Why aren't there 22 wmr made in semi-auto? [Archive] - Glock Talk

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Bernie Link
02-18-2013, 09:35
Why aren't there 22 wmr made in semi-auto? I've heard that the Kel Tec PMR-30 has suspended production because of key-holing. AMT & Excel Arms Accelerator Pistol have one but are they still made? I'm just wondering why Glock, Taurus, Ruger, S&W, etc. are not making a 22 mag. auto?

WoodenPlank
02-18-2013, 09:41
Why aren't there 22 wmr made in semi-auto? I've heard that the Kel Tec PMR-30 has suspended production because of key-holing. AMT & Excel Arms Accelerator Pistol have one but are they still made? I'm just wondering why Glock, Taurus, Ruger, S&W, etc. are not making a 22 mag. auto?

If I remember correctly, it is due to chamber pressure vs case size. The casing is pretty long for it's diameter, and it has relatively high chamber pressure during firing. The combination of the two makes it difficult to get extraction and ejection to work reliably on a blowback system, and I don't think there is enough gas or energy available for a gas or piston driven mechanism.

VA27
02-18-2013, 10:15
Market share. There just aren't that many people who would buy one. Add to that the fact that he big companies are making their current guns as fast as they can and are still behind.

The R&D required to bring a successful design to market is considerable (for all the reasons WoodenPlank mentioned) and the return isn't there to make it pay.

AMT made one and if you get a good one it'll work. The same with KelTec and Excel. There's a new Excel at my LGS right now.

Pawcatch@aol.co
02-18-2013, 10:33
.22 WRM really shines out of a long barrel.Add to that the cost of ammo,I think there just isn't much demand for a 22wrm pistol.

VA27
02-18-2013, 11:29
While the 22 mag is great out of a rifle, it's no slouch out of a handgun. My 3.5" Smith Model 51 will match the velocities of a 22lr out of a rifle.

The_Gun_Guru
02-18-2013, 11:44
The keyholeing issue has been solved.

The PMR-30 is amazing!!!!
http://i203.photobucket.com/albums/aa310/gunguru364/20121226_233618-1_zps5484c8d9.jpg


Grendel also used to make one called the P-30. Didn't last long.


TGG

CMG
02-18-2013, 13:01
They simply don't sell very well.

Ammo cost and pistol cost put them in a very small market compared to other chamberings.

bac1023
02-18-2013, 13:49
The demand just isn't there for companies to spend R&D money on one.

There are other reasons, as mentioned above, but I believe this is the main reason.

The_Gun_Guru
02-18-2013, 13:56
They simply don't sell very well.

Ammo cost and pistol cost put them in a very small market compared to other chamberings.

now, yes, a limited market.

before the panic though it was an affordable pistol with fairly affordable ammo. 30 rounds of 22 WMR is a formidable weapon in any hands!

try finding a 9 millimeter pistol that holds 30 rounds and weighs 19 ounces fully loaded.

not going to happen! :-)


TGG

Victoriagotagun
02-18-2013, 14:48
Grendel also used to make one called the P-30. Didn't last long.

That's because it was a POS. That's just another reason why I won't buy anything by Kel-tec. :whistling:

CMG
02-18-2013, 15:36
now, yes, a limited market.

before the panic though it was an affordable pistol with fairly affordable ammo. 30 rounds of 22 WMR is a formidable weapon in any hands!

try finding a 9 millimeter pistol that holds 30 rounds and weighs 19 ounces fully loaded.

not going to happen! :-)


TGG

I bought my PMR30 a couple years ago (Nov 2010) for $345 OTD, the first one the dealer had, but the BIG ISSUE is (before the current silliness) ammo costs for 9mm were the same or less (bulk stuff) than .22WMR.

Not too many folks (regular folks, not gun-nuts like us) think a .22 should be that expensive to shoot.

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b175/pb9x19/History/KTPMR30L.jpg

The_Gun_Guru
02-18-2013, 15:45
That's because it was a POS. That's just another reason why I won't buy anything by Kel-tec. :whistling:

Kel-Tec is not the company it started out to be.I believe they are now the number 3 gun maker in the country and their stuff is now top notch! Are there lemons? Of course! Even Glock ha lemons though.


TGG

Glock21Owner
02-18-2013, 19:19
About 30 years ago a friend had a Harrington and Richardson Model 700 that we used to shoot all the time. A semi auto .22 magnum, I loved shooting that rifle.

GSSF17
02-18-2013, 19:32
About 30 years ago a friend had a Harrington and Richardson Model 700 that we used to shoot all the time. A semi auto .22 magnum, I loved shooting that rifle.

I had one of those. Yes- fun rifle. I love the Marlin 922M (semi-auto 22 bag rifle) as well, and mine is a tack driver. As far as a pistol in 22 WMR, I have a friend with a PMR 30 , and that's good enough for me. I will not own one, personally. 22 mag out of a 6 inch or less barrel is nothing spectacular, IMO.

dkf
02-18-2013, 19:44
The AMT Automag is also available in .22wmr.

As soon as I am able to get a PMR30 for a under $400 I will buy one. My local shops got small amounts of them in which were selling for slightly over $300 but I was not able to pick one up. I have other guns in .22wmr so not concerned about ammo.

For the most part for auto loading pistols rimmed cartridges are avoided, for obvious reasons.

RGbiker
02-18-2013, 23:19
.22WMR round probably would be a feed ramp issue. The shorter in length .22lr is a bit delicate to feed reliably even in a Beretta Bobcat.

Ruger recently announced a LCR in .22WMR.

Haldor
02-19-2013, 07:00
To be honest firing a semi-auto .22 WRM pistol is just a bit too sporting for me. If you get a FTF jam then there is a very real possibility of it firing out of battery. Centerfire rounds do a much better job of protecting the primer from this.

I am much happier firing .22 WRM from my Single Six or a rifle.

Bernie Link
02-19-2013, 08:13
The keyholeing issue has been solved.

The PMR-30 is amazing!!!!
http://i203.photobucket.com/albums/aa310/gunguru364/20121226_233618-1_zps5484c8d9.jpg


Grendel also used to make one called the P-30. Didn't last long.


TGGDo you have any failure issues with it? How do you like it? On gunbroker.com they are asking as much as $1600. At budsgunshop.com when they had them they were $312. So it sounds like due to short supply there are some that are price gouging.

bac1023
02-19-2013, 10:21
On gunbroker.com they are asking as much as $1600.

Ridiculous

yellolab
02-19-2013, 13:24
I paid $350 for my PMR30, and its runs great.

As far as ammo prices, I paid $11.99 for 50ct of Speer Gold Dot Short Barrel from PSA.
Honestly, it's one of my more "just plain fun" guns. Cheap, light, loud, awesome trigger.

Kevin

bac1023
02-19-2013, 18:22
I paid $350 for my PMR30, and its runs great.

As far as ammo prices, I paid $11.99 for 50ct of Speer Gold Dot Short Barrel from PSA.
Honestly, it's one of my more "just plain fun" guns. Cheap, light, loud, awesome trigger.

Kevin

I wish I would have picked one up when I could, but I'm not paying crazy prices for a Kel Tec.

So far, I haven't overpaid for anything during the panic and I'm not going to start now.

SJ 40
02-19-2013, 19:18
Do you have any failure issues with it? How do you like it? On gunbroker.com they are asking as much as $1600. At budsgunshop.com when they had them they were $312. So it sounds like due to short supply there are some that are price gouging.I like mine well enough I'm looking for another.
Out of 11 different manufactures of ammunition the only brand function and accuracy wise it didn't care for was Hornandy 45 gr.FTX aka Critical Defense.
Speer Gold Dots are very accurate and flawless as are winchester super X.
The PMR 30 has to have the best out of the box trigger,one has a hard time believing a 320.00 gun.
I was at a gun show a week ago and some bozo had one marked at 1299.99,a bit over a year ago I paid 319.00 for the one I have. SJ 40

The_Gun_Guru
02-19-2013, 20:18
Do you have any failure issues with it? How do you like it? On gunbroker.com they are asking as much as $1600. At budsgunshop.com when they had them they were $312. So it sounds like due to short supply there are some that are price gouging.

The ONLY issues I had were, when I first started taking it to the range, FTFs because I had loaded the mags wrong.

I did some research and now it is FLAWLESS!!!:banana:

Just like .32ACP, .22WMR is subject to rimlock, so the mags have to be loaded a certain way. The rim of the top round in the mag must always be in front of the rim of the round below it, as seen here:
http://i203.photobucket.com/albums/aa310/gunguru364/20130219_195139_zps5706b513.jpg

If the mags are loaded correctly you will have ZERO issues with this gun!


I love this gun! IT ROCKS!!!!:rock:


TGG

bac1023
02-19-2013, 20:22
The PMR30 is a cool pistol, but anyone spending anywhere near $1000 for one needs to have their head examined.

WoodenPlank
02-19-2013, 20:23
The PMR30 is a cool pistol, but anyone spending anywhere near $1000 for one needs to have their head examined.

I agree. Then again, when FN FiveseveN's are running close to 2k in some places lately...

bac1023
02-19-2013, 20:25
I agree. Then again, when FN FiveseveN's are running close to 2k in some places lately...

I would feel the same way about that.

I own an FN FiveseveN and love it, but I wouldn't overpay for one.

Lazy R
02-19-2013, 20:40
The Ruger 10/22 WMR's just beat themselves apart. Ruger stopped even making parts for them just wanting them to all go away, the way I understand it from good sources.

bac1023
02-19-2013, 20:43
The Ruger 10/22 WMR's just beat themselves apart. Ruger stopped even making parts for them just wanting them to all go away, the way I understand it from good sources.

Could be.

I'm not really sure. :dunno:

The_Gun_Guru
02-19-2013, 21:05
I would feel the same way about that.

I own an FN FiveseveN and love it, but I wouldn't overpay for one.

bac,

you have a FiveseveN but you never got a PMR-30?

I must say, I'm a bit shocked:shocked:


TGG

bac1023
02-19-2013, 21:09
bac,

you have a FiveseveN but you never got a PMR-30?

I must say, I'm a bit shocked:shocked:


TGG

Yeah, I'll pick one up at some point. I generally don't care much for polymer rimfires.

There is a big difference between the two pistols. The FN's ballistics are similar to the 22wmr from a rifle, while the PMR is more like a 22lr from a rifle.

Rinspeed
02-19-2013, 21:33
So far, I haven't overpaid for anything during the panic and I'm not going to start now.




Same here.

CMG
02-19-2013, 21:55
The Ruger 10/22 WMR's just beat themselves apart. Ruger stopped even making parts for them just wanting them to all go away, the way I understand it from good sources.

Nonsense! No offense, but you really need some new sources!

I've been shooting this one since 1999, it has well over 2K rounds thru it and no appreciable signs of wear.

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b175/pb9x19/1022MLsim.jpg

The only issue the 10/22M had was a poorly made (stamped) extractor which caused extraction issues with some of the early guns. Ruger tried adding a second extractor when all they really needed was a quality part like the VQ Exact Edge.

The receiver is all steel, the trigger group is nearly identical to the standard 10/22 (stiffer hammer spring, different ejector), the barrel is identical except for the chamber... the bolt/firing pin/extractor is the same design as the standard 10/22, just a bit longer and heavier due to being made from Tungsten instead of steel.