Baer, Brown or Wilson? [Archive] - Glock Talk

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ditto1958
02-22-2013, 09:40
Was visiting with a relative yesterday who I don't get to see much any more and we got to talking about guns. Anyway, he mentioned he is going to buy a high end 1911. Apparently he has narrowed things down to a Les Baer, Ed Brown or Wilson Combat.

He asked me for my opinion, but I told him that I didn't know enough about it to give him any advice.

That got me to thinking, though. What would I buy if I were in the market for a gun like that? I assume 1911's in that price range are pretty much all good, but which makers are better, and why?

What differentiates one from the others? Quality? Features? Customer service?

Pistolpete2
02-22-2013, 10:03
Wilson has the best customer service hands down

mikegc
02-22-2013, 10:11
Well, heck, you cannot go wrong with any of those manufacturers. For me, it basically came down to price. The Wilson I was looking at was going to be close to $5000, the Ed Brown hit the calculator at $2700 and the Les Baer came in at $1900 on a deal through Crazy John.

Mike

glock2740
02-22-2013, 10:17
I own guns from all three of the above mentioned (2 Baers, 1 Brown and 3 Wilsons) and love them all. Although, before he plunks down some serious money on a top tier 1911, at least tell him to look into Guncrafter's 1911's, in particular, the No Name model. Right now, Guncrafter's No Name is the best 1911 for the money out there IMO. I have 4 of them and would take a new Guncrafter over anything from the other 3 manufacturers mentioned if I were buying a new 1911 and thos e names were on my list. He might just end up adding another name, or "No Name", :supergrin: to his list and make it that much harder to decide. :cool:

38 Super Fan
02-22-2013, 10:20
All three are very similar in quality, Baer is the best value of the group, if I was gonna spend Wilson, or Brown money, I'd rather opt for a Guncrafter.

ditto1958
02-22-2013, 10:38
The Guncrafters look nice, but on his website it looks as though he is concentrating on .50 caliber 1911's. Does he still make .45's?

jdw174
02-22-2013, 11:03
My vote would go to an original Dick Heinie 1911, but you didn't include that, so...........

Zombie Steve
02-22-2013, 11:22
All good guns. If it's not a budget concern, tell him to get the one he thinks is coolest.

Seriously.

ditto1958
02-22-2013, 11:25
All good guns. If it's not a budget concern, tell him to get the one he thinks is coolest.

Seriously.

Wish I'd have thought of that! Good advice.

faawrenchbndr
02-22-2013, 16:25
GI



http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c341/faawrenchbndr/GI%20No%20Name/5f4df97acccfccad1f93c4e316646a92.jpg

glock2740
02-22-2013, 19:25
The Guncrafters look nice, but on his website it looks as though he is concentrating on .50 caliber 1911's. Does he still make .45's?
Nope. He gave them up.

davsco
02-22-2013, 19:28
as far as value goes, i think baer is easiest the best value. super reliable and super accurate. at about 2/3 or less the price of wilson, which is equally reliable and accurate. but if you have an extra grand or so to spare, you won't go wrong with the wilson.

Short Cut
02-22-2013, 19:38
Tough call. Kinda like which of your kids to love most. Add the Springfield Professional or TGO1 from their Custom Shop to the mix to make it even tougher.

faawrenchbndr
02-22-2013, 19:48
A Guncrafter is a higher quality than the Springer Pro

Rinspeed
02-22-2013, 20:34
A Guncrafter is a higher quality than the Springer Pro




I don't know, I see all the pretty pictures of these Guncrafters but none look like they have more than 400 rounds through them. :tongueout: :rofl:

faawrenchbndr
02-22-2013, 20:40
I don't know, I see all the pretty pictures of these Guncrafters but none look like they have more than 400 rounds through them. :tongueout: :rofl:

:rofl:

Got carried today........I've somehow scratched the rear sight.
Slide has np more than a few from holstering

http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c341/faawrenchbndr/GI%20No%20Name/GIwithStrider.jpg

bac1023
02-22-2013, 22:11
The Guncrafters look nice, but on his website it looks as though he is concentrating on .50 caliber 1911's. Does he still make .45's?

He makes plenty of 45ACP 1911s.

Short Cut
02-22-2013, 22:38
A Guncrafter is a higher quality than the Springer Pro

In your estimation what is it about the Guncrafter that compares more favorably than the Pro?

Roydrage
02-22-2013, 22:55
Another gun he should consider is Nighthawk Customs.

All four of these are amazing, and all shoot great, and are reliable... (Baer after breakin).

I think in terms of astedics... It's Wilson With Brown right behind... Customer Service is all Wilson As mentioned.

Quality is Wilson, Brown, and Nighthawk right behind.

You can't go wrong with any of him... He just has to look at all them at each model, and pick the one that rings his Bell!!

Tony

glock2740
02-23-2013, 01:17
In your estimation what is it about the Guncrafter that compares more favorably than the Pro?
I actually own the consecutive serial number Pro AND No Name as FAA. I also own 3 other No Names, as well as 3 other SACS 1911's. I can say, without a doubt, that Gun Crafter makes THE BEST 1911 for the money out there. :cool: Without shooting his guns, I'm "pretty sure" that I know exactly how they run. And I can say, without a doubt, that not only is the Pro a bad mofo, but the NN is even better. :cool:

quantico
02-23-2013, 01:45
Can I assume those of you touting wilson combat for great customer service actually have wilson pistols and needed to have problems resolved thru customer service ?? If not its really just repeating someone elses opinion without reason. I have had my gun in wilsons shop and the customer service was lacking. Actually the lack of skill that made my poor pistol look like it had been abused by an idiot with a vice, no padding and a dremel started my wilson combat experience. I am sure they make good guns. I have heard a lot of people that seem happy with them. When I have looked at their pistols at gun shops they look very nicely made with good quality parts and fit and finish. My experience with them was real world. I tried getting the attention of anyone that would help me get my pistol sorted out that worked at their shop. I tried asking for help from wilson combat rep... a poster that is on many 1911 forums. He was polite and answered me ( thanks sir ) . But he was unable to help me either.
So please if you have real world experience with that company ... great . You certainly are able to have your own opinion and maybe you got great service. In my case I got very poor work and no interest in making it right. So it drives me crazy when I see these " awesome service posts " . They make my head hurt.

Also I have never had need to have my guns fixed generally , so I have little experience with most 1911 builders. I have great things to say about Don Williams.. Ted Yost .. dane Burns .. and the folks at ed brown for info , not for repair. Those builders I have tons of respect for.

Officer's Match
02-23-2013, 01:58
I've had all three manufacturers the OP lists, and count me as a Baer guy. Or a SACS. Or better yet, a Baer-era SACS guy.

Batesmotel
02-23-2013, 02:48
Baer. My TRS ia well used and runs fantastic.

I had a terrible time with Wilson customer service. Multiple failures to feed and extract on every brand of ammo. I wanted info on how to send it back to be serviced. The woman I repeatedly spoke to blamed me for the problem. Told me it was bad ammo or I was limp-wristing and I needed to learn to shoot a 1911 properly.

I qualified USMC Pistol Expert on the 1911.

I finally took it to an excellent pistol smith. He found the chamber to be undersized even for a match chamber. After paying him to hone the chamber and polish the feed ramp it ran fine.

Wilson should have done it for me instead of arguing with me.

fnfalman
02-23-2013, 03:17
I'd hunt up an old King's Gunwork or old Clark Custom just to be different.

3rdgen40
02-23-2013, 05:26
I don't know, I see all the pretty pictures of these Guncrafters but none look like they have more than 400 rounds through them. :tongueout: :rofl:
That's because they spend so much money on all their pretty 1911's they can't afford to buy ammo for them.:supergrin:

faawrenchbndr
02-23-2013, 06:38
That's because they spend so much money on all their pretty 1911's they can't afford to buy ammo for them.:supergrin:

Yep,.......just passed 2400 rounds fired since Jan 1st 2013.
Sure wish I could afford to shoot this year. :honkie:

Bren
02-23-2013, 06:57
The only guy I know who has a Les Baer and shoots it regularly, has had to send it back for repairs (broken parts) more than any other gun, of any brand, I have ever seen. I'd lean toward Wilson.

faawrenchbndr
02-23-2013, 07:30
Wilson does have a bit more personable customer service than Baer! :whistling:

DAT85
02-23-2013, 07:57
Wilson does have a bit more personable customer service than Baer! :whistling:

Out of my 5 Baers,one was a complete jam-a-matic ( a PII in 9mm).
After talking to Baer,I sent it to Alchemy Custom Weaponry for new sights,a flat trigger,and to trouble shoot the problem.

Rather than put up with the crappy CS at Baer,I got back a pistol that has the sights and trigger I wanted to begin with,and a gun that hasn't jammed ONCE in the 1k rds I have put through it since I got it back.

So,I would say,if you want a great gun for the price and don't care about CS and are willing to take a chance,get a Baer.

Worried about CS?
Spend more elsewhere and take a chance.

(ps:If CJ at CJ1911HEAVEN sold Guncrafters products,I would probabaly have bought 5 of those instead of the Baers ! )

DAT85

faawrenchbndr
02-23-2013, 08:01
Hey Dat,

I have never had an issue with any Baer I've owned. My Commanche
runs as slick as Ex-Lax through a cat!

glock2740
02-23-2013, 08:06
That's because they spend so much money on all their pretty 1911's they can't afford to buy ammo for them.:supergrin:
Contraire monfraire.:rofl: I've got 4 No Names with several thousand rounds through them. Toys are no good without batteries. :cool:

glock2740
02-23-2013, 08:09
Wilson does have a bit more personable customer service than Baer! :whistling:
That ain't no joke! :wow: I called Baer and actually talked to Les about an issue I was having with my TRS (extractor tension) and he gave me a screaming lecture about how it must be those *****ty Wilson mags I was using. :rofl:Dude is a little high strung to say the least. :rofl:

MrCowboy99
02-23-2013, 08:10
Just a brown guy with no complaints

faawrenchbndr
02-23-2013, 08:29
That ain't no joke! :wow: I called Baer and actually talked to Les about an issue I was having with my TRS (extractor tension) and he gave me a screaming lecture about how it must be those *****ty Wilson mags I was using. :rofl:Dude is a little high strung to say the least. :rofl:

Ed got a bit pissy when I called about my Kobra Carry's slide stop
Peened for the second time. Was told, "count your rounds fired.
Do not shoot it to slide stop". Seriously, I **** you not! He replaced
the slide, I sold it and will not buy another Brown.

3rdgen40
02-23-2013, 08:59
Yep,.......just passed 2400 rounds fired since Jan 1st 2013.
Sure wish I could afford to shoot this year. :honkie:
'Twas a joke...hence the smilie face.:tongueout:

Contraire monfraire.:rofl: I've got 4 No Names with several thousand rounds through them. Toys are no good without batteries. :cool:
So,they're not just for BBQ's ? :rofl:

faawrenchbndr
02-23-2013, 09:15
'Twas a joke...hence the smilie face.:tongueout:


So,they're not just for BBQ's ? :rofl:

Randy,.........completely understood that! :tongueout:

Just tossin it back your direction. BBQ's and church carry!

3rdgen40
02-23-2013, 09:28
BBQ's and church carry!
...and taking pretty pics on a piece of carpet.:whistling:

Ruggles
02-23-2013, 09:50
Heard enough bad about Brown & Baer to believe they are at the least part time jerks. I have one of each of their 1911s but have never had to call them.

Wilson I have called. Had a front sight issue on a CQB. They could not have handled it better IMO. Buy my third 1911 from them right now. CS is a factor in that.

Ruggles
02-23-2013, 09:55
Can I assume those of you touting wilson combat for great customer service actually have wilson pistols and needed to have problems resolved thru customer service ?? If not its really just repeating someone elses opinion without reason. I have had my gun in wilsons shop and the customer service was lacking. Actually the lack of skill that made my poor pistol look like it had been abused by an idiot with a vice, no padding and a dremel started my wilson combat experience. I am sure they make good guns. I have heard a lot of people that seem happy with them. When I have looked at their pistols at gun shops they look very nicely made with good quality parts and fit and finish. My experience with them was real world. I tried getting the attention of anyone that would help me get my pistol sorted out that worked at their shop. I tried asking for help from wilson combat rep... a poster that is on many 1911 forums. He was polite and answered me ( thanks sir ) . But he was unable to help me either.
So please if you have real world experience with that company ... great . You certainly are able to have your own opinion and maybe you got great service. In my case I got very poor work and no interest in making it right. So it drives me crazy when I see these " awesome service posts " . They make my head hurt.

Also I have never had need to have my guns fixed generally , so I have little experience with most 1911 builders. I have great things to say about Don Williams.. Ted Yost .. dane Burns .. and the folks at ed brown for info , not for repair. Those builders I have tons of respect for.

Well since you asked. :rofl:

The gold dot front sight on my CQB "sunk" into the sight housing. I called Wilson and they said send it back. I sent back just the slide, cost $11 S&H out of pocket. They had it back to me with a week and threw in 2 ETM mags to offset my S&H. That is about $75 worth of mags so I was happy with that. Painless, quick and fair. :)

Had the slide back for over a year and the issue remains fixed.

Also called them a couple of times with questions (try finding flush fit compact 1911 mags in .38 Super!) as well as emails with questions. Always a fast and friendly reply.

bac1023
02-23-2013, 10:55
:rofl:

Got carried today........I've somehow scratched the rear sight.
Slide has np more than a few from holstering

http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c341/faawrenchbndr/GI%20No%20Name/GIwithStrider.jpg

Very nice Greg :cool:

faawrenchbndr
02-23-2013, 11:01
Heard enough bad about Brown & Baer to believe they are at the least part time jerks. I have one of each of their 1911s but have never had to call them.

Wilson I have called. Had a front sight issue on a CQB. They could not have handled it better IMO. Buy my third 1911 from them right now. CS is a factor in that.

I had talked to Ed twice before. Once the first time it peened, he
was very nice to chat with. Second time was a bit the same. Third
time he was noticeably frustrated with the "issue" as was I. They
did pay shipping, both ways, each time. The only problem I had
was the bullcrap line of not shooting until slide stop.


If,.......I ever bought a Brown again, it would not have a stainless slide.
The peening has not happened on a carbon steel slide that I have heard of.

Short Cut
02-23-2013, 11:28
I've never had to use them, but I've heard the best reports about Springfield's customer service.

DAT85
02-23-2013, 11:34
Hey Dat,

I have never had an issue with any Baer I've owned. My Commanche
runs as slick as Ex-Lax through a cat!

You know Greg,I'm just lucky like that ! :crying:

DAT85

Ruggles
02-23-2013, 11:36
I had talked to Ed twice before. Once the first time it peened, he
was very nice to chat with. Second time was a bit the same. Third
time he was noticeably frustrated with the "issue" as was I. They
did pay shipping, both ways, each time. The only problem I had
was the bullcrap line of not shooting until slide stop.


If,.......I ever bought a Brown again, it would not have a stainless slide.
The peening has not happened on a carbon steel slide that I have heard of.

I have a blue Kobra Carry and it has peened some. I never tried to get it fixed as it is not that bad. I have not heard of a stainless one doing either.

I agree Brown saying not to shoot to slide stop on a gun he markets as a carry defensive gun is just stupid.

faawrenchbndr
02-23-2013, 11:44
Yes, I was a bit shocked at that statement.
I spoke with Joe Chambers, seems the peening is a geometry deal
between the notch and slide stop itself. Joe said it is a ten min fix.

Ruggles
02-23-2013, 11:57
Yes, I was a bit shocked at that statement.
I spoke with Joe Chambers, seems the peening is a geometry deal
between the notch and slide stop itself. Joe said it is a ten min fix.

Mine needs to be refinished, the blue (no Gen III) on the backstrap, grip safety and MSH is gone. Once I work out what finish I want I will most likely have the peening fixed then. I am thinking hard chrome. Not sure though.

The Baer TRS Comanche I had was not as reliable as I would have liked. It was also silly tight. I ended up selling it. I ended up buying a Baer PII last year. Still way too tight IMO but it is a nice gun. Maybe a Baer is .38 Super in the future but other than that I do not think I will buy anymore Baers.

The Kobra carry has been a great 1911. I would love a 5" Kobra in stainless :)

The two Wilsons have been great. I choose them again for my latest 1911. Ordered in Feb 2012 I am still waiting for it.

Not sure what if anything is next, darn 1911 in this range are just too expensive these days.

I am thinking a Cylinder & Slide 1911 next.

http://www.cylinder-slide.com/index.php?app=ccp0&ns=prodshow&ref=FZ078

Looks awesome but not sure I want to sink that much money in a single gun any longer. Got the travel bug last couple of years and that is sucking away all of my disposable income :crying:

Rinspeed
02-23-2013, 20:34
Was told, "count your rounds fired.
Do not shoot it to slide stop". Seriously, I **** you not! He replaced
the slide, I sold it and will not buy another Brown.




I've heard that before from you and others as well. :rofl: That's some funny *** stuff. If I had to guess I would say both LB and EB have become so egotistcal because of their success that they really don't care if they lose a couple customers. They both sell more 1911s than they can possibly build so they figure who cares if they lose a few. :dunno:

bac1023
02-23-2013, 21:24
...and taking pretty pics on a piece of carpet.:whistling:

:thumbsup:

glock2740
02-24-2013, 00:13
...and taking pretty pics on a piece of carpet.:whistling:
:rofl:

Zombie Steve
02-24-2013, 08:13
Just a brown guy with no complaints

Ditto.

DWCT
02-24-2013, 16:16
Another vote for Nighthawk. I have had great luck with mine and think they have the best looking configurations.

SpringerTGO
02-25-2013, 10:57
Another vote for Nighthawk. I have had great luck with mine and think they have the best looking configurations.

I've never experienced worse customer service than Nighthawk.
My vote with be with a Springfield Custom.

DWCT
02-25-2013, 11:10
I've never experienced worse customer service than Nighthawk.
My vote with be with a Springfield Custom.

Sorry to hear, my experience has been the exact oposite.

BigDeeeeeeee
02-25-2013, 11:47
+1 Guncrafter

GVFlyer
02-25-2013, 11:48
I have 1911s from all three makers. When I recently went to renew my concealed carry permit I grabbed the Ed Brown Kobra Carry. I've had best luck with Wilson Combat customer service - I would never buy anything directly from Brown - in my experience he has been a fifth order of magnitude A-hole.

SpringerTGO
02-25-2013, 11:58
Sorry to hear, my experience has been the exact oposite.

Besides the going out of their way to insult me, my Nighthawk came with a defective slide stop and crappy ambi safety. They paid shipping one way, and told me to read the fine print on the safety. Then they posted in a 1911 forum, "if you don't like it, sell it".

Great company.

MD357
02-25-2013, 12:09
Wilson has the best CS I've ever dealt with. Hope that doesn't make a head explode but it's a fact.

Baer or GC would be my pick of all the shops mentioned. All are great guns that generally will last longer than anyone here will care to shoot.

ditto1958
02-25-2013, 15:38
Wilson has the best CS I've ever dealt with. Hope that doesn't make a head explode but it's a fact.

Baer or GC would be my pick of all the shops mentioned. All are great guns that generally will last longer than anyone here will care to shoot.

I found it interesting in an article I read today that the new USMC 1911 from Colt uses Wilson magazines. Those must be some excellent mags.

faawrenchbndr
02-25-2013, 16:13
Wilson mags are ok,......Tripp mags are better!

Roydrage
02-25-2013, 17:16
I found it interesting in an article I read today that the new USMC 1911 from Colt uses Wilson magazines. Those must be some excellent mags.

Link?

Thanks,

Tony

glock2740
02-25-2013, 17:27
Wilson and Tripp Cobras are all I use. :cool:

Rinspeed
02-25-2013, 17:39
I found it interesting in an article I read today that the new USMC 1911 from Colt uses Wilson magazines. Those must be some excellent mags.





So did the original SA PRO and they switched to Metalform mags early in the qualification process. :dunno:

MD357
02-25-2013, 23:37
So did the original SA PRO and they switched to Metalform mags early in the qualification process. :dunno:

The also everntually stopped using Wilson SS's and switched in their own MIM SS.

What the Springfield Pro shop uses or does isn't gospel.


Wilson makes excellent mags people and so does Tripp. Anyone here actually wear out a mag??? IF so, see what happens when you call up Wilson and say you've got a worn out or broken mag. Speaking from experience they'll send you one, quick fast inahurry.

fnfalman
02-26-2013, 10:30
The also everntually stopped using Wilson SS's and switched in their own MIM SS.

What the Springfield Pro shop uses or does isn't gospel.


Wilson makes excellent mags people and so does Tripp. Anyone here actually wear out a mag??? IF so, see what happens when you call up Wilson and say you've got a worn out or broken mag. Speaking from experience they'll send you one, quick fast inahurry.

Speaking from experience, I'm still waiting to hear from Wilson about the two defective ETM 9mm compact mags that I got. Two out of five refused to feed while the other three and the Colt factory mags work just fine out of my Colt Defender.

I emailed them twice and with photos of the jams in the last 4 weeks. I'm sure that they're busy and that $80 worth of mags issue isn't as important as a selling a $4000 gun.

All I know is that when my 10mm mags from Tripp Research were having issues, after I contacted Virgil himself, things got resolved most ricky tick.

As far as I'm concerned, Wilson Combat can kiss my ass when it comes to mags from now on.

MD357
02-26-2013, 12:32
Speaking from experience, I'm still waiting to hear from Wilson about the two defective ETM 9mm compact mags that I got. Two out of five refused to feed while the other three and the Colt factory mags work just fine out of my Colt Defender.

I emailed them twice and with photos of the jams in the last 4 weeks. I'm sure that they're busy and that $80 worth of mags issue isn't as important as a selling a $4000 gun.

Dunno what to tell you other than when I CALLED them, I was taken care of. So has just about every owner I know of personally. I just don't understand emailing unless it's the only option.

I will say that the Rep reads the Wilson Forum on 1911forums so..... squeaky wheel gets the grease.

I don't doubt that Virgil Tripp took care of you either, he's a class act.

faawrenchbndr
02-26-2013, 12:55
Hey,

What did Virgil say about those 10mm mags?

fnfalman
02-26-2013, 13:21
Hey,

What did Virgil say about those 10mm mags?

He doesn't know why the base plates give way although the case wasn't ruptured and vented gas into the magazine. He's going to relook at maybe beefing up the mag plate release button.

fnfalman
02-26-2013, 13:24
Dunno what to tell you other than when I CALLED them, I was taken care of. So has just about every owner I know of personally. I just don't understand emailing unless it's the only option.

Well, when I called I get voicemail and left them messages too.

I will say that the Rep reads the Wilson Forum on 1911forums so..... squeaky wheel gets the grease.

I don't think that I need to post their mag problems on a gun board before I get services. I figured their website's Contact List is for that.

I don't doubt that Virgil Tripp took care of you either, he's a class act.

The man stands by his products and services.

faawrenchbndr
02-26-2013, 14:22
Cool deal,.....he is a 1st Class Act!

SilverState
02-26-2013, 14:47
I haven't owned a Les Baer, but I hear they come too tight (if that is possible) and require a few hundred rounds before they can be reliable. I have owned a Brown, own several Wilsons, and own a Rock River that took about a year to make (bobtail commander), back when they did custom 1911 jobs. Other than my Rock River, I prefer Wilson Combat's CQBs, when it comes to 1911s.

Ruggles
02-26-2013, 16:47
I haven't owned a Les Baer, but I hear they come too tight (if that is possible) and require a few hundred rounds before they can be reliable. I have owned a Brown, own several Wilsons, and own a Rock River that took about a year to make (bobtail commander), back when they did custom 1911 jobs. Other than my Rock River, I prefer Wilson Combat's CQBs, when it comes to 1911s.

I do not think the tightness of the Baer 1911s make them less reliable per say just too damn hard to cycle the action by hand. I don't think I need a gym workout to load a 1911!

I see no need to make them that tight myself. It's a heck of a mechanical achievement for Baer to make them that tight and they still function but just not what I prefer in a 1911.

SpringerTGO
02-26-2013, 17:46
I haven't owned a Les Baer, but I hear they come too tight (if that is possible) and require a few hundred rounds before they can be reliable. I have owned a Brown, own several Wilsons, and own a Rock River that took about a year to make (bobtail commander), back when they did custom 1911 jobs. Other than my Rock River, I prefer Wilson Combat's CQBs, when it comes to 1911s.

Les Baer is a very respected builder, and without firsthand experience I don't see why anyone would want to pass on that kind of rumor.

Years ago I had a custom Gold Cup built for me by James Hoag. It was extremely tight, but never missed a beat. My TGO1 is extremely tight, and has been 100% reliable.

For the kind of money these builders get, one would hope their products wouldn't rattle when you shake them, and reliability should be a given.
What I've found is that all of the gunsmiths I have dealt with are great when it comes to taking your money. Some are better than others when it comes to backing their work. And then there is Nighthawk, who will accuse a customer of lying and tell him he should have read the warranty better.

garander
02-26-2013, 18:15
I do not think the tightness of the Baer 1911s make them less reliable per say just too damn hard to cycle the action by hand. I don't think I need a gym workout to load a 1911!

I see no need to make them that tight myself. It's a heck of a mechanical achievement for Baer to make them that tight and they still function but just not what I prefer in a 1911.

My baer sure is tight! But after 1000 rounds it now has that ball bearing feeling. I cant believe a 200 swc with 4.5 gr of bullseye unlocks that gun with the stock spring.

Officer's Match
02-26-2013, 21:38
AFAIC, a good running Baer will flat out ruin you for anything else (off the shelf).

SilverState
02-27-2013, 00:53
Les Baer is a very respected builder, and without firsthand experience I don't see why anyone would want to pass on that kind of rumor.

This is an internet forum where people pass along information. If I wanted to dump on the builder, I would have claimed that I had one and that it was garbage. How would anyone know that what I was saying was not true? Instead, I was very honest about owning and having owned two of the three guns at issue. And to answer the question before it was asked, the reason I never bought a Baer is because I had heard about the tightness and the need to run a few hundred rounds through it before being completely reliable. That is why I made the decisions I made, and I shared that information to someone asking about those three particular builders. Do you own any one of the three guns in question? I also have a Rock River bobtail commander, I think the only one they ever made, and it took about a year to build, but I did not mention that gun because RRA is not building them anymore, so it is not very relevant to the query at issue.

bac1023
02-27-2013, 02:51
Wilson mags are ok,......Tripp mags are better!

Tripp mags are very good.

glock2740
02-27-2013, 08:02
There's not a Baer that was ever made that is as tight as a SACS Pro. Personally, I don't see the need to build guns that tight, as I have guns that alot smoother and no less accurate. Just my .02, but since I own one or more of everyone of the guns that have been mentioned so far in this thread, with the exception of the SACS TGO, I do have .02 to contribute with hands on experience. :cool: Personally, of the 3 originally mentioned and a few others that have been thrown into the mix, you will not/can not, go wrong with ANY of them. It solely comes down to your personal preferrances of looks, features and brand name loyality.

MD357
02-27-2013, 08:33
There's not a Baer that was ever made that is as tight as a SACS Pro.

Not that it matters, but that's not true. In terms of tightness the 1.5 guns take the cake. I agree that there's little need for it, but they take it up a notch.

I haven't owned a Les Baer, but I hear they come too tight (if that is possible) and require a few hundred rounds before they can be reliable

"Hearing" and experiencing are two different things. :cool:

Short Cut
02-27-2013, 09:15
You know what's odd, MD. My std. TRS is tighter than my 1.5" Ulitimate Master Combat. The UM is more accurate and I can remove the barrel bushing by hand. :dunno:

MD357
02-27-2013, 09:24
You know what's odd, MD. My std. TRS is tighter than my 1.5" Ulitimate Master Combat. The UM is more accurate and I can remove the barrel bushing by hand. :dunno:

Don't doubt it. I learned that there are few absolutes in 1911s. My STD TRS is tighter than the last Pro I shot and it's well north of 5K rounds. A vast majority of 1.5 guns I have experience with were "too tight" IMO and I've always felt Pros and run of the mill Baers were just fine, but no "tighter" than one or the other. YMMV.

Tightest gun I ever felt was an older Baer Hardball gun, dunno how that thing broke out of lock up.

faawrenchbndr
02-27-2013, 09:54
The more I learn about 1911s,
I learn I need to learn a CRAP LOAD more!

38 Super Fan
02-27-2013, 10:33
Not that it matters, but that's not true. In terms of tightness the 1.5 guns take the cake. I agree that there's little need for it, but they take it up a notch.


Yep, I can't speak to the Pro, but my old PII was definately tighter than my TGO1. It was the tightest 1911 I've ever seen and it wasn't even a 1.5 gun either.

NoAllies
02-27-2013, 21:53
Really, another absolute value 1911 that should be looked into is Dan Wesson, specifically the valor with the duty treatment finish. You get all the goodies, and hand fitting that all the "bigger" names do, and you can get the duty treated for around the same price of the Les Baers you can get through Crazy John, and you can get the standard stainless for $3-400 less than the cheapest Baer. Out of these two, I'd prefer the Dan Wesson. In my opinion, the only reason one could consider Baer over Dan Wesson is because Baer uses carbon steel, if that matters to you. Dan Wesson is strictly forged stainless steel, or forged aluminum. The Baer's blueing is thin and shows wear if you look at it hard. The finish that Baer does do very well is hard chrome and it is very durable, in either bead blasted or satin finish, which is satin flats and bead blasted rounds. This is a $300 option with him. The duty coat that dan wesson utilizes is a molecular bonding that actually changes the surface of the metal, needless to say, it's tough as nails. You should read the review that Dave Severns did on a couple Baers, Dan Wessons, and a Springfield.

http://forums.1911forum.com/showthread.php?t=321236

All that said, I own a couple of each, and while the Baer's pull on my heartstrings because they are manufactured where I was born, I still give the edge to Dan Wesson. You can not beat the value found in Wessons.

I own a couple Wilsons, and they have been flawless. To me, Wilson is the semi-custom that is closer to a full on custom. So many options, nearly limitless. If you know where to buy, they can be pretty affordable. I've only ever had questions for customer service, whom referred me to a tech/smith a couple times. All were very courteous, in true "southern" fashion. The prices can be somewhat steep, but again, these guys can do almost anything and everything. If you have them do everything, it's going to cost an everything price. The Armor Tuff finish does eventually show wear when holstered a lot. Thankfully, I've found holsters that prevent these issues by using teflon linings. Frontline holsters, check them out if you like.

I'm in the process of ordering my first Guncrafter. From everything I have read, these seem to be an incredible value, and if they live up to that, I am sure my home will see many more of these coming in. Again, I love a tough as nails finish, and the Melonite will surely live to that standard.

I've owned Browns, and they are the only ones I've ever sold. Not because they weren't fantastic pistols, but I am not a fan of stainless steel. It tends to exhibit this phenomenon commonly referred to as "peening" (which really is not peening by metallurgy standards). That said, this "peening" I have only ever experienced in stainless steel semi automatic's, including the Brown pistols (yet curiously excluding my Dan Wessons which have 5-6k rounds through them). When I have dealt with this with Mr. Brown, he has been a complete jerk. Then he pulled his stunt at the shot show to a guy whom I quite respect, and that was the end of it for me. The Browns have left the vault.

So there ya have it, all in my opinion of course.

faawrenchbndr
02-28-2013, 06:47
A Dan Wesson is a great value,......but it is not a Baer.

glock2740
02-28-2013, 06:54
Really, another absolute value 1911 that should be looked into is Dan Wesson, specifically the valor with the duty treatment finish. You get all the goodies, and hand fitting that all the "bigger" names do, and you can get the duty treated for around the same price of the Les Baers you can get through Crazy John, and you can get the standard stainless for $3-400 less than the cheapest Baer. Out of these two, I'd prefer the Dan Wesson. In my opinion, the only reason one could consider Baer over Dan Wesson is because Baer uses carbon steel, if that matters to you. Dan Wesson is strictly forged stainless steel, or forged aluminum. The Baer's blueing is thin and shows wear if you look at it hard. The finish that Baer does do very well is hard chrome and it is very durable, in either bead blasted or satin finish, which is satin flats and bead blasted rounds. This is a $300 option with him. The duty coat that dan wesson utilizes is a molecular bonding that actually changes the surface of the metal, needless to say, it's tough as nails. You should read the review that Dave Severns did on a couple Baers, Dan Wessons, and a Springfield.

http://forums.1911forum.com/showthread.php?t=321236

All that said, I own a couple of each, and while the Baer's pull on my heartstrings because they are manufactured where I was born, I still give the edge to Dan Wesson. You can not beat the value found in Wessons.

I own a couple Wilsons, and they have been flawless. To me, Wilson is the semi-custom that is closer to a full on custom. So many options, nearly limitless. If you know where to buy, they can be pretty affordable. I've only ever had questions for customer service, whom referred me to a tech/smith a couple times. All were very courteous, in true "southern" fashion. The prices can be somewhat steep, but again, these guys can do almost anything and everything. If you have them do everything, it's going to cost an everything price. The Armor Tuff finish does eventually show wear when holstered a lot. Thankfully, I've found holsters that prevent these issues by using teflon linings. Frontline holsters, check them out if you like.

I'm in the process of ordering my first Guncrafter. From everything I have read, these seem to be an incredible value, and if they live up to that, I am sure my home will see many more of these coming in. Again, I love a tough as nails finish, and the Melonite will surely live to that standard.

I've owned Browns, and they are the only ones I've ever sold. Not because they weren't fantastic pistols, but I am not a fan of stainless steel. It tends to exhibit this phenomenon commonly referred to as "peening" (which really is not peening by metallurgy standards). That said, this "peening" I have only ever experienced in stainless steel semi automatic's, including the Brown pistols (yet curiously excluding my Dan Wessons which have 5-6k rounds through them). When I have dealt with this with Mr. Brown, he has been a complete jerk. Then he pulled his stunt at the shot show to a guy whom I quite respect, and that was the end of it for me. The Browns have left the vault.

So there ya have it, all in my opinion of course.
Great post. I agree about the Valor with the duty finish being one of the best dollar for dollar 1911's out there. I recently traded off my DW CCO, but still have my DW Guardian, both with that finish. Best value 1911's I've owned. Guncrafter, IMO, is building the best 1911 for the money out there right now though. The DW does have some hand fitting, but it's still a production gun and while a great gun, the Guncrafter is definately a step above, to say the least. You'll enjoy the one you have coming and I bet it won't be your last. :cool: And welcome to the forum. :wavey:With the 1911 experience you have, you should check out 1911 Addicts some time. I think you'd enjoy that place too. :)

BJHXDM3.8
02-28-2013, 12:27
I haven't owned a Les Baer, but I hear they come too tight (if that is possible) and require a few hundred rounds before they can be reliable. I have owned a Brown, own several Wilsons, and own a Rock River that took about a year to make (bobtail commander), back when they did custom 1911 jobs. Other than my Rock River, I prefer Wilson Combat's CQBs, when it comes to 1911s.

This is BS. My Concept V is tight as heck and has never
failed from the first shot.

Bren
02-28-2013, 12:56
I don't get the high-dollar 1911 thing at all. I prefer them to be as plain as possible, because I want to do my own custom work on them. My ideal 1911 is a plain Colt, Springfield or just about anything with a decent reputation. Unless it's a gift, I'll never own a "designer" label gun, unelss the label is my name.

faawrenchbndr
02-28-2013, 13:28
Some people are happy with a Chevrolet Caprice.
Some people are happy with a Cadillac Deville.
Some people are happy with a Mercedes E Class.

MD357
02-28-2013, 13:37
I don't get the high-dollar 1911 thing at all. I prefer them to be as plain as possible, because I want to do my own custom work on them. My ideal 1911 is a plain Colt, Springfield or just about anything with a decent reputation. Unless it's a gift, I'll never own a "designer" label gun, unelss the label is my name.

If you think any of the above are "designer" label then it shows an amount of ignorance on your part in terms of what these guns entail. Nothing personal, it just cracks me up when people feel the need to comment when they obviously just don't have the experience to judge.

faawrenchbndr
02-28-2013, 13:47
Play nice MD'.........:rofl:

MD357
02-28-2013, 13:54
Play nice MD'.........:rofl:

All I'm sayin is that I don't pay Snap-on prices for all my tools, but I definitely understand there are those that do and have a need for it, as they get used more. :cool:

SpringerTGO
02-28-2013, 14:03
I don't get the high-dollar 1911 thing at all. I prefer them to be as plain as possible, because I want to do my own custom work on them. My ideal 1911 is a plain Colt, Springfield or just about anything with a decent reputation. Unless it's a gift, I'll never own a "designer" label gun, unelss the label is my name.

If a person enjoys wrenching on his own cars, I doubt he's a customer for Rolls Royce.

Decades ago I bought a Gold Cup, and sent it off to James Hoag several times to make it what I considered a better 1911. In the end, I probably spent more money on that Gold Cup (in today's $'s) than my TGO1. My TGO1 is a better 1911, as delivered out of the box.

Out of curiosity Bren, how do you feel about $250,000 Purdey shotguns? Fred Wells, when he was alive? Holland and Holland?

faawrenchbndr
02-28-2013, 15:49
All I'm sayin is that I don't pay Snap-on prices for all my tools, but I definitely understand there are those that do and have a need for it, as they get used more. :cool:

I hear what you are saying.......I like a bone stock Springer GI,
just like I like a full custom build. However, I like them & use them
for different reasons. Seems a lot of people like to knock a $3k+
custom gun. A friend does that a lot, he is a cheap *** Taurus lover.
However, he drives a $86k Mercedes. I respect his opinions, as he does mine.

NoAllies
02-28-2013, 18:40
This thread has digressed quite nicely, so I'll say my piece and then try to bring it back on track.

The average person doing their own customizing will still never achieve the fit and finish, or the accuracy of a custom or semi-custom gun. These guns we have listed here are not designer label guns. Designer label guns are Kimbers, Sigs, and SA's that people drool over. They are expensive, yet still affordable to most people...and in the eyes of some buyers, justifiable.

The only reasons I could see a person saying that they'll never own a semi-custom or custom is because they enjoy tinkering, and they just don't know how much better a gun can be. Put one of my guns in a nay-sayers hand and I don't care how much garage tooling they have done on their pistol, they will want to keep mine instead of theirs. Tinkering is fun and all, but in reality, youll never get the fit and precision of a semi-custom/custom. People dig on high end guns primarily because they dont understand what is so much better, or they just can not afford them so they opt to dig at them instead.

I tinker on some guns, and my latest project is a Ruger SR9c. Lower end guns like this is about where I know my abilities end. Yes, I have tried building a high end 1911 before, but the sad fact is, I don't have the tooling, experience, or the time to devote to learning to do it right. Me paying $2k-5k for a gun is completely justifiable as it would take me 500 hours or more to complete a gun at the Wilson level. That comes out to $10 an hour. My time is way more valuable than that, and so is nearly everybody elses.

This is a very good read on what it takes to turn an off the shelf gun into a true quality gun. This is work that semi-customs and custom shops do. Does your garage gun get this kind of attention? Most likely not.

http://forums.1911forum.com/showthread.php?t=318234

http://forums.1911forum.com/showthread.php?t=320041


A Dan Wesson is a great value,......but it is not a Baer.
Hey, I'm speaking from experience buddy. My Baers have been fantastic, but the fact is, they have tons of tooling marks and straight up poor machining ( http://i28.tinypic.com/fnfd5u.jpg ), and despite what people say, they are too tight. This is why when you buy a 1.5" gun from him, they are looser. Fact. Dave Severns review brought this to my attention, so I had to get a 1.5" to verify. I ended up buying two of them, just because I wanted to completely verify that most generally the 1.5" guns are looser fitted than the standard 3" gun. Both guns use tool steel, and forged frames/slides. Wesson uses a lot of Ed Brown parts, which are very high quality. Baer parts are very high quality as well, so I'm not trying to knock him at all. I really think you should scroll down to the shootout results in that thread I showed you. You'll be shocked to see that a standard off the shelf Dan Wesson Valor shot a .99" group at 25 yards off ransom, and the 1.5" Baer shot 1.01" at 25 yards off ransom. This would lead to reason that the Valor when shot out to 50 yards would still fall within the 1.5" that the Baer is claimed to shoot.

http://forums.1911forum.com/showthread.php?t=321236

Don't be deceived, this Valor production gun is no joke, and I'd take one before a Baer pretty much any day. All the Baer has over Dan Wesson is name prestige.

faawrenchbndr
02-28-2013, 19:03
.....
Hey, I'm speaking from experience buddy......




Decaf is your friend Brother! I never said you were talking out your arse!
I know all about DW, Baer, Brown, Springfield & Guncrafter.

And I could give a **** less about some info that comes from 1911Forum!
The mods there delete any posts that are a wee bit negative toward the
manufacturer at hand! So that place is a joke, plin, pure & simple!

Rinspeed
02-28-2013, 19:07
As Fred Kart is fond of saying "Stainless steel is great for pots and pans"

NoAllies
02-28-2013, 19:27
They make cocaine in decaf??

Lol, I kid. Sorry, wasn't trying to sound as arrogant as that post came off.

I agree, 1911forum is a joke. The threads I linked though are not biased in any fashion, and the guys doing the reviews, Joe Chambers and Dave Severns wouldn't print something if it were not true and fact, no matter what forum they post on.

Rinspeed
02-28-2013, 19:34
Joe Chambers and Dave Severns wouldn't print something if it were not true and fact, no matter what forum they post on.



I wouldn't be to sure about that, everyone makes a mistake once in a while.

glock2740
02-28-2013, 19:53
I don't get the high-dollar 1911 thing at all. I prefer them to be as plain as possible, because I want to do my own custom work on them. My ideal 1911 is a plain Colt, Springfield or just about anything with a decent reputation. Unless it's a gift, I'll never own a "designer" label gun, unelss the label is my name.
If that's you thought on upper end 1911's then why even post in this thread? Especially with a post like that? :dunno: And if your 1911's are so great, then why don't you open up a custom shop and start taking some work? :upeyes:

faawrenchbndr
02-28-2013, 19:54
They make cocaine in decaf??

Lol, I kid. Sorry, wasn't trying to sound as arrogant as that post came off.

I agree, 1911forum is a joke. The threads I linked though are not biased in any fashion, and the guys doing the reviews, Joe Chambers and Dave Severns wouldn't print something if it were not true and fact, no matter what forum they post on.

Damn dude,.....I have a DW, it's a great gun. But,......there are
better, & Baer is one of them. I also have a gun that Chambers
just finished some work on. A while back a Valor was a best buy
now, it's a bit overpriced. You have your opinion, I have mine.

faawrenchbndr
02-28-2013, 19:55
They make cocaine in decaf??

.



Just wanted to get that in a quote........

bac1023
02-28-2013, 20:14
I don't get the high-dollar 1911 thing at all. I prefer them to be as plain as possible, because I want to do my own custom work on them. My ideal 1911 is a plain Colt, Springfield or just about anything with a decent reputation. Unless it's a gift, I'll never own a "designer" label gun, unelss the label is my name.

To each their own...

bac1023
02-28-2013, 20:17
Damn dude,.....I have a DW, it's a great gun. But,......there are
better, & Baer is one of them. I also have a gun that Chambers
just finished some work on. A while back a Valor was a best buy
now, it's a bit overpriced. You have your opinion, I have mine.

I agree with you, Greg.

I like my Dan Wessons, but they are what they are. They used to be some of the best values around, buyt prices have gone up quite a bit.

NoAllies
02-28-2013, 20:19
Lol at the remark about cocaine in a quote. I haven't had a cup of coffee today, and cocaine did not get on my list of consumables today either. I did have an excess amount of Brussel sprouts. Maybe they made me a bit froggy.

So, I am curious what, in your eyes, makes a Baer better?

bac1023
02-28-2013, 20:20
Really, another absolute value 1911 that should be looked into is Dan Wesson, specifically the valor with the duty treatment finish. You get all the goodies, and hand fitting that all the "bigger" names do

Good guns, but I think you're getting a bit carried away.

faawrenchbndr
02-28-2013, 20:29
Must be the sprouts.......:rofl:

Hmmmmmm, what makes a Baer better.
Sear fitment
Better hammer
Better slide fit
Better grip safety fit
Better barrel fit
Better barrel bushing fit
Better quality of checkering
Better trigger break

What makes a DW good,
Over all finish, wether it be stainless or Duty Coat
Forged slide
Forged frame
No MIM


My DW

http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c341/faawrenchbndr/DW%20Specialist/DSC01322.jpg

Short Cut
02-28-2013, 20:37
^ also Baer uses the best barrel in the business imho and that is a Kart.

NoAllies
02-28-2013, 21:08
Yeah, I do agree about the Baer barrel. But how do you disregard the fact that the cheaper Valor shot tighter groups at 25 yards than the 1.5" guarantee Baer did? This is from a ransom rest, so there's no real way for a person to debate that test. Same goes for the slide fit, barrel fit, and barrel bushing fit...the Valor shot tighter groups, so all that stuff is trivial. I also agree that the Baer checkering is better, as it's actually hand performed...not machined.

My DW's exhibit spectactular grip safety fitment, as well as very nice slide/frame fit, and a nearly perfectly fit barrel. My triggers are very crisp, I have no complaints with them.

I'm willing to bow out of this one, because as DW's are still a production gun, maybe mine are a bit better examples of what can come out of that factory, and there is one of mine that stands out as exemplary. Out of the Baers I've owned, each one has shown up to me in absolutely fantastic fitment.

As Wesson wasn't even part of this thread, I apologize for bringing it up and letting it dominate the past couple pages. Please accept my apology, OP.

faawrenchbndr
02-28-2013, 21:15
Stir the **** pot then bow out? Figures!

I've yet to see a DW compare to a Baer! If Valor's grip safety fit
is up, to you standards as being "spectacular" you need some new glasses Brother!

Go troll somewhere else.......cause you have not proven squat! :wavey:

Ruggles
02-28-2013, 21:26
All of this going back and forth who makes a better 1911 question is a waste. There are real and important questions that must be answered. Like this for example:


http://i47.tinypic.com/214duea.jpg

or

http://i45.tinypic.com/9r21wy.jpg

Now this matters :supergrin:

NoAllies
02-28-2013, 21:27
Wow, who needs to lay off the caffeine?

I said mine was spectacular, it is a part they hand fit. Maybe I had a very meticulous tech working on it?

Maybe I should be more specific and say that for it's price range, it is spectacular.

Just because I actually have a life and don't have time to accumulate 27,000+ posts on a forum does not mean I'm a troll. I was bowing out to be courteous, and trying to keep this thread about it's intent...which is Baer, Brown, and Wilson.

Why don't you grow up, learn some propriety, then come back to the forum world when you don't feel a need to flex your internet muscles.

bac1023
02-28-2013, 21:29
All of this going back and forth who makes a better 1911 question is a waste. There are real and important questions that must be answered. Like this for example:


http://i47.tinypic.com/214duea.jpg

or

http://i45.tinypic.com/9r21wy.jpg

Now this matters :supergrin:

:rofl::rofl::rofl:

bac1023
02-28-2013, 21:33
Wow, who needs to lay off the caffeine?

I said mine was spectacular, it is a part they hand fit. Maybe I had a very meticulous tech working on it?

Maybe I should be more specific and say that for it's price range, it is spectacular.

Just because I actually have a life and don't have time to accumulate 27,000+ posts on a forum does not mean I'm a troll. I was bowing out to be courteous, and trying to keep this thread about it's intent...which is Baer, Brown, and Wilson.

Why don't you grow up, learn some propriety, then come back to the forum world when you don't feel a need to flex your internet muscles.

Hey, you just joined this month. Let's see how many posts you have after being here ten years! ;)

Seriously, I'm glad you got a really good Dan Wesson, but generally, I just don't think they are up to the standards of Wilson, Baer, Brown, Guncrafter, etc...

NoAllies
02-28-2013, 21:57
I can respect 10 years on a forum. Active members with years of experience like yourself are what make forums tick. Without active, loyal members, they fall apart.

In general, I agree with you. Baers are built like tanks, and they are incredibly solid. My DW doesnt have that solid feel, not sure why. All I was trying to point out is that quality of most parts used between Baer and DW are pretty comparable, as most DW parts are Brown parts. Baers do receive more hand work, and have better barrels...frame/slide fitment is tighter as well as some other small parts having tighter fitment. I am no metalurgist, and without knowing what grade stainless or carbon is used for the frames/slides, its impossible to compare the two.

Baers I've bought go for around $1700-2200, and there is no doubt that in that price range, even on up to $2800...they are the best out there. My DW's cost me $1300-1400, and it was impossible to go wrong with them at that price, but as pointed out earlier, DW has gone up in price.

For those interested, Crazy John has quite a stock of Baers in, and he is clearing out his Browns at incredible prices.

Ruggles
02-28-2013, 22:02
I can respect 10 years on a forum. Active members with years of experience like yourself are what make forums tick. Without active, loyal members, they fall apart.

In general, I agree with you. Baers are built like tanks, and they are incredibly solid. My DW doesnt have that solid feel, not sure why. All I was trying to point out is that quality of most parts used between Baer and DW are pretty comparable, as most DW parts are Brown parts. Baers do receive more hand work, and have better barrels...frame/slide quality, well, I am no metalurgist, and without knowing what grade stainless or carbon is used, its impossible to compare the two.

Baers I've bought go for around $1700-2200, and there is no doubt that in that price range, even on up to $2800...they are the best out there. My DW's cost me $1300-1400, and it was impossible to go wrong with them at that price, but as pointed out earlier, DW has gone up in price.

For those interested, Crazy John has quite a stock of Baers in, and he is clearing out his Browns at incredible prices.

Kindly stop telling me about 1911s on sale please.....I am weak willed and you are not helping :supergrin:

glock2740
02-28-2013, 22:18
In general, I agree with you. Baers are built like tanks, and they are incredibly solid. My DW doesnt have that solid feel, not sure why. All I was trying to point out is that quality of most parts used between Baer and DW are pretty comparable, as most DW parts are Brown parts. Baers do receive more hand work, and have better barrels...frame/slide quality, well, I am no metalurgist, and without knowing what grade stainless or carbon is used, its impossible to compare the two.


This totally contradicts everything you have posted up to this point. Don't crawfish if you believe what you've said so far. As I stated earlier, the DW is a great gun for the money. That value has lessened, as their prices have risen at an even higher rate than that of other 1911's. Also I have stated earlier, DW makes a production gun. Period. It may be one of, if not the best production 1911 out there and a great value for what it is. But it is not a semi-custom/custom 1911. Period. That may be an opinion to some, but it's pretty much a fact. But then again, what would I know, as I only have 16,000+ posts on this forum in 5 years. Not the best way to start off as a new member on a forum by insulting multi-year members and then totally backing away from your previous comments. Good luck in the future on here. But not the way I would have started off. That username may end up being quite fitting.

glock2740
02-28-2013, 22:21
http://i47.tinypic.com/214duea.jpg

or

http://i45.tinypic.com/9r21wy.jpg

Now this matters :supergrin:
Damn right it matters. And as a true Texan, you know chili does NOT/better not, have beans! :rofl:

MD357
02-28-2013, 23:12
and I was supposed to start playing nice.....

NoAllies
02-28-2013, 23:31
This totally contradicts everything you have posted up to this point. Don't crawfish if you believe what you've said so far. As I stated earlier, the DW is a great gun for the money. That value has lessened, as their prices have risen at an even higher rate than that of other 1911's. Also I have stated earlier, DW makes a production gun. Period. It may be one of, if not the best production 1911 out there and a great value for what it is. But it is not a semi-custom/custom 1911. Period. That may be an opinion to some, but it's pretty much a fact. But then again, what would I know, as I only have 16,000+ posts on this forum in 5 years. Not the best way to start off as a new member on a forum by insulting multi-year members and then totally backing away from your previous comments. Good luck in the future on here. But not the way I would have started off. That username may end up being quite fitting.
Oh brother...I guess I need to choose my words very carefully around this group because you all pick things apart for more than they are worth. My previous statement should have read more like it does now after editing.

Baers are fit much tighter, and do have better barrels, these things are fact. To say that Baer has better quality small parts in them than DW is not the whole truth as the DW parts are mostly sourced from Brown, and we know Brown does not machine junk. What DW isn't sourcing from brown is still either tool steel or bar stock.

Baer having a tighter slide/frame fit does not make it a better gun.

Baer leaves a lot to be desired when it comes to tooling marks showing throughout the gun.

Baers flagship 1.5" model shot a looser group by .02" than a factory Valor @ 25 yards from a ransom rest.

Baers regular model shot .53" looser groups than the factory Valor.

DW is stainless frame/slide experience "peening", but so do Browns...

DW rarely has tooling marks, and if they do, it's marked down significantly as a blem model.

DW has hammer failures.

Baers have broken slide stops, barrel pins, thumb safeties

Baer uses NM frames and slides - whatever this is supposed to mean - but likely it's supposed to exude quality.

Baers feed ramps are polished better



This list could go on and on. I personally am done with it and am done with this thread. You all can bicker it out. I have absolutely no more to say. I've owned em all, and have my preferences, because I have a different way of seeing things.

All I can say, at the old DW prices around $1350 average and baer at a low of $1750 for a PII, I would choose the DW all day long and spend the extra money on a new hammer and trigger job. Now, with DW's in duty coat at $1800 and Baer TRS's at $2100 in hard chrome, I probably would walk away from them both and go with a Guncrafter for a bit more. In fact, that's exactly what I just did.

glock2740
03-01-2013, 00:22
Baers flagship 1.5" model shot a looser group by .02" than a factory Valor @ 25 yards from a ransom rest.

Baers regular model shot .53" looser groups than the factory Valor.

I've seen this "test" that you keep referring to. The results between those brands will vary every time. Those guns on that day had those results. To keep referring to that one test, as it is the gospel, is ridiculous. Also, I too, own everyone of the guns that have been discussed and then some, so I have quite a bit of hands on experience to base my own opinions on.

MD357
03-01-2013, 00:42
Baer uses NM frames and slides - whatever this is supposed to mean - but likely it's supposed to exude quality.


It means it doesn't have Chinese roots? Unlike others.


Give up on the "tooling marks" it's just beyond retarded to try to pick apart a Baer for supposedly having significant tool marks and then question frame and slide fit importance and quality. Honestly, if you really care, then you need to have your mancard pulled immediately.

Feel free to review a 25K+ round Baer report and explain to me the significance of any of your criticisms you've posted so far.

http://forums.1911forum.com/showthread.php?t=273937

This is not to take away from DW but I'd love to see one after 25K rounds.

bac1023
03-01-2013, 01:56
Yeah, while I don't have near that many rounds through any of mine, I can't see a DW holding up like a Baer.

faawrenchbndr
03-01-2013, 06:56
Wow, who needs to lay off the caffeine?

I said mine was spectacular, it is a part they hand fit. Maybe I had a very meticulous tech working on it?

Maybe I should be more specific and say that for it's price range, it is spectacular.

Just because I actually have a life and don't have time to accumulate 27,000+ posts on a forum does not mean I'm a troll. I was bowing out to be courteous, and trying to keep this thread about it's intent...which is Baer, Brown, and Wilson.

Why don't you grow up, learn some propriety, then come back to the forum world when you don't feel a need to flex your internet muscles.


They sell CLUE at WalMart,.....go buy one, you really need to have one.