ATF F 3310.4 - Multiple Sale reports (Backdoor Registration) [Archive] - Glock Talk

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jdeere_man
02-22-2013, 23:06
If you don't know this already exists you should.

Part of the 1986 FOPA (Firearm Owners Protection Act, Ironic huh) forbade the US Govt from keeping a registry directly linking non-NFA (sbr/sbs/full auto/supressers, etc) to their owners. In other words if you went and bought any "normal", "regular" gun they were not suppose to keep a registry of it.

You should know if you buy two or more pistols or revolvers (does not apply to Long guns) in a five day period the FFL is required to submit this form (ATF F 3310.4) to the ATF, along with the CLEO (Chief Law Enforcement Officer for your area, in my case a Sheriff). The copy to the CLEO is destroyed by them as required by law if you are not prohibited. However the copy sent to the ATF is entered into the FTS (Firearms Tracking System). The data includes manufacturer, caliber, serial number, your name and address, etc. (All the good stuff they want)

I already knew this, but I was reminded today when I went to pick up some guns I had transferred in. I'm already on their big list of evil gun owners for some NFA stuff anyway so what's another form, but just an FYI

M2 Carbine
02-23-2013, 00:03
I thought we all knew this, even though most FFL dealers won't tell you.
I'm glad you brought it up.

Just in the recent couple months I've delayed buying four handguns (at the same dealer) because of this "backdoor registration". I buy one and the dealer puts the other one back until I buy it a week or so later.


Now I didn't know the Sheriff was supposed to destroy his record.





.

jdeere_man
02-23-2013, 00:11
It's difficult to delay them when they come as transfers. I've had dealers in the past that might have done things like pre and post date paperwork to avoid the extra form, but if they did I have no knowledge of such.

I think some people do know it, and probably on here many more, but I'm surprised how many people I know who own guns that assume they registered their guns when they bought it even though there is no registration process in existence (well except this backdoor multiple sale form).

In regards to CLEO copy, from the form itself...

Instructions to CLEOs receiving Copy 2 of this form: 18 U.S.C. 923(g)(3)(B) provides in part that you certify in writing every six months that no disclosures have been made and that the multiple sales forms on non-prohibited persons have been destroyed by the CLEO as required by law. The following statement can be used for this purpose: "I hereby certify on behalf of (your specific agency name) that for the period of six months (give specific dates) there have been no disclosures of Multiple Sales Forms contrary to the provisions of the Brady Handgun Violence Protection Act, and that all forms and any record of the contents thereof have been destroyed as provided by the law." This statement is to be dated and on your agency letterhead, signed by the proper official and forwarded by the CLEO to: U.S. Department of Justice, Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives, National Tracing Center, P.O. Box 0279, Kearneysville, WV 25430-0279.

ratf51
02-23-2013, 06:15
I did not know this. Thanks for the info.

Spiffums
02-23-2013, 06:50
Buying more than 1 gun at a time.........why can't I have problems like these:crying::crying:

Bruce M
02-23-2013, 07:55
Buying more than 1 gun at a time.........why can't I have problems like these:crying::crying:
:rofl::rofl:

Nakanokalronin
02-23-2013, 08:55
According to my local shop who I trust and have been going to for at least 2 decades, it's not how many handguns you buy in a certain time period but how many you actually pick up. For example, I can buy 10 handguns at a time, but if I go in and pick up anymore than 1 a week, the shop might report it.

Rancher
02-23-2013, 09:33
Bought an LCR and an LCP within a week of each other and had the form done by the guy at the pawn shop I go to. Did not give it a second thought. Don't really care either. I don't own the LCP anymore. Sold it, private sale to my BIL who is a state trooper. Hope he don't use it as his "throw down" piece (joking)!

Last month bought another G17 and next day bought a LE6920, check went through fine but the M4 I got at WM and the associate doing my paperwork had quite a wait after giving my info to them. That is when I figured they only did the form if you bought more than two handguns within a certain time frame.

Next time I'm at the shop gonna ask the owner what he does with the extra forms. Sheriff at the time owns the ranch just north of mine. Will ask him if the ever had to deal with the forms. Pawn shop guy did could tell had did it before, no big deal to him.

Rancher

jdeere_man
02-23-2013, 10:28
According to my local shop who I trust and have been going to for at least 2 decades, it's not how many handguns you buy in a certain time period but how many you actually pick up. For example, I can buy 10 handguns at a time, but if I go in and pick up anymore than 1 a week, the shop might report it.

I think that is correct. It has to do with how many they transfer to you in 5 days. Whatever is on 4473's is what triggers the extra form.

So I guess I should have been more clear in my OP. You could buy 5 at once and string the pickups out over the course of a month.

Omaha-BeenGlockin
02-23-2013, 11:15
Put them on lay-a-way and leave it so you only owe a penny----pick up at your leisure.

railfancwb
02-23-2013, 11:52
4473 has to be as of the date you pick the gun(s) up. Found that out one time when the dealer or state computer system was down and I had to come back the next day for the NCIS check. There is a place on the 4473 where one signs to indicate nothing has changed since it was originally completed.


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bustedknee
02-23-2013, 13:07
Wake up and let me be the first to break the news.

The government does not keep a list of everyone that has bought a gun. :scared:

However,

The government requires dealers maintain this list for them.



It is a government scam that requires the people maintain the list that the people have forbidden the government to have.
:shakehead:


We are sooo stupid.

jdeere_man
02-23-2013, 13:13
Wake up and let me be the first to break the news.

The government does not keep a list of everyone that has bought a gun. :scared:

However,

The government requires dealers maintain this list for them.



It is a government scam that requires the people maintain the list that the people have forbidden the government to have.
:shakehead:


We are sooo stupid.

Yes but as of right now that isn't easily searchable or traceable like the submissions on Form 3310.4 because those go directly into the computer system. Paperbooks scattered out all over the country isn't as scary, but none the less inappropriate IMO.

Yetispeaks
02-23-2013, 13:23
Great thread, thanks guys!

banger
02-23-2013, 19:31
Ehhhh guys,

Every time you buy a firearm, they run a "N.I.C.S." check don't they?

The information get entered and than what...it goes away.

Have you ever tried to delete anything from you personal computer?

Not easy is it, files, registries, files on deleted files etc..

Betcha a dollar, they can recover all the info if they want to.

WebSnyper
02-23-2013, 19:49
Ehhhh guys,

Every time you buy a firearm, they run a "N.I.C.S." check don't they?

The information get entered and than what...it goes away.

Have you ever tried to delete anything from you personal computer?

Not easy is it, files, registries, files on deleted files etc..

Betcha a dollar, they can recover all the info if they want to.

However during a NICS check, the dealer only indicates whether it is a handgun, long gun, etc I believe. The dealer does NOT provide the serial number during the call.

The dealer does keep track of the serial number on the forms that the dealer is required to keep. The normal way this is tracked down is if the gun is used in a crime and recovered, then the LE agency contacts the manufacturer, who provides info on the distributor, who provides info on the shop, who can then provide the info on the original purchaser. After that, the trail usually ends.

The reporting of the serial number is apparently different during the multiple purchase scenario.

railfancwb
02-23-2013, 21:54
Looking at the official 4473, it does require the gun's serial number.

http://www.atf.gov/forms/download/atf-f-4473-1.pdf


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railfancwb
02-23-2013, 21:55
The serial number is necessary to see if the gun has been reported as stolen, BTW.


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TK-421
02-23-2013, 22:25
Buying more than 1 gun at a time.........why can't I have problems like these:crying::crying:

:agree:

WoodenPlank
02-23-2013, 22:56
Looking at the official 4473, it does require the gun's serial number.

http://www.atf.gov/forms/download/atf-f-4473-1.pdf


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It's on the 4473, but not part of the NICS check. As someone mentioned earlier, the only firearm info reported during a standard NICS check is handgun or long gun. That can differ in states with more restrictive laws, obviously.

JakeFromStateFarm
02-24-2013, 02:24
You mean the goverment has been lieing to us?! They would never.....

aircarver
02-24-2013, 06:47
You mean the goverment has been lieing to us?! They would never.....

Nev-rrrrrrrr .......

They're here to help ...... :upeyes:

.