Student pilot killers. [Archive] - Glock Talk

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Skyhook
01-29-2004, 07:04
I suppose students are not the only ones threatened by these two items, but often as not you'll hear someone say something is dangerous about those 'little' airplanes. Well, yes, there is, but it isn't the airplane per se, is it?

REPORT: MANEUVERS AND MIDAIRS BIGGEST THREATS TO STUDENT PILOTS
A new report by AOPA's Air Safety Foundation (ASF) about flight-training safety shows that instructional flight is safer than most other types of GA flying, AOPA said on Monday. But the study also revealed the two types of instructional accidents with the highest fatality rates: low-level maneuvering flight and midair collisions. "In the one case, instructors are inadvertently allowing a simulated emergency to degenerate into a real one," said ASF Executive Director Bruce Landsberg. "In the other, what should be an asset -- a second set of eyes in the cockpit -- isn't paying dividends." The study analyzed data from 2,295 instructional accidents from 1992 to 2001, both dual and solo. Of those, 201 accidents (9 percent) were fatal. More...

Wulfenite
01-29-2004, 09:13
The simulated emergency thing is tough. The CFI must let the student get low enough to know if they missed it or made it; otherwise no learning takes place. Particularly in the early stages, pre-solo, the students ability to make that judgement from a decent (>500agl) altitude is very low. Heck, figuring out if you're going to make the runway early in the approach is 1/2 of what learning to land is all about.

The mid-air issue would seem to be a funcion of how much time training flights spend in the pattern. The pattern time/flight time ratio for CFI's and training flights in general could easily be two or three times that of the rest of GA.

MarcDW
01-29-2004, 14:00
They forgot to mention that this was a fix wing study.
I started out with rotorcraft (R22) and so far I knew 5 people (in 3 different crashes) who didn't make it, 4 of them where instructors!!
Every single incidence was pilot error!

Skyhook
01-29-2004, 14:54
Great point, MarcDW. Whenever I strap an instructor pilot in next to me (I do not want to start any flaming, here) I remember that a lot of crashes have happened with a CFI aboard and I am NOT to relax my survival instincts. If it doesn't look right/sound right/feel right, I ain't doing it! Period.

MarcDW
01-29-2004, 15:25
I had two near miss with an instructor on board:
1: A tow plane dropped on my approach his cable and if I would not have made a full stop, we would have had in the rotor!
2. On departure the CFI did not follow procedure in a C210 and we had a near miss with a (again and different) tow plane which should not have been there either!

Only because the guy has a CFI does not mean that s/he is free of mistakes. Keep your own eyes open and if something is (badly) wrong act. It might safe both of your lives.

I had a CFI who got sick with food poising on an IFR training (real not the hood) in a twin and I had to make a landing with minimums. What PO me was that we landed at an field 70 miles north safely and she knew that she was sick and still took off again. Bad call and that is half the rent. People make bad calls and one thing about planes is, that they are forgiving, helicopters are not!

The article I attached below is just one, where the CFI knew the cable was there and he just forgot and the sun was in there eyes. At least the student got away with little injury.
http://www.mdwguns.com/crash.jpg