Does .40 cause flinching more than other calibers? [Archive] - Glock Talk

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cfr
02-10-2013, 10:03
My Glock 22 was my first semi auto. I couldnt shoot it well for a long time, until I did the Snap Cap drill and realized I was flinching. Was able to overcome it with time.

Then I got more into shooting my PPQ 9MM and a Glock 26. I've always been able to shoot them pretty decent, life was good for about a year.

Then came the current ammo shortage. I found some .40, and naturally gravitated back to my 22. I went out both a few weeks ago and yesterday, and couldnt hit anything. I realized my flinch was now back with a vengance.

I dry fire, shoot a .22 caliber, and use Snaps Caps when needed. So I understand how to move past this issue. My problem here is I've already worked through this issue, then it came back.

So I need to ask: Does the .40 cause more flinching than other calibers? I'm looking to "blame" the caliber simply because I dont see anything else that would have changed. To be clear though, I know that I'm the problem, NOT the caliber.

It should be noted that due to finances and my life style, I can really only go shooting about once every three weeks, and shoot approximately 200 rounds. This isn't about to change anytime soon.

It should also be noted that Ive never conciously minded the "snappiness" of the .40, and have never considered myself a recoil sensistive person. However, if I need to go back up this learning curve every time I go back to the .40, thats a problem.

Thanks!

GlockinNJ
02-10-2013, 10:15
I bring a G22 and my 9mm CZ to the range with me about once a week. I know exactly what you are talking about.

I think the snapiness of the .40 may cause more flinching than other calibers and requires a bit more discipline to overcome and shoot well. As you mention, snap caps at the range are great for that. But, if you don't fire the .40 frequently enough, I think you can lose that level of focus required to shoot it well.

Bill Keith
02-10-2013, 10:15
I don't like the 40 S&W round because of the 'snappy' recoil. I learned shooting on 22's, will always shoot 22's and then next shot shotguns. 12,16, and 20 gauge. My favorite is the 20gauge. First centerfire handgun was 357:wow: then 45ACP. Got used to both, don't mind the 45ACP in a Colt Commander as well as my G36. Shoot way more 38 special than 357, as my favorite revolver is the S&W model 10:cool:
I did have a 40 S&W Sigma. Got rid of it. Didn't like the gun or the 'snappy' recoil. To each his own.

illrooster132
02-10-2013, 10:16
Yes it does

Travclem
02-10-2013, 10:18
IMO the caliber doesn't cause the flinch.

WayneJessie
02-10-2013, 10:20
Shoot what you shoot the best. Everyone is different. If I were you, after the current "crisis"; I would swap the .40 for another 9MM of your choice and stock up on ammo once the craze is over.It sounds like time constraints and other things limit you to the time you can put into practice so I would use that time to develop your skills as best you can and it sounds like that would be pulling the trigger on a 9MM.

jeager
02-10-2013, 10:22
greater torque ina 40
try lighter bulletts
fav is 165
look for fed border patrol 135s

bac1023
02-10-2013, 12:01
I guess it depends on what you're used to.

jakebrake
02-10-2013, 12:07
compared to a 22, yes.

compared to a 44, no.

all in context. being on the back end of the gun won't hurt you. rememeber that, and the flinching seems to get much less noticable. (no...that's not an insult. it's kind of a psychological thing)

vafish
02-10-2013, 12:19
Greater recoil in a gun, greater chance of inducing a flinch.

.40 has more recoil than 9mm, so yes it does have a greater ability to induce flinching. It varies greatly with the shooter and their experience. A lot of inexperienced shooters will develop a flinch from the 9mm.

posted from my stupid smart phone, please excuse any spelling mistakes.

Bill Lumberg
02-10-2013, 12:23
No. .My Glock 22 was my first semi auto. I couldnt shoot it well for a long time, until I did the Snap Cap drill and realized I was flinching. Was able to overcome it with time.

Then I got more into shooting my PPQ 9MM and a Glock 26. I've always been able to shoot them pretty decent, life was good for about a year.

Then came the current ammo shortage. I found some .40, and naturally gravitated back to my 22. I went out both a few weeks ago and yesterday, and couldnt hit anything. I realized my flinch was now back with a vengance.

I dry fire, shoot a .22 caliber, and use Snaps Caps when needed. So I understand how to move past this issue. My problem here is I've already worked through this issue, then it came back.

So I need to ask: Does the .40 cause more flinching than other calibers? I'm looking to "blame" the caliber simply because I dont see anything else that would have changed. To be clear though, I know that I'm the problem, NOT the caliber.

It should be noted that due to finances and my life style, I can really only go shooting about once every three weeks, and shoot approximately 200 rounds. This isn't about to change anytime soon.

It should also be noted that Ive never conciously minded the "snappiness" of the .40, and have never considered myself a recoil sensistive person. However, if I need to go back up this learning curve every time I go back to the .40, thats a problem.

Thanks!

ipscshooter
02-10-2013, 13:00
Greater recoil in a gun, greater chance of inducing a flinch.

.40 has more recoil than 9mm, so yes it does have a greater ability to induce flinching. It varies greatly with the shooter and their experience. A lot of inexperienced shooters will develop a flinch from the 9mm.


This is good analysis.

I have both a Glock 22 and an STI 2011 with full length slide and frame. The Glock weighs 24 oz. empty, the STI 42 oz. Big difference in felt recoil with 180+PF loads.

Having said that you are right that shooting the G22 more would help you get over flinch. Alternatively, you have to somehow convince yourself the recoil in the G22 is no big deal.

K.Kiser
02-10-2013, 13:14
I guess it depends on what you're used to.

This... Growing up I was taught to shoot what we were gonna be using, unless we were just killing cans and cardboard boxes... Snap caps and very small calibers help you get familiar with trigger pull, but not so much familiar with what a service size firearm is...

My father bought me a 1911 .45 when I was in the 10th grade and I felt a little down about my new low-power pistol in regard to what we were raised on and used to...

My dad used to load a weapon for us with his back turned(or not load it), then get use to do a slow controlled fire for accuracy on a distant target... Sometimes he'd load it live 5 times in a row, then not actually load a round to see our reaction when the trigger pulled... Sometimed 5 empty rounds in a row, then a live one and everything in between... This would be done with everything from a .38 special, .44 mag, 416 rem magnum, etc... This will immune your senses...

Moral to my opinion is that it's what bac1023 stated, condition is everything... Condition a shooter to something very small or something that doesn't go bang at all, and most anything will surprise your senses after that... Nothing to do with any sort of physicallity or muscle man toughness, just what your senses are ready for and accustomed to...

Disclaimer to this is when I was growing up it was incomparably cheaper to shoot full power ammo than it is today, and I completely understand not being able to blast bombs from your gun with any sort of affordability in these times...

Glockaround the Clock
02-10-2013, 13:20
I don't like the 40 S&W round because of the 'snappy' recoil. I learned shooting on 22's, will always shoot 22's and then next shot shotguns. 12,16, and 20 gauge. My favorite is the 20gauge. First centerfire handgun was 357:wow: then 45ACP. Got used to both, don't mind the 45ACP in a Colt Commander as well as my G36. Shoot way more 38 special than 357, as my favorite revolver is the S&W model 10:cool:
I did have a 40 S&W Sigma. Got rid of it. Didn't like the gun or the 'snappy' recoil. To each his own.

I agree tried the 40 but I would rather shoot the 9mm or go to a 45. The 20 guage is my favorite shotgun. My son laughs at me because I would rather shoot a model 10 than any other pistol.

mr00jimbo
02-10-2013, 13:26
I think on lightweight pistols it's definitely more flinch-enducing than heavier ones. My P226 all-stainess pistol in .40 S&W actually recoils considerably less shooting 180 GR Lawmen than my old Sig folded-slide 9 millimeter did.

RJ's Guns
02-10-2013, 13:27
What a bunch of wimps. Get real. Some of you are acting like the 40 S&W is going to rip your hand and arm off each time you shoot it.

In a Glock 22 frame, using the empty weight of 1.43 lb (0.65kg), the following was obtained:

9 mm Luger: Recoil Impulse of 0.78 ms; Recoil Velocity of 17.55 ft/s (5.3 m/s); Recoil Energy of 6.84 ft·lbf (9.3 J)

.357 SIG: Recoil Impulse of 1.06 ms; Recoil velocity of 23.78 ft/s (7.2 m/s); Recoil Energy of 12.56 ft·lbf (17.0 J)

.40 S&W: Recoil impulse of 0.88 ms; Recoil velocity of 19.73 ft/s (6.0 m/s); Recoil Energy of 8.64 ft·lbf (11.7 J)

In a Smith and Wesson .44 Magnum with 7.5-inch barrel, with an empty weight of 3.125 lb (1.417 kg), the following was obtained: .

44 Remington Magnum: Recoil impulse of 1.91 ms; Recoil velocity of 19.69 ft/s (6.0 m/s); Recoil Energy of 18.81 ft·lbf (25.5 J)

In a Smith and Wesson 460 7.5-inch barrel, with an empty weight of 3.5 lb (1.6 kg), the following was obtained:

.460 S&W Magnum: Recoil Impulse of 3.14 ms; Recoil Velocity of 28.91 ft/s (8.8 m/s); Recoil Energy of 45.43 ft·lbf (61.6 J)

In a Smith and Wesson 500 4.5-inch barrel, with an empty weight of 3.5 lb (1.6 kg), the following was obtained:

.500 S&W Magnum: Recoil Impulse of 3.76 ms; Recoil Velocity of 34.63 ft/s (10.6 m/s); Recoil Energy of 65.17 ft·lbf (88.4 J)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recoil (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recoil)

Learn proper technique and quit letting yourselves be influenced by internet forum BS and spin, generated by people, on the most part, that do not know their anus from a hole in the ground and man up.

I prefer 40 S&W in small carry guns, and I shoot them and survive to tell the tale.

RJ

countrygun
02-10-2013, 13:44
You are generally running a 160-180 gn bullet with 35,000 psi of pressure behind it out of gun with a frame and weight designed around a 115-124 gn bullet with 35,000 psi behind it. It will be different.

Now, even though it is based on a 9mm frame my XD tactical 5" makes the .40 a *****cat. It is easier to shoot than my G-22C .

I can't wait to hear the cries of disappointment from those so eagerly awaiting the XDS in .40. Their is going to be a lot of headshaking as they try to figure out why a 180 gn bullet is so uncomfortable to shoot (at 35,000 psi) verses the ease of shooting the .45 230 (at 24,000 psi).

ithaca_deerslayer
02-10-2013, 13:49
I don't like the 40 S&W round because of the 'snappy' recoil. I learned shooting on 22's, will always shoot 22's and then next shot shotguns. 12,16, and 20 gauge. My favorite is the 20gauge. First centerfire handgun was 357:wow: then 45ACP. Got used to both, don't mind the 45ACP in a Colt Commander as well as my G36. Shoot way more 38 special than 357, as my favorite revolver is the S&W model 10:cool:
I did have a 40 S&W Sigma. Got rid of it. Didn't like the gun or the 'snappy' recoil. To each his own.

What are you saying about the G36?

___________
I joined the NRA, have you yet?

joecoastie
02-10-2013, 13:56
What a bunch of wimps. Get real. Some of you are acting like the 40 S&W is going to rip your hand and arm off each time you shoot it.

In a Glock 22 frame, using the empty weight of 1.43 lb (0.65kg), the following was obtained:

9 mm Luger: Recoil Impulse of 0.78 ms; Recoil Velocity of 17.55 ft/s (5.3 m/s); Recoil Energy of 6.84 ft·lbf (9.3 J)

.357 SIG: Recoil Impulse of 1.06 ms; Recoil velocity of 23.78 ft/s (7.2 m/s); Recoil Energy of 12.56 ft·lbf (17.0 J)

.40 S&W: Recoil impulse of 0.88 ms; Recoil velocity of 19.73 ft/s (6.0 m/s); Recoil Energy of 8.64 ft·lbf (11.7 J)

In a Smith and Wesson .44 Magnum with 7.5-inch barrel, with an empty weight of 3.125 lb (1.417 kg), the following was obtained: .

44 Remington Magnum: Recoil impulse of 1.91 ms; Recoil velocity of 19.69 ft/s (6.0 m/s); Recoil Energy of 18.81 ft·lbf (25.5 J)

In a Smith and Wesson 460 7.5-inch barrel, with an empty weight of 3.5 lb (1.6 kg), the following was obtained:

.460 S&W Magnum: Recoil Impulse of 3.14 ms; Recoil Velocity of 28.91 ft/s (8.8 m/s); Recoil Energy of 45.43 ft·lbf (61.6 J)

In a Smith and Wesson 500 4.5-inch barrel, with an empty weight of 3.5 lb (1.6 kg), the following was obtained:

.500 S&W Magnum: Recoil Impulse of 3.76 ms; Recoil Velocity of 34.63 ft/s (10.6 m/s); Recoil Energy of 65.17 ft·lbf (88.4 J)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recoil (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recoil)

Learn proper technique and quit letting yourselves be influenced by internet forum BS and spin, generated by people, on the most part, that do not know their anus from a hole in the ground and man up.

I prefer 40 S&W in small carry guns, and I shoot them and survive to tell the tale.

RJ

http://i1172.photobucket.com/albums/r579/Don_Sprick/BRTky_zps2874db3c.jpg

glock2740
02-10-2013, 14:05
My very first handgun was a 7.5" stainless Ruger Redhawk .44 Magnum. I guess I got over recoil fairly quickly. :cool: My next handgun was a Star Starfire M40 in .40, which is small, but all steel. It didn't feel too snappy after a wooden handled .44 Magnum. I will admit that the lightweight G23 and G27 have more snap than the Glock 9's or 45's but it's not enough to not be able to be easily worked through.

Short Cut
02-10-2013, 14:10
I taught a 6 person beginner class yesterday, 3 couples. I normally don't shoot .40 in beginning classes, but two of the couples just bought them a G22 and G23. By the end of the day they all were grouping fist size or smaller at 7 yards.

Two main things I'll work on to stop shot anticipation is first the trigger pull then a mental lesson to yourself. On the trigger let's say you have a 5# trigger, you're on target focused on the front sight and start the pull when you get about to about 4 pounds of pressure just slowly keeping adding more 4.4, .5, .6 etc. Don't think about pulling through, just keep adding a little more and little more. This will help to bring the surprise back to the trigger break.

The other may sound a little odd, but I can tell you from experience it works. It's not a mechanical shooting issue as much as it is a mental issue. It isn't a natural thing to have an "explosion" going off 2ft in front of your face. If you think about it it's probably more natural to flinch than not to flinch. Tell yourself; it is going to go bang, but that's ok, it isn't going to hurt me, I've done this many times and it hasn't hurt me, stay steady it won't hurt me. The recoil will happen, I'll recover from it and it won't hurt me.

You can practice both of these at home before and during dryfire. Then when you get to the range start out with these principles in mind and begin with slow fire. It will help. :patriot:

GlockinNJ
02-10-2013, 14:58
http://i1172.photobucket.com/albums/r579/Don_Sprick/BRTky_zps2874db3c.jpg


:rofl::rofl::rofl:

On every thread that mentions the snappiness of the .40, some macho man always comes along telling everyone to "man up" and stop being a wimp.

We don't all measure our manhood by the caliber we shoot.

token5gtd
02-10-2013, 15:38
Not so much "man up" as "learn how to shoot."

ipscshooter
02-10-2013, 15:49
The other may sound a little odd, but I can tell you from experience it works. It's not a mechanical shooting issue as much as it is a mental issue. It isn't a natural thing to have an "explosion" going off 2ft in front of your face.[/b]

You can practice both of these at home before and during dryfire. Then when you get to the range start out with these principles in mind and begin with slow fire. It will help. :patriot:

This is what I was trying to say with this in my earlier post.... "Alternatively, you have to somehow convince yourself the recoil in the G22 is no big deal.".

From the OP I think he realizes it's a mental thing, but his instincts are not cooperating too well.

I agree with starting most sessions with a few slow fire groups to ingrain accuracy, and then proceed to drills. Good practice when you are not flinching. :supergrin:

However, as an alternative approach he might try something a friend did for a time. He shot a G22 in IPSC, back when 175 was PF floor for major. When he first began shooting he would start practice sessions by shooting 50-100 rounds into a target pretty fast with no real attempt at great accuracy. This to de-sensitize himself to recoil. That and a lot of practice worked out for him, as he became an excellent shooter with that G22, and after a time did not require the de-sensitize drill.

I realize the OP shoots a few hundred rounds a session, but it might be worthwhile to give the above a try with perhaps a mag or two full, and then proceed to shooting for groups.

ipscshooter
02-10-2013, 15:54
:rofl::rofl::rofl:

On every thread that mentions the snappiness of the .40, some macho man always comes along telling everyone to "man up" and stop being a wimp.

We don't all measure our manhood by the caliber we shoot.

So true....there's always a few.

HEY.....my caliber is bigger than yours. :supergrin:

barth
02-10-2013, 15:56
Not so much "man up" as "learn how to shoot."

Too many people are unwilling to put in the range time
and get training to learn how to shoot properly.

Halo or Call of Duty is not weapons training.

Glockdude1
02-10-2013, 16:02
IMO the caliber doesn't cause the flinch.

:agree:

How would ANY caliber cause flinch?

I have seen many shooters "flinch" when pulling the trigger on a empty chamber.

:dunno:

Short Cut
02-10-2013, 16:44
However, as an alternative approach he might try something a friend did for a time. He shot a G22 in IPSC, back when 175 was PF floor for major. When he first began shooting he would start practice sessions by shooting 50-100 rounds into a target pretty fast with no real attempt at great accuracy. This to de-sensitize himself to recoil. That and a lot of practice worked out for him, as he became an excellent shooter with that G22, and after a time did not require the de-sensitize drill.

I realize the OP shoots a few hundred rounds a session, but it might be worthwhile to give the above a try with perhaps a mag or two full, and then proceed to shooting for groups.


That's kind of interesting and little counter intuitive because shooter fatigue can certainly make a flinch worse too. Whether its a few hundred rounds of .40 or 30 rounds of hot .454, it's been my experience that the flinch gets worse.

It's for this reason that I recommend not over practicing because the fatigue can lead to practicing bad habits. In a perfect world it would be better to shoot a box of 50 rounds for 10 days straight than 500 rounds in a day.

But I also see what you're saying about that pre drill not being as fatigue inducing as slower more deliberate sighted fire would be.

ipscshooter
02-10-2013, 16:51
....shooter fatigue can certainly make a flinch worse too. .

It's for this reason that I recommend not over practicing because the fatigue can lead to practicing bad habits.

But I also see what you're saying about that pre drill not being as fatigue inducing as slower more deliberate sighted fire would be.

I agree fatigue can cause flinching, especially if you are shooting groups. I find shooting groups more tiring than 300-400 rounds running drills.

So we somehat agree that a short drill might be a useful experiment. Too bad we aren't politicans, maybe we could clean up the mess. :supergrin:

Short Cut
02-10-2013, 16:58
Yeah, I can smell what you're steppin' in. :cowboy:

RGbiker
02-10-2013, 17:34
I don't know if .40S&W fired causes more flinching than other calibers as I don't own anything in .40 caliber.

However, I do know first hand that standing next to a 105MM Artillery gun being fired does cause flinching.......:supergrin:

Gregg702
02-10-2013, 17:35
I HATE .40 in Glocks. I find it overly snappy. But out of my Sig P239 and my HK USP Tactical, it feels pretty much like 9mm.

Short Cut
02-10-2013, 17:51
However, I do know first hand that standing next to a 105MM Artillery gun being fired does cause flinching.......:supergrin:

To that I have no doubt. :patriot:

Another pistol I tried recently that really tamed the recoil of the .40 is the full size Beretta Storm. My info is a little sketchy but they did something with the barrel to reduce recoil, it works, I was surprised.

dp2002813
02-10-2013, 17:59
:rofl::rofl::rofl:

On every thread that mentions the snappiness of the .40, some macho man always comes along telling everyone to "man up" and stop being a wimp.

We don't all measure our manhood by the caliber we shoot.

:rofl:

I agree. I tried a Glock 22 and found that I suck at shooting it. I was all over the place, yet, when I shoot .45, I am in a 3" tight group. Tested reloads of 158gr. .357mag, 3" group at 20'. .44mag, 3" group at 25yards. Flinch? sometimes... but I can't shoot .40 well. Wha da?!

just for GlockinNJ... I got your forty and manhood RIGHT HERE. Yous know whatta mean. :supergrin:

G23c
02-10-2013, 18:14
the .40 is sporty.

jonny772
02-10-2013, 18:21
I shoot my g27 better than my 1911. So it's all what you shoot better

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2

ScottieG59
02-10-2013, 18:36
The shooter anticipating recoil may reach to counter it, causing the flinch. You can have a flinch and not know it.

As is not recommended, my first handgun was a small 357 Magnum revolver. I was new to that kind of recoil and I always used hot loads. I was very fortunate to have a misfire and noted a bad flinch. I knew I needed to work to correct my problem.

The key thing to recognize is that the shooter causes the flinch and not the gun. You can only address it by fixing your technique.

With my Army issued M16, we did a lot of dry fire. We would have one solder balance a quarter on the barrel just behind the flash suppressor. With the right trigger squeeze, the quarter would not fall.

With an unloaded handgun, sometimes I will balance a used case over the front sight and do the same drill.

Also, dry firing with a laser sight attached will show issues with trigger pull.

It may help to test yourself by using snap caps in a magazine to simulate a malfunction and see if the flinch is there. We used dummy rounds in basic marksmanship training in the Army too.

cfr
02-10-2013, 19:08
As an FYI to everyone:


I appreciate all the responses so far.
I verified my flinch yesterday using Snap Caps.
I dont think the .40 is going to break my wrists, etc. In fact Ive never understood people complaining about the snappiness. My concern is that Im reacting subconciously to the snapiness, since this issue seems to resurface mainly after not shooting .40 for a while, then going back to it.
Thanks again.

CBennett
02-10-2013, 19:11
I eliminated it fully from my lineup(used to own a Glock 23) I dont like the rounds recoil profile/characteristics..not meaning the ammount of recoil but the way it snaps your wrist back/up instead of like most everything else shoots has a more rolling recoil..I by far like the .45 ACP IMO it has the same "ammount" of recoil as the .40 it just rolls/vreaks differently in more of a rolling push type of recoil which I personally find MUCH easier to control and more importantly get back on target quicker..I feel I can get off more shots in a tighter group is a faster time more accurately with a .45 ACP than with the .40 S&W.

I dont think its "flinch" I dont think much if anything ive shot really causes me any "flinch"(but then again I purposely dont shoot big heavy calibers(never shot anything in a rifle bigger than 30-06 in a M1 garand or the Russian Mosin(7.62X54 is it??) and a 12 GA with slugs(id not want to do that a lot though just hunting or a few for training) ...and in a handgun .45 ACP and .40S&W is the biggest..and I dont feel any of those had a "flinch" factor..at least for me..

GlockinNJ
02-10-2013, 20:18
:rofl:
just for GlockinNJ... I got your forty and manhood RIGHT HERE. Yous know whatta mean. :supergrin:

Hey, fuggetaboutit! :wavey:

TxGun
02-10-2013, 20:29
:rofl::rofl::rofl:

On every thread that mentions the snappiness of the .40, some macho man always comes along telling everyone to "man up" and stop being a wimp.

We don't all measure our manhood by the caliber we shoot.

Is this in the wimp playbook under "how to respond to a challenge"? :tongueout:

LOL. Just kidding, don't get all defensive on me.

Scrappy
02-11-2013, 06:16
What a bunch of wimps. Get real. Some of you are acting like the 40 S&W is going to rip your hand and arm off each time you shoot it.

In a Glock 22 frame, using the empty weight of 1.43 lb (0.65kg), the following was obtained:

9 mm Luger: Recoil Impulse of 0.78 ms; Recoil Velocity of 17.55 ft/s (5.3 m/s); Recoil Energy of 6.84 ft·lbf (9.3 J)

.357 SIG: Recoil Impulse of 1.06 ms; Recoil velocity of 23.78 ft/s (7.2 m/s); Recoil Energy of 12.56 ft·lbf (17.0 J)

.40 S&W: Recoil impulse of 0.88 ms; Recoil velocity of 19.73 ft/s (6.0 m/s); Recoil Energy of 8.64 ft·lbf (11.7 J)

In a Smith and Wesson .44 Magnum with 7.5-inch barrel, with an empty weight of 3.125 lb (1.417 kg), the following was obtained: .

44 Remington Magnum: Recoil impulse of 1.91 ms; Recoil velocity of 19.69 ft/s (6.0 m/s); Recoil Energy of 18.81 ft·lbf (25.5 J)

In a Smith and Wesson 460 7.5-inch barrel, with an empty weight of 3.5 lb (1.6 kg), the following was obtained:

.460 S&W Magnum: Recoil Impulse of 3.14 ms; Recoil Velocity of 28.91 ft/s (8.8 m/s); Recoil Energy of 45.43 ft·lbf (61.6 J)

In a Smith and Wesson 500 4.5-inch barrel, with an empty weight of 3.5 lb (1.6 kg), the following was obtained:

.500 S&W Magnum: Recoil Impulse of 3.76 ms; Recoil Velocity of 34.63 ft/s (10.6 m/s); Recoil Energy of 65.17 ft·lbf (88.4 J)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recoil (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recoil)

Learn proper technique and quit letting yourselves be influenced by internet forum BS and spin, generated by people, on the most part, that do not know their anus from a hole in the ground and man up.

I prefer 40 S&W in small carry guns, and I shoot them and survive to tell the tale.

RJ

You left out 45 ACP and Gap,lol

GlockinNJ
02-11-2013, 07:02
Is this in the wimp playbook under "how to respond to a challenge"? :tongueout:

LOL. Just kidding, don't get all defensive on me.

OK, you got me. I've got "firepower envy". I'm from Jersey and you're from Texas. I can't compete. And it's getting worse. One of the new "gun control" bills introduced in the NJ legislature restricts mag capacity to 5 rounds. FIVE ROUNDS! Thus effectively outlawing almost all firearms. I really hope Christie doesn't sign it, or I may be packing my bags and moving to Texas - home of firepower and good beef. You guys have good steaks down there, right? Love me a good steak.

What was this thread about again?

390ish
02-11-2013, 07:11
I like shooting 10mm. I don't like shooting 40 for the above reasons stated. I just don't find a good recreational round. If I were a cop, I would probably be fine carrying a 40, but I am not, so I don't.

Scrappy
02-11-2013, 07:36
OK, you got me. I've got "firepower envy". I'm from Jersey and you're from Texas. I can't compete. And it's getting worse. One of the new "gun control" bills introduced in the NJ legislature restricts mag capacity to 5 rounds. FIVE ROUNDS! Thus effectively outlawing almost all firearms. I really hope Christie doesn't sign it, or I may be packing my bags and moving to Texas - home of firepower and good beef. You guys have good steaks down there, right? Love me a good steak.

What was this thread about again?

OMG, NJ getting worse and worse!Thank God, I moved out of there in 97!
5 rds would pretty much kill everything even revolvers, as they hold 6-7 rds. Ridiculous, what they have to up NY?
:upeyes:

Spiffums
02-11-2013, 09:13
Naw but my 35 is only a game gun and I load 40 short and weak minor bunny fart loads.

RJ's Guns
02-11-2013, 12:59
You left out 45 ACP and Gap,lol


Those calibers were not listed in the article that I cited.
RJ

blk69stang
02-11-2013, 13:07
Another ".40 is too snappy for me" thread. Yay.


I don't always shoot .40, but when I do, it's to shoot something with lighter recoil than my actual carry piece. Stay manly my friends.

12131
02-11-2013, 13:30
Does .40 cause flinching more than other calibers?
Absolutely! It does. Just the anticipation of the gun snapping back at my wrist causes me to flinch downward to compensate.

Oh wait,...D'oh!

CBennett
02-11-2013, 15:09
Another ".40 is too snappy for me" thread. Yay.


I don't always shoot .40, but when I do, it's to shoot something with lighter recoil than my actual carry piece. Stay manly my friends.

No thanks i will take the "unmanly .45 ACP" as I like the way it recoils better and I can shoot more accurately and quickly with it :rofl:

cfr
02-11-2013, 15:26
Another ".40 is too snappy for me" thread. Yay.




Odd -- That might be what you read, but that's not what I wrote.

MrGlock21
02-12-2013, 02:47
What "other" calibers?
10mm, 44 mag, 454?
Flinch or not, draw and split times. Try it with your timer.

John Galt
02-12-2013, 03:12
It amazes me how many grown men complain about the recoil of Glock .40's when thousands of female LEO's are issued and qualify yearly with them.

Learn how to shoot.

DevilDocsGlocks
02-12-2013, 05:04
.40 " Snappy"..LOL people..
.practice on a short barreled .44....you will get over " Snappy" real quick.

DevilDocsGlocks
02-12-2013, 05:06
I find a snub nosed .38 is as "snappy" as my G-27...plus I have more rounds and more knock down power. Not an issue. Practice practice practice...but of course you could always go to a .22 short , 6 inch barrel revolver...

vtducrider
02-12-2013, 08:32
9 mm Luger: Recoil Impulse of 0.78 ms; Recoil Velocity of 17.55 ft/s (5.3 m/s); Recoil Energy of 6.84 ft·lbf (9.3 J)

.40 S&W: Recoil impulse of 0.88 ms; Recoil velocity of 19.73 ft/s (6.0 m/s); Recoil Energy of 8.64 ft·lbf (11.7 J)



Good info. Thanks... It would be interesting to see the graphical data though, so I can see the peak values. Clearly the recoil impulse is almost 15% larger when compare the .40S&W to the 9mm. Coupled with the higher muzzle rise, the re-acquisition time is likely in the >20% range longer for the .40. That is the main reason I don't prefer the .40. The recoil is manageable with both calibers given adequate practice. And Sig229 recoil characteristics are much better than G23 IMO.

Gregg702
02-12-2013, 11:19
It amazes me how many grown men complain about the recoil of Glock .40's when thousands of female LEO's are issued and qualify yearly with them.

Learn how to shoot.

There is something about the recoil impulse that I hate in my old G22. I would rather shoot my 3" 629 or my friends Desert Eagle .50 AE than a G22.

garya1961
02-12-2013, 18:10
If you wussies are scared of the .40 cal get some pepper spray,lol.

cfr
02-12-2013, 19:01
"Scared of the .40", "too much recoil", "cant handle the snapiness" -- I asked if the snapiness induced flinching. I then went on to say that I've never minded the .40, but am wondering if its characteristics are causing me more harm than good, and suggested it may be due to my not being able to shoot as much as other folks.

Have any of you read my post, or did you simply assume it was yet another guy complaining about the .40?

garya1961
02-12-2013, 19:23
"Scared of the .40", "too much recoil", "cant handle the snapiness" -- I asked if the snapiness induced flinching. I then went on to say that I've never minded the .40, but am wondering if its characteristics are causing me more harm than good, and suggested it may be due to my not being able to shoot as much as other folks.

Have any of you read my post, or did you simply assume it was yet another guy complaining about the .40?

Not referring to you, just the whiners.

HKLovingIT
02-12-2013, 19:34
"Scared of the .40", "too much recoil", "cant handle the snapiness" -- I asked if the snapiness induced flinching. I then went on to say that I've never minded the .40, but am wondering if its characteristics are causing me more harm than good, and suggested it may be due to my not being able to shoot as much as other folks.

Have any of you read my post, or did you simply assume it was yet another guy complaining about the .40?

I think it can induce more flinch but I believe it's all mental perception and psyching yourself out. In your mind you "know" the .40 will have a little more zip than the 9mm so you can anticipate too much or make unneeded corrections or flinch.

If I give a .40 to my brother he doesn't know jack about guns, he just shoots whatever I hand to him and has fun. If I tell him "This one has a little more kick." He'll shoot crappier because he's thinking about that instead of just aiming and shooting. I stopped saying anything other than if he asks what it is. I no longer make any opinion comments about what we're shooting.

garya1961
02-12-2013, 19:41
I think it can induce more flinch but I believe it's all mental perception and psyching yourself out. In your mind you "know" the .40 will have a little more zip than the 9mm so you can anticipate too much or make unneeded corrections or flinch.

If I give a .40 to my brother he doesn't know jack about guns, he just shoots whatever I hand to him and has fun. If I tell him "This one has a little more kick." He'll shoot crappier because he's thinking about that instead of just aiming and shooting. I stopped saying anything other than if he asks what it is. I no longer make any opinion comments about what we're shooting.

Exactly, they have read on the net that the 40 has more recoil and now they wouldn't have one.

Dawolf
02-12-2013, 19:48
In full size, no but light carry weapons, like the Walther PPS I had in .40, pretty much. Why it is not in my stable. Replaced by a Baretta Nano in 9mm.

cfr
02-12-2013, 21:37
Not referring to you, just the whiners.

It occured to me when I was watching TV just now that maybe these comments werent directed at me specifically, and then logged in to see this.

Sincere apologies. :embarassed:

RJ's Guns
02-12-2013, 23:57
It amazes me how many grown men complain about the recoil of Glock .40's when thousands of female LEO's are issued and qualify yearly with them.

Learn how to shoot.



I agree. However, when I mentioned, earlier, something similar, some attempted to pillory me.

“Who is John Galt.”

I am certain that most of the illiterates on this forum have no idea what that means, who I am quoting or where it came from. It is nice to know that at least someone on this forum has read a quality book, but I fear that there are not many others.

RJ

LL6
02-13-2013, 06:50
Or the opposite can be a problem. Around '98 when I part-timed at a range a customer brought in a new .454 he wanted to shoot. We had a petite female who worked there and wanted to try it out, too. She was the consummate target shooter. If I remember she shot a lot of 9mm and some .40 and .45.

She took careful aim with that hand cannon and when it went *bang* the recoil was so much more than she expected the pistol cold-cocked her right in the noggin with the hammer. She was a trooper though because she didn't drop it, but handed it to an onlooker as she crumpled to the floor. :faint:

mrslippery
02-13-2013, 10:50
What a bunch of wimps. Get real. Some of you are acting like the 40 S&W is going to rip your hand and arm off each time you shoot it.

In a Glock 22 frame, using the empty weight of 1.43 lb (0.65kg), the following was obtained:

9 mm Luger: Recoil Impulse of 0.78 ms; Recoil Velocity of 17.55 ft/s (5.3 m/s); Recoil Energy of 6.84 ft·lbf (9.3 J)

.357 SIG: Recoil Impulse of 1.06 ms; Recoil velocity of 23.78 ft/s (7.2 m/s); Recoil Energy of 12.56 ft·lbf (17.0 J)

.40 S&W: Recoil impulse of 0.88 ms; Recoil velocity of 19.73 ft/s (6.0 m/s); Recoil Energy of 8.64 ft·lbf (11.7 J)

In a Smith and Wesson .44 Magnum with 7.5-inch barrel, with an empty weight of 3.125 lb (1.417 kg), the following was obtained: .

44 Remington Magnum: Recoil impulse of 1.91 ms; Recoil velocity of 19.69 ft/s (6.0 m/s); Recoil Energy of 18.81 ft·lbf (25.5 J)

In a Smith and Wesson 460 7.5-inch barrel, with an empty weight of 3.5 lb (1.6 kg), the following was obtained:

.460 S&W Magnum: Recoil Impulse of 3.14 ms; Recoil Velocity of 28.91 ft/s (8.8 m/s); Recoil Energy of 45.43 ft·lbf (61.6 J)

In a Smith and Wesson 500 4.5-inch barrel, with an empty weight of 3.5 lb (1.6 kg), the following was obtained:

.500 S&W Magnum: Recoil Impulse of 3.76 ms; Recoil Velocity of 34.63 ft/s (10.6 m/s); Recoil Energy of 65.17 ft·lbf (88.4 J)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recoil (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recoil)

Learn proper technique and quit letting yourselves be influenced by internet forum BS and spin, generated by people, on the most part, that do not know their anus from a hole in the ground and man up.

I prefer 40 S&W in small carry guns, and I shoot them and survive to tell the tale.

RJ
Very well done RJ.

Short Cut
02-13-2013, 11:55
There's a lot of rooster struttin' going on here. That's great if you shoot the .40 well, you're not exactly in rarified air. However if you haven't noticed that .40 has a snappier recoil than 9mm and .45acp and that it is harder for new shooters to master, then you really haven't been paying attention. :cowboy:

garya1961
02-13-2013, 13:07
I want to be able to shoot all calibers(within reason) not just a 9mm.

whoops dude
02-13-2013, 14:40
If you don't like .40 then shoot something else. I love my g22. Makes anything 9mm feel like a toy.

joecoastie
02-13-2013, 15:14
I agree. However, when I mentioned, earlier, something similar, some attempted to pillory me.

“Who is John Galt.”

I am certain that most of the illiterates on this forum have no idea what that means, who I am quoting or where it came from. It is nice to know that at least someone on this forum has read a quality book, but I fear that there are not many others.

RJ



Perhaps I read too much into your post, however I felt the OP asked a legitimate question, he didn't say that .40 was too much for him or that he wasn't man enough, or that it snapped his wrists off, he even stated that he realized that he as the shooter was the problem. While he got some useful responses he also got a lot of exaggerations of what he actually said and several useless statements along the lines of "man up" or "learn how to shoot". How about some useful input on how to deal with flinching? Personally I have found relaxing and repeating either "squeeze squeeze squeeze" or "front sight front sight front sight" in my head as I do my trigger squeeze helps me focus on something else instead of anticipating recoil.

joecoastie
02-13-2013, 15:15
There's a lot of rooster struttin' going on here. That's great if you shoot the .40 well, you're not exactly in rarified air. However if you haven't noticed that .40 has a snappier recoil than 9mm and .45acp and that it is harder for new shooters to master, then you really haven't been paying attention. :cowboy:

:goodpost:

cfr
02-14-2013, 07:53
I want to be able to shoot all calibers(within reason) not just a 9mm.

Me too, which is why I still own my G22. My concern is not shooting this thing for 6 months, then needing to reclimb the learning curve once I do -- if in fact my hang up is caliber-based.

Who knows, maybe I've simply developed a flinch, and I'll realize it the next time I go shoot a 9.

RJ's Guns
02-14-2013, 12:49
Me too, which is why I still own my G22. My concern is not shooting this thing for 6 months, then needing to reclimb the learning curve once I do -- if in fact my hang up is caliber-based.

Who knows, maybe I've simply developed a flinch, and I'll realize it the next time I go shoot a 9.


Shoot a 22LR and see if you flinch with that.

I have gone through periods where I have been plagued with a flinch. There was one period where my flinch was so consistent and persistent that I dialed in a correction with my sights.

RJ

cfr
02-14-2013, 14:08
Shoot a 22LR and see if you flinch with that.

I have gone through periods where I have been plagued with a flinch. There was one period where my flinch was so consistent and persistent that I dialed in a correction with my sights.

RJ

Will do... if I can find it. :frown:

Short Cut
02-14-2013, 14:34
or put a snap cap in the middle of a magazine, better yet have someone else to it. You'll go bang, bang, bang, CLICK and you will see if you flinch on the click.

cfr
02-14-2013, 15:28
Have already done it, and verified that Im flinching.

Short Cut
02-14-2013, 15:31
best advice I can give is my first post about talking to yourself. Sounds funny, but I have found it to be effective.

cfr
02-14-2013, 18:03
best advice I can give is my first post about talking to yourself. Sounds funny, but I have found it to be effective.

Im thinking this an .22 shooting will cure what ails me. Thanks to all!:wavey:

garya1961
02-18-2013, 18:08
Im thinking this an .22 shooting will cure what ails me. Thanks to all!:wavey:
I like my Ruger Mark III.

Pepiot
02-18-2013, 19:20
Nope..

NEOH212
02-19-2013, 01:47
IMO the caliber doesn't cause the flinch.

I agree. Flinch is a shooter issue and has nothing to do with the gun. To get rid of it requires practice and a bit of not being a wuss.:whistling:

G29SFWTF
02-19-2013, 06:15
I think flinching comes at least in part by lack of confidence in the connection between your hand and the gun. An aggressive grip texture will make you confident that you will not lose control of the gun during recoil, and give you the luxury of a firm grip without being a death grip. And you'll be less likely to involuntarily anticipate the recoil, or flinch.

Here is my G29 with 60 grit silicon carbide. I can shoot the hottest 10mm Underwood rounds and it does jump pretty good, but I just make sure my stance is solid and it comes right back down on target after each shot.

http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i97/alkjhlakwehakwehflkuawehflkjashdflkjasdhlf/g29grip_zpse30d2eb8.jpg

cfr
02-24-2013, 09:12
So I went out a couple days ago after spending as much on .22 ammo as folks typically do on gold. :crying:

100 rounds through my G26 AA conversion. Then another 100 rounds of 9MM with snap caps mixed in. My flinch wasn't completely eliminated, but not nearly as bad (like 95% improved probably).

I didn't shoot any .40 simply due to current economic/ ammo conditions, but I suspect the outcome would have been similar.

Short Cut
02-24-2013, 10:14
Hey everybody drops shots now and then. Perfection is elusive. :)

Next time you shoot the .40 concentrate heavy on just the first mag. After all if you can come out of the holster and hit well with your first magazine full you've achieved the crux of the biscuit.

Short Cut
02-24-2013, 10:24
A little perspective, over 80% of officer fatalities are within 21' (http://firearmusernetwork.com/2012/01/20/shooting-distance-and-survivial/). So in a defensive situation that close you might make a belly or groin shot instead of a chest shot, that's still going to change the BGs program enough for you to make follow up shot(s).

blk69stang
02-24-2013, 11:08
There's a lot of rooster struttin' going on here. That's great if you shoot the .40 well, you're not exactly in rarified air. However if you haven't noticed that .40 has a snappier recoil than 9mm and .45acp and that it is harder for new shooters to master, then you really haven't been paying attention. :cowboy:


Well, to be honest, I don't really notice much difference in recoil between those calibers anymore. When I first started shooting, I might have noticed it, but anymore the difference in percieved recoil has blurred. 45 feels like a soft shooter, 40 feels "normal", and 9mm feels downright weak (practically nonexistent). To me, I would consider hot 10mm, 44 mag, and 454 "stout but managable". Now surprisingly enough, if I shoot my wife's lightweight snubbie .38 with some of the "police load" 158gr LRNs, THAT becomes unpleasant recoil... something about the balance of the gun and the solid backstrap makes each shot "sting" your palm like a baseball bat when you hit outside the sweet spot. Not really "heavy" recoil, because it isn't... it just stings and makes it unpleasant.

Weird, I know, but I'd rather shoot a 44mag than that little 38.

Really though, recoil is all about perception. If you are percieving the recoil and it's throwing off your shot, you need to slow down and concentrate on the front sight more:

-Front sight in focus, target and rear sight blurred
-Apply increasing pressure to the trigger SLOWLY. Take AT LEAST 5 seconds to pull the trigger. If you feel a flinch coming on, slow down. Make the trigger pull take 30 seconds.
-The trigger break should surprise you. As my dad told me "you just keep the sights on target and apply pressure. The gun will go off when it knows it's ready."
-follow through. Keep focus on the front sight, bring gun back on target before lowering the gun and/or changing focus to the target. Better yet, don't look at the target, don't worry about where you hit until after shooting, and DON'T "chase" your hits on the paper.

Will Beararms
02-24-2013, 11:41
My gen 4 G22 abates much more recoil than the Gen 2 Glock 22. It fits my hand better. A firearm is a tool to me. As Clint Smith says they are meant to be comfortING not comfortABLE.

joecoastie
02-24-2013, 11:49
Well, to be honest, I don't really notice much difference in recoil between those calibers anymore. When I first started shooting, I might have noticed it, but anymore the difference in percieved recoil has blurred. 45 feels like a soft shooter, 40 feels "normal", and 9mm feels downright weak (practically nonexistent). To me, I would consider hot 10mm, 44 mag, and 454 "stout but managable". Now surprisingly enough, if I shoot my wife's lightweight snubbie .38 with some of the "police load" 158gr LRNs, THAT becomes unpleasant recoil... something about the balance of the gun and the solid backstrap makes each shot "sting" your palm like a baseball bat when you hit outside the sweet spot. Not really "heavy" recoil, because it isn't... it just stings and makes it unpleasant.

Weird, I know, but I'd rather shoot a 44mag than that little 38.

Really though, recoil is all about perception. If you are percieving the recoil and it's throwing off your shot, you need to slow down and concentrate on the front sight more:

-Front sight in focus, target and rear sight blurred
-Apply increasing pressure to the trigger SLOWLY. Take AT LEAST 5 seconds to pull the trigger. If you feel a flinch coming on, slow down. Make the trigger pull take 30 seconds.
-The trigger break should surprise you. As my dad told me "you just keep the sights on target and apply pressure. The gun will go off when it knows it's ready."
-follow through. Keep focus on the front sight, bring gun back on target before lowering the gun and/or changing focus to the target. Better yet, don't look at the target, don't worry about where you hit until after shooting, and DON'T "chase" your hits on the paper.

:goodpost:

dougader
02-24-2013, 12:10
I've never had a problem with flinching when shooting the service calibers, even the 454. But a bud's 475 Linebaugh makes me flinch right away.

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Tiro Fijo
02-24-2013, 13:30
Face it, some men are meant to ride the trail and others to sit on the Chuckwagon. :whistling:


:rofl:

100MMFan
02-24-2013, 15:02
Hold low for big guns. Let er buck.


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kirbinster
02-24-2013, 15:41
As a new shooter I find this very interesting. I rented a G17, G19 and G23 at my range before deciding what to buy. I found I was just as good with the G23 as the G19, but liked the feel of the G17 better. So, I went out and bought a new G22 gen4. The first shot I fired was dead center, you should have seen the smile on my face. But a friend (some friend, right?) told me that .40 cal is too snappy and I should stick to 9mm. Now I find I am flinching with the .40 cal since he put that in my head. I am going to take the suggestion of very slowly pulling so it surprises me again.