Big Problem in Todays USPSA Match [Archive] - Glock Talk

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Gtn
06-14-2014, 15:35
Had a problem today during match. Take some shots then I'd have either a click or nothing at all. Rack it, shoot it then click or nothing again.
Happened a couple times with 1 mag. Took mag out of use. Then it happened with other mags.
I started looking at bad rounds and noticed some had primers not quite seated all the way. A couple even had light firing pin hits but they were off to side of primer. I checked my spent brass and they all had good centered primer hits.

My equipment list.
Glock 21 Gen3 and switched to G30S
Only mod is ext mag button
Using my reloads (I stripe my reloads with marker across head stamp)
Day before match gun ran perfect but was using store bought ammo.

Any ideas as to why/what is happening?

bac1023
06-14-2014, 15:39
Did both Glocks have the same issue?

Gtn
06-14-2014, 15:47
Did both Glocks have the same issue?

Yes

The problem seemed to get worse as the day went on.
1st stage had 2 (26 rnd station)
2nd stage had 4 (12 rnd station)
3rd stage had 8-9 (28 rnd station)
Switched to G30S
4th stage had 2 nothings on 1st 2 shots, cleared my gun and said Uncle

Jon_R
06-14-2014, 15:57
Do you have a loaded round gauge? Possible is rounds are just out of spec leaving gun slightly out of battery. Dillon sells them. Were the dud rounds any harder to eject?

If it was just one gun this could be. Did you clean the gun after the factory ammo? Another possibility is your striker channel is gunked up slowing the striker down to hit the primer. Could also be a broken striker but i would expect no rounds would fire then.

Gtn
06-14-2014, 16:11
No gauge. I use to plunk in barrel but they were always good so I stopped doing it.
Not hard to eject.
Gun was cleaned after factory ammo

hikerpaddler
06-14-2014, 16:32
I've had factory rounds that had primers that weren't seated. No bang.

33GlockKR
06-14-2014, 16:45
No gauge. I use to plunk in barrel but they were always good so I stopped doing it.
Not hard to eject.
Gun was cleaned after factory ammo

Plunk test is not sufficient using a Glock barrel to find out if it is the ammo or not, Glock barrels are made over sized so that they can run just about any kind of ammo. Just about all ammo will fit in them.

Ask some of the guys at the matches, I guarantee you many of them reload and have a case guage.

Until you can find out, if it were me and I did not reload, I would change to another brand ammo.

Also, it could be that you need a new striker spring.

ronin.45
06-14-2014, 17:10
You answered your own question. High primers will cause failures almost every time. Not the guns fault. Make sure your primers are seated properly.

red2rider
06-14-2014, 20:43
If you striped marked your cases after reloading. How did you miss the primers not being fully seated? This is the time that I check mine. Even with a case gauge, I always do a good visual before shoot day on every rd.

Gtn
06-14-2014, 20:55
If you striped marked your cases after reloading. How did you miss the primers not being fully seated? This is the time that I check mine. Even with a case gauge, I always do a good visual before shoot day on every rd.

That is a good question. I have no idea how I missed them.

I pulled out all the ones that look even a smidge high. I'll load them back into the mags and see if I can recreate the problem. Then I'll do the same thing with the good seated primers to see if I get any misfires.
This really pissed me off today. I waited months to have the day off for this

Bruce M
06-14-2014, 21:02
With both guns showing the same issue I would say that greatly increases the probability that it is ammunition related.

smokey45
06-15-2014, 06:09
Yep, high primers. Using a case gauge is also a good idea. Although some swear the Glock will not fire when slightly out of battery (usually caused by an out of spec round not fully chambering) my findings point to the contrary. Witness the off center firing pin strikes. Usually at 6: O Clock, and normally too light to ignite the primer. Which is a good thing.
s45

red2rider
06-15-2014, 06:58
That is a good question. I have no idea how I missed them.

I pulled out all the ones that look even a smidge high. I'll load them back into the mags and see if I can recreate the problem. Then I'll do the same thing with the good seated primers to see if I get any misfires.
This really pissed me off today. I waited months to have the day off for this

Are you using a progressive reloader? I say this because I have two friends that shoot USPSA with me and we reload on a 5 stage press one evening during the week.
1 person is filling the machine with cases, and primers. Checking powder charge wt every 50rds
1 person is operating the press and visually inspecting the powder charge before loading the bullet.
1 person is inspecting with a case gauge, and doing a overall round inspection, and inspecting the primer seat.

Even though we've found this works pretty good for us I do still find issues sometimes with the primer not fully seated when I do my final inspection at home with my rds. So I fully understand your bad day during a match. Luckily for me it has happened only during a practice match. I'm sure it will eventually get down to me doing my rounds solo in the future.
Just be thankful your loads haven't found you a squib yet and blown up your gun. I have found 2 very early and was fortunate to have the gun fail to load the second rd during the first time, and catching the 2nd time myself for being weary after the first episode.

John R.
06-15-2014, 07:07
I've had the same thing happen with my XD 45. My shell plate on my Dillon 550 had gotten loose, and was not letting the primer seat all the way. Once I tightened it up, all was back to normal.

Gtn
06-15-2014, 07:33
I use a Lee Classic Turret Press.

I will look over the loader to make sure everything is tight.

I will get a case gauge.

I will do a primer check after every batch from now on.

I will report back after I run this ammo again today. Its Fathers Day - I deserve a little range time.

Scott30
06-15-2014, 08:46
High primers as others have stated. I would bet that if you took the rounds that failed to fire and tried to shoot them again, they would work fine. The first firing pin strike probably seated the primers to the proper depth.

Gtn
06-15-2014, 09:53
Range report
Went to the range and loaded mag up of anything that looked like the primer was high. Nothing happened. Just clicked.
Loaded rest and everyone fired just fine. I think I ran about 60 good ones through.

Now I started looking at the duds more closely. Everyone if them had a S&B headstamp

Noponer
06-15-2014, 10:35
Range report
Went to the range and loaded mag up of anything that looked like the primer was high. Nothing happened. Just clicked.
Loaded rest and everyone fired just fine. I think I ran about 60 good ones through.

Now I started looking at the duds more closely. Everyone if them had a S&B headstamp

I have had so much trouble with S&B brass that I now discard any I find in my brass supply.

The primers would typically get hung up going into the pocket, in my case.

........DVC

Gtn
06-15-2014, 10:38
They will no longer see the inside of a gun barrel

dkf
06-15-2014, 13:38
Plunk test is not sufficient using a Glock barrel to find out if it is the ammo or not, Glock barrels are made over sized so that they can run just about any kind of ammo. Just about all ammo will fit in them.

Ask some of the guys at the matches, I guarantee you many of them reload and have a case guage.

Until you can find out, if it were me and I did not reload, I would change to another brand ammo.

Also, it could be that you need a new striker spring.

Glock barrels are not made "oversized", they are within the SAAMI specified size range. The plunk test is still valid. I have measured mine so I know. Sounds like you are used to tight aftermarket barrels made to SAAMI minimum dimensions.


The primer pockets on S&B tend to be on the tight side. It is possible you thought you seated the primer completely due to the amount of force you used however the anvil of the primer just may not be seated completely.

For match ammo you may want to just use the same head stamp brass. Like Winchester, Remington and etc and skip the S&B.

fredj338
06-15-2014, 15:55
I use a Lee Classic Turret Press.

I will look over the loader to make sure everything is tight.

I will get a case gauge.

I will do a primer check after every batch from now on.

I will report back after I run this ammo again today. Its Fathers Day - I deserve a little range time.
Here is your problem. Not bashing lee, but their priming system leaves a bit to be desired getting them to set fully, same for the LNL. The primer needs to bottom out in the pocket. Even set 0.002" high, you risk a FTF, especially with most striker fired guns.:dunno:

fredj338
06-15-2014, 15:58
Glock barrels are not made "oversized", they are within the SAAMI specified size range. The plunk test is still valid. I have measured mine so I know. Sounds like you are used to tight SAAMI aftermarket barrels made to SAAMI minimum dimensions.

For match ammo you may want to just use the same head stamp brass. Like Winchester, Remington and etc and skip the S&B.
Within spec, but at the fat end.:supergrin:

dkf
06-15-2014, 16:15
Within spec, but at the fat end.:supergrin:

I measured some of mine and they are in the middle of the tolerance. Which I say is not too bad for what it is supposed to be. All mine have been made in the last decade however.(.357 and .40) The older ones are probably a little looser, I never measured them first hand. The "loose Glock chamber" thing just gets old.

FYI I have not found the priming system of the LCT too be bad. It is pretty easy to feel and seat the primer fully. The auto prime does take some lining up to work properly however.

The ram prime kit is an option also.

WeeWilly
06-15-2014, 16:29
Personally, if I have to be 100% certain, I use the barrel the ammo is destined for as my case gauge. I have case gauges for most of my popular calibers and for many loads use one as it saves having to open the safe and field strip the gun.

But, I have loads and guns where the case gauge is not definitive. My 45 Auto 200gr LSWC loads need to be checked in the 1911 it is going to be shot. The reason is a couple of my 1911 barrels have very little free bore. Many lead loads will pass the case gauge with flying colors (basically unlimited free bore) and fail to chamber in the gun.

In the end, the only certain way to know is to chamber check in the barrel the ammo is going to be shot.

unclebob
06-15-2014, 17:26
When I do priming and can do so like on the LCT, hand priming, RCBS Auto Priming tool. I seat the primer then rotate the case about half a turn and seat the primer again. Just to make sure the primer is seated. Match ammo I put the loaded rounds in an ammo tray that factory ammo comes in. at an angle go down each row and inspect the primers. Under a table top lighted magnifying glass helps also. You can also using a peace of MDF about 4 X 6 or a thick piece of glass and flip the rounds out of the tray onto the wood or glass put it on the table and kind of shake the board or glass. If you have a high primer it will fall over.

Gtn
06-15-2014, 19:59
Man what a wealth of info this place is.

Thank you everyone

glock collector
06-16-2014, 05:51
not a reloader here, but as above, you guys are sharp!

smokey45
06-16-2014, 07:32
The priming system on the Lee Classic Turret is about as reliable as it gets. You have good feel and plenty of leverage. Used with the Safety Prime, it's even capable of decent production. I keep one on the bench beside my 650 for loading test loads or small batches of my low volume use ammo. Just get in the habit of paying attention to the feel as the primer is seated, and you'll be golden. Also make it a habit of visually checking every case for high/damaged primers. I check 100% of mine as I chamber check. After passing the chamber gauge, I place the loaded rounds in 100 count boxes, and visually inspect the primers again, before dumping the completed rounds into my ammo bag. I got in the habit of double checking mine from lessons learned when shooting a revolver in USPSA/IDPA. Most of you know what a high primer problem can be like in a revolver.
s45

blastfact
06-16-2014, 21:14
Here is your problem. Not bashing lee, but their priming system leaves a bit to be desired getting them to set fully, same for the LNL. The primer needs to bottom out in the pocket. Even set 0.002" high, you risk a FTF, especially with most striker fired guns.:dunno:

There is nothing wrong with a LCT setting primers. The act of setting the primers is mechanically full proof. Now some folks have issues with the safety prime. There issue is basic motor skills. Along with basic mechanical and setup skills. Mine was fine out of the box. But a tad of 3rd grade level inspection told me I needed to raise the safety prime system just a hair and smoothness would be my reward. A thin washer and it's perfect. A tad of wear would have done the same thing. But I had the washer. :)

And the only reason why Lee tells folks not to use Fed or Win primers is they know a lot of people are HAM FISTED FOOLS!

I've loaded the same brass the OP was using and have never had a issue. I loaded up 200 round using that brass last weekend. 100ea with Fed primers and 100ea with Win primers.

The only issue I have ever had setting primers is bits of broken off primer left in the pocket from the decapping process.

Have fun

Colorado4Wheel
06-17-2014, 09:03
The Safety Prime is fine with Federal Primers. Hence the term "Safety Prime". I also raised mine up. It was smoother like that and a lot less likely (like basically zero) primers would miss the cup. LCT is a great priming machine. If you are having High Primers it's not the press would be my guess.

Gtn
06-17-2014, 09:41
So how/where do I raise this up

WeeWilly
06-17-2014, 10:23
So how/where do I raise this up

When I had a LCT, I used a washer between the press and the Safety Primer cradle that bolts to the press. This raises the Safety Prime such that the "Pez dispenser" matches up with the primer arm, facilitating smoother primer transfer from the dispenser to the primer arm.

Like CW4W indicated, this "mod" usually makes the primer transfer pretty faultless.

Gtn
06-17-2014, 10:27
oh ok. I thought you meant where the primer arm comes in contact with the brass.
I don't have any problem transferring the primer yet but I'll keep this in mind

Thanks

dkf
06-17-2014, 10:38
So how/where do I raise this up

I machined a .200" thick x 3/4" diameter aluminum spacer out of bar stock and put it under the plastic safety prime bracket that bolts to the press. This spacer and aligning the safety prime with the primer arm on the press fixed the dropped primer issue I was having.

ChrisJn
06-17-2014, 10:42
So how/where do I raise this up

http://londonphotography.biz/washers.jpg

unclebob
06-17-2014, 10:49
Personally I think it depends on the press you own. Some people works better with the washer and some works without the washer. Mine worked without the washer. The brief time I had and loaded on the LCT I had very little trouble with it.
I wish someone would come up with the auto priming of the primers using feed tubes.
Can't find it on Youtube again.

mboylan
06-17-2014, 11:06
Range report
Went to the range and loaded mag up of anything that looked like the primer was high. Nothing happened. Just clicked.
Loaded rest and everyone fired just fine. I think I ran about 60 good ones through.

Now I started looking at the duds more closely. Everyone if them had a S&B headstamp

You didn't swage the primer pocket on the S&B brass.

Gtn
06-18-2014, 12:14
will this work for case gauge?
Amazon.com : Lyman Reloading 45 A.C.P. Pistol Max Cartridge Gauge : Gunsmithing Tools And Accessories : Sports & Outdoors@@AMEPARAM@@http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41%2B3IQiqq9L.@@AMEPARAM@@41%2B3IQiqq9L