Please explain the Bill drill and ELPrez

WHat is the actual course of fire for these two drills? Distance and all that good stuff, also what is a respectable time to work towards for both?

[shootingbuff]

If mem serves both are setup org at 10 yds.

The Bill Drill org has the shooter facing the target and on the start signal the shooter draws and puts 6 shots into a single target. Greatly helps when only six is loaded ;a

El Prez has 3 targets and on the start signal the shooter draws puts 2 in each reloads and puts two more in each.
IIRC

sb

[ysr_racer]

I "think" the El Prez is 3 targets, 10 yards away from you, 1 yard apart from each other.

You start facing away from the targets. On the buzzer, you turn, draw and fire 2 rounds into each target, reload and do the same.

I saw Todd Jarret do it in under 5 seconds.

[Mayonaise]

Bill Drill is 7 yards. From the holster, six rounds limited vickers from a capacity magazine. Makes you think. Sub 3 second runs are the target.

IDPA El Prez. 10 yards, 3 targets (6',4',5') one yard apart. From concealment, facing up range.

The true El Prez is 10 yards, three target array spaced 3 yards apart. Concealment garment starting facing UP range. Winning times are in the 8 second range, clean for master class shooters.

[Navy joe]

http://www.uspsa.org/classifiers/cm99-11.gif


Really, really good is in the 5 second range in USPSA. My last time shooting this with a production gun(G34) was 7.41 and 50 of 60 points. USPSA also shoots this as a limited (Virginia) count stage. Hard.

As for the IDPA one, two things make it slower, the concealment and the varied target height. I like it, but as for "real", note the course designer on the USPSA version :D

[Ankeny]

I suppose you would need to define "respectable". A master class time on a Bill Drill is 2 seconds or less with all A zone hits. I run at two seconds with a 1911 out of Kydex.

A Master class score on CM99-11 with a 1911 out of Kydex is tougher to explain unless you understand hit factors. Let's just say if you can get good "torso" hits in 6 seconds you are not going to be embarrased. My best time is under 4 with an Open gun and right at 5.4 with my 1911.

[shootingbuff]

Thanks N.J. I see being in a hurry, I again did not explain well ;e

later,

sb

[Mayonaise]

Originally posted by Navy joe
I like it, but as for "real", note the course designer on the USPSA version :D

The original "pure" El Presidente designed by Mr Cooper, the target spread is 9' shot from a distance of 10 meters (33').

Both the IPSC and IDPA are cut down versions.

[Jim Watson]

The first I heard of the Bill Drill, it was not scored, it had to be shot clean. Your passing result was the time for 6 "A"/-0 hits. Any shot outside the center was a fail, no matter how quick. Slow down and try again for a clean run. Virginia or Limited Vickers scoring is an adaptation of a drill to a stage.

[mattburkett]

The Bill Drill is at 7 yards and current GM times run about 1.5 seconds. It was thought that if you could shoot it in 2.0 seconds you were a master level shooter in the 1980's. Personal best is a 1.34.

The El-Prez as it is shot today is 3 targets at 10 yards and they are 1 yard apart. Turn then draw and fire two on each, reload and two more on each. Times run in the 4's for GM's. Personal best is a 3.68.

The original El-Prez is at 10 meters (pretty sure it was meters) with 3 meters between targets the times run in the 6 second range. My persona best is a 5.65.

The Vice-Prez starts with you facing the targets at 7 yards, targets 1 yard apart. Shooting is the same as an el-prezGM times run in the 3 second range with the 4 second area being pretty standard.

Hope that helps. :-)

Good luck,
Matt

[mercop]

I have my guys shoot Bill drills on typing paper.

[Ankeny]

Matt:

I recall your conversation with Kevin on your CD about how the times on Bill Drills have been decreasing. In fact, I was hesitant to post the old 2 second standard because I figured you would come along and raise the bar. Still, from what I am seeing locally, a two second Bill Drill cold and on demand, day in and day out, is about what would be expected of low level Masters like me. I guess I just suck at Bill Drills. :)

[mattburkett]

No you don't suck. Stop thinking negatively and break the problem down.
What is your draw time? What are your splits?
.70 draw and 5 .15 splits = 1.45 seconds

What do you need to work on? Your draw your your timing of the gun?

Take care,
Matt

Thank you all for the information. I am setting a goal to shoot in local Tulsa area IDPA events starting in Jan. I just wanted to get this information and see how I shot before I got laughed out of the range. I am planning on shooting a 686 in the IDPA. I currently have a PACT timer in route to my residence. I will put it to use with these drills.

I find it amazing to get feedback by Masters and GM's. Thanks again, no other sport can offer this... To me this is like asking about exhaust on a nascar forum and getting a response from the nations top 10 ranked drivers.

[marvin]

draws i need to work on draws. if i get a .95 with an A hit i call it great but most of the time they run in the 1.05 to 1.10 range. my best bill drill is in the 1.80's el prez 5.2 limited

[Ankeny]

Matt:

The comment about sucking was sarcasm, not negative thinking. In my case the problem is consistency with the sub one second draw. I have been whining about my sloth like draw for a couple of years over on Brian's forum. Whining doesn't seem to help, lol. I also shoot my Bill Drills at 10 yards, not 7 yards so I really don't know how much of a difference the three yards would make. We are probably talking apples and oranges and I should have kept my mouth shut.

I rarely shoot Bill Drills but I have done a few at 10 yards in 2 seconds or less with a revolver and I shot one last Saturday closer to 1.75 with a CZ75 out of a Fobus holster.

[kewag]

How did Jeff Cooper arrive at naming the drill, El Presidente?