Privacy (or not) Thread [Archive] - Glock Talk


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11-27-2013, 11:41
Like it or not, our government is out of control and spying on us relentlessly. If you haven't heard or read about all of the domestic survelience the .gov is engaged in, you're living under a rock. This thread is for articles related to the discussion of articles related to privacy and our loss of Constitutional guarantees of protection from government abuse. These first few articles are from The biggest mistake you can make is concluding that since you're not doing anything wrong, you should not worry about this stuff.

FBI And CIA Use Patriot Act's Bulk Data Collection To Get Money Transfer Data

from the of-course-they-do dept

You didn't think that the bulk collection of phone record information was the only set of records that the intelligence community collected in bulk under the PATRIOT Act, did you? Of course not. That provision says it can be used for "any tangible thing," and since that seems to include bulk data collection, money transfer info sure would be handy for the feds. Both the NY Times ( and the Wall Street Journal ( are running fairly detailed stories about this bulk collection of money transfer data, which is managed by the FBI, but where the data is quickly shipped on to the CIA. They claim that they're focused on foreign-foreign transactions, but sometimes they'll collect Foreign-Domestic transfers as well.

The NY Times piece has a fun section describing all the little ways NSA and other intelligence officials have more or less let it slip that a program like this was going on -- but also quotes someone saying that there's at least one more type of bulk collection that hasn't been revealed yet (and it may be more than one). The WSJ article reveals that Congress only just found out about this program over the summer, even though it's been approved by the FISA Court for a while -- so the usual defenses from the NSA's best friends is inevitable: "it's all legal," they'll say. That said, the report also notes that some in Congress were quite worried.

11-27-2013, 11:43
Judge Halts Sentencing After Feds Admit They Failed To Reveal Use Of NSA Data

from the this-is-why-you-reveal-this-stuff-up-front dept

We've been following the crazy story of the Solicitor General of the US, Donald Verrilli, making blatantly false statements ( to the Supreme Court concerning how the feds would have to reveal to defendants that some of the evidence used against them came from secretive NSA data collection methods. In Verrilli's defense, it is now apparent that lawyers for the intelligence community flat out lied to him, and he is reasonably angry about that -- leading to the DOJ to officially change ( its policy to now be consistent with what Verrilli told the Court: that if NSA data is used against someone, that fact will come out during the process, and the defendant can challenge it. Along with this, the feds have started selectively alerting ( some lawyers that some NSA data was used on their clients.

11-27-2013, 11:44
How The FBI Actually Does Much Of The NSA's Spying, But Is Keeping That Quiet

from the like-they-don't-have-a-history-of-abuses? dept

For all the focus on the NSA of late, a few folks have been trying to remind everyone that the FBI is heavily involved in all of this and, in many ways, has an equally bad if not worse record ( in abusing the rights of Americans. Many of the programs discussed were to retrieve information by the FBI or the NSA, and it turns out that the FBI often does much of the dirty work for the NSA, including interfacing with various companies to get access to data. We'd mentioned recently how the FBI was pushing tech companies to install "port readers" ( at both telco and tech companies (though, many tech firms were resisting), and also that the FBI had been ramping up their use of malware (

11-27-2013, 11:49
So Much For NSA Chief's Offer To Store Data At A 'Neutral' Site: AT&T Receiving $10 Million/Yr From CIA For Phone Records

from the well,-that's-officially-everybody dept

More news has arrived on AT&T's willing accommodation ( of every government agency that asks for a peek at the numbers (or a never ending, rolling 3-month haul ( of all records). At least this time, it's getting something more in return than boilerplate court orders with that new ink pad smell. As the New York Times reports, the CIA wants in on the action, and it doesn't need court orders -- just a big stack of cash ( The C.I.A. is paying AT&T more than $10 million a year to assist with overseas counterterrorism investigations by exploiting the company's vast database of phone records, which includes Americans' international calls, according to government officials.This is all purely voluntary ($10mil of greased palms/wheels notwithstanding), hence the lack of court orders or subpoenas. Oddly enough, this voluntary system actually protects the privacy of Americans much better than the "legal" Section 215 collections. The C.I.A. supplies phone numbers of overseas terrorism suspects, and AT&T searches its database and provides records of calls that may help identify foreign associates, the officials said…

Because the C.I.A. is prohibited from spying on the domestic activities of Americans, the agency imposes privacy safeguards on the program, said the officials, speaking on the condition of anonymity because it is classified. Most of the call logs provided by AT&T involve foreign-to-foreign calls, but when the company produces records of international calls with one end in the United States, it does not disclose the identity of the Americans and “masks” several digits of their phone numbers, the officials said.Of course, these "masked" records can be very simply unmasked by "tipping" them to other agencies, like the FBI, which then acquires a subpoena/court order to "unmask" the records. This just goes to show that these agencies can cooperate, as long as its in the interest of furthering domestic surveillance.

11-27-2013, 11:52
If You Don't Care About The NSA Because You 'Haven't Done Anything Wrong,' You're Wrong

from the you-have-done-many-things-wrong dept

Cardinal Richelieu's famous line is: If you give me six lines written by the hand of the most honest of men, I will find something in them which will hang him. It's easy to twist almost anything to be used against you if someone cares enough. And with a legal code that means people are committing, on average, three felonies a day ( (at least according to one estimate), it can be even worse.

That's worth keeping in mind any time someone writes off the NSA as not being an issue for them because they've "done nothing wrong." Driving home that point is an excellent short "Op-Doc" in the NY Times by filmmaker Brian Knappenberger, which has brief interviews with a bunch of great people (many of whom you'll hopefully recognize) explaining in very clear terms why you should absolutely care about the NSA ( There are many reasons discussed, but a simple one, highlighted by David Sirota, goes back to that quote above. You can claim that you've done nothing wrong all you want. However, if someone really powerful decides they want to railroad you, you'd be surprised at how much it can be made to look like you've "done wrong." And when the NSA (or the FBI) can readily access all sorts of data about your life, their ability to build such a story increases tremendously.

11-27-2013, 15:58
Regardless of political affiliation, social stance, financial means or anything else, if we don't come together to combat this growing threat, if even just to keep it in the news, well, ...................................

11-27-2013, 18:09
...If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand... (

11-28-2013, 01:47
Ummmmmmmmmmmm, yeah. If they want to read the texts I send my girlfriend, have at it. Same with phone calls. Hell they can follow me with a camera for all I care. I have nothing to hide, and if it helps stop someone from doing something wrong, again have at it.

11-28-2013, 01:50
Ummmmmmmmmmmm, yeah. If they want to read the texts I send my girlfriend, have at it. Same with phone calls. Hell they can follow me with a camera for all I care. I have nothing to hide, and if it helps stop someone from doing something wrong, again have at it.

Refer to post #5.

11-28-2013, 11:06

Anyone that's ok with the above is gonna get a rude awakening.'08.