviet and Polish contributions and the Western Pacific naval victories and yes the atomic bomb.

But since you've judged my lack of knowledge, I would welcome your rendition of WWII history that supports 21Tango's notion that Browning designed weapons shaped the wars outcome.

Well, you could start out with the fact that nearly every "gun" on every American aircraft, fighter, bomber, etc was a Browning design. As was the "Quad .50 anti-aircraft gun.

The BAR shaped squad tactics, and the use of the .30 Browning can't be overlooked at the infantry level.

Three-Five-Seven
02-12-2013, 11:21
What I said was in response to 21Tango's simplistic notion that Browning designed weapons may have effected the outcome of WWII. My equally simplistic answer was to exemplify that other factors played a greater role and had profound consequence to shape the outcome of the war. Sorry not to include Allied battle strategies in Europe/North African campaign, the Soviet and Polish contributions and the Western Pacific naval victories and yes the atomic bomb.

But since you've judged my lack of knowledge, I would welcome your rendition of WWII history that supports 21Tango's notion that Browning designed weapons shaped the wars outcome.

You really should read Stephen Ambrose's "Citizen Soldiers".

SC Tiger
02-12-2013, 11:26
Here's the thing - the design that most people associate with Browning - the 1911 - may have been one of the least significant weapons he developed from a historical (ie "changing the results of a battle or war") perspective.

Think about how important the rest of them must have been then!

Batesmotel
02-12-2013, 13:53
Changed the outcome of WW2?? I didn't know the spirit of John Browning did covert design work for the Manhattan Project. I'm always amazed at the things you read on the internet.

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y66/wlhutch/nuclear-attack_zps72657e18.jpg

Herman Goring said if he had been able to equip his planes with the Browning 50 cal machine guns, they would have won the battle of Britain.

fnfalman
02-12-2013, 15:59
On the 1911 ???

Use the mainspring housing pin.

BTW you do know, on the original, you are supposed to use the toe of a mag on the grip screws and the bent small tip on the leaf spring can be used as a screwdriver on the mag release assembly.

Yep. For the M1911 and M1911A1, you need nothing to break the gun down in detail other what's supplied with the gun.

jakebrake
02-12-2013, 16:05
Yep. For the M1911 and M1911A1, you need nothing to break the gun down in detail other what's supplied with the gun.

well, opposable thumbs help, but i digress.