Practicality of a M1 Garand? [Archive] - Glock Talk

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Restless28
02-18-2013, 12:58
I'm looking into a Garand. How hard is it to find ammo? I loved shooting my dad's.

I'm beginning to admire and desire classic rifles now, such as the Garand, Mosin, Mauser, Enfield, etc.

Is the Garand practical if ammo is scarce?

m2hmghb
02-18-2013, 13:09
The M1 needs a certain powder type to function without risking damaging the parts. The work around is to use an adjustable gas plug. Hornady, Winchester, and Federal all make ammunition compatible with the M1. It's more expensive then an AR but it's a lot of fun.

countrygun
02-18-2013, 13:10
Get the adjustable gas plug and you don't have to worry. 30-06 ammo is available widely. There are a couple of variations of the gas plug out there.

In some ways I prefer the Garand to the M-14. Of course I started on the Garand.

awpk03s
02-18-2013, 13:27
Surplus ammo from the CMP is still widely available (although now with a 2k round per year limit per person) for ~$.050/rd.

fnfalman
02-18-2013, 13:32
Get an adjustable gas plug anyway, it's cheap.

However, American Eagle brand (Federal) has M1 Garand specific load.

m2hmghb
02-18-2013, 13:34
I think Winchester white box is M1 safe, but do NOT quote me on that, call them and ask. BTW surplus from CMP is .50 per round, not .050.

CBennett
02-18-2013, 13:35
CMP ammo is good I still have around 500 rounds or so(bought 600 when I got the Garand used about 100 last year) there are a few other places that make Garand specific ammo. Right NOW I can STILL get M1 ammo if that says anything... I would also look into getting one in .308 as that round is even MORE readily available and in current use. If I ever get the parts together for a Shuffs Mini Garand its gonna be in .308...If somehow I ever "wore out" the barrel on my M1 it would get a new .308 also...

Shuffs Mini Garand:
http://shuffsparkerizing.com/services/the-mini-g/


I was thinking of getting a CMP Bolt/barrel combo and then sending that to him to do his work.

MajorD
02-18-2013, 17:22
To me the only answer to shooting a caliber that costs at least 50 cents a round is to reload- not some gas plug gizmo. M1 safe reloading data has been around for over half a century - use it get 4-5 shots to a dollar instead of one or two. A no brainer to me.
The only way to make sure you can affordably shoot as much as I do (1k plus a month) is to reload! Stocking up on components when available will keep you shooting during shortage panic buy time with no worries

awpk03s
02-18-2013, 17:52
CMP ammo is good I still have around 500 rounds or so(bought 600 when I got the Garand used about 100 last year) there are a few other places that make Garand specific ammo. Right NOW I can STILL get M1 ammo if that says anything... I would also look into getting one in .308 as that round is even MORE readily available and in current use. If I ever get the parts together for a Shuffs Mini Garand its gonna be in .308...If somehow I ever "wore out" the barrel on my M1 it would get a new .308 also...

Shuffs Mini Garand:
http://shuffsparkerizing.com/services/the-mini-g/


I was thinking of getting a CMP Bolt/barrel combo and then sending that to him to do his work.

Ordering a Field Grade will be cheaper, unless you have the parts existing to finish off the barreled receiver.

countrygun
02-18-2013, 17:55
To me the only answer to shooting a caliber that costs at least 50 cents a round is to reload- not some gas plug gizmo. M1 safe reloading data has been around for over half a century - use it get 4-5 shots to a dollar instead of one or two. A no brainer to me.
The only way to make sure you can affordably shoot as much as I do (1k plus a month) is to reload! Stocking up on components when available will keep you shooting during shortage panic buy time with no worries

Gee I never though of such an efficient solution. Very practical to suggest that someone become a reloader, but all that reloading gear and components, learn how to reload.

Yup a much simpler solution than to buy an adjustable gas plug and waste 3 minutes replacing the stock one.

Why didn't I think of that?

Maybe because the OP didn't mention reloading, it didn't pop into my mind.

faawrenchbndr
02-18-2013, 18:23
To me the only answer to shooting a caliber that costs at least 50 cents a round is to reload- not some gas plug gizmo..........


Don't knock what you do not know, it just makes you look like a troll.

Schuster's adjustable gas plug , it's a good thing.

CBennett
02-18-2013, 20:35
Ordering a Field Grade will be cheaper, unless you have the parts existing to finish off the barreled receiver.

probably right id assume just ask for a FG with the best barrel possible? cause much of the other stuff(stock, hardware) will be modded or replaced anyways and redone??

michael_b
02-18-2013, 21:22
CMP ammo is good I still have around 500 rounds or so(bought 600 when I got the Garand used about 100 last year) there are a few other places that make Garand specific ammo. Right NOW I can STILL get M1 ammo if that says anything... I would also look into getting one in .308 as that round is even MORE readily available and in current use. If I ever get the parts together for a Shuffs Mini Garand its gonna be in .308...If somehow I ever "wore out" the barrel on my M1 it would get a new .308 also...

Shuffs Mini Garand:
http://shuffsparkerizing.com/services/the-mini-g/


I was thinking of getting a CMP Bolt/barrel combo and then sending that to him to do his work.

Wow, you sound like me and my plans once I get a Garand.

CJStudent
02-18-2013, 22:23
CMP ammo is good I still have around 500 rounds or so(bought 600 when I got the Garand used about 100 last year) there are a few other places that make Garand specific ammo. Right NOW I can STILL get M1 ammo if that says anything... I would also look into getting one in .308 as that round is even MORE readily available and in current use. If I ever get the parts together for a Shuffs Mini Garand its gonna be in .308...If somehow I ever "wore out" the barrel on my M1 it would get a new .308 also...

Shuffs Mini Garand:
http://shuffsparkerizing.com/services/the-mini-g/


I was thinking of getting a CMP Bolt/barrel combo and then sending that to him to do his work.

Thanks. Now I want one of the minis with the M14 mag modification, like the display one!

countrygun
02-18-2013, 22:27
Thanks. Now I want one of the minis with the M14 mag modification, like the display one!

Save time and money, get a SOCOM 16

I have an Arlington "Tanker" conversion and it is a bit "handier " than my SOCOM because it DOESN'T have a box mag hanging down.

CJStudent
02-18-2013, 22:36
Save time and money, get a SOCOM 16

I have an Arlington "Tanker" conversion and it is a bit "handier " than my SOCOM because it DOESN'T have a box mag hanging down.

True, but I was thinking it would be something "unique" in a similar role. I've always wanted a SOCOM 16, though. Not a SOCOM II, but a SOCOM 16 just feels right.

KalashniKEV
02-18-2013, 22:38
Those Mini-G's are like an el Camino.

Same with the SOCOM-16...

ctfireman
02-18-2013, 22:42
Just curious, is 30-06 springfield considered "Garand specific"?

countrygun
02-18-2013, 22:50
Just curious, is 30-06 springfield considered "Garand specific"?

I was told by a very knowledgeable source that 30-06 ammo that is labeled "30-06 Springfield" is loaded to GI specs for the pressure curve and Garand safe. I have shot a lot of Remington 165gn that is so marked without problem over almost 30 years.

countrygun
02-18-2013, 22:53
True, but I was thinking it would be something "unique" in a similar role. I've always wanted a SOCOM 16, though. Not a SOCOM II, but a SOCOM 16 just feels right.

I love mine and it is much more accurate than some "experts" would lead you to believe. I didn't want the "II" additions either.

m2hmghb
02-19-2013, 05:53
I was told by a very knowledgeable source that 30-06 ammo that is labeled "30-06 Springfield" is loaded to GI specs for the pressure curve and Garand safe. I have shot a lot of Remington 165gn that is so marked without problem over almost 30 years.

You were told wrong. There are quite a few hot rounds that are labeled 30-06 Springfield that are not safe to shoot in the M1. 30-06 Springfield is the name of the cartridge, not the designation for a mil spec load.

Bob Hafler
02-19-2013, 08:00
Is the M1 Garand Practical? In todays times probably not as practical as some other rifles, but you'd be hard pressed to find a rifle more fun to shoot.

1gewehr
02-19-2013, 08:37
You can shoot any .30-06 ammo in a Garand and it won't blow up. but, with heavy bullets, the pressure curve may spike early and cause your long, expensive, operating rod to bend. That causes your Garand to turn into a manually-operated rifle.

The only after-market improvement for a Garand that I would endorse is the adjustable gas plug. I have not tried the synthetic stocks, but that might be an improvement as it would drop 1/2 a pound and end moisture problems.

byf43
02-19-2013, 08:40
While I dearly love my DCM M1 Garand (especially what I paid for it!), I find that I'm shooting it less and less, with each passing year.
My M1 Garand was built in November, '43, and was re-built [the last time] at Springfield Armory, in September, '67.
It was well-worth the $165.00 I paid for it!! :thumbsup:

The last time it followed me to the range, was about 2-1/2 years ago.
A can of LC-69 M2 Ball (280 rounds) followed me to the range that day, too.

Don't get me wrong. . . . it's NOT for sale. I'll NEVER sell it.
I just find that I pick something else up, when I want to spend an afternoon at the range, now.

:dunno:

Raz-n-co
02-19-2013, 09:09
I just bought my first Garand last year. I now own 3. 2 from cmp and a collector grade from a guy on armslist.

They are awesome to shoot, very little recoil, and easy to get back on target. Practical.... What do you want it for?

I bought them because I had a bunch of surplus ammo. So glad I did. You won't regret it, if you want a shooter get one from cmp. There are clubs you can join for $25 a year to meet the requirement.

Zombie Steve
02-19-2013, 09:10
To me the only answer to shooting a caliber that costs at least 50 cents a round is to reload- not some gas plug gizmo. M1 safe reloading data has been around for over half a century - use it get 4-5 shots to a dollar instead of one or two. A no brainer to me.
The only way to make sure you can affordably shoot as much as I do (1k plus a month) is to reload! Stocking up on components when available will keep you shooting during shortage panic buy time with no worries

The OP may not have asked, but this is the most practical way to stay shooting with any firearm.

While you still need to do load development for your specific rifle, .30-06 for the M1 Garand has been well mapped out for decades.

Seems daunting at first, but once you get some reloads downrange, you'll never go back.

:cowboy:

MajorD
02-19-2013, 09:12
Is the garand still practical hell yes!
But I still stand behind my reloading is the long term answer to shooting an m1 a lot.
I have been shooting m1's for over thirty years and you might like the new gas plugs- but all it does is let you shoot 2 dollar per round commercial hunting ammo after supplies of gi surplus run out. How many people can continually/ routinely afford to burn through $200 of ammo on the range ? Very very few I know. On the other hand investing in a coue hundred bucks of reloading gear and another couple hundred in carefully selected budget components will give you four to five times as much ammo now, and the ability to make more any time. With these panic buying sprees we have been seeing lots of posts a out I can't find xyz ammo anywhere!
If you are set up to reload and keep yourself stocked with powder primers and bullets you are much more self sufficient in times like these

Leigh
02-19-2013, 09:30
Availiabilty of a historic firearm that IS NO LONGER MADE? Check.
Able to re-sell and never, ever lose a dime? Check.
Genuine USGI with no import stamps (if bought thru CMP)? Check.
Mil-surp M2 ball ammo at $0.50 per round (a bargain in today's crazy market)? Check.
Delivered directly to your door with no FFL charging a transfer fee? Check.

I consider the M1 to be VERY practical!

CBennett
02-19-2013, 09:55
Those Mini-G's are like an el Camino.

Same with the SOCOM-16...

I know they are cool arent they! especially the SS with the 454! (well not a fan of the SOCOM but dont hate it either)

SJ 40
02-19-2013, 10:13
From point blank to about 1000 yards covers the effectiveness of the M 1. SJ 40

m2hmghb
02-19-2013, 11:20
You can shoot any .30-06 ammo in a Garand and it won't blow up. but, with heavy bullets, the pressure curve may spike early and cause your long, expensive, operating rod to bend. That causes your Garand to turn into a manually-operated rifle.

The only after-market improvement for a Garand that I would endorse is the adjustable gas plug. I have not tried the synthetic stocks, but that might be an improvement as it would drop 1/2 a pound and end moisture problems.

Actually it isn't just the op rod that's affected. The additional stress is transferred to the bolt and the heel of the receiver. The extra force on the bolt pushes it into the receiver harder then is normal which leads to the heel cracking or the bolt failing. The other things that can happen are the op rod being bent wrong and the op rod's engagement points becoming too worn and having to be rebuilt.

countrygun
02-19-2013, 11:48
You were told wrong. There are quite a few hot rounds that are labeled 30-06 Springfield that are not safe to shoot in the M1. 30-06 Springfield is the name of the cartridge, not the designation for a mil spec load.

I can believe that because I haven't researched the statement in 25+ years. It I far better to err on the side of caution and it isn't hard for me to believe the situation has changed. I laid in a large stock of the Remington load and everything else I have shot has been milsurp or handloads.

TrueGunNut
02-19-2013, 21:15
I love my CMP M1 garand. Definitely a hoot to shoot. It's a VERY accurate semi automatic battle rifle that reloads 8 round clips pretty fast. I'd say it isn't completely useless.

Wyoming
02-19-2013, 23:00
Get the adjustable gas plug and you don't have to worry. 30-06 ammo is available widely. There are a couple of variations of the gas plug out there.

In some ways I prefer the Garand to the M-14. Of course I started on the Garand.

You started out with the Garand! I thought you cut your teeth on a Springfield,...........Trapdoor!:rofl:

You and I friend are "seasoned" but you may have a few more season than me.

To the OP. the M1 Garand is more than a rifle. It is a legend. When you shoot one your are shooting history. Normandy, Bastion, Iwo Jima, The Battle of the Bulge and Okinawa. It is one reason we as Americans are free of evil tyranny.

Don't worry about ammo. It shoots 30-06, the most common caliber in the world and that includes the USA! Although not all loads are compatible with the gas system there are a lot of ways already listed to deal with it.

I have probalby bought my last supply of 30-06 this last summer because the expense and the supply of quality surplus has dried up. Maybe somewhere someday a shippment of good surplus may come in but I doubt it.

I bought 2000 150 grain FMJ M2 ball this fall and will load for my M1, 1903A3 and 1903 rifles. No big deal for me because I had a lot of "seasons" to acquire a lot of good brass.

If I were new to the M1 and just starting I would spend a little more and but new Hornady M1 ammo. You see the M1 is made to shoot a 150 bullet at 2,700 feet per second and the sights are calibrated for that load.

Just remember even though the M1 is older than Countrygun and me it is still a good defensive rifle and would still work if the need ever came up.:cool:

itisbruno
02-19-2013, 23:05
Great thread

WASRfan
02-20-2013, 00:12
Is the garand still practical hell yes!
<snip>

For a range toy, yes. Absolutely.

But a big No for SHTF situations in today's modern times.

This isn't Europe 1944 where you can find bandoliers of clips and parts-guns at every battlefield.

What are you left with in a post-apocalyptic US when you have no ready access to proprietary 8rd en-bloc clips? You are SOL. You have a single-shot. How many dead cops or Natl Guardsmen will have Garand "stuff" with them?

Get it for a range toy or as your "ranch gun" if you live in the open ranges, but elsewhere stick to an AR.

WarEagle32
02-20-2013, 00:32
A CMP Garand is the next rifle on my menu. Luckily, I just live a bit over an hour from Anniston AL, so I shall pick out my own. However, I don't know what grade to get, that will probably be a game time decision!

countrygun
02-20-2013, 06:09
For a range toy, yes. Absolutely.

But a big No for SHTF situations in today's modern times.

This isn't Europe 1944 where you can find bandoliers of clips and parts-guns at every battlefield.

What are you left with in a post-apocalyptic US when you have no ready access to proprietary 8rd en-bloc clips? You are SOL. You have a single-shot. How many dead cops or Natl Guardsmen will have Garand "stuff" with them?

Get it for a range toy or as your "ranch gun" if you live in the open ranges, but elsewhere stick to an AR.


:rofl::rofl::rofl:


Ok Rambo. I have a couple of AKs an scads of ammo and mags. but I have owned one of my M-1s for DECADES do you have any idea how many clips ,ammo belts ammo and etc I have piled up? Not to mention two more M-1s.

Let me clue you in on something. I am not part of a "Fire team" I do not have to lay own suppressive fire so the rest of my unit can maneuver. I work alone. A big part of my planning is not getting in firefights with hordes of zombies.

I have my AKs and my SOCOM but really, if I am facing odds greater than I can handle with the M-1 Those re gonna have to be some tough mofo zombies or whatever cuz cover turns into just concealment out to at least 400 yds without my having to make and adjustment.

Do you really plan on, or think you all on your own there are going to stand up to odds of twenty to one?????

Restless28
02-20-2013, 06:33
For a range toy, yes. Absolutely.

But a big No for SHTF situations in today's modern times.

This isn't Europe 1944 where you can find bandoliers of clips and parts-guns at every battlefield.

What are you left with in a post-apocalyptic US when you have no ready access to proprietary 8rd en-bloc clips? You are SOL. You have a single-shot. How many dead cops or Natl Guardsmen will have Garand "stuff" with them?

Get it for a range toy or as your "ranch gun" if you live in the open ranges, but elsewhere stick to an AR.

I hate to break it to you, but in the real world, the military has superior technology and manpower. Red Dawn is a fantasy. I'm not preparing for battle. I'm preparing for fun.

Leigh
02-20-2013, 07:59
For a range toy, yes. Absolutely.

Hardly.
:upeyes:

byf43
02-20-2013, 08:11
I hate to break it to you, but in the real world, the military has superior technology and manpower. Red Dawn is a fantasy. I'm not preparing for battle. I'm preparing for fun.

And there you have it.

As Wyoming said:
...the M1 Garand is more than a rifle. It is a legend. When you shoot one your are shooting history. Normandy, Bastogne, Iwo Jima, The Battle of the Bulge and Okinawa. It is one reason we as Americans are free of evil tyranny.



For those reasons, alone. . . . . BUY IT!!!!!!!Buy it, NOW!!!!!!!!

Brucev
02-20-2013, 10:05
I'm looking into a Garand. How hard is it to find ammo? I loved shooting my dad's.

I'm beginning to admire and desire classic rifles now, such as the Garand, Mosin, Mauser, Enfield, etc.

Is the Garand practical if ammo is scarce?

Get cracking and go over to the CMP. Buy a service grade. If you have the coin available, buy a select grade. Buy some of that delightful HXP M-2 ball and head for the range. Have fun!

As to ammo being available, it's not hard to find at all. The gas system of a M-1 Garand is set up for standard M-2 ball for a port pressure of about 8,000 lbs. So most commercial hunting ammo is not suitable. But that is not big problem. Simply remove the gas screw off the gas cylinder and install a Schuster or McCain gas screw. Make follow the directions for use and you'll have no problems at all. Either will allow you to use any commercial .30-06 load on the market in your M-1 Garand.

Handloading is the very best way to go for any significant amount of high-power rifle shooting either for just plinking, target shooting or hunting. There are any number of excellent powders well-suited for use in the M-1 Garand. There are plenty of sources of information as to starting loads, bullets, etc. Loading for the M-1 Garand is no different than handloading for any other rifle. You start with a starting load and use common sense as you work up watching for normal pressure indicators, etc.

KalashniKEV
02-20-2013, 10:40
I know they are cool arent they! especially the SS with the 454! (well not a fan of the SOCOM but dont hate it either)

I don't hate any of them, I just don't get it.

A "Mini-G" in 30-06 would be perfect... if it had a 24" barrel.

;)

Zombie Steve
02-20-2013, 10:42
For a range toy, yes. Absolutely.

But a big No for SHTF situations in today's modern times.

This isn't Europe 1944 where you can find bandoliers of clips and parts-guns at every battlefield.

What are you left with in a post-apocalyptic US when you have no ready access to proprietary 8rd en-bloc clips? You are SOL. You have a single-shot. How many dead cops or Natl Guardsmen will have Garand "stuff" with them?

Get it for a range toy or as your "ranch gun" if you live in the open ranges, but elsewhere stick to an AR.

Well, it's entirely possible that someone with a Garand that knows how to use it could get a couple good hits at 800 yards, take out his tactical spork, eat some TEOTWAWKI rations, walk over and take your WASR.

:whistling:

CJStudent
02-20-2013, 10:42
I love mine and it is much more accurate than some "experts" would lead you to believe. I didn't want the "II" additions either.

The fun part is trying to find one at a decent price right now!

1gewehr
02-20-2013, 11:01
For a range toy, yes. Absolutely.

But a big No for SHTF situations in today's modern times.

This isn't Europe 1944 where you can find bandoliers of clips and parts-guns at every battlefield.

What are you left with in a post-apocalyptic US when you have no ready access to proprietary 8rd en-bloc clips? You are SOL. You have a single-shot. How many dead cops or Natl Guardsmen will have Garand "stuff" with them?

Get it for a range toy or as your "ranch gun" if you live in the open ranges, but elsewhere stick to an AR.

Walmart still has .30-06 in stock. It's still a very popular caliber. Getting ammo is not likely to be the issue. As for clips, they are inexpensive, reloadable, and don't travel far when ejected. Packing extra clips takes very little extra bulk or weight.

The Garand is a reliable, accurate, and powerful rifle. It lets the shooter lie very close to the ground, turns cover into concealment, and won't snag on vegetation when low-crawling. And the person armed with one is unlikely to use it for suppressive fire, but will make his shots count. I would not feel poorly armed if it's all I had.

m2hmghb
02-20-2013, 12:22
Walmart still has .30-06 in stock. It's still a very popular caliber. Getting ammo is not likely to be the issue. As for clips, they are inexpensive, reloadable, and don't travel far when ejected. Packing extra clips takes very little extra bulk or weight.

The Garand is a reliable, accurate, and powerful rifle. It lets the shooter lie very close to the ground, turns cover into concealment, and won't snag on vegetation when low-crawling. And the person armed with one is unlikely to use it for suppressive fire, but will make his shots count. I would not feel poorly armed if it's all I had.

I have to correct you on this, empty clips are very bulky. 6 empty clips are about the same size as a 20 or 30 round mag for an AR. They are extremely lightweight however.

countrygun
02-20-2013, 13:11
I have to correct you on this, empty clips are very bulky. 6 empty clips are about the same size as a 20 or 30 round mag for an AR. They are extremely lightweight however.

Funny, by cross locking empty clips, six of mine are a little smaller than a 20 rd AR mag and 6 M-1clips represent 48 rds of capacity

beaversgs
02-20-2013, 14:03
Garands are fun, but I love the Socom I as well. For the prices I'm seeing on the Socom I right now, I think it'd be cheaper to buy the Garand and have it converted. I don't reload and the cost of ammo has always been one of the major factors that has lead me to stick with my AR. However I did recently buy a Mini 30 with a Cylde Armory Socom stock:)

GregB

countrygun
02-20-2013, 14:34
Variations.

Top: "Glass bedded and "Matched out" w/stock sights

Middle CMP "WWII Memorial fund" rack grade

Bottom: Arlington Arms "T-26 "tanker" modification.


http://i648.photobucket.com/albums/uu208/countrygun/IM002743.jpg

WT
02-20-2013, 18:47
countrygun - nice photo.

Makes me want to take my Garands out of the vault and rub some linseed oil into the stocks.

Warp
02-20-2013, 18:51
Get a Garand.

http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g105/austin3161324/Firearms/20130202_205554_zpsf8c9b165.jpg

CBennett
02-20-2013, 19:37
I hate to break it to you, but in the real world, the military has superior technology and manpower. Red Dawn is a fantasy. I'm not preparing for battle. I'm preparing for fun.

What? you mean you have about as much heavy combat in your parts as I do in mine...I got the same deal when I got my AK74..was told I should have got the 47 cause id be able to find more ammo and mags and parts...I was thinking...where..at the range..do people just leave these things laying around the range for others to have/keep/pickup...I just wanted a fun RANGE gun lol./ they were acting as if I needed a bail out bag, 20 mags, and be ready for heavy combat and maybe zombies or hordes of Govt agents attacking lol.

wrenrj1
02-20-2013, 19:50
Ammo for the M1 Garand is on the shelf, you just need to look for it. It will specifically state that it's for the M1 Garand.

Wyoming
02-20-2013, 21:16
Variations.

Top: "Glass bedded and "Matched out" w/stock sights

Middle CMP "WWII Memorial fund" rack grade

Bottom: Arlington Arms "T-26 "tanker" modification.


http://i648.photobucket.com/albums/uu208/countrygun/IM002743.jpg

Thanks Countrygun for photo.:cool:

Zombie Steve
02-20-2013, 22:02
Get a Garand.

http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g105/austin3161324/Firearms/20130202_205554_zpsf8c9b165.jpg

GarandCat is unsure about the scout scope on the Garand, but is really pretty relaxed about the whole situation.

WASRfan
02-21-2013, 01:01
Jeebus H in a handbasket guys! Cut me some slack I give up!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I like my 3 Garands as much as the next guy, maybe more - but when the OP said: "Is the Garand practical if ammo is scarce?" - - I interpreted that to be is it PRACTICAL as often used in today's vernacular - as in SHTF practical..

My bad! Mea Culpa!! :wow:

So again; for the non-SHTF purposes, why not; if you have the ducats to find and buy 30.06, and the adjustable gas-plug to be safe with whatever 30.06 you can find/afford, and the en-blocs - a Garand is far more practical than a MAS49 or an FN49 or Hakim or an SMLE these days.

There are tons of Garand parts and Garandsmiths around if ever needed. Lot's of fun at the range.

Anymore it is becoming what can you find?, can afford to shoot?, can afford to repair? - that leads to "practicality" of a choice.

But - a Garand for the proverbial Internet SHTF practical?

Not now, at least not for long - unless you are running/bunkered down with a rifle squad or in an inaccessible, defensive position with great fields of fire.
If so, great for you as most of us tend to think in terms of LMO's hiding with wife and kids in the 'burbs...

To those that scoff at an AR for SHTF - or any of the other more practical, ammo-and-parts-easily-found-guns around (and there are as many as there are opinions and expected uses);

Then OP:

Start accumulating en-blocs - maybe even a few SLED or the 2-round clips - used for those instances when you don't have a full 8rds to stuff in the 8rd en-blocs - so the gun operates.

Get the adjustable gas plug for when you have to use whatever 30.06 you can scrounge - so the gun will continue to operate.

While bunkered down in your "parapets" - with a heavy rifle, heavy ammo, and clipped-ammo - you'll have the advantage of the long shots and greater penetration thru cover. But...

Be sure to have practiced at least a bit in some in-house, room-room manuevers with an almost 4foot rifle, just in case... in case you can no longer stay down after being out-manuevered by knuckleheads with ARs and 10/22s and Win94s and maybe even WASRs.

And make sure you have some help from wife/kids so as to lug all that 30.06 around with you, and to retrieve and reload the en-blocs that you need to keep track of as you shoot n scoot once forced out of the hidey-hole and on the run.

ak103k
02-21-2013, 10:19
Jeebus H in a handbasket guys! Cut me some slack I give up!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I like my 3 Garands as much as the next guy, maybe more - but when the OP said: "Is the Garand practical if ammo is scarce?" - - I interpreted that to be is it PRACTICAL as often used in today's vernacular - as in SHTF practical..

My bad! Mea Culpa!! :wow:

So again; for the non-SHTF purposes, why not; if you have the ducats to find and buy 30.06, and the adjustable gas-plug to be safe with whatever 30.06 you can find/afford, and the en-blocs - a Garand is far more practical than a MAS49 or an FN49 or Hakim or an SMLE these days.

There are tons of Garand parts and Garandsmiths around if ever needed. Lot's of fun at the range.

Anymore it is becoming what can you find?, can afford to shoot?, can afford to repair? - that leads to "practicality" of a choice.

But - a Garand for the proverbial Internet SHTF practical?

Not now, at least not for long - unless you are running/bunkered down with a rifle squad or in an inaccessible, defensive position with great fields of fire.
If so, great for you as most of us tend to think in terms of LMO's hiding with wife and kids in the 'burbs...

To those that scoff at an AR for SHTF - or any of the other more practical, ammo-and-parts-easily-found-guns around (and there are as many as there are opinions and expected uses);

Then OP:

Start accumulating en-blocs - maybe even a few SLED or the 2-round clips - used for those instances when you don't have a full 8rds to stuff in the 8rd en-blocs - so the gun operates.

Get the adjustable gas plug for when you have to use whatever 30.06 you can scrounge - so the gun will continue to operate.

While bunkered down in your "parapets" - with a heavy rifle, heavy ammo, and clipped-ammo - you'll have the advantage of the long shots and greater penetration thru cover. But...

Be sure to have practiced at least a bit in some in-house, room-room manuevers with an almost 4foot rifle, just in case... in case you can no longer stay down after being out-manuevered by knuckleheads with ARs and 10/22s and Win94s and maybe even WASRs.

And make sure you have some help from wife/kids so as to lug all that 30.06 around with you, and to retrieve and reload the en-blocs that you need to keep track of as you shoot n scoot once forced out of the hidey-hole and on the run.
There ya go. :)

Ive been shooting M1's since the early 60's. Recreationally, and in competition. Great guns if you understand them. They can get scary if you dont, and/or get cocky with them.

Back in the 50's-80's, you could pretty much find clipped surplus everywhere, and at reasonable prices. The CMP even gave you ammo to shoot for free. These days, I dont think you can say reasonable and 30-06 in the same sentence, can you?

The M1's biggest downfall is its clip. If you dont have a clip, you have a single shot rifle. To make matters worse, the rifle chucks the empty clips everywhere but in your pocket. No big deal for a target shooter, a real big deal if youre playing army, and running around without a resupply.

Lets also not forget that from a capacity standpoint, the M1 requires 4 reloads to match any of the guns with a 30 round mag.

Nostalgia is fun, but reality tends to slap you in the face, when your faced with reality. ;)

Scary stuff....

Learn how to load one properly.

Absolutely get a SLED if you plan on single loading.

Never single load by allowing to bolt to go forward on its own, on a chambered round.

You had better learn how to reload for one properly, if you do reload. Theres a bit more to it than just "reloading 30-06".

Dont shoot anyone else reloads in your M1. Ever.

Probably best not to shoot 30-06 and .308 M1's together at the same time, especially if you have shooters switching things up.

As I said at the start, M1's great guns, and a lot of fun to shoot. These days, they are more toys than anything else. If it was all I had, Id be happy, but if it were bad times, Id soon have something better, at the very first possible opportunity.

Warp
02-21-2013, 10:49
But - a Garand for the proverbial Internet SHTF practical?

Not now, at least not for long - unless you are running/bunkered down with a rifle squad or in an inaccessible, defensive position with great fields of fire.
If so, great for you as most of us tend to think in terms of LMO's hiding with wife and kids in the 'burbs...

To those that scoff at an AR for SHTF - or any of the other more practical, ammo-and-parts-easily-found-guns around (and there are as many as there are opinions and expected uses);


Sure it is.

But then some of us don't subscribe to the theory that there are just going to be rifles, mags, and ammo for AR's and AK's lying around waiting to be picked up. Unless I'm playing Fallout 3, that is. Then I'm looking for the Chinese AK47/Assault Rifle.

Would my Garand be my first choice for the proverbial SHTF? Probably not. But there's nothing particularly wrong with somebody else deciding on a Garand. You could do a lot worse, I think.


BTW: Calling a Garand nothing more than a toy...and with such veracity...seems like the kind of thing a troll would do. JMO

Warp
02-21-2013, 10:56
Lets also not forget that from a capacity standpoint, the M1 requires 4 reloads to match any of the guns with a 30 round mag.


Incorrect. Technically it would require 3 reloads, and would, with 3 reloads, surpass the capacity of the 30 round mag.

Start with 8.
Reload one time = 16
Reload a second time = 24
Reload a third time = 32

Also, considering that the Garand is a .30 'battle rifle' a more apt comparison would be a rifle with a 20 round magazine. So that would be 2 reloads. Half as many as you claimed. ;)


The M1's biggest downfall is its clip. If you dont have a clip, you have a single shot rifle.

Without a magazine, all those other rifles are single shots. What's the difference? Well, other than the empty en bloc clips much lighter and smaller than empty magazines.

The clip is a downfall because it only holds 8 rounds where a modern equivalent holds 20, it is slow to do a 'tactical' reload, and it does not lend itself to being reloaded with your left/support hand only in a quick and efficient method the way a bottom feeder can.

Is the Garand the best choice out there for most people for a defensive or SHTF rifle? Probably not. But it isn't some useless relic either.

What does any of this have to do with this thread? I don't know, I guess we'll have to ask the WASR

mgs
02-21-2013, 11:10
While I dearly love my DCM M1 Garand (especially what I paid for it!), I find that I'm shooting it less and less, with each passing year.
My M1 Garand was built in November, '43, and was re-built [the last time] at Springfield Armory, in September, '67.
It was well-worth the $165.00 I paid for it!! :thumbsup:

The last time it followed me to the range, was about 2-1/2 years ago.
A can of LC-69 M2 Ball (280 rounds) followed me to the range that day, too.

Don't get me wrong. . . . it's NOT for sale. I'll NEVER sell it.
I just find that I pick something else up, when I want to spend an afternoon at the range, now.

:dunno:

I have to agree....mine was $165.00

Leigh
02-21-2013, 11:10
At about $0.50 a round for HXP M2 ball from CMP, it is petty much a bargain these days.

fnfalman
02-21-2013, 11:17
Makes me want to take my Garands out of the vault and rub some linseed oil into the stocks.

I polish my wood a lot too.

fnfalman
02-21-2013, 11:22
To those that scoff at an AR for SHTF - or any of the other more practical, ammo-and-parts-easily-found-guns around (and there are as many as there are opinions and expected uses);

Some of us prefer guns that don't break down so easily and require a large quantities of spare parts to keep running.

Be sure to have practiced at least a bit in some in-house, room-room manuevers with an almost 4foot rifle, just in case... in case you can no longer stay down after being out-manuevered by knuckleheads with ARs and 10/22s and Win94s and maybe even WASRs.

So, by switching to an AR or AK, you don't have to train and practice?

And make sure you have some help from wife/kids so as to lug all that 30.06 around with you, and to retrieve and reload the en-blocs that you need to keep track of as you shoot n scoot once forced out of the hidey-hole and on the run.

Aimed fire versus spray n pray then you don't have to worry about carrying five thousand rounds of ammo with you all the time.

ak103k
02-21-2013, 12:37
BTW: Calling a Garand nothing more than a toy...and with such veracity...seems like the kind of thing a troll would do. JMO
I currently have two, one in 30-06, the other in .308, and thats their status here, "toy".

Ive also qualified expert with both, and a couple of oithers, so I have "played" with them some. :whistling:

I have played with another "gun", and have a "distinguished expert badge" with it, but do you really want to go there? :tongueout: :rofl:


Incorrect. Technically it would require 3 reloads, and would, with 3 reloads, surpass the capacity of the 30 round mag.

Start with 8.
Reload one time = 16
Reload a second time = 24
Reload a third time = 32
I start with 30. You start with 8. You need to insert 4 clips to get to 30 rounds. I start with 1 mag and 30 rounds.

Im also still shooting while you fumble for another clip with each reload.

Ill give you those extra two rounds at the end for effort though. :supergrin:

Also, considering that the Garand is a .30 'battle rifle' a more apt comparison would be a rifle with a 20 round magazine. So that would be 2 reloads. Half as many as you claimed.
Every rifle carried into battle, is a "battle rifle". Are you willing to wander around at 500 yards with any of them shooting at you? Didnt think so.

Without a magazine, all those other rifles are single shots. What's the difference? Well, other than the empty en bloc clips much lighter and smaller than empty magazines.
The difference is, my mags stay in the gun until I take them out, and stuff them in my shirt. The M1 chucks the clip, where? Oh yea, WTFK's?

Empty mags take up no more space than loaded one. The main difference is, I still have the mags. Where are your clips?


I have to agree....mine was $165.00
So were the first two we actually bought.

The one that blew up they replaced with a brand spanking new H&R, I think to just get me out of their hair. (that was a big deal back in the 80's too, when they were just passing out the beaters for $165)

I polish my wood a lot too.
I think I addressed that issue with my medal. :)

Aimed fire versus spray n pray then you don't have to worry about carrying five thousand rounds of ammo with you all the time.
Magazine capacity has nothing to do with aimed fire, or lack of it. All it does, is allow you to put "aimed fire" on target longer without a reload.

It also allows you a little leeway, when "realistic" shooting and conditions, might change the results you get, when shooting while moving and at fleeting targets, moving in bounds on you, while their friends are shooting at you all the while, and your concentration isnt quite what it is at the national matches.

So, by switching to an AR or AK, you don't have to train and practice?
But of course you do.

Some of us prefer guns that don't break down so easily and require a large quantities of spare parts to keep running.
Hmmm, if you had been holding my M1 in your shoulder when it cut loose, you wouldnt be typing today.

Nor would I if I had. The bolt blew the rear of the receiver off at the serial number, and a good portion of the stock off behind it, all under my arm as I was reloading.

Oh, the gun was done to, no fixie.

I have a screaming in my ears, and a pretty "L" shaped scar in the palm of my right hand from the op rod handle ripping it open, to remind me of the fun though. Wanna see it? Its really cool. :whistling:

byf43
02-21-2013, 12:50
The one that blew up they replaced with a brand spanking new H&R, I think to just get me out of their hair. (that was a big deal back in the 80's too, when they were just passing out the beaters for $165)



^^^ Exactly!

Back during 'the days' of the DCM, it was basically, 'you got what the people pulled off the shelf and shipped'.
"Luck of the Draw!"

Just from my club - One guy got a really beat-up Springer. One guy got a NM Springer. One got a Winny that was so-so.
Another guy got a really nice HR!
I got a Springer that the lady at the Post Office, dropped the box twice, carrying it from the back, to me, at the counter!!!
(Dented the crap out of the front and rear/upper handguard! Actually split the rear/upper handguard.)

Lt. Col. Rose and the DCM made it 'good', though.
Col. Oliver didn't give a rat's behind, about any of it. (He was on his way out-the-door.)

During those days, you got "One per person, per lifetime."

Old School
02-21-2013, 12:58
Heading to the range with a 1911 and a Garand with the smell of Hoppes 9 in the air...that's an awesome day. Practical and fun, yes.

posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire (http://www.outdoorhub.com/mobile/)

fnfalman
02-21-2013, 13:06
I currently have two, one in 30-06, the other in .308, and thats their status here, "toy".

All my guns are "toys". I'm not a professional whose employment requires the use of firearms.

Every rifle carried into battle, is a "battle rifle".

Very true. I wonder who were the morons back in the 1980s that came up with the definitions of battle rifles/assault rifles?

[Empty mags take up no more space than loaded one. The main difference is, I still have the mags. Where are your clips?


Assuming that you're keeping the mags. Plenty of "gunfighters" advocate that mags are disposable.


Magazine capacity has nothing to do with aimed fire, or lack of it. All it does, is allow you to put "aimed fire" on target longer without a reload.

While that may be true in theory, in practice people put false confidence in the higher capacity and tend to blaze away more.

It also allows you a little leeway, when "realistic" shooting and conditions, might change the results you get, when shooting while moving and at fleeting targets, moving in bounds on you, while their friends are shooting at you all the while, and your concentration isnt quite what it is at the national matches.

Then don't shoot until you're reasonably sure. How on earth did the old timers do fire and maneuvers and close combat with bolt action rifles?

countrygun
02-21-2013, 13:29
And here we have an example of the polemic nature that has been inculcated at every level of our society.

There are advantages and disadvantages to all firearms choices, one could point out that Garand clips are less susceptible to the damage that could put a box magazine out of commission. One might even point out that, for n individual the Garand clip is far more economical than, say, an m-14 magazine. I haven't had to buy Garand clips as a separate item since they were .75 ea in lots o 100. but even if they are $2.00 apiece, the best deal I got on "W" marked m-14 mags was $22.00 (for a 20 rd mag) That money would buy 88 rds of capacity for the M-1 @$2.00 ea. I don't figure I would be terribly worried about saving every one if Spent as much money on them as I would on m-14 mags .

(BTW, last I checked M-1clips were gong around $1.50 per in small bulk, but $2.00 made the math easier)

But all of that aside, it is a sign of the times we seem to be living in that there is so little respect for the choices of another. We seem to have to shore up our own confidence by proclaiming "I have the best choice", when in act, anyone who is worth their salt knows that whatever rifle it is, it is the man behind it that makes it work.

I have had ARs (gone, replaced by the mini14) I have several AKs, M-1 carbines, Garands SKS, and Socom 16.
Each of the WILL do, if I work to their capabilities and shape my tactics around those capabilities.

Face it, if you have to do "Room to room" clearing solo against larger numbers with just your battle rifle, you have seriously effed up.

I can ask someone who has that as plan "well, can you take and enemy out at 400+yards with one shot from your AK?

Remember something that wise men have know for a long time: Make your enemy deal with your tactics, don't fight by his rules.


See, they all have strengths and weaknesses, which one you choose depends on your strengths and weaknesses. Respect the other persons choices because you don't have to include him in your fantasy and he doesn't have to make room in his foxhole for you.

ak103k
02-21-2013, 13:42
All my guns are "toys". I'm not a professional whose employment requires the use of firearms.
Mine are to for the most part, although the Glocks in my holsters arent "toys", until I take them out of their holsters, and put the "toys" in the safe in their place during their usual rotation.

Very true. I wonder who were the morons back in the 1980s that came up with the definitions of battle rifles/assault rifles?
The "mines bigger than yours crowd" down at the bar, while I was over at their house with my "nub". :)

Assuming that you're keeping the mags. Plenty of "gunfighters" advocate that mags are disposable.
I suppose that all depends on how and if your have resupply. I always stuff them in my shirt, or sometimes use a dump bag.

While that may be true in theory, in practice people put false confidence in the higher capacity and tend to blaze away more.
Thats simply a training and/or lack of experience issue. Training and practice usually takes care of that.

Its also not just a high cap issue. Watch shooters during the rapid fire string in a HP or military rifle match, and you can tell whos been at it awhile. The inexperienced shooters are usually well done before the whistle. The more experienced shooters are usually firing that last round as the whistle blows.

Then don't shoot until you're reasonably sure. How on earth did the old timers do fire and maneuvers and close combat with bolt action rifles?
They had big pointy things on the ends of their rifles. :)

ak103k
02-21-2013, 14:07
There are advantages and disadvantages to all firearms choices,
Absolutely. I just think you have to be realistic in your assessment of your needs. It helps to have the experience to make those assessments too.

For me, the M1 just doesnt give me the options the AR's or AK's do. Even between them, the AR usually wins out.

We seem to have to shore up our own confidence by proclaiming "I have the best choice", when in act, anyone who is worth their salt knows that whatever rifle it is, it is the man behind it that makes it work.
That right there pretty much sums it all up.

It also helps to have experience with all, or at least as many of them as possible, to make an intelligent and realistic choice.

Some really do give you more of an advantage overall, if youre capable of taking advantage. Having the biggest and baddest doenst mean squat, if you cant work it.

Most people will tell you its the guns fault when they cant shoot it, when the truth is, they are the weak link, and cant shoot up to the gun.

I haven't had to buy Garand clips as a separate item since they were .75 ea in lots o 100.
Ive never bought a one, and I have boxes of them. :)

As I said earlier, back when the M1 was closer to being issue, and actually in some cases, still was, clipped ammo for them was everywhere, cheap, and often free. Uncle Sam gave me all I could stuff in mine, then I went out and bought and reloaded more when he dried up. :)

Face it, if you have to do "Room to room" clearing solo against larger numbers with just your battle rifle, you have seriously effed up.
True, but now you know, make the choice. It will add to, and get stored in your overall knowledge base. ;)

I can ask someone who has that as plan "well, can you take and enemy out at 400+yards with one shot from your AK?
I dont think that would be to much of a reach. Might not get them with the first shot, but Ill get there.

This was 200 with a "crappy" SAR using its irons from a cross legged sitting position. It holds out at 300, and while I havent shot it at 400, I think it would probably hold out.
http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47b7d700b3127ccec27ff9e8590e00000010O00CYuWbdo5bsQe3nwk/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00107947390120070921151645922.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/

Remember something that wise men have know for a long time: Make your enemy deal with your tactics, don't fight by his rules.
Yea boy!

Pay attention here. :)

Warp
02-21-2013, 15:29
But all of that aside, it is a sign of the times we seem to be living in that there is so little respect for the choices of another. We seem to have to shore up our own confidence by proclaiming "I have the best choice", when in act, anyone who is worth their salt knows that whatever rifle it is, it is the man behind it that makes it work.

I agree.

Too many people make a choice on what they think is best for them, and then berate people who suggest that maybe another option might make sense for somebody else.

And you can STILL buy a very nice M1 Garand for $625, and ammo for $.55. That's a pretty damn good deal for a very nice, and capable, rifle.

Warp
02-21-2013, 15:35
I

I start with 30. You start with 8. You need to insert 4 clips to get to 30 rounds. I start with 1 mag and 30 rounds.


The assumption is that the M1 starts with 8 rounds loaded, which leaves 3 clips to insert to get to 32. Or 2 to insert to surpass the 20 rounds a magazine fed .30 rifle likely holds.

But yeah...the .22 bullets don't take up as much space as the .30's do.

Still not sure why the clip vs magazine argument is comparing .30 rifle cartridges with .22 intermediate cartridges. Seems kinda, I don't know, apples to oranges.

countrygun
02-21-2013, 16:03
This would be a good place to share a little bit of history that my Father passed on to me from his experiences in WWII. Actually the stories come from after the war when he was "Chosen to volunteer" as part of the occupation, primarily trying to round up members of the SS and other undesirables to face justice.

Dad would tell me these things to give me a personal insight to "The World at War" as we watched.

"One day we were on a road block checking all potential folks for the tattoo that they were bright enough to give all the members of the SS. Made the job easy. We were on a little rise in the road and a car stopped about 300 yards short and the passenger door opened and a pretty good sized guy bailed out and started hotfooting across the field towards the woods."

"Did you catch him?" I naively asked.

"Didn't have to, I still had my M-1"

When they moved into the cities they Army insulted my Father by taking his beloved M-1 and issuing him an M-3 "grease gun" .

"One evening we were in this little town and there were a bunch of German teenagers taunting us as we were going from house to house. I got tired of it and tipped the Greasegun up and let loose burst. As luck would have it I hit a telephone line that must have been under a lot of tension because it snapped down right through the group of kids, lashing a couple of them pretty good. Only use I ever had for that piece of junk"

Just thought I'd share that :wavey:

fnfalman
02-21-2013, 17:24
The Grease Gun was still issued to armored personnel way into the 1980s.

m2hmghb
02-21-2013, 17:54
The Grease Gun was still issued to armored personnel way into the 1980s.

I think it was still in guard use until the 90s. They had to wiat for the M4 to be completely adopted IIRC.

wrenrj1
02-21-2013, 19:36
I think it was still in guard use until the 90s. They had to wiat for the M4 to be completely adopted IIRC.

I'd concur with this statement. I was a Medical PSG in an Armored/Air Cav. unit in the NE ARNG. I retired in 2002 and the M4 was not there at that point in my unit anyway.

WASRfan
02-22-2013, 01:24
<snip>

So, by switching to an AR or AK, you don't have to train and practice?



Not what I said.

I said be sure to train and practice in CQB manuevers with a long, heavy Garand, vs. a shorter CAR-15 or AK or any other carbine-sized long arm.

There was a reason ALL GIs of ALL armies dreaded going house-house in WWII - Garand, K98, Mosin, SMLE, Arisaka - unless it was grenade first, SMG burst second.

You and Warp sure are set on picking fights with anyone that differs.

Like I said Garands are great - get one.
Especially since they seem to be running out of cheap grades - after letting folks buy 10 a year...

countrygun
02-22-2013, 01:34
Not what I said.

I said be sure to train and practice in CQB manuevers with a long, heavy Garand, vs. a shorter CAR-15 or AK or any other carbine-sized long arm.

There was a reason ALL GIs of ALL armies dreaded going house-house in WWII - Garand, K98, Mosin, SMLE, Arisaka - unless it was grenade first, SMG burst second.

You and Warp sure are set on picking fights with anyone that differs.

Like I said Garands are great - get one.
Especially since they seem to be running out of cheap grades - after letting folks buy 10 a year...


When you come out of the gate saying something as ignorant and narrow minded as.

"But a big No for SHTF situations in today's modern times."


You can pretty much expect a negative response.

It's funny, the Garand fans don't seem to feel a need to jump into AR and AK threads to tell people they need a Garand instead. Don't often even see any MBR fan (FN, M-14, AR 10 etc) feel a need to do that.

It's always the small caliber/cartridge folks that seem to have to do it.



:whistling:

Restless28
02-22-2013, 05:45
Not what I said.

I said be sure to train and practice in CQB manuevers with a long, heavy Garand, vs. a shorter CAR-15 or AK or any other carbine-sized long arm.

There was a reason ALL GIs of ALL armies dreaded going house-house in WWII - Garand, K98, Mosin, SMLE, Arisaka - unless it was grenade first, SMG burst second.

You and Warp sure are set on picking fights with anyone that differs.

Like I said Garands are great - get one.
Especially since they seem to be running out of cheap grades - after letting folks buy 10 a year...

Like someone else said, I'm not a professional soldier, as are most of the people here. The CQB/SHTF/Red Dawn stuff is fantasy. While I don't care what guns people choose to own, saying that one chooses it based on "combat" is ridiculous.

ak103k
02-22-2013, 07:21
Like someone else said, I'm not a professional soldier, as are most of the people here. The CQB/SHTF/Red Dawn stuff is fantasy. While I don't care what guns people choose to own, saying that one chooses it based on "combat" is ridiculous.
I agree to point, but in most of these type threads, its the .30 caliber lovers who start throwing around things like "battle rifle", "poodle shooter" and such, and of course, they all seem to want to tell you they can shoot "people" at 600 yards and beyond, and youre off and running with what you got going on here.

But your right, it all gets silly after awhile. I think a lot of it boils down to just what people have, or prefer, more than anythng else. A lot of people can only afford what they have, and since its all they have, its the best. Look at all the SKS lovers out there, and what they can do to and with them. ;)

I think if youre realistic, you get at least one "good" example of each type, if you can swing it, and live with it for awhile and actually figure it out. Its the only way to actually know whats what with what, to be able to make any kind of intelligent decision, thats based in fact.

As countrygun said earlier, its not the gun, as much as it is the person using it. People who can shoot, can usually shoot pretty much anything reasonably well. I think youre going to find too, that if they learned to shoot beyond "bulls eye", they are also going to have a better idea as what to choose, when it comes down to making an unwanted, but "realistic" choice.

Then again, probably not. :whistling:

I like pork. :cool:

mgs
02-22-2013, 07:32
The M1/M14 was a Rifleman's Rifle. The Thompson SMG was the AR/AK of the 30's. Yes the AR is more accurate at longer ranges but it's not a 30-06. I own them all and they all have a purpose. My Dad was in Army Artillery in Korea and had both. When the enemy tried to over run them, the Thompson was the weapon of choice. When they were 100yds or out farther, the M1 shined. Running a Tommy Gun just puts a smile on my face ear to ear. They love cast bullets and just purrrrr.

Warp
02-22-2013, 13:47
I agree to point, but in most of these type threads, its the .30 caliber lovers who start throwing around things like "battle rifle", "poodle shooter" and such, and of course, they all seem to want to tell you they can shoot "people" at 600 yards and beyond, and youre off and running with what you got going on here.


Please, please show me where, in this thread, anybody said anything that even remotely resembles this.

I'll wait.

Warp
02-22-2013, 13:54
You and Warp sure are set on picking fights with anyone that differs.


You seem to be confused.

Here, I will refresh your memory regarding what I have said regarding differing choices...edited down to make it shorter and more readable:



Would my Garand be my first choice for the proverbial SHTF? Probably not. But there's nothing particularly wrong with somebody else deciding on a Garand. You could do a lot worse, I think.



Too many people make a choice on what they think is best for them, and then berate people who suggest that maybe another option might make sense for somebody else.

And you can STILL buy a very nice M1 Garand for $625, and ammo for $.55. That's a pretty damn good deal for a very nice, and capable, rifle.



Is the Garand the best choice out there for most people for a defensive or SHTF rifle? Probably not. But it isn't some useless relic either.



So before you go on another ad hominem warpath of insults against a straw man, I'll just come right out and say that in the EXTREMELY UNLIKELY event of a SHTF the likes of which you keep talking about, this would be my first choice:

http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g105/austin3161324/Firearms/20121208_210639_zpse5046b0a.jpg



But I'm not hard headed and single minded enough to tell other people that a Garand is a stupid choice.

And I realize that a very nice Garand + ammo can be had for much less money than my AR setup + mags and ammo.

ak103k
02-22-2013, 14:09
Also, considering that the Garand is a .30 'battle rifle'
Hope I didnt keep you waiting....

Didnt have to go to far from your ass, did we? :rofl:


I wasnt specifically saying it was here, but as you can see, it obviously is....

I can ask someone who has that as plan "well, can you take and enemy out at 400+yards with one shot from your AK?


I wasnt trying to be smart about anything I said there, but obviously, you took offense to it, so I guess I touched a nerve there.

I still like Pork. Sushi too. :)

No likie tuna! Smell follow you around. :rofl:

Warp
02-22-2013, 15:14
Hope I didnt keep you waiting....

Didnt have to go to far from your ass, did we? :rofl:


I wasnt specifically saying it was here, but as you can see, it obviously is....



Oh my Lord no, I said 'battle rifle' to indicate a rifle with a .30 bullet...solely for the purpose of comparing magazines capacities vs en bloc clip capacities on a apples to apples playing field.

Ouch. What oh what was I thinking laying down such an insult?!

Pro tip: When you are getting so worked up, insulting, and argumentative towards somebody who agrees with you and has made the same decision on you on the topic at hand...you probably need to take a step back, take a deep breath, and evaluate what you are doing.

fnfalman
02-23-2013, 03:15
When you come out of the gate saying something as ignorant and narrow minded as.

"But a big No for SHTF situations in today's modern times."


You can pretty much expect a negative response.

The naysayers act like "modern times" fighting is somehow magically different from WWII. It's still a bunch of people running around shooting at each other either outside or inside.

As far as clearing the room with the Garand or Arisaka, I'd simply shoot through the damn walls. That's the nice thing about having a powerful cartridge instead of a varmint gun caliber.

It's always the small caliber/cartridge folks that seem to have to do it.



:whistling:

They spend all the money on the video game ninja gadgets and so they have to justify that it's "modern times" and you need "modern tools" to fight.

The camel humpers that the modern GIs fight against aren't any better armed or armored than the camel humpers the old GIs fought against in Dubya Dubya Deuce. And they still fight the same way.

ak103k
02-23-2013, 06:17
As far as clearing the room with the Garand or Arisaka, I'd simply shoot through the damn walls. That's the nice thing about having a powerful cartridge instead of a varmint gun caliber.
Sounds like such a waste of ammo, especially for a low cap gun. What are you shooting at? Or do you have one of those thermal or millimeter sights on them from BO2? :)

They spend all the money on the video game ninja gadgets and so they have to justify that it's "modern times" and you need "modern tools" to fight.
Thats not entirely correct. I got my MP5 and MAC back when things were still analog, and before they had video games.

Now, I will admit, I got my suppressors after I started playing COD. Simply because I didnt want the UAV's to pick me up. :supergrin:

ETA: This time, I am being a smart ass. Sorry about making you battle rifle people spit your Cheerios on the screen. :)

byf43
02-23-2013, 10:50
"Is the M1 Garand practical", was the question.


Yes, it is very practical.
It is a GREAT firearm, that most definitely helped us win WWII.
It is a GREAT firearm for those that start out in High Power Rifle Matches.
It is a GREAT firearm for anyone wanting to spend the afternoon at the range and holding/shooting such a nostalgic piece of Freedom!

In today's society, is it "the" rifle to choose for "fighting"??? Nah.

There are other arms that are "more practical", but, you can rest easy, knowing that the M1 Garand CAN still "fight".

FWIW, I've got an M1 Garand, M1A, two AR-15s.

I've owned an SKS and an MAK-90, and never fired either. (They are both 'gone', now.) I really don't like the platforms.
"I don't want no 'Rooskie' rifle!"

I've got several K98k rifles. (I like them. . . . a LOT!)

I call my M1 Garand and M1A "Battle Rifles". Always have. Probably always will.
I've never called my ARs "Poodle Shooters". Never have. Never will.

They all co-exist in my gunsafe, just fine. Thank you, very much. :thumbsup:

Buy the M1 Garand!!!!!! Buy a piece of American History!!!!!

Warp
02-23-2013, 11:07
ETA: This time, I am being a smart ass. Sorry about making you battle rifle people spit your Cheerios on the screen. :)

http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g105/austin3161324/What_ccd64d_1854202_zps3cff16cf.png

ak103k
02-23-2013, 11:11
Mad about the Cheerios and milk in the keyboard, eh?:rofl:

Warp
02-23-2013, 11:14
http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g105/austin3161324/What_ccd64d_1854202_zps3cff16cf.png

Warp
02-23-2013, 11:16
But your right, it all gets silly after awhile. I think a lot of it boils down to just what people have, or prefer, more than anything else.

.....

ak103k
02-23-2013, 11:24
Hey, sounds like something I would have said! :)

countrygun
02-23-2013, 12:46
The naysayers act like "modern times" fighting is somehow magically different from WWII. It's still a bunch of people running around shooting at each other either outside or inside.

As far as clearing the room with the Garand or Arisaka, I'd simply shoot through the damn walls. That's the nice thing about having a powerful cartridge instead of a varmint gun caliber.


That is the REALLY funny part. Go to a thread on "Home Defense: Shotgun VS Carbine" and the same people will be touting the AR because "It penetrates less material than a 12 ga buckshot load" and then they pop up and say it is as good or better than a .308 or 30-06 as a battle rifle. ?????

LACK of penetration is what you want in YOUR battle rifle????

Hello McFly, bad guys hide behind things when you shoot at them.

Maybe its the ability to whack someone at 300-400 yards handily that they object to. After all, in "Modern warfare" the RULES say you're supposed to walk down mainstreet towards each other until you are no more than 20 feet apart and draw when the music stops.

:rofl::rofl:

News flash, "Fire power" as it is used in the common vernacular, is useful for pinning the enemy down, by suppressive fire, while your unit outflanks them. How many guys you got in your unit?

How do you plan on outflanking multiple opponent all by your lonesome?

For the individual, on the other hand, "Fire power" means pinning the opponent to the ground with one round.
"Suppressive fire" means one round that suppresses the opponents bodily functions permanently.

Warp
02-23-2013, 13:00
For the individual, on the other hand, "Fire power" means pinning the opponent to the ground with one round.
"Suppressive fire" means one round that suppresses the opponents bodily functions permanently.

Or it might mean putting enough fire downrange that they keep their head down while you retreat.

fnfalman
02-23-2013, 13:35
Sounds like such a waste of ammo, especially for a low cap gun. What are you shooting at? Or do you have one of those thermal or millimeter sights on them from BO2? :)


Shoot through the wall and you either hit them or not. If you don't hit them, then they'd definitely be hunkered down and you can finish them off with the bayonet.

ETA: This time, I am being a smart ass. Sorry about making you battle rifle people spit your Cheerios on the screen. :)

My battle rifle was an FN M16A2 that I took into Operation Just Cause and it was owned by Uncle Sam. The rest are just toys.

countrygun
02-23-2013, 13:53
Sounds like such a waste of ammo, especially for a low cap gun. What are you shooting at? Or do you have one of those thermal or millimeter sights on them from BO2? :)




Ahaha, you just go and make the choices you want "higher capacity-less effective round" for "suppressive fire or what ever you reason for needing high cap is,heck I even have a few of them my self and they are kinda "cute" and make pretty good sub-caliber trainers for battle rifles if a .22 rimfire isn't handy. They might be useful "in house", or if my eyesight deteriorates and I have to rely on spraying and praying. If my opponents make enough noise to give away their positions and they are close enough for the sub-caliber to be effective. (See the movie 'Eldorado" and the scene at the gunsmith's shop)

No, I hold no grudge against the pop-guns. But really they are limited in range and power which is two thing. All you can say the M-1 is limited in is magazine capacity, but it's range and power is a very good compensation for that especially for an individual in SHTF. trying to make up for range and power, with more shots, explains the need for high cap very well, but it is frightfully wastefull when it comes to ammo.

ak103k
02-23-2013, 15:16
All you can say the M-1 is limited in is magazine capacity, but it's range and power is a very good compensation for that especially for an individual in SHTF.
Magazine capacity becomes less of an issue as the distance increases, and becomes more of one, as it decreases. Time is your friend, and distance tends to regulate that.

On the match type target ranges, its a moot point, as they all must meet the 5/5 or 2/8 restriction based on the 5 round strippers of the 03's, which the course of fire was designed for.

On a side note, I used to get my butt kicked on a pretty regular basis by an old boy shooting an old Springfield, stripper fed bolt gun at our club matches. He pretty much beat everyone there, every time he showed up. Even the boys with all "the gear". My "gear" consisted of a utility cover, his was a welders cap. Maybe that brim was his edge. Naw, I dont think so. :)

I always thought the M1 was the better choice there, reload wise, but you have to load the two round clip first, so it really doesnt matter. Oh, well.

For bench shooters, its a non issue.

As much as people like to think the .30's will prevail at the longer ranges, it is interesting that the AR's have surpassed the M1's and M1A's at the matches now, even in that respect.

Personally, I never understood the theory of engaging at 4-500 yards and beyond, especially if they dont know youre there, but thats not really a weapons issue.

It also interesting when you ask the "target" shooters to pick out targets at those distances, that arent black, round range/ratio specific, or a dark, color contrasting silhouette standing upright, and all of a sudden, things arent fair.

Hey, I know we all here practice realistically as best we can, as far as we can, from field positions, and know better. Still, its fun to watch the looks on someones face, when you tell them they have to find the target to shoot it, and guess how far away it is. :)


trying to make up for range and power, with more shots, explains the need for high cap very well, but it is frightfully wastefull when it comes to ammo.
Its only frightfully wasteful, if the shooter is. That goes for anything too.

Range and power are meaningless, if the shooter cant make the shot.

I dont know what its like at your range, but where I shoot now, the only person Ive seen there so far (7 years now), that shoots from field positions and not off a bench, is me.

Most people only shoot at 100 yards too. Not sure if thats a marksmanship issue, or a fat ass, anything farther is to far to walk issue. :)

Everyone likes to tell you how great a shot they are, but when you tell them to step over here an just shoot, you usually just get a stupid stare.

As you said earlier, its usually not the guns fault if you cant shoot it. If you cant shoot, 5,8, 10, 20, 30, or whatever, really isnt going to matter.

Skills trump gear, those with both, arent to be trifled with.

The one eyed old man with cataracts shooting an old wired together single shot with no sights, who farts and his gun goes off, usually kills those boys. :)

countrygun
02-23-2013, 15:46
"I dont know what its like at your range, but where I shoot now, the only person Ive seen there so far (7 years now), that shoots from field positions and not off a bench, is me. "



Well, I'm afraid you have us poor country boys at a disadvantage with your fancy ranges and all.

This is about as close to rifle range as we poor folks have got,

http://i1231.photobucket.com/albums/ee518/CountryG/100_0037.jpg


Of course sometimes we go to this place, or a couple others, and set up targets of various types. Of course we don't have the luxury of having distances all marked out.

http://i1231.photobucket.com/albums/ee518/CountryG/001-4.jpg


We kinda have to figure that part out by ourselves based on experience. I sorta figure that might be an advantage in some ways when it comes to the real thing.

But then what does an old countrygun know about such things?

Warp
02-23-2013, 15:58
Most people only shoot at 100 yards too. Not sure if thats a marksmanship issue, or a fat ass, anything farther is to far to walk issue. :)

Everyone likes to tell you how great a shot they are, but when you tell them to step over here an just shoot, you usually just get a stupid stare.


I'm not sure what you keep basing all of these insults on? :dunno:

BTW: The last time I quoted you, you should have said "you're" and not "your".

In this quote, you should have said "too", not "to".

Warp
02-23-2013, 16:00
I dont know what its like at your range, but where I shoot now, the only person Ive seen there so far (7 years now), that shoots from field positions and not off a bench, is me.


Get out more.

http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g105/austin3161324/Firearms/20120923_141754_zps3437fc5d.jpg

http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g105/austin3161324/Firearms/20120922_141513_zpscc25db2c.jpg

http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g105/austin3161324/AnotherGarand_zpsff04fda0.jpg

http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g105/austin3161324/20120811_104051_zps8e4627eb.jpg

http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g105/austin3161324/20120915_133549_zps1158f6e6.jpg

http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g105/austin3161324/20121110_115837_zps58550bca.jpg

ak103k
02-23-2013, 16:15
Well, I'm afraid you have us poor country boys at a disadvantage with your fancy ranges and all.
Your range isnt all that different than mine. Ours just has a couple of benches next to a cinder block clubhouse, and we shoot into the side of a hill, instead of a borrow pit.

Your second pic, except for a farm or two and a powerline, kind of looks like what it looks like out off my back porch.



I'm not sure what you keep basing all of these insults on?
Just what I see. Why, does it fit?

BTW: The last time I quoted you, you should have said "you're" and not "your".

In this quote, you should have said "too", not "to".
Oh well, now I know weve hit a low spot, and youve run out of things to say, since youre picking on my grammar. Might want to run off and find some new troll graphics. :whistling:

Hey, its obvious you boys are the winners here, and I know when Im whipped. Now that I know youre expert long range field shooters, with mad reload and spelling skills, Im outta here.

Warp
02-23-2013, 16:20
Just what I see. Why, does it fit?


Which posters in this thread do you see being lazy fat asses that can't walk more than 100 yards to their target?

I must have missed that. :dunno:

fnfalman
02-23-2013, 18:25
For a range toy, yes. Absolutely.

But a big No for SHTF situations in today's modern times.

This isn't Europe 1944 where you can find bandoliers of clips and parts-guns at every battlefield.

What are you left with in a post-apocalyptic US when you have no ready access to proprietary 8rd en-bloc clips? You are SOL. You have a single-shot. How many dead cops or Natl Guardsmen will have Garand "stuff" with them?

Get it for a range toy or as your "ranch gun" if you live in the open ranges, but elsewhere stick to an AR.

Why am I not surprised that you mall ninjas were going to bring up SHTF/zombie/apocalypse situations?


Posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire (http://www.outdoorhub.com/mobile/)

Restless28
02-23-2013, 18:34
Why am I not surprised that you mall ninjas were going to bring up SHTF/zombie/apocalypse situations?


Posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire (http://www.outdoorhub.com/mobile/)

Fnfalman, kicking ass and taking names...Like taking candy from a baby...

Wyoming
02-24-2013, 23:26
"I dont know what its like at your range, but where I shoot now, the only person Ive seen there so far (7 years now), that shoots from field positions and not off a bench, is me. "



Well, I'm afraid you have us poor country boys at a disadvantage with your fancy ranges and all.

This is about as close to rifle range as we poor folks have got,

http://i1231.photobucket.com/albums/ee518/CountryG/100_0037.jpg


Of course sometimes we go to this place, or a couple others, and set up targets of various types. Of course we don't have the luxury of having distances all marked out.

http://i1231.photobucket.com/albums/ee518/CountryG/001-4.jpg


We kinda have to figure that part out by ourselves based on experience. I sorta figure that might be an advantage in some ways when it comes to the real thing.

But then what does an old countrygun know about such things?

Like your pictures of your ranges. Looks like some of mine. :cool:

Restless28
02-25-2013, 06:31
I would love to have a Garand, but I'm finding that its dangerous and risky to buy from an individual. Most of them have no clue as to what they have.

Warp
02-25-2013, 08:14
I would love to have a Garand, but I'm finding that its dangerous and risky to buy from an individual. Most of them have no clue as to what they have.

Do you even CMP?

You started this thread, but...have you read it?

1gewehr
02-25-2013, 09:18
Personally, I never understood the theory of engaging at 4-500 yards and beyond, especially if they dont know youre there, but thats not really a weapons issue.

Guerrilla tactic. Useful for slowing the advance of the opposition, or distracting them from other activities. Also, few things are more frustrating to any group than taking casualties without being able to respond adequately. A shooter who can hit his target from 4-500 yards can fire several well-aimed shots and then scamper off before coming under seriously dangerous return fire.

Causing an opposition to deploy against a single shooter or weak force is a useful delay. Also, you can change the focus of their attention so that an ambush or strong attack from another direction is less expected.

Restless28
02-25-2013, 09:51
Do you even CMP?

You started this thread, but...have you read it?

I have. I was referencing locals trying to peddle their Garand, but do so with a blank stare if you ask the questions on condition that I learned here.

fnfalman
02-25-2013, 10:21
Guerrilla tactic. Useful for slowing the advance of the opposition, or distracting them from other activities. Also, few things are more frustrating to any group than taking casualties without being able to respond adequately. A shooter who can hit his target from 4-500 yards can fire several well-aimed shots and then scamper off before coming under seriously dangerous return fire.

Causing an opposition to deploy against a single shooter or weak force is a useful delay. Also, you can change the focus of their attention so that an ambush or strong attack from another direction is less expected.

I just like to shoot them way before they can shoot me. All that close with and overwhelm with violence and firepower...I'll leave it to the young.

Bren
02-25-2013, 10:49
I'm looking into a Garand. How hard is it to find ammo? I loved shooting my dad's.

I'm beginning to admire and desire classic rifles now, such as the Garand, Mosin, Mauser, Enfield, etc.

Is the Garand practical if ammo is scarce?

Huh? .30-06 is one of the most common rounds in the US. I'd say it's at least as common as .308 and maybe more so.

awpk03s
02-25-2013, 11:02
I have. I was referencing locals trying to peddle their Garand, but do so with a blank stare if you ask the questions on condition that I learned here.

In my experience, locals selling Garands (or at shows) are asking 2x the price they paid from CMP, and always claim the rifle is some marvel of wonder - National Match, all matching, original, certified WWII nazi killer - when cursory inspection yields those claims false quite quickly.

If you want a Garand, CMP is the only way to go.

Restless28
02-25-2013, 11:48
Huh? .30-06 is one of the most common rounds in the US. I'd say it's at least as common as .308 and maybe more so.

I was referring to the Springfield ammo. Now that I know a gas plug can remedy this, I'm educated.

Glock 23 Nutter
02-25-2013, 12:22
OK... the U.S. RIFLE CAL. .30 M1

The CMP Service Grade Garands (http://www.odcmp.com/Sales/m1garand.htm#Service) are Outstanding rifles, and at ~ $650 delivered to your doorstep? a great deal as well.

Barrels are generally Throat Erosion TE<3, and Muzzle Erosion ME<2. This represents ~10% wear on a barrel that should shoot accurately for well over Ten-Thousand rounds... so they are near new.

A well put-together M1 Garand will shoot consistently inside of Three (3) MOA w/ M2 ball (like the HXP that the CMP sells for $0.50/round). That a head-shot out to 300 yards and a chest-shot out to 600 yards. It is also MOD (Minute of Deer) out to 400 yards with hunting ammo they will usually shoot inside of Two (2) MOA. And yes, I hunt w/ mine, at 9.5 lbs it is only maybe a pound heaver than my scoped M700.

A few things you will want to look into.

1. Ported Gas Plug (http://www.garandgear.com/m1garand/detail/33-springs-and-things/flypage/75-ported-gas-plug?sef=hcfp) - This device will allow you to shoot any 30-06 ammo w/o damage or adjustment.

2. Holbrook Device (http://www.m1thumbsaver.com/) - This device will allow you to single-round load your M1 and eject the clip on demand, the bolt stays open until you release it by pulling it back like an M14.

3. CMP3 Clips (http://estore.thecmp.org/store/catalog/catalog.aspx?pg=product&ID=PC014&item=&sfv=&cat=PAC&desc=&udc=&mct=&vndr=&ba=&pmin=&pmax=&note1=&note2=&note3=&note4=&note5=&max=) - From the CMP E-store. These are Milspec clips manufactured on military contract equipment by Aggressive Engineering Corp. (AEC).

4. - Learn to shoot w/ a Sling, from Field Positions.
Rifle Marksmanship with the M1 Rifle 1942 Pt1
Rifle Marksmanship with the M1 Rifle 1942 Pt2

5. THE RIFLEMAN (http://the-rifleman.blogspot.com/) - Become a Rifleman.




GR

Restless28
02-25-2013, 12:26
Got any suggestions on which club to join to meet CMP qualifications?

countrygun
02-25-2013, 12:45
Guerrilla tactic. Useful for slowing the advance of the opposition, or distracting them from other activities. Also, few things are more frustrating to any group than taking casualties without being able to respond adequately. A shooter who can hit his target from 4-500 yards can fire several well-aimed shots and then scamper off before coming under seriously dangerous return fire.

Causing an opposition to deploy against a single shooter or weak force is a useful delay. Also, you can change the focus of their attention so that an ambush or strong attack from another direction is less expected.

Indeed, using a capability that your opponents lack is one very effective way of compensating for disparity in the size of the units. (IE one against many) I would have thought the recent events in SoCal would have brought some form of reality to those with dreams of winning a close quarter battle against overwhelming numbers.

Apparently some folks need to got to an Appleseed and get their minds right.

countrygun
02-25-2013, 12:47
Got any suggestions on which club to join to meet CMP qualifications?

GO TO AN APPLESEED SHOOT. :supergrin:

Actually someone will come along and mention a club one can join, but the Appleseed is the real way to go.

awpk03s
02-25-2013, 15:20
Got any suggestions on which club to join to meet CMP qualifications?

http://www.thegca.org/

Fairly cheap, and you get a quarterly magazine to read.

Restless28
02-25-2013, 15:29
http://www.thegca.org/

Fairly cheap, and you get a quarterly magazine to read.

Thanks!!!

byf43
02-25-2013, 18:28
Got any suggestions on which club to join to meet CMP qualifications?

I think GSSF is still a CMP affiliated club!

Restless28
02-25-2013, 18:34
I joined the GCA. I liked their web page and the magazine deal.

byf43
02-25-2013, 18:51
I joined the GCA. I liked their web page and the magazine deal.

:thumbsup: Sounds good!:thumbsup:

Warp
02-25-2013, 23:32
GO TO AN APPLESEED SHOOT. :supergrin:

Actually someone will come along and mention a club one can join, but the Appleseed is the real way to go.

YES!!!

http://www.thegca.org/

Fairly cheap, and you get a quarterly magazine to read.

That's what I did.

I think GSSF is still a CMP affiliated club!

They are.

I joined the GCA. I liked their web page and the magazine deal.

That'll work.

But seriously.

Go to an Appleseed. :thumbsup:

Restless28
02-26-2013, 05:34
I will be checking on Appleseed soon.

schild
02-26-2013, 05:41
http://www.scottschildgen.com/photos/i-PZ54kbX/0/L/i-PZ54kbX-L.jpg

Don't buy a Garand, it's a non-relevant old battle rifle.:tongueout:

Glock 23 Nutter
02-26-2013, 10:16
OK... the U.S. RIFLE CAL. .30 M1

The CMP Service Grade Garands (http://www.odcmp.com/Sales/m1garand.htm) are Outstanding rifles, and at ~ $650 delivered to your doorstep? a great deal as well.

Barrels are generally Throat Erosion TE<3, and Muzzle Erosion ME<2. This represents ~10% wear on a barrel that should shoot accurately for well over Ten-Thousand rounds... so they are near new.

A well put-together M1 Garand will shoot consistently inside of Three (3) MOA w/ M2 ball (like the HXP that the CMP sells for $0.50/round). That's a head-shot out to 200 yards and a chest-shot out to 500 yards. It is also MOD (Minute of Deer) out to 400 yards with hunting ammo they will usually shoot inside of Two (2) MOA. And yes, I hunt w/ mine, at 9.5 lbs it is only maybe a pound heaver than my scoped M700.

A few things you will want to look into.

1. Ported Gas Plug (http://www.garandgear.com/m1garand/detail/33-springs-and-things/flypage/75-ported-gas-plug?sef=hcfp) - This device will allow you to shoot any 30-06 ammo w/o damage or adjustment.

2. Holbrook Device (http://www.m1thumbsaver.com/) - This device will allow you to single-round load your M1 and eject the clip on demand, the bolt stays open until you release it by pulling it back like an M14.

3. CMP3 Clips (http://estore.thecmp.org/store/catalog/catalog.aspx?pg=product&ID=PC014&item=&sfv=&cat=PAC&desc=&udc=&mct=&vndr=&ba=&pmin=&pmax=&note1=&note2=&note3=&note4=&note5=&max=) - From the CMP E-store. These are Milspec clips manufactured on military contract equipment by Aggressive Engineering Corp. (AEC).

4. - Learn to shoot w/ a Sling, from Field Positions.
Rifle Marksmanship with the M1 Rifle 1942 Pt1
Rifle Marksmanship with the M1 Rifle 1942 Pt2

5. THE RIFLEMAN (http://the-rifleman.blogspot.com/) - Become a Rifleman.




Nutter

Leigh
02-26-2013, 13:12
GO TO AN APPLESEED SHOOT. :supergrin:

Actually someone will come along and mention a club one can join, but the Appleseed is the real way to go.

Been there, done that....three times.

I only wish I could find on closer to home!

You would be surprised (or maybe not) by how many people fancy themselves at being excellent marksmen only to find themselves struggling with the basics at an Appleseed.

Warp
02-26-2013, 14:08
Been there, done that....three times.

I only wish I could find on closer to home!

You would be surprised (or maybe not) by how many people fancy themselves at being excellent marksmen only to find themselves struggling with the basics at an Appleseed.

I think most people with any kind of life/world experience are well aware of that phenomenon, regardless of the topic at hand.

A lot of people fancy themselves as skilled/experienced with something, but fall short.

That's why we have sayings like 'You talk the talk, abut can you walk the walk?', 'Put your money where your mouth is', 'Actions speak louder than words', 'Put up or shut up', etc.

Guys can talk a real big game, but when the chips are down, they fold.

Glock 23 Nutter
02-26-2013, 21:36
Been there, done that....three times.

I only wish I could find on closer to home!

You would be surprised (or maybe not) by how many people fancy themselves at being excellent marksmen only to find themselves struggling with the basics at an Appleseed.

Benches should be torn out of Rife Ranges... they are a crutch to Marksmanship, a hallucination, and a waste of time and ammo.

If you can't shoot 6 MOA from field positions w/ a sling?

Air-Soft Ranger. :supergrin:




Nutter

Restless28
02-27-2013, 06:42
Thank you all for the great information. You've made me more confident in buying a Garand.

Warp
02-27-2013, 14:33
Thank you all for the great information. You've made me more confident in buying a Garand.

Excellent. :supergrin:

norton
02-27-2013, 20:18
We are living in the golden age of Mil Surp weapons, including the M1.
It can and probably will come to a screeching halt at some point in the future.
I would get one before you no longer can.

jthrelf
02-28-2013, 09:20
just dropped my CMP order in the mail for a HRA service grade... felt great!

now the wait begins....

Garandimal
03-02-2013, 18:12
...Don't buy a Garand, it's a non-relevant old battle rifle.:tongueout:

Yes, quite.

I mean, what possible good could a 4 MOA Rifleman be - shooting from field positions and armed w/ a M1 Garand.

And that old 30-06?... pfttt.

What about the Rifles themselves, Really? These old things...?

http://imageshack.us/a/img88/5526/dscn18381024.jpg




Well, all I really have to say is...

http://imageshack.us/a/img267/2786/garandflag03vote.jpg


:supergrin:


GR