Elementary principals will be able to paddle misbehaving students [Archive] - Glock Talk

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HerrGlock
04-30-2013, 09:44
http://www.clickorlando.com/news/marion-county-schools-bring-back-paddling-as-form-of-punishment/-/1637132/19872278/-/91ra5nz/-/index.html

Dalton Wayne
04-30-2013, 09:47
That's my county and I'm all for it time to tan some behinds kids today are not like when I was in school and we got our arses beat when we got out of line, corporal punishment me thinks some of these miscreants need capitol punishment.......:cool:

fgutie35
04-30-2013, 09:54
The middle school I work for already does. My School District's policy leaves it as an option for the different campuses. Trust me, parents would rather have their kid swated than have them at home. Of course my principal has the consent of the parent, and they are welcome to be present. There are two witnesses and one of them is usually the campus cop who is a city LE. I have served as a witness when they think the kid might try to do something stupid (for principal's safety), and is weird to see the girls not even flintch, but the boys making a huge drama crying and screaming like little pigs.:supergrin:

Kevinr20
04-30-2013, 09:59
I don't have kids but i don't think I'd want strangers paddling my kid.

But then again maybe it would make them think twice about acting up out of the parents sight.

badge315
04-30-2013, 10:00
How ironic that it is deemed acceptable by some to paddle a child, but if you took that exact same piece of wood and struck an adult with it, they'd be legally justified in shooting you. :upeyes:

With the way that school officials overreact to any trivial violation as of late, I'll be damned if I'd let one lay hands on my kid; I say leave the physical discipline to the parents.

BEER
04-30-2013, 10:09
authority figures with paddles belong in the bedroom, not in schools.

NorthCarolinaLiberty
04-30-2013, 10:11
You mean to tell me that the police's--uh, I mean "school resource officer's"--tazings are not getting the job done?

Joshhtn
04-30-2013, 10:13
I don't have kids, but if I did, and someone (besides myself) paddled them... I'd break that someone's neck.

teumessian_fox
04-30-2013, 10:16
I don't have kids but i don't think I'd want strangers paddling my kid.


Then parents like you should just keep your kids home.

Incompetent parents dump their brats on the school system for a day. Said parents don't discipline the kids at home, and refuse to allow the schools to maintain order.

That's just one of the many reasons that public education in America is an international joke.

Kevinr20
04-30-2013, 10:44
I'm not a parent, jackwagon. And if i did have kids, you can be sure they'd be disciplined at home.

And if i have the resources when i have kids, they'll be home schooled or in private school. Public schools are a joke.

glockrod
04-30-2013, 10:46
I am all for paddling.

I have kids in school and support having their tail lit up if needed.

Your kids may not need it. They may get it at home as needed, BUT the vast majority of kids needing the paddle have absolutely no fear or respect of anything. All this stems from a total lack of discipline.

My wife is a 2nd grade teacher in a mostly minority and very socio-economic deprived area. These kids likely are beaten regularly at home, but never disciplined for behavior at home or at school. Therefore, at school, they know they have a pass for being as disruptive as possible to the learning process for the other 50-90% of kids that actually will behave.

Discipline is based on respect. This respect comes from fear of the punishment which eventually modifies behavior.

My wife's class has kids that have no fear. As a society, how can we possibly expect success(or anything greater than failure)from someone with nothing left to lose and has no respect for anyone or anything.

If you don't like paddling, maybe you should consider the overall effect of not paddling. I will guarantee that public education would be better with paddling.

Even still, allowing paddling is just a start to actually allow kids a chance at a better education. There are so many other factors to be considered - poor quality teachers(we aren't union in my state, but unions seem to breed this problem), teaching to tests and not actually teaching kids, too many kids per teacher, making parents accountable, and I could go on.

6StringGeek
04-30-2013, 10:52
I got the paddle in HS a few times...needed them. I would thank the principal today if he was still alive.

OctoberRust
04-30-2013, 11:03
can this do this at my local community college? I'd enroll in a heart beat.... As long as the teachers were hawt. :supergrin:

badge315
04-30-2013, 11:21
If you don't like paddling, maybe you should consider the overall effect of not paddling. I will guarantee that public education would be better with paddling.

Perhaps you could produce some evidence to support that assertion. Is corporal punishment utilized in the school systems of countries that exceed the educational achievements of the American scholastic system?

Even still, allowing paddling is just a start to actually allow kids a chance at a better education. There are so many other factors to be considered - poor quality teachers(we aren't union in my state, but unions seem to breed this problem), teaching to tests and not actually teaching kids, too many kids per teacher, making parents accountable, and I could go on.

No disagreement there. :wavey:

teumessian_fox
04-30-2013, 11:29
I'm not a parent, jackwagon. And if i did have kids, you can be sure they'd be disciplined at home.

And if i have the resources when i have kids, they'll be home schooled or in private school. Public schools are a joke.

First, stow the personal insults. You're demonstrating yourself to be too immature to raise kids in the first place.

Second, if children misbehave while at home, then definitely should be disciplined at home. But if they misbehave out of the home, don't expect everybody to turn a blind eye to your little darling's psychosis.

Third, I agree. If you ever have kids (and trust me, we're all hoping you don't), the world at large will thank you for homeschooling them. No sense in spreading the misery.

Finally, yes, public education is a joke. The punch line is that teachers are forbidden from solving the problems. Problem students should be whipped for misbehaving. The law doesn't allow that, so these future convicts can act anyway they choose. Meanwhile, the teacher, school resources, etc, have to spend time and money attending to animals, while promising students are cheated of education.

certifiedfunds
04-30-2013, 11:33
No adult state employee can strike my child without my consent. End of story.

They need their ass beaten? Call me. I'll either let you do it or I'll come over and do it or I'll determine that you're wrong.

Russ in PA
04-30-2013, 11:39
I got paddled once in junior high, didn't hurt me any. The principal had a "paddle" that was a cut-down goalie's hockey-stick, if ya can picture that. He could have inflicted some serious pain if he swung it hard...which he didn't at all.

teumessian_fox
04-30-2013, 11:55
He could have inflicted some serious pain if he swung it hard...which he didn't at all.

I got into a fistfight with Charlie C in jr high. I won but we got caught and were sent to the principal's office for our (deserved and we knew it) whipping.

In front of the principal's office Charlie sucker punched me just as the principal came around the corner.

I got three relatively mild licks.

The principal literally lifted Charlie off the floor.

We never fought again.

bikerdog
04-30-2013, 12:10
I've got mixed feelings on this one. I went to a Catholic school. And the nuns there were allowed to strait up beat you for getting out of line. And they did to me several times. But I am good with that. My issue comes in nowadays. These schools are disciplining kids for playing cowboys and Indians. That ain't the same in my book as what I got in trouble for in school. If the kid is being a brat I am all for tanning his ass. I just don't think I trust the teachers to make that determination anymore.

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bikerdog
04-30-2013, 12:21
After just reading through the whole thing a second time. They need to have the parents written consent. And before they paddle the kid they need to call the parent and explain why. Then ask the parent for permission. In that case I think this is great. Because the parent has final say.

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Reyn
04-30-2013, 12:32
or I'll determine that you're wrong.

Not implying you would but a lot of parents in my experience will always find fault with the administration as opposed to their child.

aspartz
04-30-2013, 12:36
This would never fly in MN. The liberals are all bent here because the statistics show that a student of color (in "person first" speak) is much more likely to get disciplined than any other kids. The claims that this is a bias in the system, and has nothing to do with the kids behavior. Imagine the uproar if the kids got paddled!!!

ARS

ateamer
04-30-2013, 13:00
Ironic that people on a site largely inhabited by people longing for the good old days are against teachers paddling misbehaving students.

BobbyS
04-30-2013, 13:13
Ironic that people on a site largely inhabited by people longing for the good old days are against teachers paddling misbehaving students.


Yep, teaching kids to disrespect any and everyone, starts right at home!

OhioGlock90
04-30-2013, 13:19
If I had kids I would NEVER let someone else do that to them. If I decided to paddle them at home then so be it but that is my decision to make and no one else's! When I was a kid having my parents called was more of a threat to me than dealing with administrators at school. I stayed in line at school because I knew it would get back to my parents if I didn't and I didn't want to deal with them. The same will be for my kids.


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SC Tiger
04-30-2013, 13:23
Sounds like this power is only with the principal, which is a good thing. If the teachers there are like the ones I had in elementary school I don't know if I want one of them paddling my kid.

There also seem to be a lot of restrictions on it.

I spank my son if he acts out but I don't know that I like the use of a paddle. Of course, a bare hand to the backside has it's own issues if it isn't your kid.

Paul7
04-30-2013, 13:55
:thumbsup:

We had that when I was a kid, it was called the "Board of Education" and the "Seat of All Understanding".

Paul7
04-30-2013, 13:56
This would never fly in MN. The liberals are all bent here because the statistics show that a student of color (in "person first" speak) is much more likely to get disciplined than any other kids.

Clearly racism at work.

/Sarcasm off

On a related note, 97% of murderers and victims in NYC are black or latino.

teumessian_fox
04-30-2013, 14:30
Ironic that people on a site largely inhabited by people longing for the good old days are against teachers paddling misbehaving students.

Any time I think about the "good old days" I go home in summer and turn off the air conditioning.

SevenSixtyTwo
04-30-2013, 17:36
This would never fly in MN. The liberals are all bent here because the statistics show that a student of color (in "person first" speak) is much more likely to get disciplined than any other kids. The claims that this is a bias in the system, and has nothing to do with the kids behavior. Imagine the uproar if the kids got paddled!!!

ARS

This is exactly what happened in Sarasota in '72 when bussing started. Before, we got disciplined if we disrupted class with unacceptable behavior. After, "you ain't fiddin to whip my child or I'ma come down there and go off on yo ***". All discipline came to a screeching halt and behavior went to sheet. I was there and watched the transformation. Nothing wrong with making kids behave. If you teach your kids to behave and show respect for others at home, you won't have to worry about them getting the paddle at school.

DanaT
04-30-2013, 17:41
Perhaps you could produce some evidence to support that assertion. Is corporal punishment utilized in the school systems of countries that exceed the educational achievements of the American scholastic system?


The opposite is true.

The US school system is not highly ranked compared to European countries

Kentucky Shooter
04-30-2013, 17:42
Funny how quick many are to bash the public school system for all its problems including out of control kids and discipline problems but are quick to say when the topic of holding these little turds accountable for their behavior that they would not want anyone "to lay a hand on my kid"

I have found that there are many people out there who want tough ass discipline--- as long as its for someone else's kid

soutthpaw
04-30-2013, 18:09
The problem that I see is still it will be overused and/or misused. Also if my kids (both in elem school BTW) get in trouble to where a teacher/staff feels paddling is in order I better get a phone call immediately and I will be in the principal's office in 15 mins.
Here is the crux of the issue. Many parents don't give a sh1t and don't parent their own kids... Its a whole barrel of problem that need addressing. More likely than not, its the parent that needs paddling and disiplining more than the child!
I got rulers across my hand in elem school by one teacher several times a week. Other years and teachers didn't need to do that. So what does that say? Too bad I was already an adult when I was diagnosed with Asperger's. So basically I got beat cuz I was different and couldn't adapt well enough to fit in to her classroom standards.. I used to run away from school all the time too.. Yeah, the school had the paddle too.
Thus I refer back to my first sentence...
If punishment works why are our prisons full of repeat offenders?

sierrafast
04-30-2013, 18:25
This issue is now a double edge sword with all this PC bull****. Corporal punishment worked for me growing up.

Kawabuggy
04-30-2013, 18:33
Absolutely LOVE IT! I think all principles should have the legal right to do this. The parents SHOULD NOT be able to stop this from happening.

Let me go out on a limb here and say that those parents who are opposed to this, are the same parents who are raising "I own the world" little brats who fear no one, and have no respect for any adult because they have never been paddled.

If my child is acting out in school-paddle him! Don't call me. Don't ask my permission-whoop him good! You know why I don't mind? Because if the principle does not do it, I will when he gets home! That's why!

It used to be difficult for me to understand how people could be so divided politically, but subjects like this make it so very clear.

If your child is not misbehaving, then you have nothing to fear. If your child is misbehaving, & you are not willing or not capable of resolving your childs' issues yourself, someone has to do it and the principle is the perfect person. You can look at it this way, it's either going to be YOU, the principle, or the warden of the local state prison.. If you can't find it within yourself to do it.. Then the job automatically passes on to one of the other two.

What's worse is that some parents failure to properly raise their own kids DOES negatively affect other kids who are in school trying to do their best to learn.

I love hearing "my child does not need a beating" and we all know these are the very kids that need the snot knocked out them more than anyone else in the room. Well, maybe they need it equally as much as the parents who raised them do.

certifiedfunds
04-30-2013, 18:40
Absolutely LOVE IT! I think all principles should have the legal right to do this. The parents SHOULD NOT be able to stop this from happening.

Let me go out on a limb here and say that those parents who are opposed to this, are the same parents who are raising "I own the world" little brats who fear no one, and have no respect for any adult because they have never been paddled.

If my child is acting out in school-paddle him! Don't call me. Don't ask my permission-whoop him good! You know why I don't mind? Because if the principle does not do it, I will when he gets home! That's why!

It used to be difficult for me to understand how people could be so divided politically, but subjects like this make it so very clear.

If your child is not misbehaving, then you have nothing to fear. If your child is misbehaving, & you are not willing or not capable of resolving your childs' issues yourself, someone has to do it and the principle is the perfect person. You can look at it this way, it's either going to be YOU, the principle, or the warden of the local state prison.. If you can't find it within yourself to do it.. Then the job automatically passes on to one of the other two.

What's worse is that some parents failure to properly raise their own kids DOES negatively affect other kids who are in school trying to do their best to learn.

I love hearing "my child does not need a beating" and we all know these are the very kids that need the snot knocked out them more than anyone else in the room. Well, maybe they need it equally as much as the parents who raised them do.

You're a sick individual


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Joshhtn
04-30-2013, 18:44
Absolutely LOVE IT! I think all principles should have the legal right to do this. The parents SHOULD NOT be able to stop this from happening.

Let me go out on a limb here and say that those parents who are opposed to this, are the same parents who are raising "I own the world" little brats who fear no one, and have no respect for any adult because they have never been paddled.

If my child is acting out in school-paddle him! Don't call me. Don't ask my permission-whoop him good! You know why I don't mind? Because if the principle does not do it, I will when he gets home! That's why!

It used to be difficult for me to understand how people could be so divided politically, but subjects like this make it so very clear.

If your child is not misbehaving, then you have nothing to fear. If your child is misbehaving, & you are not willing or not capable of resolving your childs' issues yourself, someone has to do it and the principle is the perfect person. You can look at it this way, it's either going to be YOU, the principle, or the warden of the local state prison.. If you can't find it within yourself to do it.. Then the job automatically passes on to one of the other two.

What's worse is that some parents failure to properly raise their own kids DOES negatively affect other kids who are in school trying to do their best to learn.

I love hearing "my child does not need a beating" and we all know these are the very kids that need the snot knocked out them more than anyone else in the room. Well, maybe they need it equally as much as the parents who raised them do.

Wow:shocked:... Beat your kids much?

certifiedfunds
04-30-2013, 18:45
Ironic that people on a site largely inhabited by people longing for the good old days are against teachers paddling misbehaving students.

I have no problem with that but its done with my permission or it doesn't happen. Teacher, principle hit my child without my permission they'll deal with this adult in the parking lot when they leave and/or assault charges.

They're MY kids, not the state's.


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Kentucky Shooter
04-30-2013, 18:54
I have no problem with that but its done with my permission or it doesn't happen. Teacher, principle hit my child without my permission they'll deal with this adult in the parking lot when they leave and/or assault charges.

They're MY kids, not the state's.

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:rofl: what will it take to earn yours or for that matter, any parents "permission"? Your kids may be angels-- I hope they are. But in most cases, the people who most need to support more discipline for their kids think their brat does no wrong. They blame the problem on everything else.

Hopefully its unintentional, but I fear the mentality you describe at least partly explains why not only our school system but our country is going down the crapper.

I honestly think none of the people who have their panties in a wad over this have anything to fear. No public school system is going to be doing much paddling in 2013 America. It is too politically incorrect and there is too much liability involved.


However, before we wring our hands and complain, and ask ourselves "why dont they do something?" we need to remember the handcuffs we have put on the schools when we hear of the bullying, drugs, shootings, and other crap going on today.

Bradhazz
04-30-2013, 19:32
I'm the youngest of five kids, not once in the 30 plus years they raised kids did my parents ever hit any of us. I'm not saying some kids don't need a spanking it's just not for everyone. I would not let someone physically discipline my son, that's my job. My older brother got spanked by a teacher in front of the class (not sure what he did wrong), my dad found out after school. He went up and pulled the teacher across the desk clearing it as did so making it clear his kids were not to be touched again. He also attended the school board meeting that week informed them (small town everyone already knew)of the incident and told them the same thing no one at the school has the right to touch his kids.

Fast forward 5 years my brother is now in junior high and got detention for something two days after school. No big deal he was telling my parents about it at dinner, and told them how at detention ur locked in a room from the outside and no teacher is there. My dad was upset to say the least and at the time was the chief of the fire department and acting fire marshal for the area. He called the school the next day and informed them about fire codes and told them its not acceptable. They told him they would basically do what the want. He called The local media outlets and told them if they wanted a story to meet him at the high school at 3:30 for a fire code inspection and any room locked from the outside with kids in it the door was going to be opened via fire axe. Him and his deputy chief took a truck down there and both grabbed axes as they went into the building. Principle met them at the entrance and thought they were joking for a second and soon realized when he saw the reporters it was no joke. He quickly made sure all doors were unlocked and all locks from the outside were removed that week. Now I'm not telling these memories to make my father sounds like a bad ***, more to inform that schools and teachers and principles do not always have the best intentions for our children.

Kentucky Shooter
04-30-2013, 19:42
Another thing-- Paddling was basically outlawed 25+ years ago. At least riddled with so many restrictions that it became too cumbersome to even mess with it. So we went to more warm and fuzzy types of discipline that the PC liberal crowd would support.

Fast forward to today-- now the same type of thinking that outlawed corporal punishment is fighting against what few tools the schools have left.


The people and general mentality against corporal punishment 25 years ago are also as equally pissed off today about horrible miscarriages of justice such as:


After school detention
Time out
In school suspension
Making their kid sit out of recess
Suspending their kid from the school bus
Out of school suspension
Giving their kid a dirty look
Or basically crossing their kid in any shape, form, or fashion


IS THERE ANY WONDER OUR SCHOOLS AND COUNTRY IS IN THE SHAPE IT IS IN??? I'm not so excited and fired up to see anyone's kid including mine whipped. Those who are taught discipline at home rarely need it. BUT make no mistake-- the world is full of people who will stand for NO type of discipline for their kid, from themselves or from anyone else.

chickenwing
04-30-2013, 19:53
This thread is full of fail.

You can't hit an adult outside of self-defense, but a kid sure why not. And to top it off, not only can parents hit their kids, but are all for some bureaucrat doing it for them.

Violence and handing off personal responsibility to the state are always the best way to solve problems. /S

certifiedfunds
04-30-2013, 20:10
:rofl: what will it take to earn yours or for that matter, any parents "permission"?

Requesting it.

A phone call to explain the circumstances and the recommended disciplinary action. I may or may not grant it, depending on the level of trust I place in the principal or disciplinarian at the school, I may choose to enforce it myself or I may choose an alternative.

My children are my children, not yours or the state's.

ICARRY2
04-30-2013, 20:14
Then parents like you should just keep your kids home.

Incompetent parents dump their brats on the school system for a day. Said parents don't discipline the kids at home, and refuse to allow the schools to maintain order.

That's just one of the many reasons that public education in America is an international joke.

Amen!

certifiedfunds
04-30-2013, 20:14
I'm the youngest of five kids, not once in the 30 plus years they raised kids did my parents ever hit any of us. I'm not saying some kids don't need a spanking it's just not for everyone. I would not let someone physically discipline my son, that's my job. My older brother got spanked by a teacher in front of the class (not sure what he did wrong), my dad found out after school. He went up and pulled the teacher across the desk clearing it as did so making it clear his kids were not to be touched again. He also attended the school board meeting that week informed them (small town everyone already knew)of the incident and told them the same thing no one at the school has the right to touch his kids.

Fast forward 5 years my brother is now in junior high and got detention for something two days after school. No big deal he was telling my parents about it at dinner, and told them how at detention ur locked in a room from the outside and no teacher is there. My dad was upset to say the least and at the time was the chief of the fire department and acting fire marshal for the area. He called the school the next day and informed them about fire codes and told them its not acceptable. They told him they would basically do what the want. He called The local media outlets and told them if they wanted a story to meet him at the high school at 3:30 for a fire code inspection and any room locked from the outside with kids in it the door was going to be opened via fire axe. Him and his deputy chief took a truck down there and both grabbed axes as they went into the building. Principle met them at the entrance and thought they were joking for a second and soon realized when he saw the reporters it was no joke. He quickly made sure all doors were unlocked and all locks from the outside were removed that week. Now I'm not telling these memories to make my father sounds like a bad ***, more to inform that schools and teachers and principles do not always have the best intentions for our children.

Good for your dad. Some jackass principal can't imprison kids either.

Kentucky Shooter
04-30-2013, 20:15
Requesting it.

A phone call to explain the circumstances and the recommended disciplinary action. I may or may not grant it, depending on the level of trust I place in the principal or disciplinarian at the school, I may choose to enforce it myself or I may choose an alternative.

My children are my children, not yours or the state's.

I totally respect that-- as long as the parent who refuses the discipline also respects the right of the school to suspend or expel their child if they continue to act as though no rules apply to them.

ICARRY2
04-30-2013, 20:16
Absolutely LOVE IT! I think all principles should have the legal right to do this. The parents SHOULD NOT be able to stop this from happening.

Let me go out on a limb here and say that those parents who are opposed to this, are the same parents who are raising "I own the world" little brats who fear no one, and have no respect for any adult because they have never been paddled.

If my child is acting out in school-paddle him! Don't call me. Don't ask my permission-whoop him good! You know why I don't mind? Because if the principle does not do it, I will when he gets home! That's why!

It used to be difficult for me to understand how people could be so divided politically, but subjects like this make it so very clear.

If your child is not misbehaving, then you have nothing to fear. If your child is misbehaving, & you are not willing or not capable of resolving your childs' issues yourself, someone has to do it and the principle is the perfect person. You can look at it this way, it's either going to be YOU, the principle, or the warden of the local state prison.. If you can't find it within yourself to do it.. Then the job automatically passes on to one of the other two.

What's worse is that some parents failure to properly raise their own kids DOES negatively affect other kids who are in school trying to do their best to learn.

I love hearing "my child does not need a beating" and we all know these are the very kids that need the snot knocked out them more than anyone else in the room. Well, maybe they need it equally as much as the parents who raised them do.

Amen!

certifiedfunds
04-30-2013, 20:18
Not implying you would but a lot of parents in my experience will always find fault with the administration as opposed to their child.

When I was in elementary school, we got sent home with a corporal punishment permission form. We had to return it either way, yes or no.

My parents agreed. The knew the principal well. Knew him to be a quality man of integrity and trusted him to make the right and fair decision if they could not be reached.

In high school, the brothers required it as a condition of enrollment. I don't ever remember it happening though.

certifiedfunds
04-30-2013, 20:19
I totally respect that-- as long as the parent who refuses the discipline also respects the right of the school to suspend or expel their child if they continue to act as though no rules apply to them.

Oh, absolutely. Get them the hell out.

Kentucky Shooter
04-30-2013, 20:20
Oh, absolutely. Get them the hell out.

Finally some common ground--Now we are in agreement!!

ICARRY2
04-30-2013, 20:26
Didn't realize how many namby pambys were on GT. :rolleyes:


Corporal punishment ( a quick swat to the rear) was common place many decades ago and kids were much much better behaved and did better in school.

Lakerdude
04-30-2013, 20:40
"""""

gjk5
04-30-2013, 20:47
I don't have kids but i don't think I'd want strangers paddling my kid.

But then again maybe it would make them think twice about acting up out of the parents sight.

If you were a good parent your child's prinicpal would not be a stranger.

I don't have kids, but if I did, and someone (besides myself) paddled them... I'd break that someone's neck.

you would probably have crappy kids.

Ironic that people on a site largely inhabited by people longing for the good old days are against teachers paddling misbehaving students.

no doubt. I was raised that any legitimate authority figure could bust ass on me, I had (and have) respect.

When I got spanked at school, I got spanked again at home.

gjk5
04-30-2013, 20:49
Didn't realize how many namby pambys were on GT. :rolleyes:


Corporal punishment ( a quick swat to the rear) was common place many decades ago and kids were much much better behaved and did better in school.

Yep, we do not spend any significant amount of time with other families unless we are on the same page that all are allowed to discipline each other's kids as we see fit if necessary. I would not have it any other way.

Lakerdude
04-30-2013, 20:49
"""""

sputnik767
04-30-2013, 20:50
I don't have children. Having said that, if parents choose to use corporal punishment for their kids, it is their right, as long as it's mild, leaves no marks, and certainly causes no damage. It is a very fine line between corporal punishment and child abuse. The state however has no right to use physical force to discipline children.

I'll leave my personal opinion on parents who hit their kids out of this discussion, except to say that I've never been hit as a child and I gave my parents no trouble growing up. Same goes for all of my siblings.

Lakerdude
04-30-2013, 20:52
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stevelyn
04-30-2013, 20:53
It's about damm time someone has realized that the circuit between the arse and brain needs closing sometimes.

sputnik767
04-30-2013, 20:59
There is no fine line between reasonable punishment and abuse. As long as it is truly punishment, well earned, I have no problem with a good swat with an old wood raquetball paddle (After the obligatory explanation to the kid - this is how you screwed up, and this is the consequences of that screwup. Now don't do it again.) Bend over ... WHACK!

Circuit closed!

Like I said, fine line between a swat on the butt for a major transgression that leaves no marks, and beating the kid with a belt for every minor offense. And don't tell me that latter doesn't happen under the guise of corporal punishment.

Lakerdude
04-30-2013, 21:15
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certifiedfunds
04-30-2013, 21:16
Nobody here condones or even mentioned a belt.

People who never were a discipline problem can't relate to their kids behaving like a monster, and the person in charge having no tools available to get the attention of and to modify the behavior of that child.

You have to have been there to understand it. The system being talked about requires the parents to consent to the paddling. So it's not even an issue of the kids being hit without the parents' knowledge and consent.

So you seem to have the answers to this issue - what is the teacher to do when the kid stares back at the teacher and says, NO, throws all of their study materials on the floor, and cause a big scene in the classroom? How exactly are you going to get that kid to pay attention and stop interrupting the education of the other students in the class? Sending the kid home won't accomplish that goal, since the kid really wanted to be out of class, so they won. That will reinforce the bad behavior, and the kid will act out again and again. What do you suggest to modify that kid's behavior?

Kick the little bastard out

sputnik767
04-30-2013, 21:22
Nobody here condones or even mentioned a belt.

People who never were a discipline problem can't relate to their kids behaving like a monster, and the person in charge having no tools available to get the attention of and to modify the behavior of that child.

You have to have been there to understand it. The system being talked about requires the parents to consent to the paddling. So it's not even an issue of the kids being hit without the parents' knowledge and consent.

So you seem to have the answers to this issue - what is the teacher to do when the kid stares back at the teacher and says, NO, throws all of their study materials on the floor, and cause a big scene in the classroom? How exactly are you going to get that kid to pay attention and stop interrupting the education of the other students in the class? Sending the kid home won't accomplish that goal, since the kid really wanted to be out of class, so they won. That will reinforce the bad behavior, and the kid will act out again and again. What do you suggest to modify that kid's behavior?

I never once said I have the solution to the problem you described, nor am I tasked with finding one. Nor did I imply that anyone here condones using a belt or anything like it, I just said that there is a fine line between corporal punishment and child abuse.

As far as the problem you presented, for every misbehaving kid that will respond positively to paddling, I bet I could find you 3 that will act out even more, or even hit the teacher back. Let's not pretend that paddling is the end-all solution to the current problems of society. And most importantly, let's not pretend that schools in the "good old days" where kids were paddled were bastions of discipline and unicorns were farting rainbows and glitter over every classroom.

Parental consent or not is irrelevant. Parents who consent to have their kids paddles either do it themselves at home or just don't give a damn. Needless to say, some of the kids are still misbehaving, and if the parents don't give a damn, I guarantee you paddling isn't going to set the kid straight. Teachers are supposed to teach.

Having said all that, I just got off of a month-long pediatrics rotation at an inner-city hospital that serves the low-income community. I saw a lot of children every day and the overwhelming majority of the parents were very good people who truly cared about their children. Likewise, the overwhelming majority of children were well-behaved. The "good old days" were not nearly as good as some of the people here claim, and the modern times are not nearly as bad.

Lakerdude
04-30-2013, 21:24
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Lakerdude
04-30-2013, 21:25
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ICARRY2
04-30-2013, 21:43
Kick the little bastard out

I agree.

But SCOTUS ruled that students have a right to a free and meaningful education.

Enter the lawyers, due process....

Good luck on that expulsion thing. :D

sputnik767
04-30-2013, 21:47
I would also like to add that some of the kids who misbehave have legitimate psychiatric problems. I personally know of two such kids and my psychiatry rotation at an inpatient mental hospital had a lot of pediatric and adolescent exposure. I'm not just talking about ADHD either. You're not going to set those kids straight by hitting them and many of them will hit you back.

NorthCarolinaLiberty
04-30-2013, 21:54
One time my 13 year old brother turns on my dad. Probably not a paddling situation, but can't remember. More likely some good fistfighting. Anyway, guess my brother had enough. He was big for his age and really laid into my dad. My dad falls on the basement floor. Well, he knew his ass was already kicked, so he had to come up with something.

My dad reaches out after the fall and swipes his arm across this table, pretending like the fall was responsible for his arm movement. Sitting on the table is this old black and white TV barely bigger than your laptop. The TV falls to the ground and cracks. Well, my brother is one of those television addicts, so he is really ticked and says something like, "You dumb mother ****er; you broke the TV!"

My brother always brings up that story. You'd think he'd talk about how he won that fight at age 13, but all he can still harp about is how that 13" inch idiot box was busted up. It's still good for a family laugh, but you probably had to be there.

chickenwing
04-30-2013, 21:54
How about instead of wanting a bureaucrat to hit your kid and other kids who aren't yours, you put your money where your mouth is and take your kid/kids out of public school? If the school is so bad that you want to give permission to a government employee to spank your kid and kids who aren't yours, because like you those irresponsible parents aren't doing their job you'd rather have a bureaucrat commit battery to your child and others, remove them from the system.


Some bureaucrat has no right to lay hands on my kid. You want to be some "the good ole days when teachers could hit kids" parent have at it. Just don't include my kid.

And BTW the good ole days weren't so good. If hitting kids was the answer to America's public school problems, by most accounts here we shouldn't have these problems to begin with.

JohnnyReb
04-30-2013, 22:07
I agree.

But SCOTUS ruled that students have a right to a free and meaningful education.


What case?

JohnnyReb
04-30-2013, 22:11
Kick the little bastard out

That's the key. If a student disrupts the learning environment to such a great extent, they should no longer be allowed to be in public school.

TK-421
04-30-2013, 22:13
I'm not a parent, jackwagon. And if i did have kids, you can be sure they'd be disciplined at home.


Then you don't have to worry about paddling at school, because obviously they'd be so well behaved that they wouldn't get in trouble at school, and wouldn't need to be paddled. :rofl:

BEER
04-30-2013, 22:31
Didn't realize how many namby pambys were on GT. :rolleyes:


Corporal punishment ( a quick swat to the rear) was common place many decades ago and kids were much much better behaved and did better in school.

so some random citizen on the street decides that you're acting an ass and decides to lay carved wood across your ass. do you shoot them, or do you just accept it as a form of corporal punishment?

don't lie, be honest and tell us how you would really react.

now once you're done shooting them would you subject your kids to the same treatment without you being there to witness or supervise the treatment? i didn't think so.

here's a crazy idea, and you're gonna have to stick with me for a second or two here but, if you do you job at home then this school paddling thing won't ever be an issue.

teumessian_fox
04-30-2013, 22:36
I'm following this thread about lousy students, then I read a news article about some teacher who was fired for urinating in class, and having students take the urine filled bottles to empty in the bathroom.

No matter what, the whole system's reprobate. Not worth saving.

JohnnyReb
04-30-2013, 22:44
here's a crazy idea, and you're gonna have to stick with me for a second or two here but, if you do you job at home then this school paddling thing won't ever be an issue.

But for parents that don't do this (the real problem), and their students behave poorly at public school, what's the solution?

BEER
04-30-2013, 22:52
the '3 strikes plan". your kids acts up once, he gets detention, a second time and he gets i.s.s, a 3rd time and he/she is all yours and now you get to lose time off work or money for a tutor to deal with your animal child.

now to take it a step further. if your kid is EVER arrested for ANYTHING, it will show that he/she couldn't co-exist in a social environment like school so he/she gets the full sentence for whatever crime they commit. no time served, no good behavior, no anything other than the full sentence right down to the last hour.

if you can't be a productive member of society fromn the start i see no reason for you to be thrown back into out mist without a leash.

certifiedfunds
04-30-2013, 22:56
But for parents that don't do this (the real problem), and their students behave poorly at public school, what's the solution?

Make them GT mods


Posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire (http://www.outdoorhub.com/mobile/)

BobbyS
05-01-2013, 00:53
Nobody here condones or even mentioned a belt.

People who never were a discipline problem can't relate to their kids behaving like a monster, and the person in charge having no tools available to get the attention of and to modify the behavior of that child.

You have to have been there to understand it. The system being talked about requires the parents to consent to the paddling. So it's not even an issue of the kids being hit without the parents' knowledge and consent.

So you seem to have the answers to this issue - what is the teacher to do when the kid stares back at the teacher and says, NO, throws all of their study materials on the floor, and cause a big scene in the classroom? How exactly are you going to get that kid to pay attention and stop interrupting the education of the other students in the class? Sending the kid home won't accomplish that goal, since the kid really wanted to be out of class, so they won. That will reinforce the bad behavior, and the kid will act out again and again. What do you suggest to modify that kid's behavior?


Military - preferably Marines or Army

SC Tiger
05-01-2013, 08:37
Requesting it.

A phone call to explain the circumstances and the recommended disciplinary action. I may or may not grant it, depending on the level of trust I place in the principal or disciplinarian at the school, I may choose to enforce it myself or I may choose an alternative.

My children are my children, not yours or the state's.

This.

If I don't trust the principal in question, have info that he abuses the permission, or just get a "bad vibe" they are not getting permission.

If they do it then they will hear from my attorney. #### will get really ugly then.

All that said I believe I know the principal of the elementary school my son will attend. I trust her completely and would give her permission.

And for the record I do spank my son when he acts out sometimes. I use a mixture of spanking, "time out" and taking favorite toys away. He's 3 so it is hard to know exactly what will work.

certifiedfunds
05-01-2013, 09:31
This.

If I don't trust the principal in question, have info that he abuses the permission, or just get a "bad vibe" they are not getting permission.

If they do it then they will hear from my attorney. #### will get really ugly then.

All that said I believe I know the principal of the elementary school my son will attend. I trust her completely and would give her permission.

And for the record I do spank my son when he acts out sometimes. I use a mixture of spanking, "time out" and taking favorite toys away. He's 3 so it is hard to know exactly what will work.

I've got two.

One only needs to know we're disappointed and she's reduced to tears.

The other gets the occasional swat.

You need to know what works for each kid. You want to change behavior, not punish to punish.

whoops dude
05-01-2013, 11:06
Every school I attended (public and private) had a corporal punishment policy and they were all well thought out and implemented only when really necessary. Never heard any complaints from any parents except the super hardcore left wingers. Btw I'm 23 years old.