Now, this is a real Black Rifle

[fnfalman]

None of them sissy-assed toys.

[RepublicanMan]

Originally posted by fnfalman
None of them sissy-assed toys that are so much more accurate, easier to maintain, provide for faster follow up shots due to less recoil and have a proven battle history in more than one or two major campaigns.

[fnfalman]

Easier to maintain? Is that why it keeps jamming all the time?

Faster additional shots? The poodleshooter sure could use it. It can barely kill a cat much less a starved enemy peasant.

Proven in combat history? Most definitely. Proved that it's a POS that got GI killed in action.

[RepublicanMan]

Originally posted by fnfalman
Easier to maintain? Is that why it keeps jamming all the time?

Faster additional shots? The poodleshooter sure could use it. It can barely kill a cat much less a starved enemy peasant.

Proven in combat history? Most definitely. Proved that it's a POS that got GI killed in action.

Spoken like a man that reads way too much on the internet and has absolutely no real-world experience to fall back on.

[ponykilr]

not wanting an argument...but why would you post crap like that in a forum for AR's? are you a troll?

[fnfalman]

Another real Black Rifle. It takes a real man with combat training-honed muscle to wield such a weapon of war.

[fnfalman]

It said Black Rifle Club, didn't it? Did it say anywhere AR/M16/Mattel Toy's Club?

[Hines57]

Originally posted by fnfalman
None of them sissy-assed toys.
Sweeeeet! A real black rifle you have there.

[Hines57]

Originally posted by fnfalman
It said Black Rifle Club, didn't it? Did it say anywhere AR/M16/Mattel Toy's Club?
Hahaha, if only they had named the rimfire club the .22 club instead, this forum could have been a subforum of that.

I guess since they won't let them talk about AR's in the high power forum, this one could be called the "low power forum". ;f

[RepublicanMan]

Originally posted by ponykilr
not wanting an argument...but why would you post crap like that in a forum for AR's? are you a troll?

Bingo Ponykiller....but that's ok.
He talks about combat trained honed muscle yet he's most likely never seen the inside of a military installation, much less been in the military or done anything vaguel militaristic, aside from his time in the Cub Scouts of course.


Again, for a "toy", it has one hell of a battle history....consider that we won every major engagement in Vietnam, most using the "toy", we went through Grenada like **** through a goose using the "toy", we went through Panama like **** through a goose using the "toy", we went through Iraq not once but twice using the "toy".

Show me some real world experience on your end that it's a POS and maybe then I'll believe you.
Until then I'll rely on my 12 years of service of which 6 months were spent carrying and using the "toy" in Saudi Arabia, Iraq nad Kuwait, and during which I had absolutely ZERO malfs while I was there.

Thanks for playing.

[Hines57]

Originally posted by RepublicanMan
Spoken like a man that reads way too much on the internet and has absolutely no real-world experience to fall back on.
I would trust fnfalman, his real world experience, and his FAL to cover my back any day.

[mindonmatter]

My god....let's all pitch in for some cheese to go with the sudden amount of whine in here ;Q

Trolls like cheese, yes?

[ponykilr]

there are particular guns that i dont care for....so i dont visit places where they talk about them. we are supposed to be like a family here.......right?;g

[fnfalman]

I was forced to carry Mattel's special for eight years active duty. I felt like a limpwrister all those times except for the few moments when I cross trained with the Bundeswehr and got to shoot their G-3s and the Irish Rangers who carried SLRs (Brit-talk for FAL).

RepublicMan,

Who's is this "we" when you talked about Grenada and Panama. I was there with Bravo, 1st of the 501st PIR "Red Devils", 82nd Airborne Division. Where were you?

Edit to add: The below picture was taken on my last training exercise with Charlie, 1st of the 502nd, 101st Airborne Division, June 1992. It's a good thing that the first Gulf War had limited smallarms engagements. Otherwise, my jammed Mattel's special would have gotten me wasted by some peasant sandhopper with an AK.

[fnfalman]

There are times when I feel like playing with my poodleshooter so, I'd break this Black Rifle out. That's a real soldier's weapon right there. Ready for action from Arctic condition to steamy tropical jungles.

[Canucksvt]

I prefer my Krebs AK-103 to all the rifles listed above. That being said, I prefer my M1A more than my Krebs AK-103. :)

[JeepDriver]

I cross trained with the Bundeswehr and got to shoot their G-3s

I had a chance to shoot an origional G3 (select fire) The full auto position was fun, but the gun shined in semi auto aimed fire. It had a scope on it that was accurate out to 250 yards (in my hands) We were plinking Clay birds w/o any problems.

The G3 is a beatiful weapon.

The HK21-E on the other hand..........

[fnfalman]

The HK21-E on the other hand
------------------------

I know what you mean. Not everything stamped "HK" is worth their weight in gold. The HK21 tried to utilize a rifle's action and design for sustained automatic fire required of a machine gun. Wrong!

[RepublicanMan]

Originally posted by fnfalman
I was forced to carry Mattel's special for eight years active duty. I felt like a limpwrister all those times except for the few moments when I cross trained with the Bundeswehr and got to shoot their G-3s and the Irish Rangers who carried SLRs (Brit-talk for FAL).

RepublicMan,

Who's is this "we" when you talked about Grenada and Panama. I was there with Bravo, 1st of the 501st PIR "Red Devils", 82nd Airborne Division. Where were you?


In general I'd be willing to give the benefit of the doubt and accept a claim of service at face value but your attitude, lack of maturity and use of a cheesy sounding nickname reads way too much like something out of a Stephen Hunter book so I'll go ahead and call BS. I was in school back then, learning basic social skills, you should give it a try.

Careful Hines, he stops too suddenly and you may suffocate.

[ponykilr]

republican, ask 'em where the pics of HIS rifles are. those are pics copped from the net.

[RepublicanMan]

Not worth wasting my time......I did check out his website....he has a hardon for Airborne although I doubt he'd know a T-10 from a -1C if it bit him in the ass. Based on some of his previous posts he's more concerned with trying to get laid than he is with being a productive member of society.

On a sidenote....you race at Rockingham in the Fbody?
I left Bragg in 99, raced there from 94 - 99 in my Mustang, used to know a lot of people there. If you do, the next time you're out there, find Earwood and tell him Racin' Ray said to stop charging so much for the Friday Night Street Fights. ;f

[wishywashy]

Now, this is a real Black Rifle

^2

[fnfalman]

T-10s were for old timers like me. -1C is for the Bush Daddy's "kinder, gentler" generation.

[RepublicanMan]

Close....T-10s are still in use (as of 99) by the 80 Deuce.....we used -1C, call it what you want but it's nice to be able to steer away from the trees when the boneheads flying the plane miss their marks.

[fnfalman]

I do remember a newfangled thing called MC-1B.

[coverdog]

Damn,I think i'm going to have to go in the basement and dig up my waders. It's starting to get deep in here.

[coverdog]

double tap

[nipperwolf]

Originally posted by fnfalman
It said Black Rifle Club, didn't it? Did it say anywhere AR/M16/Mattel Toy's Club?

the MATTEL MYTH (http://www.snopes.com/military/m16.htm) doesn't belong here.

[ponykilr]

Originally posted by RepublicanMan
Not worth wasting my time......I did check out his website....he has a hardon for Airborne although I doubt he'd know a T-10 from a -1C if it bit him in the ass. Based on some of his previous posts he's more concerned with trying to get laid than he is with being a productive member of society.

On a sidenote....you race at Rockingham in the Fbody?
I left Bragg in 99, raced there from 94 - 99 in my Mustang, used to know a lot of people there. If you do, the next time you're out there, find Earwood and tell him Racin' Ray said to stop charging so much for the Friday Night Street Fights. ;f

ahhhhh, fayetteville. yes i have burned many days pay in tire smoke and fuel at fayetteville motorsports park. i ran a 95 corvette there for a few years that went 12.30's on motor with a 1.70 short time. i have had 9 z28's of different years from 86 up, all have tasted the pavement down there. my last car i messed with was my '03 camaro ss that went(NO BULL) a best of 12.97 stone stock down to the paper air filter and stock goodyears. ls1's fly dude. i havve traded it for a full size pickup but i still have a stock 96 z that needs some buck thrown at it........maybe a equity loan, yeah! thats the ticket.;f

[RepublicanMan]

I stopped racing at Fayettenam Motorsports Park when they turned it over to the all out race cars and only let the street cars make an occasional run.
I spent a lot of Fridays at Rockingham though, that's where Earwood is. Steve Earwood owns the place, good guy and a good friend of mine. Depending on how long you have been there and raced there we might even have met. I had a silver 94 GT with NC plates IH8CHEVY. It was a bottle baby...ran 12.5s on motor and 11.5s on the bottle with 1.65-1.75 60s on ET Streets.
Hell, you probably know another good friend of mine named Bob Dalton since he has a hand in most of the faster F-Bodys in that area.

[4TS&W]

Originally posted by fnfalman
None of them sissy-assed toys.

Then do us all a favor and go stand in front of loaded one at the range to show us all how anemic they are... ;Q

[ponykilr]

Originally posted by 4TS&W
Then do us all a favor and go stand in front of loaded one at the range to show us all how anemic they are... ;Q
^6
i get the same thing from some of my friends when i get dragged into a discussion about pistols. i am now(was not at all for a long time) a 9mm fan. new ammo makes them very effective and easy to shoot. great capacity and cheap ammo...........wait a minute, thats the same things i like about .223 rem:)

look, the m16 was not given a fair shake in vietnam because of no cleaning and very crappy ammo. it is a fine weapon and they function very well with minimum fuss. the m16 reliability myth is just that, a myth.what about all the myths about the 1911 and 1911a1. now they are some of the most accurate and reliable pistols in any competition and real world use as well(i dont own one, glocks forever;f ) .223 rem is an awesome anti personel round. it was never designed as an anti aircraft and anti tank and such. it will surely kill any poodle or person very easily. sure there are more powerful rifles. sure there may be better rifles for certain tasks. but the AR is a very good battle rifle and that is what it was designed for. that said, i am a AK man myself, but i have a overwhelming desire to have an AR...........;g just cant resist 'em. once you spend a little time with one, you are hooked(all except you fnfal)

[Savage]

The AR15/M16 does exactly what it was designed to do and even more so. It is now effective well beyond it's original spec of 300 yards thanks to heavy bullets and slower powders. Kept moderately clean, it will function well anywhere. I have NEVER seen an accurized FAL that can come near the same in an AR15. I would take an AR10 over any other weapon previously discussed. I have one that is sub-MOA all the way out to 1000 yards. This is not unusual for the 10T/SR25 crowd.

[stiletto raggio]

We ahve probably the crappiest M16s in the Army here (converted A1s), and form a standing, unsupported position, I can hit 2 of 3 300 meter targets when we get to mess around at the qual range. The m16 is accurate, and reviews of the M4 in Iraq are favorable. I would prefer a 6mm round, but I would take an M4 over any pistol.

[Egyas]

As a total noob to this forum, am I correct in assuming that "black rifle" is supposed to mean black-powder rifle?

[fnfalman]

Black Rifle was a term that came out in the 1980s to denote modern military rifles because these things generally are finished in black. Somehow the Ar15/M16 crowd decided to proclaim that it refers to them.

Please note in my original post, I didn't didn't mention any specific model or type, but the Mattel Toy crowds have inherent inferiority complexes and therefore they pounced on me in defense of their cute little playthings.

Attached is a picture of two of the better representations of the Black Rifle breed. Definitely no Hollywood toys for SWAT/Commando wannabes but honest-to-goodness weapons of war.

[mindonmatter]

Originally posted by fnfalman
Please note in my original post, I didn't didn't mention any specific model or type, but the Mattel Toy crowds have inherent inferiority complexes and therefore they pounced on me in defense of their cute little playthings.

LMAO. Are you okay in the head?

Maybe you should go back and read your original post, and think it over a little. You came here calling other people's choice of guns "sissy" and are now still calling them "cute little play things". How dare anyone take that the wrong way!? ;Q

Then you say we have inferiority complexes? LOL, pot...kettle. As long as it makes you feel like a bigger man, I guess that's all that matters. Would it make you feel even better if I told you that you have a big wiener? Tell us how to boost your ego a little higher, so then maybe you'll feel competent enough to play nice with others.

Maybe someday we can all live up to your high standards.

[RepublicanMan]

Mindonmatter....please bear in mind that this is the same individual that feels as though he has to have material possesions to attain self worth and to find a woman that will condescend to associate with him. (as indicated by some of his previous posts and the tag under his avatar).
Take a minute or two to show him how ignorant he is and then move on....it's more fun that way.
I could also go into more detail about him as gleaned from his home page but I'd be called a racist.....so I'll just say that it's too bad the body count wasn't a bit higher 30 - 40 years ago, might have saved us all a headache.

[Egyas]

Ok, now I understand what "Black Rifle" stands for.

For the record, I have only fired one member of the AR-15/M-16/Etc family. It was an AR-15 made by bushmaster. I loved it! I have heard all the bad talk about them, but I never noticed any "blowback" issues, never felt/saw anything blown onto my face/glasses, and hod NO PROBLEM cleaning it. It didn't seem any dirtier than the SKS we fired that day.

Now the Win. 338 Lupa Mag that was fired that day, wow. That put a hurt on the target, I'll tell ya. ;) (I know it is not the same class, and isn't a "Black Rifle") Didn't get the pleasure of cleaning that one however, the owner was VERY protective of his "baby".

[Egyas]

Originally posted by Egyas
Ok, now I understand what "Black Rifle" stands for.

For the record, I have only fired one member of the AR-15/M-16/Etc family. It was an AR-15 made by bushmaster. I loved it! I have heard all the bad talk about them, but I never noticed any "blowback" issues, never felt/saw anything blown onto my face/glasses, and hod NO PROBLEM cleaning it. It didn't seem any dirtier than the SKS we fired that day.

Now the Win. 338 Lupa Mag that was fired that day, wow. That put a hurt on the target, I'll tell ya. ;) (I know it is not the same class, and isn't a "Black Rifle") Didn't get the pleasure of cleaning that one however, the owner was VERY protective of his "baby".


BTW, does anyone know what the outer covering of the XM-8 is made of? Is it standard plastic or is it polymer?

[mindonmatter]

Originally posted by RepublicanMan
Mindonmatter....please bear in mind that this is the same individual that feels as though he has to have material possesions to attain self worth and to find a woman that will condescend to associate with him. (as indicated by some of his previous posts and the tag under his avatar).
Take a minute or two to show him how ignorant he is and then move on....it's more fun that way.


Yeah, I've noticed the same thing. People are funny. They have to make up for the small size of their......, with big toys(cars, guns, etc). If someone doesn't have a toy as big theirs, they can finally feel somewhat adequate dispite the size of their...... ;)

I'll let him continue boosting his ego as big as he wants. You gotta have sympathy for the less than well endowed;f

[fnfalman]

so I'll just say that it's too bad the body count wasn't a bit higher 30 - 40 years ago, might have saved us all a headache.
------------------------------------

The feeling is mutual there, war buddy.

[RepublicanMan]

Originally posted by fnfalman
so I'll just say that it's too bad the body count wasn't a bit higher 30 - 40 years ago, might have saved us all a headache.
------------------------------------

The feeling is mutual there, war buddy.

Trust me, we aren't and never will be buddies....

[ponykilr]

guys, this forum is for AR type rifles. not to slam others 'cause i love me some AK action. but that is what its for. thats what was talked about in the beginning and was voted on. if you dont like AR type weapons, then go play somewhere else. if you want an FAL club, get up the support and maybe eric will create one.(support seems to be 2-3 guys though. anyway, lets all just get along and if we have to.....keep away from each other.;g

[fnfalman]

Trust me, we aren't and never will be buddies....
-------------------------------

Oh man, that truly hurts me deep. So much for compatriots-in-arms and Band-of-Brothers stuff. ;?

ponykilr,

Have Eric change the forum's name to AR15/M16 and I won't come no mo'! Well, that's not true. I'd still come by now and then and visit.;)

[RepublicanMan]

Originally posted by fnfalman
Trust me, we aren't and never will be buddies....
-------------------------------

Oh man, that truly hurts me deep. So much for compatriots-in-arms and Band-of-Brothers stuff. ;?

ponykilr,




With any luck it'll result in a bleed out.

[fnfalman]

Most definitely my heart is broken and I can't stand to think that a fellow veteran would have such disgard for his comrade-in-arms's feelings and disrespectful to the uniform that he was wearing by insinuating that he was an enemy.

Oh the pain, the pain!

Arrgghhh!!!! Alas, Horatio, I die.;h

[RepublicanMan]

People like you are the enemy...to good order and discipline if nothing else. Your history speaks for itself sir.

By your own admission, had this forum had another name, you wouldn't have come into it running your mouth and causing problems. That shows a lack of maturity and respect in and of itself.

The fact is, I find it highly unlikely (although not inconceiveable) that you are a "war veteran" or even a veteran at all. I do however concede that in the past 10 years or so, thanks to your buddy Bill Clinton, standards of discipline and training have slipped so low that it's possible that you served and managed to obtain an honorable discharge even with such a piss poor attitude.

[fnfalman]

Please don't call me "sir". I worked for a living. Also, I can take your jabs just fine but don't you DARE question my service times or my active duty performance. Pissants like you were sucking at your mama's teats while I was doing my soldiering.

I was trained and conditioned in the mighty Reagan years instead of the "time-out card" Army that you served in. If you wanna play who's the better GI, I can play that game too.

You can thank your buddy King George the Senior for the fall in standards and disciplines. Your precious Commander-in-Chief Komrade Klinton simply finished off what that great President Reagan had formed and your precious Republican President King George destroyed.

[RepublicanMan]

Originally posted by fnfalman
Please don't call me "sir". I worked for a living. Also, I can take your jabs just fine but don't you DARE question my service times or my active duty performance. Pissants like you were sucking at your mama's teats while I was doing my soldiering.



Given that, according to your homepage, you were born in '67 I find it extremely amusing that you, in the two more years of life you've had, could have been soldiering while I was suckling at my mama's teats as you quaintly put it.

I went in at 17 in the year 1987....so, giving you the benefit of the doubt (difficult to do when you're so obviously full of ****) you could have gone in in 1985.... Care to dig your hole any further?

If your service was as valuable and incredible as you seem to want to think it was then my questioning it wouldn't much matter now would it? Bottom line is, again giving you the benefit of the doubt, if you did serve it was likely only for 4 years and then I'd bet you probably didn't make it past the rank of PFC or possibly E-4 given your poor attitude, lack of discipline and generally ****ty outlook.

Perhaps once you learn some common courtesy, common sense and generally how to become a productive member of society nobody will question you, until then....get used to it BOY.

[Savage]

FN,

Not that you need any more people telling you this but you came in here to start something. If you were indeed an NCO or above (with that many years one would think), I'm quite surprised you are this verbal and antagonistic. If you have a need to stir things up by stating that we all use "sissy rifles, et al." then maybe you should get your validation somewhere else. There are a great number of vets in here that are more than ready to show respect to someone else's service record. Don't expect that respect to be without limits if you go around intentionally starting arguements, which you obviously did here.

[fnfalman]

I seriously doubt that you were a messkit repair soldier much less somebody that served with the Guards of Honor. The way you whine and being so "thenthetive", it sounds like you're one of those GI wannabe walter mitty.

As far as learning common courtesy, it was you who decided to attack me and my service time. It was you who decided to be personal. So, heal thyself, hypocrite. You probably learned that during the "kinder, gentler" generation service, I'll bet. And why is it that you got out after twelve years (that is if you were ever a soldier)? Probably got QMPed out, huh?

I signed up when I was also a mere lad of 17 January 1984. Got to Campbell by June 84, stayed there until January 1988, reenlisted with Bragg as my station of choice, PCSed to Bragg by March, Infantry BNOC by May and stayed until June 1990 and got PCSed back to Campbell and stayed with that outfit until my ETS in June 1992. Is that detail enough for you? Maybe we should post our DD-214 and see whose pecker is bigger?

And listen to you, what the hell do you know about discipline? You're a joke. You take umbrage over some stupid internet postings about some POS smallarms and cast aspersions against a fellow serviceman. So, who's the better of whom? I'll bet you're really proud of yourself for that action, huh? Want some ARCOMs or MSMs to go with that? Maybe a Bronze Star for your great deed showing me up?

If you were ever a soldier at all, then you should have realized that you ain't in the Army no more. You don't have to walk around as though there's still a ramrod up your anal orifice. You're just a civilian like the rest of us nowadays. Productive member of the society my ass! When was the last time you went and helped refurbished a VFM branch? When was the last time you went out into the 120+ degree Arizona desert summer and helped build an extra wing for a poor community's grade school?

Oh yeah, you're a big productive member for the society, alright. All we have to do is take your internet posting for it.

Oh my, I bow to you, sir. I bow to you, Mr. Paragon of Virtues. ;Q

[fnfalman]

Savage,

You need to re-read the posts and see who makes it personal first. If people wanna take personal shots at me, then be prepared to get some returning fire. That's all there is to it.

Oh my God! fnfalman is a bad man! He's making fun of a rifle. Oh no, oh me, oh my!!!! The world is coming to an end.

[Savage]

I don't mean to get into a spitting match, FN. As a vet, I respect what every one of us has done in crappy places, for too little pay and often respect. My read on this is that you knew coming in that this would be a flame fest. If I bust on your car I'm betting you would go thru the roof. It's the same thing. Being critical is one thing if it's constructive. This has not been. That is all.

[G23Adam]

this is not the place for this nonsense.

I personally don't care, don't really think anyone else wants to read about how "I'm much more of a man than you because I think my opinions are 100% correct and I served in some capacity for Uncle Sam"

Quit acting like childern, it really isn't necessary. Nor does it bring respect for anyone, because for one, I certainly am not impressed.

[RepublicanMan]

Ok, I'll admit it...I was wrong for taking it to a personal level, especially with the body count crack, and for that I apologize.

I don't however apologize for taking you to task on your instigation of arguments in a new forum just because you have some personal vendetta against either Mattel (who incidentally only made the hand guards on the original M-16 series) or against Eugene Stoner and his wonderful offspring the M-16.

If you were truly a fellow NCO then hooahh and thanks for serving.
Now, act like an NCO and stop trolling around internet message boards trying to start flamewars by posting crap that you know will draw responses. This isn't the first time you and I have had "words" regarding some of the crap you post and I doubt it'll be the last, but we can agree to make the effort to minimize the damage no?

[fnfalman]

Hey,

You and I can disagree on the M16 until the day the dinosaurs return, but it was you that made it personal. I was merely making fun of the rifle. Big deal. Stir up some excitement, get the juice going. Maybe even get the mousegunners to open their opportunities for other makes and models.

It's a damn shame that two servicemen had to resort to calling each other names and cast doubts on each other's services. For that I also apologize.

However, I don't remember that we had crossed words before. Apparently you have a better memory than I do.

Charlie Mike.

[G23Adam]

Thank you both for being civil.

[RepublicanMan]

Mousegunners??

I was in the market for an AR-10 or a Bushy Dissipator when I lucked into a great deal on my AR-15....I also happen to like the HK-91, HK-93, G-3, FNFAL and a host of other .308 cal battle rifles, except the POS M-14, can't stand that thing. At any rate.....I sincerely doubt that many, if any of the people around here, need to have our eyes opened to the wonders of a .308 cal rifle, but thanks for the concern. ;f


As for the crossing of swords in the past...as I recall it was something or other to do with Dubya whom I support and (unless I'm mistaken) you don't.

[scromer]

FN and Republic,

This has been one of the most entertaining threads I've seen on Glocktalk in a loooong time. This made me think of the good old days of Mc Uzi on AR15.com;f ;f

I'm glad to see you two decided to agree to disagree - I carried the M16 for 11 years.

;V

[fnfalman]

I also happen to like the HK-91, HK-93, G-3, FNFAL and a host of other .308 cal battle rifles, except the POS M-14, can't stand that thing
----------------------

Holy macaroni and cheese!!! We actually see eyes-to-eyes on a coupla things. I can't stand the M-14 either! The stupid skinny barrel sticking out like a stick.;G

At least the M16A2 is good for bayonet work. It's fairly long and straight with good balance and the heavy-duty buttstock can crack some serious heads.

[CJan_NH]

I also happen to like the HK-91, HK-93, G-3, FNFAL and a host of other .308 cal battle rifles, except the POS M-14, can't stand that thing
Fnfalman, I have an opportunity to buy a LNIB DSArms STG58 from a shooting buddy who needs some extra cash for some home repairs. How does the DSA STG58 measure up to the DSA SA58?

If I understand it correctly the STG58s use surplus FAL parts mated to a DSA receiver. Is this correct? It looks like a beautiful rifle but FALs are new territory for me.

Thanks in advance :)

[Hines57]

Man, I miss a day and a half and get left out of all the fun.

So did anybody work out just what the best "black rifle" is?

[RepublicanMan]

Yeah, the militarys of the world did....(unless you count the AK which can sometimes be black) it would be....surprise surprise, the AR series...most widely used.

[fnfalman]

CJAN,

I have no experience with DSArms FALs whatsoever. Their STG58 are using Steyr STG58 parts mated with various new American parts. From what I've been told, supposedly either choices are very nice.

As far as which is the best Black Rifle, there can be no doubt: The FAL. The choice of the Free World in more than 90 countries. Until everybody decided to go to a poodleshooter caliber, that is.

[RepublicanMan]

It's called progress there my man, it's called progress......much like the OHC engine replaced or is replacing the dinosaur Push Rod motor in most performance cars today....those that adapt survive (AKA Mustang) those that don't die (AKA GM F-Body) ;c

And I still think you should be the moderator of this fine forum.

[Hines57]

Originally posted by fnfalman
As far as which is the best Black Rifle, there can be no doubt: The FAL. The choice of the Free World in more than 90 countries. Until everybody decided to go to a poodleshooter caliber, that is.
You would pick these:

[Hines57]

over these:



(see, these can be black also)

[Hines57]

or these:

(also black)

[Hines57]

or even these:

[Hines57]

and I'll throw these in because they are black, and the AR180 is also one of my favorite go to rifles.

[Hines57]

Originally posted by RepublicanMan

And I still think you should be the moderator of this fine forum.

I will second the motion for fnfalman for moderator.

[RepublicanMan]

Can't be...it is, in the immortal words of your master...a poodle shooter. ;Q

[fnfalman]

I can't be the Moderator because I'm a troublemaker.:)

Although I do think that the Black Rifle forum should be opened for business with the owners and enthusiasts of military automatic rifles.

Hell, I own more poodleshooters than the .30-cal. Just not AR15s, that's all. Actually I once did about fifteen years ago, an Olympic Arms XM-15. Gave it away back in 1993 to one of the old war buddies that needed a little-something-something but whose financial burden disallowed him to buy one.

[fnfalman]

Hines,

Your Galil AR 5.56mm has an 18" barrel? Mine only has a 16" barrel. I thought that in order to get the longer barrel you had to go with the one with the wooden handguard and bipod.

I kick myself every day for not getting a .308 Valmet in addition to my 5.56 M76.

[RepublicanMan]

I don't believe that the forum was ever intended to be soley for the AR series of rifles.....so far as I'm concerned it shouldn't be.
I also however don't think the forum was ever intended to be used to harrass, harangue or otherwise annoy those of us that do choose to own an AR rifle.

[fnfalman]

What's wrong with some inter-caliber rivalry?;f

[ponykilr]

Originally posted by RepublicanMan
It's called progress there my man, it's called progress......much like the OHC engine replaced or is replacing the dinosaur Push Rod motor in most performance cars today....those that adapt survive (AKA Mustang) those that don't die (AKA GM F-Body) ;c

And I still think you should be the moderator of this fine forum.

ok now, lets not throw stones;) my heart is broken enough already

[RepublicanMan]

LOL

Sorry about that Pony....I have a rather intense dislike of the modular Mustangs (aside from the blown Cobra that is) but it is true that the OHC stuff is probably the way of the future.

[fnfalman]

You guys wanna join in the Mustang/Corvette bash in General Non-Glocking?;a

[nipperwolf]

dang, I was enjoying this thread.
now its life is limited.
;f

[RepublicanMan]

No thanks...I'd still take either over that girly-car Beemer you drive. ;f

Besides, there's more room in the trunk and back seat of the Mustang for guns and ammo.

[ponykilr]

gm has pissed me off so bad. first, they kill the f-bods, then, they create that hideous ssr and spent lord knows how much doing it. that cash could have created a new f-bod or a replacement. previous to that, they killed the caprice and gave the police car market entirely to ford(except that now i see a few impala fwd copcars). they completly alienated the core of their customers by ruining the looks of their best seller, the chevy silverado. i was so disgusted i bought a new ford truck this year instead of a gm........and i am a ase/gm master tech working at a chevy/cadillac dealer. well, i still got glock;) i am seriously considering a new mustang when they arrive, at least ford knows how to keep their priorities in order. that new stang gets my heart beating faster than full auto;P

[DJ Niner]

Originally posted by RepublicanMan
I don't believe that the forum was ever intended to be soley for the AR series of rifles.....so far as I'm concerned it shouldn't be. Please direct your attention to this thread that started it all:

http://glocktalk.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=213549

And especially the first post, where the subject is laid out:

AR15/M16 Club?
What about an AR/M16 Club for the black rifle connoisseur?

Personally, I think the club name should have been what we were voting on in the first post, and I've PMed a moderator to say the same; obviously, there has been some confusion, and that MAY have prevented it (or not). Of course, you AK/FN/G3/whatever fans could just take the same course of action that us AR fanciers did, and get the votes to ask Eric to form your OWN club. Or, your weapons still "fit" into the High Power Club, of course...

[coverdog]

True. That's what I come here to read about.

[coverdog]

Can we vote on that too?

edited to add: It may help keep the trolls like we have now out.

[RepublicanMan]

I've come to realize that FN isn't a troll, well ok, maybe he is, but he doesn't even believe half of the crap he posts himself, he just does it to get a rise out of people.
Kinda funny when you look at it from that point of view.

I stand corrected on the forum origins....I still don't see where it should be a problem for FN, SK or any other mil type rifles to be included...I for one will damned sure end up talking about my SKS a time or two (thousand). ;f

[mindonmatter]

Originally posted by RepublicanMan
I've come to realize that FN isn't a troll, well ok, maybe he is, but he doesn't even believe half of the crap he posts himself, he just does it to get a rise out of people.


I'm pretty sure that's what a troll does. You're right....maybe he is ;)

[RepublicanMan]

Originally posted by RepublicanMan

Kinda funny when you look at it from that point of view.




I guess I'm just easily amused....must be why I tried racing a 94Z for one season. ~1

[fnfalman]

Since that I've been posting on Glock Talk for three years, I am hardly a troll.

If people take my poking fun at a piece of machinery and gets personal on me then I'll get personal back.

Lighten up. It's only an internet forum. If RepublicanMan and I; of whom we have had heated and insulting exchanges against each other, can make up and play nice, then who are you people to call me troll? If anything the people with the personal grudges are the trolls.

Like I said, change this forum's name to AR16/M16 then I'd stay away. Black Rifles, to a multitude of people, are the monikers for modern military semiautos.

[mindonmatter]

You're too much. Look, you went to the "other" Glock forum to complain about this thread, and about the car thread. Even there, of all places, people told you to grow up and get over it. You say that we should "lighten up" and shouldn't take it so seriously, but now look who's taking it seriously....you. You have such a problem with it that you're now going around crying about it at other forums so you can get some sympathy. Quite honestly, you fit in over there much better.

Just because you've been here for 3 years, doesn't mean you aren't a troll on a certain level. A troll is someone that goes around posting things just to get a rise out of people, just so they can argue, and just because they think it's fun. That describes you perfectly, and somewhat to your own admission. Grow up.

[fnfalman]

It don't mean squat to me, but apparently even RepublicanMan took umbrage at the post against me. So that ought to tell you something.

I'll grow up when you do. As far as "complaining" on the other forum, I didn't complain. Simply reporting the facts. Since that you also visit the other forum, why don't we go overthere and play if you wanna get personal.

I have enough respect to Eric on GT to not get nasty over here unless others wanna get personal.

[ponykilr]

i still say that the original idea for this forum was ar type rifles. if everyone wants to make it an asault weapon forum, thats ok by me. a little rivalry never hurt antone. but if you go to say....the big dawgs club and start bashing the .45 acp, you will get slammed. lets make up our minds what we want. as of right now, it WAS created as aN AR forum.

[RepublicanMan]

Other Glock forum???

To be honest with you, I wouldn't mind it at all if the forum were opened to include all military style assault rifles.....as I said, excluding the M14 I have yet to meet one I didn't like and if my wallet (read wife) would allow it I'd certainly own one of each that's been posted about to this point. Besides, I'm secure in the knowledge that my little "poodleshooter", in factory stock condition, will outshoot anything that's been posted about to this point from an accuracy standpoint.....and like it or not, it's battle proven and will damned sure kill whatever it hits within 200yds with a COM hit (20 inch firing XM-193 through a 1-9 barrel).

[mindonmatter]

Originally posted by fnfalman
As far as "complaining" on the other forum, I didn't complain. Simply reporting the facts. Since that you also visit the other forum, why don't we go overthere and play if you wanna get personal.

I have enough respect to Eric on GT to not get nasty over here unless others wanna get personal.

LOL, simply reporting the facts, eh? Call it what you want. Whatever you call it, even the people over there see through your BS.

And making posts trying to bait me in over there, and calling me a p*ssy won't get you anywhere. You would catch me being a member at such a place and stooping to your level, the same day I caught you praising an M-16. I prefer to talk about guns and gun topics, that's why I'm a member here. If I want to talk about jerking off, seeing nipples, telling racial jokes, flaming people, disrespecting this website and Eric....I'll sign up there. The only reason that place exists is because the trolls that were banned from this site had to congrigate somewhere and talk ish. I just stop by once and a while to see what the latest complaint about GlockTalk is, but I ingnore the other trash. That's all the site is used for. The "gun talk" to "trash talk" ratio over there, is about 1:100 ratio. There are a couple of good people there, but that ratio is through the roof too.

Hopefully this forum gets a moderator very soon.

[fnfalman]

Hey,

You're the one that wants to keep on with the personal attack. Like I said, if you wanna play the flame game, we can go to the other joint and play. Otherwise, I'll ignore your personal insults overhere out of respect for Eric and GlockTalk policies.

To Eric and other GT members, you have my public and sincere apologies for engaging in personal attacks (even though it was return fire instead of initiation fire) on GlockTalk in contrary to this site's policies.

RepublicanMan,

I wish that other "virtuous" members on GT and in this forum would take note of your exemplary manners in the way you squared things away with me. It doesn't mean squat to me, but at least they wouldn't be so hypocritical themselves by engaging in ad hominem attack against me yet have the temerity to call me a troll.

You truly are a squared away soldier and man.

As for others who wants to play the personal attack game with me, I have an open invitation to play at the other Glock site (the one that Eric banned from posting over here). If you don't know where it is, email me and I'll give you the URL.

[mindonmatter]

Personal attacks? I'm "simply stating the facts" ;) I said you act as a troll, and you take that as a personal attack and go ape dung. You're the one calling me a "p*ssy, f*gg*t, mother******, etc", so I can go, "receive your wrath". Just because you aren't doing it on this website doesn't mean you aren't doing it somewhere else where the "rules don't apply", and it surely doesn't make you the stand up guy you are trying to come across as here. You aren't going to bait me into you little game over there. I'm done with this nonsense, and have seen your true colors. Hopefully others know the website, so they can go see them too. Beat your chest all you want, hope you feel like a tough guy you think you are.

[Hines57]

Originally posted by RepublicanMan
To be honest with you, I wouldn't mind it at all if the forum were opened to include all military style assault rifles....
See, now you are talking! What is gained by excluding "the other black rifles"? I am sure that the majority of the people that visit this forum will be AR owners, and I would expect that most of the posts will be about the AR's. But you never know when you might want to branch out and see what the rest of the world has to offer. Why would anybody be opposed to the occasional thread about something different? You might see something you like.

[jethro21]

maybe the easiest thing to do is let it all go and if a situation like this occurs again, report it. it seems the most adult thing is to be done with all this

[fnfalman]

Just because you aren't doing it on this website doesn't mean you aren't doing it somewhere else where the "rules don't apply", and it surely doesn't make you the stand up guy you are trying to come across as here.
-------------------------------

At least I respect GlockTalk's site policies. Which you sure don't seem to. Hey, the other site is open for you. Apparently it's good enough for you to cruise, but not good enough to post, eh?

And it's not as though I am talking behind your back without you knowing it. I told you to come and see me over there. I posted over there because I take into consideration of Eric's request for his site's members to behave at GT. You are welcome to put up your side over there instead of inundating GlockTalk with your drivels of personal vendetta. Nobody's stopping you from signing up at the other joint. Just let me have it. You've taken enough personal jabs at me on this site, might as well go over there and do the full bore. And you wouldn't have to worry about offending Eric and his policies for GT's decorum.

I'm also done with this nonsense. If people wanna play the flame game with me, just let me know and we'll go to a site that allows it. Doing it here at GlockTalk is tres gauche. If you don't have any consideration for me, then at least have some decency toward Eric.

[DJ Niner]

Originally posted by Hines57
See, now you are talking! What is gained by excluding "the other black rifles"?How about avoiding posts/threads like the beginning of THIS one?

Look, I own (and have owned) other military-style rifles too, but my understanding was this forum was opened for the AR fans. It's a place the AR folks shouldn't have to wade through the SKS/AK/.50 caliber crap to find AR info; THAT'S why it was created. The High-Power Club is still there, and can still serve the interests of the other rifle shooters; heck, it'll be even less crowded now with the AR guys over here.

And if you can get the votes, you could petition Eric to open other forums for specific weapon systems. I'm sure you could easily get 50 for and AK/SKS forum, and maybe 5 for an FNFAL group. ;f

[Dark_IT_Papa]

Originally posted by DJ Niner
It's a place the AR folks shouldn't have to wade through the SKS/AK/.50 caliber crap to find AR info; THAT'S why it was created.

I agree with DJ Niner on this one. I would like to have this Club dedicated the ARs.

[f1b32oPTic]

nah, it would be very uninteresting...i like the fact that there are some big black rifles here too...

[RepublicanMan]

I think we have to be mindful of what kind of precedent we set here......continuing down this road could lead to eventually having people wanting clubs just for Bushy, Colt, DPMS, compensated Glocks, Modified 1911s etc.....

It's not overly difficult to "wade through" posts to get to something you want to see....and if you absolutely positively have to find some piece of important info regarding the AR series of rifles I'm sure if you popped over to AR15.com you wouldn't have any trouble.

I obviously don't agree with FN or Hines on most subjects, but, and I shudder to think of the implications, I do agree with them here.
My vote is definitely for all milsurps.....besides, why should Eric be burdened with having to mess around with yet another forum?

[Britt]

Originally posted by fnfalman
Another real Black Rifle. It takes a real man with combat training-honed muscle to wield such a weapon of war.

Is that what you are?

;f

Just kidding. I complete disagree with you about the AR (my favorite rifle) but I love reading your threads;c

Britt

[coverdog]

Oh yea, he da man.

[Hines57]

Originally posted by RepublicanMan

I obviously don't agree with FN or Hines on most subjects.....
What did we disagree on?

[RepublicanMan]

Your belief that the AR is a "low power" series of rifle as indicated by an earlier post you made in this thread. ;g

[Hines57]

Originally posted by RepublicanMan
Your belief that the AR is a "low power" series of rifle as indicated by an earlier post you made in this thread. ;g
Oh, its all in good fun. Hell I own 5 poodle shooters.

[RepublicanMan]

Now that's a nice collection!!!

[panzercom2002]

why poodle shooter?

panzer

[RepublicanMan]

I think it's because Poodles and BMWs seem to go together, like peanut butter and chocolate. :cool:


Most likely though it's because it's such a small caliber and poodles (except those scray assed biguns)are small dogs.

[redwinger]

i love to hear that phrase that gos something like "the FN/FAL is used by 3/4 of the free worlds armys"or something to that effect.point is theres us(USA0and then theres everyone else.who gives a rats a&^&^ what zibbabwi or nova scocia supply their fighting men with.ill put my money(and have )on the AR-15.

[wanderinwalker]

There are only 2 semi-automatic/automatic military rifles I like. The AR-series and the obsolete M-1 Garand. I've fired AKs, SKSs, an M-14 and a few others, but they just don't do it. The 14 is as long and heavy as the Garand, the others just don't suit me. But my interest is in what I can use in Highpower competition, and in Service Rifle the AR-15 rules the roost.

[RepublicanMan]

Easy there killer...I love my SKS...it's minute of man easily at 100 yards, easier to maintain than any rifle I know of, inexpensive and ammo is dirt cheap...what's not to love??
Using my range bag as a rest I can get 4 - 5 inch 10 shot groups at 100 yards....3 inch 3 shot groups but then for some reason I go shotgun on it. My AR is by far much more accurate but I paid for that accuracy too.....and I pay for it again every time I take it out to shoot it.
At any rate.....I'll agree with you on the M-14, the POS Mini-14 and I'm not an AK fan because I'm too damned big for the little turds...I feel like I'm trying to shoulder a pistol when I shoot my friends.

[Ramennoodlesoup]

Originally posted by RepublicanMan
I feel like I'm trying to shoulder a pistol when I shoot my friends.

With friends like you, who needs enemies? ;f

[RepublicanMan]

Nobody... ;f

I pride myself on calling a spade a spade.

[Cali-Glock]

Originally posted by Hines57
I would trust fnfalman, his real world experience, and his FAL to cover my back any day.

I'll second that.

This thread is funny. At least it is a break from the very tired AR/AK debate. I love my ARs, own more of them than I do FALs, my ARs are fun... but I trust my FAL.

Battle rifles all the way baby!