California lawmakers weigh first statewide ban on lead ammo [Archive] - Glock Talk

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HerrGlock
04-29-2013, 02:30
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013/04/28/california-lawmakers-weigh-first-statewide-ban-on-lead-ammo/

noway
04-29-2013, 05:56
is it me, or does anybody not buy this;



400,000 pieces of lead shot per acre in wild game territory that can be eaten or washed into waterways



Man that's a lot of lead and I wonder how less than 1% of the population can generate that much lead.

RHVEtte
04-29-2013, 06:00
is it me, or does anybody not buy this;



Man that's a lot of lead and I wonder how less than 1% of the population can generate that much lead.

That's about 1100 No. 7 1/2 birdshot shells per acre. Somehow I doubt it's actually that many.

Psychman
04-29-2013, 07:08
So lead bullets dissolve in a birds gullet?

Rabid Rabbit
04-29-2013, 07:53
They must have sampled the area populated by orange skeet.

cowboywannabe
04-29-2013, 07:58
is it me, or does anybody not buy this;



Man that's a lot of lead and I wonder how less than 1% of the population can generate that much lead.

yet it was an OLD bird that died.....wheres the mass deaths of other critters?

CAcop
04-29-2013, 09:08
They have been trying to do this for years. The hunting lobby is a strong one. They are essentially trying to price hunters out of the hunting game. The only problem with that theory is that isn't not like hunters are blasting through hundreds of rounds a year.

Trying to protect the condors is stupid. They have been at the verge of extintion for years. I remember in the 70s they started pumping a lot of money into trying to rebuild the population. To be honest what is really killing them is urban sprawl. Fifty years ago there were farm fields and vacant lands between San Jose and Santa Clara. Now most people don't even know that the Valley Fair mall is sitting on the border.

fnfalman
04-29-2013, 09:33
Didn't the US Army recently gone to "green" ammo too?

As far as trying to save the California Condor...why the hell not? Better spend money on saving the condor than on stupid craps like welfare. I saw a California Condor flying about three months ago. It was a sight to behold. Not majestic like an eagle but menacing like one of those Godzilla movies flying monster. It was awe inspiring.

OctoberRust
04-29-2013, 10:58
is it me, or does anybody not buy this;



Man that's a lot of lead and I wonder how less than 1% of the population can generate that much lead.


It's all that ammo DHS has been buying up. :rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

elsolo
04-29-2013, 11:07
They try a version of this every year.
There is no science behind it, it is just another possible avenue for the anti-gun, anti-hunting, politicians from urban areas to push their ban agenda "for the condors"

Psychman
04-29-2013, 13:05
They try a version of this every year.
There is no science behind it, it is just another possible avenue for the anti-gun, anti-hunting, politicians from urban areas to push their ban agenda "for the condors"

Yup. But since when did actual factual information or science stop them from trying to pass all kinds of dumb legislation? The unfortunate part about all this is that there are millions of people out there who believe this load of crap whether it is lead from bullets poisoning condors or limiting magazine capacity and banning certain guns will save lives.

SunsetMan
04-29-2013, 13:16
They try a version of this every year.
There is no science behind it, it is just another possible avenue for the anti-gun, anti-hunting, politicians from urban areas to push their ban agenda "for the condors"

I read on Calguns that this is tried every year.

I think all politicians should only go to work 2 weeks out of the year to come up with a budget and then go home with a full year's pay. I think we would be way ahead that way.

FLIPPER 348
04-29-2013, 13:21
They try a version of this every year.
There is no science behind it, it is just another possible avenue for the anti-gun, anti-hunting, politicians from urban areas to push their ban agenda "for the condors"



There is 'no science behind it' because it is not what you want to hear. Gut piles with lead are the problem and it is easily solved with solid copper bullets. This link has some good firing range footage/testing showing the difference between lead bullets & copper.


http://watch.opb.org/video/2302231466/

elsolo
04-29-2013, 13:57
There is 'no science behind it' because it is not what you want to hear. Gut piles with lead are the problem and it is easily solved with solid copper bullets. This link has some good firing range footage/testing showing the difference between lead bullets & copper.


http://watch.opb.org/video/2302231466/

They already mandated non-lead bullets for hunting years ago, didn't help.

This is about banning virtually all shooting.

FLIPPER 348
04-29-2013, 16:01
Only if you are paranoid

teumessian_fox
04-29-2013, 16:05
I used to shoot trap at a gun club in Turlock, CA. We shot into and over a pasture where cattle grazed. The lead pellets fell into the pasture. The cattle grazed in that pasture.

I often wondered about that.

HerrGlock
04-29-2013, 16:09
I used to shoot trap at a gun club in Turlock, CA. We shot into and over a pasture where cattle grazed. The lead pellets fell into the pasture. The cattle grazed in that pasture.

I often wondered about that.

You've heard about Mad Cow Disease? Well, you're the origin of it :tongueout:

GlocknSpiehl
04-29-2013, 16:34
So, if they ban all that ammo, what will the CA cops use in the firearms?

elsolo
04-29-2013, 16:49
Only if you are paranoid

Well, they already banned lead bullets in condor territory for hunting game.

If you buy into the gut pile consumption theory, in combination with the effectiveness of banning certain ammo (which they did), then they should have stopped eating lead contaminated gut piles already.

Somehow it didn't have the intended effect.
Now they want to ban all lead ammo, everywhere.
Explain how that will be more effective.
Are poachers suddenly going to stop breaking more laws?

They hate hunting here.
They fired the head of fish and game for going hunting in Idaho, legally. They recently changed the name from fish and game to "wildlife and conservation", and the same politicians try several ammo ban avenues every year; but you are probably right, CA politicians don't want to ban guns or ammo, we are paranoid, it's all about saving the condor.

AZ Jeff
04-30-2013, 12:15
There is 'no science behind it' because it is not what you want to hear. Gut piles with lead are the problem and it is easily solved with solid copper bullets. This link has some good firing range footage/testing showing the difference between lead bullets & copper.


http://watch.opb.org/video/2302231466/

I refuse to believe that lead projectiles are a serious concern for carrion feeders.

For waterfowl, the issue is real, because they feed off the bottom of the marsh, and in the process of ingesting the soft greens on the bottom, waterfowl ingest lead pellets, which are ground up in their gizzard.

For carrion feeders, the ingestion process is different: they must actually ingest the piece of projectile in a mouthful of carrion, and that piece must contain lead (not just copper jacket.) The percentage of a "pile of carrion" that will contain a projectile is small, so the odds of any given mouthful containing lead is small.

Furthermore, since MANY projectiles tend to pass through the game when shot, the actual chances of a given pile of carrion containing lead is small to begin with.

Additionally, birds are not the only carrion feeders. There are plenty of insects and mammals that will take a free meal from a pile of carrion, and thus those animals reduce the chances of a carrion bird ingesting the lead, assuming the projectile actually stayed in the dead animal.

Add to this the following--what percentage of carrion is actually created by hunting? There are PLENTY of natural deaths creating carrion that would lack the lead, and I suspect that percentage is MUCH higher than those animals take by hunters.

In a nutshell, this whole lead ingestion by carrion feeders is a smokescreen by the leftists to increase the cost of hunting (and shooting) to lessen the appeal of the sport.

G36's Rule
04-30-2013, 12:28
I refuse to believe that lead projectiles are a serious concern for carrion feeders.

For waterfowl, the issue is real, because they feed off the bottom of the marsh, and in the process of ingesting the soft greens on the bottom, waterfowl ingest lead pellets, which are ground up in their gizzard.

For carrion feeders, the ingestion process is different: they must actually ingest the piece of projectile in a mouthful of carrion, and that piece must contain lead (not just copper jacket.) The percentage of a "pile of carrion" that will contain a projectile is small, so the odds of any given mouthful containing lead is small.

Furthermore, since MANY projectiles tend to pass through the game when shot, the actual chances of a given pile of carrion containing lead is small to begin with.

Additionally, birds are not the only carrion feeders. There are plenty of insects and mammals that will take a free meal from a pile of carrion, and thus those animals reduce the chances of a carrion bird ingesting the lead, assuming the projectile actually stayed in the dead animal.

Add to this the following--what percentage of carrion is actually created by hunting? There are PLENTY of natural deaths creating carrion that would lack the lead, and I suspect that percentage is MUCH higher than those animals take by hunters.

In a nutshell, this whole lead ingestion by carrion feeders is a smokescreen by the leftists to increase the cost of hunting (and shooting) to lessen the appeal of the sport.

Not trying to be an ass, but the lead shot/waterfowl controversy isn't much different than the Condor issue here.

Both are steps toward restrictions with little science behind them. And don't forget, lead shot is still being used for hunting waterfowl in the winter nesting areas of Mexico and South America.

Glock20 10mm
04-30-2013, 12:59
Well I have a bird they can watch...

Psychman
04-30-2013, 13:08
I asked the question earlier in this thread. Is lead really ground up in the gizzard to the point that it enters the blood stream? Or is most of it simply excreted?

FLIPPER 348
04-30-2013, 13:43
I refuse to believe that lead projectiles are a serious concern for carrion feeders.
The percentage of a "pile of carrion" that will contain a projectile is small, so the odds of any given mouthful containing lead is small

In a nutshell, this whole lead ingestion by carrion feeders is a smokescreen


Is your opinion based on any professional knowledge or research ......or how you feel about the subject??

Rabid Rabbit
04-30-2013, 14:04
Is your opinion based on any professional knowledge or research ......or how you feel about the subject??

How about some simple observation. Through natural death and hits by autos I'd be pretty safe in saying the number of animals shot and left in the field is very very tinsy tiny small percentage. I have a hard time believing that shot and lost game accounts for any appreciable amount of a condors diet.

BobbyS
04-30-2013, 15:53
Where does lead come from in the first place?

FLIPPER 348
04-30-2013, 20:07
How about some simple observation. Through natural death and hits by autos I'd be pretty safe in saying the number of animals shot and left in the field is very very tinsy tiny small percentage. I have a hard time believing that shot and lost game accounts for any appreciable amount of a condors diet.



It's the gut piles. !0 minutes of viewing the link I provided is quite educational and there is some good gun range & bullet expansion/fragmenting testing.

AZ Jeff
05-01-2013, 15:21
Is your opinion based on any professional knowledge or research ......or how you feel about the subject??

It's based on my knowledge (first hand and otherwise) on how protectiles behave when striking big game. They OFTEN exit the carcass completely, leaving little lead inside the animal. If anything is left inside, it tends to be bullet jacket fragments, which are COPPER!

If the majority of the projectile is not in the animal, how is the scavenger going to ingest the lead?

Roering
05-01-2013, 15:38
This is going to put a damper in my annual CA Condor hunt.:wavey: