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bdc
10-20-2003, 12:58
I strongly recommend aftermarket barrels with fully supported chamber for handloaders using AA#2 or AA#5.

AA#2 is a fast burning, clean, low flash, powder that you should not push. .2 grains beyound the www.accuratepowder.com 5" barrel data Glocksmiles (ruins) used Winchester brass. Listed maximum loads are actual maximum loads! What kind of fun is that for the curious and innovative reloader?

There is a growing body of statistics that shows little room for error with AA's fastest burning powders. Exercise appropriate caution.

The 5" data does not look too impressive compared to the competition, however for G-29 3.8" barrels, the data listed is very close to actual performance, because the powder almost completely burns in the the short barrel. (Similar to Alliant Power Pistol performance in a short barrel, except that Power Pistol is fairly forgiving with a 5% to 10% push.)(Bullseye is more accurate, but has to be pushed more than 10% to reach similar power levels.)

My load for a 165gr BJHP is 7.8gr @ about 1245 f/s, 568 fLbs, PF 205.
My load for a 180gr BJHP is 7.4gr @ about 1176 f/s, 553 fLbs, PF 212.

(Note: Hornady XTP is higher friction design and the powder charges must be reduced. Use caution to build up a load specifically for your gun starting at a lower powder charge, no matter what bullet you choose.)

I use the 155gr Speer Gold Dot as listed in published data and the 165gr Rem. G. Saber listed in the loads above as my nightstand loads because the numbers are just about ideal for that purpose. The 180gr Rem. G. Saber is a better penetrating load if that will serve your purpose.

Grip reduction: http://glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=13213462#post13213462

Training and Targets: www.glockfaq.com www.sportshooter.com www.mytargets.com www.tackdriver.com Be sure to explore the links!

jem375
10-24-2003, 13:18
Why would you use AA#2 anyway??.....

b8es_
10-24-2003, 18:54
I guess one reason to use it is it is cheap to load with, very few grains. Thats the same reason I use Bullseye for 44mag lswc, its super cheap. But there is always a downfall on the cheap powders I guess, AA#2 is finicky, and Bullseye smokes like a chimney!

spongeman66
10-25-2003, 00:26
I tried AA #2 because I had 5 lbs of it from my Shotgun days. The max listed load of 7.4 behind a 180 produced larger head expansion than factory Winchester Silvertips. Be VERY careful with this fast powder in 10mm.
I ONLY tried it because I had 5lbs on hand. Otherwise I would NEVER have purchased it for 10mm.
Buy 800X, Blue Dot, or Power Pistol for 10mm... I am sure I left another couple of good powders out....
Stay safe and measure those head max diameters...

SupraTT
10-25-2003, 00:36
(edited to keep thread on-topic, now that it is a sticky.)

spongeman66
10-25-2003, 07:23
(edited to keep thread on-topic, now that it is a sticky.)

bdc
10-25-2003, 11:57
Thanks for all your replies and observations.

I choose AA#2 because it is specialized to the application. It achieves near Norma spec performance in a shorter barrel.

Excess flash will blind the shooter.

Excess blast can damage the hearing of your family. The hot gasses and flaming bits of powder can cause other injuries to innocent people.

Excess recoil limits your rate of fire and sight reacquisition.

Equally important as the loading considerations for my application are the point-and-shoot characteristics of the gun.

10-25-2003, 16:15
(edited to keep thread on-topic, now that it is a sticky.)

SupraTT
10-25-2003, 18:25
(edited to keep thread on-topic, now that it is a sticky.)

MakeMineA10mm
10-27-2003, 22:06
Since we didn't have a sticky for Accurate Arms powders, I think we should use this one that bdc started. THANKS, bdc!

Since this is now a sticky for AA powders, please restrict your posts/comments to that brand of powders. There are other threads in this forum to discuss the other brands' powders in the 10mm.

bdc
10-29-2003, 12:35
www.accuratepowder.com

There is a volume of Accurate Load Data still on "The 10 Ring".

Please post your favorite loads and applications for that load at this site to consolidate and compare the data easily.

Accurate manufactures five smokeless double base ball style pistol powders. They are modern clean burning low flash designs that meter superbly in automated reloading machines.

In 10mm you can expect to match factory load performance with AA#5, and modest +P loadings with AA#7. The Jury is still out on AA#9, some think it is "IT", others consider it too bulky with extreme recoil.

Magnum pistol primers are OK for AA#5 and recommended for AA#7 and AA#9. (CCI most often mentioned as preferred, Winchester least preferred.)

I know of several very experienced reloaders who prefer reloading Accurate powders above all others.

For maximum power, loads of other brands of older less mannered powders are superior. Expect excess blast, recoil forces, flash, smoke and soot.

Hodgdon Longshot is a competitor to AA#7. It has all the good modern characteristics of AA#7 with more power at lower presure. Alliant Power Pistol is a competitor to AA#5 in a modern powder.

MCNETT
11-03-2003, 10:39
Posted by Thegman:

AA#9 and AA#7 are still my overall favorite 10mm powders.

They meter great and have very low flash.

Between the two powders, in my G29 (short barrel), max obtainable velocity (without
deforming the bullet) goes back and forth. In my RZ, with the 5" barrel, #9 seems to give
better velocities in most, if not all weights.

Here's what I have on #9 and 150 Nosler.

G29 with KKM barrel

150 Nosler HP

AA#9/16.0 Grains

1.26"/Fed 150 primer

Starline Brass, once fired

1335 fps

---Through 4 layers denim into satured newspaper/

0.68"/0.80" expansion

11" penetration---

I only reached 1260 fps with AA#7

wm7d
11-19-2003, 13:58
deleted

TeamTupperware
01-09-2004, 09:54
Gentlemen...<p>
I currently compete/hunt with a 6" SV/STI style 1911 in .40S&W, only with 1/4" freebore (rifling removed from the chamber end). This allows me to seat my bullets out to 10mm lengths and/or trim 10mm brass to .40 length and go nuts. I have diminished pressure signs and 10mm performance. My 5" gun was pushing a 180gr Gold Dot at 1287fps using a particular AA#7 load, I haven't checked the speed out of my 6" gun with the Golden Sabers that I'm loading now. But it groups beautifully.<p>

It's been my experience, that if you're going for pure speed and power, AA#7 is a very forgiving powder that burns pretty clean if you get the pressures up.<p>

My 5" gun data shoud work for you G20 shooters out there...
START LOW AND WORK UP TO THESE NUMBERS UNLESS YOU OBSERVE PRESSURE SIGNS FIRST. <P>

10.3gr AA#7 //80gr Speer Gold Dot// 1.240 OAL// CCI BR primer
10.3gr AA#7 //180gr Rem Golden Saber//1.240 OAL// CCI BR primer<p>

NOTE!!! <p>
AA#7 will only burn what it can in the barrel, shorter barrels throw about a 5' cylinder of flame out the front. The Bullets mentioned above are the only two bullets I have found that will stay together going through a 300 and 400 pound hog (yes, i said through, and it was actually overkill).

TeamTupperware
01-09-2004, 10:03
This load is a soft feeling 232PF (Weight*Velocity). I still wouldn't shoot it for fun except for exploding gallon water jugs.

MCNETT
05-26-2004, 00:07
85F 5000ft CCI 350 primers Starline brass AA 7 powder 1.255" OAL:

G29:
135gr 13.5gr - 1310fps
155 XTP 12.6 - 1263fps
165gr Sierra 12.0gr - 1232fps
180gr XTP 10.9 - 1145fps
200gr XTP 10.3 - 1092fps
220gr Precision FP 9.2gr - 975fps

G20:
135gr 13.5gr - 1409fps
155 XTP 12.6 - 1356fps
165gr Sierra 12.0gr - 1291fps
180gr XTP 10.9 - 1189fps
200gr XTP 10.3 - 1141fps
220gr Precision FP 9.2gr - 1027fps

6"KKM:
135gr 13.5gr - 1557fps
155 XTP 12.6 - 1462fps
165gr Sierra 12.0gr - 1370fps
180gr XTP 10.9 - 1266fps
200gr XTP 10.3 - 1205fps
220gr Precision FP 9.2gr - 1062fps

Medpilot 2
06-29-2004, 18:02
My Chrono results:
Accurate No.5 / Speer 180 FMJ / Winchester WLP Primers / Starline Brass

G29 stock barrel

7.3gr.
Low: 838
High: 890
Ave: 865

8.0gr.
Low: 908
High: 980
Ave: 945

8.5gr.
Low: 980
High: 1007
Ave: 1001

9.0gr.
Low: 996
High: 1065
Ave: 1036

No signs of over pressure

Medpilot 2
08-06-2004, 16:44
AA#9, 180gr Zero FMJ bullets, Starline brass, CCI 350, OAL 1.250"

G29 KKM barrel

13.1gr
Low: 1141
High: 1196
Ave: 1168

13.6gr
Low: 1200
High: 1236
Ave: 1213

14.1gr
Low: 1197
High: 1265
Ave: 1227

14.5gr
Low: 1245
High: 1309
Ave: 1274

All charges flattened the primers.
Also noticed large recoil above 13.6grs.

BuffaloBo
08-07-2004, 09:15
Originally posted by Medpilot 2
AA#9, 180gr Zero FMJ bullets, Starline brass, CCI 350, OAL 1.250"

14.5gr
Low: 1245
High: 1309
Ave: 1274



Are you pretty close at having a compressed load with this charge?

Medpilot 2
08-07-2004, 11:19
At 14.5gr. you would think so or be close to it. The data I'm using from AA doesn't specify. I don't feel any resistance when seating, even at an OAL of 1.250". AA#9 has the consistency of fine sand, so I'm assuming it's going to be denser than most powders making it take up less volume.

The stuff sure does like to flatten primers. Even at my starting charge of 13.1, the primers showed signs of over pressure. The primers didn't show much change between 13.1 and 14.5, I just noticed a lot more recoil.

I was also testing some Vit N105 and was more impressed by that stuff. No flattened primers at all.

BuffaloBo
08-07-2004, 13:42
Originally posted by Medpilot 2
At 14.5gr. you would think so or be close to it. ]

The main reason why I shy away from AA powders is precisely that. It seems that the full potential of AA powders are limited to case capacity. Another reason is the relatively low velocity/charge ratios compared to other manufacturers. Also, it seems whenever I break the seal off a new container it seems to be gone in no time.

I haven't chrono-ed any #7 in 10mm yet, but have had success in 9mm.

One cannot contest the superior metering of AA powders, though.

Medpilot 2
08-07-2004, 14:42
Originally posted by BuffaloBo
I haven't chrono-ed any #7 in 10mm yet, but have had success in 9mm.

One cannot contest the superior metering of AA powders, though.

Very true, it does meter well.

I have a pound of #7 just sitting on my shelf that I need to try out. Maybe in a few weeks or so.

Medpilot 2
08-12-2004, 16:51
AA#7, 180gr Zero FMJ bullets, Starline brass, CCI 350, OAL 1.250"

G29 KKM barrel

10.3gr
Low: 1104
High:1125
Ave: 1115

10.6gr
Low: 1111
High:1154
Ave: 1127

10.9gr
Low: 1131
High:1165
Ave: 1151

11.2gr
Low: 1147
High:1202
Ave: 1179

11.5gr
Low: 1211
High:1232
Ave: 1225

Lots of flash but seems to be clean burning.

I had my best accuracy with 10.9grs.

Recoil got bad around 11.2grs.

WalterGA
09-05-2004, 16:55
Here's another good example of AA#2, using 180gr. bullets. (not 10mm, but close)

BuffaloBo
09-11-2004, 15:13
Finally got around to picking up another lb of #7.

G20 wih 5" KKM barrel
Winchester nickel cases
CCI standard primers
180 gr Win FMJ
COL @ 1.25"


(7 shot sample)
12.0 gr AA#7
Avg: 1288
Std Dev: 10
Hi: 1305
Lo: 1277


(7 shot sample)
12.3 gr AA#7
Avg: 1324
Std Dev: 11
Hi: 1334
Lo: 1308


(7 shot sample)
12.6 gr AA#7)
Avg: 1365
Std Dev: 16
Hi: 1395
Lo: 1346


I wasn't expecting results so high! For example, I was expecting around 1200 fps for the 12.0 gr sample. Well, after that I watched and examined each case after firing. No signs of flattened primers. I don't think I'll push these any higher.


G20 wih 5" KKM barrel
Winchester nickel cases
CCI standard primers
200 gr Hornady FMJ/FP
COL @ 1.25"

(7 shot sample)
11.6 gr AA #7
Avg: 1266
Std Dev: 6
Hi: 1278
Lo: 1258

This would be a BOSS hunting load! Again, I wasn't expecting such high numbers. Very tight group.


I loaded up some 40's also. Not to sound like a broken record, but I didn't expect the numbers that I recorded!
I had to scrub about half of my .40 loadings in 180 gr and 200 gr. In some instances, cases were quite bulged. Playing it on the safe side, I will disasseble the ones I wasn't too comfortable with firing.

G-20er
09-13-2004, 13:25
Just received my first pound of AA#9 powder and will be working up loads in the G-20 using the 200gr. XTP bullet. Starting loads at 13 grains, then moving to 13.5, 14.0 and last group to be fired if pressure is still within limits will be 14.3 grains. Will post the data here as soon as I get these rounds through my chronograph. Looking to reach somewhere around 1225 fps. Also reference VV load data. Basically I'm trying to find a hunting load and I'll be comparing AA#9 to the VV 3N38 with all loads using 200 gr. XTP, starline brass and CCI350 primers.

Medpilot 2
09-13-2004, 15:28
I like Vit powders better than Accurate. N105 works very well for 10mm.

G-20er
09-13-2004, 16:44
Medpilot,

I saw all your posts about N-105 and I was going to choose that powder; however, after further thought I think with the 200 grain bullets N-105 may use up all case capacity before proper velocities are reached.
I had great luck with N-110 in my .44 Mag reloads, so I love this brand of powder but I decided to go with 3N38 since it was slightly smaller than N-105, which should cause it to pack better and in theory since its slightly faster on the burn rate chart should take slightly less powder to get the job done. N-105 probably is the best VV powder for all bullet weights below 200 grains.
Last night I loaded the rounds with 3N38 and believe me with 9.5 through 10.8 there is absolutly no more room for anything any higher. Load density is right at 100% which is exactly what I like. I like to max out velocity within pressure limits and also have the load density right at 98-100%
What are your thoughts?

Medpilot 2
09-13-2004, 21:11
One thing I've noticed about the tubular shape of Vihta Vuori powders is that you can compress it a little more than other powders like flattened ball powders. But for a 200 grainer max load, like you, I'd go the next step down to 3N38.
Looks like you are on the right track.

If you get a chance, compare the pressure signs for an equivalent load using Accurate Arms and see if you notice any difference between the two powders. I noticed that A.A. will show pressure signs before Vit powders on a comparative level.

G-20er
09-19-2004, 17:08
Ok here is the new data using AA#9 with 200 grain XTP Bullets.

G-20 with stock length barrel.
Starline Brass
CCI 350 primers
OAL of 1.260




13 grains:
GROUP #2
1) 1110.0 -10.4
2) 1106.0 -14.4
3) 1126.0 5.6
4) 1101.0 -19.4
5) 1122.0 1.6
6) 1111.0 -9.4
7) 1147.0 26.6
8) 1136.0 15.6
9) 1117.0 -3.4
10) 1128.0 7.6
High: 1147.0
Low: 1101.0
E.S.: 46.0
Ave.: 1120.4
S.D.: 14.2
95%: 12.0



13.5 grains
GROUP #3
1) 1143.0 -18.4
2) 1151.0 -10.4
3) 1173.0 11.6
4) 1160.0 -1.4
5) 1170.0 8.6
6) 1159.0 -2.4
7) 1162.0 0.6
8) 1157.0 -4.4
9) 1178.0 16.6
10) 1162.0 0.6
High: 1178.0
Low: 1143.0
E.S.: 35.0
Ave.: 1161.4
S.D.: 10.2
95%: 8.0



14 grains:
GROUP #4
1) 1206.0 -3.8
2) 1230.0 20.2
3) 1216.0 6.2
4) 1222.0 12.2
5) 1206.0 -3.8
6) 1204.0 -5.8
7) 1199.0 -10.8
8) 1221.0 11.2
9) 1204.0 -5.8
10) 1191.0 -18.8
High: 1230.0
Low: 1191.0
E.S.: 39.0
Ave.: 1209.8
S.D.: 11.8
95%: 10.0




14.3 grains:
GROUP #5
1) 1246.0 12.2
2) 1248.0 14.2
3) 1254.0 20.2
4) 1219.0 -14.8
5) 1233.0 -0.8
6) 1225.0 -8.8
7) 1223.0 -10.8
8) 1244.0 10.2
9) 1223.0 -10.8
10) 1224.0 -9.8
High: 1254.0
Low: 1219.0
E.S.: 35.0
Ave.: 1233.8
S.D.: 12.8
95%: 10.0

Maximum safe load with stock barrel at 65 F OAT was:

13 grains which only produced 1120 fps. 13.5 gave me 50% of brass with light smileys. 14.0 gave me all light smileys on brass with black streaks comming from primer seam. 14.3 all brass had heavy smileys that you can catch your nail on and one brass that was split through the wall lengthwise with case, talking about being lucky. WOW!



Maximum safe load with KKM barrel at 65 F OAT was:

14.3 grains which produced 1233 fps. In high temperatures I would recommend 14 grains as max charge. 14 grains will also be my personal maximum with KKM barrel. That puts the 200 grain XTP at 1209 fps.

I am learning that with the KKM aftermarket barrel with powders in this burn range, you can load 10% more powder which gives you approximately 110 fps with same pressure signs as compared to the Glock stock barrel.

AA#9 showed equal pressure signs at 20 fps sooner as compared to VV 3N38.

Medpilot 2
09-19-2004, 18:31
Very thorough post.

How compressed was the 14.3gr load?

G-20er
09-19-2004, 18:45
Medpilot,

Funny you should ask...it was tight man. The 14.3 is completely maxed out without too much compression. I say this because the OAL with the charge of 14.3 was actually 1.263 the bullet actually sprung back .003 of a inch. The load of 14 grains would be the best load for all conditions in the KKM barrel with the 200gr. XTP.

What a great weekend at the range. I learned so much and finally found a keeper which as you know was the VV 3N38. It gave me way better SD, higher velocity at lower pressure levels as compared to AA#9.

Can't wait to get my Nickle Brass, should be here on Monday.

How is your load testing doing? Are we done yet? :)

I think we have tested the best powders for the 10mm that are available over the counter. I'm ready to load several hundred rounds with the VV 3N38.

Medpilot 2
09-19-2004, 20:51
There were a few weeks where I went non-stop (a few hundred rounds a week). I'm sorta taking a little break right now. :)

I'm glad you did the comparisons between the factory and KKM barrels. I don't have the kahunas to shoot nuclear loads from a factory barrel. Just more proof for the folks who say aftermarket barrels are a waste of money.

I don't think this whole testing thing ever gets done. Seems like there is an endless variance of loads you can work up. :)

Glolt20-91
12-29-2005, 11:54
Just a slight variation of what G-20er posted.

Stock G20 AA#9, 200gr XTP, 57F, 4200ft, 1.26" OAL, .421" crimp, R-P nickle once fired, WLP;

13.2grs, avg 1139fps, hi 1147fps, lo 1129fps, ES 18fps; no pressure signs.

Adios,
Bob

ppro
01-02-2006, 16:49
Tested Berry's plated 200 gr. hollowpoint with new Winchester brass, CCI 350 Mag. primer and 13.0 grs. AA#9

OAL: 1.266 (seating depth affected by powder compression at 13.0 grs. Bullet rebounds from compression about 3 thousandths, to 1.266

Tested in two different stock std. barrel length G-20's

No smiles on fired brass and good function.

Both guns shot this combination very well (average 2" groups at 25 yds both guns.

good 100 % density load.

Paul

Glolt20-91
01-29-2006, 01:59
Once the chrono comes back from factory repairs and the G20 gets some new innards including a 6" KKM, then I'll do a side-by-side with Blue Dot and AA #9 with 165gr Golden Sabers. :)

Adios,
Bob

MTMilitiaman
02-19-2006, 21:04
Has anyone tried AA # 9 with a 180 gr Hornady XTP? The Hornady manual lists 14.9 as max for 1250 fps, but this comes out to be 18% compressed on Quickload and they actual recommend a max charge of around 12.1 gr. So I just loaded up 50 of them in Double Tap once fired brass with CCI 350 primers and a 180 gr XTP over 12.1 gr of AA No 9. Will try them as soon as I get my KKM.

Wanted to know if the Hornady max load is going to be too compressed and if, in your experience, it is a safe load to aspire to? Has anyone chronoed AA # 9 with the 180 gr XTPs and if so, what velocities were achievable? I ain't looking for McNett level but was sort of hoping for something between 1200 to 1250 fps from a standard length barrel.

ppro
02-19-2006, 22:13
AA#9 & Sierra 190 tournament master

Short test:

Sierra 190 Tournament master
New Winchester brass
CCI 350 primer
13.7 AA#9
seating 1.255

Glock model 20
In 6" Storm Lake barrel: ave vel. 1265 fps
In factory barrel: ave vel. 1200 fps

Very good accuracy both barrels, better in the Storm Lake (as usual)

Stopped load development at the 13.7 as velocity and accuracy were good, and Glock smiles will appear in the factory barrel with much more powder added. Plus, though ammo kept warm, weather was cool and I will verify pressure when the weather warms up some...i.e. no glock smiles in the factory barrel. The Storm Lake barrel could take some more powder, but I am satisfied for now.

Will use this combination for my field load. I checked with
Sierra, and the 190 Tournament Master has a fairly heavy (thick) jacket and fairly soft lead core. From the 10mm, about all I expect is some riveting from like a medium game shoulder shot...mainly due to the design of the bullet.

Nice Load...

Paul

Glolt20-91
02-25-2006, 01:52
I worked up some 180gr Golden Sabers with AA #9; G-20, KKM 6", Win virgin brass, Federal 150 Match primer, 1.252-1.254", 7 shot strings, 4200', 57F, 12% humidity.

Starting at 14.3grs, ES of 79fps too much;

14.5grs - 1336fps, 713fpe, ES 14, SD 04;

14.8grs - 1371fps, 751fps, ES 23, SD 08.

I've found Golden Sabers to be a little slower than Gold Dots, but they have been very accurate in all my sidearms. :)

Adios,
Bob

ppro
02-25-2006, 19:20
Glolt20-91

Youv'e got those Golden Sabers screaming right along !

How did you get the bullet to stay put at those charge levels.

With the Sierra 190, at 14.4 grs and AA#9 it starts pushing the bullet back out. I am seating in one step and taper crimping in another, but at the 14.4, I get 2 to 3 thousands bullet spring back with the 190. The Golden Saber must be enough shorter to allow the charge.

Something interesting.....

I tested a G 20 Storm Lake 5" barrel with 13.7 and 14.2 of AA#9, Winchester brass CCI 350 primer, seating depth 1.260 for Sierra 190 and there was only 13fps average velocity difference between the two charges. Must be one of those early compression things where as compression starts, velocity flatlines (so to speak)till the charges are heavy enough. I retested it a couple times just to make sure and it stayed the same. The lower 13.7 charge was much better standard deviation than the 14.2 so I guess I will stay at the 13.7 since another 1/2 grain netted almost nothing.....the 13.7 charge & 5" Storm Lake barrel gives 1248 fps average velocity with the Sierra 190.

I will give the 180 Golden Sabers a try...I like them better than the Gold Dots anyway.....

regards

Paul

Glolt20-91
02-28-2006, 16:43
I learned during personal barrier testing that the Golden Saber is one of the toughest bullets on the market, followed by Gold Dot. Once in awhile GS will have a jacket separation, but it's rather rare compared to other brands. :)

Shot out one of the supports on my chrono, when the replacement arrives I have some 200XTPs to test out with AA #9 and KKM barrel. :)

I misread your post on bullet length.

180gr GS random sample is .635" long;

200 XTP random sample is .684" long.

The only Sierra bullets I have are rifle calibers, hope the above helps. :)

Adios,
Bob

ppro
02-28-2006, 18:45
Glolt

Glolt
Since this is the Accurate Arms powder data post area, would you e mail me a synopsis of your barrier testing with the Golden Sabre's and weights tested...please. Barrier penetration is a area I am keenly interested in and I especially wondered about the Golden Saber's.

YOu could just e mail to: ppro.........@.....mychoice.cc

Just drop all the dots but the one before the cc

thanks

Paul

Glolt20-91
03-06-2006, 23:20
Paul, e-mail sent. :)

Adios,
Bob

Glolt20-91
05-21-2007, 18:31
KKM sent a replacement 6" barrel because of accuracy issues with the first one, so it's back to testing again because every barrel is different. Stock recoil spring/rod.

Using data from Speer and Hornady manuals, started out with 11.4grs and both manuals have a maximum of 12.0grs with their respective bullets.

Mid 90s, 30.04"AP and falling, 10%RH, 4200ft, Starline, WLP, 1.260" COAL, seven shot string, CED Millenium:

180gr GS - 1347fps/725fpe, ES 38fps, SD 13fps;

180gr Win JHP notched - 1373fps/753fpe, ES 24fps, SD 09fps

Power factor with both rounds in excess of 240 and a milder felt recoil than 10.7grs of HS-7 @1286fps/661fpe - old KKM barrel w/22# recoil spring/steel guide rod.

Replacement KKM barrel excellent on demand, freehand accuracy at 55 meters with both bullet loadings. No pressure signs.

I've started using the Win JHP notched more frequently in the last few months in multiple calibers; like what I'm seeing, especially in barrier testing. :)

Bob :cowboy:

Carphunter
05-28-2008, 20:17
AA#7
180 Rem FMJ
multi-fired brass
large magnum pistol primers cci 350
COAL ~ 1.26
Crimped only to remove bell from case (.424"-.423" ish dia.)
Chrony at 15" from muzzle
Shot only to find max load for guns and get some fps numbers.
60-70 F

Glock 20, 6" Glock Hunting Barrel
at 11.4, all rounds had flattened primers, and had a case ring diameter of .434 (my gun's observed max).
at 11.1 all rounds had flattened primers (not quite as bad as 11.4), and diameter of .434
at 10.8 some flatter primers, case diamater from .433 to .434
I'd feel safe probably up to 11.1... but know that 10.8 is better. I'll do further testing in this area.

9.9 gr
1110
1086
1158
1152

10.2 gr
1131
1129
1168
1174

10.5 gr
1189
1222
1209
1202

10.8 gr
1217
1238
1232
1247

11.1 gr
1271
1278
1260
1253

11.4 gr
1303
1284
1288
1293



S&W 610, 6.5"
All cases at all loads have flattened primers. At 11.4, primers filled all voids of pocket, and hung the cylinder on either a stuck case, or stuck case on firing pin ring on receiver face
11.1 showed no tightness when removing cartridges. Would call 11.1 max load.

9.9 gr
1086
1136
1161
1098

10.2 gr
1129
1193
1187
1174

10.5 gr
1201
1226
1222
1231

10.8 gr
1250
1231
1268
1267

11.1 gr
1230
1257
1288
1299


11.4 gr
1330
1295
1321
1318

f4tweet
08-05-2008, 15:55
I shoot a G-20 with a stock length Barsto Barrel. I have been using a published recipe of 11.0 gr of AA-7. 1.250 OAL. WLP, and a 180gr. Rainier FP bullet. Without the benefit of a chronograph, I saw some of the same indications over 11.0gr. The published speed on this @ 11.0 is 1200fps, so I imagine you are seeing a bit more velocity with a 6" barrel. AA-7 is a primer flattener, no doubt about it, and it burns clean, and meters well. I have tried other powders, but I am still happiest with AA-7, no matter where it is made. Thanks for publishing your data.

Carphunter
08-06-2008, 14:49
I'm going to do some #9 test loads. I'm starting with my 180 Rem FMJ, but does anyone have approximate start/max load numbers for Rem Golden Saber 165?

Carphunter
08-08-2008, 08:51
AA#9
180 Rem FMJ
multi-fired brass
large magnum pistol primers cci 350
COAL ~ 1.26 (found a little creep in a some of the low-power rounds unrelated to load)
Crimped (.421"-.422" ish dia.)
Chrony at 15" from muzzle
Shot only to find max load for guns and get some fps numbers.
70's F

Followed load data from two sources, Hornady book and Accurate web. Accurate listed loads from 12.2-13.5. Hornday started much lower and went up to 14.9

Glock 20, 6" Glock Hunting Barrel
at 14.9, rounds had semi-flattened primers (not squished). Rounds were maxing at .433 case diameter. Didn't make .434 (my gun's observed max).
From 14 up, recoil was assertive.
All loads seemed to leave a lot of crud behind unburnt or dirty powder... lots of little yellow flecks

12.2 gr
1149
1170
1160
1183

12.5 gr
1099
1145
1172
1168

12.8 gr
1162
1174
1143
1195
1207

13.1 gr
1234
1186
1217
1233

13.4 gr
1231
1218
1251
1226

13.7 gr
1280
1251
1257
1244

14.0 gr
1254
1274
1269
1251

14.3 gr
1278
1299
1297
1267

14.6 gr
1302
1302
1308
1309

14.9 gr
1316
1299
1293
1294



S&W 610, 6.5"
Flattened primers appeared early. Have to reexamine cases for more detail at different charges.
If I fire one shot at a time and open cylinder, I didn't have problems with the cylinder not wanting to open. Cases always extracted smoothly, no bind. If I fired 3 rounds in succession, not opening the cylinder, I did see some issues opening the cylinder above 13.1 gr. Cases are never stuck to receiver face. It seems it has something to do with the gear in the center of the cylinder. Cylinder turns easily.... so not sure what's happening


12.2 gr
1106
1180
1142
1160

12.5 gr
1166
1155
1193
1160

12.8 gr
1167
1188
1217
1207
1239

13.1 gr
1194
1230
1241
1225

13.4 gr
1218
1248
1241
1221

13.7 gr
1253
1255
1282
1255

14.0 gr
1288
1278
1259
1307

14.3 gr
1300
1337
1318
1305

14.6 gr
1346
1340
1322

14.9 gr
1283
1348
1334
1307

f4tweet
08-08-2008, 09:42
AA-7 burns better than AA-9 for me. I use AA-9 in .44 Mag. I also use a standard WLP with AA-7. My OAL is 1.250. Good Luck.

Carphunter
08-08-2008, 14:26
in these powders, aside from case capacity, what difference will the 1.25 vs 1.26 oal make?

f4tweet
08-08-2008, 16:14
I found the 1.250 feeds better in my Glock & Para conversion, and a little more pop...The main thing was feeding.

Carphunter
08-08-2008, 17:03
ok, good to know. I haven't had any issues with the 1.26"

I've found a problem in my reloading practice. When I load longish 1.261-1.266; and when I have a longer than normal case, I'm getting a bulge in the bullet from my crimp. I'm fairly certain this affects my velocity readings in my pistols...and other uses.

Need to get a .40 bullet comparator or drop in round checker to avoid this

Carphunter
08-10-2008, 19:18
Reset my press today to take care of seating variance/crimp variance.

Now loading to 1.25" COAL
Starline new brass
crimp to .422
cci 350
shooting at 76 deg
chrony at 15'

Strings were shot 5 in g20, 5 in 610, then repeat

Glock only had one round that made .434" case ring (my gun's observed max)

From my numbers, I'm guessing that in the pistols, the bullet's out of the barrel before all the powder's burned.

G20
14.5 gr
1293
1316
1304
1314
1325
1333
1326
1316
1332
1350

610
14.5 gr
1349
1313
1320
1324
1305
13470
1324
1317
1328

Carphunter
08-11-2008, 21:38
I'm waiting to see if it's ok to put non-pistol, 10mm data here... but as a tease, did you know a 180 Rem fmj on 14.5 gr of #9 will do from 1530-1550 ish in a 16" gas-op 10mm ar? :)

f4tweet
08-11-2008, 21:44
Why not? 10 MM is 10 MM.

Carphunter
08-11-2008, 21:52
just want to be sure no one gets panties in a wad :)

I don't intend to post load numbers for anything but my pistol-safe loads... but I can give velocities of those loads in the ar when I run it

SDGlock23
09-02-2008, 12:40
180gr FMJ, Starline brass, Fed 150primers
8.6grs AA#5
AVG out of Glock 20: 1031 fps.

Not too bad for a plinking 10mm load.

TheSniper
10-19-2008, 20:03
G20 6" OEM barrel:
7600 ft, 45 degrees

180gr GDHP 14.5gr #9=1264 avg fps
180gr HornadyXTP 14.2gr #9=1255 avg fps
180gr speer TMJ 14.5gr #9=1220 avg fps

third firing on starline brass(max)
CCI300
Coal:1.250 crimped
cronoed at 10 ft

TriggerItch
10-13-2009, 16:47
85F 5000ft CCI 350 primers Starline brass AA 7 powder 1.255" OAL:

G29:
135gr 13.5gr - 1310fps
155 XTP 12.6 - 1263fps
165gr Sierra 12.0gr - 1232fps
180gr XTP 10.9 - 1145fps
200gr XTP 10.3 - 1092fps
220gr Precision FP 9.2gr - 975fps

G20:
135gr 13.5gr - 1409fps
155 XTP 12.6 - 1356fps
165gr Sierra 12.0gr - 1291fps
180gr XTP 10.9 - 1189fps
200gr XTP 10.3 - 1141fps
220gr Precision FP 9.2gr - 1027fps

6"KKM:
135gr 13.5gr - 1557fps
155 XTP 12.6 - 1462fps
165gr Sierra 12.0gr - 1370fps
180gr XTP 10.9 - 1266fps
200gr XTP 10.3 - 1205fps
220gr Precision FP 9.2gr - 1062fps

Whoa, hold on now! Your AA#7 charges for 200 and 220 are insanely dangerous...WAY over pressure (>50 kpsi :shocked:): insta hand grenade.

135gr through 165gr data is actually overly cautious, although the 180gr loading is a little too hot.

hill billy
03-04-2010, 15:56
Whoa, hold on now! Your AA#7 charges for 200 and 220 are insanely dangerous...WAY over pressure (>50 kpsi :shocked:): insta hand grenade.

135gr through 165gr data is actually overly cautious, although the 180gr loading is a little too hot.

I am curious how you are deriving your pressure numbers. Would you mind sharing?

The only 10mm I use AA powders for is my 200.

Berry's 200gr plated RS
G20-6" ported LW barrel
CCI or Win primer
14.3 Gr of #9
High 1248
Low 1210
Alt-4500 ft
Temp 65

preventec47
06-07-2010, 02:21
I have taken as many sources as I could find as far as factory load
data and compiled into one document for easy reference for 155gr
and some 200gr bullets. See attached

mannyCA
07-11-2010, 14:30
Here is some data I recently obtained using AA #5

firearm - Glock 20 early 3rd Gen.
- Starline Brass
- Montana Gold 155 gr. JHP
- Wolf Large Pistol Primers
- OAL 1.250"

9.5 gr AA#5 - 1260fps
10 gr AA#5 - 1309 fps
10.2 gr AA#5 - 1339 fps

here are some of the recovered slugs...

preventec47
07-12-2010, 08:11
Those bullets are what I would have expected their FMJ bullets to look like instead of hollow points. What were you shooting the bullets into ? The only bullets I have to load are 155gr Hornady XTP and 155 gr Xtreme Rounded Flat Nose Copper
coated bullets.

I have discussed the Accurate Arms load data for 155 gr in the Hornady load manual with their ballisticians and they concede they made some big mistakes with the AA#7 data and have withdrawn their published data and are duplicating the current Accurate Arms data for their 155gr XTP bullets.
This concerns only the AA # 7 powder.

Since Accurate Arms shows the highest performance with their #9 powder with the 155gr bullets, The Hornady ballistician stated that the very max velocities would be with a powder
between #7 and #9 since AA points out that their pressures with #9 are less than SAAMI max and that the velocities are limited by case capacity.

Taterhead
02-19-2011, 19:39
I went to the range today and am very pleased with the results. I am looking for a good target/IDPA load, and I wasn't looking to push velocities at all. Plated bullets do not respond well to high pressures and velocities. I have used Blue Dot extensively in the past - with great results. But I do not like the report, flash, and dirtiness of Blue Dot.

All charge weights shown were satisfactory altough two charge weights stood out as more precise. A7 is a clean-burning powder and exhibits milder felt recoil compared to Blue Dot with the same projectile and velocities. Pressure symptoms were non-existent for all weights as determined by max case expansion and other observations.

Firearm: G20
Temp: 35
Elevation: 3000
Bullet: Berry's MFG 180 gr FP plated DS
Brass: Starline
Primer: CCI 300
Powder: Accurate No. 7
COL: 1.26"
Crimp: light
10 shot strings

9.7 grains
Average 1055
Std Dev 12.4

9.9 grains
Average 1080
Std Dev 10.6

10.1 grains
Average 1098
Std Dev 13.9

10.3 grains
Average 1105
Std Dev 16.4

10.5 grains
Average 1140
Std Dev 11.7

9.9 grains and 10.3 grains demonstrated the highest precision - despite the fact that the 10.3 grain load had the highest standard deviation on velocity. Blue Dot groups better for me with this bullet, but these charges are sufficient to score "down 0" hits on IDPA targets.

I'm probably going to run with 10.3 grains for IDPA after I test a few more dozen rounds. That is pretty stout for competition (power factor = 198,900) considering a lot of guys are running 115 grain 9mm pills @ 1100 fps to barely make minimum power factor in the SSP division.

Glock20 10mm
04-14-2011, 20:41
I am looking at the Accurate load data chart (just downloaded an updated version) and I can't find a load for 155gr lead. There is 140gr and 170gr but no 155gr.

I use Accurate #7 for all my hand loads. Currently I am looking for load data for 155gr Meister lead rounds: P/N RB-10-155RN, to be shot out of my G20C with a Stormlake 6" barrel.

There is load data for the 40SW, but I don't know if I should use load data from one caliber to another (yes, I know 10mm is .40). So any one here have an idea? Would it be acceptable to use the .40SW load data and work from there?

Taterhead
04-15-2011, 08:54
I am looking at the Accurate load data chart (just downloaded an updated version) and I can't find a load for 155gr lead. There is 140gr and 170gr but no 155gr.

I use Accurate #7 for all my hand loads. Currently I am looking for load data for 155gr Meister lead rounds: P/N RB-10-155RN, to be shot out of my G20C with a Stormlake 6" barrel.

There is load data for the 40SW, but I don't know if I should use load data from one caliber to another (yes, I know 10mm is .40). So any one here have an idea? Would it be acceptable to use the .40SW load data and work from there?

It should be ok to use .40 data. I would start with the max load listed for the forty and work up from there until you reach the desired outcome.

Glock20 10mm
04-18-2011, 19:01
Taterhead, thanks for the input. I'll run with that data and see how things turn out!

agtman
06-12-2011, 15:22
Just checking in to see what 10Ringers have cooked up using AA#7 and Hornady's 200gn FMJ-FP.

Looking for recommendations on loading these hot in once-fired brass (Starline).

Thanks!

:cool:

gator378
07-03-2011, 11:06
in these powders, aside from case capacity, what difference will the 1.25 vs 1.26 oal make?

With my G20, as the OAL gets to or exceeds 1.26, I start to experience some failures to feed with the Rainers.

whenmonkeysfly
07-03-2011, 12:58
Carphunter,

All things being equal, most all my handloaded 10mm's seem to run better at 1.250 to 1.255, but that's with Montana Gold 180 grain CMJ's or JHP's. (When experimenting/checking OAL, I found Double Tap's OAL to easily vary between 1.243 - 1.260, but still seemed to feed fine.

(My stock Glock barrels will eat just about anything, but ruin the brass for reloading.)

whenmonkeysfly
07-03-2011, 13:11
I'm waiting to see if it's ok to put non-pistol, 10mm data here... but as a tease, did you know a 180 Rem fmj on 14.5 gr of #9 will do from 1530-1550 ish in a 16" gas-op 10mm ar? :)

I want one! (Just can't afford one now.)

Taterhead
09-25-2011, 19:49
155 gr XTPs with Accurate No. 9

Ran some new loads over the chrony today. Respectable results. No issues.

Firearm: G20 with stock spring and barrel
Temp: 85 low humidity
Five shot average except for last three strings were 10 shots each. Velocities were not corrected to the muzzle.

Bullet: Hornady 155 gr XTP
Case: Starline
Primer: CCI 350
Powder: Accurate #9
COL 1.25"

14.3 gr
Average velocity: 1293
ME: 575

14.6 gr
Average velocity: 1309
ME:590

14.9 gr
Average velocity: 1332
ME: 610

15.2 gr
No data - chrony errors

15.5 gr
Average velocity: 1370
ME: 646

15.8 gr
Average velocity: 1401
ME: 675

16.0 gr
Average velocity: 1415
ME: 689

Notes: Accurate's max is 15.9 gr with a standard primer @ 32,700 PSI. I elected to go with a mag primer to ensure a good burn with that much powder. With the mag primers, I suspect that the pressures were a bit higher. They were getting warm (as noted by case expansion) by 15.8 gr. I suspect that bumping another 3-5 tenths would not be an issue, but case volume is about maxed at 16.0 gr.

The starting load was 50 fps faster than what Accurate was reporting from a 5# barrel. The top velocity was very close to book. I may try these with standard primers to see how they run. As is typical with A9, very clean burn. Little powder residue. These have a pretty pronounced recoil at 15.5 gr + and quite a bark. No issues with groups @ 15 yards.

OregonG20
10-02-2011, 18:33
155 gr XTPs with Accurate No. 9

Ran some new loads over the chrony today. Respectable results. No issues.

Firearm: G20 with stock spring and barrel
Temp: 85 low humidity
Five shot average except for last three strings were 10 shots each. Velocities were not corrected to the muzzle.

Bullet: Hornady 155 gr XTP
Case: Starline
Primer: CCI 350
Powder: Accurate #9
COL 1.25"

14.3 gr
Average velocity: 1293
ME: 575

14.6 gr
Average velocity: 1309
ME:590

14.9 gr
Average velocity: 1332
ME: 610

15.2 gr
No data - chrony errors

15.5 gr
Average velocity: 1370
ME: 646

15.8 gr
Average velocity: 1401
ME: 675

16.0 gr
Average velocity: 1415
ME: 689

Notes: Accurate's max is 15.9 gr with a standard primer @ 32,700 PSI. I elected to go with a mag primer to ensure a good burn with that much powder. With the mag primers, I suspect that the pressures were a bit higher. They were getting warm (as noted by case expansion) by 15.8 gr. I suspect that bumping another 3-5 tenths would not be an issue, but case volume is about maxed at 16.0 gr.

The starting load was 50 fps faster than what Accurate was reporting from a 5# barrel. The top velocity was very close to book. I may try these with standard primers to see how they run. As is typical with A9, very clean burn. Little powder residue. These have a pretty pronounced recoil at 15.5 gr + and quite a bark. No issues with groups @ 15 yards.

That is great info. I load 155gr XTP on top of 15gr of #9. I don't have a chronometer, so it is great to see real world data. The only difference with my load is that I use CCI 300. I wonder what the difference is?

Thanks again for the data.

*edit* Have you ever loaded up 180 or 200 gr XTP with #9?

Any Cal.
03-05-2012, 00:05
G20 w/ LW 5.2" bbl.

CCI 350 primers, Starline brass, 200g Truncated cone hardcast.

12.5g AA#9, 1163fps.

CCI 350 Primers, Starline brass, 180g FMJ,

13.2g AA #9, 1163fps.

Yeah, they both posted the same velocity, avg. for 4 shots. Was trying these w/ a compensator, but it didn't make any difference in velocity on another load, so I don't know how much it influenced these. Not expecting it did much.

Taterhead
04-29-2012, 13:31
I found some 150 Noslers on sale a few months ago so I snatched some up. I thought I'd work up a soft shooting load using Accurate No. 5. I like to have some light recoiling loads onhand for the occasional shooting companion that doesn't like recoil. I did not at all want to push things with A5 powder.

Firearm: Gen 3 G20 with stock barrel and recoil spring assembly.

All averages were 10 shot strings except the first (5 shots).

All weights hand weighed and verified with check weights.

Temp: 50

Brass: used Starline
Primer: CCI 300
Bullet: Nosler 150 gr JHP
Powder: Accurate No. 5
COL: 1.25"

9.1 Grains
Average velocity: 1105
ME: 407

9.4 Grains
Average velocity: 1173
ME: 458

9.6 Grains
Average velocity: 1214
ME: 491

9.8 Grains
Average velocity: 1220
ME: 495

10.0 Grains
Average velocity: 1263
ME: 531

The point of impact started climbing as charge weights increased. Best groups were at the lowest charge weights. Extreme spreads and groups opened up with increasing charge weights. I am of the conclusion that loading closer to starting loads is best groups.

All functioned without issues.

Taterhead
06-11-2012, 13:35
In years past, I had done workups with my supply of A9 powder purchased a few years ago. It was made in Belgium. Most of you know that Accurate now has powders produced in the USA (I believe this is also true for A5 & A7).

The made in USA powder is a little denser and has a totally different look to it. The Belgium stuff was a dull, dark color of the tiniest little spheres. The USA powder is dark, but shines in the right light. It is also tiny, but is somewhat of a flattened ball. Thankfully it meters as well as the Belgium lots.

I wanted to do a re-test with 200 grain XTPs to see if much had changed. The Belgium lots were noticeably temperature sensitive. Accurate claims that the new formula is better in that regard. This test seems to back that up.

The Belgium powder that was tested at 90F ran WAY faster than comparable loads of the Belgium powder tested at 50F; with temperature being the only significant variable.

All other variables were the same except for the temperatures noted. The new lots tracked very closely to what the Belgium powder lots did when tested at 90 degrees.

Firearm: Gen 3 Glock 20 with stock barrel (4.6") and RSA
Temp: 65F
Elevation: 3200 feet
Brass: Starline
Primer: WLP
COL: 1.26"
Bullet: Hornady 200 gr HP/XTP
Powder: Accurate no. 9 (hand weighed and verified with check weights)
Velocities were 10 shot averages not corrected to the muzzle.

Caution! These loads are less than Hornady max data, but some do exceed Accurate's max load of 12.5 grains. If you choose to reproduce these loads, please reduce to Accurate's starting load of 11.3 grains and work up carefully in 0.2 grain increments. I had done so in previous testing, but did not list the results here.

12.4 grains
Average velocity: 1160 fps

12.6 grains
Average velocity: 1170 fps

12.8 grains
Average velocity: 1185 fps

13.0 grains
Average velocity: 1200 fps

Notes.

Accurate no. 9 always seems to exhibit flattening primers. Yondering hypothesized that it might be due to the fact that some of the tiny kernels make their way down into the flash hole and into the primer cup and increase pressure a bit on the primer. I think there might be some truth to that. There was no perceivable difference in primer condition from beginning load to end.

The 13.0 grain load grouped excellently. 1" at 15 yards for 5 shots is pretty good for me.

No excessive pressure indications of any sort. I like the fact that 1200 fps is attainable with the 200 XTP by using data right out of a reloading manual.

whenmonkeysfly
06-11-2012, 13:48
Thanks Taterhead. A 200 grain XTP bullet traveling at 1200fps is no slouch and is apparently quite accurate.

-Jay

Taterhead
06-11-2012, 22:38
155 gr XTPs with Accurate No. 9

Ran some new loads over the chrony today. Respectable results. No issues.

Firearm: G20 with stock spring and barrel
Temp: 85 low humidity
Five shot average except for last three strings were 10 shots each. Velocities were not corrected to the muzzle.

Bullet: Hornady 155 gr XTP
Case: Starline
Primer: CCI 350
Powder: Accurate #9
COL 1.25"

14.3 gr
Average velocity: 1293
ME: 575

14.6 gr
Average velocity: 1309
ME:590

14.9 gr
Average velocity: 1332
ME: 610

15.2 gr
No data - chrony errors

15.5 gr
Average velocity: 1370
ME: 646

15.8 gr
Average velocity: 1401
ME: 675

16.0 gr
Average velocity: 1415
ME: 689

Notes: Accurate's max is 15.9 gr with a standard primer @ 32,700 PSI. I elected to go with a mag primer to ensure a good burn with that much powder. With the mag primers, I suspect that the pressures were a bit higher. They were getting warm (as noted by case expansion) by 15.8 gr. I suspect that bumping another 3-5 tenths would not be an issue, but case volume is about maxed at 16.0 gr.

The starting load was 50 fps faster than what Accurate was reporting from a 5# barrel. The top velocity was very close to book. I may try these with standard primers to see how they run. As is typical with A9, very clean burn. Little powder residue. These have a pretty pronounced recoil at 15.5 gr + and quite a bark. No issues with groups @ 15 yards.

Retest. All variables the same as above except 1) primer swap to CCI 300, and 2) abmient temperature.

I originally did workups with a CCI Mag primer. I wanted to do a re-test with standard primers. The velocities are slower, as expected. I attribute some of that to the fact that is was 20F lower for the second test. The Accurate no. 9 powder was from an older lot produced in Belgium that was noticeably temperature sensitive. The first two strings were 5 shot averages. The rest were 10 shot averages.

14.9 gr
Average velocity: 1257
ME: 543

15.2 gr
Average velocity: 1257 (chrony errors so limited sample)
ME: 543

15.5 gr
Average velocity: 1339
ME: 617

15.8 gr
Average velocity: 1366
ME: 642

16.0 gr
Average velocity: 1373
ME: 648

I bet that the mag primer was worth about 25 fps, and temperatures were attributable for the difference.

The brass looked far less "worked" with the standard primer. It would probably be about impossible to stuff enough powder in there to get excessive pressures.

Note: The more recent lots of A9 (made in USA) are denser, so potentially could add another several tenths. I bet 16.5 grains could get in there. Accurate reports that pressures at 15.9 grains is 32,700 fps.

Crap. Now there is another thing on the to-do list... I just happen to have some 155 XTPs onhand so might not be too long.

Yondering
06-13-2012, 21:20
The 13.0 grain load grouped excellently. 1" at 15 yards for 5 shots is pretty good for me.

No excessive pressure indications of any sort. I like the fact that 1200 fps is attainable with the 200 XTP by using data right out of a reloading manual.

Good stuff. Here's an interesting observation I made recently, see if you have the same results: Within the 180-220gr range of bullet weights, Accurate #9 seems to give me close to the same velocity, for a given powder charge. For example, I'm loading my 220gr cast bullet over 13.0gr #9, for 1300 fps. The same load, but substituting a 180gr TC cast (Lee 175 TC mold), shot only slightly faster, at 1320 fps. I haven't found this to be true with other powders, but will be paying more attention now.

Edit: for anyone wondering, these velocities are from a 6.6" barrel in a G20 solid top long slide with a muzzle brake. The 220gr load is "full power", but the 180gr feels relatively mild.

Taterhead
06-14-2012, 23:08
Good stuff. Here's an interesting observation I made recently, see if you have the same results: Within the 180-220gr range of bullet weights, Accurate #9 seems to give me close to the same velocity, for a given powder charge. For example, I'm loading my 220gr cast bullet over 13.0gr #9, for 1300 fps. The same load, but substituting a 180gr TC cast (Lee 175 TC mold), shot only slightly faster, at 1320 fps. I haven't found this to be true with other powders, but will be paying more attention now.

Edit: for anyone wondering, these velocities are from a 6.6" barrel in a G20 solid top long slide with a muzzle brake. The 220gr load is "full power", but the 180gr feels relatively mild.

Yes, I have observed the same thing, except maybe a bit more extreme. 180 XTPs actually are generally a few fps slower than 200 XTPs for a comparable charge - as much as 50 fps at the high end. I attribute that to the long bearing surface and high bullet pull of the 200 grainer allowing the slow-buring A9 to build up a head of steam. For whatever reason, 180 XTPs just don't run that fast in my G20, no matter the powder (800-X, Longshot, Blue Dot, A7, A9, etc.). A9 is tops at about 1230 fps with more room to go. That is followed closely by Blue Dot.

_The_Shadow
06-15-2012, 09:47
I saw sort of the same thing using the very long Barnes 100% copper 140 grain bullets in my testing. These were the same length as the 200gr XTP's

TAC-XP FB 140 grain pn# 40005 10mm/40S&W0.400”
12.6 grains of AA#9 (had to adjust, powder shovingthe bullet back out 1.270")(Totally compressed @ 12.6 gr.) @ 1181 fps,Primer was totally flattened to the edges. This was about the same results with Hornady's give or take a few fps.

nickE10mm
06-15-2012, 09:50
delete

Andrew Wiggin
09-26-2012, 11:35
180 gr XTP, AA#7, COL 2.255"
Pistol was 4.5" barreled EAA Witness.
No significant pressure signs were noted.


11.0
____

1162
1223
1265
1195

avg: 1211

11.2
____

1203
1198
1134
1197

avg: 1183

11.4
____

1190
1205
1228
1222
1212

avg: 1211

11.6
____

1232
1213
1212
1226
1241

avg: 1225

11.8
____

1231
1260
1252
1254
1255
1245

avg: 1250

12.0
____

1259
1270
1282
1271
1266
1284

avg: 1272


I want to point out that this exceeds the loads recommended by Accurate but is within the bounds of Hornady's 7th edition. According to their data, Accurate did not test this combination at the full 37.5K psi, whereas a Hornady tech advised me that they do go up to the full SAAMI spec pressure.

It seems to me that this powder is a lot "happier" at or near max. 11.0 and 11.4 yielded the same avg velocity and all the lower powder charges had some pretty wide spreads in velocity. The three heavier charges were much more consistent and showed a much flatter progression in velocity. I'm tempted to go faster but according to the Hornady tech I ought to be at or near the full 37.5K psi.

whenmonkeysfly
09-26-2012, 12:37
Thanks for the data and research with Hornady Andrew.

atyszka
11-11-2012, 12:52
Hi guys, my first contribution to this forum. I didn't see much data for 165 GDHP so I thought I'd share my results from some testing this week.

Stock G20
50F, 95% Humidity, 902 ft elevation
165 gr Gold Dot Hollow point
AA #9
Starline brass
1.255 OAL
CCI 350

15.0 = 1268 fps avg
1242, 1297, 1266, 1274, 1261

15.2 = 1286 fps avg
1308, 1267, 1291, 1280, 1287

15.4 = 1310 fps avg
1307, 1309, 1318, 1307

15.6 = 1311 fps avg
1322, 1319, 1308, 1297

All of these were extremely accurate and I didn't see any signs of over pressure in any of the brass, which was brand new. I decided to load up 200 of the 15.6 grs as my SD load for now.

atyszka
11-11-2012, 13:01
2nd load that I played with this weekend. I wasn't overly impressed with the velocity, but the accuracy was excellent. At the 17.5 gr, there didn't look like there was any room left in the case so that's where I stopped, which was also the max load listed in the AA book I have. No pressure signs on the brass and the primers look like they always do, slightly flattened, which seems to be consistent for me with AA #9 regardless of the charge. The AA book says the 17.5 gr load is only 29,000 (going from memory here) so the primer flattening can only be a result of the powder getting into the primer pocket as some smarter folks than I have theorized.

Stock G20
50F, 95% Humidity, 902 ft elevation
135 gr Nosler HP
AA #9
Starline brass, new
1.255 OAL
CCI 350

16.5 gr = 1314 fps avg
1295, 1332, 1315, 1316, 1312

16.8 gr = 1325 fps avg
1341, 1323, 1321, 1306, 1336

17.2 gr = 1335 fps avg
1354, 1328, 1330, 1320, 1347

17.5 gr = 1373 fps avg
1329, 1410, 1379, 1359, 1389

attrapereves
12-04-2012, 23:19
In regards to your 165gr data... My carry load is 15.2gr of AA#9 with a 165gr Gold Dot. I usually see about 1320fps out of the load with an OAL of 1.250". I wonder if .005" would make that much of a difference in velocity? Maybe the colder temp could affect things too?

About the 135gr data... Since the 135gr bullets are pretty light, I've determined that AA#7 or even AA#5 will make a better powder for it. I'm still working on a 1500-1600fps load :-)

atyszka
12-05-2012, 10:01
I always seem to get slightly slower velocities than many others, could be my barrel, my chrony, or the weather. ~30 fps isn't insignificant, maybe I'll try shortening the OAL and see if that makes up for the difference.

And I hear ya (and others) on the 135gr with #9. It's just too slow for that light bullet. I have an older Accurate reloading guide (15 or so years) and it has #9 listed for the 135 Nosler, the new one does not. I started another thread looking for suggestions on the low velocity and tried some #7 and 800X, both with decent results, though no where near the velocities you're working on.

attrapereves
12-05-2012, 11:08
I always seem to get slightly slower velocities than many others, could be my barrel, my chrony, or the weather. ~30 fps isn't insignificant, maybe I'll try shortening the OAL and see if that makes up for the difference.

And I hear ya (and others) on the 135gr with #9. It's just too slow for that light bullet. I have an older Accurate reloading guide (15 or so years) and it has #9 listed for the 135 Nosler, the new one does not. I started another thread looking for suggestions on the low velocity and tried some #7 and 800X, both with decent results, though no where near the velocities you're working on.

I really wonder what powder Underwood is using to get 1600fps out of 135gr pills. I'll be lucky to get 1500fps out of AA#5 or AA#7

nickE10mm
12-05-2012, 11:13
I really wonder what powder Underwood is using to get 1600fps out of 135gr pills. I'll be lucky to get 1500fps out of AA#5 or AA#7

800X and Longshot will both get 1600fps, advantage going to 800X

atyszka
12-05-2012, 11:50
I really wonder what powder Underwood is using to get 1600fps out of 135gr pills. I'll be lucky to get 1500fps out of AA#5 or AA#7
Wonder no more. The_Shadow did a teardown of Underwood 10mm loads, they're all 800X and he weighed all the charges. GREAT info.

http://10mm-firearms.com/factory-10mm-ammo/underwood%27s-lineup-135155165180220/

_The_Shadow
12-05-2012, 12:47
Yep I put them back together and shot them for the velocity info as well. The 135 grain was a supprise;
Powder Description/Positive ID/Type/Charge Weight: IMR800X 11.8 grains
Tested 11/29/2012 Underwood 135 Gr. Nosler JHP 1738 fps : Diameter 0.4325" @ the light "Smile" primer GONE, popped out!, case didn't eject as tested from my S&W1006.

Taterhead
02-23-2014, 23:44
I've posted some data for this bullet/powder combo in this forum, but never posted it here in the Accurate sticky.

I've actually done two separate workups with the WFNGC bullet.

Double Tap and Beartooth both make this bullet. In my opinion the Beartooth is a better bullet. They have more consistent weight, and the casting is of better quality. Either, though, are effective. Mike McNett of DT told me that theirs was an identical copy of the BT (that they used to load in their ammo). There are some subtle differences, but they are quite similar.

The first workups were with the DT bullet. The Accurate powder was from the now-obsolete Belgian made lots. The BT loads were with lots that are now made in the USA.

A quick point about load data:

Basically, there is no load data for this bullet type. There is load data for cast loads, but these bullets are a different animal.

When Speer used to make the 200 gr TMJ available for components, there was data from Speer and Accurate for the 200 gr TMJ and Accurate no. 9. Speer's max was 14.0 gr and Accurate's was 13.5. Speer called for a CCI 350, and Accurate used a CCI 300. These bullets are a fairly low friction design, so that was a loose frame of reference for load workups.

Components:

Brass: new Starline
Primer: CCI 350
COL: 1.26"
Powder: Accurate no. 9
Bullet: Wide Flat Nosed Gas Checked Hardcast (WFNGC) 200 gr. (sized .401")
Gun: Gen 3 Glock 20. Stock barrel and RSA

I captured chrony data for 2 of the relays for the DT loads. Temp 90F:

13.3 grains: ave velocity = 1168 fps
13.8 grains: ave velocity = 1205 fps (this was tested a second time with similar results)

Beartooth loads tested at 42F with the newer A9 lots:

12.7 grains: ave velocity = 1148 fps
13.0 grains: ave velocity = 1174 fps
13.3 grains: ave velocity = 1180 fps
13.6 grains: ave velocity = 1208 fps
13.8 grains: ave velocity = 1232 fps

No symptoms of excessive pressures, and no leading in the G20 barrel. Groups are acceptable. Not great. I consider this bullet to be great for the wilderness where you might need penetration. I don't see this as a long range target bullet.

If you choose to attempt these loads, please reduce to 12.5 fps or lower and workup in 2 tenths of a grain increments. As stated earlier, this load data is not supported by published load data. What works in my gun might not work in yours.

A tech at Accurate told me that the newer lots are lest temp sensitive. This is yet another data point to substantiate that. Note that the temperature of the tests from the older lots was 90F. The later tests were in the 40s yet had faster velocities. I observed notable temp sensitivity with the older lots.

nickE10mm
03-18-2014, 18:04
From everything I've read and seen (admittedly, all were on forums, NOT firsthand).... it seems like AA9 is a great powder, both powerful, accurate and pretty versatile, HOWEVER, it shines MOST BRIGHTLY when using heavy and/or high-drag bullets in long barrels.

Examples.... 180 and 200gr XTP's are both high drag and decently heavy bullets that work very well with AA9 for FULL VELOCITY loads, the nod going to 200gr. The 200gr BTB / WFNGC bullets are a very good match with AA9 but you will start to see REAL GAINS in sheer velocity when you add 1) high-drag (ie, XTP design), 2) heavier bullet (ie, 220-230gr) or 3) longer barrels or even 4) high case neck tension or crimp.... all of these due to the slow burn characteristics of this powder.

Anyone with firsthand knowledge feel free to chime in on my summary.

Can't wait to get into this pound of AA9 and start playing with 6" velocities of hunting bullets....

Taterhead
03-18-2014, 18:56
Good take Nick. Although 1425 fps out of a 4.6" barrel with a 155 using book data is pretty good too. Not sure how to top that and stay "on book." Best results are with new brass that I re-size so that the ID of the case gives a tight fit for the bullet. Lots of neck tension gives good results.

Scanning my load log (spreadsheet), there are numerous mid single-digit SDs on velocities with 180 and 200 grainers. Out of 32 unique workup data points for 180 and 200 gr bullets, half of them have SDs of 10 or less. That translates to outstanding groups. On paper, it is hard to beat a 180 or 200 gr XTP and A9. Blue Dot is right there, but nothing else is.

Now, this is not a crucial for service pistols, but it does speak to your take that this powder does well when you let it build a head of steam. I think that is also why some guys don't get any velocities with A9.


Have fun messing around with your new powder. You have to really work to get enough of it in a case in order to get into trouble. The big downside to A9 is that those big ol' charge weights suck down a pound of powder pretty quickly.

nickE10mm
03-18-2014, 19:09
Good take Nick. Although 1425 fps out of a 4.6" barrel with a 155 using book data is pretty good too. Not sure how to top that and stay "on book." Best results are with new brass that I re-size so that the ID of the case gives a tight fit for the bullet. Lots of neck tension gives good results.

Scanning my load log (spreadsheet), there are numerous mid single-digit SDs on velocities with 180 and 200 grainers. Out of 32 unique workup data points for 180 and 200 gr bullets, half of them have SDs of 10 or less. That translates to outstanding groups. On paper, it is hard to beat a 180 or 200 gr XTP and A9. Blue Dot is right there, but nothing else is.

Now, this is not a crucial for service pistols, but it does speak to your take that this powder does well when you let it build a head of steam. I think that is also why some guys don't get any velocities with A9.


Have fun messing around with your new powder. You have to really work to get enough of it in a case in order to get into trouble. The big downside to A9 is that those big ol' charge weights suck down a pound of powder pretty quickly.


As usual, nail on the head, Tater.

I'm okay with using almost double the powder IF I can get a 200gr XTP over 1250 with a book load and IF it groups extremely well. For hunting and full power loads I usually use new or almost new cases so neck tension won't be an issue.

Can't wait to start playing. :)

_The_Shadow
03-18-2014, 19:59
Yep, I agree it takes a little attention to the details (case fit/bullet fit) with them working at the upper edge to get the most bang for given bullets. At the top of this page, I was stuffing as much as I could get inside using the Barnes 140 TAC-XP, to the point where it stopped pushing the bullet back out...

I still have some of my older AA#7 (early 90's) and some of the AA#9 that has the micro-spheres to use up on some projects. But for now they are there for testing and learning as needed....

nickE10mm
04-11-2014, 12:40
In years past, I had done workups with my supply of A9 powder purchased a few years ago. It was made in Belgium. Most of you know that Accurate now has powders produced in the USA (I believe this is also true for A5 & A7).

The made in USA powder is a little denser and has a totally different look to it. The Belgium stuff was a dull, dark color of the tiniest little spheres. The USA powder is dark, but shines in the right light. It is also tiny, but is somewhat of a flattened ball. Thankfully it meters as well as the Belgium lots.

I wanted to do a re-test with 200 grain XTPs to see if much had changed. The Belgium lots were noticeably temperature sensitive. Accurate claims that the new formula is better in that regard. This test seems to back that up.

The Belgium powder that was tested at 90F ran WAY faster than comparable loads of the Belgium powder tested at 50F; with temperature being the only significant variable.

All other variables were the same except for the temperatures noted. The new lots tracked very closely to what the Belgium powder lots did when tested at 90 degrees.

Firearm: Gen 3 Glock 20 with stock barrel (4.6") and RSA
Temp: 65F
Elevation: 3200 feet
Brass: Starline
Primer: WLP
COL: 1.26"
Bullet: Hornady 200 gr HP/XTP
Powder: Accurate no. 9 (hand weighed and verified with check weights)
Velocities were 10 shot averages not corrected to the muzzle.

Caution! These loads are less than Hornady max data, but some do exceed Accurate's max load of 12.5 grains. If you choose to reproduce these loads, please reduce to Accurate's starting load of 11.3 grains and work up carefully in 0.2 grain increments. I had done so in previous testing, but did not list the results here.

12.4 grains
Average velocity: 1160 fps

12.6 grains
Average velocity: 1170 fps

12.8 grains
Average velocity: 1185 fps

13.0 grains
Average velocity: 1200 fps

Notes.

Accurate no. 9 always seems to exhibit flattening primers. Yondering hypothesized that it might be due to the fact that some of the tiny kernels make their way down into the flash hole and into the primer cup and increase pressure a bit on the primer. I think there might be some truth to that. There was no perceivable difference in primer condition from beginning load to end.

The 13.0 grain load grouped excellently. 1" at 15 yards for 5 shots is pretty good for me.

No excessive pressure indications of any sort. I like the fact that 1200 fps is attainable with the 200 XTP by using data right out of a reloading manual.


This is encouraging to me, as the results from G20er (post #30 here I believe) indicated that he only got 1120-1160fps from the same 13g charge and only to 1200fps going up to 14.3gr.

If I can get 1200fps with 13g I'll be happy as a clam.

nickE10mm
05-21-2014, 14:58
I've got my first ever AA9 loads loaded up to test tomorrow and, while I have no way to chrony them yet, I'll test for accuracy and pressure signs, if any. I have some Rainier 180gr PHPs loaded up over 13.5gr AA9 / CCI300.

We shall see!

nickE10mm
05-27-2014, 15:34
Hey Taterhead....

Do you happen to know when, approximately, Accurate switched their AA9 from the "old" to the "new" (small balls over to flattened balls) or - when they switched their data due to he newer powder being a bit faster and less temp sensitive?

Thanks in advance ....

ctious
06-15-2014, 12:34
I am finally going to test #9 with the 200gr cast mihec mold in my carbine. Been wanting to do this since last fall. So I am working from 13 gr to 15 gr( full case oal of 1.256). will shoot them later today or tomorrow.

If I remember I was only able to get it to just under 1700 with 800x. Hoping with the way this burns I can get over 1800. If I can it would be an amazing deer load.

nickE10mm
06-15-2014, 14:16
I am finally going to test #9 with the 200gr cast mihec mold in my carbine. Been wanting to do this since last fall. So I am working from 13 gr to 15 gr( full case oal of 1.256). will shoot them later today or tomorrow.

If I remember I was only able to get it to just under 1700 with 800x. Hoping with the way this burns I can get over 1800. If I can it would be an amazing deer load.

Looking forward to seeing the results!

ctious
06-16-2014, 17:04
Well that was a bust. Best that 15 gr did was 1658. And light smile. 800x still seems to be the best option for nuclear power in the 10mm.

To add, 14 to 15gr only added about 30 fps. It's like the powder topped off.

nickE10mm
07-13-2014, 14:38
Got out to chrono some loads today and got some impressive numbers, especially with my 6" Fusion.

I shot a ladder out of my G20SF (stock 4.6" bbl, Wolff 22lb RSA)
I also shot one round of the the max AA9 load from my Fusion 6" 1911 Hunter.

200gr XTP over Accurate #9 (the newest version of the powder, flattened ball)
CCI300 primers
new Starline brass
92 deg, sweltering

Here are the numbers....
Data format is as follows: LO-HI-AVG-ES-SD
I'll be measuring the cases later but no smiles and no obvious signs of pressure other than some normal swelling from the G20 loads.

12.4gr
1147-1183-1161-36.4-15.9

12.6gr
(error, accidentally shot these on the prior string, corrupting the data ... I did see small velocity increase as expected, FWIW)

12.8gr
1169-1197-1185-28.2-11.9

13.0gr
1187-1211-1201-23.7-11.5

13.2gr
1215-1220-1217-4.2-3.6


The following string was from my 6" Fusion 1911 Hunter

13.2gr
1360-1382-1371-21.9-15.5 <--- HOLY SCHNEIKIES!!!

I'm a little skeptical of this particular string. I WAS a good 12-14ft back from the chrono so I believe this to be good data... but I will be revisiting this one. I would EXPECT about 1260-1290fps going from the 4.6" to 6" so this is a little surprising Very high numbers from the 6" fully supported Fusion barrel. Absolutely no case swell and the load felt really good... less recoil that I remember my nuclear Longshot loads in the same pistol that didn't get this level of velocity. I'm guessing that the combination of heavy bullet, slow powder and new cases allowed this load to really build up some steam.

I will be loading lots more of the 13.0 and 13.2gr AA9 / 200gr XTP's for further accuracy testing with both the G20SF and the Fusion for deer season this fall. Smasher of a load and, from what I've seen with OTHER Accurate loads through this Glock, will probably be EXTREMELY ACCURATE with low relative pressure.

I also fired a quick string of 13.5gr AA9 over a Rainier HP from the G20SF. Here are the numbers.

13.5gr
1129-1236-1188-106.9-45.5

This load seems a bit slow since I thought it would be making 1200+ on every shot. I'll probably shoot a few more of these to double check for consistency. SUPER accurate load though, as I shot quite a few 1" groups with the G20SF/FF3 at the range on my last trip.

I also have quite a few more loads to test using both WSF and 800X (IMR) but that will have to come later. It was too hot today and those results will obviously be in their proper respective threads here on GT 10mm loading forum.

Here are a few pics of where I was shooting today....
http://s1253.photobucket.com/user/nickE10mm/library/PAPAs%20land%20-%20chrono%20tests%20-%20July%202014

Have a good one, guys!

Taterhead
08-08-2014, 17:33
Nice report Nick. You finally put that bottle of A9 to good use.

My velocities are shockingly close to yours: within 5 fps on each ladder (EDIT: with the G20) ! Differences are that I use a WLP, and the stock RSA.

I like that you can get 1200 fps with a 200 grainer, while sticking to Hornady book data!! All that with a 4.6" barrel. That is one of the top 3 most precise loads through the big 20.

Yep, I agree that more testing through the Fusion is on order. Sounds a touch quick, all things considered. Please report back, since I'm very curious.

One interesting phenomenon that I found with 180 XTPs is that the velocities at given charge weights are almost identical to those with 200s. Yondering had a similar observation. The 180s wake up past 14.0 grains.

WeeWilly
08-08-2014, 21:39
I agree, nice report Nick.

Your Fusion numbers might be accurate. I have had as much as 150fps between my stock G20 barrel and a 6" KKM, using Blue Dot and 180gr jacketed. I thought I had similar results when I ran some #9 through those same barrels, but I couldn't find any record I had done it. IME that extra 1.4" makes a pretty big difference with the slower powders.

_The_Shadow
08-09-2014, 08:03
Thanks Nick, great report! I know about the sweltering down here...
Although I still have some of the older "microbead" AA#9, I picked up a pound of the newer AA#9 in a recent transaction. That will allow me some comparisons of both.

Yes, much like the 9x25Dillon the longer barrel does seem to wake up velocities a bit. :)

happie2shoot
08-09-2014, 10:33
Thanks Nick, great report! I know about the sweltering down here...
Although I still have some of the older "microbead" AA#9, I picked up a pound of the newer AA#9 in a recent transaction. That will allow me some comparisons of both.

Yes, much like the 9x25Dillon the longer barrel does seem to wake up velocities a bit. :)

I found some newer aa9 that I forgot I had, yard sale about
8 years ago, and an old can from about 1988 that I will have to try.

Did you ever load the hot Parabellum Research 200gr FMJ at
the top of this page?

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Ak5OC6bPsjO8dEh6eGZ3N3hpUU13SXM5cm9pZy16T0E#gid=7

_The_Shadow
08-09-2014, 11:57
When I tested that load from my S&W 1006...Tested 11/29/2012 PBR-Parabellum Research 200 Gr. FMJ Velocity: 1140 fps, case expansion measurement’s: Diameter 0.4270” primer slightly flat. I never really get as high a number from my CHRONY as Intercooler gets...they should be near 1240 to 1250 according to all the info...

nickE10mm
08-21-2014, 16:36
Thanks Nick, great report! I know about the sweltering down here...
Although I still have some of the older "microbead" AA#9, I picked up a pound of the newer AA#9 in a recent transaction. That will allow me some comparisons of both.

Yes, much like the 9x25Dillon the longer barrel does seem to wake up velocities a bit. :)

Nice!

By the way, I just now finally got around to measuring the case swell on that AA9 ladder I did a couple posts back.

Going from 12.6 to 13.2gr AA9 in my STOCK G20SF barrel, not a single case was over .4335" and most were right at .4330". My barrel's observed max is .4350" or so.

Not bad for a 1200+ fps XTP load from a stock barrel!

_The_Shadow
08-21-2014, 17:01
Thanks Nick, Both my Glock 20SF and Glock 29 factory barrels, hold at 0.4340" Maximum, anything larger is starting to flow into the feed ramp, although the case support has been good.

One of the flattest primers I ever had was with AA#9 during the Barnes 140 TAC-XP test, someone mentioned that possibly the microbead formulation was getting inside the primer pocket...
12.6 grains of AA#9 (had to adjust powder shoving the bullet back out 1.270")(Totally compressed @ 12.6 gr.) @ 1181 fps, Primer was totally flattened to the edges. It penetrated 5" of sandy dirt and the bullet failed to open, partially folded in on itself. Case expanded to 0.4280”

OH BTW, that newer pound of AA#9 is also microbead and not the flattened ball others have been seeing.

nickE10mm
08-21-2014, 17:13
Thanks Nick, Both my Glock 20SF and Glock 29 factory barrels, hold at 0.4340" Maximum, anything larger is starting to flow into the feed ramp, although the case support has been good.

One of the flattest primers I ever had was with AA#9 during the Barnes 140 TAC-XP test, someone mentioned that possibly the microbead formulation was getting inside the primer pocket...


OH BTW, that newer pound of AA#9 is also microbead and not the flattened ball others have been seeing.

Very interesting!

I always had extremely flattened primers when I used AA7 with any medium to hot load but I didn't notice much flattening at all with this round of hot AA9 loads in either my Fusion fully supported barrel OR my stock G20 barrel.

Another interesting point is that this particular G20SF barrel (my most recent G20) seems quite a bit looser than my last G29SF barrel, yet I've been able to run what seems to be a bit hotter loads through it before seeing pressure signs. Just goes to show, each firearm has its unique "personality".

As for the recently acquired batch of microbead AA9... you said it was "new".... what is the year of manufacture for that lot? I figured that microbead is out of production by now. Did you get a "new" bottle of the "old" formula or did you just mean that the bottle is "new to you"? (if that makes sense... lol)

I'm going to buy several pounds of the new formula of AA9 as soon as I find some and have some free cash. The stuff is nice... and ACCURATE! :)

_The_Shadow
08-21-2014, 18:35
The New AA#9, was new to me and sealed, as purchased from a local guy that was moving. I just went and took another look at it and it is the newer formulation. The quick look at what was stuck to the foam seal just appeared to be the microbeads. But when I dumped some in the scale pan it was the newer flatten ball formulation...Yea! :)

Those Barnes 140 gr TAC-XP bullet are very long, same length as the 200 gr. Hornady XTP, the load was compressed for that testing.

Taterhead
08-21-2014, 22:09
Nick, I completely agree with liking 1200 + fps from a stock gun while staying "on book."

The micro-spheres were likely the Belgian-made stuff. The USA lots have the micro flattened spherical shape. I have used a bunch of both. I think the USA lots are a bit superior (velocities, temp sensitivity, consistency) except it might be ever-so-slightly dirtier. The shapes were also identical for the Belgian vs. USA lots of A7 too.