.45 ACP issue [Archive] - Glock Talk

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AF-Odin
04-13-2014, 12:17
Haven't been shooting loading .45 for a while and since i was caught up on 9mm and .40, switched Mr. Dillon over to .45 and LPP. Ran up a batch and when i tested, then the trouble began.

Using mixed range brass appx .895 (speer manual says .898 is OK)

6.9 gr Unique

200 gr Berry's Flat Point seat for OAL of 1.242

All rounds passed GO using a Lyman gauge

Pistols were full size Colt Series 70 and a Rock Island compact

They all "initially" chamber, but when firing after initial chamber and extraction, second round jams not allowing the gun to go back into battery. Upon extraction, previously jammed round goes into chamber fine, again, initially and same action upon second round. The Series 70 could not be fired. the RI Compact, most times just took a nudge to the rear of the slide and round would chamber and fire.

I ten tried two different varieties of factory, S&B FMJ 230 gr and Speer 230 GDHP. Both fired and cyclerd without a hiccup.

OAL for Speer 1.20 and S&B 1.265 and case length for both .895.

Can't figue out what is wrong. OAL or crimp? Shouldn't be powder charge as 6.9 is right at the recommended charge for a 200gr.

Maybe the bullet profile?

Colorado4Wheel
04-13-2014, 13:01
All rounds passed GO using a Lyman gauge


The first thing you need to remember/know is that the case gauge is useless for determining OAL in your guns. ONLY way to do this is with a Plunk Test in your barrels. It needs to go in clean and easily and spin with no friction. Best thing to do (if you don't know how to do this) is load one that is too long and get a feel for what a "fail" is like. Then shorten it till it works cleanly. That is step one.

Next is crimp. The above test will also fail if the crimp is outward at all. I just put the loaded round in the jaws of the calipers, hold it up too the light and look down the edges. You can easily see the outward flare if it remains. No outward flare allowed. End of step two.

For some reason some .45's need a little inward crimp. That would freaking drive me nuts and frankly I would have the barrel reamed if that was my gun. But the two above things will get you started to know if this step is a issue.

I looked at the charge. It should be OK based on Alliant. But they use a shorter OAL. So you should just work it up like any other load after you know the ammo passes the plunk test.

If you didn't work it up from low to high. Shame, shame on you. You wasted your time at the range because you didn't spend the time at the bench properly. For some reason I see a lot of that on this forum lately. That may not be your but that has come up recently in several post.

WeeWilly
04-13-2014, 14:18
The first thing you need to remember/know is that the case gauge is useless for determining OAL in your guns. ONLY way to do this is with a Plunk Test in your barrels. It needs to go in clean and easily and spin with no friction. Best thing to do (if you don't know how to do this) is load one that is too long and get a feel for what a "fail" is like. Then shorten it till it works cleanly. That is step one.

Next is crimp. The above test will also fail if the crimp is outward at all. I just put the loaded round in the jaws of the calipers, hold it up too the light and look down the edges. You can easily see the outward flare if it remains. No outward flare allowed. End of step two.

For some reason some .45's need a little inward crimp. That would freaking drive me nuts and frankly I would have the barrel reamed if that was my gun. But the two above things will get you started to know if this step is a issue.

I looked at the charge. It should be OK based on Alliant. But they use a shorter OAL. So you should just work it up like any other load after you know the ammo passes the plunk test.

If you didn't work it up from low to high. Shame, shame on you. You wasted your time at the range because you didn't spend the time at the bench properly. For some reason I see a lot of that on this forum lately. That may not be your but that has come up recently in several post.


I agree.


The flat point bullet usually has a long bearing surface (the straight part) and then an abrupt bend taking you to the flat point.


1911's many times come with little or no free bore (the lands come very near or all the way to the chamber). In a barrel like that, if the bearing surface is very far above the case mouth it will jam into the lands hampering the gun going all the way into battery. Likely the second time through the bullet had set back enough in the previous feed op that the gun would go into battery.


The fix is as Steve described. It sounds like you are very close to seating deep enough (at least with the RIA). Just use the method Steve describes (i.e. Plunk Test) and you should be jake.

AF-Odin
04-13-2014, 17:11
Thank for the pointers and confirmation as to what I thought the problem was.

And yes, I had previously worked this load up from a very light load that initially barely cycled the slide. This load with these bullets is dead-on point of aim at 10 yards and very accurate (when it goes into battery) for these two guns.

Think the issue was that I had readjusted the dies because I had not loaded any .45 in several months and with the latest adjustment, was not seating the bullet quite deep enough.

Now to go load a couple and try the "Plunk Test."

WiskyT
04-14-2014, 15:30
My 1911 had such a short leade that it wouldn't chamber some factory ammo. I had a local guy clean it up with a standard reamer.

But, 45ACP in general is a short leade affair compared to 9mm and 40SW. The Lee 230 TC bullet has to be loaded at 1.180" or less or it won't fit even in my official SAAMI chamber. People on the interwebs (geniuses) say that it will blow your gun up that short. Lyman's cast bullet handbook has data for that exact bullet and they use an OAL of 1.175".

fredj338
04-14-2014, 18:14
My 1911 had such a short leade that it wouldn't chamber some factory ammo. I had a local guy clean it up with a standard reamer.

But, 45ACP in general is a short leade affair compared to 9mm and 40SW. The Lee 230 TC bullet has to be loaded at 1.180" or less or it won't fit even in my official SAAMI chamber. People on the interwebs (geniuses) say that it will blow your gun up that short. Lyman's cast bullet handbook has data for that exact bullet and they use an OAL of 1.175".

As we always say, OAL is GUN & BULLET specific. Why the books are just a guide, & the book data can always be manipulated as you know. One of the guys at my club shoots 45acp loaded to fit into a GAP framed 45acp. They are very short, he just uses GAP mags & less powder.:dunno:

cheygriz
04-15-2014, 11:03
Load them to "book" coal and use a LEE factory crimp die. Problem solved. The .45 ACP headspaces on the extractor so don't obsess about case length unless they're too long to chamber. (very rare)

unclebob
04-15-2014, 11:22
As we always say, OAL is GUN & BULLET specific. Why the books are just a guide, & the book data can always be manipulated as you know. One of the guys at my club shoots 45acp loaded to fit into a GAP framed 45acp. They are very short, he just uses GAP mags & less powder.:dunno:

One of the things I have been told is not to cut down 45acp to gap size brass. Gap brass is the same length as a 9mm.