Collector/Sports car between 20 and 45K? [Archive] - Glock Talk

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WEATHERBY460
04-27-2013, 07:29
I am ready to buy a sports car. I want this car to be timeless and be proud to drive it for many years. This will be driven very seldom, so I wont be adding many miles on it.

I am having a hard time trying to decide. I was leaning towards a vette, but then considered a Camaro ZL1....I think I might even consider a GT500 (sounds like its a better car then the ZL1) I might just get a Camaro SS...but I also like older stuff also......please give me some ideas...I am open to anything

Dan_ntx
04-27-2013, 07:55
That budget can get you into some much nicer older cars. For exapmle, around here the C3 Corvette (68 to 82) is a hot entry collector market. You can get into a nice one for $15k or less and get a taste of the culture to see if it's for you.

If I were looking to jump into that hobby I would stay away from new or late model cars. Much less collectible and much more expensive. I would also stay away from project cars (to start with) because of the time and expense required to get them on the road.

Good luck deciding, have fun looking!

OrangeJoe
04-27-2013, 08:00
I am ready to buy a sports car. I want this car to be timeless and be proud to drive it for many years. This will be driven very seldom, so I wont be adding many miles on it.

I am having a hard time trying to decide. I was leaning towards a vette, but then considered a Camaro ZL1....I think I might even consider a GT500 (sounds like its a better car then the ZL1) I might just get a Camaro SS...but I also like older stuff also......please give me some ideas...I am open to anything

You say "sports car" but you mention some muscle cars.

Timeless + Sports Car = Porsche in my book, there is no substitute.

Some flavor of 911 perchance.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus

Hotsteelcoldbeer
04-27-2013, 08:17
Lot's of options in that price range. I would love a Lotus Elise. The higher end of your budget would get a Morgan 3 wheeler. Those look like huge fun.

Bill Powell
04-27-2013, 08:54
There are Ferraris you can get in that price range. You want to go fast, or look cool, or both?

I know it's not totally correct but when I think sports car I think 2 seat convertible, roadster, or coupe.

camelotkid
04-27-2013, 08:59
get something older that doesn't need any work. If it were my money I'd be looking for a 68 mustang fastback before they all get bastardized in to knock offs of a GT350

jbotstein1
04-27-2013, 09:03
Low Mileage 2000-2003 Honda S2000. Only produced for 9 years and many are being wrecked by kids who can now afford them. A pure drivers car. 2 seat roadster, direct connection to the road and a 9k rpm redline in a little 4 banger. Timeless design too.

Z71bill
04-27-2013, 09:07
I would start off deciding --

You want something that is a collector - all original - all factory.

Or

Something that is just really cool to drive - puts a smile on your face - and if it happens to be a 1969 vehicle with a 2012 engine & transmission you don't care.

3glkdog
04-27-2013, 11:14
You can be be diffrent from everyone else, Ferrari 308 or 328, for a little more you can get a Testarossa.

Cameros, Vettes, and Muskrats. The engine is in the wrong place, too American and they're everywhere.

Bill Powell
04-27-2013, 11:26
The Ferrari 308 Dino is front engine, 4 pass car, just like a Camaro.

3glkdog
04-27-2013, 11:30
The Ferrari 308 Dino is front engine, 4 pass car, just like a Camaro.

Did I say anything about a Dino? I should have say Magnum PI. so everyone would understand.

hpracing007
04-27-2013, 11:42
Acura NSX
Porsche Cayman
Porsche 911
BMW M3
MB SLK55

erick73
04-27-2013, 11:46
Dodge Viper

Spiffums
04-27-2013, 11:48
Don't get nothing you wont wanna kill someone over when they ding it if you drive it. One reason I will never have a cherry 1969 Chevelle SS.......it's not worth the prison time to me.

Z71bill
04-27-2013, 12:00
Don't get nothing you wont wanna kill someone over when they ding it if you drive it. One reason I will never have a cherry 1969 Chevelle SS.......it's not worth the prison time to me.

I bought my 69 Chevelle SS 396 when I was a Jr in high school - cost me $1,400 -

Sold it 6 years later - for $400 - it was in need of a lot of small stuff and needed another engine rebuild -

I wish I would have just stuck it in storage.

gatorboy
04-27-2013, 12:43
collector: DeLorean or other odd-ball types. DeLorean was only in production for two years.

real sports car: used Cobra kit car. Should be able to get a nice one for close to $45K. Older corvette, maybe get an anniversary edition for more collector value.

One is'nt a real sports car, the other will never be a collector. The corvette could be collectable if it's all stock. For both in one vehicle I'd agree with an older Porshe or Ferrari in that price range.

camelotkid
04-27-2013, 12:46
A lot of you guys are recommending cars that a few years worth of maintenance would cost more than the car itself. How much would a tune up on a Ferrari be by chance?

vikingsoftpaw
04-27-2013, 12:57
a lot of you guys are recommending cars that a few years worth of maintenance would cost more than the car itself. How much would a tune up on a ferrari be by chance?

~$2500.

LASTRESORT20
04-27-2013, 13:10
*Collector/Sports car

I have always liked the 1970 Buick Stage-1 455 (Sleeper)

http://www.barrett-jackson.com/staging/carlist/items/Fullsize/Cars/137696/137696_Front_3-4_Web.jpg
http://www.thelastdetail.com/galleria_images/528/528_main_f.jpg

http://www.shevelles.com/publishImages/1970-Buick-GSX-Stage-One~~element33.jpg

To me...Flat out Cool! :)

Hamilton Burger
04-27-2013, 13:14
I bought my 69 Chevelle SS 396 when I was a Jr in high school - cost me $1,400 -

Sold it 6 years later - for $400 - it was in need of a lot of small stuff and needed another engine rebuild -

I wish I would have just stuck in in storage.

I have essentially the same story involving a '67 Mustang. What was I thinking.

Hamilton Burger
04-27-2013, 13:16
I just looked today at an overbored '79 MGB. I actually like the big RBB bumper. Alas I no longer bend to fit such a car. :crying:

GVFlyer
04-27-2013, 13:20
I'm very happy with my Honda S2000.

http://i444.photobucket.com/albums/qq166/GVFlyer/xm813/Hondas2000.jpg

kiole
04-27-2013, 13:23
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/4b/2007_Lotus_Elise_SC.JPG

Lotus Elise I really want one, i hear its like driving a street legal go kart.

If your looking for a pure straight line fast car for a decent price an aftermarket super charger on a C6 corvette is hard to beat.

Rabbi
04-27-2013, 13:31
If you are going to make a lifestyle/toy choice like this...before you do anything, why not find the car you are passionate about? (whatever that may be)

It sounds like you can see yourself doing this but dont know how. Spend some time developing the "how" before you spend the money.

Each car has its own flavor and attracts certain kinds of attention and opportunities. What do you want the car for? To enjoy weekend drives? To be a part of that kind of car club? To fix up? To race? To show off? To have something to look at in the garage?

For example, maybe you wont like Ferrari people. Maybe you wont like Muscle car people. (whatever kind of car people) Those considerations are important if you want the community benefits that come with owning a type of car.

Some cars draw a lot of negative/strange attention for the general public. People get @#%& strange and flat out ass holish when they see certain cars and rush to involved their opinions in your life. As an anecdote, it seems that older cars draw less of this and newer sports type cars draw more of this...and cheaper, older high end brand name cars draw the most negative attention....like the cheap older Ferrari, it seems like people are on a mission to insert their opinions of your "wannabe" status...even if they have never even sat in a Ferrari.

Dont just pick a car, decide on what you want from a car and/or what car you are passionate about.

3glkdog
04-27-2013, 13:32
A lot of you guys are recommending cars that a few years worth of maintenance would cost more than the car itself. How much would a tune up on a Ferrari be by chance?

To change a belt on my Testarossa was $8000.00, luckily the previous owner had it done before he sold me the car. I heard that it could cost up to $11,000. They have to remove the engine to change the belt.

Rabbi
04-27-2013, 13:39
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/4b/2007_Lotus_Elise_SC.JPG

Lotus Elise I really want one, i hear its like driving a street legal go kart.

If your looking for a pure straight line fast car for a decent price an aftermarket super charger on a C6 corvette is hard to beat.

I chronicled my experience with the one I had on here many moons ago.

The Elise is a neat car and fairly affordable on the used market....just know, it is small and rough. That can get old if you want to drive the thing. Also know, if you are used to something powerful (be that a Vette or the like) the Elise will seem disapointing. It may be "quick" to some...but it isnt.

I am of the opinion, if you are not wealthy but have a few bucks for a fun toy, used Corvettes are pretty much the best value choice. If you want to really get some horsepower, yep, Used Corvettes are the value choice again.

You wont have a lot of exclusivity in a Corvette and you will be sitting at every third stop light looking over to see a doctors wife or a middle aged CPA in one, but for fun to value, they are hard to beat.

vart
04-27-2013, 13:43
$20k to $45k and collectible/sporty weekend only driver is too broad. You could get anything from a new Boss Mustang to an unrestored older Lamborghini or Ferrari...

However, since you specifically mentioned the Corvette, Camaro, and Shelby...

My local Ford dealer has a mint 2008 Shelby GT500 w/ 6k miles on it for $45k...



http://www.allcarcentral.com/Ford/Ford_Shelby_GT_500_2008_sf-as-2008_9EE_0057.jpg


If you are trending towards the Mustang/Camaro genre and want something that is unique and will be collectible and sought after for generations, then I would look at the Bullitt Edition and Boss Mustangs...

http://www.clevelandleader.com/files/08.ford_.mustang.bullitt.f34.500.jpg



http://www.carfab.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/Mustang-Boss-302.jpg

gatorboy
04-27-2013, 13:54
The Elise is a neat car and fairly affordable on the used market....just know, it is small and rough. That can get old if you want to drive the thing. Also know, if you are used to something powerful (be that a Vette or the like) the Elise will seem disapointing. It may be "quick" to some...but it isnt.


Definately. It's 1,600#, that's why it's "quick" and they do handle great. Not a good choice for a 300# guy that has his 130# wife along often. It's best for smaller/lighter people who's weight won't take 1/2 second or more off it's 0-60. A vette would definately track better on longer drives.

vart
04-27-2013, 14:04
The main problem with Shelbys and Corvettes, and mustangs, Camaros, and challengers is that when you take your Sunday drive in your collectible car, you will see another car almost like the one you are driving...

Here in AZ, you can't throw a rock without hitting a corvette. At least once a month, I see a line of them going down the highway on a weekend fun cruise...

Now, if you want to be a little more exclusive yet still drive something that is fairly reliable and will draw thumbs-up every time you drive it, then perhaps an older classic American two-seater like an older T-Bird or Studebaker Golden Hawk...

http://www.portholeauthority.com/thunderbirdETC/tbird/photos/torch57_8.jpg


http://www.studebakerpictures.com/pics/Studebaker.1961.Hawk.jpg

Taphius
04-27-2013, 14:15
Restore a 240z chassis and drop a big block in it

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I317 using Tapatalk 2

xRUSTYx
04-27-2013, 14:17
I'm a Mopar fan ... I vote for an SRT10 Viper. This is mine, and it just so happens to be for sale ;)

http://images.autotrader.com/scaler/544/408/images/2013/4/23/344/886/31096302738.344886282.IM1.MAIN.565x421_A.565x376.jpg

ysr_racer
04-27-2013, 14:18
Do I understand the OP correctly, he wants us to pick out something he can be passionate about?

Has America sunk that low?

Rabbi
04-27-2013, 14:19
Do I understand the OP correctly, he wants us to pick out something he can be passionate about?

Has America sunk that low?

While I dont see it as any statement on America or even the OP....yes, I agree that is his question.

vart
04-27-2013, 14:33
Do I understand the OP correctly, he wants us to pick out something he can be passionate about?

Has America sunk that low?

I agree it is highly subjective...

I am passionate about some very odd vehicles that not many people admire...

If I see one of these on the road, it makes my heart palpitate and brings a smile to my face...

1970 Torino GT, 1968 Oldsmobile Vista Cruiser, and 1966 F100...

Jack_Pine
04-27-2013, 14:37
We are going through this same thought process. Looking at retirement with house in Fl. Would be fun to have a "fun" car.

I think it needs to be rag top. I am thinking older muscle car. Sports car would be cool, but I am not small and also cost of maintenance.

Spend a lot of time watching Mecum. There are a lot of "drivers" in the 20-40k range.

Bill Powell
04-27-2013, 15:04
I've been waiting for someone to call me on the 'front motor' description on the 308 Dino. Guess they aint gonna.

Here is the Lamborghini that can be had for the low end of that price range.

Rabbi
04-27-2013, 15:08
I've been waiting for someone to call me on the 'front motor' description on the 308 Dino. Guess they aint gonna.

Here is the Lamborghini that can be had for the low end of that price range.

I actually had to google it when you said it was a 4 seater....I cant remember the last time I saw one and for a second I thought....no way that thing is a four seater. Of course it is. I forgot all about the Mondial being the replacement for that Fiat... :supergrin:

John_NJ
04-27-2013, 15:18
20-45K is a pretty wide range. Lot's to be had for that kind of money. If looking at late model domestic, I would go with a Boss Mustang. Outstanding handling and plenty of power. The GT500 is overkill in my opinion. Also a newer C6 Corvette can be had for that kind of money.

If looking foreign, I've always been interested in a V10 powered BMW M5. Also a Jaguar XKR is something that has classic good looks. Both of these have plenty of power.

Happy shopping!

gatorboy
04-27-2013, 15:51
Do I understand the OP correctly, he wants us to pick out something he can be passionate about?

Has America sunk that low?


What's your favorite color? I'm looking for mine, wanted some input.

Just kidding. I'm sure the guy know's what he like's and is asking for the one's he's overlooked and asking those who may have experience with them. I ASSume. :cool:

vart
04-27-2013, 16:28
Weekend fun car? V8 power? Reasonably cheap maintenance? Under $40k? Unique and likely won't see another one parked in the antique store and diner parking lot?

http://monterey-ca.americanlisted.com/cars/1999-shelby-cobra-replica_18232891.html

$37k

http://images1.americanlisted.com/nlarge/1999_shelby_cobra_replica_24677265.jpg

kiole
04-27-2013, 16:33
http://chivethethrottle.files.wordpress.com/2011/09/ffr-gtm-500-0904010038wtmk.jpg

Used GTM kit car can be had for that kind of money also

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Replica-Kit-Makes-GTM-GTM-Factory-Five-Racing-/230968889298?pt=US_Cars_Trucks&hash=item35c6d18fd2#ht_500wt_1182

vart
04-27-2013, 16:38
Good quality Lamborghini replica...

http://lamborghinireplica.com/ForSale/for%20sale%20Mercielago%20021113.htm



http://lamborghinireplica.com/ForSale/Mercielago%20021113%20(7).jpg


http://lamborghinireplica.com/ForSale/Mercielago%20021113%20(2).jpg

HollowHead
04-27-2013, 16:45
Sky Redline or Solstice GXP. If you want true exclusivity, try if you can to find the GXP coupe. Very rare, and GM's eliminating Pontiac caused their price to plummet. HH

GT4494
04-27-2013, 17:39
If you are going to make a lifestyle/toy choice like this...before you do anything, why not find the car you are passionate about? (whatever that may be)

It sounds like you can see yourself doing this but dont know how. Spend some time developing the "how" before you spend the money.

Each car has its own flavor and attracts certain kinds of attention and opportunities. What do you want the car for? To enjoy weekend drives? To be a part of that kind of car club? To fix up? To race? To show off? To have something to look at in the garage?

For example, maybe you wont like Ferrari people. Maybe you wont like Muscle car people. (whatever kind of car people) Those considerations are important if you want the community benefits that come with owning a type of car.

Some cars draw a lot of negative/strange attention for the general public. People get @#%& strange and flat out ass holish when they see certain cars and rush to involved their opinions in your life. As an anecdote, it seems that older cars draw less of this and newer sports type cars draw more of this...and cheaper, older high end brand name cars draw the most negative attention....like the cheap older Ferrari, it seems like people are on a mission to insert their opinions of your "wannabe" status...even if they have never even sat in a Ferrari.

Dont just pick a car, decide on what you want from a car and/or what car you are passionate about.

:agree:

Otherwise you end up like me Daily Driver is a VW TDI, Have a Model A to cruise slow and profile in a Mustang GT (1984) modified to go fast and a pickup truck to use for "honey doos"

Each vehicle has a unique purpose. So do some soul searching to find out what your real purpose is and how much you will be driving it. That all makes a difference in what you end up with.

Landmonster
04-27-2013, 18:42
I chronicled my experience with the one I had on here many moons ago.

The Elise is a neat car and fairly affordable on the used market....just know, it is small and rough. That can get old if you want to drive the thing. Also know, if you are used to something powerful (be that a Vette or the like) the Elise will seem disapointing. It may be "quick" to some...but it isnt.

I am of the opinion, if you are not wealthy but have a few bucks for a fun toy, used Corvettes are pretty much the best value choice. If you want to really get some horsepower, yep, Used Corvettes are the value choice again.

You wont have a lot of exclusivity in a Corvette and you will be sitting at every third stop light looking over to see a doctors wife or a middle aged CPA in one, but for fun to value, they are hard to beat.

Rabbi, do you feel like a used Vette trumps everything for horsepower?

How about 98-2002 Camaro or Trans Am LS1? You can find a really nice one for $10k-15k.

How about a 2003-2004 Mustang Cobra "Terminator"? You can find a sweet one for $25k.

If you like older fixer upppers... how about a Fox body Mustang? 89-93... prices vary all over the place, depending on condition and mods.

GT4494
04-27-2013, 19:20
Or the ultimate sleeper. Mercedes 600 SL. V12 twin turbo 500+ hp 500+ torque 180+mph top speed with the acceleration to match. The only ID is the V12 logo on the side.

New $150-200K late model used low mileage less then $50k.

Its all a personal choice.

ChuteTheMall
04-27-2013, 19:41
Maybe a future classic will be cheapest in the very long run.

Honda probably won't make the S2000 again, but Subaru BRZ and Scion FRS are up to something with rear wheel drive and 200 hp boxer motors:

http://pricinginsider.carsdirect.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/scion-fr-s-subaru-brz-head-to-head-header.jpg


2.0-liter Boxer flat four-cylinder
200 hp, 151 lb-ft. torque
22 city/30 highway mpg
1/4 mile (Motor Trend)=14.8 sec @ 94.3 mph
0-60 mph (Motor Trend)=6.2 seconds

2013 Scion FR-S
$24,930
2013 Subaru BRZ
$26,245

:car:

copo9560
04-27-2013, 20:06
If you want true modern performance, a Dodge Viper or Corvette C6 Z06 can be had on the used market in the upper range of your $$ - most of these are garage queens and in fantastic shape. Like any late models, these will loose money for a few years but likely will be worth something in the future as neither were produced in huge numbers. Both are a blast to drive and have huge potential to be significantly faster if you are willing to add some performance parts.

If its classics, hard to beat the 67-70 Muscle and Pony cars from Detroit. 69 Mach I Musting, SS Camaro or 70 Challenger in good shape will get far more attention than any of the modern versions of the same car. Nice thing about these vs foreign sports cars is parts availability and the ability to do most of the work yourself. These days you can build an early Mustang or Camaro from scratch, not that it would be cheap but illustrates the level of parts around.

Daltini
04-27-2013, 20:12
Maybe a future classic will be cheapest in the very long run.

Honda probably won't make the S2000 again, but Subaru BRZ and Scion FRS are up to something with rear wheel drive and 200 hp boxer motors:

http://pricinginsider.carsdirect.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/scion-fr-s-subaru-brz-head-to-head-header.jpg


2.0-liter Boxer flat four-cylinder
200 hp, 151 lb-ft. torque
22 city/30 highway mpg
1/4 mile (Motor Trend)=14.8 sec @ 94.3 mph
0-60 mph (Motor Trend)=6.2 seconds

2013 Scion FR-S
$24,930
2013 Subaru BRZ
$26,245

:car:

swap in an LS series engine and youre golden ;)

jtull7
04-27-2013, 20:20
I'm sorry, but I believe that I read that the OP wanted a sports car that would be timeless.

In my opinion, timeless sports cars are foreign. Jaguar XKE. Aston Martin. Triumph. Porche. Even a lowly MG.

Not Corvettes. God help us, not a Mustang or any muscle car or a rice-burner. My opinion only.

Here's a sports car:

http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t107/jtull8/scan0025.jpg (http://s158.photobucket.com/user/jtull8/media/scan0025.jpg.html)

Hauptmann6
04-27-2013, 20:50
I just saw an orange 280z for sale about 5 blocks from me.

Batesmotel
04-27-2013, 23:15
1993 Porsche 911 Type 964.
The last of the upright headlights.

BEANCOUNTER
04-28-2013, 00:21
Sky Redline or Solstice GXP. If you want true exclusivity, try if you can to find the GXP coupe. Very rare, and GM's eliminating Pontiac caused their price to plummet. HH

I like my GXP but my wife hates it.

Like many of the cars discussed in this thread, the Sky and Solstice have their own internet forums. If you are considering either of these cars you want to visit their forum first.

The Solstice and Sky are orphans - their forums are essential for keeping them from becoming expensive lawn ornaments. By now there is probably nothing that can go wrong with these cars that hasn't already been posted, diagnosed and resolved. Some forum members are extremely knowledgable about the care and maintenance of these cars, including aftermarket parts and tunes.

These cars are fun to drive, especially the Red Line and GXP. They are toys that will put a smile on your face, but if you need a back seat, trunk space for more than a toothbrush, or a place to put your cell phone, you may want to look elsewhere.

RJ's Guns
04-28-2013, 00:22
Or the ultimate sleeper. Mercedes 600 SL. V12 twin turbo 500+ hp 500+ torque 180+mph top speed with the acceleration to match. The only ID is the V12 logo on the side.

New $150-200K late model used low mileage less then $50k.

Its all a personal choice.



I used to collect MB AMG autos. Several times I have seriously considered purchasing a 2-3 year old SL65 or a CL 65 AMG and each time I would bring one in for a pre-purchase inspection, my local area MB dealer service manager would warn me to stay clear of the MB V-12 twin turbo as they are problematic and expensive to repair. The moral to the story on a MB V-12 twin turbo is; never let one get out of warranty.

RJ

Rabbi
04-28-2013, 01:27
Rabbi, do you feel like a used Vette trumps everything for horsepower?

How about 98-2002 Camaro or Trans Am LS1? You can find a really nice one for $10k-15k.

How about a 2003-2004 Mustang Cobra "Terminator"? You can find a sweet one for $25k.

If you like older fixer upppers... how about a Fox body Mustang? 89-93... prices vary all over the place, depending on condition and mods.

No, I was not playing the game of "trumps" I was playing the game of value. Not cheapest. Not best, but value.

I think, for an overall value, (looks, chassis, exclusivity, performans...whatever) A used Vette wins. It isnt the best at any of those things, and being the "cheapest" would exclude it from being some of those things...but overall, it is a hard choice to beat.

Sure you can make pony cars just as "fast" but they lack a lot of things you get in the vette. Sure, a TT Viper is faster but it isnt as good a value.

Some people buy what they can (the proverbial, "I could buy a beat up old mustang and for a lot cheaper make it faster than *that* car...)

Some people buy what they want (I bought it because that is what I want, end of story) This is the luckiest guy because no matter what choice he makes, he can make anyone he wants. Everyone else is limited.

Some people buy for value (I wanted this, that and this...and this car can do some of all of that....)

vart
04-28-2013, 01:54
Another kind of cool, unique, weekend type car would be the Plymouth Prowler...

Haven't seen one in a long time...

Take off the ghey front bumpers and they look pretty good...

http://www.omniauto.it/awpImages/photogallery/2012/14980/photos1280/plymouth-prowler_3.jpg

Hauptmann6
04-28-2013, 06:09
Another kind of cool, unique, weekend type car would be the Plymouth Prowler...

Haven't seen one in a long time...

Take off the ghey front bumpers and they look pretty good...

http://www.omniauto.it/awpImages/photogallery/2012/14980/photos1280/plymouth-prowler_3.jpg

And that's all they do is look. No performance to back it up.

DanaT
04-28-2013, 06:38
If you want to spend $45k on a "sports car" and want it as an investment:

Porsche 993.

Mark my words, if you dont buy one in 10 or 20 years you will be saying..damn he is right...that car really went up in value.

Right now I see that car as THE modern collectors car

tarpleyg
04-28-2013, 07:41
I'm in the same boat. Next summer I will be in the market for a car that'll be my weekend driver. I've settled on a Cadillac CTS-V. Probably going to have to get a 2009 since they are in my price range but if I stumble on a 2010 that's in my price range I'm all over it. Have you considered one?

wrx04
04-28-2013, 08:01
It depends what you want: All around drivers car vs muscle car

If it were my money, id look at a 2010 M3, Audi RS4, or Lotus Elise.

For muscle cars.....GT500 or a vette.

I had an '08 M3 and it was an AMAZING car. It wasnt the fastest or most powerful, but was the complete package. Until you get into the true sports cars, the M3/RS4 are hard to beat IMO.

My brother has a '13 Mustang GT......on paper the stats are identical to the M3. After driving both, the BMW blows the stang out of the water when it comes to overall driving experience.

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GVFlyer
04-28-2013, 09:33
It depends what you want: All around drivers car vs muscle car

If it were my money, id look at a 2010 M3, Audi RS4, or Lotus Elise.

For muscle cars.....GT500 or a vette.

I had an '08 M3 and it was an AMAZING car. It wasnt the fastest or most powerful, but was the complete package. Until you get into the true sports cars, the M3/RS4 are hard to beat IMO.

My brother has a '13 Mustang GT......on paper the stats are identical to the M3. After driving both, the BMW blows the stang out of the water when it comes to overall driving experience.

https://imageshack.us/scaled/large/694/img0544j.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photos/my-images/694/img0544j.jpg/)Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)


The M3 is my personal choice, but they're God-awful expensive. Here's ours.

http://i444.photobucket.com/albums/qq166/GVFlyer/xm813/019.jpg

http://i444.photobucket.com/albums/qq166/GVFlyer/xm813/008.jpg

http://i444.photobucket.com/albums/qq166/GVFlyer/xm813/012.jpg

We only took the leap because we wanted the last of the NA V-8s.

vart
04-28-2013, 10:21
And that's all they do is look. No performance to back it up.

We were fortunate enough to be able to test out a 2000 Plymouth Prowler at the Poconos Raceway test track. Though our run was brief, we were able to compare it to a number of other notable carshttp://images.intellitxt.com/ast/adTypes/icon1.png (http://www.allpar.com/model/prowler.html#), and it came out rather well. For sheer performance, it's hard to beat a Corvette or M5; but for both style and performance, the Prowler stands above.

Original is at The Plymouth Prowler - information and review (http://www.allpar.com/model/prowler.html#ixzz2Rm6qr8Kx) http://www.allpar.com/model/prowler.html#ixzz2Rm6qr8Kx
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50/50 weight distribution and 253hp for 2800lbs is not NO performance.

In fact, it has the same 0-60 and 1/4 mile times as the Lotus Elise mentioned earlier in this thread...

Would you say that the Lotus has no performance?

gatorboy
04-28-2013, 19:33
50/50 weight distribution and 253hp for 2800lbs is not NO performance.

In fact, it has the same 0-60 and 1/4 mile times as the Lotus Elise mentioned earlier in this thread...

Would you say that the Lotus has no performance?

Like the Elise, there is very little substance to the Prowler. It's a sports car but reminds me of a naked super-bike in a way but I love the Ducati Monster and Triumph Triple; so not really the same. Even worse (you'll hate me for this), it reminds me of those new Can-Am Spyder's with two wheels in the back instead of one.

A nice 65-68 Mustang from someplace far from the ocean and where they don't salt the roads would be very rewarding to work on. If you make it really fast and handle really well, it won't be a collector but it will gain in value with low miles and a roof over it's head at night.

BOOSTED12A
04-28-2013, 20:14
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/34/72016331_6d36b03083.jpg

wrczx3
04-28-2013, 20:16
I would go for a 1989 Pontiac Trans Am Turbo pace car or a used Corvette Z06.

BOOSTED12A
04-28-2013, 20:24
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c1/Volvo_P1800_mfd_1965_1780cc_Essex.JPG

pizza_pablo
04-28-2013, 20:43
I too like the Honda S2000.

The 370Z is pretty awesome, too.

If it's a muscle car you want, remember, the new Camaros and Mustangs turn AND stop. :D

Sent on Outdoor Hub, from my RAZR Mini.

Bill Powell
04-29-2013, 07:34
The Volvo P1800 and the Mercedes 190 SL have one thing in common. They're both drop dead gorgeous and they both have about 20 HP.

ChuteTheMall
04-29-2013, 07:52
The Volvo P1800 and the Mercedes 190 SL have one thing in common. They're both drop dead gorgeous and they both have about 20 HP.

Variations on a theme..........1973 Opal GT looked futuristic back then.

http://i42.tinypic.com/2ahcsyd.jpg

http://i40.tinypic.com/33uen4p.jpg

M&P15T
04-29-2013, 09:11
The main problem with Shelbys and Corvettes, and mustangs, Camaros, and challengers is that when you take your Sunday drive in your collectible car, you will see another car almost like the one you are driving...

Yeah? So? Who gives a **** about what other cars are on the road? If I'm driving a car that is a great driving experience, I couldn't care less if every other vehicle I see on the road is identical to mine.

Here's a hint; there's many BMW 3 Series and Mustang 5.0s on the road for a reason.

Christ, the reason for owning a sports car is the driving experience, not caring what other people think.

GVFlyer
04-29-2013, 09:27
I've always thought that the Mazda RX-7s were pretty cool. The little bugger had 276 HP and barely tipped the scales at 2,500 lbs.

It's the one in the foreground.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/67/C11%2BFD3S_spR.jpg

Here's another one.

http://www.modifiedstreetcars.com/files/styles/1280x1024/public/cars/Mazda-rx7-1146.jpg?itok=p0aUPAMr

You have to be careful with red ones though; they'll drive you up a tree.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_wekRpCfMbvY/TRn3lnebUuI/AAAAAAAAAo8/ATPkcIY4Nik/s1600/Mazda-TOP.jpg

Sorry, couldn't help it.

:cool:

WEATHERBY460
04-29-2013, 14:47
Found a nice 2004 Corvette....60,000 miles...$20,000.

Drove it today, not many scatches on it....I would of purchased if I could get the price closer to $18.

Honestly I think I want the newer style, and think I will find one eventually in the low 20's with lower miles then this one.

Im still looking

JMS
04-29-2013, 15:43
Found a nice 2004 Corvette....60,000 miles...$20,000.

Drove it today, not many scatches on it....I would of purchased if I could get the price closer to $18.

Honestly I think I want the newer style, and think I will find one eventually in the low 20's with lower miles then this one.

Im still looking

http://www.flemingsultimategarage.com/index.htm

moeman
04-29-2013, 17:37
Hanging out with some hotties in NOLA a Corvette drives by and all four girls start talking about how the driver must have a small one.

Plan accordingly.

Atlas
04-29-2013, 17:52
Hanging out with some hotties in NOLA a Corvette drives by and all four girls start talking about how the driver must have a small one.

Plan accordingly.


If you order your life based on what some random idiots say...

And if they make such assumptions about someone driving by simply because of which car he's driving, they're clearly complete and total idiots.

Green70
04-29-2013, 17:55
Yeah? So? Who gives a **** about what other cars are on the road? If I'm driving a car that is a great driving experience, I couldn't care less if every other vehicle I see on the road is identical to mine.

Here's a hint; there's many BMW 3 Series and Mustang 5.0s on the road for a reason.

Christ, the reason for owning a sports car is the driving experience, not caring what other people think.

I don't post very often as I tend to enjoy watching the circus that transposes in nearly every thread lately in the GT lounge.

It's like watching a group of chimpanzees turn on each other over a banana...:rofl:

However, as a connoisseur of some of the finer things in life, I do enjoy a spirited discussion regarding sports cars and collector cars in general.

Vart had a valid point in that the majority of people who collect and enjoy vehicles tend to seek exclusivity.

Even among Corvette clubs there are those who desire to have the rare option that the other guy does not have.

If you are not one of those people who enjoys or values individuality, then by all means buy your M3 or Mustang, and continue to shop at Wal-Mart and eat at McDonalds.

The world depends on people like you to continue their predictability...:cool:


I will continue to enjoy driving a vehicle I know I will not park next to another one other than at a car show...

Rabbi
04-29-2013, 17:56
Hanging out with some hotties in NOLA a Corvette drives by and all four girls start talking about how the driver must have a small one.

Plan accordingly.

No matter what choice you make, there is someone against it.

Cars are a perfect example.

The corollary to such a statement is, the pretty observationally true idea that the guy in a the cool car gets the chick.

So, you can have a woman who has amassed a lot of data on the wangs of many men...or a chick that digs cars.

Choose wisely. :supergrin:

capnjim01
04-29-2013, 18:06
Maybe a future classic will be cheapest in the very long run.

Honda probably won't make the S2000 again, but Subaru BRZ and Scion FRS are up to something with rear wheel drive and 200 hp boxer motors:

http://pricinginsider.carsdirect.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/scion-fr-s-subaru-brz-head-to-head-header.jpg


2.0-liter Boxer flat four-cylinder
200 hp, 151 lb-ft. torque
22 city/30 highway mpg
1/4 mile (Motor Trend)=14.8 sec @ 94.3 mph
0-60 mph (Motor Trend)=6.2 seconds

2013 Scion FR-S
$24,930
2013 Subaru BRZ
$26,245

:car:

Yeah turbocharge like the STI 300+ hp

Atlas
04-29-2013, 18:11
Yeah turbocharge like the STI 300+ hp

And you know that's coming.. probably the next model year.
And there will of course be aftermarket kits..


To my eye, the BRZ is far more appealing than the Scion.


.

GVFlyer
04-29-2013, 18:11
When I lived in Cali I used to date a girl who was a horse trainer for Paramount Studios. She was tall and good looking, think Françoise Hardy in Grand Prix, and very outspoken. She told me that she thought that Corvettes were very phallic and that old guys bought them as compensation when they can't get it up any more. She said that every time she sees an old guy in a corvette, she feels like yelling out to him, "I'm sorry about your p*nis!"

Atlas
04-29-2013, 18:13
When I lived in Cali I used to date a girl who was a horse trainer for Paramount Studios. She was tall and good looking, think Françoise Hardy in Grand Prix, and very outspoken. She told me that she thought that Corvettes were very phallic and that old guys bought them as compensation when they can't get it up any more. She said that every time she sees an old guy in a corvette, she feels like yelling out to him, "I'm sorry about your p*nis!"


Female logic...


.

ChuteTheMall
04-29-2013, 18:24
Female logic...


.

We used to think girls who were a little too much into horses were compensating for something....

moeman
04-29-2013, 18:25
No matter what choice you make, there is someone against it.

Cars are a perfect example.

The corollary to such a statement is, the pretty observationally true idea that the guy in a the cool car gets the chick.

So, you can have a woman who has amassed a lot of data on the wangs of many men...or a chick that digs cars.

Choose wisely. :supergrin:

I agree... but when the hotties went on about the guy in the vette my first reaction was "umm maybe he just likes fast cars". Instead, I went on how I drive a small fast car and when the hotties found out it is a convertible they went on about how convertible driving men are best at oral sex. True story.

Who was I to refute that???!!!

One of the hotties I met emailed me and wants to visit... but that's not gonna happen from my end.

moeman
04-29-2013, 18:34
If you order your life based on what some random idiots say...

And if they make such assumptions about someone driving by simply because of which car he's driving, they're clearly complete and total idiots.

I guess it made it past you that I was in NOLA and they were hot! I didn't care what they thought about for the rest of thier life. I did care what they thought about at the end of their hurricanes.

Me, I like vettes but perfer MANY other fast cars. I drive a 5.5L V-8 Merc CLK.

OhioGlock90
04-29-2013, 18:35
My dream car has always been a 65' mustang coupe. Cherry red....... A mustang GT 500 would also be nice.


Posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire (http://www.outdoorhub.com/mobile/)

WEATHERBY460
04-29-2013, 18:39
Good stuff and good things to think about!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Let me narrow my search a little....I want a car that people know what it is...at the same time...be a standout...thats why the corvette is hard to not want.

I watch a lot of "chasing classic cars" and am surprised that I am growing fond of those great vehicles also.

GVFlyer
04-29-2013, 18:43
We used to think girls who were a little too much into horses were compensating for something....

What?

I've dated girls who did dressage on Arabians and another who rode warm blood hunters - they seem pretty normal to me.

tehan2
04-29-2013, 18:55
there are a LOT of good options in that price range, which is a pretty wide range. What you really have to do is sit down and think about what YOU are going to do with the car and what are YOUR expectations from your new purchase.

I'm in a similar situation right now, and have narrowed it down to a few VERY DIFFERENT vehicles ....I'm looking at GTO's, Chevelles, and Roadrunners on one side of the coin, and Porsche and Aston Martin on the other. I'm unsure of which direction I'm going to head yet. I'm selling a Cobra replica and replacing it with whatever I pick and have another '60s "pony" car too. I LOVE old muscle, but love the looks of euro speed and think it may be time for some sophistication

method
04-29-2013, 19:10
I like to mentally speculate on what cars from the last 30 years or so will be collectible in the future.

Corvettes will always have a market, and the C5 really is hard to beat for a reliable, relatively cheap to maintain high performance car. You should check into the '01-'04 Z06, or even the regular Fixed Roof Coupe.

If you wanted to go up market, someone's already mentioned the Porsche 911, which is about as blue chip as it gets. All of them hold their value well, but 996 series cars, from '98--'04 don't seem to be as well loved. Saw a nice looking '02 Carrera on a recent Mecum auction show sell for $24k. Not too many 911's seem to dip into the teens.

I think the 'affordable' Ferrari to buy would be a 456. Yes, technically a GT and not a sports car, but I don't think many would whine too much. Rarer and better looking than a TR, still 12 cylinders so you won't get walked by many contemporary family sedans like you would in a 308, and being front engined, shouldn't be as much a nightmare to service as the mid engine cars. It even has back seats.

Green70
04-29-2013, 20:07
I think the 'affordable' Ferrari to buy would be a 456. Yes, technically a GT and not a sports car, but I don't think many would whine too much. Rarer and better looking than a TR, still 12 cylinders so you won't get walked by many contemporary family sedans like you would in a 308, and being front engined, shouldn't be as much a nightmare to service as the mid engine cars. It even has back seats.

Not true, unfortunately.

The Major tune required about every 15k miles runs around $7k to $10k

Expensive Italian sports cars are still the play things of the wealthy and will always be.

427
04-29-2013, 20:41
3rd Gen 1LE,
Firehawks
Saleen mustangs.
C4 ZR1s, Grand Sport,
LT4 Vettes LT4 Camaro SS and LT4 Firehawks

method
04-29-2013, 21:49
Not true, unfortunately.

The Major tune required about every 15k miles runs around $7k to $10k

Expensive Italian sports cars are still the play things of the wealthy and will always be.

Oh whoops, I didn't think the front mounted engines needed to come out for servicing.

.264 magnum
04-29-2013, 21:56
That budget can get you into some much nicer older cars. For exapmle, around here the C3 Corvette (68 to 82) is a hot entry collector market. You can get into a nice one for $15k or less and get a taste of the culture to see if it's for you.

If I were looking to jump into that hobby I would stay away from new or late model cars. Much less collectible and much more expensive. I would also stay away from project cars (to start with) because of the time and expense required to get them on the road.

Good luck deciding, have fun looking!

Word.

.264 magnum
04-29-2013, 22:02
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/4b/2007_Lotus_Elise_SC.JPG

Lotus Elise I really want one, i hear its like driving a street legal go kart.

If your looking for a pure straight line fast car for a decent price an aftermarket super charger on a C6 corvette is hard to beat.

Killer car if you are about 5'6" or less - absolutely tiny.

skeeter1959
04-30-2013, 23:14
Just got a 2001 Vette with 55K miles. Paid $17,500 + TTL. Always wanted a Corvette. It's our weekend date car (sez the wife). Love the C5 for value and fun factor.

JLB768
05-01-2013, 01:19
When I decided to buy my first sports car, I could have bought a Ferrari, Lambo, or Viper, and at the time, had the money to pay cash, but decided to go with a Corvette C6. I made my choice for a few reasons. One, I have always loved the Corvette. Two, parts are easy to come by, and service won't break the bank. Three, finding a service dept for exotics would be difficult in my area. That said, I am now driving my 4th C6, it still brings a smile to my face, everytime I press that ignition button. Corvette's aren't for everyone, but dollar for dollar, they hold their own with exotics. And they are an absolute blast to drive...

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8502/8303263759_1e2cf71e50_z.jpg

http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5037/5854945905_46e0b5c867_z.jpg

http://farm7.staticflickr.com/6188/6037287644_e8de946001_z.jpg

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8532/8453471419_1f0862c8f5_z.jpg

JMS
05-01-2013, 08:09
When I decided to buy my first sports car, I could have bought a Ferrari, Lambo, or Viper, and at the time, had the money to pay cash, but decided to go with a Corvette C6. I made my choice for a few reasons. One, I have always loved the Corvette. Two, parts are easy to come by, and service won't break the bank. Three, finding a service dept for exotics would be difficult in my area. That said, I am now driving my 4th C6, it still brings a smile to my face, everytime I press that ignition button. Corvette's aren't for everyone, but dollar for dollar, they hold their own with exotics. And they are an absolute blast to drive...

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8502/8303263759_1e2cf71e50_z.jpg

http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5037/5854945905_46e0b5c867_z.jpg

http://farm7.staticflickr.com/6188/6037287644_e8de946001_z.jpg

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8532/8453471419_1f0862c8f5_z.jpg

If I was in the market for an 'affordable' sports car I'd have to go with the Ariel Atom :supergrin:. If money wasn't an object a Ferrari 250 GTO or McLaren F1.

GVFlyer
05-01-2013, 09:13
...If money wasn't an object a Ferrari 250 GTO or McLaren F1.

Porsche 918

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/46/2011-03-04_Autosalon_Genf_1211.JPG/800px-2011-03-04_Autosalon_Genf_1211.JPG

http://blog-imgs-34.fc2.com/i/n/u/inuclutch/918_spyder.jpg

Ferrari LaFerrari

http://www.netcarshow.com/Ferrari-LaFerrari-2014-wallpaper.jpg

http://www.hdwallpapers.in/walls/ferrari_laferrari-wide.jpg

McLaren P1

http://static1.businessinsider.com/image/50d2407a6bb3f7ff58000003-650/mclaren-p1.jpg

http://image.europeancarweb.com/f/european-car-news/mclaren-p1-from-paris/40952050/mclaren-p1-exhaust.jpg

M&P15T
05-01-2013, 09:32
If you are not one of those people who enjoys or values individuality, then by all means buy your M3 or Mustang, and continue to shop at Wal-Mart and eat at McDonalds.

The world depends on people like you to continue their predictability...:cool:


I will continue to enjoy driving a vehicle I know I will not park next to another one other than at a car show...

"Individuality"? Yeah, I've been out of High School & College a few years now, so I guess I couldn't give a **** less about "individualtiy". Nor do I fondle myself, all giddy about how what I drive makes me an "individual".

Here's a hint; What you drive doesn't make you anything....other than a gigantic *********, if you get it juuuuuust right.

But please, carry on with your perceptions. The world of stupid people paying stupid money for stupid vehicles depends on it. And of course, continue trying to judge people by their vehicles....because as we all know, the car makes the man.....right?

Rabbi
05-01-2013, 09:53
"Individuality"? Yeah, I've been out of High School & College a few years now, so I guess I couldn't give a **** less about "individualtiy". Nor do I fondle myself, all giddy about how what I drive makes me an "individual".

Here's a hint; What you drive doesn't make you anything....other than a gigantic *********, if you get it juuuuuust right.

But please, carry on with your perceptions. The world of stupid people paying stupid money for stupid vehicles depends on it. And of course, continue trying to judge people by their vehicles....because as we all know, the car makes the man.....right?

In a way it does.

Every choice you make says something about you. Be it the car you drive or the type of soap you use to how you treat your dog.....and what that says about you is how others see it.

That may or may not matter to someone but it is still true and it can damned well have an effect on your life.

M&P15T
05-01-2013, 10:14
In a way it does.

Every choice you make says something about you. Be it the car you drive or the type of soap you use to how you treat your dog.....and what that says about you is how others see it.

That may or may not matter to someone but it is still true and it can damned well have an effect on your life.

We're not talking about "say(ing) something about you", we're talking about what truly defines a person.

A car? Nope....only *********s defines themself by their car.

A car does not make you anything. Getting behind the wheel of a Gremlin or a 458 Italia does nothing to change the basic nature of a human being.

Hence, a person that is shallow and materialistic, will still be shallow and materialistic behind the wheel of whatever car they happen to find themself behind.

hatidua
05-01-2013, 10:16
I am ready to buy a sports car. I want this car to be timeless

Air-cooled 911.

Rabbi
05-01-2013, 10:23
We're not talking about "say(ing) something about you", we're talking about what truly defines a person.

A car? Nope....only *********s defines themself by their car.

A car does not make you anything. Getting behind the wheel of a Gremlin or a 458 Italia does nothing to change the basic nature of a human being.

Hence, a person that is shallow and materialistic, will still be shallow and materialistic behind the wheel of whatever car they happen to find themself behind.

I disagree.

People react and treat you in a way based on how you present yourself. I dont think we need to have an argument about that.

How people react and treat us often dictates how we act.

I.E. people will treat us in a certain way because of what kind of car we are in. Thus we will react in a certain way because of what kind of car we are in.

Yes, I understand that how we react will be based on what kind of person we already are. (and you touched on that) My point is, the choices we make (in this case what kind of car we drive) will influence what kind of person the world sees.

To some degree, even if mild, over a long period of time, there would be an observable difference in a persons personality if he drove a Rolls Royce over an Altima. Even if it is passive (because of how we react to the world reacting around us) it is still a change.

We cant summarily dismiss that. The choices we make are what cumulatively defines us, even if any given choice defines us in a small way.

M&P15T
05-01-2013, 10:41
I disagree.

People react and treat you in a way based on how you present yourself. I dont think we need to have an argument about that.

How people react and treat us often dictates how we act.

I.E. people will treat us in a certain way because of what kind of car we are in. Thus we will react in a certain way because of what kind of car we are in.

Yes, I understand that how we react will be based on what kind of person we already are. (and you touched on that) My point is, the choices we make (in this case what kind of car we drive) will influence what kind of person the world sees.

To some degree, even if mild, over a long period of time, there would be an observable difference in a persons personality if he drove a Rolls Royce over an Altima. Even if it is passive (because of how we react to the world reacting around us) it is still a change.

We cant summarily dismiss that. The choices we make are what cumulatively defines us, even if any given choice defines us in a small way.

You're trying to give one of your lectures. As ususal, you're jumping into a conversation, and trying to change the subject.

I'm not talking about how other people view a singular person, or about presentation, or impressions. I'm talking about the basics of human beings, their nature.

Stop trying to pontificate on everything. It's tiring watching you stumble over yourself while you try to impress yourself.

DanaT
05-01-2013, 10:50
Air-cooled 911.

This is why I said early in the thread a 993.

Best of the aircooled 911s and already starting to appreciate. Not many cars from the mid and late 90s can say they are starting to go up in value.

They are very limited numbers and are the last "real" 911s built.

When I am actually home more, I am thinking of buying one even though for the same money I could get a faster vehicle, this will be a car that wont lose money.

07 LMB Z06
05-01-2013, 11:01
This is why I said early in the thread a 993.

Best of the aircooled 911s and already starting to appreciate. Not many cars from the mid and late 90s can say they are starting to go up in value.

They are very limited numbers and are the last "real" 911s built.

When I am actually home more, I am thinking of buying one even though for the same money I could get a faster vehicle, this will be a car that wont lose money.

Agreed. I have been browsing 993 Turbos lately and am shocked to see what they are still selling for. There's a guy in my area with a really cool purple one with nice exhaust and probably a few other items. It moves, and it sounds great. Unfortunately those are a little over the OP's budget.

A used Vette or Viper, the highest model you can get in your budget, would be great choices. As others have said though, what you are looking for in a car will really be the deciding factor. Your budget is wide enough to give you a great amount of options.

Here's a few options to get you started:
http://www.cars.com/for-sale/used/chevrolet/corvette/z06/_/N-ma9Zfh1Zg44Zjy3Zm5dZm3m?sf1Dir=DESC&mkId=20053&mdId=20884&rd=100000&zc=60514&PMmt=1-1-1&stkTypId=28881&sf2Dir=ASC&sf1Nm=price&sf2Nm=miles&trId=25851&rpp=50&feedSegId=28705&searchSource=GN_REFINEMENT&crSrtFlds=stkTypId-feedSegId-mkId-mdId-trId-prcId&pgId=2102&prcId=28642

Edit: Just checked cars.com now for fun - 993 Turbo S's are listed from $2-300k...is that accurate?!

Rabbi
05-01-2013, 11:09
You're trying to give one of your lectures. As ususal, you're jumping into a conversation, and trying to change the subject.

I'm not talking about how other people view a singular person, or about presentation, or impressions. I'm talking about the basics of human beings, their nature.

Stop trying to pontificate on everything. It's tiring watching you stumble over yourself while you try to impress yourself.

The bold part...that is pretty much what I said.

Did you impress yourself?

M&P15T
05-01-2013, 11:14
The bold part...that is pretty much what I said.

Did you impress yourself?

I didn't try.

Maybe you could try doing the same....it would be a breath of fresh air to see one of your posts that is but a few simple words, and not endless bloviating.

It's obvious you're impressed with yourself, isn't that enough?

DanaT
05-01-2013, 11:15
Agreed. I have been browsing 993 Turbos lately and am shocked to see what they are still selling for. There's a guy in my area with a really cool purple one with nice exhaust and probably a few other items. It moves, and it sounds great. Unfortunately those are a little over the OP's budget.

<<<<<SNIP>>>>>

Edit: Just checked cars.com now for fun - 993 Turbo S's are listed from $2-300k...is that accurate?!

There are some 993s that are within the 45k he mentioned.

I even found one 993 turbo for $66k.

But that $200-300k is what I have seen prices of Turbo S... remember..very limited production.

The other very valuable one of a 1993 911 RS America. It was a strippedout 911 that was sold a discount price that is now worth a lot more than a "normal" 911 with options.

Rabbi
05-01-2013, 11:16
I didn't try.

Maybe you could try doing the same....it would be a breath of fresh air to see one of your posts that is but a few simple words, and not endless bloviating.

It's obvious you're impressed with yourself, isn't that enough?

I see, you are not going to challenge what I say, just tell us all how you feel about me.

That is understandable, but you are going to have to find someone else to have a purse fight with.

M&P15T
05-01-2013, 11:18
I see, you are not going to challenge what I say, just tell us all how you feel about me.

That is understandable, but you are going to have to find someone else to have a purse fight with.

Correct, I'm not going to challenge what you posted. I've learned to stop feeding trolls....and that is how I view you.

Feeling ain't got nothin' to do with it.

Switch to PMs if you feel the need to continue, we've high-jacked this thread enough.

07 LMB Z06
05-01-2013, 11:22
There are some 993s that are within the 45k he mentioned.

I even found one 993 turbo for $66k.

But that $200-300k is what I have seen prices of Turbo S... remember..very limited production.

The other very valuable one of a 1993 911 RS America. It was a strippedout 911 that was sold a discount price that is now worth a lot more than a "normal" 911 with options.

You're right, non-Turbo 993's do fall within the OP's range. Those Turbo S's are cool, but not $200k+ cool (to me at least - not that I am shopping that price range anyway).

DanaT
05-01-2013, 11:32
You're right, non-Turbo 993's do fall within the OP's range. Those Turbo S's are cool, but not $200k+ cool (to me at least - not that I am shopping that price range anyway).

People buying $200K 993 Turbo S are not buying them to drive..

Collectors cars that they hope will keep going up.

For a driver, the regular turbo is with some tuning is just as good.

DanaT
05-01-2013, 11:37
But that goes to the question of what does the OP REALLY want?

He said collector/sports car.

But maybe he just wants a fun toy as a driver? That is a much different search than a collector/sports car.

A car that will go up also..a Porsche 968. They have already started going up. Never be worth what a 993 (well, unless you happen to have a 968 Turbo RS.. but those are pretty spendy too...and there are only 4)

http://1.1.1.1/bmi/968turbo.homestead.com/968_Turbo_RS_Gooding2.jpg

M&P15T
05-01-2013, 11:38
But that goes to the question of what does the OP REALLY want?

He said collector/sports car.

But maybe he just wants a fun toy as a driver? That is a much different search than a collector/sports car.

A car that will go up also..a Porsche 968. They have already started going up. Never be worth what a 993 (well, unless you happen to have a 968 Turbo RS.. but those are pretty spendy too...and there are only 4)

http://1.1.1.1/bmi/968turbo.homestead.com/968_Turbo_RS_Gooding2.jpg

I think that the OP's description of "collector/sports car" is too vague.

DanaT
05-01-2013, 11:41
I think that the OP's description of "collector/sports car" is too vague.

I agree. What does the OP want to do with the car? Drive it? Garage Quenn? Road Race? Drag Race? Cars and Coffee? Street racing?

Bill Powell
05-01-2013, 11:44
M&P15T, you're wrong. What you drive dictates, daily, how people react to you. I used to manage an antique car museum and we drove a number of different cars home. We could be in a late model divider window Cadillac factory limo and stop at a McDonalds. My daughter would be in the back seat giving the staff a rash of crap that I sure wouldn't tolerate and they would be jumping through their butts trying to please her.

The next night we could be in the Toyota Corolla company car and the reaction from the McDonald's would be "Yeah, what do you want?"

I've driven on the street cars a hundred years old, and Ferraris and Duesenbergs worth over a million dollars apiece and everything in between. Yes, what you are driving does make a difference. It shouldn't, but it does.

This is still part of the deviation from the original thread, but it seemed to apply.

M&P15T
05-01-2013, 12:13
M&P15T, you're wrong. What you drive dictates, daily, how people react to you. I used to manage an antique car museum and we drove a number of different cars home. We could be in a late model divider window Cadillac factory limo and stop at a McDonalds. My daughter would be in the back seat giving the staff a rash of crap that I sure wouldn't tolerate and they would be jumping through their butts trying to please her.

The next night we could be in the Toyota Corolla company car and the reaction from the McDonald's would be "Yeah, what do you want?"

I've driven on the street cars a hundred years old, and Ferraris and Duesenbergs worth over a million dollars apiece and everything in between. Yes, what you are driving does make a difference. It shouldn't, but it does.

This is still part of the deviation from the original thread, but it seemed to apply.

That's not what I was saying. Please re-read my posts for clarity.

M&P15T
05-01-2013, 12:14
I agree. What does the OP want to do with the car? Drive it? Garage Quenn? Road Race? Drag Race? Cars and Coffee? Street racing?

I'm thinking he just wants someting fun to drive that won't lose him a bunch of money, or cost him an arm & a leg to run/maintain.

I vote S2000 or Miata, and mods. Maybe a C6 or 968...and mods.

DanaT
05-01-2013, 12:21
I'm thinking he just wants someting fun to drive that won't lose him a bunch of money, or cost him an arm & a leg to run/maintain.

I vote S2000 or Miata, and mods. Maybe a C6 or 968...and mods.

I am not a big honda fan. Much better than toyota.

But probably the dollar in total ownership price to fun ratio there is no car that can compete with the S2000

Rabbi
05-01-2013, 12:23
That's not what I was saying. Please re-read my posts for clarity.

We can all read your posts. You made an absolute statement. It has been shown that your absolute statement is not true. In both how people act and how people react...even if the change is small. That is also flat out part of the subject of this thread as we try to understand what the OP wants and why he wants it.


You also dont know what a troll is.

Lets see. I have real knowledge and a depth of experience on the subject matter. I contribute based on that. I enjoy the subject matter and I want to help the OP.

Again, we all get how you feel about me but you have not attacked my information, just me.

M&P15T
05-01-2013, 12:47
We can all read your posts. You made an absolute statement. It has been shown that your absolute statement is not true. In both how people act and how people react...even if the change is small. That is also flat out part of the subject of this thread as we try to understand what the OP wants and why he wants it.


You also dont know what a troll is.

Lets see. I have real knowledge and a depth of experience on the subject matter. I contribute based on that. I enjoy the subject matter and I want to help the OP.

Again, we all get how you feel about me but you have not attacked my information, just me.

***SIGH***

The contention that I was discussing with another poster (before you jumped in, changing the subject to suit your view point) is that a car does not elementally change or define a person. This had NOTHING to do with how other people view a person based on what they drive. Your (unwanted) observations are precisely and specifically opposite to what I was opining on.

My contention was that driving a specific vehicle (for a true driving enthusiast) is about the pleasure one derives from the driving experience, NOT what other people think about what they drive.

Certainly, many people ARE more concerned with what/how other people view their vehicles. I find this shallow and stupid, but that's just my none-too-humble opinion.

Then you busted in with amature psychology, and standard observational fare, that anyone that has lived on this earth and experienced life long enough could post. Does driving a great car make you feel good? Sure. Could feeling good change your behavior and how you interact with the world around you on a temporary basis? Sure. That doesn't mean that the basic personality traits of a person changes. Anyone that can put two coherent thoughts together, knows that REAL positive changes, real positivity, would come from the hard work and effort one puts in to be able to drive what they like, and the confidence that comes from said work and effort/achievment. And THAT is where any real, lasting and positive elemental personal changes would come from.

Look, I get it. You want to have all the answers, and best observations. But nothing you've posted is all that interesting or worthy of considered debate. You are discussing a different topic than I, but can't stand that, because it doesn't support your need to be correct all the time.

Now, if you have more to say, PM me. This is exhausting, and we've de-railed this thread enough. If you want to continue debating this topic, start your own damned thread.

ETA: Everything you touched on; the perceptions of other people, changing behavioral interatcions based on perceptions, feeling positive about one's sense of self-efficacy based on what you drive.....it's all counter and supporting to my point that such considerations are shallow and meaningless.

The fact that you, of all people, brought those considerations to the fore-front, beat that drum so hard just to be right, simply serves to re-enforce my perceptions of people that care about such meaningless, trival concerns.

"Oooh, look at my car, I'm so cool!!"

DanaT
05-01-2013, 12:55
My contention was that driving a specific vehicle (for a true driving enthusiast) is about the pleasure one derives from the driving experience, NOT what other people think about what they drive.

One could argue that a real car guy would rather drive a slow car fast than a fast car slow...

And then going back to what kind of car...

Fast cars go down the straight aways fast...Fast drivers go around the corners fast....

Or some drivers look at a road race course as a series of dragstrips connected by corners...other view a bunch of corners connected by dragstrips...

M&P15T
05-01-2013, 13:31
One could argue that a real car guy would rather drive a slow car fast than a fast car slow...

And then going back to what kind of car...

Fast cars go down the straight aways fast...Fast drivers go around the corners fast....

Or some drivers look at a road race course as a series of dragstrips connected by corners...other view a bunch of corners connected by dragstrips...

Yep.

It's all different ways of enjoying the driving experience.

I myself am thinking my next car will be much lighter, less powerful, and cheaper. Something like a BRZ/S2000, but I'm leaning heavily towards a Miata.....something about a convertable is just calling me.

M&P15T
05-01-2013, 13:37
Seriously....the open topped true sports car (light) sounds like something the OP should at least test drive. One doesn't need big power to enjoy the driving experience.

A used S2000, Miata, whatever.....at least get a test drive. Maybe a C6 vert?

DanaT
05-01-2013, 13:39
I would like a 911 turbo or a 911Gt3.

One is more raw and one will make up for a lot of driver error with power, AWD and well sorted stability control.

But then, for just a toy, its a lot of money to waste when for excitement a much cheaper ride can be had.

And a Jeep...

DanaT
05-01-2013, 13:41
A used S2000, Miata, whatever.....at least get a test drive. Maybe a C6 vert?

Dont forget a Boxster S.

It one of those cars, if you drive one, that makes you better. The bad thing is the chassis is so good, they feel really slow. They could use twice the power.

M&P15T
05-01-2013, 14:00
Dont forget a Boxster S.

It one of those cars, if you drive one, that makes you better. The bad thing is the chassis is so good, they feel really slow. They could use twice the power.

Dude....

Recent (semi) episode of the BBC's car show where they buy classic used vehicles, refurbish, and re-sell, they just did a Boxster S.

Nice car, but you gotta know how to work on a Porsche.

DanaT
05-01-2013, 14:02
Dude....

Recent (semi) episode of the BBC's car show where they buy classic used vehicles, refurbish, and re-sell, they just did a Boxster S.

Nice car, but you gotta know how to work on a Porsche.

$45k you can buy a CPO car...

But what is different about turning a wrench on them and other cars?

M&P15T
05-01-2013, 14:12
$45k you can buy a CPO car...

But what is different about turning a wrench on them and other cars?

I can't remember the specifics, but they had a tranny issue, and they had to drop the entire drive-train to effect a repair, and the trans needed to be replaced.

The cost of a new tranny was around 5K, but they found a specialist that re-built Boxster trannys...

Wait....now that I think about it...they were re-building a an old 911. Still, same concerns.

Plus, I'm thinking of an older, cheaper car, not blowing the OP's budget on the initial purchase. That way (if the car is solid) he'd have a few bucks for stuff like tires, brakes, intake, exhaust, etc...

Screw it....I just enjoy fixing up cars....:rofl::rofl:

Rabbi
05-01-2013, 14:16
***SIGH***

The contention that I was discussing with another poster (before you jumped in, changing the subject to suit your view point) is that a car does not elementally change or define a person. This had NOTHING to do with how other people view a person based on what they drive. Your (unwanted) observations are precisely and specifically opposite to what I was opining on.

My contention was that driving a specific vehicle (for a true driving enthusiast) is about the pleasure one derives from the driving experience, NOT what other people think about what they drive.

Certainly, many people ARE more concerned with what/how other people view their vehicles. I find this shallow and stupid, but that's just my none-too-humble opinion.

Then you busted in with amature psychology, and standard observational fare, that anyone that has lived on this earth and experienced life long enough could post. Does driving a great car make you feel good? Sure. Could feeling good change your behavior and how you interact with the world around you on a temporary basis? Sure. That doesn't mean that the basic personality traits of a person changes. Anyone that can put two coherent thoughts together, knows that REAL positive changes, real positivity, would come from the hard work and effort one puts in to be able to drive what they like, and the confidence that comes from said work and effort/achievment. And THAT is where any real, lasting and positive elemental personal changes would come from.

Look, I get it. You want to have all the answers, and best observations. But nothing you've posted is all that interesting or worthy of considered debate. You are discussing a different topic than I, but can't stand that, because it doesn't support your need to be correct all the time.

Now, if you have more to say, PM me. This is exhausting, and we've de-railed this thread enough. If you want to continue debating this topic, start your own damned thread.

ETA: Everything you touched on; the perceptions of other people, changing behavioral interatcions based on perceptions, feeling positive about one's sense of self-efficacy based on what you drive.....it's all counter and supporting to my point that such considerations are shallow and meaningless.

The fact that you, of all people, brought those considerations to the fore-front, beat that drum so hard just to be right, simply serves to re-enforce my perceptions of people that care about such meaningless, trival concerns.

"Oooh, look at my car, I'm so cool!!"

So your entire point is:

"I, M&P15T will be the sole judge of what kind of person a person is based on how I feel about what motivates them to drive a car....and I dont like Rabbi"

Got it.

Baba Louie
05-01-2013, 14:25
55 Chevy Bel Air (Convertible? maybe?)

or

51/52 MGTD

Both can be found in that price range, both are superb for what they are, head turners and fun little weekend drivers, easy to work on as well (the Brit will have the usual issues mind you). You can muscle up the 55 if you want or feel the need for speed. You get to look up at the bottom of semi trailers passing you when driving the MG

M&P15T
05-01-2013, 14:29
So your entire point is:

"I, M&P15T will be the sole judge of what kind of person a person is, based on how I feel about what motivates them to drive a car....and I dont like Rabbi"

Got it.

Actually, my original point was that a person that truly enjoys the driving experience, who drives for the visceral pleasure of man & machine melding......doesn't give a rat's ass about what anyone cares about them and their car.....doesn't care about others that are judgmental....wouldn't care what I or anyone else thinks.....

That's an observation about a certain type of person, acknowledging their existance, not judging them.

Anywho...gotta roll. Me and my 5.0 have tarmac to molest.

Good God, but I LOVE that motor......and the suspension.....and the brakes.....and the interior.....and the sound system....and the 3.73 gears...and the adjustable steering.....and those 10K gumball tires......

Rabbi
05-01-2013, 14:43
Actually, my original point was that a person that truly enjoys the driving experience, who drives for the visceral pleasure of man & machine melding......doesn't give a rat's ass about what anyone cares about them and their car.....doesn't care about others that are judgmental....wouldn't care what I or anyone else thinks.....

That's an observation about a certain type of person, acknowledging their existance, not judging them.

Anywho...gotta roll. Me and my 5.0 have tarmac to molest.

Good God, but I LOVE that motor......and the suspension.....and the brakes.....and the interior.....and the sound system....and the 3.73 gears...and the adjustable steering.....and those 10K gumball tires......

You have been VERY vocal in judging them.

For example.

Certainly, many people ARE more concerned with what/how other people view their vehicles. I find this shallow and stupid, but that's just my none-too-humble opinion.

My entire point was, People act and people react to that, which effects how people behave.

Your points so far have been to claim that only bad people have the kind of car they drive effect their personalities. Only bad people drive cars for reasons other than what I consider the right reasons....and I dont like Rabbi.


Looking at those data points, who do you think is feeling their way through this issue and who do you think is trying to quantify the issue?

We are trying to help the OP. I have not judged anyone. I have pointed out facts so he can consider it, however he feels. You may very well have judged the hell out of him. So, looking at those data points, who is trolling this thread?

JMS
05-01-2013, 15:48
you have been very vocal in judging them.

For example.



My entire point was, people act and people react to that, which effects how people behave.

Your points so far have been to claim that only bad people have the kind of car they drive effect their personalities. Only bad people drive cars for reasons other than what i consider the right reasons....and i dont like rabbi.


Looking at those data points, who do you think is feeling their way through this issue and who do you think is trying to quantify the issue?

We are trying to help the op. I have not judged anyone. I have pointed out facts so he can consider it, however he feels. You may very well have judged the hell out of him. So, looking at those data points, who is trolling this thread?

jesus! Let it go and stop $h!++!ng on every thread with your holier than thou attitude. We all know you must get the last word. You are incapable of not responding. Let's see how much self control you have to not respond to this.

JMS
05-01-2013, 15:49
Actually, my original point was that a person that truly enjoys the driving experience, who drives for the visceral pleasure of man & machine melding......doesn't give a rat's ass about what anyone cares about them and their car.....doesn't care about others that are judgmental....wouldn't care what I or anyone else thinks.....

That's an observation about a certain type of person, acknowledging their existance, not judging them.

Anywho...gotta roll. Me and my 5.0 have tarmac to molest.

Good God, but I LOVE that motor......and the suspension.....and the brakes.....and the interior.....and the sound system....and the 3.73 gears...and the adjustable steering.....and those 10K gumball tires......

PLEASE LET HIM HAVE THE LAST WORD OR THIS THREAD WILL NEVER END :faint:

A THREAD ABOUT CARS BECOMES AN ALL ABOUT RABBI AND HIS .02 CENTS THREAD.....YET AGAIN....

WAITING FOR HIS MANDATORY RESPONSE IE MUST GET THE FINAL WORD RESPONSE....3....2....1....

Rabbi
05-01-2013, 15:54
jesus! Let it go and stop $h!++!ng on every thread with your holier than thou attitude. We all know you must get the last word. You are incapable of not responding. Let's see how much self control you have to not respond to this.

You are also taking a swipe at me, and nothing I have said.

Why do you feel the need to show up to thread and point out what you dont like about me? You have done it before. There are a number of things we can call that and none of them are very good...chief among them are the exact things you are accusing me of.

JMS
05-01-2013, 15:56
You are also taking a swipe at me, and nothing I have said.

Why do you feel the need to show up to thread and point out what you dont like about me? You have done it before. There are a number of things we can call that and none of them are very good...chief among them are the exact things you are accusing me of.

:rofl:Of course a response, completely incapable of not getting the final word...I'm participating in this thread about cars, not about you, yet you always manage to make it about you. You're so predictable.

Rabbi
05-01-2013, 15:57
:rofl:Of course a response, completely incapable of not getting the final word...I'm participating in this thread about cars, not about you, yet you always manage to make it about you. You're so predictable.

You made it about me.

If you wanted to make it about the thread, you would have talked about the content of my posts, not how you feel about me.

wrczx3
05-01-2013, 18:03
jesus! Let it go and stop $h!++!ng on every thread with your holier than thou attitude. We all know you must get the last word. You are incapable of not responding. Let's see how much self control you have to not respond to this.

I was thinking the same thing. The guy is a friggen know it all.

BOOSTED12A
05-01-2013, 18:39
for 20K you could have a company in oregon(R sport international) rebuild and old early 80s Volvo with about 400hp and suspension and brakes to match. would be a sleeper but would set you apart since you would be still driving a "classic" Volvo.
this car below is for sale for 15K but is more of a race car, not much on the interior

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y300/Volvokiller/DriftCar/P1020830.jpg

method
05-01-2013, 19:26
for 20K you could have a company in oregon(R sport international) rebuild and old early 80s Volvo with about 400hp and suspension and brakes to match. would be a sleeper but would set you apart since you would be still driving a "classic" Volvo.
this car below is for sale for 15K but is more of a race car, not much on the interior

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y300/Volvokiller/DriftCar/P1020830.jpg

I like the stance on that car. Always had a thing for Volvos. My dad had a '73 1800ES I got to drive a few times as a teen. One of those with manual and a real engine would be killer. Or a 780 with a manual and a real engine.

lkplank
05-01-2013, 20:31
In 1969 my wife and I bought our first new car an Dodge Charger in B5 blue with a white vinal top with a 383ci with 330 hp and 4 speed. Loved that car and sold it in 1985. Later wished I had kept it.

In 2009 we ordered a Dodge Challenger Classic in B5 blue with a 5.7 hemi, 375 hp and 6 speed. It is one of 254 made. The day we picked it up from the dealer my wife drove it and on request from the sales manager she broke it loose when she took off. To me the new Challenger is a true 'classic'. I plan to keep it until I am on the brown side of the grass.

gjk5
05-01-2013, 20:55
for 20K you could have a company in oregon(R sport international) rebuild and old early 80s Volvo with about 400hp and suspension and brakes to match. would be a sleeper but would set you apart since you would be still driving a "classic" Volvo.
this car below is for sale for 15K but is more of a race car, not much on the interior

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y300/Volvokiller/DriftCar/P1020830.jpg

:rofl::rofl:

just when you think some normalcy may be creeping into GNG, someone suggests a "muscle Volvo".

Bill Powell
05-01-2013, 20:57
We used to put Chevy V-8 engines in 544 Volvos. We did a couple of 1800's and one 1800ES. They're a hoot.

Guys, if Rabbi is a know-it-all prove him wrong. I'm the only one that ever stumped him on a car quiz. It was a real obscure bit of trivia. I know more about old cars than most people and he impresses me.

I don't know why I'm trying to defend him. He doesn't need it. All I want is world peace.

Rabbi
05-01-2013, 21:02
:rofl:

just when you think some normalcy may be creeping into GNG, someone suggests a "muscle Volvo".

Whatever it is, someone, somewhere has probably done it. I for one thank them.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-LLNgHw0uuuQ/TqV9LwpwOSI/AAAAAAAAC3A/Bi64-KakBio/s1600/RR%2540Santa+Pod.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3132/2867886079_c33926d96f.jpg

http://www.forum-auto.com/uploads/200501/spoon56_1106675246_crx_big_block.jpg

http://images.hemmings.com/wp-content/uploads//2013/04/liftedCorvette_2000.jpg

http://onscreencars.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/TheHomer.jpg

BOOSTED12A
05-01-2013, 21:02
:rofl::rofl:

just when you think some normalcy may be creeping into GNG, someone suggests a "muscle Volvo".
it will out corner(sans lotus) and out run anythgin that has been sugested so far. just sayin.
heres another one for ya, the guy built it for about 35K

Full Length Volvette Intoduction from The Anti Team - YouTube

Rabbi
05-01-2013, 21:08
All I want is world peace.

All I want is a 1936 Auburn boattail speedster.

BOOSTED12A
05-01-2013, 21:12
I like the stance on that car. Always had a thing for Volvos. My dad had a '73 1800ES I got to drive a few times as a teen. One of those with manual and a real engine would be killer. Or a 780 with a manual and a real engine.


for anyone interested, this is a 780

http://www.77volvo.ru/images/volvo/volvo-780.jpg

you say"with a real engine" those old volvo turbo 4 bangers can make plenty of power

gjk5
05-01-2013, 21:13
Whatever it is, someone, somewhere has probably done it. I for one thank them.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-LLNgHw0uuuQ/TqV9LwpwOSI/AAAAAAAAC3A/Bi64-KakBio/s1600/RR%2540Santa+Pod.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3132/2867886079_c33926d96f.jpg

http://www.forum-auto.com/uploads/200501/spoon56_1106675246_crx_big_block.jpg

http://images.hemmings.com/wp-content/uploads//2013/04/liftedCorvette_2000.jpg

http://onscreencars.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/TheHomer.jpg

it will out corner(sans lotus) and out run anythgin that has been sugested so far. just sayin.
heres another one for ya, the guy built it for about 35K

Full Length Volvette Intoduction from The Anti Team - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GFrPjMVhP04&list=UU3RnKHlZ2S0qouIZWn9bGcA&index=5)

You both mistake my chuckle for dismissal. Not saying it won't do everything you claim and not saying it is not an admirable endeavor.

Just saying a "hot rod Volvo" is far from normal.

Bill Powell
05-01-2013, 21:16
You can build a far better boat tail than the original, for a fraction of the cost, with an all alloy or steel body. A Jag
v12 engine, makes my mouth water.

Rabbi
05-01-2013, 21:18
You can build a far better boat tail than the original, for a fraction of the cost, with an all alloy or steel body. A Jag
v12 engine, makes my mouth water.

Yep. It will happen. Oh yes!

GVFlyer
05-01-2013, 21:21
I was thinking the same thing. The guy is a friggen know it all.

Regardless of your observation, Rabbi does know a lot. I consider him to be a resource on this board - normally as a calm voice of reason, sometimes by offering historical perspective or other arcane information, and sometimes by offering me a new perspective on an issue that I thought I had thought through.

GVFlyer
05-01-2013, 21:58
for anyone interested, this is a 780

http://www.77volvo.ru/images/volvo/volvo-780.jpg

you say"with a real engine" those old volvo turbo 4 bangers can make plenty of power

I guess the Volvo 2.3 liter Turbo I4's 188 PS is mammoth when compared to...say a Trabant's rockin' 26 HP 600 cc motor.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-vNxO-c_Zzzo/UKcIU9FmvoI/AAAAAAAALVQ/UP8AdoYHUSo/s1600/driving_veb_sachsenring_trabant_601_005.jpg

(There had to be something redeeeming about my post)

Taphius
05-01-2013, 23:27
I can't remember the specifics, but they had a tranny issue, and they had to drop the entire drive-train to effect a repair, and the trans needed to be replaced.

The cost of a new tranny was around 5K, but they found a specialist that re-built Boxster trannys...

Wait....now that I think about it...they were re-building a an old 911. Still, same concerns.

Plus, I'm thinking of an older, cheaper car, not blowing the OP's budget on the initial purchase. That way (if the car is solid) he'd have a few bucks for stuff like tires, brakes, intake, exhaust, etc...

Screw it....I just enjoy fixing up cars....:rofl::rofl:

Dropping an engine is not that hard, we almost always dropped the motor/tranny/subframe as one unti to do motor replacements on bmw's (750's were kind of a *****, but just cause of how large it was...). Dropped the subframe on mini's to replace transmissions as well. When I was stationed in Ohio me and a coworker replaced a Passat motor doing the same in his garage(Bought one with a blown motor for cheap).

A Porsche wouldn't be much different, easy peasy.

DanaT
05-01-2013, 23:32
Well...has the OP considered a trabant? I suspect a different engine must fit in there. And they have the most reliable fuel gauge ever fitted to an automobile.


Posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire (http://www.outdoorhub.com/mobile/)

*ASH*
05-01-2013, 23:48
PLEASE LET HIM HAVE THE LAST WORD OR THIS THREAD WILL NEVER END :faint:

A THREAD ABOUT CARS BECOMES AN ALL ABOUT RABBI AND HIS .02 CENTS THREAD.....YET AGAIN....

WAITING FOR HIS MANDATORY RESPONSE IE MUST GET THE FINAL WORD RESPONSE....3....2....1....

:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

im dying here . to funny lol but true lol

any car thread that pops up he is god in it . post another car thread there is no way he would not post in it . id take bets lol

NorthCarolinaLiberty
05-02-2013, 15:38
The difference between a knowledgeable person and a know-it-all is that the know-it-all takes liberties with what they don't know. This person's opinion is presented as fact itself. The opinion might even be based on fact, but that approximation become exact. It's akin to the doctor's opinion based on the MRI versus the MRI itself. This is pointed out to those people when it happens, but those people just leave the thread.

Ever notice a know-it-all who seldom or never supports his opinion with evidence? His belief is his own authority and knowledge is so strong that he never feels the need to back it up. The person might even have some useful knowledge once in a while, but you might have to dismiss anything said because there's no distinction between fact and opinion.

DanaT
05-02-2013, 16:20
So I must have missed something.

What was rabbi's recommendation?

Mine is still the 993 because of appreciation they have seen lately, the 911 experience, low production volume, etc. they are a car that can be driven but will hold their value and most likely appreciate.


Posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire (http://www.outdoorhub.com/mobile/)

I'M Glockamolie
05-02-2013, 16:56
Whatever it is, someone, somewhere has probably done it. I for one thank them.


I think there are more old Jaguars with Chevrolet engines than old Jaguars with Jaguar engines. This is my LT1-powered XJ6, before LSx engines were swapable by the average guy. Seriously budget (like $8k all in). Note the Home Depot sewer-pipe intake.

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y211/bsparks7/Jaguar/JagNewWheels001.jpg

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y211/bsparks7/Jaguar/JagNewWheels004.jpg

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y211/bsparks7/Jaguar/JagLT1012.jpg

Rabbi
05-02-2013, 17:13
The difference between a knowledgeable person and a know-it-all is that the know-it-all takes liberties with what they don't know. This person's opinion is presented as fact itself. The opinion might even be based on fact, but that approximation become exact. It's akin to the doctor's opinion based on the MRI versus the MRI itself. This is pointed out to those people when it happens, but those people just leave the thread.

Ever notice a know-it-all who seldom or never supports his opinion with evidence? His belief is his own authority and knowledge is so strong that he never feels the need to back it up. The person might even have some useful knowledge once in a while, but you might have to dismiss anything said because there's no distinction between fact and opinion.

I revel in the fact that the same handful of people who show up time and time again to take a swipe at me are conspiracy theory types. You guys follow me around to express how you feel about me. I think yall have a party line. Yall tend to show up in groups.

It is an amazing hallmark that I am on the right track.

Rabbi
05-02-2013, 17:14
I think there are more old Jaguars with Chevrolet engines than old Jaguars with Jaguar engines. This is my LT1-powered XJ6, before LSx engines were swapable by the average guy. Seriously budget (like $8k all in). Note the Home Depot sewer-pipe intake.

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y211/bsparks7/Jaguar/JagNewWheels001.jpg

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y211/bsparks7/Jaguar/JagNewWheels004.jpg

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y211/bsparks7/Jaguar/JagLT1012.jpg

Yeah, that is about all you can do with cats from that era and price range. Drop in a SBC.

Green70
05-02-2013, 17:50
I revel in the fact that the same handful of people who show up time and time again to take a swipe at me are conspiracy theory types. You guys follow me around to express how you feel about me. I think yall have a party line. Yall tend to show up in groups.

It is an amazing hallmark that I am on the right track.

The irony is thick...

JMS
05-02-2013, 18:03
Must have the last word......

jbotstein1
05-02-2013, 18:07
Must have the last word......

Pot, meet kettle...

GVFlyer
05-02-2013, 18:18
Pot, meet kettle...

<Smile>

WEATHERBY460
05-02-2013, 18:25
I am pretty sure I will buy either e 911 (or similiar), a Corvette Grand Sport, or a Gt500.

The 911 wins for performance and appreciation value.

Corvette wins for looks and affordability.

Gt500 wins for performance and a 4 seater.

I am by no means rich, but have worked hard and saved for a car like this. I can't just waste my money, so thats why I want to make a correct choice.

Rabbi
05-02-2013, 18:32
I am pretty sure I will buy either e 911 (or similiar), a Corvette Grand Sport, or a Gt500.

The 911 wins for performance and appreciation value.

Corvette wins for looks and affordability.

Gt500 wins for performance and a 4 seater.

I am by no means rich, but have worked hard and saved for a car like this. I can't just waste my money, so thats why I want to make a correct choice.

I dont mean to upset anyone, but I would never pickt he mustang. In a few years it will just be 'a mustang"

The 911 will age the best. The Corvette will start to look dated faster.

I think I would still pick the vette if those were my three choices.

Green70
05-02-2013, 18:48
Must have the last word......

http://www.mememaker.net/static/images/memes/1770811.jpg

*ASH*
05-02-2013, 18:54
The irony is thick...

the irony is very very very thick ,

Green70
05-02-2013, 18:54
I dont mean to upset anyone, but I would never pickt he mustang. In a few years it will just be 'a mustang"

The 911 will age the best. The Corvette will start to look dated faster.

I think I would still pick the vette if those were my three choices.

I respectfully disagree. M&P's GT will be "just a Mustang" no matter how much he enjoys driving it.

The Shelby GT500 will always be a timeless beast that will appreciate over time...

http://www.allfordmustangs.com/forums/attachments/2011-mustang-talk/126277d1301765134-2012-mustang-gt-steering-feel-img_0017.jpg

vs.

http://cache.gawker.com/assets/images/jalopnik/2009/11/gt500-2010-01_01.jpg

Green70
05-02-2013, 18:58
The Corvette will start to look dated faster.



Especially when the next gen is so much more radical looking...

http://rack.3.mshcdn.com/media/ZgkyMDEzLzAxLzE5LzJiL0NvcnZldHRlU3RpLmUzODdmLmpwZwpwCXRodW1iCTk1MHg1MzQjCmUJanBn/08e69d93/d75/Corvette-Stingray-Cover-shot.jpg

WEATHERBY460
05-02-2013, 19:56
the new vett is dang nice

Rabbi
05-02-2013, 19:58
I respectfully disagree. M&P's GT will be "just a Mustang" no matter how much he enjoys driving it.

The Shelby GT500 will always be a timeless beast that will appreciate over time...

http://www.allfordmustangs.com/forums/attachments/2011-mustang-talk/126277d1301765134-2012-mustang-gt-steering-feel-img_0017.jpg

vs.

http://cache.gawker.com/assets/images/jalopnik/2009/11/gt500-2010-01_01.jpg

Modern Mustangs, be the Cobra, Saleen, whatever...just end up being "used mustang" after a number of years. I feel as though the GT500 will probably trend that way.

I like it (I think the last two generation retro Mustangs are solid home runs) but I dont trust the market at all.

void *
05-02-2013, 20:12
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-vNxO-c_Zzzo/UKcIU9FmvoI/AAAAAAAALVQ/UP8AdoYHUSo/s1600/driving_veb_sachsenring_trabant_601_005.jpg


The car in that pic made me think of a '69 Toyota Corona I used to sometimes drive ... basically, because that Corona was roughly the same color as the car in the pic, and kinda-sorta-but-not-at-all-really the same shape.

I know jack about collector cars. I know jack about sports cars. I can tell you, though, that if you ever happen to be in the middle-of-nowhere desert on a dirt road in a '69 Toyota Corona ... sliding full-blown sideways (kind of like a skateboarder would power slide to slow down when bombing a hill) down a dirt road is pretty damn easy and fun in a tiny little car like that :supergrin: (that trabant looks bigger - I could swear that corona was shorter than I was tall ;) )

moeman
05-02-2013, 20:24
Modern Mustangs, be the Cobra, Saleen, whatever...just end up being "used mustang" after a number of years. I feel as though the GT500 will probably trend that way.

I like it (I think the last two generation retro Mustangs are solid home runs) but I dont trust the market at all.

Are you calling out Mustangs?! And into Vettes?! Wow... While a Vette may have metrics that exceed the Mustang in any certain era it's crappy seats and plastic interior are no better.

While I don't own either (and have owned some cool cars) I'd take a Mustang convertible over a Vette. I've driven Vettes many times and they are are dialed in to hammer over bumps (on the upper end models) and sound like a drum over grooved freeway.

I think a Vette is a great car on paper and a crappy car to own. I'd take a Cadillac CTS-V with a Vette motor over a Vette any day.

While Mustangs are low brow in interior etc... They sit better for me (6', 200#) and don't make pretentions of being "world class".

YMMV...

DanaT
05-02-2013, 20:27
Are you calling out Mustangs?! And into Vettes?! Wow... While a Vette may have metrics that exceed the Mustang in any certain era it's crappy seats and plastic interior are no better.

While I don't own either (and have owned some cool cars) I'd take a Mustang convertible over a Vette. I've driven Vettes many times and they are are dialed in to hammer over bumps (on the upper end models) and sound like a drum over grooved freeway.

I think a Vette is a great car on paper and a crappy car to own. I'd take a Cadillac CTS-V with a Vette motor over a Vette any day.

While Mustangs are low brow in interior etc... They sit better for me (6', 200#) and don't make pretentions of being "world class".

YMMV...

Uh oh. Now you done did it.

JMS
05-02-2013, 20:35
Especially when the next gen is so much more radical looking...

http://rack.3.mshcdn.com/media/ZgkyMDEzLzAxLzE5LzJiL0NvcnZldHRlU3RpLmUzODdmLmpwZwpwCXRodW1iCTk1MHg1MzQjCmUJanBn/08e69d93/d75/Corvette-Stingray-Cover-shot.jpg

Radical is not the first word I'd choose to describe the new Corvette :ack:

I find that the cars that age well are more organic look/curvy rather than angular. For example a Lamborghini Countach looks dated, while the Miura still is a classic design. Same with some of the older Ferrari's vs. the Testarossa and a lot of the other stuff they are coming out with now. I'd take a Diablo over any modern Lambo for looks alone (except the Reventon).

427
05-02-2013, 20:38
For the price of a new Vette, I'll take any midyear over a new one.

Rabbi
05-02-2013, 20:43
Are you calling out Mustangs?! And into Vettes?! Wow... While a Vette may have metrics that exceed the Mustang in any certain era it's crappy seats and plastic interior are no better.

While I don't own either (and have owned some cool cars) I'd take a Mustang convertible over a Vette. I've driven Vettes many times and they are are dialed in to hammer over bumps (on the upper end models) and sound like a drum over grooved freeway.

I think a Vette is a great car on paper and a crappy car to own. I'd take a Cadillac CTS-V with a Vette motor over a Vette any day.

While Mustangs are low brow in interior etc... They sit better for me (6', 200#) and don't make pretentions of being "world class".

YMMV...

No matter how cool a new(er) Mustang is....it is still a Mustang. You pull up to the stop light and there will be 8 of them there. That is for SURE one place it has the vette beat.

While upsetting, it seems like people who buy the high end Mustangs do so only to be king of the Mustang world. (which I get)...because that is all that kind of Royalty is good foor. It doesnt carry much weight beyond that. A Mustang is an entry level performance car (and a damned good one at that). It cant overcome that truth.

Again, stone cold home run and a wicked value...just not what I would pick out of the exact three choices I was respondiing too (911, Vette, GT500) I still say, given those three exact choices, I would pick the Vette. That doesnt make it the right choice, just my choice.

Rabbi
05-02-2013, 20:49
Radical is not the first word I'd choose to describe the new Corvette :ack:

I find that the cars that age well are more organic look/curvy rather than angular. For example a Lamborghini Countach looks dated, while the Miura still is a classic design. Same with some of the older Ferrari's vs. the Testarossa and a lot of the other stuff they are coming out with now. I'd take a Diablo over any modern Lambo for looks alone (except the Reventon).

I cant argue your opinion and in some ways I agree but there are some angular cars that are very classic. A number of Rolls Royces come to mind.


http://www.remarkablecars.com/main/rolls-royce/vintage-rolls-royce.jpg

JMS
05-02-2013, 20:55
I know which one I'd rather have. While R&R have a presence, I can't recall any that stylistically are memorable.
http://www.remarkablecars.com/main/rolls-royce/vintage-rolls-royce.jpg
http://archdezart.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/Bugatti-Type-57S-Atlantic-1-785x535.jpg

Green70
05-02-2013, 20:59
I cant argue your opinion and in some ways I agree but there are some angular cars that are very classic. A number of Rolls Royces come to mind.



And there are a number of organic/curvy cars that did not age well...

http://ftpmirror.your.org/pub/wikimedia/images/wikipedia/commons/8/86/'96-'97_Taurus_Wagon.jpg

DanaT
05-02-2013, 21:04
And there are a number of organic/curvy cars that did not age well...

http://ftpmirror.your.org/pub/wikimedia/images/wikipedia/commons/8/86/'96-'97_Taurus_Wagon.jpg

I suspect someone in GT drives one of these....

http://www.ridelust.com/wp-content/uploads/aa_1977_amc_pacer_waynes_world.jpg

But tells people he drives one of these:

http://lepotta.com/images/2013/03/Ferrari-599-GTB_Fiorano_manu-wallpaper.jpg

DanaT
05-02-2013, 21:05
I'd take a Diablo over any modern Lambo for looks alone (except the Reventon).

That was (and still is) one awesome looking car. First one I saw in real life was a light purple one. I would even take a light purple one..

Edit

This color:

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-Y0hB2KNapGs/TeQNGxHDkgI/AAAAAAAAAxA/i2fd8kt1pWE/s1600/199x+Lamborghini+Diablo+purple+sv%253DKRM.jpg

JMS
05-02-2013, 21:11
That was (and still is) one awesome looking car. First one I saw in real life was a light purple one. I would even take a light purple one..

Edit

This color:

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-Y0hB2KNapGs/TeQNGxHDkgI/AAAAAAAAAxA/i2fd8kt1pWE/s1600/199x+Lamborghini+Diablo+purple+sv%253DKRM.jpg

I believe the purple ones from the factory were the SE30's and SE30 "Jotas". I don't recall any other model in that color.

What they have been coming out with recently is horrible. The Aventador seems to be angular and organic at the same time and the new limited edition Veneno looks like something a kid would draw. I miss the days of Bertone, Pinianfarina, Gandini, etc :crying:In addition I think they really lost something special when they did away with the gated shifters, they really were a thing of beauty.

BTW I saw this one for sale years ago at Manhattan Motorcars, Diablo VS.
http://www.supercarsmania.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/lamborghini-diablo-Victorias-Secret-1.jpg

GVFlyer
05-02-2013, 21:54
Can't we all just get along? I always liked the Cord and it's a combination of curvy and angular.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-_Gxmv52AbZo/UUZv8fVN11I/AAAAAAAAEfo/NP4uHN4WTiM/s1600/cord-810-westchester-02+gomotors+net.jpg

http://autoworld.files.wordpress.com/2008/06/la-car-concours-1973-cord-821s-img_49.jpg

:cool:

jbotstein1
05-03-2013, 04:21
To me a sports car is lightweight, not overburdened with electronics (DBW, traction control, etc.), and can push your body hard in any direction at any time(with excellent braking, acceleration, and grip). There are many cars that can do the latter, but the lightweight thing is harder to find. Driving a heavy car, like a mustang, just doesnt offer the feel that I desire in a sports car.

As far as being collectable, I think rarity/exclusivity, timeless design(which is very subjective), and driving experience(how you feel while driving) are the 3 most important determining factors.

So, in combining those 2, you can narrow down your list. Any mustang at this point in time will not be collectable. There are simply way too many produced. They are sports cars to some, but to me are straight line dragsters. They don't offer the lightweight or the grip. I'm not a domestic car guy, but I will admit that the new Corvettes have made vast improvements in weight reduction and cornering ability. I would also argue that anyone who complains about the harsh ride in a sports car should not be driving a sports car, and that the new higher end corvettes (ZR1, Z06) don't only make pretentions of being world class, they are world class.

SC Tiger
05-03-2013, 06:45
collector: DeLorean or other odd-ball types. DeLorean was only in production for two years.

real sports car: used Cobra kit car. Should be able to get a nice one for close to $45K. Older corvette, maybe get an anniversary edition for more collector value.

One is'nt a real sports car, the other will never be a collector. The corvette could be collectable if it's all stock. For both in one vehicle I'd agree with an older Porshe or Ferrari in that price range.

A friend of mine has a DeLorean. The engine can be fixed by anyone who can repair a Volvo and most other parts are from different cars (I think the brakes are from Jaguar for instance) but the body is a different story. If you ding or dent it you are in a hurt as there is no way to repair it without removing the entire dent.

One of the front fenders (left I think) is really hard to get as I believe the original die is now in the ocean somewhere (apparently Irish labor strikes get pretty violent). Personally I would replace the bolts mounting it with tamper-proof fasteners.

I would bet someone is making aftermarket ones now though.

And then there is the whole problem with the Flux Capacitor....:tongueout:

OfficerChris
05-03-2013, 06:47
if you ever complain about a harsh ride... take a drive in a real racecar... THAT'S hard.


/posted from my mobile phone probably while sitting on the toilet/

GVFlyer
05-03-2013, 08:16
A friend of mine has a DeLorean. The engine can be fixed by anyone who can repair a Volvo and most other parts are from different cars (I think the brakes are from Jaguar for instance) but the body is a different story. If you ding or dent it you are in a hurt as there is no way to repair it without removing the entire dent.

One of the front fenders (left I think) is really hard to get as I believe the original die is now in the ocean somewhere (apparently Irish labor strikes get pretty violent). Personally I would replace the bolts mounting it with tamper-proof fasteners.

I would bet someone is making aftermarket ones now though.

And then there is the whole problem with the Flux Capacitor....:tongueout:

http://delorean.com/content/db/02047/images/20120926_134559_b4b6f3/550.jpg

You can get your new (old) DeLorean here (http://delorean.com/).

Bill Powell
05-03-2013, 08:18
some rolls royces are more memorable than others.

Bill Powell
05-03-2013, 08:26
a corvette I like

SC Tiger
05-03-2013, 08:39
http://delorean.com/content/db/02047/images/20120926_134559_b4b6f3/550.jpg

You can get your new (old) DeLorean here (http://delorean.com/).

I noticed there is no price and no stock of the LH front fender.

Supposedly there is a company in Texas that can fix Delorean body panels.

The guy basically has a bunch of Pakistani knife makers who hammer out the dents (as I was told).

GVFlyer
05-03-2013, 08:47
I noticed there is no price and no stock of the LH front fender.

Supposedly there is a company in Texas that can fix Delorean body panels.

The guy basically has a bunch of Pakistani knife makers who hammer out the dents (as I was told).

This one has a price ~ $49,500.

http://delorean.com/content/db/06226/images/20111024_143259_5d3b76/550.jpg
http://delorean.com/delorean/6226/

For sh1ts and giggles, I just tried a live chat with their parts department to ask about your fender - there was nobody home.

SC Tiger
05-03-2013, 09:24
This one has a price ~ $49,500.

http://delorean.com/content/db/06226/images/20111024_143259_5d3b76/550.jpg
http://delorean.com/delorean/6226/

For sh1ts and giggles, I just tried a live chat with their parts department to ask about your fender - there was nobody home.

I appreciate that.

My friend has a thing for old European cars. He has an old Mercedes Diesel he drives quite a bit - in fact I think it is (was) his daily driver.

I checked Wikipedia and there is no mention of a violent labor riot at DeLorean so that could have just been a bunch of BS I heard.

I did learn that the last ones to come to the US were sold by the same company that owns Big Lots.

Too bad the body is expensive to maintain because I think you could make something REALLY cool out of it (not saying the DeLorean isn't cool already) with some more horsepower.

M&P15T
05-03-2013, 09:29
While Mustangs are low brow in interior etc... They sit better for me (6', 200#) and don't make pretentions of being "world class".

YMMV...

When was the last time you were in a Mustang? The current cars have vastly improved interiors. Granted, they're not quite BMW levels, but neither is the cost of ownership/maintenance/repairs.

I agree that current Mustangs are not destined to be (in the short-term, like 15-20 years) collector cars. But, with time, all cars become collectable if they're old enough to be rare by the attrition of years, and in good condition.

As far as "World Class", the current Mustang is the performance equivalent of a current M3, so that's a great performance leve to be at, at 2/3rds or less the price.

M&P15T
05-03-2013, 09:35
To me a sports car is lightweight, not overburdened with electronics (DBW, traction control, etc.), and can push your body hard in any direction at any time(with excellent braking, acceleration, and grip). There are many cars that can do the latter, but the lightweight thing is harder to find. Driving a heavy car, like a mustang, just doesnt offer the feel that I desire in a sports car.

They are sports cars to some, but to me are straight line dragsters. They don't offer the lightweight or the grip.

Just to clarify, if you haven't driven a current Brembo PP/Track Pack 5.0 Mustang.

No, they're not going to drive like a Miata, S2000, BRZ, or any sub-3kLB true sports car. But they brake and grip very, very well. Do they feel light? No, as you mentioned, they are a bit heavy at 3600lbs. Still, lighter than a Camaro or M3.

They are immense fun to drive, with 0 under-steer, incredible grip, and face-planting brakes. Plus, ya know, there's that motor.

Collector car? No. Great car to drive? Yes.

Atlas
05-03-2013, 09:38
When the new Mustangs get IRS then I can begin to take them seriously.


A guy I worked with three years ago has a Diablo.
In great condition, black on black.
Damn thing will blow your mind when he opens it up..


He's a really smart guy, a software engineer, but not a motorhead.
And, he doesn't understand automotive electrical systems.
He lives in a small town in central Virginia, and the nearest service facility capable of doing any service to a Diablo is 2 hours distant.

The car began to have fuel management/ignition problems soon after he purchased it.
Good thing he makes good money and is single with no dependents..


.

M&P15T
05-03-2013, 09:47
When the new Mustangs get IRS then I can begin to take them seriously.

It's coming. Next spring, the new Mustang will have IRS.

I hope it loses 500Lbs too.

SC Tiger
05-03-2013, 09:50
It's coming. Next spring, the new Mustang will have IRS.

I hope it loses 500Lbs too.

Didn't the Cobra have that back in the late '90s? Why was it not carried over?

That is one thing Chevrolet got right on the new Camaro.

M&P15T
05-03-2013, 09:55
Didn't the Cobra have that back in the late '90s? Why was it not carried over?

That is one thing Chevrolet got right on the new Camaro.

Dunno about the 90s IRS. But cost is one reason they're still with a live axel, plus the after-market that exists for the current live axel rear ends.

Buddy has a Camaro, and while it is gorgeous and fast, sitting in it is like sitting in a bunker. I have never seen such poor outward visibility.

moeman
05-03-2013, 09:58
When was the last time you were in a Mustang? The current cars have vastly improved interiors. Granted, they're not quite BMW levels, but neither is the cost of ownership/maintenance/repairs.

I agree that current Mustangs are not destined to be (in the short-term, like 15-20 years) collector cars. But, with time, all cars become collectable if they're old enough to be rare by the attrition of years, and in good condition.

As far as "World Class", the current Mustang is the performance equivalent of a current M3, so that's a great performance leve to be at, at 2/3rds or less the price.

Last Mustang I drove was the current model last week... Convertible. I rent them frequently. Yes, lots better but way behind many cars. Other Ford products such as the top model Fushion hybrid I recently rented have very nice interiors.

Their fixed rear axle is well designed and I've seem tests to validate their track ability.

Green70
05-03-2013, 09:58
When the new Mustangs get IRS then I can begin to take them seriously.




That is a completely ignorant statement...

So, I take it you take a Honda Ridgeline seriously because it has IRS?:rofl:

The current generation of Mustangs are quite capable of meeting and beating the performance levels of the vaulted BMW M3.

Your statement is on par with saying you'll start taking 1911s seriously when they have a polymer frame...:upeyes:

SC Tiger
05-03-2013, 09:58
Dunno about the 90s IRS. But cost is one reason they're still with a live axel, plus the after-market that exists for the current live axel rear ends.

Buddy has a Camaro, and while it is gorgeous and fast, sitting in it is like sitting in a bunker. I have never seen such poor outward visibility.

I kind of wondered about the small windows on the Camaro.

Leave it to Chevrolet to take something with that much potential and #### it up.

SC Tiger
05-03-2013, 09:59
That is a completely ignorant statement...

So, I take it you take a Honda Ridgeline seriously because it has IRS?:rofl:

The current generation of Mustangs are quite capable of meeting and beating the performance levels of the vaulted BMW M3.

Your statement is on par with saying you'll start taking 1911s seriously when they have a polymer frame...:upeyes:

Straight line or on a road course (where the M3 is know for being fantastic)?

M&P15T
05-03-2013, 10:03
Straight line or on a road course (where the M3 is know for being fantastic)?

Road course.

The Brembo PP/Track Pack cars are great handling and braking cars.

Most people still have the impression that Mustangs don't handle or brake, but that's simply not true.

Atlas
05-03-2013, 10:07
That is a completely ignorant statement...
..

Your opinion.
I wrote that I can then take it seriously.
I was expressing what I value in a performance car.
What I value.... is that OK with you?

Your attitude is unnecessarily belligerent.
If you are satisfied with an ancient suspension design, then enjoy it to the fullest.

.
The current generation of Mustangs are quite capable of meeting and beating the performance levels of the vaulted BMW M3.


Perhaps on a smooth road or track..

In the real world, when you are 98% into that curve at speed and one rear wheel hits a bump, that axle is gonna rock like a rowboat.
That's when cornering and traction suffers.
It's inevitable, inherent in the design... can't be helped.



Ford has done as good a job in tuning the dynamics of a live axle as anyone possibly could.

If a live axle is so good, why would they be going to an IRS for the new models?



And, I believe you meant "vaunted", not "vaulted".
I'm sure it was only a typo and you know the difference, right?


.

Green70
05-03-2013, 10:09
I stumbled across a Car & Driver article about a year ago that pitted a Mustang GT against BMW M3 on the track and it was too close to call a winner.

The wine and cheese auto guys were stunned by the results, as was I...

M&P15T
05-03-2013, 10:12
In the real world, when you are 98% into that curve at speed and one rear wheel hits a bump, that axle is gonna rock like a rowboat.
That's when cornering and traction suffers.
It's inevitable, inherent in the design... can't be helped.

Ford has done as good a job in tuning the dynamics of a live axle as anyone possibly could.

If a live axle is so good, why would they be going to an IRS for the new models?

That's a good question actually.

There are live-axel suspensions mods that can turn them into incredible handling cars. Simple stuff that isn't that expensive. You could buy a 35K 5.0 Brembo car, invest 3K into the suspension and a tune, and destroy an M3 on a road course for half the price.

But IRS also is better for NVH and such.

Bill Powell
05-03-2013, 10:15
The Ferrari 250 GTO, a very successful racing car that handled well, had a suspension virtually identical to the Mustang.

Atlas
05-03-2013, 10:19
And yep, I'm interested in a polymer-framed 1911.
Wilson Combat has had one for about 8 years, and I saw recently that one of the larger firearms makers is producing a plastic 1911 as well.

I've a very nice mil-spec Springfield...
Love it.

If I'm going in harm's way though, my Glock G36 is always my first choice.

.

jbotstein1
05-03-2013, 10:24
Just to clarify, if you haven't driven a current Brembo PP/Track Pack 5.0 Mustang.

No, they're not going to drive like a Miata, S2000, BRZ, or any sub-3kLB true sports car. But they brake and grip very, very well. Do they feel light? No, as you mentioned, they are a bit heavy at 3600lbs. Still, lighter than a Camaro or M3.

They are immense fun to drive, with 0 under-steer, incredible grip, and face-planting brakes. Plus, ya know, there's that motor.

Collector car? No. Great car to drive? Yes.

I don't disagree with anything you've said. I was trying to stick to the OP and offer what I would be using as criteria to judge the type of car he should get. There are many cars that outperform many other cars, but the experience is what I'm after not numbers.

JMS
05-03-2013, 10:27
The Ferrari 250 GTO, a very successful racing car that handled well, had a suspension virtually identical to the Mustang.

Thankfully Ferrari's and most other cars (except the Mustang :tongueout:) have evolved from the early 60's.

300 hp from a V12!

GVFlyer
05-03-2013, 10:41
When was the last time you were in a Mustang? The current cars have vastly improved interiors. Granted, they're not quite BMW levels, but neither is the cost of ownership/maintenance/repairs.

I agree that current Mustangs are not destined to be (in the short-term, like 15-20 years) collector cars. But, with time, all cars become collectable if they're old enough to be rare by the attrition of years, and in good condition.

As far as "World Class", the current Mustang is the performance equivalent of a current M3, so that's a great performance leve to be at, at 2/3rds or less the price.

You can't have driven a BMW M3 and be saying that - so you must be quoting that absurd, agenda-driven Motor Trend article - you know, the one where the BMW was shod with Continental ContiSportContact 3's when every M3 on the planet, mine included, comes with the wider Michelin Pilot Sport 2's.

Quoting from that article, "the BMW is faster because of its superior shock control at high speed, it has very little nose dive, very little brake dive, which gives me more confidence as a driver. It's more refined, a more conservative car than the Mustang is and far better controlled."
If you lived closer I'd let you drive mine to see how it compares with your Mustang. I did drive a friend's Boss 302 before I bought the M3. I found it to be plagued with axle-tramp from its live axle, hard shifting, possessed of a long travel- high effort clutch, prone to nose diving under braking and to be a terminal understeerer. Did I mention the plastic-fantastic interior so devoid of features as to not even have a telescopic steering wheel? I grant that at 2/3rd's the price of the M3, the Mustang is a performance bargain, but once behind the wheel, there is no comparison.

http://i444.photobucket.com/albums/qq166/GVFlyer/xm813/008.jpg

M&P15T
05-03-2013, 10:46
You can't have driven a BMW M3 and be saying that - so you must be quoting that absurd, agenda-driven Motor Trend article - you know, the one where the BMW was shod with Continental ContiSportContact 3's when every M3 on the planet, mine included, comes with the wider Michelin Pilot Sport 2's.

Quoting from that article, "the BMW is faster because of its superior shock control at high speed, it has very little nose dive, very little brake dive, which gives me more confidence as a driver. It's more refined, a more conservative car than the Mustang is and far better controlled."
If you lived closer I'd let you drive mine to see how it compares with your Mustang. I did drive a friend's Boss 302 before I bought the M3. I found it to be plagued with axle-tramp from its live axle, hard shifting, possessed of a long travel- high effort clutch, prone to nose diving under braking and to be a terminal understeerer. Did I mention the plastic-fantastic interior so devoid of features as to not even have a telescopic steering wheel? I grant that at 2/3rd's the price of the M3, the Mustang is a performance bargain, but once behind the wheel, there is no comparison.

http://i444.photobucket.com/albums/qq166/GVFlyer/xm813/008.jpg


Post your window sticker, I'll post mine.

For the 30K difference, I'll take my car every day.....because I'm poor.:rofl::rofl:

Is the M3 a better car? Yes, no doubt about it. They're awesome, beautifully built cars. For the money? Not what I would spend.

I would also question which Mustang you actually drove. BOSS Mustangs do not have the brake dive, etc., that regular Mustangs do. And very little axel tramp, which can be cured very easily and cheaply.

GVFlyer
05-03-2013, 10:53
Post your window sticker, I'll post mine.


Show me a pic of your car instead.


For the 30K difference, I'll take my car every day.

Is the M3 a better car? Yes, no doubt about it. They're awesome, beautifully built cars. For the money? Not a good value, if performance is your thing.

I would also question which Mustang you actually drove. BOSS Mustangs do not have the brake dive, etc., that regular Mustangs do. And very little axel tramp.

You, apparently, haven't driven the car - or at least haven't driven it hard.

M&P15T
05-03-2013, 10:55
You, apparently, haven't driven the car - or at least haven't driven it hard.

Have you driven a 2011-2012 BOSS?

I have not, but I am a member at AFM.com.

None of the BOSS owners have complained about brake dive/axel hop, and they drive them hard.....at tracks.

In fact, they all rave about the suspension, in comparison to non-BOSS Mustangs.

I will add, that most Mustang enthusiast owners are more about looks and 1/4 times, rather than balanced track prowess. I am always miffed when new Mustang owners are more worried about lowering their cars, and different rims, rather than true performance.

With the Brambo PP/Track Pack cars, replacing the factory struts & shocks with up-graded, adjustable units, should eliminate the brake dive. Panhard bars remove the axel hop. So getting a Mustang to handle well is actually quite cheap and easy, if you don't start with a base car.

http://i956.photobucket.com/albums/ae41/pugcra/50_zps00d351f4.jpg

PNine64
05-03-2013, 10:55
I'd love an M3...but I opted for this instead:

233104

Bill Powell
05-03-2013, 11:14
The primary advantage if the IFS is the reduction of unsprung weight. I was only pointing out that a rigid axle can be made to handle, I was not calling it superior.

moeman
05-03-2013, 11:20
And yep, I'm interested in a polymer-framed 1911.
Wilson Combat has had one for about 8 years, and I saw recently that one of the larger firearms makers is producing a plastic 1911 as well.

I've a very nice mil-spec Springfield...
Love it.

If I'm going in harm's way though, my Glock G36 is always my first choice.

.

A polymer 1911 is as authentic as Olive Garden is to Italian food. Yes, that disgusting.

Reds45acp
05-03-2013, 11:39
1) To the OP, if it hasn't been mentioned grab a later model NSX. They are sexy as hell, still. Attention grabbing. Not a DD car but definitely a good car to park in front at valet. Plus good condition used ones are right in your price range.


Didn't the Cobra have that back in the late '90s? Why was it not carried over?

That is one thing Chevrolet got right on the new Camaro.

2) I am amazed to see the Mustang/Camaro/M3 debate going on in a gun forum.

3) To answer the question: In 2003 and 2004 Ford SVT Cobra Mustangs, nick-named "Terminators" had IRS along with a 32v 4.6ZL V8 and a matched Eaton M112 supercharger.

While still the same SN95 chassis as the rest of the Mustang line-up it was much more expensive to produce to make it a standard feature at Ford's desired price point. This thought continued to the S197 chassis in 2005. However the traditional 4-link rear axle with quad shocks (better for drag racing) was dumped in favor of an older three link method utilizing a panhard bar (better for negotiating turns).

The S197 chassis has been evolved continually since 2005. Based on customer feedback and race programs the 2011+ chassis have much improved driving dynamics even with a solid rear axle.

3) This is no different an argument than: 9mm vs .40 S&W vs .45 ACP. Each have pluses and minuses. I've spent enough time on road courses and autocrosses to tell you each one is an amazing vehicle in the right hands.

In mine, I prefer a .45 ACP and my 2014 Mustang GT with a track package. (It's the fourth Mustang I've owned: 1989 GT, 2001 GT, 2005 GT). That doesn't mean that the Guy who prefers the 9mm and an M3 isn't as effective/fast.



Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk 2



Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk 2

FreeAmerican
05-03-2013, 11:41
A polymer 1911 is as authentic as Olive Garden is to Italian food. Yes, that disgusting.

I am going to laughed at but a used Audi TTS or if you can find a rs.

all wheel drive, light fun. Add $600 of software flash and things get even more fun.

The RS is a fun beast 4 second 0-60 360 hp and its just a little different.

with the sharing of technology between the VAG business units (VW Audi Porsche Lambo) they have been producing some nice cars

best part, other than the size, it can easily be a daily driver

M&P15T
05-03-2013, 11:43
I am going to laughed at but a used Audi TTS or if you can find a rs.

all wheel drive, light fun. Add $600 of software flash and things get even more fun.

The RS is a fun beast 4 second 0-60 360 hp and its just a little different.

with the sharing of technology between the VAG business units (VW Audi Porsche Lambo) they have been producing some nice cars

best part, other than the size, it can easily be a daily driver

That's a great suggestion.

M&P15T
05-03-2013, 11:45
............my 2014 Mustang GT with a track package.

Pics or it didn't happen.:rofl::rofl:

Reds45acp
05-03-2013, 12:16
Pics or it didn't happen.

2014 Mustang GT

http://i729.photobucket.com/albums/ww295/Redbeard_FMC/2013-03-31_14-56-16_457_zpsf3a5a9e4.jpg

http://i729.photobucket.com/albums/ww295/Redbeard_FMC/2013-03-31_14-56-56_881_zpsdf67e838.jpg

2005 Mustang GT
http://i729.photobucket.com/albums/ww295/Redbeard_FMC/finale1.jpg

2001 Mustang GT
http://i729.photobucket.com/albums/ww295/Redbeard_FMC/bmclove2.jpg

1989 Mustang GT
http://i729.photobucket.com/albums/ww295/Redbeard_FMC/IMG_20110316_174641.jpg

Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk 2

M&P15T
05-03-2013, 12:20
2014 Mustang GT

http://i729.photobucket.com/albums/ww295/Redbeard_FMC/2013-03-31_14-56-16_457_zpsf3a5a9e4.jpg


Tell me you live near NoVa.

Green70
05-03-2013, 12:23
2014 Mustang GT

http://i729.photobucket.com/albums/ww295/Redbeard_FMC/2013-03-31_14-56-16_457_zpsf3a5a9e4.jpg


I see red stripes in that car's future...:cool:

Reds45acp
05-03-2013, 12:31
Tell me you live near NoVa.

Northern Virginia? No. I'm in Central Texas.





I see red stripes in that car's future...:cool:

Maybe.... :D


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GVFlyer
05-03-2013, 14:54
Have you driven a 2011-2012 BOSS?
I have not, but I am a member at AFM.com.


It appears that I have. I had to wait to get a text back from my buddy. His is a 2012 which he purchased in mid-2011. I really don't have much of a frame of reference, his car and my brother's 500+ RWHP SVT Cobra are the only Mustangs I've driven.

Something that you will probably appreciate is that because my brothers wife is an FBI agent, he has special plates on his outrageous Mustang that offer him a certain level of immunity for his automotive antics.


None of the BOSS owners have complained about brake dive/axel hop, and they drive them hard.....at tracks.

In fact, they all rave about the suspension, in comparison to non-BOSS Mustangs.

I will add, that most Mustang enthusiast owners are more about looks and 1/4 times, rather than balanced track prowess. I am always miffed when new Mustang owners are more worried about lowering their cars, and different rims, rather than true performance.

With the Brambo PP/Track Pack cars, replacing the factory struts & shocks with up-graded, adjustable units, should eliminate the brake dive. Panhard bars remove the axel hop. So getting a Mustang to handle well is actually quite cheap and easy, if you don't start with a base car.

http://i956.photobucket.com/albums/ae41/pugcra/50_zps00d351f4.jpg

Nice looking car.

GVFlyer
05-03-2013, 14:57
2014 Mustang GT

http://i729.photobucket.com/albums/ww295/Redbeard_FMC/2013-03-31_14-56-16_457_zpsf3a5a9e4.jpg


Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk 2

Sharp!

GVFlyer
05-03-2013, 15:01
I'd love an M3...but I opted for this instead:

233104

Nice Targa. I love Porsche's and I drove them the entire time I lived in Germany, but unfortunately, I like cars in warranty and Porsche priced themselves out of my market.

PNine64
05-03-2013, 18:04
Nice Targa. I love Porsche's and I drove them the entire time I lived in Germany, but unfortunately, I like cars in warranty and Porsche priced themselves out of my market.

Thanks...it's one of 77 or so that came into the states in 1993. Definitely a hobby car that gets put up in the winter. I keep the Honda Pilot around for the DD.

Jade Falcon
05-03-2013, 18:18
Don't laugh...

1996 Mitsubishi 3000GT. My father has one he bought brand-new in 1996, and he's kept it garaged ever since. It's only got about 72,000 miles on a rebuilt motor (he had it rebuilt after one of the pistons cracked, and the engine was blue-printed/X-rayed by the company). It's a non-turbo (not the VR-4), with a 3-liter 24V. DOHC V6, pumping out 225 hp to the front-wheels, with a 5-speed manual gear box. It does not have a governor chip, and my father is conviced that he could get it up to 155-160 no problem.

For what this car was, it was enormously ahead of it's time! It had a massive Infinity Sterio-system complete with, no joke, a setup for plugging in an MP3 player, as well as a 6-disk CD changer located just behind the folded-down passenger seats in the hatchback.

It's a 2-door hard-top, with is important, because the next year, 1997, Mitsubishi took away 50 HP from the motor, changed some internal parts in the cabin (vynal to leather, I think), gave it a soft-top, and changed the rear spoiler. It was atrocious, and apparently, the public thought so too, because Mitsubishi ceased production of this model later that year.

My father won't sell it, but I'm convinced he could get $12K minimum if he were to sell it, with possibly $16K to a determined buyer. Not bad, for a car that was origionally $35K+.

911h20
05-03-2013, 18:34
I am ready to buy a sports car. I want this car to be timeless and be proud to drive it for many years. This will be driven very seldom, so I wont be adding many miles on it.

I am having a hard time trying to decide. I was leaning towards a vette, but then considered a Camaro ZL1....I think I might even consider a GT500 (sounds like its a better car then the ZL1) I might just get a Camaro SS...but I also like older stuff also......please give me some ideas...I am open to anything

911 RS america

GVFlyer
05-03-2013, 18:37
Clearly, what OP needs is a 1997 Subaru SVX - the ultimate collector sports coupe.

Note the highly stylistic windows around the windows. Distinctive no?

The car looks like what a Martian would render if given a telephone description of what an Earth car should look like.

http://subarusvx.files.wordpress.com/2012/02/subaru_svx_red_side.jpg

NorthCarolinaLiberty
05-03-2013, 21:18
I revel in the fact that the same handful of people who show up time and time again to take a swipe at me are conspiracy theory types. You guys follow me around to express how you feel about me. I think yall have a party line. Yall tend to show up in groups.

It is an amazing hallmark that I am on the right track.

I guess your amazing hallmark achievement was trolling people in that moon landing conspiracy thread you created.

It sounds like your right track is either playing chess with autistic children, or writing posts as comical as Two Black Belts' GT persona.

GVFlyer
05-04-2013, 08:34
Steering the thread back on track - I think that, for me, the 1997 993 Turbo S is the ultimate collector car.

http://flatsixes.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/03/seinfeld-porsche-993-turbo-s.jpg

I've found one, but as they say in Texas, the owner is "mighty proud of it".

http://sloancars.com/2676/1997-993-turbo-s-silver-boxster-red-leather-13417-miles/

Atlas
05-04-2013, 08:36
Steering the thread back on track - I think that, for me, the 1997 993 Turbo S is the ultimate collector car.

http://flatsixes.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/03/seinfeld-porsche-993-turbo-s.jpg

I've found one, but as they say in Texas, the owner is "mighty proud of it".

http://sloancars.com/2676/1997-993-turbo-s-silver-boxster-red-leather-13417-miles/


Gimmie that in a nice slate gray or black color and it's on!

.264 magnum
05-04-2013, 08:38
Straight line or on a road course (where the M3 is know for being fantastic)?

For the win.

hpracing007
05-04-2013, 08:39
Steering the thread back on track - I think that, for me, the 1997 993 Turbo S is the ultimate collector car.

http://flatsixes.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/03/seinfeld-porsche-993-turbo-s.jpg

I've found one, but as they say in Texas, the owner is "mighty proud of it".

http://sloancars.com/2676/1997-993-turbo-s-silver-boxster-red-leather-13417-miles/

DO WANT, i just know for sure that's out of my price range, for now.

M&P15T
05-04-2013, 08:49
http://i956.photobucket.com/albums/ae41/pugcra/50_zps00d351f4.jpg


http://i729.photobucket.com/albums/ww295/Redbeard_FMC/2013-03-31_14-56-16_457_zpsf3a5a9e4.jpg


You are aware of the stupidly short life span of our tires, right?

07 LMB Z06
05-04-2013, 09:17
Gimmie that in a nice slate gray or black color and it's on!

Ask and you shall receive...
http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg264/crahockey11/05.jpg (http://s250.photobucket.com/user/crahockey11/media/05.jpg.html)

http://www.cars.com/go/search/detail.jsp?tracktype=usedcc&csDlId=&csDgId=&listingId=96292709&listingRecNum=0&criteria=sf1Dir%3DDESC%26mkId%3D20081%26stkTyp%3DU%26mdId%3D20567%26rd%3D100000%26crSrtFlds%3DstkTyp Id-feedSegId-mkId-mdId%26zc%3D60514%26rn%3D0%26PMmt%3D1-1-0%26stkTypId%3D28881%26sf2Dir%3DASC%26sf1Nm%3Dprice%26sf2Nm%3Dmiles%26isDealerGrouping%3Dfalse%26rpp %3D50%26feedSegId%3D28705&aff=national&listType=1

If this car ever is within my price range it will be up against quite a lot of stiff competition. Used Carrera GT anyone (higher mileage of course)? Yes please. As DanaT mentioned earlier, a car like that demanding a price like that puts it in the realm of people like Seinfeld/Leno who just love cars and have to have one for collecting purposes.

GVFlyer
05-04-2013, 09:50
Ask and you shall receive...
http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg264/crahockey11/05.jpg (http://s250.photobucket.com/user/crahockey11/media/05.jpg.html)

http://www.cars.com/go/search/detail.jsp?tracktype=usedcc&csDlId=&csDgId=&listingId=96292709&listingRecNum=0&criteria=sf1Dir%3DDESC%26mkId%3D20081%26stkTyp%3DU%26mdId%3D20567%26rd%3D100000%26crSrtFlds%3DstkTyp Id-feedSegId-mkId-mdId%26zc%3D60514%26rn%3D0%26PMmt%3D1-1-0%26stkTypId%3D28881%26sf2Dir%3DASC%26sf1Nm%3Dprice%26sf2Nm%3Dmiles%26isDealerGrouping%3Dfalse%26rpp %3D50%26feedSegId%3D28705&aff=national&listType=1

If this car ever is within my price range it will be up against quite a lot of stiff competition. Used Carrera GT anyone (higher mileage of course)? Yes please. As DanaT mentioned earlier, a car like that demanding a price like that puts it in the realm of people like Seinfeld/Leno who just love cars and have to have one for collecting purposes.

The blue Turbo in the picture I put up in post #241 is Seinfeld's.

Bill Powell
05-04-2013, 10:17
I've outrun some pretty frisky IRS cars while driving this mustang.

M&P15T
05-04-2013, 11:49
I've outrun some pretty frisky IRS cars while driving this mustang.


VVVVvvvvvROOOOOOOM!!! Burble-burble-burble-burble-burble.....

Reds45acp
05-04-2013, 12:08
http://i956.photobucket.com/albums/ae41/pugcra/50_zps00d351f4.jpg



You are aware of the stupidly short life span of our tires, right?

Long life tires have no grip. I usually don't expect track tires to live much longer than 5 or 6 events.

The Pirelli P-Zeros that came on it have a 200 treadwear. If you don't run track events on them (They would SUCK for that BTW) they should get you about 20k miles. More than that is a bonus.




I've outrun some pretty frisky IRS cars while driving this mustang.

Watts-link rear ends are a wonderful thing. After my warranty runs out I'll be tossing one on the rear of mine. :)

Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk 2

GVFlyer
05-04-2013, 12:20
I've outrun some pretty frisky IRS cars while driving this mustang.

While that's got to be hardcore fun, it looks like a pretty pricey pastime.

GVFlyer
05-04-2013, 12:27
http://i956.photobucket.com/albums/ae41/pugcra/50_zps00d351f4.jpg



You are aware of the stupidly short life span of our tires, right?

I feel your pain; I just replaced the rear tires on my car.

http://www.tirerack.com/images/tires/michelin/logo_michelin.gif (http://www.tirerack.com/tires/michelin/michelin-tires.jsp)Pilot Sport PS2

http://www.tirerack.com/images/tires/michelin/mi_pilot_sport_ps2_ci2_l.jpgPrice:$419.00(each)

method
05-04-2013, 13:47
Clearly, what OP needs is a 1997 Subaru SVT - the ultimate collector sports coupe.

Note the highly stylistic windows around the windows. Distinctive no?

The car looks like what a Martian would render if given a telephone description of what an Earth car should look like.

http://subarusvx.files.wordpress.com/2012/02/subaru_svx_red_side.jpg

SVX, not SVT.