Stuff I can't relate to [Archive] - Glock Talk

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ditto1958
02-11-2013, 18:55
I'm starting to get up there a bit in age. Let's just say that milk was delivered to our door and the doctor made house calls when I was growing up. Anyway, after getting back in to shooting for almost a year now, there are a few things I just can't seem to relate to.

1. Tactical. Well, at least pretty much of it. To be honest, if all this craziness had not happened, I'm pretty sure I would own an AR-15 now.

I kinda get it. I mean, yeah, it's cool stuff and all, and in some cases, it really is practical, useful stuff. Much of the time, though, it's just a style thing, I think. I suspect that a very large percentage of tactical stuff is purchased by people who have no way to use it, and probably are likely to never ever use the stuff.

Do people who want tacti-cool guns and gear need to justify it? No. Do I support their right to buy the stuff and have it if they want? Yes, of course. 100%.

I'm just a really traditional guy, though, who really appreciates beautiful walnut stocked rifles, and 1911's with rosewood grips, and, well, just really classy stuff that also serves a purpose.

That sort of brings me into the next pet peeve:

2. Buying stuff you can't use. I am somewhat of a YouTube gun channel addict, and I can't help but notice that some of the folks on the channels I enjoy make some purchases that really puzzle me.

On one channel I enjoy, the guy bought a really nice AK, spent a whole bunch of money on aftermarket parts to get it all "tacti-cool," and then took it out to a range. (He apparently lives in an urban area, and normally shoots at an indoor range where only handguns are allowed. The closest outdoor range is pretty far away).

At the outdoor range, he was actually indoors, shooting at paper through a smallish window. Well, he set the rifle on the table, possibly on a sandbag, and shot at the targets with it. This looked awkward as all get out, what with the 30 round banana mags and all. I don't see how that could have been at all enjoyable.

I dunno... if the only outdoors shooting you can do is from a benchrest at paper targets, why not spend your money on rifles that are good for that?

3. Shooting groups/obsessing over accuracy of guns and ammo.

I just don't get it. Modern firearms are really accurate. Modern factory ammo is really, really good. Reloads when done right are also really, really good. Why worry so much about the firearms and the ammunition when the human element involved is the one that really needs the most work?

When you watch a really talented shooter cut a moving length of dental floss with an upside down .22 pistol, its not the gun or the ammo that's the weak point, is it.

Can a better trigger, or a target barrel, or better optics help? Yes, of course they can. I know, though, that between me, the hardware and the ammo, I"m the one who has the most room for improvement.

tedwhite
02-11-2013, 19:49
Hear, hear, sir. You share some of my sentiments. I bought an AR-15 five years ago, a Bushmaster as I recall. Why did I buy it when I had a perfectly good Ruger Mini-14 heavy barrel with a 20 round mag? I'm sure it was because all my LE friends were buying them. Of course there was then the panic that the new President would re-institute the assault weapons ban. But it didn't happen.

Anyway, after some months I realized that, as far as I could tell, it didn't do anything the Mini-14 couldn't do. Both used the same .223 ammo, both shot well - I couldn't see any difference there at all. What then, was the rush? Actually, I felt like a fool wandering around in the desert with it. And I got more attention than I wanted from DEA, HS, Border Patrol, BAG Squad, and the local sheriffs office. But when I wandered around in the desert with my Mini-14 with its wood stocks I was just another hunter. In fact they would wave at me when they drove by. Or stop and pass the time of day, rather than get out with their hands on their Glocks and approach warily.

So I sold the AR-15. It was kind of fiddly anyway.

As for your comments on the shooter, I couldn't agree more. I once watched an elderly gent out shoot the much younger competition with an old Smith&Wesson Model 10. It had most of the blueing worn off, had stock sights, etc. I don't know his background, could have been an ex-Texas Ranger for all I knew, but he was at one with his gun. I think if you had offered him the latest edition of a Glock, H&K, Sig Sauer, etc., he probably would have politely turned down the offers. Maybe said, "Thank y'all but I get along just fine with this one."

Bruce M
02-11-2013, 19:58
OP Great post but a whole bunch of people who manufacture and sell that stuff will probably end up really disliking you. Even though you are truthful.

countrygun
02-11-2013, 20:05
Bravo to the posters so far.

BTW has anyone seen one of these guys pop into a forum to ask,

"I just bought this tactical sniper rifle. My local range only has targets out to 100 yds. I can zero the rifle there but, since I have never fired any rifle but a .22, how many clicks up do I have to give the scope to be on at 800 yds?"

mjkeat
02-11-2013, 20:55
I'm a practical minded shooter as well. Because of this I prefer synthetic furniture, it's lighter and more durable. I own an 870 Wingmaster that never leaves the safe. I have no use for it. I'd sell it if it was handed down to me from my wife's father.

I was in a carbine class w/ some state corrections officers. In my state they are issued Mini-14s. All but one brought ARs. The officer running the mini wasn't as effective. I gave him my back-up AR and he ran through the class much more smoothly. The mini just has design features that make certain things more difficult.

I agree that bench shooting is BORING and almost useless in my opinion. I can't think of any practical use for it. There will never be a bench around during a defensive situation or in the field while hunting.

I do get a kick out of guys who get a brand new firearm and before they even shoot it they're creating "what should I bolt on it" threads. There are certain things that are force multipliers but there's a fine line.

FelixD
02-11-2013, 21:20
Its nice to know I'm not alone. The tactical thing has really been over done. I see a lot of Walter Mittys who must think they need to dress the part or buy stuff to be a shooter. As for the last two items there seems to be a real lack of practical knowledge about shooting and guns out there. Far too many inexperienced shooters blindly accept what they read on line as reality. Its unfortunate they haven't had the opportunity to learn from the likes of a Pope, Askins, Whelen, Keith, Hatcher, or Ackley. There are a lot more for the list, but I've made my point.

NEOH212
02-11-2013, 21:49
OP, I agree with you totally. I'm sure you have a few years on me but I too am a big fan of fine walnut and blued steel. I've been down the tactical road.

I ended taking most of it off of my guns and selling it when I realized I could be just as effective without all the gizmos. Don't get me wrong, I have no issue with accessories that work, are useful, or that actually enhance my shooting ability. I also have no problem with bolting something onto my gun so I can tailor it to the way I'm using it.

With all that being said, I don't want anything on my gun that I don't need. Just as well, I'm not bolting something on my gun because it looks cool or because some add in a gun mag had a slicked up operator in it with too much hair gel assuring me that I have to have what he has because I can't be a ubber-tacticool operator without it.

I get a kick out of the guys that show up at the range with the tricked out AR's with $3k worth of gear and accessories and don't know how to load it let alone be able to sight it in or hit anything past 50 yards.

I love it when I show them up and hit my target over and over at the 200m mark with iron sights.

All that tacti-cool stuff has it's place but most of us civi's (myself included) won't ever use it much less need it.

I like my guns simple and effective. That standard hasn't failed me yet. Besides, the money I save gets spent on ammo and range time. The things that actually improve my shooting. The thing accessories alone can't and won't ever do.

ditto1958
02-11-2013, 21:51
I read a post somewhere this morning that got me all in a huff about this. A guy posted a picture of his new 10/22 carbine. His first ever 10/22. Before shooting it even once, he put an extended mag release on it, a skeletonized over-sized charging handle, an after market bolt buffer and a scope.

Then he took it to his 25 yard indoor range and came back with a picture of his best group.

I think he's now asking for questions on what he should do to the trigger.


Posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire (http://www.outdoorhub.com/mobile/)

NEOH212
02-11-2013, 21:53
Far too many inexperienced shooters blindly accept what they read on line as reality.


X 1,000!

:thumbsup::agree:

NEOH212
02-11-2013, 21:55
I read a post somewhere this morning that got me all in a huff about this. A guy posted a picture of his new 10/22 carbine. His first ever 10/22. Before shooting it even once, he put an extended mag release on it, a skeletonized over sized charging handle and a scope.

Then he took it to his 25 yard indoor range and came back with a picture of his best group.

I think he's now asking for questions on what he should do to the trigger.




You just got to love it! If someone makes it, someone else will think they need to buy it.

:faint:

PzGren
02-11-2013, 22:35
No doubt, times are changing and have always done so. With the information highway and modern means of communiaction, the change is just accelerated. I guess ditto1958 and I are about the same age but I have stayed inside the gun loop since my childhood. Early childhood.

I saw my generation embrace combat guns, then the wondernines just as much as the generation now has termed their toys tactical.

I have two sons that are in their early twenties and with their friends around I am getting exposed to kids a lot. I find nothing wrong with their tacti-coolness, smoking up the house with their hookahs and putting funny flat tires on their cars.

willieH
02-12-2013, 03:37
My other hobby is woodworking and I noticed the same phenomena with some folks having the latest and greatest tools and equipment. I couldn't figure out why these types of people didn’t actually build much of anything. Then I realized that their “shop” was the hobby. They derived pleasure from collecting high tech tools and jawing about the specific mechanical tolerances and such.

A vast majority of gun people, hunt-and-gather at the grocery store and are not depended on a fresh meat harvest for survival. Statistically most of us will never face a potential violent confrontation where a defensive weapon will be required. Yeah, defending ourselves is rational excuse for owning a weapon and hunting interests are another.

So guns are a mere hobby. When emotions tangle with disposable income in quest of a leisure activity, then I expect each individual having a different reason to enter the pursuit that may mature over time to sustain the passion. Unfortunately, I must confess to having a couple of safe queens because at the time I just had to have them because they were “cool.” :whistling:

Latest acquisition: FNAR .308

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y66/wlhutch/22/FNARwscope1_zps1d5278ea.jpg

ALLVOL
02-12-2013, 04:23
I've got a friend of mine and his dad is what I would call "an old school gun guy." Vietnam veteran, former LEO, and all around great guy. He's a big revolver guy and when you put a revolver in his hand that guy can straight go to work with it. Would take him on my team in a heartbeat with a Model 10 versus some guy with a Glock who knows nothing about his pistol and how it works.

I always joke with my buddy and tell him if I was to ever open a gun store his dad is my first hire. He flat out knows his weapons, not because he's read about them or talked to people about them. It's because he's put tens of thousands of rounds down range with a ton of different weapons. Any question I have about firearms, he can answer them.

Traditional doesn't mean you are less than some guy with a tricked out weapon system.

At the end of the day it all comes back to the person behind the trigger.

DonD
02-12-2013, 08:28
A slight variation of this theme.

My son is LE with a private, off-duty business in sniper training and is a licensed instructor as well. He's into big, heavy precision rifles one of which is about a .3 MOA gun @ 100 and always tries to coax me into getting a similar sniper rifle. While I can and do respect such firearms, they're not for me.

My range only goes out to 100 yds off the bench. What good is wanging away at paper with a .338 Lapua or something like that at 100? The closest thing I have to "tactical" is a Mini 30 that's a lot of fun to shoot and only weighs 6# or so. Oh, horrors, Rep Pelosi will be shocked, it has a black synthetic stock. Don

byf43
02-12-2013, 14:58
OP,

I too remember milk delivered to the door, doctor made house-calls, and Mickey D's hamburgers for 3˘, and fries for 2˘.

I'm not 'into' tactical.

I bought my first AR-15 when I was shooting High Power Rifle Competition, and had screwed up my back.
The almost non-existent recoil allowed me to get back into shooting. (Prone position was a killer, though!)

That HBAR now has a 3-9 scope on it, and a "Delta" cheekpiece, so that I can even see/hit the target! :rofl:

fnfalman
02-12-2013, 15:05
Stuff I can't get used to: a 50-years-old rifle design that has more bolt-ons than the Bay Watch chicks.

jakebrake
02-12-2013, 15:11
yes, the "tacticool" thing is kinda silly. granted, there may be a thing or two that'd help in some way (sights, and such), but, do you need a bayonet, a flashlight, 2 lasers, a trijicon acog, blah blah, to shoot it?

if you do, you probably shouldn't own it.

390ish
02-12-2013, 15:11
Yeah, I amazed about the discussions dealing with accuracy on ar-15.com and shooting for groups and getting all wound up -- when the optic in question is an aimpoint. Lots of information on that site, but kind of strange.

jakebrake
02-12-2013, 15:19
Yeah, I amazed about the discussions dealing with accuracy on ar-15.com and shooting for groups and getting all wound up -- when the optic in question is an aimpoint. Lots of information on that site, but kind of strange.

they get a little too crazy on things. i am a black sheep, as i own a "brand x" ar.

ditto1958
02-12-2013, 16:36
My other hobby is woodworking and I noticed the same phenomena with some folks having the latest and greatest tools and equipment. I couldn't figure out why these types of people didn’t actually build much of anything. Then I realized that their “shop” was the hobby. They derived pleasure from collecting high tech tools and jawing about the specific mechanical tolerances and such.

A vast majority of gun people, hunt-and-gather at the grocery store and are not depended on a fresh meat harvest for survival. Statistically most of us will never face a potential violent confrontation where a defensive weapon will be required. Yeah, defending ourselves is rational excuse for owning a weapon and hunting interests are another.

So guns are a mere hobby. When emotions tangle with disposable income in quest of a leisure activity, then I expect each individual having a different reason to enter the pursuit that may mature over time to sustain the passion. Unfortunately, I must confess to having a couple of safe queens because at the time I just had to have them because they were “cool.” :whistling:

Latest acquisition: FNAR .308

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y66/wlhutch/22/FNARwscope1_zps1d5278ea.jpg


I ran into the same thing with my other hobby, photography. The photography forums are overrun by "gear guys" and "pixel peepers." This has gotten worse with the advent of digital photography. Back when I started out, the brand of camera you had and the lenses you had were much less important than the film, the processing, and most of all, your skill at taking pictures.

Lots of folks nowadays, I swear they never take pictures of anything, other than to test their gear to make sure their lenses are sharp and there is no "noise" in their images.

I have no problem with buying guns because you like them, but me, personally? I wouldn't be wasting my money too often on something I'm not going to use. (Except the Henry Silver Golden Boy I almost bought today :innocent:).

garya1961
02-12-2013, 16:59
The most tactical thing I have is that I have a scope on one of my L1A1s. What gets to me is an AK with so much junk hanging on it that Ivan wouldn't recognize it.

NEOH212
02-16-2013, 21:02
Stuff I can't get used to: a 50-years-old rifle design that has more bolt-ons than the Bay Watch chicks.

Interesting analogy but I agree 100%.

railfancwb
02-17-2013, 00:22
Actually read an article recently which focused on hitting the bullseye with the first shot out of a cold barrel rather than shooting groups. Except for shooting at prairie dogs, one shot from a cold barrel is a common hunting situation.

CajunBass
02-17-2013, 02:50
I'm pretty much the same way. I've never wanted an AR for some reason but a few years ago I got the buq up my butt to be ready if the stuff hit the fan. I bought a couple of SKS's, a few hundred rounds of ammo and though I was on the way to "getting ready."

Later it occured to me that (1) I was way too old to take to the hills, (2) even if I wasn't I've got a handicapped wife who can't go with me, and I'm sure not leaving her behind, (3) and most important really, was I didn't have a place to shoot a rifle except for the state sight in range over on the wildlife management center. I don't even hunt deer with a rifle, I've always used a shotgun for that. As a matter of fact, the few times I'd used a rifle for deer hunting, I realized that my mind was so locked into shotgun and buckshot thinking, that I considered a 50 yard shot to be "long range." I would have never taken a shot at a deer even 50 yards away I don't think.

I guess it's easy to see why I don't own a rifle bigger than a 22 anymore. :supergrin:

Restless28
02-17-2013, 06:25
I started a thread in the Lounge awhile back about "fantasy operators". After seeing many episodes of Doomsday Preppers and locals tacticooling AKs to the extreme, I thought that the majority of the folks are living a SHTF fantasy.

I even said that a long range shooter could take out these folks in a a true apocalypse.

I even admit that I'm not an operator.

PzGren
02-17-2013, 08:55
Night vision and a silcencer that will cut the muzzle flash at the same time will come in more handy than a 10,000 lumens christmas tree on the fore end and a magazine that will not allow you to go prone.

Pier23
02-17-2013, 09:28
Ditto;

Great post!

One of my other pasttimes is bicycle riding, so I have a medium-fair hybrid -not pure roadbike, not pure trail-that I enjoy. A woman looked at my bike and asked if my saddlebags slowed me down because of the air resistance.

I laughed and said that with my riding speed, air resistance had never been an issue.

If people have fun with their hobbies, that is all that is required of that hobby, and the time and money spent therefore....

FullClip
02-17-2013, 09:36
Ditto;

.......If people have fun with their hobbies, that is all that is required of that hobby, and the time and money spent therefore....

:goodpost:

I agree 100%!

There's always "different strokes" out there.


I can't see the sense of spending a few grand on a fancy shotgun to bust trap clays.....but there sure is a market out there for people who feel different.

Likewise with deer hunters in my neck of the woods who now feel that anything less than a .300WM is a "girly gun". Don't think the deer have got any more bullet proof than they were when the 30-30 was introduced.

But to each their own, and I try not to judge people by their preferences.




























But it is fun to see people flinching like crazy due to their over powered magnums while shooting at the 100 yard paper targets.:supergrin:

Bob Hafler
02-17-2013, 11:39
To each there own I guess. I to remember George the milkman.What I am supprised at, is I still remember his name. :rofl:
I like iron sights and wooden stocks. To me that's what shooting is all about, you and your rifle, Period. No two wooden stock rifles are exactly the same, I always liked that. All my self defense rifles have wooden stocks and except for one are probably older than most of you and only the 30/30 has a scope. Not very tacticool but they work very well and that works for me.
Yes I too choose the new wooden stock 580 Mini14 Ranch rifle with iron sights over one of those tacticool AR 15s with no regrets.