Hunting Bear Over Bait in Maine ?? [Archive] - Glock Talk

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RugerFan58
12-06-2003, 09:16
In the past November election Maine voted on the hunting over bait issue. Any chance anyone heard what the results were? I read in "The Maine Sportsmen" that over 60% of Sportsman Alliance of Maine members were in favor of outlawing it. Just curious. Thanks in advance. Greg

revbrown
12-06-2003, 14:43
this from Nov 6 bangor news


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Volunteers with Citizens for Fair Bear Hunting collected tens of thousands signatures on Election Day and expect to have more than enough support to get their referendum to ban bear baiting, trapping and hunting with dogs on next year's ballot.

Before Tuesday, volunteers had collected about 10,000 signatures. Then 500 people collected more than 40,000 signatures at polling places statewide yesterday....
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guess it's not a done deal yet


:cool:

RugerFan58
12-06-2003, 15:02
Thanks for the info. I've got a house in So. Maine and we only go up there every other weekend so I never saw the results. Somehow I got it wrong and thought they were voting on it. Thanks again !!

redwinger
12-08-2003, 08:50
im not a fan of bear hunting period.with dogs ,over bait.jesssssssss im sure they package your meat for you too.Boy now thats a real sports man!

ILikeFtLbs
12-08-2003, 09:21
You're entitled to your opinion, but I don't think it is a fair one. Personally I enjoy spot and stalking for bears and I have never tried the other two methods, but not because I think their wrong.

Treeing a bear with dogs is not as easy as one would think. Bears, unlike Cougars, don't run up the first available tree. They run FOREVER. Many take up to 12 hours to run up a tree if they do at all. A lot of effort goes into training the dogs, and that's why most hunters do it. They enjoy the challenge of training a good dog. In fact, many times hunters chase the bear just for the chase and don't kill it when it gets in the tree.

Hunting with bait also brings its sportsmanlike qualities. One has to bring the bears right in one them. This gives the hunter the opportunity for a perfect shot and allows them to size up the bear properly so that only mature bears without cubs are killed. It makes the hunting 100% fair in my opinion. A friend of mine was hunting over bait in alberta when the bear saw him and tried to climb into his stand to fgure out what he was. He got the whole thing on video tape as he was kicking the paws of the bear till she left.

RugerFan58
12-08-2003, 10:41
I'm not into hunting over bait or with dogs either. Two of my old bosses hunted with dogs. My last boss got a call at work to come to a certain location ASAP. He was handed a .454 Casell which he'd never seen much less shot and walked out to a tree a half a mile into the woods.There he shot the treed cub,handed the pistol back and was told his meat would be ready in 4 to 5 days. The only reason he sweat thru the whole ordeal was he's sooo far out of shape.Did'nt sound like he worked to hard to harvest that bear to me. Hunting over bait is widely used by outfitters in Maine where I was born and still own property. Although I do know a purist who baits without using an outfitter he is the exception by far.Most of the baiting in Maine is done by outfitters for their well to do clients. I've seen these clients out in the woods"Roughing it up" in their 30 something foot RV's. The outfitter's wives do all the cooking and the guides do the butchering and packaging of the meat. Because of shrinking habitat some of these bears unfortunatly must be culled. If hunting over bait or with dogs is outlawed I can only see one thing happening. Bear tags will be issued on deer tags like the State of New Hampshire did for years. You pay a little more when you buy your licence but you're all set for the whole season.You'd be surprised how many bear I've seen scouting for or hunting deer.Anyone who hunts bear in NH can tell you what happened there. Most of the prime bear hunting areas are posted against bear dogs and baiting. Most people know hunting is nessesary but they don't want what they perceive as a unfair advantage giving to the wealthy few. IMHO I think I know whats going to happen when this issue comes up for a vote in Maine. You probably know too.

ILikeFtLbs
12-08-2003, 12:52
I agree with you completely. The point I would make though is that hunting that bear with dogs isn't unethical. The unethical part is that soemone who didn't even participate in the hunt shot the bear, and that it was only a cub. Most states have age limits on the bears you can shoot. For example, West Virginia was 2 years or older the last time I checked. Even with no size limit, responsible hunters who love being able to hunt the animals they hunt will only kill animals that are mature. Also in West Viriginia, one cannot guide a hunter for money or charity. In other words, it is only legal to hunt over your own dogs or with none at all for bears.

RugerFan58
12-08-2003, 15:55
The people that I know that hunt with dogs all say the same thing, The dogs do ALL the work. Rarely does the hunter participate until the animal is treed. I think if you ask around you'll find out that is standard practice ESP. when there's a guide involved. Unless it's changed Maine,NH,and Vt. have no age or size limits on taking a bear. I'm not a bear hunter so alot of my info on the laws is years old. As far as size is concerned alot of hunters that pay thousands of $$$ to a guide will take a smaller sized bear if their hunt or the season is about to expire.They want to fill the tag they paid so much for. Better a little meat than to get skunked. If most states were as smart as West Virginia alot of people would'nt have a bad taste in their mouth over the subject. ILikeFtLbs you said hunting with dogs isn't unethical. When you walk up to a treed animal and blast away is that "Fair Chase" when the dogs did ALL the work?? Most hunters in the Northeast would disagree with you if you answered yes. We don't have to agree. I'm not a bear hunter and never will be. I realize just because someone else is different doesn't make them wrong. I do have alot of friends who hunt. Just telling you what I've heard on the subject. Happy Hunting !!

jchast
12-18-2003, 12:59
I am an avid small game, turkey and deer hunter. I don't hunt bear. I never tried it... I really don't think there is enough around here (western pa) to justify it. I'd like to try it someday but I feel that hunting with bait isn't hunting... it's baiting... wheres the sport? Hunting with dogs? Fine for small game hunting, but treeing a bear then shooting it? What is that? :( Sounds inhumane and cruel to the bear scaring the crap out of it with dogs then shooting it while it's clinging on for its life in a tree. :( :( :(

I don't think you should be able to bait hunt or hunt big game with dogs anywhere. That to me isn't sportsmanship.

Is bear meat edible? I heard it wasn't. ;d

RugerFan58
12-18-2003, 16:10
I've never had it but I hear bear meat is tough and stringy. I would like to try it someday. Alot of hunters in Maine want to outlaw bear hunting with dogs and over bait. Guess we'll see soon how everyone votes on this one.

6forsure
12-23-2003, 15:27
Even from the stalk, you are still killing a animal for the fun of it.

Personally I have no problem at all with dogs. Bait and stand hunting doesn't seem too sporting to me, but if there is no population degradation, then I don't give a flying flip. I don't need a high horse to sit on to make me feel important, better than someone else, or less guilty for killing a defenseless animal. Some of ya'll sound more like PETA freaks than hunters.:(

TJC
12-23-2003, 16:28
WOW, I didn't realize I was a wealthy client of an outfitter. I've done bait hunting for bear in Maine and it's not as easy as one might think. Any one of a number of things can go wrong that may cause you to not even see a bear let alone tag one.
Bait hunting has grown in a number of areas, even for deer. While there may be some limits on the time period in relation to the season start, there are still a lot of areas that allow hunting. Ever watch OLN and see all those monster bucks they are shooting? Most are over a food plot planted especially for the stand area or right at a feeder location. What's the difference? A lot of hunters would kill to do some of those hunts, yet they are bait hunts.

RugerFan58
12-23-2003, 17:43
Like I said before I don't hunt bear. Not to say I would'nt shoot one if I was in my deer stand,esp if it was a large male. On a regular basis I pistol shoot with 2 Registered Maine Guides. They've met more fellow guides and clients in the past two years than I'll meet in a lifetime. If you read my past post is says "most" baiting,not all baiting. I know not all hunters need to be led by the hand to the tree stand. Yes alot of hunters would love to hunt over bait. Shows how we are turning into lazy Americans. By the way 6 forsure PETA stands for People Eating Tasty Animals.

ILikeFtLbs
12-23-2003, 19:12
About black bears,

To answer the question of bear meat being edible: Yes. Whether or not it tastes good depends on a number of things though. For example, spring bears have leaner meat that tastes (to me) exactly like cow meat. In fact, most bears are eating like cows in the spring because they are still constipated from hibernation. They eat dandilions and grass and even can be seen in fields with cows. Once fall has come around, the bears are feeding on small deer and calves, fish, and whatever other meat they can find along with occasional flowers and acorns etc. This meat oriented diet makes their meat fatty, tough, and stringy. Also, bears that hang out in swamps tend to eat food that makes their meat taste very foul and greasy. Imagine a junkyard bear!!!!!!!!

Anyway, I still say "don't knock it 'till you've tried it." I support baiting bears and the use of dogs. The whole idea of hunting is to find the most effective way of getting within range of the animal. Bears aren't able to be patterned like dear because they are roaming animals. Some terrain...like West Virginia, can't be hunted spot and stalk. You have to use dogs, or give up. Also, as I've said, bears are still the hardest animals to tree. They'll run a good 12 hours and then some more if they feel like it. Most dogs give up before the bear climbs.

Anyway, good luck in whatever method you use.

vaulter
12-27-2003, 20:01
Originally posted by jchast
Hunting with dogs? Fine for small game hunting, but treeing a bear then shooting it? What is that? :( Sounds inhumane and cruel to the bear scaring the crap out of it with dogs then shooting it while it's clinging on for its life in a tree. :( :( :(

.


Why is hunting okay for small game but not bears? Wouldn't it make pheasant and grouse hunting be much more SPORTING if your dog wasn't doing all the work pointing and holding the bird until you get within range? Sounds inhumane and cruel to have your dog terrify it into freezing until you are so close that it finally is so overcome with fear that it flushes flying for its life then you shoot it. :( :( :(

I don't think you should be able to bait hunt or hunt big game with dogs anywhere. That to me isn't sportsmanship
Well good for you. I don't think you should be allowed to hunt small game and birds with dogs. I hunt grouse without dogs and I think that you hunting birds/small game with dogs is unsportsmanlike.

See how stupid it sounds turning your own ideas back on you about a kind of hunting that you may enjoy? If its legal in your state to hunt with dogs, to hunt over bait, etc ..hey more power to ya have fun hunting. Who am I to tell you how you should hunt.

jchast
12-29-2003, 09:37
Originally posted by 6forsure
Some of ya'll sound more like PETA freaks than hunters.:(

I'm all for PETA... People Eating Tasty Animals

yum

jchast
12-29-2003, 09:38
Originally posted by vaulter
Why is hunting okay for small game but not bears? Wouldn't it make pheasant and grouse hunting be much more SPORTING if your dog wasn't doing all the work pointing and holding the bird until you get within range? Sounds inhumane and cruel to have your dog terrify it into freezing until you are so close that it finally is so overcome with fear that it flushes flying for its life then you shoot it. :( :( :(

Well good for you. I don't think you should be allowed to hunt small game and birds with dogs. I hunt grouse without dogs and I think that you hunting birds/small game with dogs is unsportsmanlike.

See how stupid it sounds turning your own ideas back on you about a kind of hunting that you may enjoy? If its legal in your state to hunt with dogs, to hunt over bait, etc ..hey more power to ya have fun hunting. Who am I to tell you how you should hunt.

Boy or boy I must have hit a nerve with you... See, I like people that get mad like you did. Show you have low self esteem adn can't come back with an intelligent response other than a bunch of frowns and some bashing ;f

vaulter
12-29-2003, 11:33
Originally posted by jchast
Boy or boy I must have hit a nerve with you... See, I like people that get mad like you did. Show you have low self esteem adn can't come back with an intelligent response other than a bunch of frowns and some bashing ;f
jchast
I think you missed my point :) I re-wrote your own post just inserting bird hunting with dogs for bear hunting with bait/dogs I even used the exact same number of frowns as used in the original post and in the same place even.
The only point I was trying to make is its very easy to say that a kind of hunting that you don't participate in/enjoy should be out-lawed and maybe if the same thinking was used to suggest a ban on a type of hunting you may enjoy you would see why someone may be bothered by it.
As for the low self-esteem I don't know where you are coming from. Apparently if you enjoy hunting other than birds and small game you have low self-esteem??? I wish I knew that and here I thought I was leaning more towards being an ego-maniac? I learn something new every day.
Just give other hunters the benefit of the doubt if they are following game laws then hey have fun hunting even if it's a type of hunting you don't understand/enjoy/participate in.

jchast
12-30-2003, 09:24
Originally posted by vaulter
jchast
I think you missed my point :) I re-wrote your own post just inserting bird hunting with dogs for bear hunting with bait/dogs I even used the exact same number of frowns as used in the original post and in the same place even.
The only point I was trying to make is its very easy to say that a kind of hunting that you don't participate in/enjoy should be out-lawed and maybe if the same thinking was used to suggest a ban on a type of hunting you may enjoy you would see why someone may be bothered by it.
As for the low self-esteem I don't know where you are coming from. Apparently if you enjoy hunting other than birds and small game you have low self-esteem??? I wish I knew that and here I thought I was leaning more towards being an ego-maniac? I learn something new every day.
Just give other hunters the benefit of the doubt if they are following game laws then hey have fun hunting even if it's a type of hunting you don't understand/enjoy/participate in.

I should have been more specific when I said that I dont believe in it. You can do it if you want. I woudl never lobby or support a law that takes our rights away. I just personally don't believe in it.

Its all good, lets have a beer ;c

vaulter
12-30-2003, 12:20
No problem.....make mine a bear though instead of a beer :)
I'm actually going to try hunting over bait this year for the first time. I found a place about 45 minutes from my house with tons of bear sign this fall while grouse hunting...without a dog thank you very much :).
You can have 3 diff bait sites with your Idaho bait permit. I think I will set out 3 diff sites after hiking in at least a mile on each one carrying several 5 gallon buckets of apples and will check em several mornings a week. I will have to pack more apples in to replenish baits that have (hopefully) been hit. Then once I find a good bait site will then have to get in and set up a tree stand in the early afternoon and see if I can catch something coming into it before I lose shooting light.
Then hopefully get a decent sized bear with a good shot opportunity..if I manage to set the bait corerectly and if the bear cooperates to line up in a shooting lane.
Then if I am not blessed enough to have the bear drop in his tracks I will get to follow a blood trail possibly after its dark already and hope that I find a stone cold bear 30 or 40 yards away and not one with some piss and vinager left in him to see if he can get me before I get him.
It may just be me but this scenario seems to be just as sporting as sitting along a corn feild and waiting for deer to show up. :)

RugerFan58
12-30-2003, 17:11
Originally posted by vaulter
It may just be me but this scenario seems to be just as sporting as sitting along a corn feild and waiting for deer to show up. :) [/B] Hi Vaulter,The article I read in "The Maine Sportsman" told of the over 60% of Sportsman Alliance of Maine members being for the banning.I had to reread that one a few times.Like I said before I don't hunt bear and no longer live in Maine.The petition at the polls happened just after I moved. Maine and NH both have laws against hunting over artificial baits in everything except bear. From what I've heard{yes...heresy} alot of bad press started in N.H. because of the dogs running onto posted land. That was why alot of land in Carrol County,NH was heavily posted against only bear hunting and nothing else.If this referendum is approved by voters it'll be done with alot of hunters votes.If I can find the "Maine Sportsman" articles in question I'll scan and post them so you can read them for yourself. Your scenario is vastly different than the ones presented by Maine hunters and property owners in these articles. I'm going to a gun show in NH this weekend not too far from my house in Maine. I'll do my best to swing up there and grab those issues.:cool: