45 colt load for med. game [Archive] - Glock Talk

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Big Bore Fan
05-29-2014, 20:06
UPS showed up today with the Cast Performance bullets I ordered, .452/265 WFN with gas check. I plan on using these to hopefully hunt deer and to use as a trail/camp gun in the rare chance I have a bad encounter with a black bear.

My question is, what would be a good velocity to shoot for? I have read Linebaugh's writing's on the 45 colt and he seems to like h110 and w296 which I have a full pound of both. His starting load is 25.5 @1364 for a 260 grain cast and max 27 @ 1459. I just want enough punch to ensure a clean kill on deer and god forbid enough to deter/kill black bear. If I get good accuracy at the 1300fps level am I safe to assume that would be enough velocity to get the job done?

BTW this load will be used in a large frame Blackhawk.

WeeWilly
05-29-2014, 20:56
1300fps should be plenty with that slug, but if it were me, I think I would stick with Hodgdon data. They list 260gr lead at 23.5 Start and 24.0 max for 1350-1375fps. Anything in that range should be more than enough and will surely perform well.

The most important thing is to not download below listed start loads with W296/H110. It needs a lot of pressure to burn consistently and gets pretty erratic burn wise as you lighten up. You can go from a clean bore to lots of unburned powder pretty quick.

fredj338
05-29-2014, 21:20
IMO, you don't get much more terminal performance going from 1200-1300fps. You do get a lot more recoil though. My 44mag hunting load is a 270gr lead cup point @1250fps. It kills just fine, will shoot into 3" @ 100yds on a good day off a rest. I can get that with 2400.
For my heavy 45colt loads, a 270gr lead cup pt @ 1050fps won't stay inside a deer or hog. With solids, vel is even less important.

Big Bore Fan
05-29-2014, 21:45
Willy, the Hodgdon websight list a jacketed bullet for that weight not lead. Will that make a big difference?

Fred, my goal is to get enough FPS to get the job done but to keep recoil at a min. I know H110 is prob not the best for that unless I want full throttle but it's what I have and a lot of it. I was planning a trip to my local gun shop this weekend to try and fine a Lyman manual, Ill look around and see what the powder situation looks like. Here lately it ain't good :crying:.

What are some powders I should be looking for to get 1100-1200fps? Herc 2400?

Thanks for the help guys.

WeeWilly
05-29-2014, 23:14
Willy, the Hodgdon websight list a jacketed bullet for that weight not lead. Will that make a big difference?

Fred, my goal is to get enough FPS to get the job done but to keep recoil at a min. I know H110 is prob not the best for that unless I want full throttle but it's what I have and a lot of it. I was planning a trip to my local gun shop this weekend to try and fine a Lyman manual, Ill look around and see what the powder situation looks like. Here lately it ain't good :crying:.

What are some powders I should be looking for to get 1100-1200fps? Herc 2400?

Thanks for the help guys.

Oops sorry, still not that used to the new format of the site. It will make a difference in pressure, probably not enough to break something on your Ruger, but better safe than sorry. I will go downstairs tomorrow and dig up some of my old books and records, for sure we can get you a safe load with hat bullet and powder.

BTW, I agree with Fred on all his points. Out here the only genuine threat to a grown man is another two legged animal. Big cats are beginning to cause a few scares here and there as their habitat dwindles and they lose their shyness, but you can stop one of those with just about anything you might use as protection from another human. If I lived/hunted in real bear or moose country, I think I would be loading with solids like you have and using H110, I know if I had to stand in there when a mad sow was charging, I probably wouldn't be feeling the recoil much.

Blue Dot, 2400, Unique will work fine for moderate to stout big bore loads. Even W231 will get you over 1100 fps. Lots of choices really, anything middle of the road burn rate wise.

I hate having to use this qualifier, but the old formula for #9 was my favorite magnum powder. You could download it to 1000fps for a bullet like the one you are using and yet step on the gas and get real close to H110 territory. Unfortunately, I have not gotten any of the new stuff to see if it reacts the same.

oger
05-30-2014, 03:56
You will find 24 gr of H110 is easier to live with and will stop anything you will ever run into. I would suggest you do some range time with the weapon before heading out into the field.

fredj338
05-30-2014, 08:36
Willy, the Hodgdon websight list a jacketed bullet for that weight not lead. Will that make a big difference?

Fred, my goal is to get enough FPS to get the job done but to keep recoil at a min. I know H110 is prob not the best for that unless I want full throttle but it's what I have and a lot of it. I was planning a trip to my local gun shop this weekend to try and fine a Lyman manual, Ill look around and see what the powder situation looks like. Here lately it ain't good :crying:.

What are some powders I should be looking for to get 1100-1200fps? Herc 2400?

Thanks for the help guys.
With H110 & 265gr LFP, you should be fine down to 19-20gr in the 45colt. Other powders I like; 2400 is my fav, aa#9, blue dot. Longshot & power pistol woud probably be good for 1200fps in a 6" + bbl, just haven't tried them. I can easily get 1000fps w/ unique in a 4 5/8", so 1100fps in a 7 1/2" is possible.

WeeWilly
05-30-2014, 10:39
OK, the bad news, I can't find any published load data in my stack of books for heavier lead loads in .45 Colt and H110/W296. I did some loading for my 45 BH with heavier lead slugs and I think 24gr is actually fine, but I have no proof. I know there is load data out there as I had a starting point back when I was playing with it. I lent (gave away?) my Lyman lead book, so maybe that is where you will find some data, not sure.

You can work loads up, the problem with H110/W296 is when you get down too low in pressure the ignition gets erratic. You will know when you are too low as you will get a lot of unburned powder. If you are starting really low, don't make many of each charge and make sure you get an impact on target for every shot, or check the bore between shots. Move up in .2-.3 grain increments. If extraction gets a little sticky, back off. That is how I would do it anyway.

You will get some people that tell you undercharges can cause kabooms with H110/W296 from flashover, shaped charge effects, etc. That is, of course, nonsense. The real risk with going too low with H110/W296 is a stuck bullet from incomplete combustion and then a subsequent shot which breaks things for good. Just make sure the bullet has left the barrel when starting low. Also, magnum primers are a good idea with H110/W296.

Good luck.

Big Bore Fan
05-30-2014, 10:58
Thanks willy and fred. Starting to low was a concern of mine but after searching the net and reading yalls post I think I have a pretty good idea where to start. I'm thinking 22 grains would be good to start with.
I'm on my way now to the gun shop to see what there reloading shelves look like. I have winchester large primers now, they say good for standard and mag. I'm going to see if they have any "real" mag primers while I'm there. I ran into the h110/standard primer problems while loading 30 carbine.
And of course another loading manual, lol.

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fredj338
05-30-2014, 12:10
Thanks willy and fred. Starting to low was a concern of mine but after searching the net and reading yalls post I think I have a pretty good idea where to start. I'm thinking 22 grains would be good to start with.
I'm on my way now to the gun shop to see what there reloading shelves look like. I have winchester large primers now, they say good for standard and mag. I'm going to see if they have any "real" mag primers while I'm there. I ran into the h110/standard primer problems while loading 30 carbine.
And of course another loading manual, lol.

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Ruger only loads from Hornady show lower start charges for jacketed 300grJHP. Some extrapolation got me to the 18-20gr charge for a 270-285grLSWC. Seems to run fine in my 4 5/8", but I prefer 2400 loading under 1100fps in the shorter bbl.

ilgunguygt
05-31-2014, 02:08
I have always preferred 2400 in my hot 45 colt loads, even more so with lead bullets.


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oger
05-31-2014, 07:13
Lately I have been using Longshot because I can find it. It works surprisingly well and there is no need for mag. primers. Start out with 12 gr and go from there.

Big Bore Fan
05-31-2014, 07:58
My trip to the gun shop didn't turn out to well as far as powder selection goes. I did get some Fed. LP mag primers though and a Lyman manual. I'll let yall know what charge I end up with but it might be a few weeks. My gun has been at the gunsmith for just about 3 weeks now getting the forcing cone recut to 11 degrees. He told me 2-4 weeks so I was hoping for a phone call yesterday but no luck. At least I have a new manual to read while I'm waiting.

Thanks everyone I'll keep you posted.

SDGlock23
06-01-2014, 06:18
I've not loaded any 265gr in my Ruger .45 Bisley but looking at my data for 250-275gr bullets, it seems that in addition to H110/W296, that 2400 is very suitable as is Unique.

One thing I've found with 2400 is that it seems to be very consistent and give low ES's and SD's. If you can find some it would be worthwhile, because as others have mentioned, the beautiful thing about big bore hardcasts is that you don't NEED to drive them to max in order for them to work. That 265gr you have even a 1000 fps will work well.

Looking at my data for some 280gr WFNGC from Beartooth (that weigh more like 275gr) 21-22gr of 2400 yielded 1205-1255 fps respectively from my 5.5" Ruger Bisley. Unique with 11.5gr with the same bullet/gun was giving me about 1,150 fps. Even at those speeds, which can be topped by using powders like H110/W296 and Lil'Gun, are more than enough for deer or black bear. You could use similar data to mine and a little more with those 265's you just got.

I've got some 265gr Keiths on the way (with a .350" meplat) from Beartooth, but it might be several months before they get here. Plan on trying them in the Bisley and the G21 .45 Super.

Agent6-3/8
06-03-2014, 18:55
I'm currently running two of John Linebaugh's loads in my .45 Colt S&W Mountain Gun.

The first is 13g HS-6 with a 255g Keith hard cast from Missouri Bullet Co. Velocity is around 925fps from a 4" tube. I've also used the same charge with a 250g XTP.

The second load is 24g H-110/W296 over the same 255g bullet. Velocity with this load is pushing 1100fps. This is the load I carry in the woods and feel its has more than adequate power for anything in the eastern US.

http://www.handloads.com/articles/?id=12

Bluescot
06-04-2014, 01:06
I've worked up some 45Colt loads for a Vaquero Bisley using a 300g LaserCast bullet and H110.

23.5g got me 1204 fps out of a 4.75" barrel and 24.0g starting to show some pressure signs and only got to 1213fps. I'm using the 23.5g loading which is for a different bullet weight than yours.

Recoil with this load is noticeable.

Big Bore Fan
06-15-2014, 08:36
Ok, the good and the bad news.

The good news is I got my BH back from the smith yesterday and he did an awesome job on the forcing cone.

I tested some loads with the 265's starting with 23 and 23.5 grains of H110 at 25 yards using the toolbox in the bed of the truck to rest off of. I was getting somewhere in the neighborhood of 1150-1200 fps. I didn't wright the results down.

Now the bad news. I was getting like 6-8in groups about 10in low and to the left. My buddy was there with me and shot a few times with the same results. I had some of my 250gr RNFP trailboss loads at 750fps with me so I tried some of those. All 6 holes where almost touching but a little high and right. Probably from getting the forcing cone cut, I'll have to rezero.

So my guess to the crappy results is the shooter, neither me nor my buddy have a lot of time behind heavy recoiling handguns.

Any other ideas? I think I will be holding off on loading these until I can find some 2400 or unique.

fredj338
06-15-2014, 08:50
Well shooting magnums accurately does take some getting used to. A heavier load should be shooting high, not low. Likely you are pushing on the gun anticipating recoil. I had to grind some off the bottom of te rear sight so I could get the rear sight to adjust deeper in the frame. Now my RBH shoots poa with those 280gr LSWC @ 1100fps.
Try some midrange loads, back the h110 off to 18-19gr, see how that works. Make sure your 265gr bullets are at least 0.452" in dia.

WeeWilly
06-15-2014, 10:25
Recoil will definitely affect your consistency.

If I go out wailing away on my 10mm nuclear loads and see the groups grow ever larger, I am reminded how much recoil affects performance, when I pull out one of my 1911's and drill out the bull with a few magazines of target velocity 200gr LSWC's.

I am not sure I can shoot any better than with my 5" Model 29 loaded with 240gr LSWC's going along at 900fps, all day long.

Big Bore Fan
06-15-2014, 21:11
Well shooting magnums accurately does take some getting used to. A heavier load should be shooting high, not low. Likely you are pushing on the gun anticipating recoil. I had to grind some off the bottom of te rear sight so I could get the rear sight to adjust deeper in the frame. Now my RBH shoots poa with those 280gr LSWC @ 1100fps.
Try some midrange loads, back the h110 off to 18-19gr, see how that works. Make sure your 265gr bullets are at least 0.452" in dia.

I measured the remaining bullets tonight. They ranged from .4515-.453. I decided to use my cyl. as a gauge since I had the throats reamed they should all be .4525. I made two piles, one for the bullets that could be pushed through with minimal pressure and one that could not. I ended up with 21 bullets that fit my cyl and a bunch more that where to big. That might explain why I had 1-3 a few inches apart and the rest like 5in from them.

Needless to say I'm not impressed with the consistency in sizing from Cast Performance. I don't think I will be buying anymore of there bullets.

Fred, I will back off and give It a try. I still would like to find some other subtitle powders to try though. There's a gun show coming the first week of July, I've gotten pretty lucky finding powder there.

Willy, next time I go out shooting I will defiantly bring a good rest and see if that helps with the grouping.

fredj338
06-15-2014, 21:29
If you can get some 2400, like magic in big bores with lead bullets. You also won't need a mag primer.

Big Bore Fan
06-29-2014, 08:14
I'm back with another update.

I was finally able to load some 280gr LSWC and shoot them yesterday. I loaded 5 at 19 grains and 5 at 19.5 of H110. The velocity's where in the 850 range for the 19 and 900 for 19.5. Both shot about 4 inches low and slightly to the left and managed about a 3.5 to 4 inch group at 20 yards. I know that's nothing to wright home about but defiantly better than the last time out. I can surely tell I need to practice with these heavier loads. With both loads I could get 2 or 3 of the shots almost touching then the others where off. I'm positive it was me because when I payed close attention to shooting that's when I got the better groups. I'm still looking for some 2400, hopefully I'll have some luck at the next gun show.

One thing I'm starting to notice is those thin plastic checkered grips that come on the new Blackhawks suck. I will defiantly be looking for some smooth wood grips soon. There's actually a small area on the grip that is worn from rubbing my hands.

WeeWilly
06-29-2014, 09:38
Thanks for the follow up report.

It is so refreshing to get follow up results.

fredj338
06-29-2014, 13:05
Sounds like you are on the right track.
Grips are such a personal thing. I prefer a bit of texture on my sa grips, so have Eagle gunfighter thin grips on my 4 5/8". It's quit comfortable with 280-300g bullets runnng 1000fps.

Big Bore Fan
06-29-2014, 17:33
Sounds like you are on the right track.
Grips are such a personal thing. I prefer a bit of texture on my sa grips, so have Eagle gunfighter thin grips on my 4 5/8". It's quit comfortable with 280-300g bullets runnng 1000fps.

I was looking at the Eagle gunfighter grips actually. I usually lean towered the thinner grips on my simi autos but I'm torn between thin and thick on the SA. I recently bought a Vaquero to use for Cowboy Fast Draw and the previous owner put simulated stag grips on it that are kinda in the middle of the two thicknesses. I really like how they feel but I've only shot cowboy loads through it so far.

Fred do you know if the gunfighter grips are thicker than the new thin style plastics Ruger is using now? I know they are thinner than the old style plow handles. I was hoping they might fall in between.

fredj338
06-29-2014, 17:53
I haven't handled a new gripped ruger, so can't say. I can measure the width of my eagle grips if you like. They are quite a bit thinner than the older BH grips.

Big Bore Fan
06-29-2014, 19:22
That would be great Fred, no rush though. I'm in no hurry. Thanks

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Big Bore Fan
09-12-2014, 22:19
FINALLY, I was able to get some 2400. A guy listed a full container plus about 1/3 of another on a local firearm related sight for 20.00. It will be the end of the week at best before I can get some test loads worked up, but at least I got some 2400 :supergrin:

P.S. It's odd I noticed Alliant is located in Radford,VA about an hour and some west of me. And it's this hard to get. Oh and I did get some nice wood grips to, but haven't shot with them yet.

cheygriz
09-13-2014, 10:16
I've always figured that a 250-265 lead bullet and 9.0 of Unique would give me all the power I would ever need for anything in the lower 48. About 950 FPS and not very much recoil.

I know from exprience that it will completely penetrate a bull elk.

sourdough44
09-15-2014, 21:09
I have a Redhawk and Blackhawk in 45 Colt, and have loaded the 265 grn Cast Performance bullets. I don't have detailed accuracy data but I did chronograph some loads with Win-296(H-110) and Unique.

The Unique were a tad slower but still plenty for most uses, sorry no data here. For just a more general load I prefer the Unique loads.

fredj338
09-16-2014, 13:15
I've always figured that a 250-265 lead bullet and 9.0 of Unique would give me all the power I would ever need for anything in the lower 48. About 950 FPS and not very much recoil.

I know from exprience that it will completely penetrate a bull elk.

Kind of my feeling about big bore lead bullets. Nothing is stopping a 250gr+ bullet @ 1000fps +. If you want a little less penetration & more tissue damage, going to a cup point will do just that. Greater mass will still give full broadside penetration on most anything walking this side of the pond.

Big Bore Fan
09-18-2014, 10:42
ok, I'm finally going to be able to do some reloading later today to try the 2400. I'll start at 16 gr and work up using half grain increments to 17.5 gr. According to Brian Pierce's article in handloader magazine that should put me right about where I want to be. I'll let y'all know something as soon as I do.

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Big Bore Fan
09-18-2014, 21:08
Had some pretty good results today. The 16.0 load shot into about 3.5 inches at 25 yards, prob not worth writing home about but way better than I've been doing. I got an average of 925 but that might be a little misleading. The very first shot came in at 1044 fps while the other 4 where 880-900. I'll have to load some more at 16gr and see what I get. If the first shot was in the 890 range the average would have been closer to 893.

It looked like rain was on its way so I stopped loading at 16.5 so I would have time to shoot. That load gave me an average of 941 with an ES of 26, but the group was in the 6in neighborhood. I'm going to try this load again to because I'm pretty sure that was my fault.

I did noticed both loads left a good amount of unburnt powder in the barrel. Is this normal with 2400?

fredj338
09-19-2014, 01:51
I did noticed both loads left a good amount of unburnt powder in the barrel. Is this normal with 2400?
Like other slow powders, best results come as you get pressures up. With a 285gr LSWC over 16.8gr, my 4 5/8" does right at 950fps, 11fps SD, seems pretty clean, std primer. Will do under 3" offhand all day @ 25yds.

ilgunguygt
09-20-2014, 00:29
Had some pretty good results today. The 16.0 load shot into about 3.5 inches at 25 yards, prob not worth writing home about but way better than I've been doing. I got an average of 925 but that might be a little misleading. The very first shot came in at 1044 fps while the other 4 where 880-900. I'll have to load some more at 16gr and see what I get. If the first shot was in the 890 range the average would have been closer to 893.

It looked like rain was on its way so I stopped loading at 16.5 so I would have time to shoot. That load gave me an average of 941 with an ES of 26, but the group was in the 6in neighborhood. I'm going to try this load again to because I'm pretty sure that was my fault.

I did noticed both loads left a good amount of unburnt powder in the barrel. Is this normal with 2400?


In burnt powder means you need a little more pressure to burn better. I'm not going to advocate you exceed whatever data you are comfortable with but <Disclaimer: this data is well and above standard pressure 45 colt, try at your own risk!> I load 255gr LSWC at 19 gr for a nice robust fun to shoot load. I also load the same bullet over 21gr for a hunting load. I have taken it to 21.5 but found nothing more to be gained for me. That load was used on a whitetail here in IL at a distance of 35 yards( give or take) on a front chest shot. The bullet went through the chest cavity and exited the side of the deer breaking the ribs on it's way out. Darn near shot through end to end. It would have killed just as good at 18gr IMO.


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fredj338
09-21-2014, 09:11
In burnt powder means you need a little more pressure to burn better. I'm not going to advocate you exceed whatever data you are comfortable with but <Disclaimer: this data is well and above standard pressure 45 colt, try at your own risk!> I load 255gr LSWC at 19 gr for a nice robust fun to shoot load. I also load the same bullet over 21gr for a hunting load. I have taken it to 21.5 but found nothing more to be gained for me. That load was used on a whitetail here in IL at a distance of 35 yards( give or take) on a front chest shot. The bullet went through the chest cavity and exited the side of the deer breaking the ribs on it's way out. Darn near shot through end to end. It would have killed just as good at 18gr IMO.


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Agree, with solids, another 100fps doesn't affect terminal perf, just adds recoil. With expanding bullets, it can matter quite a bit.

ilgunguygt
09-26-2014, 03:54
Agree, with solids, another 100fps doesn't affect terminal perf, just adds recoil. With expanding bullets, it can matter quite a bit.


Most definitely. Considering how robust the 45 colt Blackhawk is you could probably push a hollowpoint beyond it's designed velocity without blowing up the gun.




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