What's it take to become a Masonic lodge member [Archive] - Glock Talk

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Dalton Wayne
04-27-2013, 18:22
Do they recruit, I don't know any Masons but have a high interest in becoming one, never belonged to any type of organizations but would like to. don't want to join one of the drinking lodges like the moose as I don't drink.

skorper
04-27-2013, 18:42
Pretty sure you have to be invited to join by a current Mason.

sheriff733
04-27-2013, 18:45
Ask1 2b1

bigdogmurph
04-27-2013, 18:47
^^^^^ this

THEPOPE
04-27-2013, 18:53
I knew a fella that belonged....it's a money game club...most members have some large sum in the bank...

I believe you must be invited, that is, you must know someone already in it, then they give your name to the committee to peruse and check your contacts out...somebody must vouch for your good character .

Then there is a 'play' of sorts that you must 'act' in, secret handclasps, lots of secrecy involved ,according to my old friend....

I could be very wrong, this was many years ago he and I spoke of it...

i amout....lost my cap finger...:cool:

bigdogmurph
04-27-2013, 19:06
Not a money club. You will pay to get in and pay yearly dues @ 125.00 at my lodge. Everyone is equal in the lodge how much money you earn or have is not an issue.

sheriff733
04-27-2013, 19:15
Not a money club. You will pay to get in and pay yearly dues @ 125.00 at my lodge. Everyone is equal in the lodge how much money you earn or have is not an issue.

This.

JerseyJack
04-27-2013, 19:18
I would find out what night the lodge in your area have their meetings and stop by and meet the members. The guys in my lodge are very friendly. Google your lodge I'm sure they have a sight with information. Worse comes to worse go right to the state of Florida sight.

Caver 60
04-27-2013, 19:25
My advice is, investigate it carefully, before you join

I've been invited to join, but when I talked to the guy who invited me for awhile he decided to get out of it.

I don't know your religious beliefs, and I know full well they claim not to be a religion, but there are plenty of sources that will give you the lowdown on them at a good Bible bookstore. Not so much on the internet. They will claim these books are all a big pack of lies.

BTW my brother was also in it, before he got out of it.

I know I'll get flamed for this post. Flame suit on.

Nite Nite.

GVFlyer
04-27-2013, 19:29
I knew a fella that belonged....it's a money game club...most members have some large sum in the bank...

I believe you must be invited, that is, you must know someone already in it, then they give your name to the committee to peruse and check your contacts out...somebody must vouch for your good character .

Then there is a 'play' of sorts that you must 'act' in, secret handclasps, lots of secrecy involved ,according to my old friend....

I could be very wrong, this was many years ago he and I spoke of it...

i amout....lost my cap finger...:cool:

The Masons are not as you describe. They are the most egalitarian of organizations and dedicated to service.

HollowHead
04-27-2013, 19:29
Their gun safety isn't all that:

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,113691,00.html

HH

BuckFiddy
04-27-2013, 19:36
PM sent.

G17Jake
04-27-2013, 19:42
Do they recruit, I don't know any Masons but have a high interest in becoming one, never belonged to any type of organizations but would like to. don't want to join one of the drinking lodges like the moose as I don't drink.

What do they do that interests you?

Dalton Wayne
04-27-2013, 19:47
What do they do that interests you?
If I knew what the did I would probably be a member they seem to be very secret and distinctive,
Just exploring an intrest as of now..

AirCav
04-27-2013, 19:50
Definitely not a money club. (my lodge dues are only $55/yr..it does vary) One of the principle Masonic tenets is that we all meet "on the level." Whatever "status" you may have outside the lodge stays outside. I have found this to be true.

You will not be invited. As someone mentioned, 2B1ask1 (to be one ask one). The idea being that we want to insure you are joining of your own free will and for the right reasons. Nobody coercing or recruiting you.

If you absolutely don't know anyone who is a Mason (you might be surprised if you ask around), call your local Mason's lodge (yep, they're in the phone book and may have a website) and simply express an interest, explain your situation, and they will surely accommodate you. They will likely have someone who will vouch for you after they get to know you a bit.

I encourage you to pursue your interest in Masonry. You will find that it's not nearly as mysterious or "secret" as the interweb and conspiracy fans would have you believe. I find it rewarding to be affiliated with a fraternity of good men who still value good character and brotherhood in a modern world that doesn't. I'm also intrigued by the historic connection to many great Americans.

There are many here with more Masonic knowledge than me but I'd be happy to try to answer any questions you might have either via PM or in GT's Freemason's Lodge (http://glocktalk.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?s=&daysprune=10&f=192) forum.

G29Reload
04-28-2013, 00:00
Do they recruit, I don't know any Masons but have a high interest in becoming one, never belonged to any type of organizations but would like to. don't want to join one of the drinking lodges like the moose as I don't drink.

Its a bizarre, dying cult thats at odds with christianity if that matters to you.

Ronny
04-28-2013, 00:08
As a regular masonic lodge member I'll tell you it is against the rules to ask someone to join. Guys might tell their friends the benefits of it and give them a petition but will never actually ask. It has to be of your own free will and accord. Other than that you need to be 21 years of age and of good reputation (not a felon), and not be an atheist.

Ronny
04-28-2013, 00:28
I knew a fella that belonged....it's a money game club...most members have some large sum in the bank...

I think that actually was true of the New York masons in the late 19th century with the Tammany Hall gang and remains true of a few clandestine lodges but is not at all true of ordinary masonry. If you want to join a money club I'd suggest various country clubs the more elite of which are invitation only, not masonry.

zoyter2
04-28-2013, 00:54
I knew a fella that belonged....it's a money game club...most members have some large sum in the bank...

I believe you must be invited, that is, you must know someone already in it, then they give your name to the committee to peruse and check your contacts out...somebody must vouch for your good character .

Then there is a 'play' of sorts that you must 'act' in, secret handclasps, lots of secrecy involved ,according to my old friend....

I could be very wrong, this was many years ago he and I spoke of it...

i amout....lost my cap finger...:cool:


Oh my hell. First, for most, it has nothing to do with money. I WISH my Lodge was some sort of "money pool" and that most of my Brothes had big money. :rofl:

Second, you will not be invited. One may ask you "why you haven't joined", but if someone ASKS you to join, rest assured at best, they are breaking rules, and at worst, not a true Masonic Lodge.

Third, as a Mason, there is nothing you MUST do. It is all "of your own free will and accord".

As other have said. If you have an interest, just ask one. Feel free to PM me and I can have a Brother in your area get in touch. Be assured you will generally be among some of the best men you will ever meet.

zoyter2
04-28-2013, 00:55
Its a bizarre, dying cult thats at odds with christianity if that matters to you.

Interesting. Care to elaborate....with FACTS. :supergrin:

Rabbi
04-28-2013, 01:34
My advice is, investigate it carefully, before you join

I've been invited to join, but when I talked to the guy who invited me for awhile he decided to get out of it.

I don't know your religious beliefs, and I know full well they claim not to be a religion, but there are plenty of sources that will give you the lowdown on them at a good Bible bookstore. Not so much on the internet. They will claim these books are all a big pack of lies.

BTW my brother was also in it, before he got out of it.

I know I'll get flamed for this post. Flame suit on.

Nite Nite.


I wont flame you for what you believe, I will flame you for what you claim. You were not (or you should not have been) "invited" to join anything. That is not how it works. Making such a claim makes everything else you say, suspect.

http://www.tshirtbooth.com/productimages/designs/masonica2.gif

Rabbi
04-28-2013, 02:05
Its a bizarre, dying cult thats at odds with christianity if that matters to you.

From many Presidents to Astronauts, Entertainers to Athletes. From the founders of this Country to the Judges of our courts. From the Leaders of many Nations to the captains of many industries....

....all the way down to countless unknown good men who desire to be better who make up the majority of Freemasons.

Not dying. Not bizarre. Not a religion. Not a cult. A brotherhood of men.

If it is not for you, that is fine. There are a number of things I dont like. That doesnt make them bizarre.

G29Reload
04-28-2013, 02:35
From many Presidents to Astronauts, Entertainers to Athletes. From the founders of this Country to the Judges of our courts. From the Leaders of many Nations to the captains of many industries....
.

Beyond irrellevent

Cochese
04-28-2013, 03:26
Beyond irrellevent

How so, exactly?

Men of all walks of life enjoy the brotherhood. Takes away the bizarre claim, as well as the dying claim.

You sound like a pretty ignorant fella.

jp3975
04-28-2013, 03:48
My advice is, investigate it carefully, before you join

I've been invited to join, but when I talked to the guy who invited me for awhile he decided to get out of it.

I don't know your religious beliefs, and I know full well they claim not to be a religion, but there are plenty of sources that will give you the lowdown on them at a good Bible bookstore. Not so much on the internet. They will claim these books are all a big pack of lies.

BTW my brother was also in it, before he got out of it.

I know I'll get flamed for this post. Flame suit on.

Nite Nite.

Lets say my Bible Bookstore doesnt know anything about it. What did yours tell you?

Just because somebody at the local bookstore tells you something doesnt make it true.

Maybe it is true, but if you're going to make accusations that the group isnt kosher, you should at least say what your issue with them is.

I know a guy who's about as Christian as they come and has been a member for quite some time. If they where doing anything unchristian, I think he'd take issue.

Perhaps all lodges arent the same? All churches certainly arent.

jp3975
04-28-2013, 04:04
I googled a bit and found this on wiki:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opposition_to_Freemasonry_within_Christianity

The Christian opposition seems like much to do about nothing to me. As those against it dont seem to have a rational reason to be against them.

One of the reasons listed that Catholics where against it was because Masons believe in separation of church and state.

I could find no reasoning that is Bible based that would prevent you from becoming a member.

Hyksos
04-28-2013, 04:32
The secretary of my lodge is an ordained minister. Some of the most religious men I know are masons.

To the OP: you live in Florida. If you want to know more please PM me I can tell you what Florida masonry is all about and I can direct you to your local lodge. Dinners are free and open to the public. You can attend and ask the brothers there any questions you have about masonry. It is the best thing I ever did (joining). It is not a religion but religious in nature.

To all those people who think it's anti Christian, just FYI a bible must be present on the altar at all times in every state in the USA.

In Israel it would be a Torah, and in those Islamic countries where it isn't banned (turkey) you will find a Koran. Any other questions please PM me.

Sean
32nd degree Scottish Rite Mason
Chairman for the fraternal endowment committee for the 34th Masonic district

Mrs. VR
04-28-2013, 04:36
I come from an extremely masonic family. Dad/grandfather/ brothers/uncles, dad is still very involved in his late 70's and is a Shriner Clown. Every month he takes sick kids to the hospital in Philly where they receive free treatment.. My brothers and I were all very involved in Masonic youth groups ( I still am, as an advisor, now that my daughter is very involved) and I'm also in OES ( although I only joined for my parents and rarely go). We are also Jewish, yet sadly, we have neither the Masonic OR the Jewish secret hoard of gold. :p

It has been absolutely a positive influence in all our lives. We have gained amazing friendships, learned the value of service, and many lifelong skills. ( when I was 18 I was the head of our State girls youth group, and had many amazing opportunities to travel, learn public speaking skills, etc). there are wonderful people in all walks of life, but I've found a disproportionate number of wonderful people in our Masonic families.

nmk
04-28-2013, 04:50
Its a bizarre, dying cult thats at odds with christianity if that matters to you.

That's cute. :upeyes:

deputy tom
04-28-2013, 05:35
OP much of the information in this thread is true. One thing however is that each state has a Grand Lodge and they have rules and regulations of their own. In Pennsylvania the Grand Master a few years ago changed the rules by permitting us to ask friends to join. I am not familiar with the Florida GL regulations. Take Sean up on his offer. Good luck in your search. tom.

Hyksos
04-28-2013, 05:37
Alright since there seems to be discussion about Christianity and Masonry having issues with each other, I will address the main issue between Catholicism and Masonry. I will first present some historical facts, and then some Masonic lore associated with those facts.

EDIT:

I should add that I know many Catholic Masons, and Masonry does not have any negative views towards Catholics. The Catholic Church on the other hand, is not very favorable to Masonry.

Facts

The Knights Templar (KT) became a very powerful and rich society because they would guard pilgrims going to the holy land. They were the first "international bankers" so to speak because they would take your money in France, give you a ticket, escort you tothe holy land, and then you would turn in your ticket for cash. As a result, they became prestigious and wealthy. The Catholic church did not like this, and ended up accusing them of all sorts of heresies such as spitting on the cross and worshiping a false idol named Baphomet (thought to be a bad translation of Mohammad). Ultimately, Pope Clement V had the KTs rounded up and executed. Their leader was burned alive at the stake, their riches were seized and given to the Knights Hospitallers of St. John (now known as the Knights of Malta).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacques_de_Molay

Lore

Some KTs survived and fled to Scotland where they saved Robert De Bruce from certain defeat. As a reward, he gave them protected status in Scotland and they helped build Rosslyn chapel (this is debated). It is also said that the KTs eventually found safety within English and Scottish stonemason guilds, and it was in these masonic guilds that KTs were able to survive and pass down their rituals. Ultimately, the stone mason guilds allowed in intellectuals such as doctors and lawyers, and became what is known as modern day freemasonry (called speculative masonry). Operative masonry is the masonry where you actually build buildings.

To this day the Catholic church accuses the Masons of the same heresies that they accused the KTs of. It's like an ancient battle that been going on for hundreds of years.

The KTs survive today within the higher degrees of Freemasonry.

Back to Facts

Within Masonry there are Knight Templar degrees. The York Rite has their own degree, and the Scottish Rite has the 30th Degree Knight Kadosh (holy knight). The Knight Kadosh is essentially a Knight Templar degree. Some info can be found here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knight_Kadosh

Back to Lore

Albert Pike, the man who is essentially known as the founder of the Scottish Rite's current rituals, spoke heavily about this topic in the 30th chapter of his book Morals and Dogma. This book is his personal writings, it holds 0 authority in Masonry, and it is merely meant to be a commentary to the degrees. That being said, it is still a very very entertaining read. In the 30th chapter, he says some things such as:

(note this was all written in the 1800s long before internet)


An hundred years ago it had become known that the Knights Kadosh‎ were the Templars under a veil, and therefore the Degree was pro-scribed, and, ceasing to be worked, became a mere brief and formal ceremony, under another name. Now, from the tomb in which after his murders he rotted, Clement the Fifth howls against the successors of his victims, in the Allocution of Pio Nono against the Free-Masons. The ghosts of the dead Templars haunt the Vatican and disturb the slumbers of the paralyzed Papacy, which, dreading the dead, shrieks out its excommunications and impotent anathemas against the living. It is a declaration of war, and was needed to arouse apathy and inertness to action.

An enemy of the Templars shall tell us the secret of this Papal hostility against an Order that has existed for centuries in despite of its anathemas, and has its Sanctuaries and Asyla even in Rome.


"The Templars, or Poor Fellow-Soldiery of the Holy House of the Temple intended to be re-built, took as their models, in the Bible, the Warrior-Masons of Zorobabel, who worked, holding the sword in one hand and the trowel in the other. Therefore it was that the Sword and the Trowel were the insignia of the Templars, who subsequently, as will be seen, concealed themselves under the name of Brethren Masons. [This name, Frères Masons in the French, adopted by way of secret reference to the Builders of the Second Temple, was corrupted in English into Free-Masons, as Pythagore de Crotone was into Peter Gower of Groton in England. Khairu_m or Khu_r-u_m, (a name mis-rendered into Hiram) from an artificer in brass and other metals, became the Chief Builder of the Haikal Kadosh, the Holy House, of the Temple, the Ἱερος Δομος; and the words Bonai and Banaim yet appear in the Masonic Degrees, meaning Builder and Builders.]

"The end of the drama is well known, and how Jacques de Molai and his fellows perished in the flames. But before his execution, the Chief of the doomed Order organized and instituted what afterward came to be called the Occult, Hermetic, or Scottish Masonry. In the gloom of his prison, the Grand Master created four Metropolitan Lodges, at Naples for the East, at Edinburg for the West, at Stockholm for the North, and at Paris for the South." [The initials of his name, J∴ B∴ M∴ found in the same order in the first three Degrees, are but one of the many internal and cogent proofs that such was the origin of modern Free-Masonry. The legend of Osiris was revived and adopted, to symbolize the destruction of the Order, and the resurrection of Khu_ru_m, slain in the body of the Temple, of KHU_RU_M ABAI, the Master, as the martyr of fidelity to obligation, of Truth and Conscience, prophesied the restoration to life of the buried association.]

"The Pope and the King soon after perished in a strange and sudden manner. Squin de Florian, the chief denouncer of the Order, died assassinated. In breaking the sword of the Templars, they made of it a poniard; and their proscribed trowels thence-forward built only tombs."

[The Order disappeared at once. Its estates and wealth were confiscated, and it seemed to have ceased to exist. Nevertheless it lived, under other names and governed by unknown Chiefs, revealing itself only to those who, in passing through a series of Degrees, had proven themselves worthy to be entrusted with the dangerous Secret. The modern Orders that style themselves Templars have assumed a name to which they have not the shadow of a title.]


First of all, I have the actual book, but this is a copy/paste from an online source. It is substantially the same. Secondly, just remember that within every rumor there is some kernel of fact.

jakebrake
04-28-2013, 05:38
Its a bizarre, dying cult thats at odds with christianity if that matters to you.

or, since you don't have facts, need a crowbar?

jakebrake
04-28-2013, 05:40
Interesting. Care to elaborate....with FACTS. :supergrin:

no. he wouldn't, because he doesn't have any.

jakebrake
04-28-2013, 05:46
to the o.p. it's not a money club. Some of my lodge brothers are affluent, some of us work 16 hour days.

it's not a cult. any more than your local moose lodge, elks, kiwanis, or anything else.

some of us are christians, some of us are jews. (we even have a member that is one generation from african royalty).

if you have questions, there are quite a few of us that happen to be glocktalkers. (oh...wait....we're a cult....aaaaaaggghhhh..get the tinfoil). and will gladly do whatever we can to help if you decide to join.

Hyksos
04-28-2013, 06:01
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Declaration_on_Masonic_Associations

Catholic Church's official stance on Masonry.

Lowjiber
04-28-2013, 06:09
Do they recruit, I don't know any Masons but have a high interest in becoming one, never belonged to any type of organizations but would like to. don't want to join one of the drinking lodges like the moose as I don't drink.
I've been a Mason for thirty two years and have never once even doubted that it was the best decision I ever made.

I like to say that the Masonic Lodge gives good men a chance to be even better.

Masons don't defend themselves from those who attack the fraternity. We simply don't need to.

FullClip
04-28-2013, 07:07
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Declaration_on_Masonic_Associations

Catholic Church's official stance on Masonry.


Oh Yeah!! Does that bring back some memories!!

When I was 16 one of my friends told me about the Demolay. I was kind of interested and asked my parents if they thought it was a good idea. .....:whistling:

Later that evening Father Nelligan visited the house and it was about as close to an exorcism as I ever want to be part of!!:wow:

My Dad was pretty big in the local KOC, and I guess thinking about being a Mason was a quick ticket for the express bus to hell!!:supergrin:

I'm neither now, but for sure both organizations do a lot of good work for the communities. Think the Masons win the prize for numbers though.

deputy tom
04-28-2013, 07:34
Oh Yeah!! Does that bring back some memories!!

When I was 16 one of my friends told me about the Demolay. I was kind of interested and asked my parents if they thought it was a good idea. .....:whistling:

Later that evening Father Nelligan visited the house and it was about as close to an exorcism as I ever want to be part of!!:wow:

My Dad was pretty big in the local KOC, and I guess thinking about being a Mason was a quick ticket for the express bus to hell!!:supergrin:

I'm neither now, but for sure both organizations do a lot of good work for the communities. Think the Masons win the prize for numbers though.


Around thirty two years ago I was the WM of our Lodge. The WM of a nearby Lodge was also the presiding officer of the KoC at the same time. He told me the two organizations were almost exactly the same. Who would have thought? tom. :dunno:

Bruce M
04-28-2013, 07:50
What do they do that interests you?

http://www.worldofstock.com/slides/PCU7620.jpg

Hyksos
04-28-2013, 08:10
Oh Yeah!! Does that bring back some memories!!

When I was 16 one of my friends told me about the Demolay. I was kind of interested and asked my parents if they thought it was a good idea. .....:whistling:

You know that's a good point I didn't even think to bring up. The Masonic youth organization is called "demolay"...which so happens to be the last name of the Grand Master of the Templars who was burnt at the stake. Another reason why I imagine Father Nelligan wasn't too happy about hearing that.

TK-421
04-28-2013, 08:50
My grandpa's dad was a Mason and a Minister, and he said he made better friendships with the Masons, than he did with the church. I don't remember the denomination he was, but it was the one where they move the Minister around every few years, so the congregation doesn't get too attached.

And when I lived in the northern part of Texas, I knew a Mason. He said it was a great organization, he loved it, made some great friends, and he even told me that if I wanted to join then he'd vouch for me. I don't know though, it just never interested me very much. But he never had anything but praises for his Lodge, and it seems like it'd be a great thing to do, if that's your kind of thing to do.

I say contact your local lodge, let them know what's going on, let them know you want to join, and go from there.

selogic
04-28-2013, 09:28
I have a question . What are the " degrees " and how are they earned ?

jakebrake
04-28-2013, 09:32
I have a question . What are the " degrees " and how are they earned ?

they are the steps that you take to becoming a mason. every one of us has done them.

i won't go into too much detail, but, they are something that the father of our country had done.

degrees have rapidly become my favorite part of the lodge. doing degree nights.

Hyksos
04-28-2013, 10:08
There are 3 degrees.

1st degree Entered Apprentice

2nd degree Fellowcraft

3rd degree Master Mason

The "blue lodge" is the body that is responsible for conferring these degrees. These are the lodges in your area. In the blue lodge, all 3rd degrees are equal.

The York Rite and Scottish Rite each have their own degrees that they confer. Although a man may be a 32nd degree Mason (like myself), I have no more say than a Master Mason when I am in blue lodge.

The Scottish Rite meetings though are another thing. The Scottish Rite may exclude Master Masons that have not received the Scottish Rite degrees yet. Same with York Rite. But, when it boils down to it, the blue lodge is the lifeblood of Masonry because they are the only body that can initiate men into Masonry. All the other bodies require you to be a Mason to join them.

When you join, you are initiated as an Entered Apprentice. You must then learn various things, and perform a proficiency in front of the lodge. If the lodge finds you proficient, you are eligible to become a 2nd degree. Repeat until you attain the 3rd degree.

Then you can join the York Rite or Scottish Rite or Shrine.

Mrs. VR
04-28-2013, 10:13
Just a quick brag, I'm not gonna post a link for obvious reasons but our local newspaper recently had a great article about our lodge open house day, with a pic of my daughter and a couple of other Rainbow Giris.

lethal tupperwa
04-28-2013, 10:20
our lodge had dinners with

Knights of Columbus

B'nai Brith

we all seemed very much alike.

Hyksos
04-28-2013, 10:30
Just a quick brag, I'm not gonna post a link for obvious reasons but our local newspaper recently had a great article about our lodge open house day, with a pic of my daughter and a couple of other Rainbow Giris.

My home lodge did an open house a few years ago. It even made the newspaper:

http://www.gainesville.com/apps/pbcsi.dll/bilde?Site=GS&Date=20100727&Category=ARTICLES&ArtNo=7271007&Ref=AR&MaxW=728&logo=/images/watermark.gif&logoxpos=0&logoypos=0

http://www.gainesville.com/article/20100727/articles/7271007

Mr Spock
04-28-2013, 10:36
Since I also know next to nothing about the Masons... Are the Masons all about the religion? What I mean, is if everyone is treated as an equal, does that include someone who doesn't believe in religion? As a follow-up, is an affirmative belief required to join, and is religion pushed within the lodge?

Hyksos
04-28-2013, 10:38
Since I also know next to nothing about the Masons... Are the Masons all about the religion? What I mean, is if everyone is treated as an equal, does that include someone who doesn't believe in religion? As a follow-up, is an affirmative belief required to join, and is religion pushed within the lodge?

No atheist can be made a mason. You must profess belief in a supreme being. Dinners open with prayer. The lodge is opened and closed with prayer. There is always a bible present on the altar. It is religious in nature.

Bakercountyboy
04-28-2013, 10:51
One of the best decisions I've ever made was becoming a Mason. Love my brothers!

posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire (http://www.outdoorhub.com/mobile/)

zoyter2
04-28-2013, 11:23
Since I also know next to nothing about the Masons... Are the Masons all about the religion? What I mean, is if everyone is treated as an equal, does that include someone who doesn't believe in religion? As a follow-up, is an affirmative belief required to join, and is religion pushed within the lodge?

Masonry is not so much "all about the religion" as is it is 'all about helping you with YOUR religion'. Masonry tells us that no club, organization, or entity comes before the duties that one owes to HIS God, but does not address what God that may be.

You see, Masonry teaches man to apply his religion, even telling us that without that reverence to God, no man will be complete, but does not supply that religion.

zoyter2
04-28-2013, 11:29
Might I add to that, the above post is what often causes Christians (and other religions) to despise Masonry. They are under the misconception that Masonry is "anti-God" because it doesn't require member to worship THEIR God.

Masonry acknowledges, even WARNS its members that regardless of your advancement in Masonry, no matter how much work you do in Masonry, or how much good you do for others, without following the rules of YOUR God or religion, you will not benefit.

Churches often advise its member to avoid Masonry. I wonder how many of theses spiritualists understand that one fundamental difference in Church and Masonry is that Masonry advises it Members that the Church (a man's deity and worship) MUST be regarded ahead of Masonry?

In short, Masonry cannot give you a pathway to salvation or eternal reward, and warns you in no uncertain terms of this, but regardless of the religion you believe, Masonry will help you along that pathway by strengthening the important beliefs of virtually every religion, among the most important of these beliefs are a regard to friendship, a moral life, and loving one's brothers.

certifiedfunds
04-28-2013, 11:46
Is a Shriner a mason? I always thought they vetted their members well but I know one who is an absolute scumbag.


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Mr Spock
04-28-2013, 13:07
No atheist can be made a mason. You must profess belief in a supreme being. Dinners open with prayer. The lodge is opened and closed with prayer. There is always a bible present on the altar. It is religious in nature.

All I needed to know. Thanks.

Mr Spock
04-28-2013, 13:11
Masonry is not so much "all about the religion" as is it is 'all about helping you with YOUR religion'. Masonry tells us that no club, organization, or entity comes before the duties that one owes to HIS God, but does not address what God that may be.

You see, Masonry teaches man to apply his religion, even telling us that without that reverence to God, no man will be complete, but does not supply that religion.

Is there an equivalent or similar organization that isn't focused on religion, or includes non-religious members? I am talking about something that has similar features that would befit a non-drinking (read: no moose or elks) atheist?

Diesel McBadass
04-28-2013, 15:36
what do masons do when they meet, like, hang out? Just wonder what day to day mason activities are like

lethal tupperwa
04-28-2013, 15:55
the first obligation you took also applies to the internet.

Khao
04-28-2013, 16:03
The truth is you just need to believe in god, and pay a membership fee.

My friend and I showed up to a lodge a few years ago, just curious about everything. We left after talking to a bunch of middle aged men in kilts for about an hour, thoroughly uncomfortable.

Thumpernator
04-28-2013, 16:12
Join the Loyal Order of Water Buffaloes. Looks like they have a lot of fun bowling and stuff. :whistling: Yabba-dabba-dooo.

Atlas
04-28-2013, 16:19
.....

Green_Manelishi
04-28-2013, 16:24
... you need to be 21 years of age and of good reputation (not a felon), and not be an atheist.

However, you don't need to be a Christian.

Batesmotel
04-28-2013, 16:24
www.glflamason.org

Go to the source. This is the website for the Grand Lodge Of Florida. Find a lodge near you and ask someone.

I an a Master Mason. York rite, Scottish Rite and a shriner. I am an officer of my lodge.

I am astounded at the massive amounts of false information on the internet about Masonry. Go talk to some masons. Ask hard questions and you will get straight answers.

Green_Manelishi
04-28-2013, 16:27
Masonry is not so much "all about the religion" as is it is 'all about helping you with YOUR religion'. Masonry tells us that no club, organization, or entity comes before the duties that one owes to HIS God, but does not address what God that may be.

You see, Masonry teaches man to apply his religion, even telling us that without that reverence to God, no man will be complete, but does not supply that religion.

What if your name is Anton Levay, or Aleister Crowley?

deputy tom
04-28-2013, 16:30
Is a Shriner a mason? I always thought they vetted their members well but I know one who is an absolute scumbag.




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In PA all Shriners must be Master Masons for membership. Yes sometimes a bad apple gets thru. tom. :dunno:



what do masons do when they meet, like, hang out? Just wonder what day to day mason activities are like


Stated meetings are dry and formal affairs. Light lunch afterwards in the social hall. tom.



the first obligation you took also applies to the internet.

Correct Brother, or anyplace else. tom. :cool:

Booker
04-28-2013, 16:37
From my internet research, you have to do the following to join:

1. Strip naked and get your bottom spanked

2. Sell your soul to the devil:supergrin:

Batesmotel
04-28-2013, 16:47
what do masons do when they meet, like, hang out? Just wonder what day to day mason activities are like

In a regular Masonic lodge there are basically two types of meetings.

A regular or business meeting is the normal monthly meeting. They review last months minutes, attend new business, discuss any activities the lodge is doing, sick report, finances, and may have and educational feature. This educational feature can be on any topic and will benefit the members in their daily lives. Many times we have had non masonic guests come and talk on a variety of subjects as well as strictly masonic lessons. There can be a meal or refreshments before or after the meeting. a variation of this is a Table Lodge where the meeting is conducted during a meal. these are especially fun. the best part can be just spending an evening with other men who share the same values and standards as you do. Regardless of political, ethnic, religious or economic status.

The other type of meeting is a Special meeting. Usually this is where the lodge is conferring one of the degrees on a new candidate.

Outside of these meetings we also get together to go to dinner an little known restaurants with our families. Hold charitable events. The officers will be attending a Bar Mitzvah for the son of a member later this year.

We also hold funeral services for deceased members if requested and preform cornerstone laying ceremonies for construction projects when requested.

In this day and age it is becoming unfashionable for men have fraternal bonds. I like bucking this trend. I enjoy spending an evening with men of the same mindset as me. It makes me a better man. Which makes me a better husband and father.

rj1939
04-28-2013, 17:01
Dad is a mason, I was raised up to believe that masons were supposed to be very good people, very good character and such. Most of the ones I knew of growing up were.
I had always been curious about it, dad was very old school and didn't say much about it..........and never pushed for me to join. I got into the lodge about two years ago, but my job situation changed shortly afterward and haven't been able to do as much with it as intended.

As I said earlier, I grew up thinking masons were good people..............in the past few years though, I have found that there are some real scumbags too. There was talk of several local lodges being closed due to lack of membership, at least one resorted to accepting scumbags to get their numbers up.

As with most things, the decline of the lodge has paralleled the decline of society.

Ronny
04-28-2013, 19:07
What if your name is Anton Levay, or Aleister Crowley?

I believe Crowley was an irregular mason. I do not know about LeVay's history but what he advocates is a form of humanist atheism and so is probably an atheist and not eligible for membership. Were he not an atheist I'd generally be of the opinion that he might benefit from masonry. I wouldn't discriminate in a vote against someone with an unusual religion although there are some who actually might. If they are too far out of left field they might get fed up with us and not show up anymore though, and if they do they'll better apply masonic philosophy and become a better person. I have a friend in a local lodge who is a Buddhist, the only Buddhist mason I'm aware of. By and far the biggest religion of members is Christianity, then Judaism, then general belief in deity and higher power, which is what I am myself. I have a supreme belief in divine providence or his spirit which permeates all, much like some of our founding fathers did. No atheist will be admitted, but anyone who is of good moral character who believes in a higher power may join.

In lodge we use the term "great architect of the universe" for God. While the term was a Christian invention of John Calvin to refer to the Lord, we do not necessarily use it as such. Rather it is a reminder of the supreme power that is above us all. And that's all, there isn't any religious discussion in lodge. I'm not sure if your reference to Crowley or LeVay was meant as incendiary or serious but I hope this clarifies it for you.

gjk5
04-28-2013, 19:36
In this day and age it is becoming unfashionable for men have fraternal bonds. I like bucking this trend. I enjoy spending an evening with men of the same mindset as me. It makes me a better man. Which makes me a better husband and father.

Agreed, whether it be Masons or another fraternal organization, or even a more informal type of bonding (multigenerational hunting camps, fishing camps etc).

As far as the religious aspect; it all depends on your particular denomination, when I was young the "christian bookstore" sold books and comics to kids showing the pope getting his orders directly from Satan. LDS were portrayed as secret demon worshipers too. They also had Chick Publications stuff. Not exactly a font of literature and information.

Growing up in a Fundie house gives you a unique perspective....

TK-421
04-28-2013, 19:49
There are 3 degrees.

1st degree Entered Apprentice

2nd degree Fellowcraft

3rd degree Master Mason

The "blue lodge" is the body that is responsible for conferring these degrees. These are the lodges in your area. In the blue lodge, all 3rd degrees are equal.

The York Rite and Scottish Rite each have their own degrees that they confer. Although a man may be a 32nd degree Mason (like myself), I have no more say than a Master Mason when I am in blue lodge.

The Scottish Rite meetings though are another thing. The Scottish Rite may exclude Master Masons that have not received the Scottish Rite degrees yet. Same with York Rite. But, when it boils down to it, the blue lodge is the lifeblood of Masonry because they are the only body that can initiate men into Masonry. All the other bodies require you to be a Mason to join them.

When you join, you are initiated as an Entered Apprentice. You must then learn various things, and perform a proficiency in front of the lodge. If the lodge finds you proficient, you are eligible to become a 2nd degree. Repeat until you attain the 3rd degree.

Then you can join the York Rite or Scottish Rite or Shrine.

What is the second highest degree that you can be? Is it 34th? I don't remember exactly, my grandpa told me once, but his dad was the second highest degree you could be, I just don't remember the number.

And doesn't the person with the very highest degree actually live at the lodge? Or is that just a rumor?

TrybalRage
04-28-2013, 19:51
I have respect for Masons, and the charitable things that they do. I am impressed with the history of the organization, and the role of many of it's members had in the founding of our nation.

I even looked into reaching out to a lodge to inquire about membership.

Unfortunately I believe that some of the oaths you are required to take conflict with Matthew 5:33-37 which teaches to take no oaths, which would weigh heavy enough on me to deter me from further looking into it.

Green_Manelishi
04-28-2013, 19:58
In lodge we use the term "great architect of the universe" for God. While the term was a Christian invention of John Calvin to refer to the Lord, we do not necessarily use it as such. Rather it is a reminder of the supreme power that is above us all. And that's all, there isn't any religious discussion in lodge. I'm not sure if your reference to Crowley or LeVay was meant as incendiary or serious but I hope this clarifies it for you.

My grandfather was a mason. His father was a member of the invisible empire. I've been asked if I am interested. On advice of three Pastors (two of whom are Scots) my response was "no". As a Christian I am wary of the Masons requirement to believe only in a "Higher Power". There are many "higher powers" that are not the Judeo-Christian God.

Rabbi
04-28-2013, 20:02
What is the second highest degree that you can be? Is it 34th? I don't remember exactly, my grandpa told me once, but his dad was the second highest degree you could be, I just don't remember the number.

And doesn't the person with the very highest degree actually live at the lodge? Or is that just a rumor?

"The second highest degree...."

That would be the 2nd degree. The 3rd degree is the highest degree in Masonry. .

There are appendant bodies in Masonry that have a degree structure. (you are thinking Scottish Rite, and 32 is the "second highest." 33 being the highest (and depending on if you are northern or souther jurisdiction will dictate how you get to 33).

Think of those other "higher" degrees like clubs within the club...but not "higher"

I get a kick out of the insanity and myths all this causes.

Oh well, I rode the goat!

Batesmotel
04-28-2013, 20:03
What is the second highest degree that you can be? Is it 34th? I don't remember exactly, my grandpa told me once, but his dad was the second highest degree you could be, I just don't remember the number.

And doesn't the person with the very highest degree actually live at the lodge? Or is that just a rumor?

The highest degree in the Scotish Rite you can earn is the32nd. The 33rd is given honorarily for service the fraternity and the community.

The only person I know of living at a lodge is the caretaker of the Salt Lake Masonic Temple. And he is not a Mason. Just an employee.

Rabbi
04-28-2013, 20:06
My grandfather was a mason. His father was a member of the invisible empire. I've been asked if I am interested. On advice of three Pastors (two of whom are Scots) my response was "no". As a Christian I am wary of the Masons requirement to believe only in a "Higher Power". There are many "higher powers" that are not the Judeo-Christian God.

I am not a Christian. You are.

Masonry requires YOU to believe in YOUR faith and me in mine. It doesnt ask you to mollify that in anyway.

What Masonry does supply is a forum for you and I to enjoy brotherhood. It brings together lots of like minded people, but it also brings together many people who would otherwise not be able to have brotherhood because in many ways they are not like minded. That is quite powerful and productive.

Ronny
04-28-2013, 20:08
What is the second highest degree that you can be? Is it 34th? I don't remember exactly, my grandpa told me once, but his dad was the second highest degree you could be, I just don't remember the number.

And doesn't the person with the very highest degree actually live at the lodge? Or is that just a rumor?

I really don't know. There are so many side organizations or appendant organizations that all have their own degrees that I don't think anyone even knows how many degrees there are. In Scottish rite there are 33 degrees, which are really 34 because there are two kinds of 33rd degrees, the honorary degree and the actual degree which gives the member a seat on the governing body of the Scottish rite. No one lives in the lodge so far as I know. If there was a homeless brother I can imagine him living in his lodge with permission of the master, until he got back on his feet, although I've never heard of anything like that I'm trying to think of circumstances where it might actually occur.

In the blue lodge there are 3 degrees, but really 4 because past master is a separate degree, which you need to be master of a lodge. In Red lodge they have more, in Scottish rite they have more, etc. My dad for example has four masonic degrees which are the 3 blue lodge degrees and 32nd degree Scottish rite. He's a 32nd degree mason but has 4 degrees, lol. If you tried to add up the degrees from all the appendant organizations I think they'd count into the hundreds. Whether any of them make you a higher ranked mason is of some controversy. In the organizations that give additional degrees they certainly do. My best guess is that some people get addicted to receiving degrees and to making a lot of dues payments for reasons that escape myself.

Ronny
04-28-2013, 20:15
My grandfather was a mason. His father was a member of the invisible empire. I've been asked if I am interested. On advice of three Pastors (two of whom are Scots) my response was "no". As a Christian I am wary of the Masons requirement to believe only in a "Higher Power". There are many "higher powers" that are not the Judeo-Christian God.

That's perfectly fine. As a mason I wouldn't want you to do anything that would violate your conscience. You can never go too far wrong erring on the side of upholding your highest ideals and ideas imo. The people who argue the point I think are more just trying to convince others for their own sake of not feeling slandered, which I think again is rather silly because all people will never agree on anything. No one will ever ask you to join, you have to want to. If someone says they don't like it I see no reason to continue telling them about it. Its not for everyone. Regards.

Mrs. VR
04-28-2013, 21:03
I've never known anyone to actually live in the lodge. In fact, most lodges I've ever been to share /rent building space with other groups. Our local lodge houses a church, a synagogue,a girl scout troop,as well as the lodge, Eastern Star Chapter and our Rainbw Assembly.

There us so much silliness and unbelievable nonsense " out there", but there are just as any ridiculous Goofball theories about any/everything else,,I suppose.

Ronny
04-28-2013, 21:07
Many times we have had non masonic guests come and talk on a variety of subjects as well as strictly masonic lessons.

How do they get past your tyler? Why would your master allow a nonmason in a tyled lodge under any circumstances? :shocked: Is your district deputy cool with this? That is bizarre imo.

Rabbi
04-28-2013, 21:17
How do they get past your tyler? Why would your master allow a nonmason in a tyled lodge under any circumstances? :shocked: Is your district deputy cool with this? That is bizarre imo.

Why does it have to be in a tyled lodge?


Lots of things can happen in a room next to a lodge.

Ronny
04-28-2013, 21:21
Why does it have to be in a tyled lodge?


Lots of things can happen in a room next to a lodge.

Well duh... I never thought of that. We have a LEO (lodge education officer) and occasionally a visiting brother who stands in for him, always part of lodge, after conducting business before being dismissed for refreshment. Of course if it were not in lodge it wouldn't matter. Sometimes I miss the obvious. lol

Batesmotel
04-28-2013, 21:31
How do they get past your tyler? Why would your master allow a nonmason in a tyled lodge under any circumstances? :shocked: Is your district deputy cool with this? That is bizarre imo.

It is not tyled at the time they are in the room. We call off. When the non masons are in the room the lodge is not at work. They are excused and we procede to close as a tyled meeting.

HarlDane
04-28-2013, 21:32
Would a Deist who believes in some form of unknowable higher power but not in any organized religion be accepted?

Batesmotel
04-28-2013, 21:38
Would a Deist who believes in some form of unknowable higher power but not in any organized religion be accepted?

In our jurisdiction we only ask if a man professes a belief in a Supreme Being. What and how he believes and how devoute or active he is in his belief is his own buisness.

Ronny
04-28-2013, 21:44
Would a Deist who believes in some form of unknowable higher power but not in any organized religion be accepted?

Would a Deist who believes in some form of unknowable higher power but not in any organized religion be accepted?

Yes, 100% yes. This was the most common belief of early masons to the best of my knowledge. I believe in 'divine providence' and an all encompassing spirit. The Christians have a habit of taking over organizations and they have to a certain extent made a lot of lodges Christian, requiring a belief in the Bible or something but that is unique to a few lodges, but it'll never really be a religious group, except for some of the appendant orgs which might be. To join the commandery for instance you must have a trinitarian christian belief, buts that's totally separate from craft masonry.

hpracing007
04-28-2013, 21:55
interesting... how long does it take to get to the top? how much time and money would one have spent?

TK-421
04-28-2013, 22:01
I really don't know. There are so many side organizations or appendant organizations that all have their own degrees that I don't think anyone even knows how many degrees there are. In Scottish rite there are 33 degrees, which are really 34 because there are two kinds of 33rd degrees, the honorary degree and the actual degree which gives the member a seat on the governing body of the Scottish rite. No one lives in the lodge so far as I know. If there was a homeless brother I can imagine him living in his lodge with permission of the master, until he got back on his feet, although I've never heard of anything like that I'm trying to think of circumstances where it might actually occur.

In the blue lodge there are 3 degrees, but really 4 because past master is a separate degree, which you need to be master of a lodge. In Red lodge they have more, in Scottish rite they have more, etc. My dad for example has four masonic degrees which are the 3 blue lodge degrees and 32nd degree Scottish rite. He's a 32nd degree mason but has 4 degrees, lol. If you tried to add up the degrees from all the appendant organizations I think they'd count into the hundreds. Whether any of them make you a higher ranked mason is of some controversy. In the organizations that give additional degrees they certainly do. My best guess is that some people get addicted to receiving degrees and to making a lot of dues payments for reasons that escape myself.

If I had to take a wild stab, I'd guess he was part of the Scottish rite, but I truly have no idea. I need to talk to my grandpa more about his dad, the Masons have always interested me, and I've always wanted to know more about them.

And I honestly have no idea where I heard that there is one guy who lives in the lodge. I might have picked it up from my grandpa, maybe it was an old tradition that was done for his dad's lodge, I don't know, I don't remember where I heard it. It's also entirely possible that it's purely rumor and doesn't actually happen

That's part of the fun of learning about the masons, it's not exactly easy to pick out fact from rumor.

Batesmotel
04-28-2013, 22:01
interesting... how long does it take to get to the top? how much time and money would one have spent?

In my lodge the three degrees cost $425. That mostly covers the cost of renting the lodge room. Most people finish in less than a year. There is some memorization to be completed for each degree. How fast you finish depends on how fast you memorize. I did one in a week. I was sick in bed and had nothingn else to do. Dues are $120 a year.

Rabbi
04-28-2013, 22:04
interesting... how long does it take to get to the top? how much time and money would one have spent?



To become a Master Mason, will take several months (at least, my Jurisdiction gives you a year to get it done).

It doenst cost the same everywhere but a couple of hundred bucks at most and then annual dues...which can be under a hundred bucks a year in some places and several hundred a year in others.

Onc can move up into leadership roles or into other Masonic groups after they are a Master Mason.

It really isnt an expensive experience. One would probably spend a more joining an adult softball league.

Diesel McBadass
04-28-2013, 22:05
I kind of think if the masons werent so secretive, if there was more defined fact and less rumor, they may get more people to attend

Batesmotel
04-28-2013, 22:07
It really isnt an expensive experience. One would probably spend a more joining an adult softball league.

I is one of the least expensive thngs I do. And has one of the greatest returns.

Ronny
04-28-2013, 22:07
interesting... how long does it take to get to the top? how much time and money would one have spent?

Initiation fees and first year dues were a grand total of $165 at my lodge. That covered all the expenses of the lodge in the stuff you're given which I won't get into because I don't want to spoil it for you if you do it. Time, usually a minimum for 30 days between degrees, usually 6 or 8 months total. There are also one day classes where they give candidates receive all three degrees. I'd avoid those and don't even like the idea of them though except for perhaps a man who's just been given orders to ship out for combat and who may benefit from his masonry while serving our country in peril of his life. But it has become common for lots of guys to do the one day class without any real reason to except to save time and avoid the memory work.

Rabbi
04-28-2013, 22:12
I kind of think if the masons werent so secretive, if there was more defined fact and less rumor, they may get more people to attend

Here is a thread, where a bunch of Masons are talking a lot about Masonry.

You want a map and a contact to the lodge closest to you (or any place)...google it. The Masons themselves will say "here we are"

Masons are happy to tell you a lot about various aspects of Masonry. Masons are not an secret group, they are a group with secrets and good people who are genuinely interested, without mercenary reasons and qualify(for example, cant be an athiest) can join.

It is true that Masonic membership has declined in a lot of places but there is actually a very real resurgence going on these days.

Ronny
04-28-2013, 22:12
I kind of think if the masons werent so secretive, if there was more defined fact and less rumor, they may get more people to attend

If you have a library card you can learn all the secrets. There really aren't any left, aside from what brother might confide to each other in confidence. Even within the tyled lodge the secrets are not that interesting. Guess who seconded the motion to pay the bills this month, lol.

stevelyn
04-28-2013, 22:28
Some of the finest and most upstanding men I've personally known were Masons and considering a significant number of the founding fathers were also Masons, I'd have no problem casting my lot with them.

You could always find yourself in much worse company.

Rabbi
04-28-2013, 22:37
Some of the finest and most upstanding men I've personally known were Masons and considering a significant number of the founding fathers were also Masons, I'd have no problem casting my lot with them.

You could always find yourself in much worse company.

One would have to admit, a lot of fine people have been Freemasons.

here is a short list of some more notables.

http://famousmasons.com/

Daltini
04-28-2013, 23:02
Forgive me (because I am not trying to flame) for saying this sounds incredibly silly and juvenile...sounds like a club. What do you do and what is the point?

jerrytrini
04-28-2013, 23:03
We do not invite, recruit or have posters to join the fraternity. It is to your own accord. If you want to become a Mason ask a Mason. It is not a secret society but a society with secrets. Google for the closest lodge where you live.

Ronny
04-28-2013, 23:27
Forgive me (because I am not trying to flame) for saying this sounds incredibly silly and juvenile...sounds like a club. What do you do and what is the point?

It is a club. And one that is selective about who it admits. Not selective about money or status, but about generally moral characters joining. What is the point of any club? What is the point of scouting or or any association? In centuries past (George Washington's time) masonry was a conspiracy to overthrow tyrants and install egalitarian government among men. Masonry succeeded in this in at least 3 nations which are the United States, France, and Italy. This is also the true reason Catholicism has condemned masonry. They did not like having their power overthrown. Today regular masonry exists only as a fraternal organization since the original goal has been accomplished. The history channel has a pretty good documentary on the subject you can find on youtube, with input from a historian and 33rd degree mason on the subject, much better than I can explain myself.

A good book on the subject is Born in Blood: The Lost Secrets of Freemasonry (Hardcover): -John J. Robinson-: Amazon.com: Books@@AMEPARAM@@http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41Csmp2wXZL.@@AMEPARAM@@41Csmp2wXZL. I've bought probably 5 copies of this and loaned them to people and never had them returned. My step mom gave me this book when she and my dad were getting me interested in Masonry, and it did. And I'll add that even though my family is masonic they never asked me to join. They tried to encourage me in learning about it and such, but never asked me to. Joining was of my own free will and I was the one who asked for a petition and had my dad and uncle sign it. And my dad was very pleased when I decided for myself to join, a proud moment for him.

Daltini
04-28-2013, 23:48
It is a club. And one that is selective about who it admits. Not selective about money or status, but about generally moral characters joining. What is the point of any club? What is the point of scouting or or any association? In centuries past (George Washington's time) masonry was a conspiracy to overthrow tyrants and install egalitarian government among men. Masonry succeeded in this in at least 3 nations which are the United States, France, and Italy. This is also the true reason Catholicism has condemned masonry. They did not like having their power overthrown. Today regular masonry exists only as a fraternal organization since the original goal has been accomplished. The history channel has a pretty good documentary on the subject you can find on youtube, with input from a historian and 33rd degree mason on the subject, much better than I can explain myself.

A good book on the subject is Born in Blood: The Lost Secrets of Freemasonry (Hardcover): -John J. Robinson-: Amazon.com: [email]Books (http://www.amazon.com/Born-Blood-Secrets-Freemasonry-Hardcover/dp/B003ILRH9A/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1367208999&sr=8-2&keywords=Born+in+Blood). I've bought probably 5 copies of this and loaned them to people and never had them returned. My step mom gave me this book when she and my dad were getting me interested in Masonry, and it did. And I'll add that even though my family is masonic they never asked me to join. They tried to encourage me in learning about it and such, but never asked me to. Joining was of my own free will and I was the one who asked for a petition and had my dad and uncle sign it. And my dad was very pleased when I decided for myself to join, a proud moment for him.

Thanks. So it is more for nostalgia and tradition than an actual large scale political/power purpose? Or is it the core values and belief system that it is based on? Or just guys chilling out? Or really any combination...

Daltini
04-28-2013, 23:49
Nowadays that is...

Ronny
04-28-2013, 23:53
Thanks. So it is more for nostalgia and tradition than an actual large scale political/power purpose? Or is it the core values and belief system that it is based on? Or just guys chilling out? Or really any combination...

Just nostalgia/tradition. In centuries past it was literally a matter of life and death to keep secrets. Today we add to the oaths that we'll keep the secrets of brother masons "murder, treason, and other felonies excepted," and say the pledge of allegiance before we open every lodge. Its just a fraternity of men with a very rich history.

Hyksos
04-29-2013, 04:19
Just nostalgia/tradition. In centuries past it was literally a matter of life and death to keep secrets. Today we add to the oaths that we'll keep the secrets of brother masons "murder, treason, and other felonies excepted," and say the pledge of allegiance before we open every lodge. Its just a fraternity of men with a very rich history.

We don't have that "murder, treason, and other felonies excepted" down here. We're old school. We also still have the 3 symbolic penalties for each degree. It's my understanding that Canadian and British lodges have removed the symbolic penalties because, well, you know...

Also, to the poster who was concerned about "oaths."

Masons don't take "oaths" they take obligations.

Hyksos
04-29-2013, 04:28
Thanks. So it is more for nostalgia and tradition than an actual large scale political/power purpose? Or is it the core values and belief system that it is based on? Or just guys chilling out? Or really any combination...

Everyone gets different things out of Masonry.

Some people join for the fellowship with other like-minded men. Some like giving back to their communities through the charity work. Some come for the esoteric knowledge. Some end up becoming strict ritualists and learn the ritual in and out. Some join and then don't come to lodge very often because they'd rather study at home. Some join because they like being able to travel anywhere in the world and know they have Brothers nearby. Some join and then leave when they realize we aren't going to bestow them with magical powers and high ranking positions in the world.

You get out of Masonry whatever you put into it.

I joined for everything, but I've found that I really enjoy the esoteric knowledge that the Scottish Rite offers. I have many books that are published by Scottish Rite and I study at home and learn the teachings. I was an officer in the blue lodge but had to step out of the line because of personal reasons.

I love Masonry so much I got a Masonic tattoo.

http://s15.postimg.org/rcd2vwzej/Half_Sleeve1.jpg

http://s15.postimg.org/x3399n7ej/Half_Sleeve3.jpg

Spiffums
04-29-2013, 06:04
My advice is, investigate it carefully, before you join

I've been invited to join, but when I talked to the guy who invited me for awhile he decided to get out of it.

I don't know your religious beliefs, and I know full well they claim not to be a religion, but there are plenty of sources that will give you the lowdown on them at a good Bible bookstore. Not so much on the internet. They will claim these books are all a big pack of lies.

BTW my brother was also in it, before he got out of it.

I know I'll get flamed for this post. Flame suit on.

Nite Nite.

So you believe something from people who broke oaths? I can assure you there is NOTHING bad in Masonic Lodge. If you wanna throw up so called " people" who were Masons you can do the same thing with Cops. It is what you make of it.


To be one ask one. Yes it costs money to join for the 3 degrees but everything has bills to pay. I think you would enjoy it.

Spiffums
04-29-2013, 06:08
If I knew what the did I would probably be a member they seem to be very secret and distinctive,
Just exploring an intrest as of now..

It's a HUGE secret! There's a sign outside and everything!!!

Ok that's all the secret jokes I got.

Txnowtn
04-29-2013, 08:54
Here is a thread, where a bunch of Masons are talking a lot about Masonry.

You want a map and a contact to the lodge closest to you (or any place)...google it. The Masons themselves will say "here we are"

Masons are happy to tell you a lot about various aspects of Masonry. Masons are not an secret group, they are a group with secrets and good people who are genuinely interested, without mercenary reasons and qualify(for example, cant be an athiest) can join.

It is true that Masonic membership has declined in a lot of places but there is actually a very real resurgence going on these days.

What does your Lodge do if a black man walks in and asks to join?

Mushinto
04-29-2013, 10:04
I am not a Mason, nor would I consider joining. However, I have know some very fine men who are.

But, if they offered one of these as in incentive, I would be knocking on their door:

http://i196.photobucket.com/albums/aa137/Mushinto/ColtMasonic.jpg (http://s196.photobucket.com/user/Mushinto/media/ColtMasonic.jpg.html)

Rabbi
04-29-2013, 10:24
What does your Lodge do if a black man walks in and asks to join?

One of our black members will probably tell the same dumb joke to him they always do. Something along the lines of ... "We already have a black member...." or "I already got the job" :rofl:

of course, in this part of the world, someone might tell another joke about "are you sure you want to join a Mexican club like this?"

Sorry if you believe it to be otherwise or that doesnt fit with what kind of bait you were throwing out.

Here is a great FAQ, for all the world to see from a Texas lodge (not mine but under the same jurisdiction)+

http://www.dallasmasons.org/faq.html



Do you admit black men?


Yes. Men of all races are welcome to join our lodge.

ateamer
04-29-2013, 10:27
Also, to the poster who was concerned about "oaths."

Masons don't take "oaths" they take obligations.
What is the deal some people have with oaths? I've seen people in court get all butthurt and be drama queens about having to be sworn before testifying. Are they afraid to be held to their promise, or isit some kind of religious thing?

Spiffums
04-29-2013, 10:32
What does your Lodge do if a black man walks in and asks to join?

He would have talked to others and been pointed to a Prince Albert lodge. Which is a lodge that accepts and blacks and women in some nations.

Dubble-Tapper
04-29-2013, 10:36
In my small town there is a Masonic lodge. Many of the old religious people around here swear they worship satan. One of the county sheriffs is a member there, and when he was involved in a justified shooting, there was town gossip that he killed the guy to attain a higher mason rank.

People actually thought you must kill to advance. I don't know much about the Freemasons, but I know that is total BS.

I've often thought of joining for the history and brotherhood of positive men doing good things. That and I'd like to see where they keep the treasure map ;)


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Batesmotel
04-29-2013, 10:41
What does your Lodge do if a black man walks in and asks to join?

Hand them a petition and find out some things about them.

What they know about Masonry.
Who they know. Need to know a mason 6 months to submit a petition.
Do they believe in God.
Are they a felon.
Is their wife or family OK with them joining.
What questions they have.

The very foundations of Freemasonry are to bring unity to ALL men regardless of race, religion or social status.

Batesmotel
04-29-2013, 10:46
He would have talked to others and been pointed to a Prince Albert lodge. Which is a lodge that accepts and blacks and women in some nations.

Prince Hall (not albert) Lodges are predominantly but not exclusively black. But he would not be excluded from another lodge. We have a Prince Hall lodge that meets in the Salt Lake Masonic Temple. Great Brothers. I visit their lodge on occasion.

Thats another advantage of being a Mason. When you travel you are able to visit other lodges. Great way to meet people.

Rabbi
04-29-2013, 10:48
He would have talked to others and been pointed to a Prince Albert lodge. Which is a lodge that accepts and blacks and women in some nations.

You dont know what you are talking about.

It isnt a "Prince Albert" lodge. It is a Prince Hall lodge.

Hyksos
04-29-2013, 10:59
What does your Lodge do if a black man walks in and asks to join?

Treat him like any other man? Skin color has nothing to do with being qualified for Masonry.

https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-frc1/382100_10151436416928303_1202607130_n.jpg

A Jamaican, Persian, and two hispanic Brothers. This wasn't set up like this, it was merely how the chips fell. Bro. Camilo finally got his 3rd degree.

http://www.mastermason.com/VillageLodge315/gallery/degrees/fc0921/fc0921_0.jpg

Some brothers at a local lodge.

Just sayin.

elsolo
04-29-2013, 11:00
What is the deal some people have with oaths? I've seen people in court get all butthurt and be drama queens about having to be sworn before testifying. Are they afraid to be held to their promise, or isit some kind of religious thing?
I think it's a religious misunderstanding thing.

lethal tupperwa
04-29-2013, 11:05
fellow crafts? OK if you say so.

Hyksos
04-29-2013, 11:08
fellow crafts? OK if you say so.

Hey, don't blame me. Those pics come directly from the respective lodge's websites/facebooks of members involved. I didn't upload them myself. However, I have personally been to both of those lodges pictured.

My point was that skin color doesn't matter. We have members of all races.

Mr Spock
04-29-2013, 11:41
With all of this "first obligation" talk and the masons getting butthurt about other masons saying or posting pics that reveal too much.... This sounds a lot like fight club.

Is your first obligation really to not talk about FreeMasonryFightClub? I bet I know the second obligation!!

If it's your first time at FMFC, you gotta wear the kilt. Or fight. Whatever.

Ronny
04-29-2013, 15:51
What does your Lodge do if a black man walks in and asks to join?

In New York or here in Ohio we'd give him a petition. It started in NY to desegregate masonry first with visitation rights between Prince Hall and regular masonic lodges. Then they inducted a black member. Now everyone but the southern lodges at least have visitation right to visiting brethren. I do not know what would happen if a black mason from NY tried to attend a lodge in Tennessee but I suspect it could really get ugly starting with the brother being refused admission and then between the grand lodges revoking recognition of the offending grand lodge, essentially isolating it as a clandestine lodge if they refused to chastise the offending lodge. This has already happened between the West Virginia grand lodge and a few others I am sad to say. I'm glad to say though that the times are changing and more and more lodges are being integrated. The Prince Hall lodges have a vibrant history of their own and many of the black brothers might visit a regular lodge from time to time but have no interest in joining or switching lodges. The younger ones of all colors who have no affiliation yet with any though, are the future.

jakebrake
04-29-2013, 16:17
What does your Lodge do if a black man walks in and asks to join?

he would be more than welcome in our lodge. and, would be treated as equal.

if he is a visting mason, he will be welcomed.

our scottish rite had a prince hall honoree at fall consistory. r.w.g.m. of prince hall phila. he invited all to join him at his lodge, as we did for him.

if you see color, you don't get freemasonry. period.

jakebrake
04-29-2013, 16:24
With all of this "first obligation" talk and the masons getting butthurt about other masons saying or posting pics that reveal too much.... This sounds a lot like fight club.

Is your first obligation really to not talk about FreeMasonryFightClub? I bet I know the second obligation!!

If it's your first time at FMFC, you gotta wear the kilt. Or fight. Whatever.

rather than get all "butthurt" about it, let me recommend a book. "freemasons for dummies" by christopher hodapp. local library may have a copy (hey... i live in reality. not everyone wants to spend 20 bucks on a book to see what freemasonry is about).

check it out.

yes, we have tradtions we keep to ourselves. so far, we've been called satan worshippers, heard how we ride goats, pick the world leaders, and set the oil prices. none of those is a tradition.

and, Hyksos....how many sittings did that take???

Hyksos
04-29-2013, 16:24
We don't recognize Prince Hall Masonry in Florida. To us they are clandestine, and fake. However, it can be seen from my pics that we do not discriminate.

Marine123
04-29-2013, 16:25
Join the bandidos or the hells angels I be they're fun.


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Hyksos
04-29-2013, 16:31
My tattoo?

It was a total of 4 sittings, but really should have been 3.

April 2012 initial Knight Templar (4 hours)

June 2012 castle backdrop and cloud outline (4 hours)

March 2013 drawbridge (2.5 hours)

April 2013 water and final touch up/re-coloring (1.5 hours).

Total cost was $400 first sitting $400 second sitting $250 for 3rd and 4th. I'm very happy with the results. Seek out a proper tattoo artist. Discuss the topic with him. Make sure you have a solid idea of your end-game. I knew I wanted a half sleeve from the start.

jakebrake
04-29-2013, 16:32
My tattoo?

It was a total of 4 sittings, but really should have been 3.

April 2012 initial Knight Templar (4 hours)

June 2012 castle backdrop and cloud outline (4 hours)

March 2013 drawbridge (2.5 hours)

April 2013 water and final touch up/re-coloring (1.5 hours).

Total cost was $400 first sitting $400 second sitting $250 for 3rd and 4th. I'm very happy with the results. Seek out a proper tattoo artist. Discuss the topic with him. Make sure you have a solid idea of your end-game. I knew I wanted a half sleeve from the start.

that is amazing work! you should be pleased!

jdavionic
04-29-2013, 16:35
Quite an interesting thread. I have a lodge nearby and have been curious.

Ronny
04-29-2013, 16:40
Join the bandidos or the hells angels I be they're fun.


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Please post the video on youtube of you showing up to their clubhouse and asking for a membership petition. :rofl:

jakebrake
04-29-2013, 16:46
Quite an interesting thread. I have a lodge nearby and have been curious.

honestly, just talk to a mason about it. he can answer your questions. if you like what you hear, fill out a petition. in our lodge, you'd talk to 3 master masons to ask you questions, and answer any questions you may have. (my wife and daughter were also allowed to ask questions at that point as well). from there, things get interesting.

jakebrake
04-29-2013, 16:47
Please post the video on youtube of you showing up to their clubhouse and asking for a membership petition. :rofl:
i've seen one...it's commonly referred to as a "stomping" i believe.

Green_Manelishi
04-29-2013, 16:52
I am not a Christian. You are.

Masonry requires YOU to believe in YOUR faith and me in mine. It doesnt ask you to mollify that in anyway.

What Masonry does supply is a forum for you and I to enjoy brotherhood. It brings together lots of like minded people, but it also brings together many people who would otherwise not be able to have brotherhood because in many ways they are not like minded. That is quite powerful and productive.

Perhaps, but when three Christian pastors, one of whom has a family history with the Masons, warn me against becoming involved I heed their advice.

deputy tom
04-29-2013, 16:55
Perhaps, but when three Christian pastors, one of whom has a family history with the Masons, warn me against becoming involved I heed their advice.

Do as your conscience dictates. tom. :cool:

jakebrake
04-29-2013, 16:57
Perhaps, but when three Christian pastors, one of whom has a family history with the Masons, warn me against becoming involved I heed their advice.

and the masons didn't chase you down, and demand by force that you join?

Txnowtn
04-29-2013, 17:09
One of our black members will probably tell the same dumb joke to him they always do. Something along the lines of ... "We already have a black member...." or "I already got the job" :rofl:

of course, in this part of the world, someone might tell another joke about "are you sure you want to join a Mexican club like this?"

Sorry if you believe it to be otherwise or that doesnt fit with what kind of bait you were throwing out.

Here is a great FAQ, for all the world to see from a Texas lodge (not mine but under the same jurisdiction)+

http://www.dallasmasons.org/faq.html



Do you admit black men?


Yes. Men of all races are welcome to join our lodge.

"Throwing out bait"?? I asked a simple question. I was raised to Master Mason in Texas in 2002. At that time it was absolutely segregated. Black men were not accepted. Prince Hall Lodges were not recognized. We were not allowed to fraternize or communicate with black Masons. I looked at the Grand Lodge of Texas website today and saw no reference at all to Prince Hall Lodges.

If things have changed in Texas, that's great. It's about time.

Rabbi
04-29-2013, 17:24
Perhaps, but when three Christian pastors, one of whom has a family history with the Masons, warn me against becoming involved I heed their advice.

As everyone else has said...no one has even ever asked you to be a Mason. (or they shouldnt have anyways)

So if you dont want to be a Mason, not only is that fine but a Mason will not bother you about it.

jakebrake
04-29-2013, 17:26
So if you dont want to be a Mason, not only is that fine but a Mason will not bother you about it.

that's the difference between masons and non masons.

masons really don't mind if you aren't one.

Rabbi
04-29-2013, 17:28
"Throwing out bait"?? I asked a simple question. I was raised to Master Mason in Texas in 2002. At that time it was absolutely segregated. Black men were not accepted. Prince Hall Lodges were not recognized. We were not allowed to fraternize or communicate with black Masons. I looked at the Grand Lodge of Texas website today and saw no reference at all to Prince Hall Lodges.

If things have changed in Texas, that's great. It's about time.

You did not ask about Prince Hall Masons.

You asked

What does your Lodge do if a black man walks in and asks to join?

He is more than welcome and a number do.

If a Black man joins a lodge under the jurisdiction of the Grand Lodge of Texas, he wont be a "Black Mason" or anything else. He will simply be a Mason and a brother.

Ronny
04-29-2013, 17:39
If a Black man joins a lodge under the jurisdiction of the Grand Lodge of Texas, he wont be a "Black Mason" or anything else. He will simply be a Mason and a brother.

Same here in Ohio.

srhoades
04-29-2013, 17:42
Masonry is a direct result of 2nd century Greek Gnosticism. The symbols, rites, and creeds are fully pagan and totally traceable to pagan and occult practices. Gnosticism is a heresy, and since Masonry still holds to many of the same tenants, Christians still regard is as heresy. For a detailed explanation of Masonry and how it is incompatible with Christianity get the book "The Secret Teachings of the Masonic Lodge" by John Ankerberg and John Weldon. The book quotes heavily from Masonry's own documents and teachings.

What is comes down to is that, according to Masonry, you can achieve heaven through your own good works, which is contrary to the Christian gospel that we achieve heaven solely by the grace of God through the work of Christ on our behalf. Masonry is one more false religion that says man can save himself.

Rabbi
04-29-2013, 17:45
Masonry is a direct result of 2nd century Greek Gnosticism. The symbols, rites, and creeds are fully pagan and totally traceable to pagan and occult practices. Gnosticism is a heresy, and since Masonry still holds to many of the same tenants, Christians still regard is as heresy. For a detailed explanation of Masonry and how it is incompatible with Christianity get the book "The Secret Teachings of the Masonic Lodge" by John Ankerberg and John Weldon. The book quotes heavily from Masonry's own documents and teachings.

What is comes down to is that, according to Masonry, you can achieve heaven through your own good works, which is contrary to the Christian gospel that we achieve heaven solely by the grace of God through the work of Christ on our behalf. Masonry is one more false religion that says man can save himself.

Ok, I get it. You dont like it or want anything to do with it. Again, no Mason will ever try to get you to join.

...but you are wrong about what you think it is and where it comes from.

Atlas
04-29-2013, 17:55
...
...but you are wrong about what you think it is and where it comes from.

From where does it come?


.

Ronny
04-29-2013, 18:03
Masonry is a direct result of 2nd century Greek Gnosticism. The symbols, rites, and creeds are fully pagan and totally traceable to pagan and occult practices. Gnosticism is a heresy, and since Masonry still holds to many of the same tenants, Christians still regard is as heresy. For a detailed explanation of Masonry and how it is incompatible with Christianity get the book "The Secret Teachings of the Masonic Lodge" by John Ankerberg and John Weldon. The book quotes heavily from Masonry's own documents and teachings.

What is comes down to is that, according to Masonry, you can achieve heaven through your own good works, which is contrary to the Christian gospel that we achieve heaven solely by the grace of God through the work of Christ on our behalf. Masonry is one more false religion that says man can save himself.

You're mistaken about what gnosticism is for one thing (look up the demiurge and archons) and also mistaken about the philosophical roots of masonry which are Greek/Egyptian and fully hermetic, not at all gnostic. Esoteric masonry is based on hermeticism not gnosticism. The books you referenced are obviously poorly researched if they wrote that gnosticism was of Greek origin as well. The only part of your claim that is accurate is that "symbols, rites, and creeds are fully pagan and totally traceable to pagan and occult practices" which is nice to have philosophy that predates modern time, but is also equally true to your Christian practices and philosophy as well. I get the strong impression that you think any religion based on ancient paganism other than Christianity is bad. If you'd like to discuss the subject fully I ask that you post a thread in the religious subforum to avoid a total thread jacking of this one as I will not reply for further discussion on the subject in this thread. I'm glad to school you, son, just not in this thread.

Rabbi
04-29-2013, 18:03
From where does it come?


.

I am not going to spread the truths of Freemasonry but I can point out something being said that is false.

SRS
04-29-2013, 18:06
Every time this subject comes up I'm reminded of The Simpsons' Stonecutters episode:

The Simpsons - We Do - YouTube

SDGlock23
04-29-2013, 18:14
When you know that at the top they worship Lucifer, practice pagan rituals throughout, and maintain "the purity of the Luciferian doctrine", why would anyone want to be a Freemason? Yes the same Lucifer that was kicked out of heaven, Freemasons think that Lucifer is virtuous, wholesome and pure...insane.

jakebrake
04-29-2013, 18:20
When you know that at the top they worship Lucifer, practice pagan rituals throughout, and maintain "the purity of the Luciferian doctrine", why would anyone want to be a Freemason? Yes the same Lucifer that was kicked out of heaven, Freemasons think that Lucifer is virtuous, wholesome and pure...insane.

not to sound like a creep, but, you can prove that, can't you?

i'm a mason, and firmly believe that satan sucks.

elsolo
04-29-2013, 18:20
no Mason will ever try to get you to join.

I don't understand why this keeps being brought up.
I haven't read anybody here suggest they were recruited under duress to join the masons.

I do understand you have some rule(s) about recruiting, but no idea what they are because you guys also have rules about answering questions.

The response I keep seeing is go talk to a mason, if you don't know any (or know that you do), go to the local lodge and ask.

Are general questions only allowed to be answered under certain circumstances, perhaps only in person, to people who appear genuinely interested in joining? If you can't say, but that is just way off base, just point out it's falsehood.

Anyhow, back to recruiting or joining.
I keep seeing people post things like,
"Best decision I ever made"
Which is not recruiting, but obviously intended to get people who are curious about it to become more interested.

I had a couple friends do that sales pitch years ago, but unless I were to lie or get really creative with explaining what "god" might be so I could say I believe in god; I am prohibited. So I never went down and asked a bunch of questions at the lodge to learn if it was something I might be interested in

Rabbi
04-29-2013, 18:21
When you know that at the top they worship Lucifer, practice pagan rituals throughout, and maintain "the purity of the Luciferian doctrine", why would anyone want to be a Freemason? Yes the same Lucifer that was kicked out of heaven, Freemasons think that Lucifer is virtuous, wholesome and pure...insane.

No they dont.

Do you really think George Washington was a devil worshiper?

How about these guys, devil worshipers?

John Wayne
11 other US Presidents?
Audie Murphy
Sam Houston
Gene Autry
David Crockett
Buzz Aldrin
Bob Hope
Paul Revere
Samuel Colt

...aw hell, here is a small list

http://famousmasons.com/

Really, All these people worship the devil?

Hyksos
04-29-2013, 18:21
When you know that at the top they worship Lucifer, practice pagan rituals throughout, and maintain "the purity of the Luciferian doctrine", why would anyone want to be a Freemason? Yes the same Lucifer that was kicked out of heaven, Freemasons think that Lucifer is virtuous, wholesome and pure...insane.

You are ignorant of the past. Lucifer is a Latin word meaning 'light bearer.' It was a Latin word long before Christianity was created. It represents Venus the morning star (the first planet visible in the sky upon sunrise). It was eventually turned into evil by the Christians. If you do any research you will quickly learn that the "Lucifer" in the bible was merely the Christian attempt to wipe out the formerly Roman belief systems.

I'm not doubting that Jesus is the savior of humanity. I'm merely saying that just because people have worshipped God through various means does not mean that they were wrong. This whole we worship lucifer nonsense is just that....nonsense.

Rabbi
04-29-2013, 18:23
I don't understand why this keeps being brought up.
I haven't read anybody here suggest they were recruited under duress to join the masons.

I do understand you have some rule(s) about recruiting, but no idea what they are because you guys also have rules about answering questions.

The response I keep seeing is go talk to a mason, if you don't know any (or know that you do), go to the local lodge and ask.

Are general questions only allowed to be answered under certain circumstances, perhaps only in person, to people who appear genuinely interested in joining? If you can't say, but that is just way off base, just point out it's falsehood.

Anyhow, back to recruiting or joining.
I keep seeing people post things like,
"Best decision I ever made"
Which is not recruiting, but obviously intended to get people who are curious about it to become more interested.

I had a couple friends do that sales pitch years ago, but unless I were to lie or get really creative with explaining what "god" might be so I could say I believe in god; I am prohibited. So I never went down and asked a bunch of questions at the lodge to learn if it was something I might be interested in

If you are an athiest, Freemasonry is not for you. Nothing else beyond that matters.

elsolo
04-29-2013, 18:28
If you are an athiest, Freemasonry is not for you. Nothing else beyond that matters.

Are former athiests barred for life?

I am not claiming to currently be an athiest, but the rest of my previous post seemed to be missed because I mentioned that I used to define myself as one. The former "sales pitch" was nearly 20 years ago.

Ronny
04-29-2013, 18:28
You are ignorant of the past. Lucifer is a Latin word meaning 'light bearer.' It was a Latin word long before Christianity was created. It represents Venus the morning star (the first planet visible in the sky upon sunrise). It was eventually turned into evil by the Christians. If you do any research you will quickly learn that the "Lucifer" in the bible was merely the Christian attempt to wipe out the formerly Roman belief systems.

I'm not doubting that Jesus is the savior of humanity. I'm merely saying that just because people have worshipped God through various means does not mean that they were wrong. This whole we worship lucifer nonsense is just that....nonsense.

Besides that philosophical truth there have been some Cuneiform tablets translated in the last 50 years that prove incontrovertibly that Lucifer was an ancient Babylonian King. He was an actual flesh and blood human King who fell from power. The historical revelation puts a better understanding of the scripture's description of Lucifer's fall. Not from heaven at all, but from his position as an Earthly King. Only the poetic and symbolic language led people to think it was a supernatural creature. If Lucifer exists as a supernatural being of any kind it's as a Jungian thought form in the collective subconscious because he never really even was real in the supernatural sense. That is not to take away from his supernatural existence and a light bearer or Prometheus archetypal figure in the Jungian sense, but merely to put it in its proper historical perspective.

Ronny
04-29-2013, 18:30
Are former athiests barred for life?


Only if you're also a felon. :wavey:

elsolo
04-29-2013, 18:38
Only if you're also a felon. :wavey:
not a felon

Is the only way to get answers to questions about freemasonry, to look up the local masonic order in your town and go down to it to ask questions?

Is it better to just go to the library and read a bunch of stuff on the topic and hope to filter out the truth from the BS?

Private conversation with a mason you know, are they allowed to answer questions or is it mostly:
"go to the building where we get together, ask there"

Please don't confuse my posts with anything other than true curiosity about a group I harbor no feelings towards because I just don't know enough about what they do. All I know is a couple good men I used to be friends with 20 years ago were involved. My curiosity was stomped then, but times change.

Ronny
04-29-2013, 18:48
not a felon

Is the only way to get answers to questions about freemasonry, to look up the local masonic order in your town and go down to it to ask questions?

Is it better to just go to the library and read a bunch of stuff on the topic and hope to filter out the truth from the BS?

Private conversation with a mason you know, are they allowed to answer questions or is it mostly:
"go to the building where we get together, ask there"

Please don't confuse my posts with anything other than true curiosity about a group I harbor no feelings towards because I just don't know enough about what they do. All I know is a couple good men I used to be friends with 20 years ago were involved. My curiosity was stomped then, but times change.

Why not do both? You can do what you want. Read about them and ask them yourself. Get tickets for one of the spaghetti dinners and ask some of the guys about it. You might be let down on the initiation process if you read certain books because they tell everything and it can take the fun out of it if you know what's coming next. My local library has a copy of Duncan's Masonic Rituals, they really haven't changed much in the last 160 or so years since it was written, but if you read that sort of thing and then join you will lose a lot in the experience. Regards.

elsolo
04-29-2013, 18:55
Ronny,

Thanks for answering.
What I have read never got me very interested, but I am too ignorant to spot the BS on this topic.

What people I respect say "It's the best thing I ever did" that does get me very interested.

But how would a person know if they were interested in joining a group that they don't know hardly anything about? Unless you know masons, or family members were into it, the rest of us are pretty ignorant of the whole deal. Don't even know what you all do at meetings: play cards, plan charity fundraisers, secretly rule the world?

Ronny
04-29-2013, 19:26
Ronny,

Thanks for answering.
What I have read never got me very interested, but I am too ignorant to spot the BS on this topic.

What people I respect say "It's the best thing I ever did" that does get me very interested.

But how would a person know if they were interested in joining a group that they don't know hardly anything about? Unless you know masons, or family members were into it, the rest of us are pretty ignorant of the whole deal. Don't even know what you all do at meetings: play cards, plan charity fundraisers, secretly rule the world?
I'll say that if you've ever attended a general business meeting for a church or elks club or anything it is pretty similar to what is conducted, followed by a talk on some masonic topic, followed by refreshments and food out in the hall. If you're interested I'd just give a local lodge a call and tell them so and that you'd like to attend their next charity dinner and shoot the breeze with some of the guys there.

SDGlock23
04-29-2013, 19:28
No they dont.

Do you really think George Washington was a devil worshiper?

How about these guys, devil worshipers?

John Wayne
11 other US Presidents?
Audie Murphy
Sam Houston
Gene Autry
David Crockett
Buzz Aldrin
Bob Hope
Paul Revere
Samuel Colt

...aw hell, here is a small list

http://famousmasons.com/

Really, All these people worship the devil?

Yes they do. I mentioned at the "top" they worship Lucifer, how far "up" these guys were I don't know, but being famous means nothing in terms of whether or not they worshiped Satan.

SDGlock23
04-29-2013, 19:40
not to sound like a creep, but, you can prove that, can't you?

i'm a mason, and firmly believe that satan sucks.

Yeah satan is the definition of a loser, but just look up the stuff. There's tons of it out there, they're main symbol is the phallus...male genitals depicted as obelisks. It's very pagan, and they blend paganism, demonology and occult symbolism. The problem is that at the ground level it looks good, it's only when you get up in degrees that bit by bit they reveal more and more to you. Many of the higher degree super influential mansons like Manly Hall and Albert Pike clearly claimed their god is Lucifer.

Ronny
04-29-2013, 19:45
Yeah satan is the definition of a loser, but just look up the stuff. There's tons of it out there, they're main symbol is the phallus...male genitals depicted as obelisks. It's very pagan, and they blend paganism, demonology and occult symbolism. The problem is that at the ground level it looks good, it's only when you get up in degrees that bit by bit they reveal more and more to you. Many of the higher degree super influential mansons like Manly Hall and Albert Pike clearly claimed their god is Lucifer.

Interesting links in your sig. The advice for a porn addict was great and almost as valuable to me as the Nibiru death star brochure. I'll be sure to buy my doomsday seeds from their link too. I wouldn't want to experience doomsday without being able to plant a garden afterwards. :whistling:

Caver 60
04-29-2013, 19:47
My advice is, investigate it carefully, before you join

I've been invited to join, but when I talked to the guy who invited me for awhile he decided to get out of it.

I don't know your religious beliefs, and I know full well they claim not to be a religion, but there are plenty of sources that will give you the lowdown on them at a good Bible bookstore. Not so much on the internet. They will claim these books are all a big pack of lies.

BTW my brother was also in it, before he got out of it.

I know I'll get flamed for this post. Flame suit on.

Nite Nite.

So you believe something from people who broke oaths? I can assure you there is NOTHING bad in Masonic Lodge. If you wanna throw up so called " people" who were Masons you can do the same thing with Cops. It is what you make of it.


To be one ask one. Yes it costs money to join for the 3 degrees but everything has bills to pay. I think you would enjoy it.

I can't believe this thread is still floating.

As long as prospective Masons realize that the Masonic Lodge is not a Christian organization (as has been well pointed out by many Masonic posters above) go ahead and join it. But don't count on that membership alone getting anyone into the 'Celestial Lodge Above'. If a person is a sincere Christian, they will make it to heaven, but it will be through Jesus, not because of Masonic affiliation. If a person is not a Christian, good luck.

I know there are many Christians who are members. In a given United States Lodge everyone may be a Christian. I've even heard of a Baptist minister who is a Mason. But that doesn't mean the Masonic Lodge is a Christian organization

Masons believe 'The Great Architect of the Universe' can be acknowledged by all men. They teach that Buddhist, Christians, Muslims, Hindus, etc. can all worship the Great Architect of the Universe without controversy as long as individual members acknowledge their belief in a supreme being.

The Bible teaches there is only one way to heaven and that is through Jesus. Yet the Masonic Lodge teaches a form of universalism (any path to god is OK) where all acknowledge a supreme being. Hindus for instance worship millions of gods, but they recognize one supreme god. So they can join the Lodge, because they believe in a supreme being.

The American Lodge may have a Bible on display, but obviously it is only a decoration. In some other countries the Koran or other religious books will be on display.

Many things in the Lodge violate the teachings of the Bible, starting with Matthew 5:34-37 and James 5:12. These verses don't prohibit oaths per say, they just prohibit untrue oaths. When confronted with the oaths of mayhem and murder that one takes during the degree process, I've had Masons say things like, 'we don't really do things like that, it's just part of the initiation ceremony, it's just symbolic, etc.' I then point out they are taking a frivolous oath (or obligation as some of you are trying to call it) in the name of God. If you can't see the Biblical violation, then I can't help you.

In the Lodge, prayer in the name of Jesus is prohibited during official functions and ceremonies. There might be a small town Lodge where everyone is a Christian and the name of Jesus slips out. But in a big city well regulated Lodge that is prohibited.

Those facts alone are reason enough for me not to join. There are many many other reasons.

Purchase and read some of the books I mentioned from a reputable Christian book store and learn for yourself where the controversy lies. I have about 8 or 9 Christian books by different authors. All tell basically the same story and they cite recognized Masonic authorities. Some are ex Masons. (I know every state is different and their is no universal standard, ) But are all these authors wrong, as the Masons claim? Must be one heck of a conspiracy?

SDGlock23
04-29-2013, 19:49
You are ignorant of the past. Lucifer is a Latin word meaning 'light bearer.' It was a Latin word long before Christianity was created. It represents Venus the morning star (the first planet visible in the sky upon sunrise). It was eventually turned into evil by the Christians. If you do any research you will quickly learn that the "Lucifer" in the bible was merely the Christian attempt to wipe out the formerly Roman belief systems.

I'm not doubting that Jesus is the savior of humanity. I'm merely saying that just because people have worshipped God through various means does not mean that they were wrong. This whole we worship lucifer nonsense is just that....nonsense.

Wake up man, are you trying to say that Lucifer is good? Lucifer/Sataniel wasn't created by a religion, he was created by God but cast out by God Almighty and now seeks to deceive mankind, like in the freemasons for instance. The Bible says Lucifer can appear as an angel of light, in other words he's incredibly deceptive.

The light behind the "all seeing eye" above the pyramid is lit by the light of Lucifer. Jesus (Gods only begotten Son) is the only way to the Father (God) so unfortunately for them, people just can't worship God anyway they want if they go through some other means besides Jesus.

srhoades
04-29-2013, 19:49
Once you get high enough you learn the secret word, Abbadon, who is the demon over the bottomless pit in the book of Revelation.

I find it odd that Masons always claim that Masonry is not a religion, yet you have to believe in a god to be a member. Truth be told is that you have to believe in the god of Masonry, who is the Grand Architect of the Universe. Of course they claim he is manifested in all sorts of ways: Allah, Yahweh, Jehovah, Buddha, etc. The god of Masonry is like a Las Vegas buffet; you pick what you like from whatever religion you come from and then synthesize that with paganism.

You can be a Christian and be Mason, as long as you deny the truth claims of Christianity. Which would, of course, invalidate your claim to be a Christian.


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Rabbi
04-29-2013, 19:52
Yes they do. I mentioned at the "top" they worship Lucifer, how far "up" these guys were I don't know, but being famous means nothing in terms of whether or not they worshiped Satan.

Yep, that is the answer people who spout of what you say always give..."those guys were not high up enough..."

Yeah, Ben Franklin, George Washington and others who did things like sign the Declaration of Idependendence and created this country....you know, the powerplayers...were not "high up" enough :rofl:

All those people didnt have a clue there were part of devil worship. :rofl:

There is simply nothing I can do to make you look dumber. So....Keep on talking.

SDGlock23
04-29-2013, 19:53
Interesting links in your sig. The advice for a porn addict was great and almost as valuable to me as the Nibiru death star brochure. I'll be sure to buy my doomsday seeds from their link too. I wouldn't want to experience doomsday without being able to plant a garden afterwards. :whistling:


Glad you enjoyed them, maybe your seeds will come in handy for you. Or you could turn to Jesus before it's too late.

SDGlock23
04-29-2013, 20:10
Yep, that is the answer people who spout of what you say always give..."those guys were not high up enough..."

Yeah, Ben Franklin, George Washington and others who did things like sign the Declaration of Idependendence and created this country....you know, the powerplayers...were not "high up" enough :rofl:

All those people didnt have a clue there were part of devil worship. :rofl:

There is simply nothing I can do to make you look dumber. So....Keep on talking.

Never said they weren't high up enough, to what degree I'm unsure of, as they say 33rd degree is the highest, but really goes beyond that, although Franklin was a Grandmaster. And who ever said they didn't have a clue as to what they were in to, oh wait you did. I'm sure they knew very well what they were into.

I know who these men were but that doesn't change that they were involved in occult practices. Especially Franklin, since he was part of the hellfire club, a fraternity involved in drinking, sex/orgies and ridiculing Christianity.

hpracing007
04-29-2013, 20:13
Especially Franklin, since he was part of the hellfire club, a fraternity involved in drinking, sex/orgies and ridiculing Christianity.

Is that one still around and accepting members? :whistling:

Rabbi
04-29-2013, 20:17
Never said they weren't high up enough, to what degree I'm unsure of, as they say 33rd degree is the highest, but really goes beyond that, although Franklin was a Grandmaster. And who ever said they didn't have a clue as to what they were in to, oh wait you did. I'm sure they knew very well what they were into.

I know who these men were but that doesn't change that they were involved in occult practices. Especially Franklin, since he was part of the hellfire club, a fraternity involved in drinking, sex/orgies and ridiculing Christianity.

You dont have a clue what you are talking about. You are repeating things you have heard. Where ever you heard it from...they were idots.

listen. I get that some people dont like Masonry....but that doesnt change what it is. Your lies and misinformation, where ever it comes from are just as foul and wrong as your think Masonry is.


Lets do a little math.

I am a Mason. You are not, nor have you ever been.

One of us knows the truth...WHATEVER THAT TRUTH IS.

...and it isnt you.

I KNOW something that the best you will ever be able to do is speculate on. I am telling the world, you are wrong. Flat out wrong.

SDGlock23
04-29-2013, 20:31
You dont have a clue what you are talking about. You are repeating things you have heard. Where ever you heard it from...they were idots.

listen. I get that some people dont like Masonry....but that doesnt change what it is. Your lies and misinformation, where ever it comes from are just as foul and wrong as your think Masonry is.


Lets do a little math.

I am a Mason. You are not, nor have you ever been.

One of us knows the truth...WHATEVER THAT TRUTH IS.

...and it isnt you.

I KNOW something that the best you will ever be able to do is speculate on. I am telling the world, you are wrong. Flat out wrong.

You're right, I'd never be a mason, it's satanic to the core. Look at all the occult symbolism they put right out in the open! All the rites and rituals! I can see through all of that and unfortunately it seems that you cannot, but I pray you will have your eyes opened.

Rabbi
04-29-2013, 20:34
You're right, I'd never be a mason, it's satanic to the core. Look at all they occult symbolism they put right out in the open! All the rites and rituals! I can see through all of that and unfortunately it seems that you cannot, but I pray you have your eyes opened.

I am Jewish, I dont even believe in "the devil." I am not worried about what YOU fear.


If you think Freemasonry is incompatible with your faith, that is fine.

My only dog in this hunt are the fact that you are WRONG about what Freemasonry is.

Aragorn77
04-29-2013, 20:52
You're right, I'd never be a mason, it's satanic to the core. Look at all the occult symbolism they put right out in the open! All the rites and rituals! I can see through all of that and unfortunately it seems that you cannot, but I pray you will have your eyes opened.

What occult symbolism? It has been said that Masonry is a "system of morality, veiled in allegory and illustrated by symbols." The rites and rituals are just that. Masonry is about making good men better. It is charitable organization, but not a charity. A religious organization, but certainly not a religion.

My hat's off to Rabbi! His answers and how's he's handled himself in this thread are exemplary. The same can be said for all the other masons who have contributed to this thread.

You are so far off base SDGlock23. I already know you and I will never agree on this, religion, or much of anything else for that matter (hopefully you at least like Glocks). I do however wish you would at least stop spreading lies about an organization you obviously know nothing about.

rockymtnhorror
04-29-2013, 20:52
I've been a Mason for years, and there's nothing satanic about the organization or the ritual. My lodge has Christians, Jews, a couple of Muslims, and a Hindu or two (it was in a big city). We even had a Deist. Nothing in the ritual would disallow your belief in a religious sect.

elsolo
04-29-2013, 21:08
You guys gotta expect rampant misinformation when you so highly prize secrecy.

I read through Duncan's rituals for a while, so far I understand that there a bunch of titles for people's positions, pomp and ceremony seem over the top, and secrecy is #1. Towards the beginning, it said that the secrecy was a bigger attractor to membership than philanthropic participation, perhaps it is for some.

Of course I am probably wrong, and rather than correct the misinformation, all that a freemason can do is point out that it is false (I think).

AirCav
04-29-2013, 21:30
Who started this thread and where did he go? :whistling:

Batesmotel
04-29-2013, 21:35
Who started this thread and where did he go? :whistling:

Joined the BPOE and had a drink?

Rabbi
04-29-2013, 21:37
Joined the BPOE and had a drink?

:rofl:

Aragorn77
04-29-2013, 21:42
You guys gotta expect rampant misinformation when you so highly prize secrecy.

I read through Duncan's rituals for a while, so far I understand that there a bunch of titles for people's positions, pomp and ceremony seem over the top, and secrecy is #1. Towards the beginning, it said that the secrecy was a bigger attractor to membership than philanthropic participation, perhaps it is for some.

Of course I am probably wrong, and rather than correct the misinformation, all that a freemason can do is point out that it is false (I think).

Although our rituals and forms are secret, I'm "guessing" anyone with a computer and a search engine could find out about them. Beyond that, I've seen lot's of Masons provide information here. Is there still some nagging question you have?

As for the OP, 2B1ASK1 should cover it.

elsolo
04-29-2013, 21:55
Although our rituals and forms are secret, I'm "guessing" anyone with a computer and a search engine could find out about them. Beyond that, I've seen lot's of Masons provide information here. Is there still some nagging question you have?

As for the OP, 2B1ASK1 should cover it.

I think I learned enough from this thread, and the suggested resources to have most of my curiosity quenched. I don't "get it", but I know enough to think it's probably not for me.

20 yrs ago, when I was most curious, the internet sucked.
Now, there is so much conflicting info, I thought it would be better to just ask the GT braintrust since several of you are freemasons and seemed willing to entertain basic inquiry about the organization.

Now I suppose I'll read up on the other popular philanthropic and fraternal organizations, since I don't know squat about the Kiwanis, Lyon's club, Shriner's, or such. There are aspects of being a part of such an organization I find appealing, but I don't know much about them at this point.

Aragorn77
04-29-2013, 22:42
Well, the Shriners are a Masonic organization ;)

As far as being for you, it may not be. I really didn't think it was for me, but I've thoroughly enjoyed it. I would like to think I'm a better person for it. I made friendships and met many brothers in lodge that I would have never met other wise.

Our lodge gives to three or four local food pantries every year. We've also recently set up a scholarship fund in honor of a brother who died very young of brain cancer. My point being, that through masonry I have a chance to give back to my community. (Not that there aren't plenty of ways to do that.)

I like the fact that I'm part of something that goes back hundreds of years. My lodge will be 200 years old in 2018. We are what's called a moon lodge. We meet every month on the Thursday on or before the full of the moon. That's because back in the day, a brother would have to rely on moonlight to get home after a lodge meeting.

I also find I like the ritual. There are many great orations that are part of the Masonic ritual. Learning and performing the ritual has not only been educational, it's been fun!

It's a personal decision to join and not one to be taken lightly. I'm glad I did, but only you can decide what's best for you.

pewpewpew
04-30-2013, 01:28
Are there really still religious wackos who just KNOW that their particular storybook bad guy is behind everything they can't understand, or that people who do stuff they don't do must secretly be worshiping satan? Are Freemasons really the devil? Magic: The Gathering? Pokémon? Or is it just that your simple minds have two filing cabinets: Hear from good church man... GOOD...TRUE, ACCEPT UNCRITICALLY! *grunt* or Never see this before...MUST BE BAD GUY SPECIFIC TO MY RELIGION! ONONONONONONO!

It's a good thing you insane retards aren't in charge of who does and does not get burned at the stake anymore.

Hyksos
04-30-2013, 01:35
Just an FYI to those who would look down on Masonry. 200,000 masons were killed in the holocaust. Hitler didn't like Masons either. So, to those of you who hate Masons for "devil worshipping" just rest easy knowing that you and Hitler shared something in common.

In many Muslim countries it's also illegal to be a Mason. In Saudi Arabia the penalty for being a mason is death. So, you're also on the same page as radical Islam. Who woulda thought anti-Masons would find friends in Nazis and Muslims?

Ronny
04-30-2013, 01:53
Just an FYI to those who would look down on Masonry. 200,000 masons were killed in the holocaust. Hitler didn't like Masons either. So, to those of you who hate Masons for "devil worshipping" just rest easy knowing that you and Hitler shared something in common.

In many Muslim countries it's also illegal to be a Mason. In Saudi Arabia the penalty for being a mason is death. So, you're also on the same page as radical Islam. Who woulda thought anti-Masons would find friends in Nazis and Muslims?

That is just as silly as some of the arguments anti-masons use. Guilt by association is not relevant here. Totalitarian regimes universally condemn masonry because at the core of the organization is a conspiracy to overthrow tyrants and install egalitarian governments. In 1930's Germany, the Pope governing the Papal States, or Saudi Arabia today masons literally existed if at all as a subversive dissident group that plotted to overthrow tyrants. Just like our founding fathers did in America, France, and Italy. While the philosophy we teach is ancient, the organizational structure is much less so and it did begin in the late middle ages as conspiratorial groups. We distance ourselves from that today as we live in a pretty free country enjoying the benefits of our founding fathers treason. While we have a tyler out of tradition Arabian masons if there are any, have a tyler as a very real lookout, perhaps better much better armed than with a sword and fully prepared to keep cowans and ease droppers out with lethal means. Masons in some lands might still require the penalties of their obligations be kept, because discovery of their activities means certain death. We take it for granted now comfortable in our masonicly built nation, but that's where it comes from. That's the reason tyrants hate freemasonry but that's not the reason certain Christian fundamentalists hate masonry.

Hyksos
04-30-2013, 02:00
Yes it is. They hate it because they're intolerant of any beliefs except their own. That was my point. That Masonry flourishes in a free environment, and those anti-masons are on the wrong side of history.

Plus your example isn't 100% universally true. For example a past Grand Master I know went to Cuba to study their Masonry. Communist dictatorship...what do you think the status of Masonry is there?

You might be surprised to know that it is flourishing. They have more lodges in Cuba than Florida has (and Florida has about 350 lodges). I was told the communists infiltrated masonry long ago and realized it was not a threat to their government. That's my point...that it takes a certain type of totalitarian to truly despise Masonry.

Hyksos
04-30-2013, 02:05
In Latin America Masonry is still very much a status and money thing. We've had Brazilian, Ecuadorean, and Nicaraguan masons come through our lodge (I do live in Miami after all), and they paint a different picture about Masonry.

Basically, if you live in the favelas in rio, you ain't getting in because you can't afford it. It's unlike here... Where lodge dues are pretty much payable by anyone (and we don't judge based on socioeconomic status).

Ronny
04-30-2013, 02:16
Point taken, and I concede it too. Now about Cuba though, I don't know what the status of masonry is in Cuba. I do know that the Cuban population in Florida is not at all of the same political philosophy that Cubans are in Cuba.

In Turkey, masonry is the only reason they are not an Islamic dictatorship. There have been several attempts over the last 90 years to install Islamic government and every time the brute force of the military, led by masons each time, stepped in and restored some form of democracy. Naturally, Masonry is unwelcome in Arabia and all the other Islamic countries since installing democratic governance is how it behaves. The acts of treason by the Turkish military were not done to make a strongman, just the opposite in fact, to ensure some sort of democracy.

Hyksos
04-30-2013, 02:27
I didn't know about turkey. Thanks for the info.

As for Cubans...Cuban people here are very pro American. But, I wasn't talking about Cubans in America. I was talkin about the country Cuba...we have an official representative who is charged with maintaining Cuban/American relations. He's a member of my scottish rite.

Also, you might find it interesting that Florida has 2 Spanish-speaking lodges (both in Miami). Clyde Mclaren Lodge and Luz de America lodge. I forget their numbers right now. Either way, let me tell you, you ain't seen a meeting until you've seen one of those Spanish meetings. Their work is all in old Spanish, and has been approved by the Grand Lodge. The WM is "Venerable Maestro" and the Wardens are known as "primero" and "secundo" (1st and 2nd) rather than senior and junior. They take their Masonry very seriously. The lodge was packed and they know their ritual to a T.

I speak enough Spanish to get by...but I'm glad I went with a Spanish speaker because otherwise I'd be lost!

air1mdh
04-30-2013, 03:30
The only secret in our lodge is the goat. One must fear the goat.

Ronny
04-30-2013, 03:32
The only secret in our lodge is the goat. One must fear the goat.

We need a new horn sharpener for our goat, they got dull again.

Peace Warrior
04-30-2013, 03:40
My patriarchs have a long history of masonic lodge membership.

To become a masonic lodge member, you have to either "kiss the goat," or "ride the goat." I chose to pass. Roughly 13 years later, I started attending a local church and soon after became a Christian.


BTW- There were no goats involved in my Christian "initiation."

lethal tupperwa
04-30-2013, 06:13
spoken like a True cowan.

certifiedfunds
04-30-2013, 06:39
My patriarchs have a long history of masonic lodge membership.

To become a masonic lodge member, you have to either "kiss the goat," or "ride the goat." I chose to pass. Roughly 13 years later, I started attending a local church and soon after became a Christian.


BTW- There were no goats involved in my Christian "initiation."

You might have enjoyed the goat. Now you will never know.

BTW, are masons short people? Seems like your feet would drag while riding the goat.


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Rabbi
04-30-2013, 06:51
My patriarchs have a long history of masonic lodge membership.

To become a masonic lodge member, you have to either "kiss the goat," or "ride the goat." I chose to pass. Roughly 13 years later, I started attending a local church and soon after became a Christian.


BTW- There were no goats involved in my Christian "initiation."

like so many other topics, like 9/11 or pretty much any conspiracy, I once again stand in amazement how some people are wired to be wrong no matter what.

I didnt kiss a goat or ride any goat to become a mason and who ever told you that is full of crap. That is simply not what you do....and I am not going to be the one to tell you what you actually DO have to do with the goat.

certifiedfunds
04-30-2013, 07:14
I would never admit to kissing a goat or "riding" a goat either.

That's the kind of thing you take to your grave.

Atlas
04-30-2013, 07:40
My patriarchs have a long history of masonic lodge membership.

To become a masonic lodge member, you have to either "kiss the goat," or "ride the goat." ...

...
I didnt kiss a goat or ride any goat to become a mason and who ever told you that is full of crap. That is simply not what you do....and I am not going to be the one to tell you what you actually DO have to do with the goat.


And yet, that bit of lore is very widely believed.
What do you suppose is the origin?

.

Rabbi
04-30-2013, 07:52
And yet, that bit of lore is very widely believed.
What do you suppose is the origin?

.

Obviously some loudmouthed goat.

SDGlock23
04-30-2013, 08:30
What occult symbolism? It has been said that Masonry is a "system of morality, veiled in allegory and illustrated by symbols." The rites and rituals are just that. Masonry is about making good men better. It is charitable organization, but not a charity. A religious organization, but certainly not a religion.

My hat's off to Rabbi! His answers and how's he's handled himself in this thread are exemplary. The same can be said for all the other masons who have contributed to this thread.

You are so far off base SDGlock23. I already know you and I will never agree on this, religion, or much of anything else for that matter (hopefully you at least like Glocks). I do however wish you would at least stop spreading lies about an organization you obviously know nothing about.

What symbolism?? You have eyes I'm sure, so use them. You know what Pike, Mackey, Hall, etc say about Masonry? That it's a modern revival of "ancient mystery religions" (the worship of Baal) and it's core philosophy is the occult Kabbalism.

It's obviously through your mentioning of it being a charitable organization that you're a low degree Mason, that's how the hook most people into joining. Please don't accuse me of spreading lies, lies are a terrible thing. It's okay that we don't agree on things (except that we like Glocks :) ), I can respect your opinions but I'm just trying to warn you and for that I hope in some capacity you can respect what I'm trying to do.

SDGlock23
04-30-2013, 08:34
I am Jewish, I dont even believe in "the devil." I am not worried about what YOU fear.


If you think Freemasonry is incompatible with your faith, that is fine.

My only dog in this hunt are the fact that you are WRONG about what Freemasonry is.

Your Jewish, and don't you know that Masonry has roots in Kabbalism? I can't help you if you don't believe, but I can warn you at the very least. You can take what I say and throw it out the window, and that's fine, but at least you've been warned. Masonry is incompatible with my faith because Masonry is depicted as a kind of universalistic religion "upon which all men can agree" so yes this means it cannot be Christian as it plainly denies that Jesus is God in the flesh.

Aragorn77
04-30-2013, 09:32
What symbolism?? You have eyes I'm sure, so use them. You know what Pike, Mackey, Hall, etc say about Masonry? That it's a modern revival of "ancient mystery religions" (the worship of Baal) and it's core philosophy is the occult Kabbalism.

It's obviously through your mentioning of it being a charitable organization that you're a low degree Mason, that's how the hook most people into joining. Please don't accuse me of spreading lies, lies are a terrible thing. It's okay that we don't agree on things (except that we like Glocks :) ), I can respect your opinions but I'm just trying to warn you and for that I hope in some capacity you can respect what I'm trying to do.

Masonry is full of symbolism, there's no denying that. If you want to define the occult as "knowledge of the hidden", then I suppose you are indeed correct.

As a typical westerner, I think of the occult as "knowledge of the paranormal or supernatural". Masonry contains none of that. Once again, we may have to agree to disagree, but the Masons have nothing to do with the occult based on this definition.

Beyond that, if you are not spreading lies SDGlock23, you are spreading ignorance. I am a master mason. That's it. I'm at the top of the heap ;) I serve as an elected officer in my lodge and am privy to ALL aspects of our business. No dark secrets, no strange worship, just a group of men seeking to improve ourselves and hopefully the lives of those around them.

Your fear of Masonry borders on prejudice. I actually find it similar to the anti's opinions on guns. It's based on feelings, fear, and misinformation. A mind is like a parachute....

Aragorn77
04-30-2013, 09:33
Masonry is incompatible with my faith

... and that is fine. I have in no way slandered your faith or beliefs.

Chuck66
04-30-2013, 09:34
Their gun safety isn't all that:

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,113691,00.html

HH


The linked story above is bizarre, and that ritual had no basis at all in traditional Freemasonry, and certainly was not sanctioned by any state's Grand Lodge.

Guns...flat out...are not and have not been a part of any legally constituted Masonic ritual and it would be wrong to judge a world-wide fraternity that is hundreds of years old based on the idiocy of once group of men in one lodge.

That's all I got. DW, if you still have any questions that I may help you with, PM me. I'm sure the others on here have answered your questions, but I'll offer up my shallow pool of knowledge anyway.:wavey:

Chuck66
04-30-2013, 09:43
My home lodge did an open house a few years ago. It even made the newspaper:

http://www.gainesville.com/apps/pbcsi.dll/bilde?Site=GS&Date=20100727&Category=ARTICLES&ArtNo=7271007&Ref=AR&MaxW=728&logo=/images/watermark.gif&logoxpos=0&logoypos=0

http://www.gainesville.com/article/20100727/articles/7271007

Beautiful lodge room.

Hyksos
04-30-2013, 09:47
Been there since 1890something. It's on the Florida Historic Buildings register. It's all stone, and also the tallest 2-story building in all of Gainesville.

Aragorn77
04-30-2013, 09:51
Beautiful lodge room.

Yup, very nice! Our lodge is older... but it just looks like an old lodge ;)

Thats' also a very good point Chuck66. The gun thing was so far out in left field I had forgotten all about that. Certainly not a part of any ritual I would want to participate in.

Hyksos
04-30-2013, 09:57
I've been lucky to be a part of beautiful lodges. My lodge in Miami is newer, but also very nice. They installed old movie theatre seats.

http://www.owdmasoniclodge145.org/2011-officer-installation/

Here's a pic of me receiving the Tyler's sword back in 2011. Our installations are open to the public (hence why there's women sitting in the lodge room).

http://www.owdmasoniclodge145.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/Pic20.jpg

Aragorn77
04-30-2013, 10:09
Very nice. I like the seats... although I could see them helping a few brothers doze off to sleep during a meeting. Our lodge used to be an inn. It's a fairly typical old New England building.

https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTuvzL6COGp7kng7c_90ZHchxlOYA5ZO9xxxq6hEn3-CI67V9f5

No inside pics, but it's kind of rustic compared to some lodges I've been in.

airmotive
04-30-2013, 10:17
Not really interested in Masonry, even though I came of age as a DeMolay.

I would, however, like to take this moment to thank SDGlock23 for re-affirming every reason I walked away from religion many years ago. It's good to see that some things haven't changed back in the ol' chicken coop.

Chuck66
04-30-2013, 10:43
Ok, maybe I do have something else. An example of one of the things we do. This one for another brother.

A Mason from NJ, call him Jerry, moved to our little corner of TN last year. 2 months ago, we got a call from the Master of his lodge, informing us that Jerry was in our area, and at the age of 37, has been diagnosed with stage 4 pancreatic cancer.

When the current Master asked Jerry what he could do to help, he was told that Jerry was here without much furniture for his new home, and some other household items. Current Master had arranged to rent a truck, acquired a load of furniture, etc. and planned to drive it to TN from NJ. He wanted help unloading the truck. My lodge put the word out and 5 of our members met the guy from NJ, helped him unload and set up the furniture.

Then, 3 weeks later, a group of more than a dozen brethren who had all served in the lodge as officers along with Jerry, came from NJ, GA, VA, SC and OH, and met again in TN, in our lodge, and presented him with some Masonic honors and a check for over $4000, to help Jerry with his medical bills.

We are brothers. We help and care for one another. We go out of our way, travelling hundreds of miles and giving freely of our time and money to help and support each other.

That charitable spirit also extends beyond the lodge walls. My lodge holds a coat drive for our lodge every year. We've donated over 1000 coats and hundreds of other articles of clothing to the local city schools Homeless Education program and Interfaith Hospitality Network in the last 3 years.

We also run a drive during which we gather and purchase stuffed animals that we give to the local chilrens advocacy agency that works with children who have been physically and sexually abused. The advocates use the animals as a bonding tool with the kids they serve. We also have fundraising dinners for other community efforts.

The Scottish Rite club in our county does a shoe drive every year, and puts new shoes on over 100 impoverished kids in our county annually.

Our lodge members who aren't Shriners still help the Shriners in our district collect donations during the annual paper sale, going on right now. Most people already know what value the Shriner's Hospitals for Children have to our country as a whole.

That's just some of what we do, for those that were asking. We aren't merely a social organization. Or we aren't supposed to be. Some lodges have degraded to that. If my lodge goes that way, I'll find another lodge.

Rabbi
04-30-2013, 11:52
Your Jewish, and don't you know that Masonry has roots in Kabbalism? I can't help you if you don't believe, but I can warn you at the very least. You can take what I say and throw it out the window, and that's fine, but at least you've been warned. Masonry is incompatible with my faith because Masonry is depicted as a kind of universalistic religion "upon which all men can agree" so yes this means it cannot be Christian as it plainly denies that Jesus is God in the flesh.

Stay focused. You are all over the place.

No one said Kabbalah until you just brought it up....and as a traditional Jew...uh, you do know that Kabbalah is a normative part of my religion and something I am rather familiar with. Why would I have a problem with it?

You are the one who has a problem with these things.

You are the one who is asserting what masonry is, and you are simply wrong. You are not and have never been a Mason. That would be a pretty strong indicator that you wouldnt be much of an expert on the subject.

If you dont want to be a Mason, dont be a Mason. That doesnt both Masonry.

But if you spread lies about Masonry, dont be surprised when that is countered.

BoomerMan
04-30-2013, 12:59
As one so taken and accepted, I have read with interest the 9 pages of replies to the OP. Like a road to travel, it wanders back and forth...for those with interest, I and others, simply ask you to investigate. And may you find whatever you are searching for...To those who from the outside cast stones rooted in ignorance, you only support your ignorance without help from any mason. As a Christian man, I would never let anyone or anything get between me and my Christ. I certainly wouldn't let masonry get there either. But it doesn't. Nor does it try to. It is an excellent organization full of men becoming better men while serving those in need. One of the things that interested me about masonry was that our country's heritage and founding was influenced by men who were masons - good men full of character and a strong sense of right and wrong...men who were willing to risk everything for the notion of a country like ours. I am not sorry for searching. And I now know more about what makes this country the greatest nation in the world. To the OP, as stated by others, ask one to be one. Peace, and good Glocking to you all.

jakebrake
04-30-2013, 14:03
Yeah satan is the definition of a loser, but just look up the stuff. There's tons of it out there, they're main symbol is the phallus...male genitals depicted as obelisks. It's very pagan, and they blend paganism, demonology and occult symbolism. The problem is that at the ground level it looks good, it's only when you get up in degrees that bit by bit they reveal more and more to you. Many of the higher degree super influential mansons like Manly Hall and Albert Pike clearly claimed their god is Lucifer.

al capone, and adolph hitler were altar boys. do you want to claim that they speak for the catholic church?

does fred phelps speak for the baptists?

if you get phallus out of the compass, the square , or the letter g, you really need to get your eyes checked, for, they are clearly failing you.

and, as far as climbing in degrees, where they tell you that we are actually worshipping satan, i'm a master mason in the blue lodge, and a 32nd in the scottish rite...so far, not a single mention of bowing down to worship satan. ironically, the bibles i was given are both king james. they seem to depict satan as a bad guy.

as far as looking stuff up, i can find where obama is a martian, derek jeter is gay, and judy garland was a man, if i look hard enough...that doesn't make it so.

NOLA_glock
04-30-2013, 14:35
Is this real life?

jakebrake
04-30-2013, 14:38
Is this real life?

depends...which part?

Mrs. VR
04-30-2013, 14:39
Haha! I guess now is a bad time to mention the Grand Lodge of Iran in Exile? :couch:

NOLA_glock
04-30-2013, 14:56
depends...which part?

The freemasonry/satan panic.

This can't be a real concern, can it?

:rofl:

ETA: My father, his brothers, their father, and his father are (were) all freemasons. Granted, I've never been interested in becoming a mason, but I've had a lot more experience with them than some people. I can't understand the fear. Maybe I just don't know what it's like to be religious.

jakebrake
04-30-2013, 15:13
The freemasonry/satan panic.

This can't be a real concern, can it?

:rofl:

ETA: My father, his brothers, their father, and his father are (were) all freemasons. Granted, I've never been interested in becoming a mason, but I've had a lot more experience with them than some people. I can't understand the fear. Maybe I just don't know what it's like to be religious.

sadly, yes. it's real. people ridicule and demonize what they don't understand. the internet, and books written by someone trying to make a buck are the best information available, so they must be right. (ironically, manly hall went on to become a freemason, after writing a book that demonized it...go figure)

if i lie is told often enough, it becomes the truth...at least to some.

Rabbi
04-30-2013, 15:17
Maybe I just don't know what it's like to be religious.

Dont confuse being religious with having bad information. Plenty of Masons are very religious. I am one of them.

Bad information that is believed is probably the most dangerous thing to humanity. All of us suffer because of bad information.

costanza187
04-30-2013, 15:20
Is this real life?

Is this just fantasy?

TnHawk-45
04-30-2013, 15:30
One GOOD thing has come from this thread. It has motivated me to go back and be active in my Blue Lodge again.

For those that are not Masons, I am truly sorry for you and will pray for you atheist or not.

For all the Brothers out there, HOWDY!

jakebrake
04-30-2013, 15:33
One GOOD thing has come from this thread. It has motivated me to go back and be active in my Blue Lodge again.

For those that are not Masons, I am truly sorry for you and will pray for you atheist or not.

For all the Brothers out there, HOWDY!

Brother! where do you travel from?

Rabbi
04-30-2013, 15:34
For those that are not Masons, I am truly sorry for you and will pray for you atheist or not.

!

There is no need for that. As has been said here already, Masons dont care if someone isnt a Mason.

deputy tom
04-30-2013, 15:40
I don't argue with the profane. tom.

Hyksos
04-30-2013, 15:45
I agree. You can show them why they're wrong (as Rabbi has patiently done), but after a certain point you have to realize that arguing isn't worth it because they will never believe you.

Edit:

Also, I don't really worry about attacks from profanes. God will never let our fraternity perish from this Earth because it is in such harmony with His will that He will not let it perish. (IMO).

deputy tom
04-30-2013, 15:51
I agree. You can show them why they're wrong (as Rabbi has patiently done), but after a certain point you have to realize that arguing isn't worth it because they will never believe you.

Edit:

Also, I don't really worry about attacks from profanes. God will never let our fraternity perish from this Earth because it is in such harmony with His will that He will not let it perish. (IMO).

Agreed. tom.

Al Czervik
04-30-2013, 16:04
I dont usually like to get involved in threads like this, but where were all of you free masons when I was building my house? I had to pay every single one. The worst part is one always brought a goat.
What was that about?


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airmotive
04-30-2013, 16:07
I dont usually like to get involved in threads like this, but where were all of you free masons when I was building my house? I had to pay every single one. The worst part is one always brought a goat.
What was that about?


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The Unionmasons accept atheists, but are more into sheep.:supergrin:

Mr Spock
04-30-2013, 16:13
There is no need for that. As has been said here already, Masons dont care if someone isnt a Mason.

That mason does, apparently.

Rabbi
04-30-2013, 16:23
That mason does, apparently.

He may but it is not Masonic to do so.

Anymore than Fred Phelps is the sole becon to represent Christianity. As someone in this thread said, Hitler was an alter boy but I dont judge all Catholics because of it.

If anything, the fact that the immediate response from *within* was "against" it should do well to prove the point. (as with the countless times such sentiment as I have expressed has been repeated, here and everywhere else)

Rabbi
04-30-2013, 16:24
I dont usually like to get involved in threads like this, but where were all of you free masons when I was building my house? I had to pay every single one. The worst part is one always brought a goat.
What was that about?


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So you know that damned loudmouthed goat as well?

deputy tom
04-30-2013, 16:30
I dont usually like to get involved in threads like this, but where were all of you free masons when I was building my house? I had to pay every single one. The worst part is one always brought a goat.
What was that about?


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Operative masons charge union wage for block laying. Freemasons usually don't lay block ,we just take care of stuff like crippled children, infirmed elderly, for free you know, stuff like that. Just so you know. tom.:wavey:

Rick O'Shay
04-30-2013, 16:32
The bottom line is this:
If your community has a large number of politicking, "elitist", axxhats, then the local lodge will have plenty of them. And they will play political games within the lodge.
If, by some great chance, the entire lodge is made up of sincere, honest, trustworthy men, then the lodge will reflect that.
I was one of the unlucky ones, who joined and then saw the ugly underbelly of the "inner workings" of the lodge. No thanks.
My uncle, on the other hand, was active in his lodge for nearly 40 years, and loved it.
And he was a very discriminating man.

NOLA_glock
04-30-2013, 16:34
Dont confuse being religious with having bad information. Plenty of Masons are very religious. I am one of them.

Bad information that is believed is probably the most dangerous thing to humanity. All of us suffer because of bad information.

I agree that misinformation is dangerous, but being religious is required when one believes that the things they may be misinformed about are quite literally their specific religion's bad guy. I'm not, and I don't get it. That is all.

Please don't think I'm making inferences about religious people. I think I just made an incomplete statement, is all.
A-->B=/=B-->A
:cheers:

Al Czervik
04-30-2013, 17:13
Tom,
Yes, I know...this thread was just screaming for some levity.

: )

Rabbi...the goat choked on a glue trap. Oops.


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Ronny
04-30-2013, 17:31
al capone, and adolph hitler were altar boys. do you want to claim that they speak for the catholic church?

I don't know about Capone but for Hitler, yes he was a faithful servant of the Catholic church. It was the Pope in Rome in the 1200s that first forced Jewish to wear a yellow star identifying themselves. It was the inquisition that first began its genocidal sacrifices of Jewish and other minorities to its blood hungry Moloch God. Hitler continued long held traditional practices of the church most effectively. His obituary that ran in Spain called him a loyal son of the Catholic Church. The holocaust proper started in Spain during its civil war where people were shot for the high crime of not being Catholic. Yes, given the opportunity the church in Rome will do these things at every opportunity. The Catholic undertones of that era in Germany almost certainly also account for some of NAZIisms hatred of masonry.


These were the words used by the Spanish press on 3rd of May 1945. Hitler committed suicide 30th of April. (“Reforme”, on 21st of July 1945). All Spanish newspapers were controlled by the Spanish Fascist dictator General Franco.

“Adolf Hitler, son of the Catholic Church, died while defending Christianity. It is therefore understandable that words cannot be found to lament over his death”.

Mr Spock
04-30-2013, 17:46
He may but it is not Masonic to do so.

Anymore than Fred Phelps is the sole becon to represent Christianity. As someone in this thread said, Hitler was an alter boy but I dont judge all Catholics because of it.

If anything, the fact that the immediate response from *within* was "against" it should do well to prove the point. (as with the countless times such sentiment as I have expressed has been repeated, here and everywhere else)

I wasn't implying anything about Masonic ideals or practices. Just thought it was funny that it had been repeated at least 10 times in the thread that masons don't care, and then he comes out so judgmental against non-masons, atheists in particular.

As long as you guys don't hurt anyone and you respect others, I have no issues if you want to wear funny aprons or have secret handshakes or anything else. I'm very much a live and let live kind of person, so carry on, good sir. :)

jakebrake
04-30-2013, 17:51
what i was getting at was the bringing up of manly hall as a way to discredit freemasonry. hall wrote a book decrying the evil of freemasonry in (i think) 1927... he became a mason in 1943. so, did the evil just vanish it that time period? no...he exploited people's ignorance.

did he speak for the freemasons when he wrote his book? nope. he spoke for a love of the allmighty dollar. guess what. he got paid. his book was as based in fact as the weekly world news (google batboy)

people still believe his book. it plays on ignoance of a fraternity they don't understand, and refuse to believe isn't evil. it's kind of sad. a man can be a minister, but, still be a satan worshipper because he's a freemason.:upeyes:

manly hall spoke no more than 2 lowlives that served as altar boys spoke for the catholic church. or more than an alleged preacher speaks for the bapstist of the world.

Kent Williams
04-30-2013, 18:05
So Mote it Be !!

Ronny
04-30-2013, 18:19
what i was getting at was the bringing up of manly hall as a way to discredit freemasonry. hall wrote a book decrying the evil of freemasonry in (i think) 1927... he became a mason in 1943. so, did the evil just vanish it that time period? no...he exploited people's ignorance.

did he speak for the freemasons when he wrote his book? nope. he spoke for a love of the allmighty dollar. guess what. he got paid. his book was as based in fact as the weekly world news (google batboy)

I'm not aware that Bro Hall ever wrote a book against freemasonry. The Secret Teachings of All Ages came out in '28 or '29 and is a great work of explaining symbolism. By that time he was already working hand in hand with freemasonry's historical lodges but not initiated into craft masonry, I believe. I often listen to his lectures from streaming youtube while generally surfing the net or composing emails.

Its very easy for someone to latch onto a few sentences from an esotericist like Hall in an attempt to discredit freemasonry. But at the end of the day whatever someone writes about masonry even if its published in freemasonic journals or books it's just their opinion. The more outspoken a person is the more likely they'll mention something that's easily taken out of context or taken in context but falsely attributed to masonry as a whole than just that one person's opinion. The biggest example is Bro Pike's quote about Lucifer. If you read the book its from its 500 pages of eclectic philosophy very well thought out and how it relates to masonry, not anything about a Biblical character and so is always taken out of context but is easy to take out of context because it uses a word that's a hot button word for a lot of religious people. And at the end of the day the whole work of Morals and Dogma was just one brother's opinion anyway.

jakebrake
04-30-2013, 18:47
Its very easy for someone to latch onto a few sentences from an esotericist like Hall in an attempt to discredit freemasonry.

and folks, we have the winner.

and that latching on, has been the basis for the whole ridiculous "you worship the devil" nonsensical excrement that we have been witness to.

that, zealotry, ignorance, fear, and stubborn behavior have been on display in this thread, ad that is sad.

dalton, and anyone else who is curious, please sit down and talk to a representative in person and ask. (only because you are far less likely to hear all of the static that has crept up in this thread (although, one or two were actually kind of funny...and that was the intended desire).

if it isn't for you, no harm no foul.

Peace Warrior
04-30-2013, 18:53
You might have enjoyed the goat. Now you will never know.

BTW, are masons short people? Seems like your feet would drag while riding the goat.


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Plain and simple, I do not want to get an TOS violation. So I kept it "clean" and pure. ;)

Peace Warrior
04-30-2013, 18:54
like so many other topics, like 9/11 or pretty much any conspiracy, I once again stand in amazement how some people are wired to be wrong no matter what.

I didnt kiss a goat or ride any goat to become a mason and who ever told you that is full of crap. That is simply not what you do....and I am not going to be the one to tell you what you actually DO have to do with the goat.
You're amazed?!? :rofl:


Pot, this is kettle, kettle, this is pot. Hey you guys, this is BLACK! :whistling: :rofl: :supergrin:

Peace Warrior
04-30-2013, 18:55
I would never admit to kissing a goat or "riding" a goat either.

That's the kind of thing you take to your grave.
Precisely! :cool:


Or, is that more of an as exactly?!? Hmmmmmmmm....... :whistling: ;)

TnHawk-45
04-30-2013, 18:56
He may but it is not Masonic to do so.

Anymore than Fred Phelps is the sole becon to represent Christianity. As someone in this thread said, Hitler was an alter boy but I dont judge all Catholics because of it.

If anything, the fact that the immediate response from *within* was "against" it should do well to prove the point. (as with the countless times such sentiment as I have expressed has been repeated, here and everywhere else)

I pray for ANY athiest, and also pray for those who do not know the joy of being a Mason.

As to whether they join or not is up to them. No skin off my back one way or the other.

Peace Warrior
04-30-2013, 18:57
...
What do you suppose is the origin?

Truth maybe?!? :cool:

JackMac
04-30-2013, 19:35
To be one, ask one. Solid organization. Christian.

Frankwt
04-30-2013, 20:13
My Father and Grand Father were Masons, I never got past DeMolay, was not smart enough as a youth to continue. Anyway, for one reason or another neither Man was buried with his Masonic ring, I have both and also my Fathers handbook? Is there a proper ending for these artifacts? Since I am not a Mason I cannot wear them and really don't want them to be in a garage sale after my demise.

As far as I am concerned it is an Honorable Brotherhood and to the OP, you would be well served to look into it, Good Luck on your decision.

Mrs. VR
04-30-2013, 20:46
My Father and Grand Father were Masons, I never got past DeMolay, was not smart enough as a youth to continue. Anyway, for one reason or another neither Man was buried with his Masonic ring, I have both and also my Fathers handbook? Is there a proper ending for these artifacts? Since I am not a Mason I cannot wear them and really don't want them to be in a garage sale after my demise.

As far as I am concerned it is an Honorable Brotherhood and to the OP, you would be well served to look into it, Good Luck on your decision.

You could donate them to a local lodge, if there is no one you think you might like to pass them along to. I see them ( and OES, etc) in antique stores and estate sales all the time. I agree though, it doesn't feel right to wear it if you didn't earn it. Heck, I can only rarely talk myself into wearing my OES ring and I feel like an idiot when I do since I neve go.

Metro566
04-30-2013, 21:03
...I don't know about all of you, but I joined because I heard we got to be footsoldiers for the Illuminati! You can imagine I was disappointed to find out that's just not the truth hahaha

I'm a 7th generation Mason and I love it. Great organization and I truly love the fact that we meet "on the level". I go to lodge now with politicians, doctors, lawyers, pipefitters, plumbers, etc. We are all brothers.

Peace Warrior
05-01-2013, 02:09
Ok, maybe I do have something else. An example of one of the things we do. This one for another brother.

A Mason from NJ, call him Jerry, moved to our little corner of TN last year. 2 months ago, we got a call from the Master of his lodge, informing us that Jerry was in our area, and at the age of 37, has been diagnosed with stage 4 pancreatic cancer.

When the current Master asked Jerry what he could do to help, he was told that Jerry was here without much furniture for his new home, and some other household items. Current Master had arranged to rent a truck, acquired a load of furniture, etc. and planned to drive it to TN from NJ. He wanted help unloading the truck. My lodge put the word out and 5 of our members met the guy from NJ, helped him unload and set up the furniture.

Then, 3 weeks later, a group of more than a dozen brethren who had all served in the lodge as officers along with Jerry, came from NJ, GA, VA, SC and OH, and met again in TN, in our lodge, and presented him with some Masonic honors and a check for over $4000, to help Jerry with his medical bills.

We are brothers. We help and care for one another. We go out of our way, travelling hundreds of miles and giving freely of our time and money to help and support each other.

That charitable spirit also extends beyond the lodge walls. My lodge holds a coat drive for our lodge every year. We've donated over 1000 coats and hundreds of other articles of clothing to the local city schools Homeless Education program and Interfaith Hospitality Network in the last 3 years.

We also run a drive during which we gather and purchase stuffed animals that we give to the local chilrens advocacy agency that works with children who have been physically and sexually abused. The advocates use the animals as a bonding tool with the kids they serve. We also have fundraising dinners for other community efforts.

The Scottish Rite club in our county does a shoe drive every year, and puts new shoes on over 100 impoverished kids in our county annually.

Our lodge members who aren't Shriners still help the Shriners in our district collect donations during the annual paper sale, going on right now. Most people already know what value the Shriner's Hospitals for Children have to our country as a whole.

That's just some of what we do, for those that were asking. We aren't merely a social organization. Or we aren't supposed to be. Some lodges have degraded to that. If my lodge goes that way, I'll find another lodge.
Part of masonic beliefs has been/is grounded in the religious concept(s) of dualism, which some nowadays refer to loosely as karma; namely, if one will do a certain amount of good, it will make up for any of those things that were done incorrectly. (e.g., The bad things we all do from time to time.)

Once my Dad and I were on a trout fishing trip to Arkansas. We had some car trouble and the mechanic needed a certain part, but gave us the news that it would take at least one day and maybe even two in order to fix the vehicle. As Dad was thumbing through the phone book trying to increase our options, another patron of the service station noticed his masonic ring and stated, "I see you've done some traveling." Dad's response was, "Yes, I traveled to the East, and to the West." They then began talking like they knew each other, but they had never met. Long story short, we had the part, installed, before the mechanic went home that day.

The same type of occurrences can be said for any group of people with common interests, which is especially true of religious organizations such as the mason's. "I know a guy" that often will help people he sees hitch-hiking if their story(ies) indicates they need a "leg up" in their current situation, which includes up to the point of putting them a motel for a night or two as well as driving them into another State if he has the time. He does these kinds of things purely due to his Christian faith and corresponding worldview.

Simply put, I studied it out for myself, as I did a whole slew of others faiths when I was in the valley of decision, and The Christian Faith, based on the entire Holy Bible, but I note the actual Christian Faith and NOT just religious ideologies per se (i.e., denominationalism), is the best way to go IMHO.

On the same trip we also had assistance from another mason, whom my dad hadn't known previous, in booking motel accommodations as we missed our original reservation due to the delay involved.

G26S239
05-01-2013, 02:46
Is this real life?

Is this just fantasy?

Caught in a landslide. :supergrin: