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DEE50
04-18-2014, 13:32
I reloaded some 50 AE ammo for my Desert Eagle and was having an issue with the slide occasionally locking back after each round. On the second magazine the gun locked up completely, and I now can't get the slide to budge. I stopped what I was doing instantly, because I've heard all of the reloading horror stories. I later used a mirror and light to look in the chamber, and it looks like there's a full cartridge in the gun rather than a bullet lodged halfway down the barrel. Any suggestions on how to get this cartridge out? The magazine springs and recoil springs are all fairly new. The cartridge I was loading goes like this:

COL: Approximately 1.580-1.583"
Projectile: 300 Grain Speer Unicore
Powder: H110
Charge: 32 Gr
Brass: Hornady
Primer: Federal Large Magnum Pistol

I asked Speer directly for that cartridge overall length. Thanks guys.

WeeWilly
04-18-2014, 13:51
Sounds like maybe you were loading a little long, at least for that guns throat (and slide stop) and you jammed the bullet into the lands before the slide could get back into battery.


When that happens, point the gun in a safe direction, hold the slide with your strong hand (on top) and slam your off hand into the back of the grip (where you grip it) hitting the grip right where you would grip it with the web of your hand. The slide should break loose.

DEE50
04-18-2014, 13:57
Sounds like maybe you were loading a little long, at least for that guns throat (and slide stop) and you jammed the bullet into the lands before the slide could get back into battery.


When that happens, point the gun in a safe direction, hold the slide with your strong hand (on top) and slam your off hand into the back of the grip (where you grip it) hitting the grip right where you would grip it with the web of your hand. The slide should break loose.

I know that the COL should be different with every cartridge. Speer gave me that COL for that particular bullet. Should I just go with the Hornady XTP COL in their manual instead?

WeeWilly
04-18-2014, 14:18
Duplicate post, sorry

WeeWilly
04-18-2014, 14:24
I know that the COL should be different with every cartridge. Speer gave me that COL for that particular bullet. Should I just go with the Hornady XTP COL in their manual instead?


Usually with .44RM, the COL in the load data will line the case mouth up very close to the cannelure, so you can crimp into it. In any case, the OAL in the load data is a minimum OAL, which doesn't mean loading shorter is unsafe, it just means it wasn't tested any deeper.


It sounds like that particular bullet, using Speer's OAL isn't compatible with your deagle. If it were me, I would seat shorter if I had the room in the case and I could still crimp into the cannelure. With H110 (and not having the bullet jammed into the lands ;) ) a nice firm crimp seems to help.


Oops, I just re-read and you are loading for 50AE, sorry, disregard any 44RM references.. ;)


Hodgdon lists 1.575" OAL for a 325gr bullet with 32.5gr of H110, so you should be FINE loading shorter at 32gr.

DEE50
04-18-2014, 14:41
Usually with .44RM, the COL in the load data will line the case mouth up very close to the cannelure, so you can crimp into it. In any case, the OAL in the load data is a minimum OAL, which doesn't mean loading shorter is unsafe, it just means it wasn't tested any deeper.


It sounds like that particular bullet, using Speer's OAL isn't compatible with your deagle. If it were me, I would seat shorter if I had the room in the case and I could still crimp into the cannelure. With H110 (and not having the bullet jammed into the lands ;) ) a nice firm crimp seems to help.


Oops, I just re-read and you are loading for 50AE, sorry, disregard any 44RM references.. ;)


Hodgdon lists 1.575" OAL for a 325gr bullet with 32.5gr of H110, so you should be FINE loading shorter at 32gr.

1.575" is the same Maximum COL that the Hornady Handbook states. In the past people have told me that I need to contact the manufacturer of a projectile in order to determine its COL. In other words, just because the 300 Gr Hornady XTP can be loaded1.575" doesn't mean the 300 Gr Speer can be. Should I go ahead and load them at 1.575" again?

WeeWilly
04-18-2014, 14:51
1.575" is the same Maximum COL that the Hornady Handbook states. In the past people have told me that I need to contact the manufacturer of a projectile in order to determine its COL. In other words, just because the 300 Gr Hornady XTP can be loaded1.575" doesn't mean the 300 Gr Speer can be. Should I go ahead and load them at 1.575" again?


I can only tell you what I would do, which would be to load them shorter so they would chamber properly and not catch on your slide stop tab during feed.


But you have to decide. If Speer says 1.585 OAL, it means that is the shortest OAL they tested that bullet to, so their pressure data is based on that depth of seating. If you want to be 100% sure, you should call Speer on Monday and ask them.


I have found with slower powders (like H110), seating depth plays less of a role is velocity changes than powder charges. For certain, the ones that were jammed into the lands that did chamber and fire had much higher pressure than any you will load to a shorter OAL.


Just my $.02

WeeWilly
04-18-2014, 15:01
1.575" is the same Maximum COL that the Hornady Handbook states. In the past people have told me that I need to contact the manufacturer of a projectile in order to determine its COL. In other words, just because the 300 Gr Hornady XTP can be loaded1.575" doesn't mean the 300 Gr Speer can be. Should I go ahead and load them at 1.575" again?


Just as an aside, the OAL in load data is a MINIMUM OAL, that is, seating the bullet any deeper has not been tested and is not represented in the load data pressures. When loading faster powder in small cases, MINIMUM OAL is a very important number, less so with slower powders and larger cases.


People are right that each bullet is different and manufacturers publish data for specific bullets, but in reality, there is a margin for error in this stuff, with a 50AE and H110, .010" is not going to be noticeable in your load.

DEE50
04-18-2014, 15:01
I can only tell you what I would do, which would be to load them shorter so they would chamber properly and not catch on your slide stop tab during feed.


But you have to decide. If Speer says 1.585 OAL, it means that is the shortest OAL they tested that bullet to, so their pressure data is based on that depth of seating. If you want to be 100% sure, you should call Speer on Monday and ask them.


I have found with slower powders (like H110), seating depth plays less of a role is velocity changes than powder charges. For certain, the ones that were jammed into the lands that did chamber and fire had much higher pressure than any you will load to a shorter OAL.


Just my $.02

So, do you think 1.575" is good then? If I remember right, I think I was loading them on that before and didn't have any issues.

DEE50
04-18-2014, 15:03
Also, I will need to pull the remainder of these bullets, right? I mean, they can't be seated lower without pulling them can they? Do you think the slide was locking back because of overpressure from the bullet being too long, or because I was only loading 32 grains of powder?

DEE50
04-18-2014, 15:09
I did what you said regarding the tapping, and the slide went back into place. Thanks!

WeeWilly
04-18-2014, 15:17
So, do you think 1.575" is good then? If I remember right, I think I was loading them on that before and didn't have any issues.


I think I told you what I would do, in the quote you included in your last post.


Here is an even better idea. Make up some dummy rounds you can hand cycle through your deagle. Determine the OAL that will allow you to reliably feed through the gun, ensuring the slide stop is missed (you can usually see the ogive of the bullet in the magazine and if it will clear the slide stop tab) and the rounds are not jamming into the lands.


You can coat the bullets with a marking pen if you are unsure if they are jamming at your new OAL. Deep scratches is the ink indicate you need to seat a little deeper.


Now once you have you new OAL, start with Hornaday's start load of 27.7gr (load a magazines worth). Shoot them and see how they feed and if the bullets are indeed missing the slide stop and not jamming into the lands.


Then move up in half grain increments until you get to your target 32gr, inspecting each magazines worth of cases for pressure signs. Pretty sure you will be able to get back to your target load without any problems.


BTW, stop if you get to 33.7gr, Hornaday's max load for their 300gr XTP.


At least that is how I would do it, but you could also just wait and call Speer on Monday.


Have a Happy Easter!

WeeWilly
04-18-2014, 15:21
Also, I will need to pull the remainder of these bullets, right? I mean, they can't be seated lower without pulling them can they? Do you think the slide was locking back because of overpressure from the bullet being too long, or because I was only loading 32 grains of powder?


The slide was likely locking back because the nose of the bullet was catching on the tab of your slide stop as the bullet came up under feed. If you look at the slide stop (from the inside), there is a little tab that the follower in the magazine pushes up on when the last round has been fed, engaging the slide stop. If the bullet ogive hits that tab as it is being fed up, the slide locks back. By seating shorter, the ogive of the bullet will probably miss that tab and your slide will quit locking back before the last round.


If they are jacketed, I would just seat them deeper with the seating die. If lead, yes, pull and start over.

DEE50
04-18-2014, 15:41
The slide was likely locking back because the nose of the bullet was catching on the tab of your slide stop as the bullet came up under feed. If you look at the slide stop (from the inside), there is a little tab that the follower in the magazine pushes up on when the last round has been fed, engaging the slide stop. If the bullet ogive hits that tab as it is being fed up, the slide locks back. By seating shorter, the ogive of the bullet will probably miss that tab and your slide will quit locking back before the last round.


If they are jacketed, I would just seat them deeper with the seating die. If lead, yes, pull and start over.

Thank you for your help.

njl
04-18-2014, 18:40
Also, I will need to pull the remainder of these bullets, right? I mean, they can't be seated lower without pulling them can they?

What makes you think they can be pulled out but can't be pushed further in? Unless you've got some serious crimp on them in a cannelure/crimp groove on the bullet, your seating die / press should have no trouble pushing them a little deeper into the cases. I've done it with .45acp that I found needed to be shortened a bit to chamber.

Kwesi
04-19-2014, 08:33
njl: good point. That has worked well for me a few times.