Hodgdon Powder data. [Archive] - Glock Talk

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MCNETT
08-25-2003, 20:09
Use this thread to post Hodgdon powder data.

MCNETT
08-25-2003, 20:10
Here is some info from my work with Longshot. Always start 1.0gr lower and work up in .2gr increments until you see pressure signs. (Waters' method):
Starline Brass, CCI 350 primers, 1.26" OAL. 10 shot avg. G20 85F and 5000ft elevation.

135gr Nosler 13.2gr LS - 1542fps
165 GSHP 10.4gr LS - 1356fps
180 GSHP 9.6gr LS - 1294fps
200 XTP 8.2gr LS - 1172fps

These are loads that I have worked up to and are under 37,500psi when I had them tested. I hope this helps!
-Mike

turq
09-22-2003, 06:11
Mr. MCNETT, I got my KKM[5 5/8"]Bbl and a 4lb jug of Longshot Horn 180 HAP bullets loaded 9.0 CCI350 Horn cases They click. Used a rear Protekor leather bag for a rest at 50 yrds 10 shots were sub pie plate easily {I'm still getting used to this g20} Several double touching holes.Empties kick about 15-20' at 4 0'clock. The KKM chamber leaves the fired cases nice and straight. No bulge to speak of I'm happy. Now; a g29?

Oh yeah the HAP recovered from soft rock free dirt about one third mushroomed sorry the measurements are elsewhere. Looks to be a great penatrator bullet.

bdc
11-15-2003, 12:25
Website: http://data.hodgdon.com/main_menu.asp

Grip reduction: http://glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=13213462#post13213462

Training and Targets: www.glockfaq.com www.sportshooter.com www.mytargets.com www.tackdriver.com

DeputyDavid
12-01-2003, 15:16
Does anyone have any data for loading Hodgdon Titegroup with the lighter 10MM bullets? Their website only shows info for the 180 and 200 grain bullets.

Titegroup is one of my favorite powders in 9MM and .40 and I'd like to use it in the 10MM as well.

Dave

spongeman66
12-11-2003, 22:02
It is a very fine 'ball' powder. It is supposed to be faster than H110, and I read somewhere that it was approximately the same as AA #9. With AA#9 you seem to get pretty good velocity, and you can't get too much powder in there to cause too much pressure.?.?.?.
Powder valley has 8lb H108 for $50....I bought it for 458 SOCOM, but it seems to be decent (and safe) for 10mm.
A 10mm casing will hold approximately 23.0 grains of H108 full to the rim.
I was able to fit about 18 grains of H108 behind a Rem 180 FMJ FP bullet. This was an extremely compressed load. The FMJ did not deform, but some bullets COL was springing back to ~1.270+
I was able to fit about 14 grains behind a 200XTP without deforming the bullet. Up to 16.5 grains would fit, but the HP was swaged nearly closed.

Looking at my notes back in May:
Stock G20
WLP primers (Back before I knew about CCI 350s)
COL ~1.260, H108, 200 XTP
2 shots each loading
grains FPS, FPS
10.0 830, 830
10.5 852, 851
11.0 905, 902
11.5 931, 940
12.0 989, 995
12.5 1036, 1010
13.0 1075, 1046
13.5 1118, 1076

Notes from Early July:
G20 w/6" Jarvis
COL ~1.260, H108, 200 XTP
1 Shot each
grains FPS
13.5 1106
14.1 1112
14.5 1145
15.1 1234
15.7 1256
16.1 1271
Both of these sessions, I didn't know about Waters' Head expansion measurements. All I know is that NONE of the brass had smileys!

I have recently re-visited this powder, and I have built, but not shot, up to 18.0 grains behind a Rem FMJ FN. I will report on these loads the next time I break out the chronograph.

Has anybody else played with this powder?

spongeman66
03-20-2004, 23:03
Using the Waters' method these show similar or less head expansion than DoubleTap in MY gun.
Stock G29
New Winchester Brass
Rem 2 1/2 primers (Be careful if using CCI-350s)
Remington 180 FMJ
COL 1.265"
~ 80F
5-shot strings
12.7 HS-7 Lo=1192 Hi=1213 ES=21 A=1202 SD=9
12.9 HS-7 Lo=1209 Hi=1255 ES=46 A=1237 SD=18

Doesn't beat 800X, but not bad.
I did load workups from 10.2 grains. I do NOT recommend HS-7 for downloading. It doesn't seem to burn cleanly at the lower pressures. It leaves powder in the barrel and if you had a tight chamber you might have difficulty.

BTW, if anybody is interested:
17.0 grains of H108 behind a Rem 180 FMJ CCI-350s produce similar head expansion to DoubleTap. From a 5" 1911 produce 1308 FPS. This is an compressed load, and will deform 180 hollow points.

9 and 10 mm Fan
04-05-2004, 18:40
I just got back from shooting 180 gr XTP's over 9.6 gr of Long Shot through my G-20 with a stock length KKM barrel. This is now the most accurate full power load that I have shot with the G-20.

Most of you can shoot better than me, but for what it is worth, shooting off hand this load put 11 of a 20 round group inside a 3 inch circle at 60 feet. The balance of rounds were within a 7 inch circle on the same center. This is definitely a load to try in a G-20.

spongeman66
04-13-2004, 09:45
More HS-7 Data. I am a little disappointed at how dirty it is, and the low velocities I got.


180 Remington FMJFP
New Winchester Brass
Rem 2 1/2 primers
COL 1.265"
~ 55F
9 or 10 shot strings on all barrels

12.9 HS-7
VERY Dirty. Probably needs Magnum primers. Some rounds wouldn't fully
chamber without help in all barrels except the 1911.
Gun/barrel Lo Hi ES Avg SD
G29 1185 1229 44 1206 14
G20 1255 1287 32 1268 8
1911 5" 1265 1330 65 1299 21
G20 Jarvis 6" 1337 1399 62 1371 20

10.8 HS-7
200 XTP
COL 1.280"
Very Dirty. Needs Magnum primers? This load could prossibly be
increased a little. I don't think it will beat 800X though...
Gun/barrel Lo Hi ES Avg SD
G29 1054 1075 21 1064 8
G20 1095 1141 46 1114 12
1911 5" 1117 1188 71 1151 19
G20 Jarvis 6" 1143 1189 46 1170 13


Stay Safe!
Sponge

spongeman66
05-13-2004, 10:59
HS-7 burns cleaner with Magnum primers. Bass Pro didn't have a full 1K of Federal 155s, so I bought 1K of CCI-350s.

~80F
180 Remington FMJ
CCI-350
COL 1.265"
Used Winchester brass
5-shot groups from a G29 Stock Barrel
12.0 HS-7 Lo=1166, Hi=1233, ES=67, A=1207, SD=29
12.2 HS-7 Lo=1173, Hi=1236, ES=63, A=1195, SD=28 -DROP

I would choose 12.0 because 12.2 had a velocity drop, and 12.4 had a slight smiley.

I was running out of powder, so I didn't get to shoot very many rounds with 200XTPs:

200 XTP
CCI-350
COL 1.265"
Used Winchester Brass
3-shot group from a stock G29
10.0 HS-7 Lo=1051, Hi=1060, ES=9, A=1054, SD=4

Stay Safe!
Sponge

Fred Daniel
07-03-2004, 08:13
I just started using Longshot for my G20 and S&W 610. I realy like the powder and it's very clean for me. In the S&W 610 I'm using 10.0 gr Longshot under a 180gr JHP and have no signs of pressure. That is one of the things I have noticed about Longhshot is that it runs lower pressure than most other powders at higher velocities. I'm loading 44mag rounds with it now and think it's great. Going to place an order for an 8lb. jug this week for it at Powdervally.com, possibly 2.

G-20er
08-28-2004, 13:53
Learned something very interesting today while using LongShot Powder. For starters it doesn't even come close to Mikes DoubleTap 200gr. XTP loads. See other post for details.

Also I learned that I can actually get the same velocity out of 8.2 grains as I can get out of 9 grains. Note: 9 grains is not worth the extra pressure. Check out 8.5 grains...the velocity actually is lower than the 8.2 grain load. What the heck over? Keep an eye on the ES also. Looks like I'll keep the 8.2 grain load. I tested it twice because I couldn't believe that the 8.5 was actually slower than the 8.2

G-20 with standard length KKM barrel and 22 pound recoil spring with tungsten guide rod. All bullets fired were 200 grain XTP with a OAL of 1.270. New Starline brass and CCI 350 Mag primers. Note: all brass still flew 10-12 feet to the right. Wish I would have ordered the 24 pound spring.

8.2 grains:

GROUP #3
1) 1185.0 14.8
2) 1167.0 -3.2
3) 1192.0 21.8
4) 1142.0 -28.2 ƒ
5) 1179.0 8.8
6) 1171.0 0.8
7) 1160.0 -10.2
8) 1166.0 -4.2
9) 1171.0 0.8
High: 1192.0
Low: 1142.0
E.S.: 50.0
Ave.: 1170.2
S.D.: 14.4
95%: ±12.0





8.5 grains:

GROUP #14
1) 1121.0 -22.0
2) 1138.0 -5.0
3) 1174.0 31.0
4) 1178.0 35.0
5) 1138.0 -5.0
6) 1145.0 2.0
7) 1151.0 8.0
8) 1118.0 -25.0
9) 1160.0 17.0
10) 1107.0 -36.0
High: 1178.0
Low: 1107.0
E.S.: 71.0
Ave.: 1143.0
S.D.: 23.4
95%: ±19.0





9 grains:

GROUP #7
1) 1183.0 5.6
2) 1156.0 -21.4
3) 1194.0 16.6
4) 1172.0 -5.4
5) 1182.0 4.6
High: 1194.0
Low: 1156.0
E.S.: 38.0
Ave.: 1177.4
S.D.: 14.2
95%: ±18.0



Listed below is further information at 8.5 grains of LongShot. The only thing that I changed was the OAL of loaded rounds.

8.5 with OAL of 1.25:

GROUP #12
1) 1117.0 -7.4
2) 1077.0 -47.4 ƒ
3) 1146.0 21.6
4) 1142.0 17.6
5) 1154.0 29.6
6) 1104.0 -20.4
7) 1132.0 7.6
8) 1123.0 -1.4
9) 1136.0 11.6
10) 1114.0 -10.4
High: 1154.0
Low: 1077.0
E.S.: 77.0
Ave.: 1124.4
S.D.: 22.6
95%: ±18.0




8.5 with OAL of 1.26:

GROUP #13
1) 1170.0 23.8
2) 1132.0 -14.2
3) 1166.0 19.8
4) 1145.0 -1.2
5) 1140.0 -6.2
6) 1151.0 4.8
7) 1130.0 -16.2
8) 1115.0 -31.2 ƒ
9) 1161.0 14.8
10) 1152.0 5.8
High: 1170.0
Low: 1115.0
E.S.: 55.0
Ave.: 1146.2
S.D.: 17.2
95%: ±14.0



8.5 with OAL of 1.270:

GROUP #14
1) 1121.0 -22.0
2) 1138.0 -5.0
3) 1174.0 31.0
4) 1178.0 35.0
5) 1138.0 -5.0
6) 1145.0 2.0
7) 1151.0 8.0
8) 1118.0 -25.0
9) 1160.0 17.0
10) 1107.0 -36.0
High: 1178.0
Low: 1107.0
E.S.: 71.0
Ave.: 1143.0
S.D.: 23.4
95%: ±19.0


By looking at the E.S. this load prefers the 1.260 length.




Below is at 9 grains with slight change in OAL:


9 gr. with OAL of 1.270:

GROUP #7
1) 1183.0 5.6
2) 1156.0 -21.4
3) 1194.0 16.6
4) 1172.0 -5.4
5) 1182.0 4.6
High: 1194.0
Low: 1156.0
E.S.: 38.0
Ave.: 1177.4
S.D.: 14.2
95%: ±18.0



9gr. with OAL of 1.260:

GROUP #8
1) 1169.0 -3.6
2) 1121.0 -51.6 ƒ
3) 1187.0 14.4
4) 1210.0 37.4
5) 1176.0 3.4
High: 1210.0
Low: 1121.0
E.S.: 89.0
Ave.: 1172.6
S.D.: 32.6
95%: ±41.0


As you can see the E.S. got worse with this load as the bullet was seated closer to top of powder charge. Do not recommend this load due to no real advantage in velocity over the 8.2 grain load.

BuffaloBo
09-05-2004, 17:51
G-20er:

Didn't our esteemed colleague Clark over at the "Reloading forum" have some warnings about blowing out a case using Longshot? I thought I read his words in a post of how just a slight variance in charge caused a case blowout? Would Longshot be the Hodgdon powder of choice in 10mm? I ask because I have zero experience using Hodgdon pistol powders.:)

G-20er
09-05-2004, 23:25
I didn't have any signs of over pressure up to 9 grain with the 200 gr. XTP. So I don't think there is a problem to go over max listed. However, I don't see any reason to either. The more powder I added the velocity never really went up. This speed of powder with the heavy 200gr. bullets is at it's limit at 1170-1180 fps out of the standard length barrel.

My experience is that I need to go to a slightly slower burning powder to get a little more velocity. Using max loads of LongShot with the 200gr XTP I still had about .090 gap between top of powder and base of bullet which tells me I can and should go with a slower powder (takes up more room). I prefer 98%-100% load density.

My next powder to try for this 200gr XTP bullet is 13-13.5 gr. of AA#9. I hear it meters well and load density should be perfect. CCI Mag primers will be used. Looking for a goal of 1200 fps.

If your happy with 1170 fps from a 200 gr. projectile, I would say LongShot is a great powder. Meters very well, burns clean with mag primers and is the only choice I would use from Hodgdon in the 10mm with heavy bullets. I hear HS7 burns dirty which is not what I want when I'm shooting 300 rounds in one day at the range with tight clearances on a KKM barrel.

Still can't wait to reload using AA#9.

G-20er
09-19-2004, 21:14
Did more testing with LongShot this past weekend using slightly more crimp to match factory crimp specifications. I was very surprised at the increase in velocity.

G-20 with standard length barrel
Starline Brass
200gr. XTP Bullets
CCI 350 Primers
OAL 1.250
OAT was 65 degrees F.


8.2 grains of LongShot:

GROUP #11
1) 1191.0 -27.2
2) 1234.0 15.8
3) 1213.0 -5.2
4) 1223.0 4.8
5) 1254.0 35.8 ƒ
6) 1197.0 -21.2
7) 1208.0 -10.2
8) 1233.0 14.8
9) 1231.0 12.8
10) 1199.0 -19.2
High: 1254.0
Low: 1191.0
E.S.: 63.0
Ave.: 1218.2
S.D.: 20.0
95%: ±16.0

BuffaloBo
09-23-2004, 16:57
As promised, I gathered some data (yawn) using Hodgdon Universal Clays.

Setup was:
G20 using KKM 5" barrel
CCI Standard Large Primers
Winchester nickel brass
COL was 1.25"

180 gr FMJ Winchester

(5.8 gr Universal) -10% max (as per Hodgdon)
7 shot sample:
Avg: 1014
Std Dev: 24
High: 1053
Low: 989

(6.4 gr Universal) max (as per Hodgdon)
7 shot sample:
Avg: 1123
Std Dev: 6
High: 1128
Low: 1113






200 gr FMJ/FP Hornady

(5.3 gr Universal) -10% max (as per Hodgdon)
7 shot sample:
Avg: 963
Std Dev: 18
High: 989
Low: 932

(5.9 gr Universal) max (as per Hodgdon)
7 shot sample:
Avg: 1031
Std Dev: 13
High: 1053
Low: 1017

(6.4 gr Universal) +10% max (as per Hodgdon)
7 shot sample:
Avg: 1105
Std Dev: 13
High: 1053
Low: 1017







Psst! I'm gonna sneak in some 40 data here also.


Setup was:
G20 using Federal barrel @ standard length
CCI Standard Small Primers
Federal brass
COL was 1.125"


180 gr FMJ Winchester

(5.2 gr Universal) -10% max (as per Hodgdon)
7 shot sample:
Avg: 1014
Std Dev: 19
High: 1041
Low: 993


(5.8 gr Universal) max (as per Hodgdon)
Avg: 1092
Std Dev: 17
High: 1114
Low: 1064

(6.2 gr Universal) +10% max (as per Hodgdon)
Avg: 1114
Std Dev: 15
High: 1135
Low: 1093



200 gr FMJ/FP Hornady

(4.2 gr Universal) -10% max (as per Hodgdon)
Avg: 831
Std Dev: 23
High: 863
Low: 797

(4.7 gr Universal) max (as per Hodgdon)
Avg: 936
Std Dev: 18
High: 956
Low: 900


Some observations:

I didn't expect much from this powder and frankly I wasn't disappointed! In some samples, pressure signs manifesting themselves in "smiley's" came on quite early. So, I had to scrub a few samples for safety.

The 10mm cartridge was tolerant with this powder, but it was not the case for .40. For the 180 gr 40 SW, don't look beyond about 1050 fps, or else you're flirting with bad pressure signs. The numbers for 200 gr 40SW are too low for serious velocities, but showed no signs of pressure either.

I've heard it said that Universal was the answer to the aged and decrepid Alliant Unique. To be honest, I didn't notice any cleaner burning and certainly didn't notice better velocities with Universal. To its credit, it does meter somewhat better than Unique, though.

Well, my results show that this powder is well suited as a mild plinking powder as it was intended to be. I have been surprised with certain other powders with supposedly similiar burning speeds and have exploited them with no signs of sacrificing safety.

G-20er
09-23-2004, 22:05
oh my gosh...I read the entire post...not that I gave a care about the cheasy powder your wasting your time with, I was hoping to hear some good stories. This post is way to noraml...is this your other personality? It has got to be....hello, BuffaloBo where did you go.


;f


Can't you see your going the wrong direction on the powder burn speed chart? I'm still curious as of what powder is your favorite and why.

BuffaloBo
09-24-2004, 17:29
Originally posted by G-20er
oh my gosh...I read the entire post...not that I gave a care about the cheasy powder your wasting your time with, I was hoping to hear some good stories. This post is way to noraml...is this your other personality? It has got to be....hello, BuffaloBo where did you go.


;f


Can't you see your going the wrong direction on the powder burn speed chart? I'm still curious as of what powder is your favorite and why.

Well, the reason why I checked this powder out is not to exclusively see what it can do in 10mm, but to see what it can do in a variety of calibers. I shoot a total of 5 pistol calibers. I check out powders not primarily for raw speed, but more so for versatility, or in this case "Universal-ity" (pun intended).

It is argued that Universal is the heir apparent of the "lowly" Unique. Since they are similiar, I thougth to see how they compare. I wasn't straying but a tiny bit the other way of the burn rate chart. I hope you don't think that I'd be crazy enough to push this powder to extreme limits to show that it's "possible". If YOU don't feel comfortable in pushing where it seems possible, I certainly won't call you a wuss.;)

No, I don't have another personality. I believe, however, that certain powders that I've worked with previously had the ability to be pushed farther than what are listed by conservative compilers of data.

What kind of stories were you hoping to hear, anyway? I consider myself to be a thorough and safety conscious field tester. I examine EVERY case thrown from a pistol for signs of trouble. BTW, I know that you're being humorous. :)

My favorite powder? -Don't have just one. Included among them are (not in any particular order): Blue Dot, Winchester Super Field, AA#7, Unique, and Winchester 231. If I get a single powder to perform well in at least 3 cartridges, I am well pleased. All of the above, with the special exception of W231, which is relegated to low pressure plinkers for powder puff 40's and 38 specials, leave me feeling well pleased.

If I was to be given the choice of a single powder to use, I'd give the nod to either Unique, or then to WSF.

Oh, and by the way, to anyone who may be interested, MY results show that Unique trounces Universal.;f ;a

G-20er
09-29-2004, 13:51
BuffaloBo,

What does Unique or WSF powder have over the 5 powders I listed as my favorites? I Would like to hear why these are your top two choices for the 10mm?

BuffaloBo
09-29-2004, 18:05
I thought I made myself clear in my previous post?:)

I honestly couldn't contrast or compare your five choices with anything I've used because I've never used any of your choices.

My choices come down to a compromise between versatility and velocity.

In 9m using a 124 Gold Dot:

Unique: 1180 fps @ 6.0 gr
WSF: 1260 fps @ 6.2 gr


In 40 using a 180 gr FMJ:

Unique: 1107 fps @ 6.9 gr
WSF: 1086 fps @ 6.6 gr


In 357 Sig using a 124 Gold Dot:

Unique: 1401 fps @ 8.0 gr
WSF: 1418 fps @ 8.4 gr


Finally, my results for 10mm are recorded in this forum for inspection.

As you can see, these are very good numbers. They may not be the absoulute TOP numbers to be had, but it shows you that these 2 powders are capable of excellent results.

Remember, I also mentioned Blue Dot and AA#7 as favorites also. Blue Dot is excellent in all except 9mm. AA#7 has given extraordinary results in all of the above, with the exception of 2 little things. First, it requires more charge than any other powder I've used for similiar effect. Second, I noticed slight "smilies" when I started to push the 40's.

Won't you share your reasonings with us?:)

Glockadict
08-16-2005, 15:34
I was wondering if anyone had load data for Longshot with 155Gr bullets?

patmandu
09-26-2005, 22:41
Glockadict: I worked up a load with Longshot for 155 gr Rainier RN (copper plated) with 12.4 gr of Longshot, OAL 1.260, 1450 FPS.

I've fired hundreds of them with no malfunctions at all. It's close to a full-house load with no flat primers, case bulges or other over-pressure signs. Fired in my full size Ported Witness with fully supported barrel & 22# Wolff recoil spring. I recommend back down 10% and work up. Be careful with other pistols with unsupported barrels.

By the way, are Glock 10mms built like the 40 S&Ws with weak support at the ramp? I fired one at the range and it felt real nice, but I just wondered about the ramp cut. I noticed a lot of guys are using KKM aftermarket barrels.

Good shooting, guys

patmandu

Glockadict
12-11-2005, 08:02
I have not been in here for a little while, thanks for the help. I'm going to load some of these today. I have a KKM for my G20 too. I notice you are from OKC also. Do you shoot at H & H?

patmandu
12-15-2005, 19:17
Hey Glock addict: Yes I am in OKC too. I sometimes shoot at H&H, but I sometimes shoot outside at the Canadian Valley Ranges out off I-40 near Banner Road (toward El Reno) I like shooting outside. It is a more relaxed invironment w/o all the cool cocked and locked dudes running around running the show. I can set up my chronograph or whatever I want. How can you tell anything about your loads if you can't clock them sometimes? Also, I just like the outdoors. I don't have to breathe the lead and smoke. I alos have an agreement with a friend who has a farm with a shooting range if I trade out by doing some upgrades to their range setup. New wood on the back stops, etc. I plan to build some benches and other things for her. Sorry, I can't take any visitors (yet) though. Darn.

Let me know how you like the loads with the Longshot powder. I get a kick out of that load. It could go hotter, as I have never gone to the point of bulges or flat primers with it, but it already hurts my hand and I decided that it's battering my Witness as it is. I am about to work up another one with a 185 gr. bullet. I just have to find the time. I wish I lived on a farm like another buddy of mine. He loads about 3 rounds and goes outside and just fires them. He knows immediately if they are good or not and then goes back in and improves the load. It must be great to do it like that.

Maybe we can meet out on Banner Road sometime. Let me know if you need directions to it.

be cool!

-pat (aka patman or patmandu)
patcawyer@cox.net

Glockadict
03-15-2006, 08:33
I tried the loads you posted, and they are potent. I was wondering what primer you used? I used CCI 350 primers, and 12.4gr is the MAX load for me. I might back off to 12.3. I have not got a chance to chrono it yet.

patmandu
03-16-2006, 19:59
Glock Addict: I also use the CCI 350 primers. I agree that the load doesn't need to be boosted any more. It might be safe to do so, but it is pretty hot like it is. I have worked up loads with other calibers and felt the need to push them until I found the limit and then backed off (38 super and 41 AE), and I feel the 10mm brass could safely handle more pressure, but I am content with it at the 12.4 gr load. I recommend anyone back off to 11.5 gr and then work up .2 grains at a time watching for over pressure signs. I still haven't worked on the 185 and 200 gr loads yet, but I will when I have time. I wish my work wasn't so demanding, I would do it tomorrow. I'm glad you tried this load. I think it will chrono to 1400 to 1450 fps in most guns. This is a real full house 10mm load and I think it is safe. I started using Hodgdon Longshot powder when I saw the little free Hodgdon load book and it listed loads for 40 S&W and on the list the Longshot surpassed the other powders by 200+ fps (if I remember correctly). I use it in several calibers now. It is very accurate.

Nice to hear from you again.

Pat in OKC

grendelbane
01-03-2007, 18:28
During vacation I got to test fire some of my Longshot loads, and I was well pleased. I haven't done a lot of chrono testing, but it seems I can equal or surpass my Power Pistol loads, with less pressure. Oh yes!, much less flash also.

Didn't do much in the way of accuracy testing either, but it does seem to shoot to point of aim, (very important when using fixed sights), and also seems to shoot fairly clean.

I believe 2007 will be the year for 10mm and Longshot experimentation.:banana: Now if I could just find that empty brass.

freakshow10mm
03-13-2007, 12:16
Anyone using HS6?

freakshow10mm
03-26-2007, 13:22
From 4" 1911

175gr SWC
8.4gr HS6
WLP 1.260
Starting load
Est. 1098fps

175gr SWC
8.9gr HS6
WLP 1.260
.5gr under max
Est. 1163fps

No leading with either load. Cleaned easily with Hoppe's #9.

freakshow10mm
04-02-2007, 09:08
Flattened primers on that second load with 8.9gr HS6. Load was .5gr under max. Use with caution.

MakeMineA10mm
04-02-2007, 20:11
Years ago, I decided to mess with HS-6 in the 10. After a lot of study, I decided that HS-6 SHOULD have the perfect burning rate for the 10mm.

Then, I searched through all the loading manuals and found that NONE of them gave as heavy a load or velocity, as what I thought they should give, considering how HS-6 compared to other similar powders. I tried a few test loads and found some similar stuff to you.

Bottom line is that HS-6 will give about 80% of the performance of other powders, and does not live up to anticipated expectations considering its location in the burning rate chart. It's just one of those quirky situations where it doesn't work out...

HS-7 on the other hand... :thumbsup:

freakshow10mm
04-03-2007, 08:33
I'm picking up Longshot while in Green Bay this weekend. I'm going to burn up the rest of the HS6 in 45 Auto.

brandon3155
10-02-2008, 23:36
I've been loading 165gr plated bullets with 9.2gr of longshot, OAL 1.26" with winchester WLP primers, I cant see any deformation but can feel the case head is bulged while resizing.

would it be safe to go up to 9.9 grains or do i really need to work up to it?

I am using an autodisk and that is the only jump without weighing every charge.

or should I load 10 at 9.5gr, 10 at 9.7gr, and 10 at 9.9gr?

What is the water's method or recognizing overpressure?

Farther up, there is a load of 10.2gr of LS, but it is a different primer, I may have answered my own question, but if anyone has interjections to add, they're welcome!

Thanks.

Bringsteen
04-27-2009, 07:25
I have already posted this, but I wanted to put it in the Hodgdon Powder data sticky so that people would know where to look.

THESE DATA ARE NOT FROM A RELOADING GUIDE. YOU ASSUME ALL RESPONSIBILITY CONCERNING YOUR USE OF THESE DATA.

After much theorizing, I decided to load Hodgdon Lil’Gun in the 10mm. My starting loads were based on a number of factors:
--maximum working pressure for the 10mm (which, at 37,500, is lower in practice than some people realize);
--Hodgdon’s various Lil’Gun loads for the .327 Federal, .38 Super, and .357 Magnum;
--total grain capacities of the 10mm and the above calibers; and,
--my experience with the 10mm’s slowest recommended powder, Accurate #9.

These factors do not add up to an ability to perfectly predict the outcome. But I am happy to note that not only was I able to complete the testing safely, but I came up with some rather promising results.

Components:
--Hornady 180 grain XTP bullets;
--New Starline brass;
--CCI 350 Magnum Pistol Primers.

Everything I read about Lil’Gun indicated that it requires a magnum primer and a heavy crimp. In preparing these loads, I seated and lightly crimped the bullets with a conventional seating/crimping die, then immediately put a heavy-duty crimp on them with a Lee Crimp die. I did the initial crimp before the heavy-duty crimp because some of the charges were slightly compressed. Incidentally, while Hodgdon has warned in the past that Lil’Gun should not be compressed, in the 2009 Hodgdon reloading manual Hodgdon published a compressed Lil’Gun load for the .38 Super. I loaded all cartridges to just under 1.260".

As a baseline, I fired two strings of high-power Accurate #9 loads on the same day as the Lil'Gun loads. All strings were fired in the same pistol, my Colt Delta Elite Gold Cup. I used a 24 pound Wolf recoil spring, coupled with the original recoil spring plug, which incorporates a smaller, secondary spring. My Delta Elite does not have a fully-supported chamber.


Accurate #9, 15 grains
_ 1)_1331.0_ -32.6 f
_ 2)_1366.0_ 2.4
_ 3)_1370.0_ 6.4
_ 4)_1373.0_ 9.4
_ 5)_1365.0_ 1.4
_ 6)_1354.0_ -9.6
_ 7)_1360.0_ -3.6
_ 8)_1368.0_ 4.4
_ 9)_1370.0_ 6.4
_ 10)_1379.0_ 15.4

__ High:_1379.0
__ Low:_1331.0
__ E.S.:_ 48.0
__ Ave.:_1363.6
__ S.D.:_ 13.3
__ 95%:_ ±10.0


Accurate #9, 15.5 grains
_ 1)_1393.0_ -7.9
_ 2)_1417.0_ 16.1
_ 3)_1398.0_ -2.9
_ 4)_1395.0_ -5.9
_ 5)_1405.0_ 4.1
_ 6)_1410.0_ 9.1
_ 7)_1399.0_ -1.9
_ 8)_1413.0_ 12.1
_ 9)_1396.0_ -4.9
_ 10)_1383.0_ -17.9

__ High:_1417.0
__ Low:_1383.0
__ E.S.:_ 34.0
__ Ave.:_1400.9
__ S.D.:_ 10.3
__ 95%:_ ±7.8

Hodgdon Lil’Gun, 15 grains
_ 1)_1219.0_ -19.8
_ 2)_1217.0_ -21.8
_ 3)_1260.0_ 21.2
_ 4)_1256.0_ 17.2
_ 5)_1265.0_ 26.2
_ 6)_1247.0_ 8.2
_ 7)_1242.0_ 3.2
_ 8)_1224.0_ -14.8
_ 9)_1233.0_ -5.8
_ 10)_1225.0_ -13.8

__ High:_1265.0
__ Low:_1217.0
__ E.S.:_ 48.0
__ Ave.:_1238.8
__ S.D.:_ 17.7
__ 95%:_ ±13.4

Hodgdon Lil’Gun, 15.5 grains
_ 1)_1250.0_ -5.3
_ 2)_1254.0_ -1.3
_ 3)_1267.0_ 11.7
_ 4)_1227.0_ -28.3
_ 5)_1286.0_ 30.7
_ 6)_1272.0_ 16.7
_ 7)_1266.0_ 10.7
_ 8)_1216.0_ -39.3
_ 9)_1238.0_ -17.3
_ 10)_1277.0_ 21.7

__ High:_1286.0
__ Low:_1216.0
__ E.S.:_ 70.0
__ Ave.:_1255.3
__ S.D.:_ 22.7
__ 95%:_ ±17.1

Hodgdon Lil’Gun, 16 grains
_ 1)_1282.0_ -4.5
_ 2)_1314.0_ 27.5
_ 3)_1282.0_ -4.5
_ 4)_1285.0_ -1.5
_ 5)_1304.0_ 17.5
_ 6)_1298.0_ 11.5
_ 7)_1253.0_ -33.5
_ 8)_1268.0_ -18.5
_ 9)_1279.0_ -7.5
_ 10)_1300.0_ 13.5

__ High:_1314.0
__ Low:_1253.0
__ E.S.:_ 61.0
__ Ave.:_1286.5
__ S.D.:_ 18.1
__ 95%:_ ±13.7

Hodgdon Lil’Gun, 16.5 grains
_ 1)_1246.0_ -47.7
_ 2)_1323.0_ 29.3
_ 3)_1286.0_ -7.7
_ 4)_1310.0_ 16.3
_ 5)_1320.0_ 26.3
_ 6)_1297.0_ 3.3
_ 7)_1286.0_ -7.7
_ 8)_1282.0_ -11.7
_ 9)_1273.0_ -20.7
_ 10)_1314.0_ 20.3

__ High:_1323.0
__ Low:_1246.0
__ E.S.:_ 77.0
__ Ave.:_1293.7
__ S.D.:_ 24.0
__ 95%:_ ±18.1


These results are quite promising. The fired brass and primers looked very healthy. As noted earlier, I fired these in a pistol without a fully-supported chamber. While I often see “Glocksmiles” (even though it is a Colt) when shooting high-power 800-X loads, there were none to be found from the Lil’Gun loads. An average of 1293 is nothing to write home about, particularly considering the 1400 fps average in the 15.5 grain Accurate #9 load. But the fact is that Lil’Gun works in the 10mm! I don’t have time right now, but I am interested in moving up .5 grain to 1 grain.

I hope that this information is valuable.

Bringsteen
05-13-2009, 14:23
As with my earlier post, I have already posted this, but I wanted to make sure that it was placed in a sticky.

The new data are interesting and a little confusing. Once again, I used 180 grain Hornady XTP's, new brass, handloaded each charge, and put a heavy crimp on the cases. As you can see, the 17 grain charges were slightly faster than the 17.5 grain charges.


Hodgdon Lil’Gun, 17.0 grains
_ 1)_1409.0_ 13.3
_ 2)_1402.0_ 6.3
_ 3)_1434.0_ 38.3
_ 4)_1371.0_ -24.7
_ 5)_1408.0_ 12.3
_ 6)_1397.0_ 1.3
_ 7)_1419.0_ 23.3
_ 8)_1373.0_ -22.7
_ 9)_1378.0_ -17.7
_ 10)_1366.0_ -29.7

__ High:_1434.0
__ Low:_1366.0
__ E.S.:_ 68.0
__ Ave.:_1395.7
__ S.D.:_ 22.9
__ 95%:_ ±17.3

Hodgdon Lil’Gun, 17.5 grains
_ 1)_1351.0_ -37.8
_ 2)_1399.0_ 10.2
_ 3)_1428.0_ 39.2
_ 4)_1414.0_ 25.2
_ 5)_1392.0_ 3.2
_ 6)_1337.0_ -51.8
_ 7)_1383.0_ -5.8
_ 8)_1381.0_ -7.8
_ 9)_1414.0_ 25.2
_ 10)_1390.0_ 0.2

__ High:_1428.0
__ Low:_1337.0
__ E.S.:_ 91.0
__ Ave.:_1388.8
__ S.D.:_ 29.8
__ 95%:_ ±24.3


What is frustrating is that the highest average velocity (1395.7) is actually lower than the highest average velocity using Accurate #9 (1400.9). But the maximum velocity with the Lil'Gun loads was higher (1434) than the #9 loads (1417). I will probably experiment with using a slightly lighter crimp and dropping down by a few tenths of a grain. It may be that compressing Lil'Gun in the 10mm doesn't do any good. Compression loads work for some powder/cartridge combinations, and not for others. I will also try to load them just a little bit longer, but the need for reliability dictates that I only stretch them by a few thousands of an inch, so it may not make any difference.

SDGlock23
05-20-2009, 16:07
Very interesting data indeed. 180g @ 1400 fps ain't no slouch!

Bringsteen
05-26-2009, 16:41
Just placing this in the sticky.

Here are some more data for Hodgdon Lil'Gun in the 10mm. For this set of tests, my protocol was essentially the same: new Starline brass, CCI 350 magnum primers, hand weigh each charge, et cetera. I tested some slightly different powder charges and used both standard and heavy crimps. I also fired a string through my Smith & Wesson 610. Some of the strings do not include 10 shots because I got some sunlight-related error readings.

Hodgdon Lil'Gun, 17 grains, Standard Crimp
1) 1427.0
2) 1371.0
3) 1345.0
4) 1348.0
5) 1360.0
6) 1358.0
7) 1347.0
8) 1369.0

High: 1427.0
Low: 1345.0
E.S.: 82.0
Ave.: 1365.6
S.D.: 26.7
95%: ±23.9

Hodgdon Lil'Gun, 17 grains, Heavy Crimp
1) 1355.0
2) 1366.0
3) 1325.0
4) 1320.0
5) 1355.0
6) 1347.0
7) 1361.0
8) 1348.0
9) 1341.0
10) 1308.0

High: 1366.0
Low: 1308.0
E.S.: 58.0
Ave.: 1342.6
S.D.: 19.0
95%: ±14.3

Hodgdon Lil'Gun, 16.8 grains, Standard Crimp
1) 1397.0
2) 1362.0
3) 1357.0
4) 1364.0
5) 1383.0
6) 1341.0
7) 1351.0
8) 1342.0

High: 1397.0
Low: 1341.0
E.S.: 56.0
Ave.: 1362.13
S.D.: 19.48

Hodgdon Lil'Gun, 16.8 grains, Heavy Crimp
1) 1358.0
2) 1314.0
3) 1350.0
4) 1327.0
5) 1320.0
6) 1333.0
7) 1315.0
8) 1366.0
9) 1316.0
10) 1323.0

High: 1366.0
Low: 1314.0
E.S.: 52.0
Ave.: 1332.2
S.D.: 19.1
95%: ±14.4

Hodgdon Lil'Gun, 17 grains, Heavy Crimp, Smith & Wesson 610
1) 1448.0
2) 1432.0
3) 1518.0
4) 1418.0
5) 1363.0
6) 1421.0

High: 1518.0
Low: 1363.0
E.S.: 155.0
Ave.: 1433.33
S.D.: 50.44


Ultimately, I am disappointed with Lil'Gun in the 10mm. Of course, I never expected world-shattering velocities. But I was hopeful that I would see very good velocities with good shot-to-shot velocity consistency. Unfortunately, the consistency is terrible. Lil'Gun is the superstar in the .357 Magnum and is great in many magnum cartridges. It just doesn't look like the right propellant for the 10mm. It may be possible to get great velocities and consistency in the Smith & Wesson 610 by loading the cartridges longer than 1.260". But in the automatics, you usually can't do that and expect reliability.

If someone has success with Lil'Gun in the 10mm, or even an interesting theory about what to try, please post it.

SDGlock23
06-02-2009, 14:09
Hodgdon Longshot, 9.7grs
175gr Winchester Silvertip HP
Starline Nickle 1.260" Fed 150

Stock Glock 20
85 degrees with skin melting humidity
Shooting Chrony F-1

Avg= 1365 fps - 724 ft-lbs

Ever so slight Glock belly, nothing abnormal at all. This load frags like mad when fired into water jugs. Jacketing was found in 2nd and 3rd jugs, 3 jug penetration.

Waffentomas
01-14-2010, 14:51
10.2gr of Longshot, under a Nosler 170gr JHP (no longer made).

New Nickle RP brass
WLP
Wilson Combat CQB
Rainy and 45 degrees, 1200ft elevation.

Average 1392 fps.

A pretty hot load, with 5 of 10 casings bulging/smiling. Primers are pretty flat. I would not recommend this load, as the over-pressure signs are significant. Probably 10gr is tops, 9.8 for a Glock stock barrelled gun.

SDGlock23
04-16-2010, 07:56
Glock 20
9.5grs Longshot, 180gr Precision Delta FMJ
New Starline brass
1.260"
Fed LP
roughly 80 degrees outside

5 shot average: 1260 FPS / 635 Ft-lbs

HAMMERHEAD
08-17-2010, 19:41
My first light practice load.
Stock G-20
165 Rainier plated TC/FP
1.272" COL
R-P nickel brass/CCI 300 primers
5.3 grains Titegroup
1,001 fps.
Two failures to extract-slow slide velocity I'm sure.
Excellent accuracy though, puts my G-21 to shame.
My chrono (Shooting Chrony F-1) seems to read consistently about 50-75 fps fast, for example CCI Blazer 200 clocked 1,050, which is faster than most results I've seen from a stock G-20, other calibers are the same way.
I'll edit this post as I work this load up, but I couldn't find any Titegroup data for the 165's, so I thought I would post.

Meathead9
08-17-2010, 22:07
Hodgdon Longshot
DT 200gr WFNGC
Starline Brass
CCI300 Primers
1.255 OAL
6" LWD Barrel
Wolff 22# Spring
88* F, Sea Level

8.0gr:
1210
1235
1228
1236
1242
Average: 1230
ES: 32

8.2gr:
1244
1246
1250
1250
1247
Average: 1247
ES: 6

8.4gr:
1217
1243
1254
1246
1262
Average: 1244
ES: 45

I am really happy with the consistency of the 8.2gr load, which is Hodgdon's listed max. I have 2k WLP's on the way, and I may pick up some CCI350's to see if that will help kick up my velocities. With a 1247fps average for a 200gr bullet, there's nothing really to complain about. But as always, I want more...

I am pretty happy that 8.2gr of Longshot load beats DT's factory loaded 200gr WFNGC's out of my gun. Here's what DT's ammo did out of my G20L the same day:

1199, 1220, 1173, 1227, 1216
Average: 1207
ES: 54

Taterhead
08-19-2010, 21:45
Nice report. Thank you for the nice information. Longshot has been one of those powders I have never gotten around to. Yet more evidence that I should pick up a can.

Meathead9
08-25-2010, 17:14
Here's some more Longshot data, this time with Mag Primers.

Hodgdon Longshot
DT 200gr WFNGC
Starline Brass
CCI350 Primers
1.26 OAL
6" LWD Barrel
Wolff 22# Spring
85* F, Sea Level

8.0gr Longshot/CCI350:
1247
1238
1245
1239
1230
Ave: 1240
ES: 17

8.2gr Longshot/CCI350
1262
1249
1229
1250
1255
Ave: 1249
ES: 33

8.4gr Longshot/CCI350
1243
1285
1250
1267
1278
Ave: 1264
ES: 42

Primers are starting to look more flat, but I think there's still room to grow. I'm still hoping I can average 1300fps with the 200gr WFNGC's out of my G20L with good precision.

wavesport
11-10-2010, 12:00
brand new to 10mm reloading, just tried out my new LWD G20 longslide with 6" KKM barrel for the first time.

more details:
22# Wolff recoil spring.
virgin starline; 180gr XTP @ 1.260 OAL; CCI 350; Lee FCD 1/2 turn
each powder load trickled/weighed by hand
indoor range, CED M2 chronograph with infrared lights 10ft from muzzle.


LONGSHOT
9.2gr:
1339 1345 1334 1343 1333
(avg 1339fps; ES 12; SD 5; 717 ft-lbs)

9.5gr:
1373 1387 1366 1372 1388 1386 1387 1381 13374
(avg 1379fps; ES 22; SD 8; 761 ft-lbs)

9.7gr:
1398 1397 1416 1401 1398 1392 1404 1383 1408
(avg 1400fps; ES 33; SD 9; 782 ft-lbs)


Im pretty happy with these results. from reading prior posts i wasnt expecting velocities this high. also tested some rounds with blue dot and 800x. im most impressed with 800x :)

gator378
11-25-2010, 17:34
I didn't have any signs of over pressure up to 9 grain with the 200 gr. XTP. So I don't think there is a problem to go over max listed. However, I don't see any reason to either. The more powder I added the velocity never really went up. This speed of powder with the heavy 200gr. bullets is at it's limit at 1170-1180 fps out of the standard length barrel.

My experience is that I need to go to a slightly slower burning powder to get a little more velocity. Using max loads of LongShot with the 200gr XTP I still had about .090 gap between top of powder and base of bullet which tells me I can and should go with a slower powder (takes up more room). I prefer 98%-100% load density.

My next powder to try for this 200gr XTP bullet is 13-13.5 gr. of AA#9. I hear it meters well and load density should be perfect. CCI Mag primers will be used. Looking for a goal of 1200 fps.

If your happy with 1170 fps from a 200 gr. projectile, I would say LongShot is a great powder. Meters very well, burns clean with mag primers and is the only choice I would use from Hodgdon in the 10mm with heavy bullets. I hear HS7 burns dirty which is not what I want when I'm shooting 300 rounds in one day at the range with tight clearances on a KKM barrel.

Still can't wait to reload using AA#9.
The only powder I use for the G20 with the 200 grain XTP is AA#9 I would start with 12.5 grains. I backed off from 13.0 and 13.5. 12.5 grains seems the best bang for the powder. I did not find much velocity improvement over 12.5 of AA"9 in a Barstow barrel.

whenmonkeysfly
12-24-2010, 23:51
brand new to 10mm reloading, just tried out my new LWD G20 longslide with 6" KKM barrel for the first time.

more details:
22# Wolff recoil spring.
virgin starline; 180gr XTP @ 1.260 OAL; CCI 350; Lee FCD 1/2 turn
each powder load trickled/weighed by hand
indoor range, CED M2 chronograph with infrared lights 10ft from muzzle.


LONGSHOT
9.2gr:
1339 1345 1334 1343 1333
(avg 1339fps; ES 12; SD 5; 717 ft-lbs)

9.5gr:
1373 1387 1366 1372 1388 1386 1387 1381 13374
(avg 1379fps; ES 22; SD 8; 761 ft-lbs)

9.7gr:
1398 1397 1416 1401 1398 1392 1404 1383 1408
(avg 1400fps; ES 33; SD 9; 782 ft-lbs)


Im pretty happy with these results. from reading prior posts i wasnt expecting velocities this high. also tested some rounds with blue dot and 800x. im most impressed with 800x :)


Merry Christmas! Nice report Wavesport! I've got some 9.6 & 9.8 grains Longshot, loaded in new Starline Brass, 1.258 OAL, CCI 350's and Speer 180 TMJ's to shoot either today or tomorrow. Loaded these on my NEW XL650 Dillon :) (thanks to my wife!) I'll post data soon.

whenmonkeysfly
12-26-2010, 01:12
~9.6 Grains Hodgdon Longshot (Dillon XL650 dropped charges - charges plus 0.2 grains in some cases or 9.8 grains)

Speer 180 Grain TMJ
New Starline Brass
CCI350 Primers
1.26 OAL
6" Lone Wolf Barrel
Wolff 22# Spring
70F, Sea Level

Total Strings = 3

String 1
1) 1386.0 -8.8
2) 1404.0 9.2
3) 1398.0 3.2
4) 1403.0 8.2
5) 1383.0 -11.8

High: 1404.0
Low: 1383.0
E.S.: 21.0
Ave.: 1394.8
S.D.: 9.7
95%: ±13.5

String 2
1) 1408.0 16.6
2) 1406.0 14.6
3) 1392.0 0.6
4) 1381.0 -10.4
5) 1370.0 -21.4

High: 1408.0
Low: 1370.0
E.S.: 38.0
Ave.: 1391.4
S.D.: 16.2
95%: ±22.5

String 3
1) 1402.0 -0.4
2) 1391.0 -11.4
3) 1380.0 -22.4
4) 1403.0 0.6
5) 1436.0 33.6

High: 1436.0
Low: 1380.0
E.S.: 56.0
Ave.: 1402.4
S.D.: 21.0
95%: ±29.1

(End Of Data)

Seeing significant high pressure signs - smiles, flattened primers and headstamps. Loaded over 100 of these on my Dillon, but after shooting about 20 rounds, I decided brass was looking too stressed. I'm going to back down to 8.0/8.2 grains of Longshot with same bullet, primers, brass OAL etc. next. I'm hoping to achieve ~1250 - 1300fps with a 180 grain TMJ bullet.

whenmonkeysfly
12-29-2010, 14:18
Hodgdon Longshot
Speer 180 Grain TC FMJ
New Starline Brass
CCI-350 Primers
1.255 OAL
6" LWD Barrel
Wolff 22# Spring
60F, Sea Level

String 1 - (9.6 Grains of Hodgdon Longshot)
1) 1403.0 4.4
2) 1392.0 -6.6
3) 1388.0 -10.6
4) 1408.0 9.4
5) 1402.0 3.4

High: 1408.0
Low: 1388.0
E.S.: 20.0
Ave.: 1398.6
S.D.: 8.3
95%: ±11.5

String 2 - (8.2 Grains of Hodgdon Longshot)
1) 1198.0 -24.6
2) 1231.0 8.4
3) 1199.0 -23.6
4) 1206.0 -16.6
5) 1279.0 56.4

High: 1279.0
Low: 1198.0
E.S.: 81.0
Ave.: 1222.6
S.D.: 34.2
95%: ±47.5

String 3 - (8.2 Grains of Hodgdon Longshot)
1) 1242.0 -15.8
2) 1282.0 24.2
3) 1233.0 -24.8
4) 1274.0 16.2

High: 1282.0
Low: 1233.0
E.S.: 49.0
Ave.: 1257.8
S.D.: 23.9
95%: ±43.9

String 4 - (8.2 Grains of Hodgdon Longshot)
1) 1242.0 -2.8
2) 1219.0 -25.8
3) 1235.0 -9.8
4) 1240.0 -4.8
5) 1288.0 43.2

High: 1288.0
Low: 1219.0
E.S.: 69.0
Ave.: 1244.8
S.D.: 25.8
95%: ±35.8

String 5 - (8.2 Grains of Hodgdon Longshot)
1) 1269.0 19.7
2) 1213.0 -36.3
3) 1266.0 16.7

High: 1269.0
Low: 1213.0
E.S.: 56.0
Ave.: 1249.3
S.D.: 31.5
95%: ±95.8

String 6 - (9.6 Grains of Hodgdon Longshot)
1) 1407.0 5.6
2) 1393.0 -8.4
3) 1408.0 6.6
4) 1411.0 9.6
5) 1395.0 -6.4
6) 1399.0 -2.4
7) 1398.0 -3.4
8) 1403.0 1.6
9) 1399.0 -2.4

High: 1411.0
Low: 1393.0
E.S.: 18.0
Ave.: 1401.4
S.D.: 6.2
95%: ±5.1


I found 9.6 Grains of Longshot to be pushing what I'm comfortable with loading in my 10mm Glock 20. Smiles with primers and headstamps flattening. Nice velocities for a 180 Grain bullet, but IMHO seems to be at case limits - those cases are no longer in the reloading pile. The 8.2 grains of Longshot seemed to perform about as expected. I'd like to get 1250~1300fps, so an increase to 8.4 grains may be the ticket. Cases looked fine with the 8.2 grains of Longshot and appear to have room to grow.

These loads were done on my Dillon XL-650. Velocities obtained from a CED M2 Chronograph with Infrared Screens.

Hope this data is useful. Have a Happy and Safe New Year!

glascowangus
04-12-2011, 15:16
Picked up some longshot and would like to do a little reloading while awaiting new barrel, spring, etc.. Out of a stock Glock 20 what would be the starting loads for 155 XTP and 180XTP using longshot. Experienced reloader and will take any and all advise at my own risk. Many thanx

whenmonkeysfly
05-08-2011, 17:59
Here is some info from my work with Longshot. Always start 1.0gr lower and work up in .2gr increments until you see pressure signs. (Waters' method):
Starline Brass, CCI 350 primers, 1.26" OAL. 10 shot avg. G20 85F and 5000ft elevation.

135gr Nosler 13.2gr LS - 1542fps
165 GSHP 10.4gr LS - 1356fps
180 GSHP 9.6gr LS - 1294fps
200 XTP 8.2gr LS - 1172fps

These are loads that I have worked up to and are under 37,500psi when I had them tested. I hope this helps!
-Mike

My data for a 180 grain TMJ is ~100fps more and brass looked stressed:

Hodgdon Longshot
Speer 180 Grain TC FMJ
New Starline Brass
CCI-350 Primers
1.255 OAL
6" LWD Barrel
Wolff 22# Spring
60F, Sea Level

String 1 - (9.6 Grains of Hodgdon Longshot)
1) 1403.0 4.4
2) 1392.0 -6.6
3) 1388.0 -10.6
4) 1408.0 9.4
5) 1402.0 3.4

High: 1408.0
Low: 1388.0
E.S.: 20.0
Ave.: 1398.6
S.D.: 8.3
95%: ±11.5

Do you think it's the six inch barrel and sea level?

I'm looking to develop a 180 grain CMJ/JHP at ~1300fps. I seem to be getting close to those velocities with 8.4 grains of Longshot (.1 grain less than minimum?). Go figure? Just puzzled... any ideas or suggestions? :shocked:

texas 48
05-08-2011, 19:40
Picked up some longshot and would like to do a little reloading while awaiting new barrel, spring, etc.. Out of a stock Glock 20 what would be the starting loads for 155 XTP and 180XTP using longshot. Experienced reloader and will take any and all advise at my own risk. Many thanx

Out of a KKM 4.6 inch barrel with 11.5 gr LS New starline brass CCI 350 1.257 COAL I got 1477ft/sec primers Ok but would drop to 9.3 gr for a stock barrel and work up slowly. Published data from Hogdon shows max load @ 9.3 gr 31500 psi so there is some room to go beyond.

whenmonkeysfly
05-08-2011, 20:05
My data for a 180 grain TMJ is ~100fps more and brass looked stressed:

Hodgdon Longshot
Speer 180 Grain TC FMJ
New Starline Brass
CCI-350 Primers
1.255 OAL
6" LWD Barrel
Wolff 22# Spring
60F, Sea Level

String 1 - (9.6 Grains of Hodgdon Longshot)
1) 1403.0 4.4
2) 1392.0 -6.6
3) 1388.0 -10.6
4) 1408.0 9.4
5) 1402.0 3.4

High: 1408.0
Low: 1388.0
E.S.: 20.0
Ave.: 1398.6
S.D.: 8.3
95%: ±11.5

Do you think it's the six inch barrel and sea level?

I'm looking to develop a 180 grain CMJ/JHP at ~1300fps. I seem to be getting close to those velocities with 8.4 grains of Longshot (.1 grain less than minimum?). Go figure? Just puzzled... any ideas or suggestions? :shocked:

Here's Hodgdon Data:

Cartridge: 10mm Auto
180 GR. SIE JHC Hodgdon Longshot: Starting Loads - 8.5 Grains, fps 1221
Maximum Loads - 9.5 Grains, fps 1287

whenmonkeysfly
05-08-2011, 20:11
Out of a KKM 4.6 inch barrel with 11.5 gr LS New starline brass CCI 350 1.257 COAL I got 1477ft/sec primers Ok but would drop to 9.3 gr for a stock barrel and work up slowly. Published data from Hogdon shows max load @ 9.3 gr 31500 psi so there is some room to go beyond.

That's smokin' Tex! And, that's a stout load of Longshot! Did you get 1477fps with a 155 or 180 grain XTP or both?

texas 48
05-09-2011, 21:31
That's smokin' Tex! And, that's a stout load of Longshot! Did you get 1477fps with a 155 or 180 grain XTP or both?
It is smoken. That was with the 155gr XTP. I only load lighter bullets because I don't hunt and very hot 180 and 200gr bullets are more for 4 legged threats and the chance of a thru and thru on 2 legged treats is greater. My last post I stated that Hogdon max load for 155Xtp was 9.3 that was for a .40 not 10mm but velocity for ths .40 load was 1283 ft/sec. at 11.5 gr in the 10mm 200 ft/sec is not big stretch. Someone else posted that they used 12.5 gr but From the numbers I got with 11.5 I would not go any higher. That load may be too hot for 2 legged threats with the XTP.11.0gr gave me 1420ft/sec and was more accurate and probably safer. Have not fired in a stock barrel so I can't safely recommend going that high in the stock barrel. Next time out I will see the condition of the brass out of my stock barrels.
I use a 165gr Golden Saber in new Starline nickel plate brass with a 10.0 of power pistol (max published load) CCI350
1.255 -1.258 1396 ft/sec 4.6 inch barrel SD 11.4 for my carry loads.

Taterhead
07-11-2011, 17:40
Made my first workups with Longshot powder. Stuck with Hodgdon book data. My initial impressions are favorable. While I hand weighed each charge, it is a pwder that meters quite well. I have heard the nickname, "loudshot" in the past, but it did not seem noticeably loud. It was certainly not loud like Blue Dot. It burned relatively clean. Somewhere between 800-X and Accurate 9/7 powders in terms of powder residue and cleanliness.

There is nothing too exciting here, but I thought I would add some data points to the sticky.

Firearm: Gen 3 Glock 20 with 22# Wolff spring and steel non-captured guide rod. Stock barrel.

Temp: 90F

Brass: Starline
Primer: CCI 300
Powder: Hodgdon Longshot
COL: 1.26"
Crimp: .421" as measured at the case mouth
Bullet: Hornady 200 gr XTP
Velocities are averages not corrected to the muzzle

7.0 grains
Vel: 1038
ME: 478

7.3 grains
Vel: 1068
ME: 506

7.6 grains
Vel: 1091
ME: 528

7.8 grains
Vel : 1105
ME: 542

8.0 grains
Vel: 1110
ME: 547

8.2 grains (Hodgdon book max)
Vel: 1146
ME: 583
Note that this load penetrated cleanly through five water-filled milk jugs.

None of the loads exhibited symptoms of excess pressure. Maximum case expansion was gtg. Groups were all respectable.

I have several strings of 180 gr XTPs loaded. I will post the results when available.

_The_Shadow
07-11-2011, 19:22
Taterhead, thanks for posting the data...
LongShot, does a good job and is one of the powders to use with the 10mm. I had used almost all of my 1 lb jug of LS for my 9x25Dillon project, but have just a little to test a few loads with.
For me right now, I am trying to use my new 5 lb jug of Blue Dot. It may go pretty fast with a ton of 10mm, 40S&W and 357Sig to load.

TDC20
07-30-2011, 10:55
This data is posted in response to whenmonkeysfly's issue with his 9.6gr 180 load. Since I had almost the exact same setup, except standard (CCI#300) instead of mag primers, and my brass did not suffer at all. I measure case head expansion just above the extractor groove on the webbing of the brass. For my new Starline, my average is 0.4220".

4/11/2011, 180gr XTP, 9.7gr Longshot, CCI #300, New Starline brass, 1.255" OAL, 62F, 22lb Wolff spring.

Using the LWD 6" BBL

1407
1400
1394
1404
1387
ft-lbs
Lo 1387 769
HI 1407 791
Avg 1398.4 782
Es 20
Sd 8.02

Notes: Case heads .4226 - .4232". Light to moderate ejector/extractor marks.

Stock G20 barrel, same load, same day/conditions, using the 22lb Wolff spring:

1275
1306
1306
1291
1298
ft-lbs
Lo 1275 650
HI 1306 682
Avg 1295.2 671
Es 31
Sd 12.91

Notes: Case heads .4232 - .4240". Light to moderate ejector/extractor marks.

My objective was to get 1300fps out of the stock G20 barrel without any signs of brass stress, and this load made that criteria easily. It also makes an excellent 1400fps hunting load from the 6" barrel.

I know there are varying opinions on standard vs. magnum primers and when to use each, but comparing my data to whenmonkeysfly's load with a similar set up, main difference is primers, it would appear that .1gr more powder and a standard primer achieved the same result with much less strain on the brass.

Hope this helps!

whenmonkeysfly
08-08-2011, 18:27
8.6 Grains Hodgdon Longshot
Montana Gold 155 Grain JHP
Starline Brass
CCI-300 Large Pistol Primers
1.2450 OAL; Taper Crimp .421
5" Match Barrel
99F, (VERY HOT & HUMID) Sea Level

Just wanted to post this data since I do not see a lot of info with the 10mm, Longshot Powder and the 155 Grain Bullet. This load could go hotter or milder, but I wanted a relatively soft shooting, accurate, full-power load with reloadable brass for my Dan Wesson Razorback Limited Edition. (This load seemed to fit the bill.) Power Factor of 193 +/-, so it's in the "majors" easily. You can get similar results from a .40 S&W, but I think you'll beat your gun to death in relatively short order IMHO.


Here's my data:

Total Strings = 3
Feet Per Second

String 1
1) 1245.0 8.6
2) 1233.0 -3.4
3) 1221.0 -15.4
4) 1214.0 -22.4
5) 1210.0 -26.4
6) 1255.0 18.6
7) 1250.0 13.6
8) 1271.0 34.6
9) 1229.0 -7.4

High: 1271.0
Low: 1210.0
E.S.: 61.0
Ave.: 1236.4
S.D.: 20.3
95%: ±16.6

String 2
1) 1256.0 5.0
2) 1237.0 -14.0
3) 1264.0 13.0
4) 1271.0 20.0
5) 1249.0 -2.0
6) 1243.0 -8.0
7) 1267.0 16.0
8) 1221.0 -30.0

High: 1271.0
Low: 1221.0
E.S.: 50.0
Ave.: 1251.0
S.D.: 17.0
95%: ±15.2

String 3
1) 1249.0 -2.8
2) 1246.0 -5.8
3) 1248.0 -3.8
4) 1260.0 8.2
5) 1227.0 -24.8
6) 1269.0 17.2
7) 1257.0 5.2
8) 1246.0 -5.8
9) 1264.0 12.2

High: 1269.0
Low: 1227.0
E.S.: 42.0
Ave.: 1251.8
S.D.: 12.5
95%: ±10.2

(End Of Data)

In the next few days I want to try a 165 grain bullet with the same loading specs. I'll post the results in the coming days.

-WMF (Jay)

texas 48
08-08-2011, 18:51
Hodgdon Longshot
Montana Gold 155 Grain JHP
Starline Brass
CCI-300 Large Pistol Primers
1.2450 OAL
5" Match Barrel
99F, (VERY HOT & HUMID) Sea Level

Just wanted to post this data since I do not see a lot of info with the 10mm, Longshot Powder and the 155 Grain Bullet. This load could go hotter or milder, but I wanted a relatively soft shooting, accurate, full-power load with reloadable brass for my Dan Wesson Razorback Limited Edition. (This load seemed to fit the bill.) Power Factor of 193 +/-, so it's in the "majors" easily. You can get similar results from a .40 S&W, but I think you'll beat your gun to death in relatively short order IMHO.


Here's my data:

Total Strings = 3
Feet Per Second

String 1
1) 1245.0 8.6
2) 1233.0 -3.4
3) 1221.0 -15.4
4) 1214.0 -22.4
5) 1210.0 -26.4
6) 1255.0 18.6
7) 1250.0 13.6
8) 1271.0 34.6
9) 1229.0 -7.4

High: 1271.0
Low: 1210.0
E.S.: 61.0
Ave.: 1236.4
S.D.: 20.3
95%: ±16.6

String 2
1) 1256.0 5.0
2) 1237.0 -14.0
3) 1264.0 13.0
4) 1271.0 20.0
5) 1249.0 -2.0
6) 1243.0 -8.0
7) 1267.0 16.0
8) 1221.0 -30.0

High: 1271.0
Low: 1221.0
E.S.: 50.0
Ave.: 1251.0
S.D.: 17.0
95%: ±15.2

String 3
1) 1249.0 -2.8
2) 1246.0 -5.8
3) 1248.0 -3.8
4) 1260.0 8.2
5) 1227.0 -24.8
6) 1269.0 17.2
7) 1257.0 5.2
8) 1246.0 -5.8
9) 1264.0 12.2

High: 1269.0
Low: 1227.0
E.S.: 42.0
Ave.: 1251.8
S.D.: 12.5
95%: ±10.2

(End Of Data)

In the next few days I want to try a 165 grain bullet with the same loading specs. I'll post the results in the coming days.

-WMF (Jay)

thanks for the data but did I miss the grains used

whenmonkeysfly
08-09-2011, 09:29
thanks for the data but did I miss the grains used

Crap, that's what happens when you get old! I corrected the post to reflect 8.6 Grains of Longshot. Thanks for pointing that out Tex!

ModGlock17
08-24-2011, 10:59
I have trouble measuring LongShot to get consistent loads. It can be consistent for a few rounds, then jumps 0.5gr with one. The powder sticks to walls of Lee Pro AutoDisk. Static electricity?

Any remedial suggestion?

whenmonkeysfly
08-25-2011, 11:47
I wanted to post this data as well since I found it extremely easy to shoot and very accurate. Meets the Major Power Factor at 173+.

Hodgdon Longshot - 7.5 Grains
Rainer .40/10mm 165 Grain TC Bullet
Starline Brass
CCI-300 Large Pistol Primers
1.2450 OAL
5" Match Barrel (Wilson Combat Tactical Elite 1911 10mm)
99F, (VERY HOT & HUMID) Sea Level

Total Strings = 4
(Feet Per Second)

String 1
1) 1088.0 1.6
2) 1064.0 -22.4
3) 1107.0 20.6
4) 1116.0 29.6
5) 1090.0 3.6
6) 1086.0 -0.4
7) 1078.0 -8.4
8) 1062.0 -24.4

High: 1116.0
Low: 1062.0
E.S.: 54.0
Ave.: 1086.4
S.D.: 18.8
95%: ±16.8

String 2
1) 1067.0 -13.8
2) 1055.0 -25.8
3) 1083.0 2.2
4) 1084.0 3.2
5) 1085.0 4.2
6) 1080.0 -0.8
7) 1089.0 8.2
8) 1103.0 22.2

High: 1103.0
Low: 1055.0
E.S.: 48.0
Ave.: 1080.8
S.D.: 14.4
95%: ±12.9

String 3
1) 1086.0 -3.5
2) 1098.0 8.5
3) 1101.0 11.5
4) 1102.0 12.5
5) 1093.0 3.5
6) 1073.0 -16.5
7) 1075.0 -14.5
8) 1088.0 -1.5

High: 1102.0
Low: 1073.0
E.S.: 29.0
Ave.: 1089.5
S.D.: 11.1
95%: ±9.9

String 4
1) 1047.0 -28.0
2) 1077.0 2.0
3) 1070.0 -5.0
4) 1067.0 -8.0
5) 1085.0 10.0
6) 1068.0 -7.0
7) 1101.0 26.0
8) 1085.0 10.0

High: 1101.0
Low: 1047.0
E.S.: 54.0
Ave.: 1075.0
S.D.: 16.0
95%: ±14.3

(End Of Data)

whenmonkeysfly
08-25-2011, 12:06
I have trouble measuring LongShot to get consistent loads. It can be consistent for a few rounds, then jumps 0.5gr with one. The powder sticks to walls of Lee Pro AutoDisk. Static electricity?

Any remedial suggestion?

ModGlock17,

I don't know anything about the Lee Pro AutoDisk (I use a Dillon 650XL), but I had a similar problem using used brass and Hornady One Shot Case Lube. New brass, no problem, which I found somewhat puzzling. I clean my brass with a liquid media, so static electricity from tumbling shouldn't necessarily be an issue, but maybe that's what's going on with yours? What kind of case lube are you using? Is the powder sticking to your dies too? I cleaned my powder die and it seemed to remedy my problem. I would be curious to what others think on this thread. :dunno:

whenmonkeysfly
08-25-2011, 12:36
Is it just me or does anyone else find Longshot a little dirty?

ModGlock17
08-25-2011, 16:17
ModGlock17,

I don't know anything about the Lee Pro AutoDisk (I use a Dillon 650XL), but I had a similar problem using used brass and Hornady One Shot Case Lube. New brass, no problem, which I found somewhat puzzling. I clean my brass with a liquid media, so static electricity from tumbling shouldn't necessarily be an issue, but maybe that's what's going on with yours? What kind of case lube are you using? Is the powder sticking to your dies too? I cleaned my powder die and it seemed to remedy my problem. I would be curious to what others think on this thread. :dunno:

Thanks for the reply. I use carbide die with Lee Classic Turret. I'm near "Lalaland, FL" (Disney) and as you know, humidity is high. I don't think our AC is taking out enough water from the air to make things prone to static. The Pro AutoDisk slides a disk with known volume under the powder container then slides it over to the charging die to drop the load.

BDot is superbly accurate. 800x can be any where from 0 to +0.5gr over my target weight (so I had to manually correct each case). And this is my first time with LongShot. Hogdon said 8.5 to 9.5gr for 180gr bullet. When I set it to 9.0gr, I will get that for a few cases, then all of a sudden, I get a 9.5gr!

I have to be convinced of its (or the whole dispensing system's) accuracy before I abandon my check on every case.

Since I don't have experience with LShot, I am not sure what is "normal" for it. So I am not sure I have a bad 1-lbs containter or not. Now, when I was done, I dumped the remainder of plastic dispenser back to container. That is when I notice it (quite a few flakes) tends to stick to the walls of the plastic dispenser, UNLIKE BDot and 800x. Had to tab it hard to make them drop. That's when the static electricity idea came to mind.

May be I should try wiping the outside of the dispenser with a slightly moist rag to neutralize potential static.

I was wondering you guys have the same stick-to-the-wall experience, since I think that is what gave rise to inconsistent loads.

nickE10mm
08-25-2011, 16:31
May be I should try wiping the outside of the dispenser with a slightly moist rag to neutralize potential static.

I was wondering you guys have the same stick-to-the-wall experience, since I think that is what gave rise to inconsistent loads.

I've heard of coating the inside of the powder measure / dispenser with powdered graphite. Its inert in small amounts (as related to gunpowder in cases) and can be bought in tiny tubes or simply rubbed off from a pencil.

I've used it on my Lee Primer Arm to assist with pivoting as its suggested liquid oil not be used.

mtn_hunter
08-25-2011, 19:05
I'll qualify all this with the fact that I'm new to reloading and the 10mm.

1) I have been reloading with Longshot and have seen a bit of static cling on the sides of my RCBS powder dispenser. I get some variation in weight but not .5 grains. I use a powder baffle in mine.

2) I seem to be getting higher velocities than others, to be brief I'm getting about 1330 fps from this:

New G20 sf (15 round mag), temp mid 70's, low humidity, 6,500 ft elevation:

180 grain XTP
9.5 grains Longshot
CCI 350 primers
1.260 COL
New Starline brass

Here are some dimensions on brass measured just up from the base:

New unfired - 0.421"
Once fired stock barrel 0.433"
Once fired Lone Wolf barrel 0.426"

3) I'm having problems with reliable feeding of this load (jamming), I have also used Montana Gold CMJ, 180 gr. I have a post in the 10 ring but hoped that I would get some additional feedback from this group. Thanks to those of you that have replied from the 10ring. Hopefully the cross post won't make the Mods mad. I'm really quite surprised no one has commented on the tendency to feed left as being a possible problem. Any additional insight would be greatly appreciated. If this gun won't fire this type of load reliably it is of no use to me.

http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=17759748&postcount=1

texas 48
08-25-2011, 19:28
You may want to use a Lee Factory crimp die or go to a shorter OAL and reduce the charge by .1 or .2. I believe a brighter crimp would be the answer to you jamming providing your mag and mag springs are good. What weight recoil spring are you using.

mtn_hunter
08-25-2011, 19:50
You may want to use a Lee Factory crimp die or go to a shorter OAL and reduce the charge by .1 or .2. I believe a brighter crimp would be the answer to you jamming providing your mag and mag springs are good. What weight recoil spring are you using.

I should have provided a bit more information here. Regarding the jamming it is nose up to the left. This has happened repeatedly in stock form as well as with a 22# spring and SS guide rod. I have reduced the OAL to 1.255" with no change (I didn't reduce the load, but should have). I'm currently using RCBS carbide dies.

I had thought about a tighter crimp though it seems good now, as far as holding the bullet securely (takes a lot of pounding, with a dynamic bullet puller, to get it to move). Maybe I should give that a try but I don't want to go with too much crimp either.

whenmonkeysfly
08-26-2011, 11:11
ModGlock17,

As we know, 0.5 grain variances is not acceptable and especially when you are working toward maximum loads. (0.1 grain variance is okay for a drop powder measure.) No variance for a trickle powder measure and I weigh a second time here on either my digital scale or beam scale.

Of course, "maximum" loads are all over the place depending on where the information is obtained. I have used several reloading books, along with several online handloading sites (paid and free), along with published data from others on this website in my "max" loads.

When I'm working anywhere near "my" max loads, I weigh all my charges a second time. I also make sure my digital scale is calibrated and zeroed. I then recheck the zero periodically, because I've found it "drifting" over time.

When I'm working in "new" territory with a 10mm powder, I will use my Smith & Wesson 610 Revolver with a 6 1/2" barrel for testing since it (they) are built on an "N-frame". Chronograph the loads and look for signs of over pressure. Then I adjust the loads for one of my semi-autos.

I like NickE10mm suggestion using graphite. I have also thought about using a "static-free" dryer sheet and lightly wiping down components. (It will make your handloads smell pretty too.)

I'm in Florida, so heat and humidity are extremely high. I use a dehumidifier in an air-conditioned area.

I have noticed some Longshot powder sticking to the lip and sides of the powder container. I also noticed that plastic scale powder/funnel pans allow powder to stick to them as well, so I use metal scale powder/funnel pans (RCBS makes a good one.)

IMHO, I think wiping down components with graphite and/or an anti-static cloth should help significantly.

ModGlock17
08-27-2011, 05:15
I like NickE10mm suggestion using graphite. I have also thought about using a "static-free" dryer sheet and lightly wiping down components. (It will make your handloads smell pretty too.)

..............
IMHO, I think wiping down components with graphite and/or an anti-static cloth should help significantly.

Thank you Gentlemen. I will try both of your suggestions, as my inventory ran low because I just shot some groups with LongShot weights 9.0gr, 9.2gr, 9.4gr on 180gr bullets.

Long Shot 9.0 on plated Berry180FN
G20 6" 1,256fps std 18.7 630 ft-lbs
G29 stock 1,079fps std 21.3 465 ft-lbs

Speed delta 177fps 165 ft-lbs between two guns


LongShot 9.2 on Nosler180HP
G20 6" 1,271fps std 14.1 646 ft-lbs
G29 stock 1,100fps std 18.5 484 ft-lbs

Speed delta 171fps 162 ft-lbs between two guns




LongShot 9.4 on Nosler180HP
G20 6" 1,255fps std 34.1 629 ft-lbs
G29 stock 1,087fps std 20.4 472 ft-lbs

Speed delta 168fps 157 ft-lbs between two guns



Observations:
1. Optimum Longshot weight for 180gr bullet is 9.2gr with tightest spread.
2. Plated Berry can be very accurate with Longshot 9.0gr
3. LongShot 9.4 appeared to worsen with speed and spread. Waisted powder above 9.2gr weight.

In the same session, I shot my new toy, KelTec Sub2000 using 9mm rounds.
Federal 9mm 115gr (Wal-Mart) 1431fps std 9.1 523 ft-lbs
Georgia Arms 115gr 1357fps std 15.1 470 ft-lbs

What's interesting here is that 115gr 9mm on the Sub2000 (16" barrel) has more energy than 180gr 10mm with LongShots on a less efficient G29.

ModGlock17
08-27-2011, 19:28
I cotton swabbed (Q-tip) the inside of the charge tube & charge riser, as well as the release hole in the powder container. Very black and dirty.

After that, charge drops are spot on.

What is surprising to me: 800x meters very accurately! But there's a trick: fill the charge container with at least 50% full of 800x. I think the total powder weight inside the container help force to powder down, in much more consisten manner. The inaccuracy starting to increase when the container had less than an eigth full.

Tip/Rule:
1. Clean you drop tube every 500 rounds or so.
2. Keep the powder container more than half full, to get accurate dispensing.

Longknife
09-05-2011, 13:07
I cotton swabbed (Q-tip) the inside of the charge tube & charge riser, as well as the release hole in the powder container. Very black and dirty.

After that, charge drops are spot on.

What is surprising to me: 800x meters very accurately! But there's a trick: fill the charge container with at least 50% full of 800x. I think the total powder weight inside the container help force to powder down, in much more consisten manner. The inaccuracy starting to increase when the container had less than an eigth full.
Tip/Rule:
1. Clean you drop tube every 500 rounds or so.
2. Keep the powder container more than half full, to get accurate dispensing.

That's pretty standard advice regardless of the powder being used. I never let my measure get below 50%.

liver
10-03-2011, 21:20
10MM - Longshot - 200 gr Hornady HP/XTP
Stock G20SF - 20# Wolf and Steel Rod
String 1 - 8.2 gr - CCI300
String 2 - 8.4 gr - CCI300
String 3 - 8.2 gr - CCI350 - one rd got away, but shows on target
String 4 - 8.4 gr - CCI350

** String1 String2 String3 String4
** FPS FPS FPS FPS
LO 1080 1108 1106 1106
HI 1132 1143 1140 1154
AV 1102 1125 1115 1131
ES 51.48 34.35 33.26 48.44
SD 15.00 9.21 10.72 14.73
ME 539 562 552 568
CoV 1.36 0.82 0.96 1.30
RD #1 1099 1127 1106 1106
RD #2 1080 1121 1110 1132
RD #3 1091 1128 1124 1124
RD #4 1094 1131 1116 1139
RD #5 1105 1143 1108 1147
RD #6 1103 1108 1110 1112
RD #7 1097 1117 1114 1137
RD #8 1122 1120 1140 1133
RD #9 1098 1125 1109 1125
RD #10 1132 1127 ### 1154

Targets at 25ft, Chrony at 10 ft

Target String 1
http://i541.photobucket.com/albums/gg374/LittleLiver/10mm/Target_01.jpg

Target String 2
http://i541.photobucket.com/albums/gg374/LittleLiver/10mm/Target_02.jpg

Target String 3
http://i541.photobucket.com/albums/gg374/LittleLiver/10mm/Target_03.jpg

Target String 4
http://i541.photobucket.com/albums/gg374/LittleLiver/10mm/Target_04.jpg

I was more worried about not hitting the chrony, where my brass landed, if the weather was going to change and rain on me, than I was about my aim.

frankt
11-04-2011, 17:14
180 Hornady XTP 8.9grs Longshot
Stock G29 W/ 21# Wolff Spring and guide rod
New Starline Brass 1.260 COL
63 degrees 10' from Chrono
Lo 1147 Hi 1173 Av 1164

Load functioned great, still launching brass pretty far. I will probably bump it a few more grains and call it a good all around load. Serious enough to get the job done but not overly hot or too hard on the hand.
Brass looked great.

nickE10mm
11-05-2011, 08:27
Pistol: Fusion Traditional Hunter 10mm longslide, 6" bbl, fully supported
Temperature: 72 degrees, sunny, beautiful, no wind
Altitude: 500ft or so

NONE of these loads exhibited any bulges whatsoever. The max longshot loads did have a TINY bit of primer flattening but nothing out of the ordinary and nothing as flat as DT loads always show.

(LO, HI, AVG, ES, SD) - most were 5 shot strings to save ammo and $$

200gr XTP
7.6gr LS
1164
1189
1179
25.18
9.94

200gr XTP
7.8gr LS
1187
1206
1193
18.82
7.34

200gr XTP
8.0gr LS
1187
1249
1207
61.91
21.8

200gr XTP
8.2gr LS
1194
1272
1229
77.47
26.21

165gr GS
9.0gr LS
1342
1430
1390
87.75
33.22

180gr SXT (bonded)
7.0gr LS
1109
1182
1148
72.28
28.87


This was my first time doing a work-up with Longshot. Lovin' this powder! More to come in this space. I've got a series of 8.4-9.0gr loads I'm working up to attempt to map the performance.

NOTE** I'm wondering if my high ES's are due to a problem with consistent metering with the Lee Adjustable Charge Bar. Will test this theory out soon.

CanyonMan
11-20-2011, 21:30
Pistol: Fusion Traditional Hunter 10mm longslide, 6" bbl, fully supported
Temperature: 72 degrees, sunny, beautiful, no wind
Altitude: 500ft or so

NONE of these loads exhibited any bulges whatsoever. The max longshot loads did have a TINY bit of primer flattening but nothing out of the ordinary and nothing as flat as DT loads always show.

(LO, HI, AVG, ES, SD) - most were 5 shot strings to save ammo and $$

200gr XTP
7.6gr LS
1164
1189
1179
25.18
9.94

200gr XTP
7.8gr LS
1187
1206
1193
18.82
7.34

200gr XTP
8.0gr LS
1187
1249
1207
61.91
21.8

200gr XTP
8.2gr LS
1194
1272
1229
77.47
26.21

165gr GS
9.0gr LS
1342
1430
1390
87.75
33.22

180gr SXT (bonded)
7.0gr LS
1109
1182
1148
72.28
28.87


This was my first time doing a work-up with Longshot. Lovin' this powder! More to come in this space. I've got a series of 8.4-9.0gr loads I'm working up to attempt to map the performance.

NOTE** I'm wondering if my high ES's are due to a problem with consistent metering with the Lee Adjustable Charge Bar. Will test this theory out soon.


Hey my friend, where did you get those 180gr SXT Bonded bullets to hand load?


Thanks!



CM

nickE10mm
11-20-2011, 21:34
Hey my friend, where did you get those 180gr SXT Bonded bullets to hand load?


Thanks!



CM

Good observation, bud. :)

I pulled them from some .40SW defense ammo. (I used to have a conversion bbl so I had some old ammo laying around)

_The_Shadow
01-23-2012, 19:51
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/c3/FrancisMarionSwampFox.jpg/150px-FrancisMarionSwampFox.jpg
Mike Willard at SwampFox Ammo died November 5th 2011
http://www.stoudenmiredowling.com/dowling/detailinfo.asp?intProdID=414

SWAMPFOX PREMIUM


MAXIMUM VELOCITY AMMUNITION


SwampFox Premium
Maximum Velocity Ammunition
10mm Auto-200gr Hornady XTP
1240 fps@muzzle - Lot#120110
sfp10mmHXTP

I pulled down rounds from this box of his ammo and this is what I learned...

The Starline cartridge contained 9.4 grains of Hodgdon LongShot, COAL @ 1.250”, Primers possibly CCI 300, as sold to the public.
I verified the charge weight on two scales (digital & balance beam), in the effort to learn what Mike was producing for his customers.

Mike Willard / Mudrush discussed this load on Glock Talk in a response to Kegs question of how did he obtain 1325 fps using the Hornady 200 grain XTP. This link to the discussion at Post #20
http://glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1357227 (http://glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1357227) Date 07-23-2011, 22:19 #20

This is the load he shared to us on the forum...
200gr @ 1325 fps (XTP & FMJ)10gr LongShot 300cci primer. 1.250” col


I will add here to be very cautious as with any internet data, using this information to handload ammunition will strickly be your responsibility and risk! w/ AFTERMARKET FULLY SUPPORTED barrel ONLY! 22lbs recoil springs! Loads should reduced for use in 6" or longer barrels!

This page was created to honor Mike Willard and Swamp Fox Ammo that many of us here came to know as; a high quality product as being the real deal and true 10mm ammo!

The
SHADOW
Knows!

nickE10mm
01-23-2012, 20:21
To summarize the info we have gleaned from the late Mike Willard @ Swampfox:

9.4gr LS under a 200gr XTP = 1240fps (+) in G20 w/ AFTERMARKET FULLY SUPPORTED barrel ONLY.

10.0gr LS under a 200gr XTP = 1325fps in G20 w/ AFTERMARKET FULLY SUPPORTED barrel.

Primers used were CCI300 NON mag primers.

The charge should be reduced for use in a longer 6" barrel otherwise pressure will be too high. Per The late Mike W.

Standard disclaimer applies. Do your OWN slow, careful workups with new brass. ALSO, it's my opinion that the 10.0gr load probably averages over 37.5k. Just my guess.

_The_Shadow
01-24-2012, 09:27
Added info to reflect what nickE10mm mentioned to the page...I would suggest that people read all of the info by going to the GlockTalk link provided...
http://glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1357227 (http://glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1357227) Date 07-23-2011, 22:19 #20

This is so those wishing to get a grasp of the type of person Mudrush was and what was discussed...

Any Cal.
01-24-2012, 15:53
............

Taterhead
01-24-2012, 17:09
Yes, it is important that we all take to heart the misinformation provided by a guy who didn't understand what he was doing. I think we should all try to spread that around, so as to further misinform others and make it even more difficult for those who are trying to understand what is really happening. It is especially comforting to know that he was selling handloaded ammunition, despite not having even a rudimentary understanding of internal ballistics.

In all seriousness, I am trying to follow your remarks, but am not sure if there is sarcasm, etc. Are you saying that you believe that mudrush lacked an understanding about internal ballistics?

Not challenging you. Just trying to make sure I understand your remarks. Would you mind elaborating a bit?

Thanks.

Yondering
01-24-2012, 22:30
He's probably referring to the "higher pressure in 6"+ barrels" comment. See the discussion of that topic in another thread on this forum. I don't agree with mudrush's claim either, but it's pretty much a moot point for us handloaders, as we should be working up to max loads in each barrel and gun anyway.

I'm sure there's more to be discussed about the 6" barrel issue; can we do that in the other thread, to not clutter this one?

I'm sorry to hear that mudrush has passed; it sounds like we could have learned more from him, and him from us as well. It was generous of him to share his load data with us.

Any Cal.
01-24-2012, 23:47
Taterhead, I did elaborate, but then realized how far off topic my last post was getting... Your quote will show my original post, everything else edited for brevity.

gwsanfor
01-25-2012, 05:58
To summarize:

9.4gr LS under a 200gr XTP = 1240fps (+) in G20 w/ AFTERMARKET FULLY SUPPORTED barrel ONLY.

10.0gr LS under a 200gr XTP = 1325fps in G20 w/ AFTERMARKET FULLY SUPPORTED barrel.

Primers used were CCI300 NON mag primers.

The charge should be reduced for use in a longer 6" barrel otherwise pressure will be too high. Per The late Mike W.

Standard disclaimer applies. Do your OWN slow, careful workups with new brass. ALSO, it's my opinion that the 10.0gr load probably averages over 37.5k. Just my guess.
Indeed, something north of 37,500. Altough QuickLoad is not always exact, and I'd appreciate another QL user checking this, with a measured 0.676" long .400" diameter 200 gr XTP (40060) in 24.6 gr H2O MCC 0.987" long Starline brass with 10.0 gr LongShot 1.26" OAL from a G20sf, QL shows 1316 fps at 62,825 psi. That velocity is about what you indicated, I hope the pressure calculation is not correct. Personally, I would not load that round.

_The_Shadow
01-25-2012, 10:54
Actually the Hornady 200XTP's I measured were 0.680"-0.682"

I don't know if I would ever go to the 10 grain LongShot loading, however I'll be testing the 9.4 grains of LongShot, as this is what was sold by SwampFox in the lot# of ammo I have on hand. Everyone was raving over this stuff!

_The_Shadow
01-25-2012, 15:48
Did a little test today using the SwamFox 9.4 grain of LongShot with 200 grain Hornady XTP's loading...

1) "Used" Starline Brass which had a slight smile and loose primer pocket before sizing, this was reconditioned using the LEE FCD as a pass-thru-die. After the shot from the S&W 1006 velocity 1260 fps, it expanded to 0.4295" and the loose primer pocket showed some soot leakage.

2) Again with the S&W 1006 a "used" Federal casing which disappeared into grass never to be found but regestered 1296 fps.

3) Tested from the Glock-29 @ 1175 fps "used" Starline casing expanded to 0.4340"

)4 Again from the Glock-29 @ 1177 fps "used" Hornady casing expanded to 0.4340", this case split lengthwise 0.3535" long about mid case.

gwsanfor
01-25-2012, 15:58
Did a little test today using the SwamFox 9.4 grain of LongShot with 200 grain Hornady XTP's loading...

1) "Used" Starline Brass which had a slight smile and loose primer pocket before sizing, this was reconditioned using the LEE FCD as a pass-thru-die. After the shot from the S&W 1006 velocity 1260 fps, it expanded to 0.4295" and the loose primer pocket showed some soot leakage.

2) Again with the S&W 1006 a "used" Federal casing which disappeared into grass never to be found but regestered 1296 fps.

3) Tested from the Glock-29 @ 1175 fps "used" Starline casing expanded to 0.430"

)4 Again from the Glock-29 @ 1177 fps "used" Hornady casing expanded to 0.430", this case split lengthwise 0.3535" long about mid case.
Shadow,

Using your XTP 200 gr (40060) .461" bullet length and 5" barrel, assuming 1.26" OAL, QL predicts 1277 fps at 54,431 psi for 9.4 gr LS at 70F. That velocity agrees pretty well with your cases 1, 2, and 3. Hope the pressure is being over-predicted by QL.

Image at https://docs.google.com/open?id=0B5fazXeV8cnBMDRjYTc5MDgtNzlhNy00MDNhLWIyNTktNjI1N2Y1YjNkMjNk

_The_Shadow
01-25-2012, 17:30
Shadow,

Using your XTP 200 gr (40060) .461" bullet length and 5" barrel, assuming 1.26" OAL, QL predicts 1277 fps at 54,431 psi for 9.4 gr LS at 70F. That velocity agrees pretty well with your cases 1, 2, and 3. Hope the pressure is being over-predicted by QL.

Image at https://docs.google.com/open?id=0B5fazXeV8cnBMDRjYTc5MDgtNzlhNy00MDNhLWIyNTktNjI1N2Y1YjNkMjNk

The XTP 200 gr (40060) actual measure at 0.6820"-0.6825" in length
I loaded to 1.250"
Yes it was probably at least 75F today and slightly above sea level 22'-25'

I am not that familure with the Quickload Software but I have seen people post that these loads are above the 37,500 psi ceiling in the charts. Pressure testing would likely show results one way or the other.

One thing I read about pressure testing rigs was that SAAMI test barrel rigs have the strain gauge mounted on the inside the chamber as opposed to the RSI type with the strain gauge on the exterior of the test barrel. The cartridge case expansion acts directly on the inside chamber mounted unit that is slightly recessed in the walls of the specific chamber.

Like I mentioned these were "used" brass that were reconditioned using the LEE FCD as a pass-thru-die, all finished rounds easily fit the Lyman cartridge gauge.

(brass#1) The primer pocket was loose prior to reloading that one and I fully expected it to have some blow by, however all primers were slightly flattened during this test and no leaks for the other two I recovered.

(brass#4) Hornady, I did not expect to see it split like it did. But I have seen this happen on new ammo (FC more than any other) on a first firing.

I know many use new brass to test their stuff, but I test using new and used and in different pistols or barrels for comparisons.

I personally do not have any pressure testing equipment, I only have digital calipers and chronograph to work with. :shocked:

nickE10mm
01-25-2012, 17:39
EXCELLENT info and testing, Shadow... Very enlightening. I'll have more related data when I finally get some chrono time. Again, good info here!

nickE10mm
01-26-2012, 06:54
Did a little test today using the SwamFox 9.4 grain of LongShot with 200 grain Hornady XTP's loading...

1) "Used" Starline Brass which had a slight smile and loose primer pocket before sizing, this was reconditioned using the LEE FCD as a pass-thru-die. After the shot from the S&W 1006 velocity 1260 fps, it expanded to 0.4295" and the loose primer pocket showed some soot leakage.

2) Again with the S&W 1006 a "used" Federal casing which disappeared into grass never to be found but regestered 1296 fps.

3) Tested from the Glock-29 @ 1175 fps "used" Starline casing expanded to 0.430"

)4 Again from the Glock-29 @ 1177 fps "used" Hornady casing expanded to 0.430", this case split lengthwise 0.3535" long about mid case.

Could you post pics of the cases... or at least the Hornady case that split?

_The_Shadow
01-26-2012, 08:48
These were used brass that I tested with, I have no idea how many times they were shot, but as mentioned the one the primer leaked on, the primer was loose when I installed it. So I expected it would leak some and it did. :shocked: The Hornady case may have been work hardened but the other was just fine. NO "smiles" from this test from either pistol. :cool:

http://i1086.photobucket.com/albums/j441/_The_Shadow/IMG_0346.jpg

http://i1086.photobucket.com/albums/j441/_The_Shadow/IMG_0344.jpg

G29SF
01-26-2012, 19:44
I'm getting pretty close to reloading myself... and fully intend on working up to the 200gr XTP @ 1325 fps loads that Swamp Fox used to make. (Yes, slowly... no need for safety comments.)

I shot a lot of those loads in my G29SF without any issues. I was using a KKM barrel for what it is worth. I think we have seen enough things go wrong with a stock Glock barrel and loads this hot. I will always use my KKM.

Just thought I would bring this up in case anyone was looking for someone who actually shot those loads. (I know there are a lot of us, but don't know if any are responding here.)

I never had any case splitting or buldging problems, however I was using Mike's new loads and not reloading myself with used brass.

_The_Shadow
01-26-2012, 19:57
G29SF, was that the velocity listed on the box of Swamp Fox? It would be nice if you could use a kenetic bullet puller to pull down one form that box and actually measure the powder charge...The more we can learn before the actual loadings are gone the better!

Have you ever worked with Hodgdon "LongShot"? IMR "Hi-Skor" 800X? The reason I ask is would you reconize one from the other? Swamp Fox posted he loaded with either for some loadings.

It would be great to have people do this like I did to learn even more of Mudrush's work before it is too late.

_The_Shadow
02-04-2012, 17:17
Just as a reference for the 9.4 grain LongShot load that I tested here is a screen shot of the Quick Load program which a friend has run for me so I will share it here...
http://i1086.photobucket.com/albums/j441/_The_Shadow/HodgdonLongShot.jpg

As you can see the pressure is shown above that of the SAAMI MAP for 10mm. I don't know exactly how accurate the data is, but the 58,823 psi was the predicted peak. I don't see myself working past this load toward the 10.0 grain LongShot which Mudrush posted.

I would like to see what XMMAUTO's pressure test would show on his rig?

Kegs
02-05-2012, 07:41
Quik load = LOLZ! Worse accuracy than al gores climate charts!

nickE10mm
02-27-2012, 13:13
See this thread: http://glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=18638379&posted=1#post18638379

I found this load to contain 9.9gr Longshot under a 200gr XTP, loaded to an OAL of 1.250-1.251"

ryangt
03-04-2012, 16:15
What's a good load for 155gr lead swc using longshot? Was going to pick up some of these http://www.wideners.com/itemdetail.cfm?item_id=1257&dir=278%7C281%7C1083%7C1135

Good price and has a saeco hardness of 9. Which converts to a bhn of 17. Any tips? Couldn't find anything on this thread, but might of overlooked it.

Out of curiosity does lead usually get loaded with more or less powder than a jacketed bullet? Swc vs fmj.

_The_Shadow
03-06-2012, 14:17
These were used brass that I tested with, I have no idea how many times they were shot, but as mentioned the one the primer leaked on, the primer was loose when I installed it. So I expected it would leak some and it did. :shocked: The Hornady case may have been work hardened but the other was just fine. NO "smiles" from this test from either pistol. :cool:




http://i1086.photobucket.com/albums/j441/_The_Shadow/IMG_0346.jpg


http://i1086.photobucket.com/albums/j441/_The_Shadow/IMG_0344.jpg

I was reinspecting these casings again today under magnification, The *Star-Line* case as shot from my S&W 1006 the one that had the loose primer before shooting and leaked...upon closer inspection it shows a very faint "SMILE" line. It is posible I missed it originally (remember this was used brass and the primer pocket was loose). That casing was pretty well beat up just look at the head stamp!

The area of the "SMILE" is to the left side of the casing and isn't even visible in the picture. It is possible I ironed it flat when I sized it in the "Pass-Thru-Die". :shocked:

But I really think it was produced when I fired it with the 9.4 grain charge of LongShot that copied SwampFox's 1240 fps loading...remember I have never seen a "SMILED" casing from my pistols. This may have been the start of the very first one.

I believe *Star-Line* cases are very soft brass as compared to others brands. :dunno:

nickE10mm
03-17-2012, 11:46
Fusion 6" Longslide - more data for the pool!!!

****Min, max, avg, ES, SD****

200XTP
8.5gr LS - 1224, 1279, 1253, 54, 20
8.8gr LS - 1223, 1265, 1241, 42, 16
9.0gr LS - 1277, 1296, 1292, 19, 8
9.2gr LS - 1294, 1321, 1308, 26.7, 10.5
9.4gr LS - 1311, 1337, 1325, 25.4, 11.6

***Interesting point to mention - 9.4-9.5gr LS moves a 200gr XTP nearly as fast as it moves a 180gr XTP in this setup***

180gr XTP
9.5gr LS - 1340, 1390, 1364, 51, 20

165gr GD
10gr LS - 1448, 1454, 1459, 36, 14

180gr XTP
10.5gr BD - ~1300

200gr WFN
9.5gr BD - ~1175
8.3gr LS - 1194, 1289, 1256, 95.3, 36.3

220gr HC (Buffalo Bore factory load, boxflap 1200fps/705fpe)
1163, 1181, 1172, 18.7, 6.9

nickE10mm
04-07-2012, 18:45
Added new data to above post

_The_Shadow
04-07-2012, 20:00
Thanks Nick, Thanks for the data, that 6" barrel really brings out the velocity numbers!
I was just reading about some reduced Blue Dot loads in rifles...

SDGlock23
06-03-2012, 13:00
Brainstormed for a sec and wanted to try some Longshot with 155gr JHP's, the bullets are just basic Remington JHP's. Looking at the load data from Hodgdon and not seeing anything other than 180gr and 200gr data, I decided that based off their results, 11.5gr of Longshot would be a good place to start some new data.

I didn't get to shoot much, very short on time and only got to shoot 3 per barrel, but here it is nonetheless. Hope to get more data soon.

Stock Glock 20sf (11.5gr Longshot)
About 75 degrees out, and I'm roughly 1050ft above sea level if any of that means something to you! Loaded using 1x Starline brass, CCI LP primers and loaded to 1.26"

1416
1386
1416
1406 AVG

Same load in 6" KKM bbl
1544
error
1549
1547 AVG

Notes: brass had a little bulge using stock bbl but not severe, and the brass from the KKM bbl looked great. Recoil was moderate at best, a little more stout from 6" KKM bbl. I feel 12gr would be safe and that's what I plan on loading up next. All in all, seems pretty consistent so far.

nickE10mm
06-04-2012, 09:42
Good data, SD.... I've ran up to 11.0gr LS under a 165gr GS and GD.... VERY hot load....

Turo
06-11-2012, 18:02
Thanks for the 155gr info SDGlock23, I have some 155gr XTP bullets lying around and I've been trying to figure out a load for them.

Here's my contribution to the thread, I'm using a factory Glock 20SF (stock 4.6" barrel), Hodgdon Longshot, CCI No. 300 LPP, new Starline brass, 1.264 OAL, and 180gr Precision Delta bullets. I didn't like that Hodgdon limits the 180gr loads at 34,600 psi, so I went a little above and beyond.

Under Hodgdon book max (9.5gr):
9.3gr Longshot gave 1205 fps avg.

9.5gr Longshot gave 1213 fps avg.


Over Hodgdon book max:

9.7gr Longshot gave 1247 fps avg.

9.8gr Longshot gave 1260 fps avg with an extreme spread of 6 fps. (I really liked this load, and I'll be loading more of these in the future.)

9.9gr Longshot also gave 1260 fps avg, but extreme spread was ~30 fps.

10.0gr Longshot gave 1262 fps avg. Recoil was not hard, instead felt like a warm .40S&W.

That's as high as I got for the last batch. I was really hoping to hit 1300 fps out of the stock barrel, but it seems that that goal might not be attainable with Longshot.

Almost forgot, the maximum case expansion in the stock barrel was .4335" with the 10.0gr loads. All the rest expanded near to the same size. No primer flattening occured, and no other pressure signs in the brass as far as I could see.

Hope that helps!

SDGlock23
08-15-2012, 19:48
Good data Turo. The last time I chronographed 9.5gr Longshot w/180gr I averaged right at 1260 fps.

Here is today's numbers:

165gr Sierra JHP @ 1.260"
10.5gr Longshot w/ CCI LP
Stock G20sf

Average: 1,353 fps / 671 ft-lbs

Same setup but 10.7gr Longshot:

Average: 1,357 fps. 675 ft-lbs

Notes: brass looked good, a little bulge but nothing out of the ordinary. For some reason Hodgdon doesn't list any Longshot data for 165gr (or 135 & 155). I came up with the above numbers, it's not book data. The first shot of each string (10.5gr and 10.7gr) was high (near 1400 fps), the rest were quite consistent. Had it not been for the high starting shots, the average for both would have been in the 1340's.

180gr FMJ @ 1.260"
6gr TiteGroup w/ CCI LP
Stock G20sf

Average: 1080 fps / 446 ft-lbs

Notes: brass bulged more than the above listed Longshot loads, nothing serious however. Not a warm load by any means, but it makes for a good plinking load for when you want to go easy and save on powder.

tsp45acp
04-28-2013, 10:54
Looked thru all 5 pages.....very good info, but nothing referencing my load/bullet.

Not new to reloading, just the 10mm.

Picked up 2K of Penn 180 gr lfp bullets. Have decided (initially) on using Longshot.

Does anyone have any loads or experience with this or other lead 180's?


Sorry to revive an old thread, but thought the "LongShot" thread would be the best place. Thanks, Tracy

gofastman
04-28-2013, 11:07
9.2grs LS + 180gr bullet = magic

Do you have a chrony?
9.3 may get you a tad more velocity because you are using lead (less pressure) but I think that will be about all you can get unless you are willing to go well over published load data. longshot is a bit funny that way

Just for future knowledge, try some WSF powder next time, It wont net the high velocity LS does, but its about the best lead bullet powder I have found (actually freakshow10mm suggested it to me)

tsp45acp
04-28-2013, 13:04
9.2grs LS + 180gr bullet = magic

Do you have a chrony?
9.3 may get you a tad more velocity because you are using lead (less pressure) but I think that will be about all you can get unless you are willing to go well over published load data. longshot is a bit funny that way

Just for future knowledge, try some WSF powder next time, It wont net the high velocity LS does, but its about the best lead bullet powder I have found (actually freakshow10mm suggested it to me)

Thanks.

Yes I have a chrony, but it is very few and far between times that I get to use it. :crying:

I searched thru some members loads from a different forum and came up with 8.8 as a load. Pretty good "bang", and recoil feels comparable to Hornady 180XTP's and GA 165 JHP's. Brass has consistently been thrown in the 20' range......seems about avg from what I've read on several forums.

My Delta (bought used) came with a substantially greater mainspring than the #25 I run in my other 45's (all 1911's). I'm thinking it's close to a #30.....extremely hard to thumb cock by hand. I run a EGW flat bottom firing pin stop (no radius) in all my 1911's. I also use a Sprinco Recoil Reducing guide rod in all my guns (I keep all my 45's setup to run majority +P loads). This setup delays bbl unlocking and seems to reduce muzzle jump. Comes back hard into the palm of my hand, but muzzle stays down better making follow-up shots slightly faster.

Shooterisone
06-09-2013, 11:35
I have some Berry's plated 155. And I have some 180 lead.
I have read through the thread and have seen some load data. But want to get more recent load data? and reconfirm the listed loads still have good results. I will be using long shot of course. So what loads and info do we have ? Using lone wolf 6in barrel.

155 Berry's plated

180 lead

Thanks in advanced !

nickE10mm
06-09-2013, 11:40
I've contributed quite a bit myself and they are all still "good and valid" loads. Of course, do your own work ups in YOUR PLATFORM to validate.

Word to the wise with Berry's bullets. Most say don't push them too hard - MY take is that, if you're pushing them harder, use the minimum amount of crimp as you can get away with. CRIMP is what shears off the plating; velocity, not as much. Just my experience.

For the cast, make sure the bullets you're firing are at LEAST .001 over groove diameter of your barrel to reduce or eliminate leading

Have fun!

nickE10mm
06-09-2013, 11:41
Btw. A favorite field load for me is a 180gr flat nose cast over 8.8gr LS. lethal, powerful and accurate.

Shooterisone
06-09-2013, 12:01
Thank you for the info! Yes I saw a post on here at a 155 plated using LS ---AT 11.5 -12.5 at 1450fps??

nickE10mm
06-09-2013, 12:44
Thank you for the info! Yes I saw a post on here at a 155 plated using LS ---AT 11.5 -12.5 at 1450fps??

Sounds like a little much on the powder but I don't have my log with me ... I know 10.0gr with a 165 is HOT. But you may be right ...
I'd have to check.

Also, most of MY data on this thread is out of my fully supported 6" long slide 1911 so the number will be a bit higher

Shooterisone
06-09-2013, 13:04
Yes that would be great thank you.

Shooterisone
06-27-2013, 20:50
Would any one happen to have 135 grain lead data for long shot?

_The_Shadow
06-27-2013, 21:45
You could start at 11.2 grains LS using standard primers, McNett worked to 13.2 grains @ 1542fps using CCI 350's in post number 2 of the Hodgdon powder section, so work very meticulously if you venture higher...

Shooterisone
06-28-2013, 20:56
Good deal thank u

SDGlock23
07-14-2013, 12:32
A few from yesterday and today, both using 1x Starline brass and CCI LP primers. Velocities posted are averages.
(Shot from Gen4 Glock 20 over tripod mounted and leveled Chrony F1)

180gr PD FMJ, 9.5gr Longshot @ 1.250": 1,237 fps (7 fps ES!)
180gr PD FMJ, 10.0gr Longshot @ 1.250": 1,281 fps (17 fps ES)

PD FMJ = Precision Delta full metal jacket. Both were very consistent and not too bad overall. Brass wasn't bad, slight bulging but not smileys. Looking back over my notes, a few years back 9.5gr got me 1,260 from my then 20SF, so there's probably some barrel variations there and possible temperature differences too, plus back then I used Fed LP primers and seated out to 1.260" instead. Not quite as good as 3N38, but all in all not bad for having almost 1,300 fps in the stock G20 Gen4.

SDGlock23
07-14-2013, 18:34
Another one, same setup as above

135gr Nosler JHP, 13.5gr Longshot @ 1.250": 1,548 fps (21 fps ES)

SDGlock23
08-18-2013, 12:24
Just one, using the the Gen4 Glock 20 10mm (stock gun, 1x PMC brass, WIN LP primers):

180gr Z-cast, 5.8gr HP38 @ 1.260":1,080 fps (1 fps ES)

It's not too often to see a 1 fps extreme spread, but I did today. I didn't have very many loaded, maybe that's why it stayed so low, but it was pleasant nonetheless. The Z-cast 180gr does lead a little, but I wasn't shooting a bunch of them either. For a cheap bullet they're not bad, not great, but not horrible either. This load is a little smokey, but nothing like TG, plus the Z-cast bullet has a lot (to the point of excess) lube.

nickE10mm
08-22-2013, 16:15
Just one, using the the Gen4 Glock 20 10mm (stock gun, 1x PMC brass, WIN LP primers):

180gr Z-cast, 5.8gr HP38 @ 1.260":1,080 fps (1 fps ES)

It's not too often to see a 1 fps extreme spread, but I did today. I didn't have very many loaded, maybe that's why it stayed so low, but it was pleasant nonetheless. The Z-cast 180gr does lead a little, but I wasn't shooting a bunch of them either. For a cheap bullet they're not bad, not great, but not horrible either. This load is a little smokey, but nothing like TG, plus the Z-cast bullet has a lot (to the point of excess) lube.

My main target load is 6.0gr HP38 under a 180gr RNFP cast bullet. I DO tumble-lube them in Alox & mineral spirits (50/50) and let them dry overnight to reduce leading...

That load routinely groups better than ANY other load I use for target.... 1-1.5" 25y groups are common with my Fusion longslide.

nickster1
10-28-2013, 21:06
I'm kind of new to reloading 10mm but I finally got a chronograph so I figured I'd post my first results. I've been playing with Longshot a bit and I've worked my way up to this load.

Glock 20, 4.6" KKM, 20lb. spring
180gr Zero JHP
9.2gr Longshot
WLP primers
New Starline brass
oal @ 1.262

Prochrono Digital set @ 10ft.
9 shot average: 1301 fps /676 ft-lbs
Hi: 1316
Low: 1291
ES: 25
SD:8

This load felt good to shoot. Temp was 42 degrees. Brass was slightly bulged, and primers were beginning to flatten a bit. Don't know if I should go further with this load. Does the velocity seem a bit high for 9.2gr.? Maybe the type of bullets I used or the winchester primers? I notice a lot of guys here use CCI.

WeeWilly
10-28-2013, 22:37
I'm kind of new to reloading 10mm but I finally got a chronograph so I figured I'd post my first results. I've been playing with Longshot a bit and I've worked my way up to this load.

Glock 20, 4.6" KKM, 20lb. spring
180gr Zero JHP
9.2gr Longshot
WLP primers
New Starline brass
oal @ 1.262

Prochrono Digital set @ 10ft.
9 shot average: 1301 fps /676 ft-lbs
Hi: 1316
Low: 1291
ES: 25
SD:8

This load felt good to shoot. Temp was 42 degrees. Brass was slightly bulged, and primers were beginning to flatten a bit. Don't know if I should go further with this load. Does the velocity seem a bit high for 9.2gr.? Maybe the type of bullets I used or the winchester primers? I notice a lot of guys here use CCI.

The velocity does seem a little hot for 9.2grs. Last strings I shot I needed to go to about 9.5-9.6gr of LS to get above 1300fps with a 180gr FMJ out of a stock length barrel. I usually have the chrony a little farther away just because of lighting conditions, so that may be part of it.

nickster1
10-29-2013, 10:11
Here's a few primer shots of the 9.2 Longshot load. Looking at them again I'm guessing they don't look too bad. Like I said, I'm new to reloading the 10mm, and have only been reloading for a couple years all together. I really like this load and want to continue to shoot it if it looks relatively safe.

http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p266/silvernickster/20131029_114428-1_zpsae82cacb.jpg

http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p266/silvernickster/20131029_114219-1_zps82fdcbd7.jpg
Sent from my SCH-I545 using Ohub Campfire mobile app

WeeWilly
10-29-2013, 18:34
The primers look fine, I expect you will see more flattening if you move up higher into the 9.5-9.6 range. I shoot my loads out of a stock barrel, so even at 9.2, I am seeing some more bulge than you seem to be showing. At 9.6 the bulge is getting easily noticeable. No smiles, but the belly is noticeable.

I also start getting some pretty pronounced extractor rash on the rims as I moved up to 9.4 and above area.

Have fun.

Taterhead
10-29-2013, 18:49
I'm kind of new to reloading 10mm but I finally got a chronograph so I figured I'd post my first results. I've been playing with Longshot a bit and I've worked my way up to this load.

Glock 20, 4.6" KKM, 20lb. spring
180gr Zero JHP
9.2gr Longshot
WLP primers
New Starline brass
oal @ 1.262

Prochrono Digital set @ 10ft.
9 shot average: 1301 fps /676 ft-lbs
Hi: 1316
Low: 1291
ES: 25
SD:8

This load felt good to shoot. Temp was 42 degrees. Brass was slightly bulged, and primers were beginning to flatten a bit. Don't know if I should go further with this load. Does the velocity seem a bit high for 9.2gr.? Maybe the type of bullets I used or the winchester primers? I notice a lot of guys here use CCI.

That velocity sounds high. That load doesn't really run fast in my G20. 9.3 grains chronies about 1180 fps with a 180 XTP. Different bullet and barrel, but that seems like a big difference. I'd be inclined to move back another 5 feet from the chrony and try again, if you have extra rounds available. Some loads need a bunch of extra room or there is some interference.

From what I can see in the photo, I don't see any abnormal condition of the brass.

nickster1
10-29-2013, 18:51
Thanks for your help WeeWilly. I think I'm going to stay at 9.2 for the time being and have fun with that. I seem to be getting some good velocity and accuracy with this load. Later on, maybe I"ll bump it up .1-.2gr and see how that goes. Thanks again.

nickster1
10-29-2013, 19:12
That velocity sounds high. That load doesn't really run fast in my G20. 9.3 grains chronies about 1180 fps with a 180 XTP. Different bullet and barrel, but that seems like a big difference. I'd be inclined to move back another 5 feet from the chrony and try again, if you have extra rounds available. Some loads need a bunch of extra room or there is some interference.

From what I can see in the photo, I don't see any abnormal condition of the brass.

After I chrono'd the 9.2 longshot loads that day I did some 10.2gr blue dot loads as well. Same type of brass, bullet, primer and oal. These averaged 1185 fps which seems right according to one of my manuals. Don't know why the longshot loads were smoking. I still have some rounds left from the same batch. When I go back to the range I'll try moving the chrony back a little and retest. Thanks.

SDGlock23
11-09-2013, 17:29
10mm data in .40 S&W brass, in my Gen4 Glock 20 with 6" KKM .40 S&W barrel:

(1x Winchester .40 S&W brass, CCI SP primers)

200gr XTP, 8.5gr Longshot @ 1.250": 1,302 fps (28 fps ES)

200gr XTP, 8.8gr Longshot @ 1.250": 1,294 fps (25 fps ES)

200gr XTP, 9.0gr Longshot @ 1.250": 1,338 fps (54 fps ES)

nickE10mm
11-09-2013, 18:00
Wow, SD! I've ran those same loads from a fully supported 10mm barrel and cases and, to my estimate, even THOSE loads were probably over SAAMI spec.

Obviously, those same loads in a .40SW case will result in significantly higher pressure (all else being equal, that is).

Be careful!

_The_Shadow
11-09-2013, 19:23
10mm data in .40 S&W brass, in my Gen4 Glock 20 with 6" KKM .40 S&W barrel:

(1x Winchester .40 S&W brass, CCI SP primers)

200gr XTP, 8.5gr Longshot @ 1.250": 1,302 fps (28 fps ES)

200gr XTP, 8.8gr Longshot @ 1.250": 1,294 fps (25 fps ES)

200gr XTP, 9.0gr Longshot @ 1.250": 1,338 fps (54 fps ES)

Considering the 40S&W length is 1.1350"...Did you have the throat of the 40S&W barrel modified to accept long loaded (1.250") bullets in 40S&W cases? :dunno:

SDGlock23
11-10-2013, 07:47
Shadow, the KKM barrel has a long throat in it from the factory, allowing the use of long loaded .40 S&W, they drop right on in like butter. It must be a KKM thing because even my G23 KKM barrel will accept 10mm length .40's (and so did the G24 KKM barrel I had prior) essentially making it a single shot 10mm.

Nick, I had loaded up some 10mm 200gr XTP with 8.5gr LS in the stock G20 barrel and didn't notice any signs, which is .3gr above book, but it really shot quite well and even from the stock barrel I didn't see anything out of the ordinary. I've never seen any problems exceeding book max Longshot by .5gr in the stock barrels in .40 and 10mm, but I generally end it there, at least in stock barrels.

With the better support of the KKM barrel and being able to load the .40 long, I was just curious what the outcome would be. Not too long ago I had shot some 180gr XTP's in the same 6" .40 conversion barrel using 10.0gr Longshot loaded to 1.250" and averaged a little better than 1450 fps, which is more than what I see as necessary but the same load in 10mm from the G20 hovers around 1300 fps.

I'm not sure using .40 brass is going to make the pressures higher as the same OAL is used as the 10mm. I have no reason to believe it would be significantly higher, or higher at all, but the above loads did shoot well and the brass didn't exhibit any signs. With that said, I don't plan on going higher since I think a 200gr XTP at 1300 fps is plenty fast!

_The_Shadow
11-10-2013, 08:36
SDGlock23, Thanks for your explanation, it fits what I expected, based on the loaded lengths you were describing for the barrel being used.
Best regards...

SDGlock23
11-16-2013, 17:40
Just one, from the Gen4 G20 with 4.6" KKM barrel

1x Midway brass and CCI LP primers

200gr XTP, 9.0gr Longshot @ 1.250": 1,237 fps avg (10 fps ES)

nickE10mm
11-20-2013, 17:06
Just one, from the Gen4 G20 with 4.6" KKM barrel

1x Midway brass and CCI LP primers

200gr XTP, 9.0gr Longshot @ 1.250": 1,237 fps avg (10 fps ES)

That same load in my 6" Fusion longslide does 1300fps on the nose Took a nice buck with that load last season, too.

SDGlock23
11-21-2013, 09:35
That's awesome Nick! I love the 200gr XTP, even more so around 1250-1300 fps.

nickE10mm
11-21-2013, 09:40
That's awesome Nick! I love the 200gr XTP, even more so around 1250-1300 fps.

Its a MONSTER load. Some have gone even higher in charge weight but I honestly see no point. No difference in penetration or expansion with only 25 more fps (9.4gr, 6" bbl, CCI300, new brass, fully supported bbl, all that jazz). Even with all that velocity, the XTP holds together and peels uniformly down its shank. Very nice bullet.

Safer and more accurate is the name of the game. 8.2gr is a dang good load, too. Same bullet.

_The_Shadow
06-15-2014, 15:09
Tested the 10mm with CFE Pistol Powder today with the following
135 grain HST over 10.2 grains CFE Pistol seated to 1.2500"
CCI 350 primer Star*-*Line Brass (used but pass-through reconditioned)
Velocity 1672 fps from the Glock 20 factory barrel, Wolff non captive recoil rod & 22lb spring. Max case expansion is 0.4325"
Hodgdon shows 1551 fps in the book...

I'll have to test more for consistency, but I was impressed with this loading performance, pressures were easy on the brass, powder burned cleanly. ;D

nickE10mm
06-15-2014, 15:11
Impressive performance!!!

ILannoyed
08-15-2014, 19:46
Tested the 10mm with CFE Pistol Powder today with the following
135 grain HST over 10.2 grains CFE Pistol seated to 1.2500"
CCI 350 primer Star*-*Line Brass (used but pass-through reconditioned)
Velocity 1672 fps from the Glock 20 factory barrel, Wolff non captive recoil rod & 22lb spring. Max case expansion is 0.4325"
Hodgdon shows 1551 fps in the book...

I'll have to test more for consistency, but I was impressed with this loading performance, pressures were easy on the brass, powder burned cleanly. ;D

Very cool. I'd be curious to see the performance one could get with other bullet weights. I just snagged 2lbs myself. Trying to determine what calibers to load with it.

tilefish
10-03-2014, 20:41
Based on my Hornady manual, they are being very conservative listing 7.3 gr of Longshot as max charge for a 200 gr XTP

lightjunkie
11-22-2014, 17:58
I have a question about the CCI magnum primers vs.the CCI Large pistol primers, when do you use the CCI magnum primers? I have just started hand loading and using 9.0 grs, of longshot,180gr.cor-lokts Rainier fmj Starline brass with COL of 1.256 I would like to know when do I swith to magnum primers?
Thanks or any answers in advance

_The_Shadow
11-22-2014, 21:02
LongShot is a fairly dense powder and it can benefit from the use of a magnum primer.
Just understand that the pressures will be greater, how ever your load should be fine using the CCI 350

lightjunkie
11-22-2014, 21:30
Thanks Shadow can it be run in a stock Glock?

_The_Shadow
11-22-2014, 22:05
I don't see why not, I have run 9.4 LS with CCI350 using 200gr XTP's...OVER that the smiles may show (I use a 22lbs recoil setup in my G20.

lightjunkie
11-22-2014, 23:33
Thank you shadow, you think I'll be safe with 9.0 grs of Longshot and 180 grs?

lightjunkie
11-24-2014, 00:00
Okay thanks I just wanted to make sure before running through my stock Glock Without a fully supported. Chamber, I did. Want to mention my son and I ran all 200 rounds of my 9.0 grs of Longshot and it hand a lot more recoil than any factory rounds I have ever ran through it before but it was much more accurate than any factory loads .