Issue with 9mm cast [Archive] - Glock Talk

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Schrag4
04-16-2014, 18:47
Ok so I half-way got into casting at the start of the year, but then work got pretty busy for a couple of months so I'm just now getting back in the swing of things. Here's the problem. I think my bullets must be casting a bit wider than expected. Most of them seat just fine like the one on the left (with a little extra flare of course) but every once in a while I get one like the one on the right:

http://i1214.photobucket.com/albums/cc484/Schrag4/LRN_issue.jpg?t=1397694440

As you can see, the case has actually been visibly marked by the seating die. I'm thinking this can't have anything to do with how much flare there is, but instead it has to be that the bullet's diameter is simply too large. The seating takes more force, enough that it's definitely noticeable. I compared the mouth diameter of the two in this picture and the one on the right is a couple of thousandths larger.

I tested a couple to see if they would feed, and they do so just fine. I've noticed that unlike the ones that seat OK, these produce shavings during seating, so I'm sure they'll lead the barrel.

FYI, these are the tumble lube 124gr RN from a Lee 6 cavity mold. I've measured quite a few individual bullets at the lube grooves, pre-lubing, and it appears very few are coming out at 356. Most are 357 to 359. I'm using straight wheel weights, water dropped.

Also, I realize I got a little too much liquid alox on these. :embarassed: How much is enough?

Thanks! I have a ton to learn and I know it.

Colorado4Wheel
04-16-2014, 19:14
Out sure looks like the bulge is only on the left and not as much on the right. If its like that or low on one side and higher on the other the bullet is seating crooked.

Schrag4
04-16-2014, 19:33
Out sure looks like the bulge is only on the left and not as much on the right. If its like that or low on one side and higher on the other the bullet is seating crooked.

I believe it's just the camera angle. I just took a closer look at that case and the marks appear on most of the case, with 2 small bands on opposite sides where no mark appears. So if I had turned the case a bit, you would have seen marks on both sides of that place that isn't marked.

happie2shoot
04-16-2014, 20:29
It looks like that poor kid that was in a fire and got his eye lids burnt off.
The doctor rebuilt them out of his foreskin and said he will be ok, just a
little kockeyed.

fredj338
04-16-2014, 20:29
One reason I like to size all my bullets. It's almost impossible that each cav in a 6cav will throw the exact same size bullet. Throw in mixed brass, this will happen. The TL does not size well, so switch molds & start sizing or live with it.
Also, more flare helps the bullet seat a bit straighter. The Lyman M die even better.

Schrag4
04-16-2014, 20:51
Since they feed fine, I'm OK with the notion of just adding a bit more flare so that the larger bullets don't get shaved during seating. Would brass life suffer significantly due to A) more flare or B) the scratches from seating oversized bullets?

Colorado4Wheel
04-17-2014, 04:37
If there is any variation in the bulge (for lack of a better word) along the case they are not seating straight. Roll them on the table and see if they wobble at all. I think you need more flare. Don't worry about case life. Unless your flaring over .020 it wont significantly different as gear as case life.

Schrag4
04-17-2014, 05:08
I've got a couple of votes for more flare, so I'm going to give that a try and see if the problem goes away. Now that I think about it, maybe the markings are just from the lead shavings being smashed/rubbed up against the outside of the case inside the die as it's seated - or maybe I'm full of it :dunno:

Thanks for your input. I'll try to report back once I've had a chance to load some more (hopefully this weekend).

BigDog[RE]
04-17-2014, 06:23
Do you size your bullets after casting? If you do they should all be the same size...

cookselk
04-17-2014, 06:30
I once ran into a similar problem using mixed brass. One brand of foreign brass, don't remember which one right now, did the same thing. The problem was that the brass walls were thicker near the base and as a consequence the heavy 147 gr. bullets that I was casting encountered this thicker case wall and caused it to bulge at this point. I've since switched to Lee 125 Rn's and 120gr. TC's and no longer have that problem.

Since you are using TL's it may a combination of a oversize bullet and thicker brass. I thought, like others, that the bullets may be seating cock-eyed. I've felt a bullet catch on the case mouth and pulled out a completed round that looks like this too.

Try belling your brass more and pay attention to your brass head stamps and see if it makes a difference.

AZson
04-17-2014, 08:16
A Lee factory crimp die would smooth bulge out. I use it on all my semi-auto rounds.

Schrag4
04-17-2014, 09:14
;21167545']Do you size your bullets after casting? If you do they should all be the same size...

I was under the impression that bullets of the tumble-lube variety cannot be resized, at least not without damaging the lube grooves.

Schrag4
04-17-2014, 09:29
A Lee factory crimp die would smooth bulge out. I use it on all my semi-auto rounds.

I've found that these are casting a little too large for my FCD, so I'm just removing the flare during seating. I posted about problems a couple of months ago and the majority here convinced me to ditch the FCD for my particular setup. The FCD was actually swaging the bullets in the case, to the point that they were loose enough to push into the case by hand with very little force.

SJ 40
04-17-2014, 09:30
I was under the impression that bullets of the tumble-lube variety cannot be resized, at least not without damaging the lube grooves.If only Lee multi cavity moulds produced two or more bullets anywhere near the same diameters.

I would and have sized TL bullets in the past with no issues.
SJ 40

fredj338
04-17-2014, 10:49
A Lee factory crimp die would smooth bulge out. I use it on all my semi-auto rounds.

UGhhh, it also resizes the lead bullet in the process. LFCD, really??:dunno:

fredj338
04-17-2014, 10:52
If only Lee multi cavity moulds produced two or more bullets anywhere near the same diameters.

I would and have sized TL bullets in the past with no issues.
SJ 40

Exactly, true with any multi cav mold, but Lee tend to be worse. Then throw in casting temp & alloy variation, as cast size will be all over the place. While you can size the TL bullets, success will depend on what size they start at & finish size. Many times the small grooves get sized completely off. Why the regular groove design is a better bet IMO, you can still tumble lube, but have the option to effectively size.

Colorado4Wheel
04-17-2014, 12:35
If you look closely at the bullet and the exposed ring of the bullet above the case you can see its not even.

dkf
04-17-2014, 13:30
UGhhh, it also resizes the lead bullet in the process. LFCD, really??:dunno:

The number of guys that use the LFCD as a bandaid for reloading issues is astounding.

fredj338
04-17-2014, 18:54
The number of guys that use the LFCD as a bandaid for reloading issues is astounding.

Hey Mr Lee says it's magic like Obamacare. Hmmm.:upeyes:

Schrag4
04-18-2014, 18:06
I added some flare and loaded some more today. There were far fewer that had these markings, and the markings were less pronounced when they did appear. I'm pretty sure lead wasn't getting shaved off of the bullets anymore. It seems like adding flare made a positive difference. I've only added 1/4 turn so far.

WiskyT
04-19-2014, 10:51
I added some flare and loaded some more today. There were far fewer that had these markings, and the markings were less pronounced when they did appear. I'm pretty sure lead wasn't getting shaved off of the bullets anymore. It seems like adding flare made a positive difference. I've only added 1/4 turn so far.

And yet people were bashing the Lee mold. Your bullets were seating cockeyed. Adding a touch more flare seems to have solved your problem. There is no need to size bullets if they chamber when loaded in your ammo. Having all the bullets the same size does nothing but satisfy people who think they must "blueprint" everything they put their hands on. The barell of your gun will size those bullets by the time they come out the other end.

Keep an eye on the possibility of more cockeyed rounds in the future. It is often caused by a seating stem that doesn't match the bullet nose well. If this is part of your problem, nothing has been done to change that and you may get some off-center ones still.

I'm not carping on you, just the types who always chime in with Lee quality control "issues" when they aren't an issue. A thousandth of an inch variation in bullets is due to a "crap mold"? We are talking about 1/3 the thickness of a human hair here. The tightness of your mic'ing techniques would be a bigger factor in that than the true diameter of a given bullet.

As for lube amount, I barley see any on there at all, but it could just be the pic. Are you trying to keep the lube off of the nose or something? ou'll go out of your mind doing all that. Just dump them in a plastic jar and swirl them around with a teaspoon or two of LLA and dump them on some wax paper.

jlbeasley1976
04-19-2014, 12:38
Hey, op. Just posted a thread the other day concerning these exact same molds. All of mine are dropping .357-.358. I have decided to use this same mold for my 9 and .38 rounds. Had some good info in the my thread "should I expect leading".

Colorado4Wheel
04-19-2014, 12:51
And yet people were bashing the Lee mold. Your bullets were seating cockeyed. Adding a touch more flare seems to have solved your problem. There is no need to size bullets if they chamber when loaded in your ammo. Having all the bullets the same size does nothing but satisfy people who think they must "blueprint" everything they put their hands on. The barell of your gun will size those bullets by the time they come out the other end.

Keep an eye on the possibility of more cockeyed rounds in the future. It is often caused by a seating stem that doesn't match the bullet nose well. If this is part of your problem, nothing has been done to change that and you may get some off-center ones still.

I'm not carping on you, just the types who always chime in with Lee quality control "issues" when they aren't an issue. A thousandth of an inch variation in bullets is due to a "crap mold"? We are talking about 1/3 the thickness of a human hair here. The tightness of your mic'ing techniques would be a bigger factor in that than the true diameter of a given bullet.

As for lube amount, I barley see any on there at all, but it could just be the pic. Are you trying to keep the lube off of the nose or something? ou'll go out of your mind doing all that. Just dump them in a plastic jar and swirl them around with a teaspoon or two of LLA and dump them on some wax paper.

Wisky is right. People are quick to blame equipement and the vast majority of the time it's the setup by the user or some other user created problem. Especially in casting. It seems you still don't see that the bullets are not seated straight. That should have been obvious to you once I pointed it out in the first post. That is your issue, along with the shavings all created mostly by lack of flare. You need to develop the "eye" to be able to see it. Even if your not shaving lead you may get more rounds like that. IF our using a Lee die take the stem out, put it in a drill, spin it fast and polish it up. Also, on any stem you need to clean it a lot more often when loading lead. Wax build up is not your friend. Good Luck.

Edit: I also see remaining flare in the picture as well.