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MCNETT
08-25-2003, 20:16
Use this thread for posting IMR powder data.

MCNETT
08-25-2003, 20:19
Sunny afternoon 65F 5000ft. Sounds like a good time to bring out my summer CCW. I ran some bullets over the chrono today, here is how it shook out. This is from my stock G29

All handloads are 1.26"OAL CCI LP MAG primers avg. 5 shots use caution PLEASE!

180XTP 10.8 800X - 1263fps
135 Nosler JHP 13.5 800X - 1543fps
135 Nosler JHP 14.5 800X - 1596fps
220 West Coast FP 9.0 800X - 1093fps

PLEASE drop all of my loads by 2.0gr and work up in .5gr increments until pressure signs raise their ugly head, then back off by .5gr! Hope this helps.
-Mike

MCNETT
08-25-2003, 20:30
here are a couple of the results from the 10"T/C:
AVG 10 shots Starline cases, CCI 350, 1.26" OAL
135gr Nosler 14.5gr 800X- 2022fps 42,000psi
10.0gr 800X 200XTP - 1552fps 38,500psi

SAAMI max is now 37,500psi.
This outing was a whole lot of fun, with the 10"bbl I can get .44mag ballistics from my 10mm! The 135 EXPLODES milk jugs at that speed!
-Mike

MCNETT
08-25-2003, 20:40
7.7 800-x/ Precision 220: 1143fps
same WC: 1133fps

8.2 800-x/ Precision 220: 1181fps
same WC: 1160

The 800x loads were like heavy .40 loads, nice shooting. 8.2 800x shot the best group at 25yds 1.3" bench rest. All velocities are an avg. of 5 shots over my chrono. The temp was 30f and elevation was 5800ft. OAL was 1.26".
I have info on other loads that I tried if anyone is interested.



WC= West Coast 220, PB= Precision Bullet.

All loads use CCI 350 primers and 1.26" OAL
9.0gr 800X WC220 - 1144fps from my G20 40F
9.5gr 800X PB220 - 1237fps G20 40F
9.5gr 800X PB220 - 1329fps 6"KKM 40F
9.0gr 800X WC220 - 1098fps G29 65F

cheygriz
09-19-2003, 16:29
McNett,

Do you have any data with 155 gr bullets?

TIA!

MCNETT
09-19-2003, 20:06
1.26" OAL CCI 350 primers
155gr GDHP 10.2gr 800X - 1356fps (6"KKM)
155gr GDHP 12.3gr 800X - 1465fps (G20), 1578fps (6"KKM)

These are the most accurate loads that I developed with 800X.
-Mike

cheygriz
09-20-2003, 13:29
Thanks, Mike! I appreciate the help.

spongeman66
10-02-2003, 20:16
I got a little lost digging through the loads/guns/bullet weights, etc...
So, I put together a summary spreadsheet of the 800X loads listed in the posts above. Please forgive me if I have a typo.
Sponge

Lone Wolff
10-16-2003, 16:02
Thanks Spongeman66....I was just getting ready to create one of my own, but you beat me to it.

bdc
10-18-2003, 11:41
A little extra observation about 800-X loads to suplement Mr. McNett's good work:

In used Winchester and Federal brass, my G-29 will not Glocksmile (ruin the brass) if the powder charge energy is 675 fLbs or less.

With new Winchester brass, it requires 775 fLbs of energy to Glocksmile the brass.

Website: http://data.hodgdon.com/main_menu.asp

Grip reduction: http://glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=13213462#post13213462

Training and Targets: www.glockfaq.com www.sportshooter.com www.mytargets.com www.tackdriver.com Be sure to explore the links!

bdc
10-19-2003, 12:45
I like full throttle loads. Thanks to Mike McNett who found horsepower to spare with 800-X.

Still, I think loads should be taylored for barrel length. Often a faster powder optimizes a shorter barrel for all around performance.

Consider Mike's 135gr. JHP, 14.5gr 800-X load:

10" barrel, 2022 f/s, 1225 fLbs, PF273, 42 kpsi
5" barrel, 1670 f/s, 836 fLbs, PF 225, 33.1 kpsi per Hodgdon Manual
3.8" barrel, 1596 f/s, 763 fLbs, PF 215, G-29 length.

Clearly slow burning 800-X is efficient in long barrels as presure is increasing with barrel length.

There is a fixed amount of energy in each grain of 800-X. That energy can be computed referencing bullet weight and velocity. If 14.5 gr 800-X completely burns in a 10" barrel, then 462 fLbs of energy is detrimentally expended just beyound a G-29 muzzel. (Blast, flash, soot, smoke, increased perceived recoil (rocket exhaust), and sometimes bullet upset.)

In theory, 9.13gr 800-X within a shortend OAL cartrige will perform similarly to the posted load. (Don't try this at home - much shorter than a 40SW.) That is 5.47gr 800-X wasted, 38% of the 14.5gr charge weight.

You can see why www.imrpowder.com data for 800-X is so low presure, since their technicians are concerned that most of the powder burns.

All factory loads are subject to the same analysis. I am still searching for the best over all G-29 loads.

Slower moving, heavier bullets are often more efficient in short barrels. Heavier bullets are under presure for a relatively longer time inside any barrel than lighter faster velocity bullets.

If a MAXIMUM power faster burning powder can't be found, a lower charge of a slower burning powder with a more powerfull primer may be the answer for short barreled pistols.

Too bad Glock striker mechanisms are so light and weak. Rifle primers have some potential for 10mm maximum loads.

We need to have Starline produce 10mm brass with an extended and reinforced web and a rifle primer pocket.

Hawk45
11-01-2003, 14:43
What is considered a Hot load (fps?)... I am using a standard G20. Right now I am reloading with 800x and love it. I don't have a chrono but would like to work with some hotter loads. I am using Rainear and Berrys 180gr and 200gr... mostly 180 gr. Also what is the most efficient load you have found? Right now I am using 7.7gr on 180gr RS Berrys and feels like a standard .40 round.

bdc
11-03-2003, 14:10
Velocity does not determine a "Hot" load.

Presure in excess of SAAMI standards is technically a +P(resure) load. SAAMI does not establish a +P level for all cartridges. The increased presure level is on the order of 10% on the cartridges I have researched. I have never seen SAAMI +P+ presure standard data.

For a politically correct interpretation of +P loads, call 1-800-IMRDATA or any of the Powder/Bullet manufacturers tech hot lines to get the company line.

I can tell you from my imprecise, small sample, with assumption about powder burn rate, mathematical investigation of one large manufacturers +P and +P+ loads: +P is less than 7% increase in powder charge over SAAMI max. +P+ is less than 12% increase in powder charge over SAAMI max. Many handloaders push the envelope further than factory loads.

McNetts loads are the top of the heap in velocity, power, and momentum. They are not +P loads generally, though his 180gr BJHP 10.8gr 800-X is.

MCNETT
11-03-2003, 18:44
For those of you using Beatooth WFN 200gr. bullets:
With each load, you should drop 1gr and work up:
Starline brass CCI 350primers 1.26"OAL
10.0gr 800X - 1380fps 6"KKM
10.0gr 800X - 1272fps G20
Either of these loads should make an excellent hog bullet.
-Mike

beck
11-06-2003, 11:26
hello,
first time glocktalker, soon to be first time handloader.
sweet forum.
thanks for all this info.

Can I use HDY 155 in place of the GDHP ?

thanks,
chris beck




Originally posted by MCNETT
1.26" OAL CCI 350 primers
155gr GDHP 10.2gr 800X - 1356fps (6"KKM)
155gr GDHP 12.3gr 800X - 1465fps (G20), 1578fps (6"KKM)

These are the most accurate loads that I developed with 800X.
-Mike

SDBettas
11-11-2003, 12:21
Took out the new CED Millennium Chronograph today to run some new loads through it. I was working with some loads that Mcnett gave me for hogs. These were done in Miami at sea level about 83F. 5 Shot averages

G20 6"KKM: 22lb Recoil Spring and Stainless Guide Rod
200Gr Beartooth Gas Checked Flat Points
CCI 350 LP Mag Primers - firm taper crimp
9.0gr 800X 200 BTFP - 1264fps-709ft/lbs
9.3gr 800X 200 BTFP - 1293fps-742ft/lbs
9.6gr 800X 200 BTFP - 1327fps-782ft/lbs
9.8gr 800X 200 BTFP - 1370fps-833ft/lbs
10.0gr 800X 200 BTFP - 1393fps-862ft/lbs

duckslayer79
12-06-2003, 13:06
Hello all,

Just thought I would share a really good load with yall. I have been shooting my Glock 20 (stock barrel) with a Montana Gold 180 FMJ TC with 8.7 grains of IMR 800-X seated at 1.260". That is one accurate paper killer;f.

Velocity is 1210 FPS at 30,000 PSI. That is on the light side. This was pulled from my load book (Modern Reloading by Richard Lee 2nd Edition) if you want to look.

25 yards free hand no wind 10 round 2.5" groups ~2

Take Care
"duck"

Tito
12-22-2003, 09:33
Has anone chrono'd 200 g, XTPs over 10.0g of 800x in G20 or G29 with standard length barrels?

spongeman66
12-31-2003, 08:05
Tito,
I got 1215 FPS Average in my G20, and 1300 FPS from my Jarvis 6".

Tito
12-31-2003, 08:47
Thanks Sponge.

I loaded some, but haven't had a chance to chrono because I shot one of my chrono screens with my S&W 360 Ti (squirrelly little bastard will not be replacing my G27 for front pocket carry)and haven't gotten around to ordering a new one yet.

I'm thinking this may be a good winter time carry load in G29 (KKM) and G20 (Barstow), however I need to get to the range first and do some shooting with it.

Does 800x have a lot of flash!? I may want to try some low-flash powder instead for (god forbid) night time work.

spongeman66
12-31-2003, 10:20
I would consider 800X to be medium to low flash. Nothing like Blue Dot for flash, and a little more flash than the DoubleTap powder.
Sponge

Tito
03-09-2004, 12:28
Hey Spongeman:

I can't open your McNett 800x spreadsheet. If I try to open it, I get a message that it has "been corrupted or no longer exists." If I try to save it I get a message that my computer doesn't recognize the program that created it.

Any suggestions?

Nevermind, I figured it out. Thanks!

rickyj
04-04-2004, 21:33
Does 700x burn too fast or create too much pressure?

Sorry, posted this in the main place too, just can't delete it out of here, won't let me.

duckslayer79
04-05-2004, 05:23
How about some favorites for IMR 4756?

Take Care
"duck"

Ascaris
06-01-2004, 19:34
Anyone have any load data for 800x and 165-gr bullets?

Cortland
06-11-2004, 21:27
I tested some 220 gr. LTCs today with my Shooting Chrony. Velocities are at sea level, 80 deg., 100% humidity.

All loads are 220 gr. LTCs, IMR 800X, Starline cases, Winchester WLP, Witness w/ 4.5" barrel, average of 5 shot groups:

6.0 - 885
6.5 - 952
7.0 - 997
7.5 - 1032
8.0 - 1072
8.5 - 1116
9.0 - 1147
9.5 - 1189

Leading was pretty heavy when I was finished.

BuffaloBo
07-10-2004, 17:42
Went to the range and Chrono-ed some Winchester 180 FMJ's over some 800x using CCI 350's and Remington nickle cases.
COL was at 1.250"
Gun used was a stock G20 except for a 22lb Wolff Spring.

All results were based on samples of 10 firings:

8.7 gr 800x
Average: 1168 FPS
Standard Dev: 22
Hi: 1212
Lo: 1139


9.0 gr 800X
Average: 1208 FPS
Standard Dev: 32
Hi: 1242
Lo: 1152

9.3 gr 800X
Average: 1253 FPS
Standard Dev: 43
Hi: 1318
Lo: 1190


I had one SERIOUS glock smiley from the 9.3 gr sample. Also, about half of the primers were very flattened from the 9.3 gr sample. From the other samples there weren't any noticeably bulged cases.


-BuffaloBo

BuffaloBo
08-03-2004, 18:48
Some new data today.
Same vartiables as above EXCEPT 5" KKM barrel and only one sample @ 9.3gr IMR-800X


1294
1286
1272
1250
1268
1279
1273
1261
1238
1332

Avg: 1275
Std Dev: 26


Cases look fine thanks to the KKM barrel. I'll try to bump up the powder charge next time.

BuffaloBo

BuffaloBo
08-11-2004, 21:40
Some new data today.
Same variables as above EXCEPT 5" KKM barrel and two samples @ 9.5 and 9.7 grains.


(9.5 gr IMR-800X)
Avg: 1289
Std Dev: 34
Hi: 1374
Lo: 1252

(9.7 gr IMR-800X)
Avg: 1326
Std Dev: 22
Hi: 1366
Lo: 1284


Some primers do appear "flattened". Numbers are very good, though.

BuffaloBo
08-22-2004, 17:39
If anybody here, like myself, shoots 357 SIG from a G20 with the appropriate aftermarket barrel, I have some data here to share.


G20 with Federal barrel(standard length)
124 gr Speer Gold Dot
Speer Cases
CCI Primers
10.0C IMR 800-X
COL about 29.5mm


A five shot group produced:

Avg: 1449
Std Dev: 13
Hi: 1467
Lo: 1434

Cases appear not to be bulged at all. Primers appear normal.

spongeman66
08-22-2004, 19:38
BuffaloBo
Bullet weight and COL for the 357 Sig?

BuffaloBo
08-22-2004, 21:55
Sorry, my bad. 124 gr Speer Gold Dot at a COL of about 29.5mm
Sorry about the metric measure, but it's a lot easier to read and decipher than 32nth's of an inch.

As you may know, the beauty of 357 SIG on the 10 mm platform is the latitude of COL's available. You can load'em long if you need to, because the mags are accomodating . I'm pretty sure I could have made the COL shorter in this loading. I didn't feel any abnormal resistance or see any bullet deformation as a symptom of powder compression.

BuffaloBo
09-02-2004, 18:00
Some new data today.

Glock 20
5" KKM barrel
CCI 350 magnum primers
200 gr Hornady FMJ FP
IMR 800-X


(7 shot sample)
7.8 gr IMR 800-X
Avg: 1105
Std Dev: 23
Hi: 1138
Lo: 1063

(7 shot sample)
8.1 gr IMR 800-X
Avg: 1143
Std Dev: 23
Hi: 1173
Lo: 1112


Some observations:

I'm a little disappointed with these results. I guessed these loads would have done better. Well anyways, the cases and primers appeared normal. I suppose there is some room to load them hotter next time.

Tito
09-14-2004, 09:12
I chrono'd 200g. XTPs over 10.0g of 800x through my G29 this past weekend and averaged just about 1250 fps. (KKM barrel and 22lb Wolf Spring).

The primer pushed itself into the firing pin hole, leaving a raised square area on the primer.

I was recieving velocities that I had anticipated with other loads, using other guns, and therefore believe this was legit.

Medpilot 2
09-14-2004, 10:09
Originally posted by Tito

The primer pushed itself into the firing pin hole, leaving a raised square area on the primer.


Wow, I've never seen that before. I guess that would be the time to step it down a notch.;)

Tito
09-14-2004, 10:39
Yeah, the primer didn't unseat itself, it just left a raised rectangular impression around the firing pin indentation.;P
Apprx. 2mm high and 1mm wide

BuffaloBo
09-26-2004, 14:11
Originally posted by Tito

The primer pushed itself into the firing pin hole, leaving a raised square area on the primer.

What you speak of is quite normal with hotter than usual loads. One needs to be concerned when then primer is flush with the base and appears very flat.

saands
10-12-2005, 15:04
Originally posted by MCNETT
here are a couple of the results from the 10"T/C:
AVG 10 shots Starline cases, CCI 350, 1.26" OAL
135gr Nosler 14.5gr 800X- 2022fps 42,000psi
10.0gr 800X 200XTP - 1552fps 38,500psi

SAAMI max is now 37,500psi.
This outing was a whole lot of fun, with the 10"bbl I can get .44mag ballistics from my 10mm! The 135 EXPLODES milk jugs at that speed!
-Mike

I can't tell you how happy I was to find this forum! I think that it is really cool that the pros are willing to share their data ... and I was really stoked to see actual pressure numbers for the 135gr load ... but then it occurred to me that they were too far over 37.5kpsi for me to want to go there. They do serve as a good boundary for me not to cross, but are there any measured 800X pressures for 135gr Noslers that are a little closer to the SAAMI max?

Thanks so much,

Saands

Rigormootis
11-17-2005, 08:19
Hi guys.

I have been reading that some of you have had some success in tweaking your Uniflow measures to handle 800x reasonable well (used w/ the small cylinder, baffle, and kept mostly full at all times)...

That said, mine is not working so well.

So, while I am inclined to continue to play with it, I thought I'd ask if any here are using an electronic powder scale/dispenser for 800x. It seems to me that powder drop should meter based on weight...not volume...correct? If so, this seems like a naturally better way to meter out 800x.

Thoughts?

saands
11-17-2005, 08:26
I'm currently trickling/weighing each charge by hand ;g but I'm thinking that the electronic approach will be my Christmas present ...

Saands

ppro
11-19-2005, 21:58
Rigormootis

What sort of variation are you getting with the 800x through the measure?

I have been running it through my Dillion and accuracy is good, but I have not really wanted to check the variation...gotta be ugly with those giant flakes (at least it should be).

Iv'e got to chrono some loads pretty soon and that will tell the story I'm sure.

Whats the best measure recourse....go to a taller/smaller powder column (rather than wider shorter column?

regards

Paul

Rigormootis
11-20-2005, 09:24
Hi Paul.

When my column isn't nearly full and I forget to tap it before the throw, I have been off as much as .2 gr. To me (and I assume most others), that's WAY too much. The recently installed baffel helps, but I haven't come to trust it yet. Under the best conditions and when I'm doing my part, It's much better...but I have resorted to weighing each charge now when I use 800x. I haven't completely given up, but since my mother-in-law is bugging me about what she should get me for X-Mas (bless her soul ;) ), I have been seriously thinking of hinting towards a electronic scale/dispenser.

ppro
11-20-2005, 23:29
Rigormootis

Sorry, I wasn't very clear...what I was wondering, was if the diameter of the metering bar (column or cylinder or what have you) made any difference. I know that large diameter bars can be a problem for smaller charges and if I remember right, thats why you want to use the small bar for the smaller charges in the Dillion, to help with consistancy. You could use the larger bar and reduce the chamber area, but it just doesn't throw as consistant. Also why you want to use the RCBS pistol measure head, rather than the rifle head....same reason.

But I haven't messed with the 800X that much to see what kind of difference it makes. As large as the flakes are, I am thinking it will help some, but that it will be good enough, I don't know. I am using the small powder bar now, in my Dillion for the 10mm but I bet it's none to good due to the flake size. I DO watch for a powder bridge with 800x...I think you could hang a charge or part there of, with this powder. Possibly not, but I wouldn't want to bank on it.

Your probably right in saying the best solution may be the electronic settup.

Sounds like a very nice mother-in-law....that's as good as it gets !

Paul

Rigormootis
11-21-2005, 15:16
Got it. I actually am using the smaller bar...but the combo of it and the baffle does actually seem to be working better. To some extent, I am also just looking for a new toy. ;) Yep, my in-laws are pretty great.

Lennyjoe
05-24-2006, 23:49
Shot some 180gr XTP's over 10.0gr of 800X and CCI mag primers out of the new 6" Storm Lake barrel in the G20 today.

Temp was 85 degrees, 2100ft elevation.

30 round average was 1420 fps. If my math is correct that equals 806 fpe.

No pressure signs at all.

ppro
05-26-2006, 23:18
Lennyjoe

AND NO Glock smiles :)

I have GOT to give that load a try......guess I should, with a gallon of 800X sitting here looking at me screaming load me, load me ! :freak:

Paul

Sturmcrow
06-23-2006, 16:49
1420fps?

That's a pretty ideal velocity. I know that the supersonic/subsonic transition doesn't matter as much for these wide, heavy bullets, but that's still supersonic at 100 yards :)

http://www.realguns.com/calc/exteriorballistics

Lennyjoe
07-04-2006, 14:01
Shot some more rounds today out of the 6" Storm lake barrel.

Elevation 1800ft, temp was 89 degrees.

180gr XTP over 10.5gr 800X and CCI mag primers. Only shot 5 of each.
1460
1439
1454
1469
1482

200gr XTP and 800X

9.0gr
1305
1317
1268
1278
1292

9.3gr
1328
1306
1306
1317
1312

9.6gr
1379
1335
1403
1395
1378

The 9.3gr load was the most accurate at 25yds. All brass and primers showed no signs of overpressure. The Storm Lake chamber give the brass little opportunity to expand due to its tight tolerance. No such thing as Glocksmiles with the Storm Lake barrel.

ppro
07-04-2006, 15:19
Lennyjoe

Nice job !

Darn it's hard to beat the performance of 800X

I too have yet to get smiles out of my Storm Lake barrels.

Takes a lot of the worry out of it for me.

thanks Lenny

nice data

Paul

Lennyjoe
07-04-2006, 23:15
Yea, the 9.6 gr averaged 1378fps and 843fpe!!! That's a pretty darn good hunting load in my eyes.

It was a joy to shoot today. Even with a 22lb spring the brass went flying about 15 feet. Guys next to me were getting a bit on edge with the blast and brass flight. :)

jmacelree
08-16-2006, 10:46
Originally posted by Lennyjoe

The 9.3gr load was the most accurate at 25yds.

Lennyjoe
I take it the accuracy remark dealt with the 200gr. XTP.

What kind of accuracy did you get with the 180gr. XTP @ 10gm 800X?

What is your most accurate 180gr. load?

Thanks
Jim

P.S. I am thinking little parachutes for the ejected brass would be good.:cool: Mine goes 15 to 20 feet from my EAA Witness. I like the all steel feel at these levels.

Glolt20-91
08-20-2006, 00:19
First time working with 800X and I like it, seems to soften up the muzzle flip.

G20 6"KKM, Win 1x, WLP, 10.1gr 800X, COAL 1.258", 90F, 50%+ RH (monsoon coolness with more humidity), 4200ft:

1398fps MV, 759fpe ME, ES 37fps, SD 13fps

No primer or extractor marks with 22# Wolfe spring; however, the steel recoil rod drops down one notch on the KKM barrel and I don't know why.

Bob

Sturmcrow
08-20-2006, 16:39
My steel recoil rod drops down a notch on my factory and stormlake barrels. I'm pretty sure the factory rod does too. I just thought that was normal.

fredj338
09-13-2006, 09:21
Lenny, do you have any idea what the pressures are in that 10.5gr/800x are running? It's got to be something like 45,000psi.:shocked: Time to start looking into a .41mag maybe??:thumbsup:

corey006
09-15-2006, 11:11
Finally got out to the range with the new chrony.

It worked well but I found I had to put it about 15 feet out so MUZZLE blast would not read....had a coulple of readings around 2200fps would be a nice veloctiy though for a 200 gr XTP out of a 10mm :blink:

These were all individually thrown charges then trickled off to get exact measurement.

Anyone trusting 800X through a meter and not weighing every single charge is asking for SERIOUS trouble......some of my thrown charges were 1 gr more than the average!!

Anyways here we go.

Witness 10mm Steel Fullsize(factory barrel)
Starline brass(new)
200 gr XTP
Imr 800X
1.258 OAL
CCI350(MAGNUM PRIMERS)
Lee Factory Crimp die(light crimp 1/2 turn)
43 degrees cold and windy.

8.8 1168(HI) 1103(LOW) 1132(avg)

8.9 1196 1119 1142

9.1 1174 1145 1160

9.3 1189 1149 1163

9.4 1203 1158 1173

9.5 1218 1182 1200

9.6 1228 1181 1210

None of the cases had any flattened primers. No excessive bulging either. I may try a .1 or .2 gr more but my absolute max will be 9.8. As stated before Mcnett's 10.0 gr load was in excess of SAAMI max and I will not even try it.

I fired off a total of 50 shots most grouped in about 3 inch circle 2 inchs above Point of Aim.

Still have a few FTF but this has greatly improved with tweaking of magazine mouth.


Witness 10mm Steel Fullsize(factory barrel)
Starline brass(new)
200 gr Montana Gold CMJ(complete metel jacket)
Imr 800X
CCI350(MAGNUM PRIMERS)
1.258 OAL
Lee Factory Crimp die(light crimp 1/2 turn)

I started this load off at 8.0 gr. but never chronoed it until 9.6.

9.6 1180(HI) 1173(LOW) 1178(AVG)

9.7 1225 1179 1203

9.8 1233 1183 1208

I had better cycling with this bullet and once again no flattened primers or excessively buldged cases. I may try 10.0 gr in this bullet because quite a bit shorter than the XTP.

This is my first experience with Montana Gold and they seemed to work fine at near maximum loads. Accuracy and grouping was much the same as the XTP.

I thought I might get a little better velocity than these numbers because I think the stock barrel on a Witness is actually 4.75 inchs which is slightly longer than on the Glock 20 factory barrel.

The lack of performance was probably due to colder temperatures?

Glolt20-91
10-27-2006, 00:29
The Lyman #55 dispenses 800X consistantly, just use a shallow setting for drop rather than a deep setting. I still measure individually on workups, but I found 800X consistant enough to measure every ten rounds for inventory; which is almost gone. :)

I may have some 200XTPs left so I'll try your recipes. :)

Bob

corey006
11-01-2006, 21:24
I was getting REASONABLE consistent metering with my RCBS Dandy little powder measure.

I used it for some practice rounds loaded with 8.0 gr of 800X.

To be safe though when doing the top-end loads I measure every throw individually...not like you are going to shoot MAX loads all day long...

One day I am going to invest in an electronic powder dispenser...:banana:

Sigmund79
08-15-2007, 17:25
Anyone have 800x Data for 165 GDHP's? The new speer manual does not have 800x data, I may switch to AA#9 for this round and use my 800x for my 200gr XTP's.

tggt05
08-29-2007, 22:18
Whew! Finally!!

Today I finally got to shoot some of my first ever reloads for the 10mm Auto. I have a G29 with 4.2" Storm Lake barrel.

I was able to shoot up to 10gr's of 800-X with no bad signs/symtpoms at all! (I shot 10 rounds and all the brass looked like the brass from my 7gr loadings, except more dented from the harder ejection).

Truth be told, I am amazed at how much of a ***** cat the G29 is... I was expecting the recoil to be much more than it turned out to be. It was almost pleasurable to shoot. Maybe it's the 21# Wolff spring helping that :D

Anyway, I'd like some ideas on velocity from at 4.2" barrel and the loads below or similar:

Winchester Brass - CCI LP Magnum Primers - 200gr Hornady XTP bullets - IMR 800-X - 1.26" OAL:

200gr & 9.3gr
200gr & 9.6gr
200gr & 9.8gr
200gr & 10 gr

(I shot all these loadings and more today... no problems at all.)

Note: Brass was brand new ;)

Thirdeye
10-14-2007, 10:17
Just thought Id contribute to the data pool.
Wanted to compare my new LWD 6" bbl to the factory bbl to see how much velocity increase I get as a function of load.

Attached is a JPEG with some cool plots.

%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%

Elevation(f) 5600
Temp(F) 56

Gun G20
Caliber 10mm
Powder 800X
Bullet 200g Horn. FMJ
Brass Virgin Starline
Primer WLP

Charge LWD 6" Fact 4.6"

8.0 1160.0 1111.0
8.0 1176.0 1138.0
8.0 1162.0 1122.0
8.0 1150.0 1114.0
8.0 1166.0 1092.0

Avg. 1162.8 1115.4
St.Dev 9.4 16.8

8.5 1240.0 1149.0
8.5 1211.0 1147.0
8.5 1211.0 1181.0
8.5 1183.0 1154.0
8.5 1254.0 1164.0

Avg. 1219.8 1159.0
St.Dev 27.8 13.9

9.0 1285.0 1196.0
9.0 1242.0 1210.0
9.0 1255.0 1209.0
9.0 1276.0 ?
9.0 1272.0 ?

Avg. 1266.0 1201.0
St.Dev 17.3 7.0

9.5 1320.0 1249.0
9.5 1332.0 1245.0
9.5 1315.0 1270.0
9.5 1325.0 1257.0
9.5 1327.0 1261.0

Avg. 1323.8 1256.4
St.Dev 6.5 9.9

10.0 1389.0
10.0 1376.0
10.0 1386.0
10.0 1388.0

Avg. 1384.8
St.Dev 6.0
%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%

Notice I have no 10.0g data with the factory bbl. I had a few glock smiles with the 9.5g loads so I opted not to fire the 10.0g loads from the factory bbl.

Thirdeye
10-14-2007, 11:36
Thought I would add that I also did some penetration tests with the 10.0g 800X rounds and the LWD bbl. OMG! 13 soaking wet phone books cascaded together for a total thickness of about 30". The 10.0g 800x load with 200g Hornady FMJ bullet almost penetrated through the entire bundle! It had about a quarter inch to go and it wouldve passed completely through! You can see wire bundle marks on the leftmost bullet. It hit the bundling wire somewhere near the middle of the stack. I also fired a .45acp Black Talon into the bundle. It penetrated a good 10-12" IIRC.

After these tests, I would have absolutely no reservations about using this 10mm round for all around woods protection in the lower 48.

I plan to do penetration tests with a 200g XTP next time. Same load, 10g 800x

http://i68.photobucket.com/albums/i39/TommyButtchin/3BulletsII.jpg

http://i68.photobucket.com/albums/i39/TommyButtchin/45BlackTalon.jpg

Glolt20-91
12-19-2007, 23:27
Went out tonight and did a muzzle flash pic on the above 175gr Silvertip, 10.1grs 800X from a 6" barrel. I was surprised by the low flash compared to a 7.4gr Power Pistol 230gr GS in .45acp. :)

http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o144/aztrekker/At%20the%20range/10mm175grSilvertip10gr800X6.jpg

Hard to see at this resolution, but several flakes were streakers.

f2.8, ISO 400, 4sec timer.

Bob :cowboy:

sab
12-31-2007, 16:38
I have a question for the seasoned 10mm folks here. I just started working up a load for woods hunting/protection in my G20 with stock barrel. I started with the following load, which I found in this thread:

Starline Brass (once-fired, not new)
CCI 350 Primer
1.26" OAL
9.0gr IMR 800-X
Beartooth 200gr WFNGC

I worked up in .2gr increments from there. I started to see a hint of the infamous glock smile at 9.4gr. At that point, I was seeing about 1240fps, and I had fired about a dozen rounds through an initially clean barrel.

Here's my question - Does 9.4gr seem like a reasonable point at which I would start seeing the smile? I was expecting to get at least a couple tenths higher before seeing signs of pressure.

The barrel did show visible leading, but I never shoot lead bullets, so it's hard for me to judge if leading was an issue. Would leading from a dozen shots cause pressure problems? Should I try virgin brass to rule out the brass? It is range brass, not fired by me previously, although I did inspect it prior to loading.

All I'm trying to do is come up with the hottest load I can use in the stock barrel. If 9.4gr seems reasonable, so be it. If I can eek out a little more energy, all the better. Going to an aftermarket barrel is not something I want to do because I want a super-reliable firearm that will always go bang.

Thanks in advance for your feedback!

SAB

rmgunsmith
02-25-2008, 14:45
Sunny afternoon 65F 5000ft. Sounds like a good time to bring out my summer CCW. I ran some bullets over the chrono today, here is how it shook out. This is from my stock G29

All handloads are 1.26"OAL CCI LP MAG primers avg. 5 shots use caution PLEASE!

180XTP 10.8 800X - 1263fps
135 Nosler JHP 13.5 800X - 1543fps
135 Nosler JHP 14.5 800X - 1596fps
220 West Coast FP 9.0 800X - 1093fps

PLEASE drop all of my loads by 2.0gr and work up in .5gr increments until pressure signs raise their ugly head, then back off by .5gr! Hope this helps.
-Mike
Mike,

9.6 gr of 800x behind a 180 gr XTP are plenty hot. The Hornady manual calls for 8.5 grains max. You say you used 10.8 ?

texas 48
04-28-2008, 15:14
Has anyone developed 165gr JHP loads for 800x in the G29 the only one I have seen is 11.0gr in a G20. Any help Out there? Thanks

SDGlock23
09-02-2008, 12:47
155gr Rem JHP, new Starline brass, CCI LP primers (not mag)
12.3grs 800X @ 1.260"
Glock 20 w/22 lb recoil spring and SS guide rod

AVG= 1,548 fps / 825 ft-lbs energy.
Low 1528 fps, High 1571 fps.

I feel with a mag primer, my 5" kimber should be getting close to the 1600 fps mark.

_The_Shadow
09-02-2008, 17:10
SDGlock23, I think you meant 1.26"...1.125" is like 40S&W C.O.A.L.

You mentioned that this was from the GLOCK 20 WAS THAT WITH STOCK LENGTH BARREL? (SORRY ABOUT THE CAPS)

SDGlock23
09-02-2008, 20:30
Shadow, thanks for catching my typo, I changed it.

But yeah, it was from my Glock 20 with the stock barrel in it. I tad bit of Glock-belly, but nothing major.

_The_Shadow
09-02-2008, 20:55
You're welcome! I want to add IMR800X and AA#9 to my powder stock pile fairly soon.

I have mostly used Blue Dot over the years and more recently some Power Pistol loads to gain some velocities from the short Glock 29 barrel. Blue Dot has worked well from my S&W 1006 and other 10xx series pistols.

Most recently I purchased a Bar-Sto Match grade 9X25 Dillon conversion barrel for my S&W1006, got it fitted to the pistol myself but set the barrel off to have the chanber finished reamed to proper depth. My first outing with it was great, no failures to feed or eject with Double Tap 90/115/125 grain Gold Dots. I am gathering info to start loading for it, can't weight!

This Hurricane Gustuv has set me back some as I started cleanup today and shuffling generators around to various family members homes to save the refrigerators and freezers plus helping a few close neighbors. The good lord has spared my home once again, thank you...AMEN! I've been running on my generator for 37 hours already as we type here. Well I must get some rest sun will shine in the morning and famile is coming back, lots to do.

L8R

SDGlock23
09-03-2008, 19:29
Shadow, you can't go wrong with 800x, that's for sure. Oh, and good luck with Gustav!

SDGlock23
09-03-2008, 19:33
This isn't 10mm, it's the 10's little brother, the .40. But it is 800x using 135gr Noslers. Once fired Speer brass, 1.125", Win SP Mag primers and 11.5grs 800x.

6" barrel Glock 35
3 shot Avg = 1,705 fps for an average of 871 ft-lbs of energy.

Thought I'd share since that's quite impressive, to me at least.

SDGlock23
03-18-2009, 13:36
Ran some 800x yesterday through the good ole trusty Glock 20. It was about 65 degrees, and I'm somewhere around 900-1000ft above sea level.

200gr XTP
9grs 800x, 1.270"
CCI 350 (LPM)
1x mixed brass

1182
1206
1165
1174

1,182 fps avg / 620 ft-lbs

The reason for being 1.270" is that using my old caliper, it said they were 1.260, but my new caliper said they were 1.270". They functioned fine nonetheless. Brass looked fine, a little dirty, but otherwise okay.

polarctica
03-25-2009, 13:00
I've got 8 pounds of 700-x kicking around. Anybody ever use this for 10MM? I haven't been able to find any loads for it.

MakeMineA10mm
03-25-2009, 15:14
I've got 8 pounds of 700-x kicking around. Anybody ever use this for 10MM? I haven't been able to find any loads for it.

I've used 700X quite a bit in 45ACP target loads, but not in the 10mm at all. I know that it is too fast to develop the magnum-level loads that most of our posts about 800X talk about here, but there's no reason 700X would not be a decent target powder for the 10mm. I've switched to Green Dot for my fast shotgun powder, so I can't test any loads to get you started. I'd bet around 5.0grs with a mid-weight bullet would be a safe starting point. Like I said, don't expect it to reach magnum velocities.

BrenTenVltor
04-02-2009, 18:41
Mr. Mcnett,

I am using your 180gr data with 175gr Silvertips to get at or just over 1300fps out of a 5" bbl using 800-X. Based on your writings I should start at 9.5g and proceed from there. I am using Doubletap brass (4 gr heavier over Win brand) and StarCrimp to hold a cannelure bullet. Should I use a CCI 350 cap or back down to a standard CCI LPP?

Thanks in advance...

_The_Shadow
04-02-2009, 19:05
BrenTenVltor (http://glocktalk.com/forums/member.php?u=104312) We haven't seen Mr. McNett here in quite sometime(busy man these days) but you don't have too use the magnum primer with the IMR800X powder, although some people do.

My data for the 180 gr bullet with IMR 800X is 8.7 @ 1210 fps at 30,000 CUP, please do NOT confuse the CUP vs. PSI data.

You should start at lower load weights and work up the load in 0.02 grain incraments because not all bullets, barrels or pistols are alike. And the cases too as you have mentioned. The star crimp you mentioned maybe too much, most just use a taper crimp to secure the bullet to prevent setback issues.

Best regards good luck and be safe!

Mitch_Rapp.45
04-03-2009, 18:19
I just ordered 2k Nosler 135 gr JHP and a few pounds of 800X. Also have a new 20SF, what is a good starting load and OAL for my mountain of mixed lot of range brass? I have a lot of experince. Also looking for primer choice, I have 1k Federal LP, but it looks like people are running magnum. I don't want to go crazy, seeing as I am using range brass, but would like to end up somewhere around 1550 or so and get a few loads at that level before turning it into target brass. Is this possible? Thanks in advance.
Lee

_The_Shadow
04-03-2009, 19:28
This is what Mike McNett posted in the second post of this forum:

Sunny afternoon 65F 5000ft. Sounds like a good time to bring out my summer CCW. I ran some bullets over the chrono today, here is how it shook out. This is from my stock G29

All handloads are 1.26"OAL CCI LP MAG primers avg. 5 shots use caution PLEASE!

135 Nosler JHP 13.5 800X - 1543fps
135 Nosler JHP 14.5 800X - 1596fps

PLEASE drop all of my loads by 2.0gr and work up in .5gr increments until pressure signs raise their ugly head, then back off by .5gr! Hope this helps.
-Mike


I would strongly suggest you follow his warnings while working up your loads! Your powder is of a different lot #, your primers will be of different lot#, etc.

Take your time and work slowly otherwise that "CRICKET WILL GET AWFUL NOISY"!

BrenTenVltor
04-04-2009, 15:18
Thank you Shadow. My 10mm IMR manual has a load for 9.7 of 800-x for 1330fps. This is just what I am looking for, a 1300fps load out of a 5 inch barrel for the new Fortis (Bren Ten). The Silvertip is my favorite bullet and this should work great.

Mitch_Rapp.45
04-05-2009, 09:10
I everyone pretty much running magnum primers with 800X and 135 NOS? What are the numbers for range brass? Honestly, big numbers are not worth the cost of new bras (to me) but I would like to see what I can do.
Lee

The10mmKid
04-06-2009, 08:51
I'm using Winchester LP primers. They are labeled Standard and Magnum.
I was using some of McNetts 135gr recipes, but was experiencing many Glock smileys. I only had a couple hundred of the light weight bullets, so I started looking at the more common 155, 165 & 180gr. Over the year, I have found my G20 (and me) favor a heavier bullet.

I now load 180 and 200 grainers exclusively.

I'm on +5 reloads with 10.0gr of 800-X, 180gr plated TC bullet (which measures .400) and an OAL of 1.260-1.265. The bullets are from a defunct mfr. named USAC.

Be forewarned . . . . you will hate working with 800-X. It does indeed throw like 6" cocktail plates. I weigh every round . . . . . period!

P.S. Favorite for the 200gr is 8gr of LongShot

'da 10mmKid

RyeDaddy
04-11-2009, 21:19
Got out to fire a workup the other day with the Hornady 155 grain XTP and IMR 800-X, everyone's darling.

75 degrees here in Fort Worth.

Specifics:
G20, stock barrel with a Wolff 22 lb. recoil spring. (My LWD barrel is out having a black finish applied)
Bullets seated at 1.258" OAL
New Starline brass
Winchester LP primers
Lee factory crimp turned one full turn after contact with case mouth, so pretty heavy crimp

Rounded average velocities in FPS:

8.4 grains - 1120

8.6 grains - 1140

8.8 grains - 1170

9.0 grains - 1180

9.2 grains - 1220

9.4 grains - 1245

9.6 grains - 1260

9.8 grains - 1300

10.0 grains - 1345

10.2 grains - 1410

Extreme spreads were over 100 FPS starting at around 9.6 or so grains. Until then they were well within normal at around 20 FPS or so. Suggests to me that the common belief about using magnum primers in heavy loads is warranted. Thought maybe using a heavy crimp would help some. Most here seem to believe that 800-X warrants a mag primer all the time, and some say at least when above 9.0 grains. I have CCI 350's on hand and will continue working with this until I have it right where I want it.

No pressure signs evident with these tested loads, other than the expected case belly from the stock barrel. Switching to a magnum primer may change that, we'll see.

Mitch_Rapp.45
05-02-2009, 14:42
Had my first outing today with my new 20 barrel. My barrel is a KKM comp and until something else is in stock is the factory guide rod and spring. My load was 135gr NOS JHP, CCI 350, Starline brass, and 11.5gr 800X OAL 1.275", crimped to .422" the load was accurate and bullets stable, the brass looks great - maybe .002" swell at the base. The pressure signs on the primers are extreme; completely flat, well defined rectangle where the primer flowed into the striker slot, and a deep drag on the primer strike that almost ripped through the primer. Brass ejects stright up about 30' or so and rains back down on me. Am I getting a detonation type ignition from too little powder? The load manual I have has a load for 1.260" with 14.5 grs at about 1,670fps. I should be way lower than that. Trying to come up with ideas before I try it again. Based on seating depth I would say I am already compressing the load .008" with a charge of 11.5gr. Anyone want to weigh in on this one?

Every round was the same way, ever charge was weighed on a dillon electronic scale that was on AC power and calibrated. I am a very experienced reloader, just not with hot 10mm. Thanks in advance,
Lee

_The_Shadow
05-02-2009, 15:42
Mitch_Rapp.45, I would suggest the stronger recoil spring. The tuning of the sldie velocity could help in your situation, and provide slightly more lock time.

You mention the KKM barrel with a comp, this may have some affect.

Good luck!

Mitch_Rapp.45
05-03-2009, 17:17
Went back to the range today and tried the following test loads:

NOS 135gr JHP, 1.275" OAL, 11.5gr 800X, WLP - Average 1,495fps.

NOS 135gr JHP, 1.260" OAL, 11.5gr 800X, CCI 350 - Chrono failure.

NOS 135gr JHP, 1.260" OAL, 12.0gr 800X, CCI 350 - Average 1,684fps.

All primers were equally flat with a consistent backflow into the primer striker slot. This series of loads, although it does not look like it, gave me a lot of data. Two particular things of note, 1) at 12.0gr, I have exceeded the 1,670fps in the manual with the same OAL listed for 14.5gr. 2) magnum primers do a much better job with 800X than I would have guessed - Seating .015" deeper, adding .5gr and switching from standard to magnum primers increased velocity ~190fps with no new signs of pressure.

I also walked away with a new question - Why not large rifle primers? If the idea behind large pistol magnum primers is to get maximum ignition, why not have the added benefit of a stronger primer cup? Right now, the only thing showing any sign of pressure is the primer.
Lee

crashcarruthers
05-03-2009, 19:41
I would do what Shadow suggested " tune your recoil spring". Besides the primer flatting, it would reduce the wear and tear on the gun. Just a thought.

SDGlock23
05-05-2009, 19:23
I also walked away with a new question - Why not large rifle primers? If the idea behind large pistol magnum primers is to get maximum ignition, why not have the added benefit of a stronger primer cup?

Large rifle primers are longer (taller) than large pistol primers, so they would stick out and thus wouldn't work. Small rifle primers are the same size as small pistol primers, but not so with large rifle and large pistol.

Mitch_Rapp.45
05-05-2009, 20:34
Large rifle primers are longer (taller) than large pistol primers, so they would stick out and thus wouldn't work. Small rifle primers are the same size as small pistol primers, but not so with large rifle and large pistol.

I noticed they are taller, but the Fed GM Match rifle primers I have seem to fit. I am a far way from wanting to try them, it is an interesting idea. I will say yesterday, I ripped a piece of Federal brass in half the hard way. I will be waiting till my Starline brass shows up to load anymore hot rounds.
Lee

SDGlock23
05-06-2009, 08:57
Starline is good brass. I have some Top Brass too, good stuff.

Glolt20-91
06-05-2009, 19:31
Got out to fire a workup the other day with the Hornady 155 grain XTP and IMR 800-X, everyone's darling.

75 degrees here in Fort Worth.

Specifics:
G20, stock barrel with a Wolff 22 lb. recoil spring. (My LWD barrel is out having a black finish applied)
Bullets seated at 1.258" OAL
New Starline brass
Winchester LP primers
Lee factory crimp turned one full turn after contact with case mouth, so pretty heavy crimp

Rounded average velocities in FPS:

8.4 grains - 1120

8.6 grains - 1140

8.8 grains - 1170

9.0 grains - 1180

9.2 grains - 1220

9.4 grains - 1245

9.6 grains - 1260

9.8 grains - 1300

10.0 grains - 1345

10.2 grains - 1410

Extreme spreads were over 100 FPS starting at around 9.6 or so grains. Until then they were well within normal at around 20 FPS or so. Suggests to me that the common belief about using magnum primers in heavy loads is warranted. Thought maybe using a heavy crimp would help some. Most here seem to believe that 800-X warrants a mag primer all the time, and some say at least when above 9.0 grains. I have CCI 350's on hand and will continue working with this until I have it right where I want it.

No pressure signs evident with these tested loads, other than the expected case belly from the stock barrel. Switching to a magnum primer may change that, we'll see.

What's the set-up screen distance you're shooting from?

Bob :cowboy:

RyeDaddy
06-05-2009, 22:53
What's the set-up screen distance you're shooting from?

Bob :cowboy:

About 15', any less than that and it reads crazy numbers from the muzzle blast.

MakeMineA10mm
06-06-2009, 14:24
Large rifle primers are longer (taller) than large pistol primers, so they would stick out and thus wouldn't work. Small rifle primers are the same size as small pistol primers, but not so with large rifle and large pistol.

SDGlock23 is quite correct.

With the proper tooling, one can deepen the primer pocket on a case to take a LR primer, however.

Not saying I've tried this (you know I have :supergrin: ), but just as a warning, this does significantly weaken the web of the case by thinning the amount of brass in between the powder chamber and the primer pocket. I found that after repeated reloadings OR just one or two heavy loadings, there was a significant chance the thinned brass of the web in front of the primer pocket lets go, leaving you with an incredibly large flash hole. I sectioned one of the cases and discovered the significantly thinned area, and have since completely discontinued the practice. Not much is gained over a LP-Magnum primer anyway, unless you use LR-Magnum primers, but that's a whole 'nuther story... :embarassed:

tigman5356
07-02-2009, 22:28
i used once fired brass, 9.0 g of 800x 1.26 oal, cci lp primers, and hornaday action pistol 180 grain bullets. no case bulge out of a new bone stock glock 29 or a used glock 20. the case walls are nice a straight. this is a good no worry load. but remember load a few with less powder first!

tigman5356
07-02-2009, 22:31
i'm gonna work my way up. i just got my new 22lb spring for my glock 20!
i have a eaa witness match with a 22 lb spring i worked up to 10g of 800x no bulged cases but it really throws the brass

Mitch_Rapp.45
12-28-2009, 23:32
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0uzvZ0Wc97o

If you are still just fishing around and don't own a 10mm yet, go get one.. (then mail me all your brass)

Lee

bear59801
06-17-2010, 20:31
I ran across this thread while browsing the site, and joined just so I could post MY 800x experience. Let me begin by saying this:
BEWARE HEAVY 800X LOADS IN THE 10MM!

Some years back, I picked up a free IMR Handloader's Guide For Smokeless Powders pamphlet at a local gunshop. As a new Model 20 owner, I was just beginning the process of working up loads for my new gun, and there, in the pamphlet, I see a load for 135 grain Nosler bullets and 14.5 grains 800X that gave velocities WAY higher than any other load I had seen for 135 grain bullets - namely, 1670 fps. Wow! Just Wow! The pamphlet has a date on the back of 1/97; the front cover says "Formerly Supplied By Du Pont". My previous version of that pamphlet was undated, had the DuPont name, and had no loads for either the 10mm, or for 800X.

So, of course I had to try it. I had a large quantity of once-fired Winchester brass, and was using Winchester large pistol primers at the time. I went out and bought a can of 800X and eventually I found a box of Nosler 135 grain bullets. Meanwhile I tried the load for 155 grain bullets. 11.5 grains under a 155 Hornady XTP gave 1395 fps, a good 80 fps slower that what the book said I might expect from the max load of 11.6, although in a 5" test barrel. There were no dramatic signs of excess pressure; case head measurements were in line with factory Winchester Silvertips 180 grain ammo that I was using as a comparison.

I should have guessed that it was not reasonable to expect to be able to use 3 more grains of powder with a 20 grain drop in bullet weight.

I soon found that 14.5 grains would not fit into the case when dropped from a powder measure. I got it to hold 14.0 by dropping the charges into a .45 ACP case on my other press and then pouring them slowly into the 10mm case as I tapped on it. Still, it would be a compressed load. I loaded up 10 of those and took them to the range. I know, stupid. Should have started a lot lower.

The first round gave no reading on the chrono. Recoil was stiff. The case was flung about 40 feet, and I couldn't find it easily. The second shot was 1780 fps, and I didn't see where that case landed either. The third shot blew up the gun.

The frame was torn from the top down for about an inch, the magazine was blown apart, the extractor disappeared. The trigger/ejector parts were bent way out of shape. The whole case head was just gone, and the rest of the case was still in the barrel. Fortunately I can still count to ten so I have eyes and all my fingers.

I wrote to IMR about this and never got a reply. I did notice that the load for 135 grain bullets with 800X was removed from the next edition of that pamphlet.

I sent the gun and the remnants of the magazine to Glock. They replaced the frame and the entire trigger group, and the magazine, for about $100, plus shipping. They warrantied the slide, as they said it had abnormal wear on the breech face, and didn't bother to charge for the extractor. The barrel was fine, I am still using it.

After the gun blew, I got down on hands and knees and searched, and eventually found the first two brass. They were both badly bulged (pregnant), with completely flat and leaking primers and some sign of brass being squeezed into the ejector hole. I'm guessing pressure was in excess of 60K. I pulled the bullets from the rest of those rounds and weighed the powder charges; they ran from 13.5 to 15.0 grains

When I got the gun back, I started working up a load starting at 11.5 grains, which had been safe with a 155 grain bullet, and I weighed all the charges I eventually settled on 12.5 as a very maximum load. That gave a .003 bulge in the case and 1521 fps. Once I had satisfied myself that the published velocities were not realistic, I abandoned further load development with the 135. I finished up that box of bullets and have bought no more. I used up the 800X with the 155 Hornady bullets.

My conclusion is that 800X does not meter uniformly enough to produce reliable charges unless weighed, and that at maximum loads and already high pressures, it is not forgiving of overcharges. I also believe that load data was a mistake - perhaps a typo.

Apparently it is too late to close the barn door; now that load has run away, and is being spread as gospel, even though it is no longer published. I believe it is dangerous, at least in the Glock, and should be approached with extreme caution, starting at least 3 grains low. Weigh your charges, work up in very small increments, not .5 grains. Do not ignore pressure signs like flattened primers and bulged cases, as the next thing is a blown case head.

I do not own the current Nosler or Hodgdon complete manual. A load for 800X and 135 grain bullets is not in the online manual. However the max load now given for 800x and 155 grain bullets is 9.8gr. How reasonable does 14.5 sound, considering that? 800X is not magic; the laws of physics still apply.

Griz

_The_Shadow
06-17-2010, 21:35
Griz, Welcome to GlockTalk! Also thank you for sharing your actual experience with the blown pistol using the 800X loads. I have read where people have used the loads as posted, although I couldn't bring myself to use it myself. I have cautioned poeple to strickly hand weigh this particular powder especially while working on the ragged edge of MAXIMUM! We are not able to do pressure testing with our firearms and are only guessing while so call reading primers and brass expansion.

And yes the laws of physics still apply with all powders and componets.

Be sure to check out the 10mmTalk Forum located at this link: http://www.ar15armory.com/forums/10mm-Talk-Forums-f187.html

Best regards!

Jumper
07-27-2010, 09:55
From my G29 with stock length KKM bbl. CED Millenium chrono with IR sky screens. Gun was recently reconditioned in Smyrna, GA.
WIN cases fired 1x; 10.5gr IMR 800-X; CCI 350 primers; Hornady 180gr XTP; 1.260 OAL. All charges weighed out on an RCBS chargemaster.
Weather: 81 degrees F; 48% humidity; pressure 30.09". Altitude 600ft ASL

9 shots avg vel 1261; Avg fpe 635; SD 22;

Primers were still rounded at the edges, the primers had the rectangular imprint of the firing pin channel and the strike of the firing pin was wiped at the bottom. So it looks like the slide is unlocking pretty fast but nothing worse than some 357SIG primers I've seen. There were also marks from the ejector on the case heads.

I won't go any higher with the charge weight but I think these are safe in my gun.

Kegs
07-29-2010, 19:50
I just tried 9.0,9.2,9.4,9.6, and 9,8gr. 800x over (5) ea. of 155gr. XTPs. using #350 CCI primers

G29 w/4.5" KKM barrel, 21# wolff springs.

I still do not have a chronometer (will work on that as soon as possible).

I was just comparing these loads to 12.1, 12.3, 12.5, 12.7, and 12.9 of Blue dot over 155gr.

Blue dot really has a "cannon" sound, where the 800x has a traditional loud "crack" non-magnum pistol sound.

For me, the 800x worked pretty well 9.4g+, not so well less than that. Groups were reasonably tight and the brass dropped in about the same place. I would not hesitate to load quite a bit hotter than "max" on this cartridge, working up, of course.

One of my thoughts about this powder is that it meters so crappy because the flakes are so large and so dense, I think you need a digital scale that will go down at least to the hundredths of a grain to get rounds to have consistent velocity.

I will confirm this later, but it was something I noticed regarding this powder - that, and the brass gets very hot after having shot with this (much hotter than Bluedot) powder.

Taterhead
07-30-2010, 17:56
However the max load now given for 800x and 155 grain bullets is 9.8gr. How reasonable does 14.5 sound, considering that? 800X is not magic; the laws of physics still apply.

Griz

Thank you very much for sharing that story. I have a bunch loaded at 14.3 gr in the safe that I have all but decided to pull. I have shot plenty of them at 14.0 + range without any indications of excess pressure, but there seems to be no point to shooting that projectile @ 1700 fps - other than it is fun. I think that you are correct to suspect 14.5 gr to be too high of a mark. I was suscpicious at first - hence the slow and careful hand-weighed workups. As I mentioned in another recent post, these loads are beginning to give me the creeps. Not because of any excess pressure indications, but because that charge level does not seem to "track" with other loads. I agree with your sentiment that it sorta defies logic.

800-X has never agreed with WLPs or 350s for me. Pressure symptoms rear their heads much earlier with those primers than with 300s. I have a couple pounds of 800-X left and a bunch of NOS 135 JHPs. I have some test lots at 11 to 12 gr that I may use for IDPA work if they provide satisfactory results. That way I can get rid of the 800-X that I have with a bunch of painstaking hand-weighed charges. I see no advantage to that powder. It really should be considered a non-metering powder; and BD, A9, and A7 give better results.

Hodgdon should really do the responsible thing and re-test that load. They do not stand behind the original data, but they haven't indicated that anything is known to be wrong with it.

JTknives
08-17-2010, 04:36
I will admit im a powder whore which stems from being addicted to velocity ;). the other day at a friends house i ran some of my hot loads over my crono. we where at around 6000ft elevation and it was around 85deg i think. i was shooting my own designed 210gr WFN cast boolit out of my glock 20 with a lone wolf barrel. i started at 8.6gr of IMR 800x and CCI 350 primers. i will say this that for the heavy bullets CCi 350 primers are the way to go but once you get down to the 135gr bullets CCI 300 primers are where its at as the mag primers seam to cause a pressure spikes/ flattend primers. any way i loaded these long at 1.27-1.275. my cast boolits are the same length as the bear tooth cast. but seating them longer gave me a touch more case capacity. so any way i shot 5 over the crono and my velocity was between 1400fps to 1412fps using 10.4gr of imr 800-x. talk about a stomper. the primers looked a little flatend but still had rounded edges. the case head expansion was at or less then DT 155gr barnes loads. and the brass almost drops freely all the way into the chamber. just a lite tap to seat it all the way and very easy to remove (same as DT tested ammo). all signs point to being ok except im over book max so don't try at home with out working up slowly and using your brain. i have now loaded some 200gr XTP bullets using the same powder from 9.75gr to 12.00gr. but there is one difference and that is that i loaded them supper long. and when i say supper long i mean supper long. they are loaded to an OAL of 1.39, this is not a type-o, thy are 1.39". i did some carfule measuring of chamber and throat deapth and case length and seat my bullets .01 short of the throat. which is around what match bench rest shooters do. i talked to my friend who shoots a lot of long range bench rest and said .01 off the throat is a good place to be. these of course will not fit in the mag. well one will with one in the chamber. i will be testing these rounds and if thy work how i plan thy will then i will be modifying my mag so i can fit 3-5 round in the mag. this is going to be only a hunting round so i dont need a full mag full. i will keep you updated

Kegs
08-29-2010, 10:04
I will admit im a powder whore which stems from being addicted to velocity ;). the other day at a friends house i ran some of my hot loads over my crono. we where at around 6000ft elevation and it was around 85deg i think. i was shooting my own designed 210gr WFN cast boolit out of my glock 20 with a lone wolf barrel. i started at 8.6gr of IMR 800x and CCI 350 primers. i will say this that for the heavy bullets CCi 350 primers are the way to go but once you get down to the 135gr bullets CCI 300 primers are where its at as the mag primers seam to cause a pressure spikes/ flattend primers. any way i loaded these long at 1.27-1.275. my cast boolits are the same length as the bear tooth cast. but seating them longer gave me a touch more case capacity. so any way i shot 5 over the crono and my velocity was between 1400fps to 1412fps using 10.4gr of imr 800-x. talk about a stomper. the primers looked a little flatend but still had rounded edges. the case head expansion was at or less then DT 155gr barnes loads. and the brass almost drops freely all the way into the chamber. just a lite tap to seat it all the way and very easy to remove (same as DT tested ammo). all signs point to being ok except im over book max so don't try at home with out working up slowly and using your brain. i have now loaded some 200gr XTP bullets using the same powder from 9.75gr to 12.00gr. but there is one difference and that is that i loaded them supper long. and when i say supper long i mean supper long. they are loaded to an OAL of 1.39, this is not a type-o, thy are 1.39". i did some carfule measuring of chamber and throat deapth and case length and seat my bullets .01 short of the throat. which is around what match bench rest shooters do. i talked to my friend who shoots a lot of long range bench rest and said .01 off the throat is a good place to be. these of course will not fit in the mag. well one will with one in the chamber. i will be testing these rounds and if thy work how i plan thy will then i will be modifying my mag so i can fit 3-5 round in the mag. this is going to be only a hunting round so i dont need a full mag full. i will keep you updated

Sounds like fun - be careful though!

JTknives
08-30-2010, 00:24
I tested the rounds. i milled out the frount of a mag to handle these long rounds. i worked my way up to 11.00 gr of 800x. i must say i dont think its a safe load. my glock fired them fine but i think by giving it more case capacity the powder is to fast for it. but at 11gr i got 1500 fps. like i said NOT SAFE. i think a slower powder needs to be used with the larger case capacity. I will keep you up dated with my findings. also the XTPs held togather fine at that speed and penatrated about 20" of water.

_The_Shadow
08-30-2010, 09:28
JTKnives wrote: but there is one difference and that is that i loaded them supper long. and when i say supper long i mean supper long. they are loaded to an OAL of 1.39, this is not a type-o, thy are 1.39".

JT, you are free to do as you wish... but IMHO...this changes the cartridge more to leaning toward a 10mm Magnum and are out of the normal 10mm spec of 1.25" or 1.26" COAL, and pressures are surely over the specs as well when comparing to the data of the 10mm Magnum.:sorry:

For your sake, I hope your gun stays together, because I'd hate to read a story that you were struck in the head by the slide. This would give yet another "Black Eye" to you and the handloading community.:scared:

This is why I tell people to carefully read what people post, info can me left out, mis-stated, modified items/guns and typo's! Then there are some "LUCKY" people that get away with stuff once in a while...then the "LAW OF ADVERAGES" catch up in one swift move!:wow:

JTknives
09-05-2010, 21:32
JTKnives wrote:

JT, you are free to do as you wish... but IMHO...this changes the cartridge more to leaning toward a 10mm Magnum and are out of the normal 10mm spec of 1.25" or 1.26" COAL, and pressures are surely over the specs as well when comparing to the data of the 10mm Magnum.:sorry:

For your sake, I hope your gun stays together, because I'd hate to read a story that you were struck in the head by the slide. This would give yet another "Black Eye" to you and the handloading community.:scared:

This is why I tell people to carefully read what people post, info can me left out, mis-stated, modified items/guns and typo's! Then there are some "LUCKY" people that get away with stuff once in a while...then the "LAW OF ADVERAGES" catch up in one swift move!:wow:

i under stand what your saying and understand. I have begun to go a different direction and will no longer be using the 800x in my long loaded rounds. I'm thinking that i will need a slower powder if i continue to play with the long loads.

Burien
11-30-2010, 23:06
Charges of 800x varied in my Lee progressive auto disk powder from 11.5-12.0 in the 1.36 cc disk, so verify if you use the lee auto thrower

This load gave me an extremely small "smile" on my brass, just about a line drawn with fine tip pen, so this would be the MAX I would load my stock G-29 ranged from 1480-1504 fps, I'm happy with the Nosler 135gn HP and Winchester LP primers, not using mag primes. 1.250" and the brass flew about 20'

KKM barrel and wolf 21# spring on the way!

Glockstok
12-07-2010, 05:46
I have a G20 and have settled on several loads using 800X. I am currently using a Wolff steel recoil rod with a 17lb spring. I have Wolff springs in 20 and 22 lb but have not worked much with them. I also have a 6"KKM barrel. Now for the question. What spring and barrel woulfd you more experiences shooters be using? I have worked with both barrels and all the springs and sometimes I get faailure to feed if I have the heavier springs on the KKM barrel installed. I'm just looking for opinions before I burn up a bunch of ammo. Below are the loads that I have settled on. They all consist of 800X and CCI 350 primers. Thanks for your input.

155g XTP with 11.0g 800X
180g XTP with 10.0g 800X
180g GD with 10.0g 800X
200g XTP with 9.3g 800X

Burien
12-13-2010, 16:13
I have the 21 lb, not enough, go with the highest power one Wolff Sells, I'm ordering one of the 23 lb spings

Esh
01-15-2011, 15:34
Took some loads to the range today. Here's what I came up with. As always, I'm not a loadologist, so YMMV.

Sunny, 55 degrees, sea level
Glock 20 with LWD longslide and 6" LWD barrel. Stock recoil spring, 1.27" COAL with new starline brass

180gr XTP with 10.5 gr 800x and CCI 300

1451
1448
1440
1445
1447

155gr XTP with 12.0 gr of 800x and CCI 300

1628
1664
1626
1636
1641

200gr XTP with 9.2 gr of 800x and CCI 300

1322
1337
1346
1336
1328

Buffalo Bore 220gr loads (very smokey)

1217
1225
1230

nickE10mm
01-15-2011, 16:06
Nice loads there, Esh!

Are you seeing any pressure signs on the 200gr load? That seems like a fantastic deer load!

jon1977
01-15-2011, 17:27
I have been working uo a maximum load load for the 10mm. I am using a stock G20, 180 grain bullets, and 800x.
I startyed at 8.5 grains, the listed max, and worked up in .5 grain increments. I am up to 11.0 grainswith 800x and 180 grain tmj with no pressure signs. I only fired three rounds as I know I am way over max. I was just trying to see at what level I would see signs of excess pressure and I have not yet. I am not going to go any higher, just wanted to know what you guys think.

Thanks, Jon

Esh
01-15-2011, 17:39
Nice loads there, Esh!

Are you seeing any pressure signs on the 200gr load? That seems like a fantastic deer load!


Thanks, that's the purpose on the 180 or 200. Haven't decided which one yet. Here's a picture of the brass. The first is the 200 grain load. The second is the 180 grain load. I don't see anything that makes me worry, but I don't want to go any higher. It's plenty fast at those speeds.

nickE10mm
01-15-2011, 18:42
Thanks, that's the purpose on the 180 or 200. Haven't decided which one yet. Here's a picture of the brass. The first is the 200 grain load. The second is the 180 grain load. I don't see anything that makes me worry, but I don't want to go any higher. It's plenty fast at those speeds.

I don't SEE anything either, however, be aware that case head expansion is a more accurate indicator of pressure than primer condition. Measure a fresh FACTORY load before and after firing in THAT barrel... then, do the same with your reloads and compare to what's within spec for 10mm.

Otherwise, looks really good. 200gr XTP at anything 1300 and up is nothing short of a monster 10mm load if you ask me. 6" tubes make it easier to get to that velocity, too. AHHHH YES. BTW, the last two deer I took with my Razorback were both with Doubletap 200gr XTP's at quoted boxflap of 1250fps (I'm guessing a bit under 1200fps ACTUAL velocity). They worked very very well. I'd think 1300fps would be RIGHT where I wanted my velocity at for hunting.

I'd love to see some expansion pics of 200gr XTP impact at over 1300fps in wet phonebook. That would be good reading, right there. :)

JTknives
01-15-2011, 22:02
I'd love to see some expansion pics of 200gr XTP impact at over 1300fps in wet phonebook. That would be good reading, right there. :)

here is a pic of two 200gr XTPs that i shot into 2 liter pop bottles. I clocked them at over 1400fps. i cant remember the exact number but i'm thinking 1450-1460fps. i was wondering if thy would hold together for elk hunting and thy are at like 95% weight retention.

nickE10mm
01-15-2011, 22:05
here is a pic of two 200gr XTPs that i shot into 2 liter pop bottles. I clocked them at over 1400fps. i cant remember the exact number but i'm thinking 1450-1460fps. i was wondering if thy would hold together for elk hunting and thy are at like 95% weight retention.

Very nice, but how on earth did you get a 200gr XTP going 1400+ in a 10mm???

JTknives
01-15-2011, 22:34
Very nice, but how on earth did you get a 200gr XTP going 1400+ in a 10mm???

I did it with 10.4gr of IMR 800-X, "don't try at home".

Burien
01-23-2011, 22:27
Data from today, 65-70 temp, 2500' Glock 29 with KKM + wolff 23 lb spring, 800x and Tula LP Mag primers:

180 gr Privi HP 9.2 gr 1.260'' = 1250 fps
180 gr Privi HP 9.7 gr 1.250'' = 1300 fps

150 gr Nosler HP 11.0 gr 1.260 = 1480 fps



Update today 27JAN11, same temp, sea level same gun ect above:

170 gr Nosler HP 10.3 gr 1.260 = 1375 fps

200 gr XTP hp 8.5 gr 1.260 = 1160

200 gr XTP hp 9.0 gr 1.260 = 1200

200 gr XTP hp 9.3 gr 1.260 = 1220

nickE10mm
01-28-2011, 13:49
Really wish I had an answer as to why all published load listings for 800x stop at around 32k psi, where they go up to 36k or so with other powders. Its almost as if they are scared of printing the velocities... lol

It COULD be because the powder is so hard to meter and the pressure curve steepens when you get up around 9gr (200gr bullet) ... OR.... it could be because stock barrels ironically often don't have enough support for the original Norma spec loadings .....

....but otherwise, I see no rational reason why its done.

nickE10mm
01-28-2011, 14:36
Also, does anyone have firsthand experience loading up the nuclear loads from this thread in a stock Razorback barrel? I'd be interested to see how its barrel compared with aftermarket KKM / Storm Lake / Jarvis barrels.

I, personally, have never seen ANY smilies or ANY expansion firing any loads and that includes DT and BB loads.

Kegs
01-29-2011, 17:51
I, personally, have never seen ANY smilies or ANY expansion firing any loads and that includes DT and BB loads.

Go run a while through my threads. You'll see plenty. In fact, I just posted a couple today. :supergrin::wavey:

FTR: 9.3gr. 800x with 350s should be right about at 37,5kpsi based on earlier figures in this thread (pay close attention to what McNett lists, then look at books then extrapolate).

9.2gr. is where my hunting load is set at - I'm not sure the 200 xtp will hold up much above 1200 or so - when one hit my chrono doing about 1280 (est - since I could't read it), the chinsy plastic in the chrono tore the bullet in half! ~1/3 stayed with chrono and 2/3 went down range - Now that was an "edge" shot - it hit the edge of the top of the chono case - but that is a good indication of what the bullet will do when it hits bone.

I would really like to see some sort of bullet that is a bi-metal - hard cast lead + copper so both expansion and bone breaking could be done - not sure about the design though...

Burien
01-29-2011, 23:18
funny, i had one hit the metal rod a while back, I used a bbq shishkabob stick to take its place, no sign of the rod or bullet

Kegs
01-30-2011, 08:59
One of my rods has recently been replaced with a wooden dowel.

I hit the front left one earlier this winter and it went zinging away somewhere - will probably run into it during the reasonable season if/when I am here.

funny, i had one hit the metal rod a while back, I used a bbq shishkabob stick to take its place, no sign of the rod or bullet

Burien
01-30-2011, 20:28
Today, Rain :( Chrony is reading "ERROR 09" maybe the end of it but got this data before it got soaked, both loaded to 1.260" and Tula LP Mag primers

180 gr Privi HP 10.0 gr 800x out of g-29 w/KKM 1350 fps

200 gr XTP 9.5 gr 800x out of g-29 chrony died,

fired more 3 rounds, they pack a punch, only this load had some gas going past the primer, primer still flush but a small "black eye" around the primer, think I'll pull the last few down and stick to 9.3 :)


-2 days later , chrony dried up and working again! gotta love them!

nickE10mm
01-31-2011, 14:20
Go run a while through my threads. You'll see plenty. In fact, I just posted a couple today. :supergrin::wavey:
....

I was referring to never having seen smiley's using DoubleTap or BB loads THROUGH MY RAZORBACK. My stock G29 and G20 barrels would occasionally hog belly hot 10mm cases...

What I'm looking for is how a Razorback barrel would compare (case support-wise) to most run-of-the-mill KKM aftermarket barrels using DT, BB or VERY hot reloads.

:)

Burien
01-31-2011, 15:56
can you post a picture of your Razorback with a case in it? Barrel out of pistol?

nickE10mm
02-01-2011, 10:34
can you post a picture of your Razorback with a case in it? Barrel out of pistol?

I will try and do that soon... very busy lately, however, me posting a pic of my barrel won't really tell us how it compares to an aftermarket Glock barrel since I don't have one of those here to show side-by-sdie.

Still, I'll get to it. Its BLIZZARD time!

Kegs
02-19-2011, 12:12
I did it with 10.4gr of IMR 800-X, "don't try at home".

Are these your loaded long ones - and what primers did you use?

nickE10mm
02-19-2011, 12:49
can you post a picture of your Razorback with a case in it? Barrel out of pistol?

http://img137.imageshack.us/content_round.php?page=done&l=img137/6424/76218236.jpg

http://img220.imageshack.us/content_round.php?page=done&l=img220/6397/64762828.jpg

_The_Shadow
02-19-2011, 14:29
Here look at these pics...
Glock-29 Stock and StormLake conversion then S&W 1006 Factory and Bar-Sto conversions

Kegs
02-19-2011, 16:22
G29 KKM 4.45" bbl.

I just got done loading up 11.4grains of 800x using cci 350s (magnum primers) to push 135 grain noslers. My forecast was that they would have been going 1600 fps.

I ran a relay of 15 each (1) relay with a light crimp and the other with a medium-heavy crimp.

First of all, the velocity was all over the board on each relay. Secondly, I had a few failures to read with the chrono.

The relay with light crimp ran 1549 - primers flat, but okay.

The relay with medium-heavy crimp ran about 1620 on avg., and had 3 primers (out of 15) blow out. I also had about (3) fail to extract - to the point of having to extract them with a pocket knife - they were wedged in the barrel pretty bad!

I regret having loaded 50 extra of these today. Oh well...brass are going to be fried afterward.

I tried running these loads before with the 11.6 and 11.8 grains both light crimps. 11.6 was okay, but 11.8 was too much (primers blew).

I don't think cci 350s are good at all with these 135gr. loads.

I'm also going to go with a slightly lighter crimp on all loads.

I just think the magnum primers spike the pressure on these loads. Even though they were great with my 200xtp loadings, I think from now on I am going to go with cci 300s for almost everything with this powder and see how much I can work up with that.

hypnagogue
02-19-2011, 17:15
I've given up on CCI350s altogether. Never saw any improvement in velocities, but definitely saw pressure signs.

Taterhead
02-19-2011, 18:16
G29 KKM 4.45" bbl.

I just got done loading up 11.4grains of 800x using cci 350s (magnum primers) to push 135 grain noslers. My forecast was that they would have been going 1600 fps.

I ran a relay of 15 each (1) relay with a light crimp and the other with a medium-heavy crimp.

First of all, the velocity was all over the board on each relay. Secondly, I had a few failures to read with the chrono.

The relay with light crimp ran 1549 - primers flat, but okay.

The relay with medium-heavy crimp ran about 1620 on avg., and had 3 primers (out of 15) blow out. I also had about (3) fail to extract - to the point of having to extract them with a pocket knife - they were wedged in the barrel pretty bad!

I regret having loaded 50 extra of these today. Oh well...brass are going to be fried afterward.

I tried running these loads before with the 11.6 and 11.8 grains both light crimps. 11.6 was okay, but 11.8 was too much (primers blew).

I don't think cci 350s are good at all with these 135gr. loads.

I'm also going to go with a slightly lighter crimp on all loads.

I just think the magnum primers spike the pressure on these loads. Even though they were great with my 200xtp loadings, I think from now on I am going to go with cci 300s for almost everything with this powder and see how much I can work up with that.

This post has me scratching my head. I have loaded up to 14.5 grains of 800-X (standard primer) with benign pressure symptoms. All with a sloppy Glock barrel. Velocities are 1695 fps. Yet you are getting blown primers at 11.X grains. Do you have any photos of the primers?

I do not shoot loads anywhere near 14 grains any longer under the 135 grainers. Not because I've had any issues, but it just doesn't make sense that it is a safe load. I'm wondering if with the compressed charge levels if I was getting an incomplete burn and that is why I wasn't building sufficient pressure to cause concern. I did not find any evidence of unburnt powder though. Weird. This is why I am not too enthused about this power/projectile combo any longer. A lot of anecdotal information that keeps me confused. I wish that I had chronographed velocities of lesser charges during my workups. That would have provided helpful data. Who knows.

I have several test batches at lower charge weights. I'm going to reduce to the latest max charge for the 155 grain as a starting point. We'll see what happens.

I agree with trying standard primers. Mag primers have always presented pressure symtoms at lower velocities that standard primers. That is accross all bullet weights.

Thanks for posting your results.

Kegs
02-20-2011, 12:32
This post has me scratching my head. I have loaded up to 14.5 grains of 800-X (standard primer) with benign pressure symptoms. All with a sloppy Glock barrel. Velocities are 1695 fps. Yet you are getting blown primers at 11.X grains. Do you have any photos of the primers?

I don't have any photos of the primers, Tater - Those bad boys fly out pretty good once the slide opens - one hit me in the head a couple weeks ago. :supergrin:

I honestly think that the huge difference is the primers. I think the magnum primers seriously make a huge difference in this load - and it's not a good one.

I would like to load up some 300s in some cases and do a work up with the 135s. I still have a lot of 135s left unloaded.

Unfortunately, I have a lot of them loaded as well - I really hate to pull them, but I might.

With the mag primers velocities were all over the place too - from 1400 up to well over 1600. SD was triple digit! :shocked:

Kegs
02-25-2011, 07:14
Used Remington 2 1/2 primers and I got some serious velocities out of the 135 Nosler JHP...

(4.45" KKM bbl.):

COAL 1.260" +/- .005"

MEDIUM TAPER CRIMP (if you want description, ask.)

For starters:

12.7gr. 800x = 1598 average!
13.0gr. 800x = 1646 average!
13.3gr. 800x = 1696 average!

Maximum load is 14.5gr.

I did a 13.6 and 13.9 relay yesterday evening, but not enough light for chrono to read - so doing over today (hopefully).

Expect to hit 1810 fps average with the 14.5 load (this with a 4.5" bbl.) - but we'll see...primers were just starting to flatten out at the 13.9 level.

Changing over to cci 300s (NOT 350s!!! - see note above)today with new 13.3, - 14.5 loads (in 0.3gr. increments).

I am beginning to think that the right crimp makes an ENORMOUS difference in pressure and velocity with this load - my crimps are "medium" - light crimps won't make the speed, heavy crimps will cause overpressure.

Also noted that the first two relays of 11.5 and 11.8 had flipped results (11.5 averaged 1521 and 11.8 averaged 1501) because of a little shorter overall length as I loaded those first (first one was 1.24" COAL)

Fastmother
03-06-2011, 15:41
I have a 4.6" KKM in my G20 with a 20lb spring, and was getting 1650fps with 12gr 800x & Nosler 135s, WLPs. OAL is 1.26". The primers look pretty flat, and I was wondering if I should back off the charge, or just switch to CCI300 primers. I would like to shoot this load regularly, but don't want to push the pressure limits.

Taterhead
03-06-2011, 15:52
I think that would be worth trying. My best results by far with 800x has been with standard primers, specifically 300s.

Fastmother
03-06-2011, 20:49
Thanks Tater, I'm reading about guys pushing their guns over the edge, & all I want is sustainable maximum average pressure. Does 12gr behind a 135gr. Nosler in the KKM barrel fit this description, or should I dial it back if the CCI300s flatten like the WLPs?

g29guy
04-13-2011, 14:00
I received a bunch of 10mm 180 grain Truncated cone flat point hard cast bullets. Any ideas of a fast hunting load for deer/hogs with 800x. I don't want to push the envelope too far as I love my fingers and gun. Ill be using Blue Dot for my range fun, just wanted a fast hot load for the woods.

New Starline brass
300 cci primers
180g TCHC

Shooting a G29, 23 lb wolff spring/ss guide rod, KKM 4.75" barrel:cool:(this is the longest they will cut for 29 BTW)

Also I'm new to the cast bullet reloading. Am I ok using FMJ info minus 10% for hard cast bullets or is that a rumor I need to disregard?

nickE10mm
04-13-2011, 14:10
I received a bunch of 10mm 180 grain Truncated cone flat point hard cast bullets. Any ideas of a fast hunting load for deer/hogs with 800x. I don't want to push the envelope too far as I love my fingers and gun. Ill be using Blue Dot for my range fun, just wanted a fast hot load for the woods.

New Starline brass
300 cci primers
180g TCHC

Shooting a G29, 23 lb wolff spring/ss guide rod, KKM 4.75" barrel:cool:(this is the longest they will cut for 29 BTW)

Also I'm new to the cast bullet reloading. Am I ok using FMJ info minus 10% for hard cast bullets or is that a rumor I need to disregard?


First of all, are the bullets CAST LEAD flat points ... or are they true HARDCAST bullets? That will make the biggest difference in the answer. You want to use reduced loads if they are simply CAST LEAD, however, if you're using a true hardcast WFN bullet you can drive them as fast as you want.

In a G29 with your 4.75" KKM barrel you can carefully work up a 180gr HC bullet up to 1350+ fps with 800X.

With a 180gr CAST LEAD bullet, you wouldn't want to exceed maybe 1100fps or so.

g29guy
04-14-2011, 13:22
Mid-Atlantic bullets calls them match grade hardcast bullets. "We cast only using 2-6-92 hard casting alloy (BHN 17)".
So I assume I can run them pretty hot and fast. Not looking for nuclear but fast and accurate.

nickE10mm
04-14-2011, 13:41
Mid-Atlantic bullets calls them match grade hardcast bullets. "We cast only using 2-6-92 hard casting alloy (BHN 17)".
So I assume I can run them pretty hot and fast. Not looking for nuclear but fast and accurate.

Yes, you are correct. BHN 18 is nice and hard... should be good for a good, fast load.

nickE10mm
04-18-2011, 16:50
I've been slowly working up 200gr XTP loads in between my very limited range time available and have worked up 8.5, 8.7, and 9.0gr 800X in my new Fusion longslide. Haven't had a chance to run them over the chrono but I have no pressure signs. I'm going to stop here until I get a chance to run them over the chrono but I'm pretty excited. I'm expecting that this 9gr load will net me over 1300fps with my 6" tube. More on this and other work-ups soon...

:cool:

Kegs
04-19-2011, 04:53
I've been slowly working up 200gr XTP loads in between my very limited range time available and have worked up 8.5, 8.7, and 9.0gr 800X in my new Fusion longslide. Haven't had a chance to run them over the chrono but I have no pressure signs. I'm going to stop here until I get a chance to run them over the chrono but I'm pretty excited. I'm expecting that this 9gr load will net me over 1300fps with my 6" tube. More on this and other work-ups soon...

:cool:

I am so familiar with how 800x works that I'll bet I could pretty much guess the velocity on those rounds even without chronographing them.

You probably won't run into pressure signs for quite a ways yet - I didn't run into any until 9.8 grains and that was with magnum primers. If you are using large pistol primers, you could even go higher.

I just pulled a bunch of bullets yesterday - I am low on LPPs though and may not have any for a while. Once I get some though I will be testing the 180s and 200s to see how fast I can get them.

Pretty soon I am going to have to get some brass. I think I will get 1,000 this time around. :supergrin:

nickE10mm
04-19-2011, 08:05
Kegs, what is your velocity estimate on my following load:

9.0gr 800X under 200gr XTP
CCI300 primers, new Wonchester brass
OAL 1.257", medium factory crimp

6" Fusion Traditional Hunter, ramped and supported barrel.

I'm guessing upwards of 1300fps or more...

Craigaz
04-19-2011, 20:47
Kegs, what is your velocity estimate on my following load:

9.0gr 800X under 200gr XTP
CCI300 primers, new Wonchester brass
OAL 1.257", medium factory crimp

6" Fusion Traditional Hunter, ramped and supported barrel.

I'm guessing upwards of 1300fps or more...

Please run through the Kegsograph, I'm also curious about the predicted results. :cool:

Kwesi
04-23-2011, 15:17
Great thread! I've been mostly on the reloading forum since I began reloading 1 year ago on a 550. I'd been using A#7, Longshot and Power Pistol prior to getting a # of 800X. I've been loading:

180gr FMJ's from Precision Delta
8.7gr 800X
Starline brass
Wolf LPP
weighing every charge
1.259 OAL
G20 stock barrel + Wolf 22# spring/guide rod IIRC

This is listed as the max load BUT after reading all of your results I'm wondering why? My guess is this is running about 1200 fps (have not been able to chrono yet).

Has anyone been tracking how many loads I should get from Starline brass? I've got a mix of regular & nickel.

BTW: When I've run the other powders with similar velocity in a CA89-10 (8.85" barrel with select fire) I've had some nasty split cases on the 2nd or 3rd load. Have not run the 800X though in it.

Thanks to all for sharing this great info!

21Carrier
04-23-2011, 17:08
Has anyone been tracking how many loads I should get from Starline brass? I've got a mix of regular & nickel.

BTW: When I've run the other powders with similar velocity in a CA89-10 (8.85" barrel with select fire) I've had some nasty split cases on the 2nd or 3rd load. Have not run the 800X though in it.

Thanks to all for sharing this great info!

I still have yet to receive my order of Starline brass, but I do have a few of them that came in a box of Pow'RBall ammo. I haven't shot those reloads yet since the Starline brass reloads are my carry ammo. However, for all my shooting, I use used Federal and Remington Brass. Most have been fired with a max or near max book load at least twice, and all have been fired around 5-6 times. I've only had two splits. Both were in the first 1-2 firings, and I attribute both to either flawed brass, or deep scars/dents that occurred while being fired or stepped on trying to find the damn things.

Sounds like you're experiencing some short life, but I'm pretty new to 10mm. I am also aware I may be pushing my brass pretty close to the edge. Hopefully this Starline will show up and save me!

By the way, Starline brass seems to be thicker and better made than the others. I would expect it to last longer.

Also, I just looked up what the hell a CA89-10 is, and I saw some of your posts on HKPro. NICE pistol/rifle! A full auto 10mm "MP5" would be a monster! I'm not gonna lie, I'm jealous. Full-auto AND 10mm?! It doesn't get much better than that. I am guessing that the full-auto environment might be a little harsher on the brass. Maybe not, though.

Kegs
04-23-2011, 17:20
Please run through the Kegsograph, I'm also curious about the predicted results. :cool:

Bought some new large pistol primers today: 1 cci300 and 1 #2 1/2 - they were the same price...I hate to give all to one company.

9.0 grains ran my 200s @ 1222 average out of a 4.45" barrel and that was with magnum primers.

Add 60 fps for the +1.55" in bbl. length.
Subtract 40 fps for the change in primers.

My prediction is that your 200s will travel @ 1242 average* with 9.0gr. powder, long slide, LPP.

* 10 shot string. 5 shot string is a poopy sample. LOL!

Here's a further prediction: Every change in 0.2gr. increments will result in a 20 fps average increment up to 10gr. when your pistol will be up at 1322 fps average and you may not want to push it much higher than that...work up loads slowly because 8.8gr. is where they start to get hot.

Disclaimer: That funky fusion chamber may screw with my predictions.

Run 'em and see how I did!

Kwesi
04-23-2011, 19:13
By the way, Starline brass seems to be thicker and better made than the others. I would expect it to last longer.

I've only used Starline but I have noticed that the nickel plated is holding up better. I'm getting ready to order more of it.

Also, I just looked up what the hell a CA89-10 is, and I saw some of your posts on HKPro. NICE pistol/rifle! A full auto 10mm "MP5" would be a monster! I'm not gonna lie, I'm jealous. Full-auto AND 10mm?! It doesn't get much better than that. I am guessing that the full-auto environment might be a little harsher on the brass. Maybe not, though.

Thank you. It has been very controllable when fired in short bursts (3-6 rounds) say at 7 yards. It is tough on the brass! I just started to fire my G20 so I'll have to compare the brass.

nickE10mm
04-24-2011, 09:50
Bought some new large pistol primers today: 1 cci300 and 1 #2 1/2 - they were the same price...I hate to give all to one company.

9.0 grains ran my 200s @ 1222 average out of a 4.45" barrel and that was with magnum primers.

Add 60 fps for the +1.55" in bbl. length.
Subtract 40 fps for the change in primers.

My prediction is that your 200s will travel @ 1242 average* with 9.0gr. powder, long slide, LPP.

* 10 shot string. 5 shot string is a poopy sample. LOL!

Here's a further prediction: Every change in 0.2gr. increments will result in a 20 fps average increment up to 10gr. when your pistol will be up at 1322 fps average and you may not want to push it much higher than that...work up loads slowly because 8.8gr. is where they start to get hot.

Disclaimer: That funky fusion chamber may screw with my predictions.

Run 'em and see how I did!

Interesting, thanks for the guesstimate. I don't know that I will run that much 800X under a 200gr pill at all in this pistol... we'll see. I'm not going over 9.0 until I have it chrono mapped. Then, and only then, will I play with working that load up any more. I have to know where I'm at for SURE before I know where I'm going.

:)

Kegs
04-24-2011, 19:44
Please consider posting your results in this page after you chrono your loads. I am as interested as anyone about this - it really is totally a guesstimate. I may load up some 9.0s with lpp this week with 200 xtps and see what I get. Maybe Wednesday if I can catch a break from business - it is picking up like never before - a very awesome thing!

Kegs
04-24-2011, 19:49
Interesting, thanks for the guesstimate. I don't know that I will run that much 800X under a 200gr pill at all in this pistol... we'll see. I'm not going over 9.0 until I have it chrono mapped. Then, and only then, will I play with working that load up any more. I have to know where I'm at for SURE before I know where I'm going.

:)

Oh yeah, I and I feel compelled to state that I wish I was able to own a fusion - especially a double stack 10 in commander size frame with a rail. He does not seem to offer that on his website, but I think that would be the cat's a55!

For now I will remain stuck with this Glock "action pistol" trigger. :upeyes:

nickE10mm
04-25-2011, 09:42
Please consider posting your results in this page after you chrono your loads. I am as interested as anyone about this - it really is totally a guesstimate. I may load up some 9.0s with lpp this week with 200 xtps and see what I get. Maybe Wednesday if I can catch a break from business - it is picking up like never before - a very awesome thing!

I will most DEF post my chrono results ... I've got a range report to report but I've been trying to get homework done and other stuff around the house and just haven't had time. I just got done loading up some 200gr XTP's over 9.3gr 800X this morning ...

Good thing about work picking up!

Snapper2
05-01-2011, 12:28
I decided my g30 45 to 10mm barrel wasnt cutting it(too many jams). So instead of getting a g29, I'm sticking with the 4.5" stormlake 400cb barrel for now. No data for 400cb with 800x so I started with 10mm data. Using a ProChrono...new starline 400corbon brass..cci 500 spp....155gr xtp.....OAL-1.189.....10grs-1254fps....10.5grs-1324fps....10.8grs-1373fps.....11grs-1427fps. Nothing looking real bad as for as primers and measured fired brass.I know you can get more out of a 10mm, but I refuse to push this load further as Cor bon has no data pushing a 155gr bullet past 1300-50 with any powder.

Kegs
05-08-2011, 08:58
Today, 9:30 A/M

200gr. xtp
1-2x fired brass
800x powder
Remington #2 1/2 Large pistol primers

1400 ASL
59F Sunny, <10mph wind
30.06" of HG

Avg. of 5 shots:

8.5gr. = 1149
8.7gr. = 1164
8.9gr. = 1199
9.1gr. = 1220
9.3gr. = 1245

This suggests that magnum primers make no difference in the 200xtp load.

So in my above "forecast" add the difference I suspected it would make to the longslide velocity. :wavey:

nickE10mm
05-08-2011, 16:14
Today, 9:30 A/M

200gr. xtp
1-2x fired brass
800x powder
Remington #2 1/2 Large pistol primers

1400 ASL
59F Sunny, <10mph wind
30.06" of HG

Avg. of 5 shots:

8.5gr. = 1149
8.7gr. = 1164
8.9gr. = 1199
9.1gr. = 1220
9.3gr. = 1245

This suggests that magnum primers make no difference in the 200xtp load.

So in my above "forecast" add the difference I suspected it would make to the longslide velocity. :wavey:

Hey Kegs ... I posted a brief session I had with my chrono with my nuclear 800X loads here: http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=17306152&postcount=11

21Carrier
05-08-2011, 16:54
I also endorse 9.0gr 800-X loading for the 200gr XTP (Rem nickel brass, CCI 300, COAL 1.260"). It is a serious round. I shot a bunch of them out of my stock G29 with no high pressure signs. Brass expansion was .433" maximum, which is still .002" below my personal maximum.

Other 800-X loads that I like are:
Silvertip 175gr, 10.2gr 800-X, CCI 300, Rem nickel, COAL 1.260"
Hornady 180gr XTP, 10.2gr 800-X, CCI 300, Rem nickel, COAL 1.260"
Hornady 155gr XTP, 11.5gr 800-X, CCI 300, Rem nickel, COAL 1.260" (could maybe go higher with this one)

All of these were shot from my stock G29, and none showed any bad pressure signs.

nickE10mm
06-04-2011, 12:01
Date: Monday, May 30th, 2011
Location: SW Missouri, Table Rock Lake, our little corner of Mark Twain National Forest
Weather: Sunny, 81F, Heat Index 86F, Humidity 50%, Pressure 30.09, Altitude ~500ft, Time: 10:00am
Chronograph: Shooting Chrony Beta
Pistol: Fusion Traditional Hunter 1911, ramped 6" barrel, 10mm
COAL: 1.255-1.257"
New Winchester brass
CCI 300 primers

Below are the results of my chrono tests. The format of the data is: Weight/Bullet, Charge/Powder, Lowest Velocity, Highest Velocity, Average Velocity, Extreme Spread, Standard Deviation, Comments All tests are from five-shot strings.

Bullets: Hornady XTP, Winchester (SXT) Supreme Expansion Talon, Wide Flat Nosed (with Gas Check) WFNGC hardcast

180 XTP - 9.0 800X - 1281, 1311, 1294, 30.11, 10.81 - nice load, however, 10.0gr load is better since I'm hand-weighing anyways
180 XTP - 10.0 800X - 1355, 1392, 1379, 36.32, 14.03 - AWESOME load, feels very snappy, can "feel" the power, I'd bet its a deer SLAYER, will play with some more
180 SXT Bonded - 9.3 800X - 1358, 1393, 1373, 35.67, 17.88 - FAST! wow! need to download this per results of water jug test
200 XTP - 9.3 800X - 1263, 1285, 1275, 22.67, 8.1 - my CURRENT deer load, although I will probably increase charges slightly up to around 1340fps or so, we'll see
200 XTP - DoubleTap - 1107, 1175, 1146, 68.42, 27.96 - not impressed but it HAS done its job on two different deer
200 WFN - DoubleTap - 1196, 1216, 1206, 20.09, 9.11 - good solid load, not as good as mine, though
200 WFN - 7.4 PP - 1089, 1105, 1098, 16.03, 6.78 - not too much to say here, either, but would work in a pinch
200 WFN - 9.0 800X - 1218, 1262, 1251, 44.61, 22 - work up part 1
200 WFN - 9.4 800X - 1292, 1334, 1310, 41.61, 21.77 - work up part 2
200 WFN - 9.7 800X - 1341, 1381, 1359, 39.5, 18.54 - work up part 3, awesome load --- POWER!

* NO PRESSURE SIGNS ON ANY OF THESE LOADS... except that the WFN handloads at bottom, primers are VERY slightly starting to flatten. DT load (not sure which one) had a SLIGHT increase in diameter above case web but not a bulge or smile. No bulges or splits at all on my handloads or reloads.

** DISCLAIMER: PLEASE DO NOT ASSUME ANY OF THESE LOADS ARE SAFE IN YOUR PISTOL. PLEASE USE PUBLISHED DATA AND DO YOUR OWN WORKUPS, CHECKING FOR PRESSURE SIGNS ALONG THE WAY.

Taterhead
06-11-2011, 21:18
Loaded some lightweight charges of 800-X under some Nosler 150 grain JHPs. I thought I would add these to the sticky since there is not a lot of data for this powder/projectile combo. I have been looking for excuses to burn through some of the supply of 800-X that I have onhand. I overbought thinking I would like it more than I do.

These would work great for reasonably-inexpensive range or IDPA loads. All functioned well and grouped nicely. Quick follow-up shots. Pressure indications suggest that this could be warmed up substantially, although I'm not sure that these Noslers will hold up under too much more velocity.

Firearm: G20 with factory barrel and spring weight.

Brass: Starline
Primer: CCI 300
Bullet: Nosler 150 gr JHP
Powder: IMR Hi-Skor 800-X
COL: 1.25"
Temp: 60F

9.0 grains (5 shot string)
Average velocity: 1207
ME: 486
Std Dev on velocity: 22.0

9.3 grains (5 shot string)
Average velocity: 1211
ME: 488
Std Dev on velocity: 28.4

9.6 grains (10 shot string)
Average velocity: 1253
M/E: 522
Std Dev on vecotiy: 20.0

I am not aware of any factory load data to reference. The closest is Hodgdon data @ 9.8 grains max for a 155 gr XTP @ 1350 fps. 30,000 PSI. So the loads above are clearly on the medium-low scale with room to grow for those so inclined.

Lammar72
06-27-2011, 22:57
Firearm: G20 with KKM Barrel and Wolfe 22lb Spring Set
Brass: Starline
Primer: CCI 300
Bullet: Hornady XTP 155 gr JHP
Powder: IMR Hi-Skor 800-X
COL: 1.260"
Temp: 77F

No Chrono Data

Most accurate load

9.7gr - 1.47" @ 21 yards [short indoor range] 5-shot group. No signs of any overpressure. This is almost max published load for this bullet but much less than most of the tested loads here..:upeyes:

Burien
07-13-2011, 13:15
Nosler 150 gr JHP with 800x powder and LPP (not mag) in New Star line brass loaded to 1.260"

11.4 gr charge gives me 1490 FPS in my KKM G-29 factory length barrel

The Old IMR 800x data stated that 11.6 gr was the max, I will load some up for testing soon, I have lots of 150 gr Nosler JHP and will see what I can get them going.


Old IMR Load Data Attached below.

Burien
07-13-2011, 21:44
IMR Load Data

Remember 14+ grains on 135gr jhp is considered very very very high, *caution*

http://i1138.photobucket.com/albums/n536/ninemmm/10mm800Xdata.jpg

Burien
07-22-2011, 22:31
I loaded some 150 gr Nosler JHP up to 12 grains of 800x and no change of velocity, I'm going to stop and go the opposite way, maybe 10.5gr they were not consistent on paper at all, like a shot gun pattern at 35 yards, the 180 grain rounds were much much much more tight shooting


I now agree that 135 and 150 gr Noslers are able to be loaded with Mag LPP, but work up with it, and keep the 1.260 COL, only way to get the real fast speed, but accuracy... that could be debatable out of my g29

Kegs
08-31-2011, 18:28
150 noslers.

I just ran 11.2-11.8gr 8-shot relays this evening. Unfortunately, I must have run out of enough light for the chrono to "see" as some of the 11.6 rounds did not register and none of the 11.8 rounds registered at all.

Based on the look of my brass, there is a LOT of room for making these scoot faster. I will probably re-load the 11.8 relay, along with 12.0, 12.3, 12.6, 12.8, and 13.0 gr.

My 11.2 and 11.4 averages were about the same at 1430.
My 11.6 averaged 1454

Based on "median" velocities, I would expect 11.2 will average more like 1420, 11.4 @ 1440, 11.6 @ 1460 and so on...

My goal for this bullet is 1615 fps, which if my forecast is right should be reachable at around 13 grains of powder.

I will be checking spent brass after each relay on the next set of relays.

If all goes well, I will keep going until primers start getting flat or pop, then I will back off. :wavey:

21Carrier
09-01-2011, 14:09
1600fps with the 150gr Nosler will be a SCORCHING load! I've gone to 12.0gr with 155gr XTPs, but stopped due to pressure signs. You should be able to go a bit further with the lighter, shorter Nosler. Plus, you have the aftermarket barrel. I got 1412fps with the 150gr Noslers and 11.7gr 800-X. Of course, all of this was with a stock G29 barrel. That's as far as I've gone with them. Good luck, and don't blow yourself up!

Burien
09-04-2011, 19:20
Finally tested, my load was 1.260" Tula LP Mag, 800x @ 11.6 gr Nosler 150's out of glock 29 KKM factory length = 1490 fps at about 95 degrees. brass looked just fine.

Going to try 11.8 and some 12.0 going up....

Drsteagle8
09-29-2011, 21:45
This is my first post, so forgive me if it is a repeat. I've been looking for answers all over but have not had any luck.

Could someone please send me a link to the 800x loadings?

I see that most loads say to use the CCI 350 primer. What I am doing is unloading some new winchester black tallons and am going to reload with 800x. I wanted to know if it is alright to leave the original winchester primer, or if I need to change it?

I was thinking 9.4g 800X. Please let me know if this is ok. I don't have a chrony to check them.

Thank you all for the help.

nickE10mm
09-30-2011, 08:24
This is my first post, so forgive me if it is a repeat. I've been looking for answers all over but have not had any luck.

Could someone please send me a link to the 800x loadings?

I see that most loads say to use the CCI 350 primer. What I am doing is unloading some new winchester black tallons and am going to reload with 800x. I wanted to know if it is alright to leave the original winchester primer, or if I need to change it?

I was thinking 9.4g 800X. Please let me know if this is ok. I don't have a chrony to check them.

Thank you all for the help.

DrSteagle8,

You are actually IN the 800X thread. Try page one and going through all of the pages of the thread to find the loads. http://glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=179348.

As for unloading Talons, IIRC, we've found that Talon's seem to not be built for true, full power 10mm speed. 9.4gr 800X would be a bit too hot, IMHO. I've loaded some pulled-from-factory BONDED 180gr SXT's (Talon bullet without the talon-tips) and at 9.3gr 800X (1370fps from a 6" barrel) the bullet blew apart into fragments in water jugs. I'd recommend only loading any 180gr Talons to about 1000-1100fps, honestly. If you've got a hold of some new, BONDED Ranger Talon's in 200gr, I'd be anxious to see what kind of speeds that bullet could take, but I'm still not holding my breath. :) The whole idea of a defensive bullet is to ALWAYS open up. You want something tougher for full power 10mm in my opinion.

As for keeping the original primers, I think that would be okay assuming you start low in your workups and work up slowly.

_The_Shadow
12-31-2011, 22:03
I was able to test again today with the 800X 9.4 grains under the 200 Grain XTP, seated to 1.255", 350 CCI LP,
As shot from my S&W 1006 5" barrel, 1254 fps
Primer moderately flattened, casing was 0.4280”
Bullet traveled thru 4 gallon jugs of water and was 2" in the dirt berm
Bullet was expanded to 0.6550" and flattened down to 0.4830" in length
Retained weight was 182.8 grains

Slightly above sea level, Temps in the 70's, humid too!

Added 1/2/12
As shot from my Glock 29 3.78" barrel, 1284 fps
Primer moderately flattened, casing was 0.4340”
Bullet traveled thru 4 gallon jugs of water and was 2" in the dirt berm
Bullet was expanded to 0.6730" / 0.5935” and flattened down to 0.4915" in length
Retained weight was 190.0 grains


I liked this load, but I want to test it from the Glock 29's stock barrel tommorrow!<Done

Last time I ran these the battery in the Chrony was almost dead, New battery sure helps. Had some fun yesterday testing several air rifles and air pistols over the Chrony, when the projectiles hit the 1120-1140 fps mark the sonic crack becomes noticeable. Then the nephews and neices had plenty fun testing their Nerf Guns any where from 37 fps to 59 fps depending on which Nerf product was being shot... :)

nickE10mm
01-03-2012, 07:38
I was able to test again today with the 800X 9.4 grains under the 200 Grain XTP, seated to 1.255", 350 CCI LP,
As shot from my S&W 1006 5" barrel, 1254 fps
Primer moderately flattened, casing was 0.4280
Bullet traveled thru 4 gallon jugs of water and was 2" in the dirt berm
Bullet was expanded to 0.6550" and flattened down to 0.4830" in length
Retained weight was 182.8 grains

Slightly above sea level, Temps in the 70's, humid too!

Added 1/2/12
As shot from my Glock 29 3.78" barrel, 1284 fps
Primer moderately flattened, casing was 0.4340
Bullet traveled thru 4 gallon jugs of water and was 2" in the dirt berm
Bullet was expanded to 0.6730" / 0.5935 and flattened down to 0.4915" in length
Retained weight was 190.0 grains


I liked this load, but I want to test it from the Glock 29's stock barrel tommorrow!<Done

Last time I ran these the battery in the Chrony was almost dead, New battery sure helps. Had some fun yesterday testing several air rifles and air pistols over the Chrony, when the projectiles hit the 1120-1140 fps mark the sonic crack becomes noticeable. Then the nephews and neices had plenty fun testing their Nerf Guns any where from 37 fps to 59 fps depending on which Nerf product was being shot... :)

Thanks for the report, Shadow. I've shot this same load only with a CCI300 primer from my longslide and had similarly measured velocities.

My only question: you got 30fps faster with the G29???

Jitterbug
01-03-2012, 08:15
Interesting report Shadow...Thanks.

_The_Shadow
01-03-2012, 09:05
Thanks for the report, Shadow. I've shot this same load only with a CCI300 primer from my longslide and had similarly measured velocities.

My only question: you got 30fps faster with the G29???

My only thoughts on the higher speed would be the Glock's barrel was clean and very lightly oiled (Read: wiped dry) it was 25 degerees cooler than the S&W1006 test, I had been shooting several thru the S&W1006 so the bore was not clean during the test. :dunno:

mpatch
01-15-2012, 18:28
G20 6" LWD
mixed once fired brass
180gr XTP's
10.0 gr 800x
1.258 oal
cci 350's
chrono 15' ish
5000' asl
50 ish outside
5 shot strings

#1
L 1371
H 1466
A 1421
es 95.8
sd 35.xx

#2
L 1372
H 1440
A 1400
es 67
sd 26.xx

same as above with stock barrel

L 1286
H 1376
A 1314
es 90
sd 45.xx

cases had a little bulge, one or two with a tiny smile, primers pretty flat,
not sure about the spread I think it had to do with using mixed brass

Buffalo Bore
180 gr hp's
3 shots
L 1422
H 1440


BVAC (Bitterroot valley ammo) picked it up today for $195 OTD for 500rds new ammo it is advertised as being 1200 fps

6" LWD barrel
180gr fmj
L 1157
H 1189
es 32
sd 12.9

Any Cal.
03-04-2012, 22:44
Well, I had some SR 7625 to play with, so here goes.

WLP primers, Starline brass, 1.250(ish), 200g plain Jane hardcast, truncated cone.

6.2g 7625 made 1036 in stock gen 3 G20bbl, but was only able to get 2 shots to read, both were the same.

6.2g 7625 averaged 1047 in Lone Wolf 5.2" bbl for 3 shots.

Maine1
04-28-2012, 12:45
Did some comparison loads and ran them today. i had been using a FED LP mag primer and 9.2 gr of 800X under a 200 gr XTP for a solid 1200-1225 FPS. This felt like a pretty stompy load. Virgin starline nickel brass, BTW. 1.57-1.260.Standard length LW barrel.

I loaded 10 with 9.2-9.3 grains of 800x, and with standard Winchester primers..

with one round reading "3350" due to poor lighting, i moved the chrony, heres the rest
1255
1299
1202
-moved chrony-
1248
1253
1265
1245
1149- cloud cover
1232

According to my anal recods, i GAINED about 25 FPS average on this load, and the blast and recoil were noticeably less, and my concerns about running large quantities of these in my G-20 are also less. During load development, my Mag primered 9.3 gr, and even my 9.5 gr loadings did not get a consistent 1200 fps.
I like this load, and though it took some time, and several powders to get the "200 at 1200", and resulted in some disappointment with some powders it was worth it.
Hand weighing 800X is worth this kind of performance, IMO.

I do wonder at the loss of velocity with the mag primers, but do not miss the additional pressure. I want enough to get the job done, nothing more.

_The_Shadow
04-28-2012, 16:28
Maine1, Thanks for the data...that confirms what I was seeing using 9.4 grains from my testing. In fact I preparing to load another 100 of these...:cool:

Maine1
05-11-2012, 15:16
I ran these again with 9.0 grains of 800X, standard primers.
low was 1185, high was 1240 or so.
Pretty good load, i had 2 rounds at 1200, and 2 at 1199.
No need for the extra few grains for me.
..though, getting the XTP to 1275 is fun.
Just don't want to beat up my gun shooting lots of these.

tigman5356
05-28-2012, 23:12
http://i111.photobucket.com/albums/n159/tigman5356/glock21vs206inbarrel.jpg

tigman5356
05-28-2012, 23:13
http://i111.photobucket.com/albums/n159/tigman5356/glock20vs21.jpg


800x in a glock 20 with glock 6'' barrel kicks!!!!

_The_Shadow
05-29-2012, 08:25
TigMan, more info about the bullet, velocity and load data would be nice...:dunno:

Is the plate steel or aluminum?:dunno: looks like aluminum

tigman5356
05-30-2012, 23:50
A36 3/16 sheet metal (mild steel) 155 grain hornady xtp. 6'' glock barrel. double tap brass. I have to review load data, its near the top. 800x powder

tigman5356
05-31-2012, 00:07
12.5 grains 800x

RDub01
08-18-2012, 10:10
Hello
Just picked up my first Glock pistol and it's chambered in 10mm..
And just joined this forum and am enjoying all the experience posted here.
When reloading a new cartridge for the first time, one should gleen as much info as possible..

I'll starting out with stock barrel and spring and see what happens. I have a 22# spring and rod ordered just in case.

I'll start out with 180 and 200gr XTPs and hard cast bullets.
Looks like about 9.0grs with the 200gr and up to about 9.8grs with 180gr with 800X at a length of 1.26" has been good in everyone's experience. 'Course I will work up to that very carefully.
I'll be working with other powders as well..

The only thing that puzzles me about what I have read is the fascination with magnum primers with 800X..

I've loaded just about every handgun round there is over the years for one reason or another and I have never needed to use magnum primers with anything except H-110/296 which is a must..
Even full charges of 2400 in magnum revolver guns behave quite well with standard primers.

800X, in my experience, is not hard to ignite.. It's just a ***** to work with. It's like pouring Wheaties in a powder measure. Hand weighing is a must.
At 11.0grs, it makes a dandy 110gr JHP plinkin load in .357 Mag L-Frame at 1300fps out of a 4" barrel. And is quite useful in the .40S&W.. all with standard primers.

So.. I was just wondering why mag primers are necessary in the 10mm using 800X?

Thanks much

dm1906
08-18-2012, 10:45
Hello
Just picked up my first Glock pistol and it's chambered in 10mm..
And just joined this forum and am enjoying all the experience posted here.
When reloading a new cartridge for the first time, one should gleen as much info as possible..

I'll starting out with stock barrel and spring and see what happens. I have a 22# spring and rod ordered just in case.

I'll start out with 180 and 200gr XTPs and hard cast bullets.
Looks like about 9.0grs with the 200gr and up to about 9.8grs with 180gr with 800X at a length of 1.26" has been good in everyone's experience. 'Course I will work up to that very carefully.
I'll be working with other powders as well..

The only thing that puzzles me about what I have read is the fascination with magnum primers with 800X..

I've loaded just about every handgun round there is over the years for one reason or another and I have never needed to use magnum primers with anything except H-110/296 which is a must..
Even full charges of 2400 in magnum revolver guns behave quite well with standard primers.

800X, in my experience, is not hard to ignite.. It's just a ***** to work with. It's like pouring Wheaties in a powder measure. Hand weighing is a must.
At 11.0grs, it makes a dandy 110gr JHP plinkin load in .357 Mag L-Frame at 1300fps out of a 4" barrel. And is quite useful in the .40S&W.. all with standard primers.

So.. I was just wondering why mag primers are necessary in the 10mm using 800X?

Thanks much

Not sure where you're getting that info, but 800X and magnum primers is NOT advised. In my experience, this powder can be very unpredictable at higher pressures with some calibers (generally larger, .365 and up), which may be attributed to charge-column diameter and/or depth, and a (relatively) very loose stack. Adding magnum primers increased the pressure and velocity inconsistencies in every larger caliber load I have tried (extensively, albeit years ago). It does work well with smaller calibers, .357 and smaller, and is excellent in .32 Mag and 9mm. I've since dumped 800X from my inventory, as there are several equally effective powder options that actually flow, unlike the corn flakes.

Despite this, there are some handloaders who swear by it. If you're a big 800X fan, give it a shot and judge for yourself.

RDub01
08-18-2012, 11:32
Not sure where you're getting that info, but 800X and magnum primers is NOT advised. In my experience, this powder can be very unpredictable at higher pressures with some calibers (generally larger, .365 and up), which may be attributed to charge-column diameter and/or depth, and a (relatively) very loose stack. Adding magnum primers increased the pressure and velocity inconsistencies in every larger caliber load I have tried (extensively, albeit years ago). It does work well with smaller calibers, .357 and smaller, and is excellent in .32 Mag and 9mm. I've since dumped 800X from my inventory, as there are several equally effective powder options that actually flow, unlike the corn flakes.

Despite this, there are some handloaders who swear by it. If you're a big 800X fan, give it a shot and judge for yourself.

Thanks.. That confirms my suspicions..

I was just reading through the IMR load data here, starting from page 1, and noticed that a number of 800X loads listed were using CCI350 primers. That's where I got that information. So I was wondering why that was..

Because I enjoy doing research I'll try it in 10mm to see what it does..

Thanks

Taterhead
08-18-2012, 12:48
RDub01, welcome to the 10mm. I echo what DM1906 said about mag primers. I have noticed big differences. I can pushed to faster velocities with standard primers since pressure symptoms have appeared earlier with mag primers. It is a good idea to start at Hodgdon's starting charges. One lot I was working with gave some pretty nasty excessive pressure indications at 9.6 grains. Smiles were evident at 9.1. This was under a 180 XTP. There is some indication of lot-to-lot inconsistencies.

Good luck. Stay safe, and I look forward to your results.

RDub01
08-18-2012, 22:12
RDub01, welcome to the 10mm. I echo what DM1906 said about mag primers. I have noticed big differences. I can pushed to faster velocities with standard primers since pressure symptoms have appeared earlier with mag primers. It is a good idea to start at Hodgdon's starting charges. One lot I was working with gave some pretty nasty excessive pressure indications at 9.6 grains. Smiles were evident at 9.1. This was under a 180 XTP. There is some indication of lot-to-lot inconsistencies.

Good luck. Stay safe, and I look forward to your results.

Thanks Tater..
Yes, Been working with 800X for quite a while..
800X is kinda like that dog you never really trust.. Never know when it's gonna bite ya.. There is lot to lot variations for sure..

Anyway really looking forward to load development with this new pistol.. I'll post what I come up with.

g29guy
04-02-2013, 19:18
10 mm
180 grain tcfp from MidAtlantic .401
1.26 oal med crimp
assorted brass
300 cci primer
70 degrees
40 % humidity
920' asl
800 x 8.4 grains
shot from Kimber eclipse custom II

manageable, not too harsh on gun good house load

1242 fps
1225 fps
1238 fps
1217 fps low
1241 fps
1244 fps high
1235 fps

1233 average
27 dev

SDGlock23
08-17-2013, 13:29
Some fresh 800x data in today. Figured I'd give the 10mm a spin after playing around with the 45 Super. This is from a stock Gen4 Glock 20. Brass is 1x Midway (Starline) and CCI LP primers were used. About 80 degrees outside, shooting through a Chrony F1 (tripod mounted and leveled).

180gr XTP, 10.0gr 800x @ 1.260": 1,281 fps (27 fps ES)

200gr XTP, 9.2gr 800x @ 1.260": 1,195 fps (51 fps ES)

220gr SNS, 8.4gr 800x @ 1.270": 1,144 fps (18 fps ES)

Brass looked good all the way around in the stock barrel. The 200gr load wasn't as consistent as I like, but I'm still going to play around with it some more. Thinking of 9.5gr loaded out to 1.270" with either the 200gr XTP or Nosler JHP. The 220gr TCFP hardcast is from SNS casting. It did lead the barrel a little, nothing terrible, but it was noticeable. I'll post up more soon.

_The_Shadow
08-17-2013, 15:33
You may want to consider coal of 1.2500" to tighten things up...this will increase the pressures slightly by decreasing case capacity and better case to bullet tension. Using a magnum primer may also improve the ignition properties.

Yes there is a little more room for the powder charge (9.4gr of 800X is what Underwood was using) with the 200 XTP.

SDGlock23
08-17-2013, 17:34
Thanks Shadow, I usually do run a 1.250" OAL in my 10mm loads, I just figured on trying something a little different. However, I will load some up and try them at 1.250" and see what happens.

SDGlock23
08-18-2013, 12:20
A few more:

Gen4 Glock 20 10mm (stock gun, 1x Midway brass, CCI LP primers):

180gr XTP, 10.5gr 800x @ 1.270": 1,315 fps (51 fps ES)
200gr XTP, 9.5gr 800x@ 1.270": 1,227 fps (35 fps ES)
200gr Nosler JHP, 9.5gr 800x @ 1.270": 1,233 fps (26 fps ES)

Not too bad. Next up I'm going to shorten the OAL a little bit to see if it will help out the consistency. I know from past experience that 800x can be very consistent, and while the above isn't terrible, it's not where I want it.

nickE10mm
08-22-2013, 16:17
A few more:

Gen4 Glock 20 10mm (stock gun, 1x Midway brass, CCI LP primers):

180gr XTP, 10.5gr 800x @ 1.270": 1,315 fps (51 fps ES)
200gr XTP, 9.5gr 800x@ 1.270": 1,227 fps (35 fps ES)
200gr Nosler JHP, 9.5gr 800x @ 1.270": 1,233 fps (26 fps ES)

Not too bad. Next up I'm going to shorten the OAL a little bit to see if it will help out the consistency. I know from past experience that 800x can be very consistent, and while the above isn't terrible, it's not where I want it.

I only went higher than 9.5gr 800x with 200gr XTP one time, but it was with a 200gr WFNGC bullet. I don't recommend going any higher than 9.5gr or so.... after all, you've got plenty of velocity at that charge, anyways.

A safe load would be 9.3gr 800X with 200gr XTP from new brass only.

Have fun, be safe!

SDGlock23
09-01-2013, 14:23
Sorry I just saw your reply nickE10mm, yes I feel that 9.5gr is as high as I want to got with an XTP. Yet today I ran 9.7gr of 800x behind a 200gr Beartooth WFNGC, here's my IMR data for today:

Gen4 Glock 20 bone stock

180gr XTP, 10.5gr 800x @ 1.250" (1x Midway, CCI LP): 1,363 fps (15 fps ES)

180gr LaserCast RNFP, 10.5gr 800x @ 1.250"( 1x Midway, CCI LP): 1,384 fps (3 FPS ES!!)

200gr Beartooth WFNGC, 9.7gr 800x @ 1.250" (1x Midway, CCI LP): 1,272 fps (30 fps ES)

Brass look just fine out of the stock barrel. The 200gr BT didn't lead the barrel, but the LaserCast 180gr RNFP did and then some, so I now have some Kroil in the barrel loosening the leading up so when I clean it later tonight it will come out nice and clean.

nickE10mm
09-01-2013, 22:57
Hey SD...

Don't bother with Kroil soaking for that severe leading. The tried and true way to clean lead out of a bore (yes, even heavy leading) is with the copper "Chore-Boy" pads... That should read: PURE COPPER (which won't harm your barrel in the slightest), **NOT** copper-coated steel (which will ruin your barrel)

Pick up a pack of Chore-Boy copper pads at the drug store or grocery mart ... Wrap the pad a few turns tightly around a slightly undersized used copper bore brush (I use an old 9mm brush) and cut off the excess with scissors.

Now, cram that copper "lead-cutting-bob" down your bore with your cleaning rod ***DRY, no solvent*** and make about 5-10 passes back and forth they your barrel and VOILA! No more lead. Presto - severe, caked on crusted up leading removed in 10 seconds. (If you hold your barrel over a white sheet of paper when you do it, you will see what I mean about lead pouring out).

Us heavy cast big bore shooters been doing it for years!

SDGlock23
09-03-2013, 06:17
That's sound advice nickE, I've seen these around before. I'll try it out running it dry next time I get some lead buildup and see how it works>

nickE10mm
09-03-2013, 10:13
That's sound advice nickE, I've seen these around before. I'll try it out running it dry next time I get some lead buildup and see how it works>

http://www.soap.com/p/chore-boy-copper-scouring-pad-2-ct-2-pack-215812?site=CA&utm_source=Google&utm_medium=cpc_S&utm_term=SNS-020B&utm_campaign=GoogleAW&CAWELAID=1323205744&utm_content=pla&adtype=pla&cagpspn=pla

dm1906
09-03-2013, 12:39
......Or Ebay item #390632222914. Good stuff!

nickE10mm
09-03-2013, 12:42
......Or HERE (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/www.ebay.com/itm/Chore-Boy-Copper-Scrubber-GENUINE-coppper-scrubber-6-LOT-/390632222914). Good stuff!

link is broken

dm1906
09-03-2013, 12:48
link is broken

Thanks. Couldn't get rid of the Glock Talk prefix, so no link.

SDGlock23
09-09-2013, 08:33
I did run the copper Chore Boy through a dry barrel last night, after shooting some lead through the 23 and yeap, worked like a champ! I would have never guessed running it through dry but it worked very very well.

SDGlock23
09-21-2013, 16:16
Gen4 Glock 20

Starline brass and CCI LP primers.

230gr WFNGC, 8.4gr 800x @ 1.255": 1,151 fps avg (13 fps ES)

165gr Sierra JHP, 11.0gr 800x @ 1.250": 1,394 fps avg (24 fps ES)

155gr Speer Gold Dot, 11.5gr 800x @ 1.250": 1,463 fps avg (17 fps ES)

135gr Nosler JHP, 12.7gr 800x @ 1.250": 1,542 fps avg (18 fps ES)

My Gen4 20 has some pretty good chamber support for being a factory Glock barrel. The brass looked good, slight bulging on a few loads, but I stress slight and certainly not abnormal. I could have gone higher with the 135gr and 155gr loads for sure, but I can't say that I see a real need to either.

I shot the 230gr WFNGC last, and there was some leading but nothing major. I've had these bullets for a long time but rarely shoot any, and they really weigh around 225gr, not 230gr. I did try 8.6gr with the 230gr WFNGC and it averaged 1,153 but was less consistent, so I see no gain there.

attrapereves
10-23-2013, 09:41
I'm thinking about picking up a lb of 800x to try out. Is is absolutely necessary to hand weigh each load? This seems like a real PITA.

_The_Shadow
10-23-2013, 10:02
I'm thinking about picking up a lb of 800x to try out. Is is absolutely necessary to hand weigh each load? This seems like a real PITA.

That depends on what you expect from your loading and performance...by that I mean thrown charges will vary +/-/=. This is a fairly fast burning powder and small changes can make a big difference.

Hand weighed is an assurance of being exact only if your scale doesn't drift and is repeatable each time.

Absolute must working at the upper edges of performance to avoid over charges...

Hand weighing with this powder yields better uniformity and shot to shot consistency! :supergrin:

nickE10mm
10-23-2013, 14:00
I'm thinking about picking up a lb of 800x to try out. Is is absolutely necessary to hand weigh each load? This seems like a real PITA.


Ahhhhh, yes.... the ol' 800X dilemma....Here's my take on it:

If you were using low enough loads within the 800X range (and most PUBLIC loads are pretty low as it is), you **MIGHT** feel that you were being safe enough to consider trying to throw charges rather than hand-weigh each of them. If you must throw charges, I'd recommend throwing about 100 charges with your equipment and with your charge amount to see exactly how much your weights are varying so you can at least attempt to stay within a safe realm. Here's why I don't really mess with it unless I hand weigh each charge.

First of all, 800X is pretty dirty for me when I don't run it warm or hot.

Second of all, you probably won't get very good accuracy when one charge is 7.2gr and the next is 7.8 or 8.2gr or any wildly varying charges.

Third of all, there are much better powders for almost EVERYTHING other than full power loads in 800X. Why not use one of them?

To ME, 800X is a great powder but only when hand weighed (yes, every charge) and when run near full-tilt-boogie in the 10mm. Its relatively clean, accurate and INHO is the velocity potential KING of all 10mm powders (including Longshot and AA9) ... but the real question is... if you can get near the same velocities with a powder that throws consistently, why bother with the extra few FPS? YMMV.... I can get everything I need from LS, AA7, AA9, BD and PP on the power end of the spectrum and HP38/W231 or WSF are perfect for plinkers

SDGlock23
11-16-2013, 16:31
Some hearty 800x data for the stockpile.

Gen4 Glock 20 with (new) 4.6" KKM barrel

1x Midway brass, CCI LP primers

200gr XTP, 9.8gr 800x @ 1.270": 1,269 fps avg (35 fps ES)

200gr WFNGC, 10.0gr 800x @ 1.250": 1,315 fps avg (30 fps ES)

230gr WFNGC (225gr), 9.0gr 800x @ 1.255": 1,200 fps avg (35 fps ES)