9X25 Loading Data [Archive] - Glock Talk

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MCNETT
03-08-2004, 23:08
Here is where you will post 9X25 loading data.
-Mike

spongeman66
03-09-2004, 14:51
All loads below are Winchester formed brass.
CCI-350 primers
COL 1.285" (The longest that would function in my G29 magazines).

Measured velocities are from a 3.8" Barsto Barrel in a Glock 29. Chronograph is at 8 feet, and all are 5-shot averages.

95 grain Remington FMJ (For 380 Auto)
13.3 grains 800X (Primer falls out at 14.2 grains in MY gun, so this is MY max safe load of 94%)
1772 FPS

95 grain Rem FMJ
9.8 Grains Universal Clays (same as above, primer falls out at 10.5)
1677 FPS
3/20/04 Update
9.4 Universal Clays produced the desired MAX .4290 head expansion
9.8 produces more than .4290 Head expansion for some rounds in MY GUN!


95 grain Rem FMJ
20.0 grains H108 (Case FULL. H108 is similar to AA#9 from what I understand)
1656 FPS

95 grain Rem FMJ
21.5 grains H110 (Case Full)
1556 FPS

147 Speer Gold Dot
11.0 grains 800X (From McNett)
1438 FPS
Need to investigate this load. It produces a few rounds with higher than desired head expansion in my gun. 4/5/04

147 Silvertip
15.6 grains H108 (Compressed load Hollowpoint slightly deformed)
1306 FPS

147 XTP
15.6 grains H108 (Compressed load Hollowpoint slightly deformed)
1351 FPS

spongeman66
03-09-2004, 16:07
I don't have a Dillon press, so I also don't have the Dillon powder drop and expander system. 9X25 are my first set of Dillon Dies, and they have been a learning experience. I normally use Lee dies, and I guess I just understood all of their quirks and didn't think about them any more...The Dillon dies have their own quirks...

I purchased the Lee .357 Sig Dies so I would have a powder through expander and a (more appropriate for my press) Lee-style bullet seat/crimp die.

I find that the Dillon Sizer die extremely undersizes the neck, and my Lee .357 Sig powder-thru expander didn't have quite a long enough expander to open up all of the neck and allow bullets to seat properly. I kept getting crooked seating, collapsed necks and some wrinkled shoulders. I had to re-run the loaded cartridge through the sizer die to allow the round to chamber. I was getting pretty frustrated when > 50% of my cartridges wouldn't chamber properly!

I found that pre-forming the brass with a .357 Sig die set to the proper 9X25 shoulder REALLY helps! Now, I don't have nearly as many problems with crooked seating or collapsed shoulders! I run NEW 10mm brass through the .357 Sig die FIRST, then through the 9X25 die. Now, I don't see that little 'ring' around the neck that Dillon talks about in their Die Brochure.

I am beginning to think that the combined seat/crimp operation is not a good idea for a shouldered cartridge. I now get a few wrinkled necks with brass that is slightly long. I probably need to Seat the bullet with no crimp, then crimp separately (Which is what the Dillon dies already do... I just don't have enough stations on my Pro 1000! DOH!)

Hope this helps!
Sponge

bdc
03-20-2004, 11:30
For those developing 9x25 loads, S'man has posted spreadsheets of data regarding 9x25 case volume as it is affected by bullet lenth.

http://www.glocktalk.com/showthread.php?threadid=227383

Grip reduction: http://glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=13213462#post13213462

spongeman66
03-20-2004, 22:59
I am getting tired of throwing away brass when the primer falls out, so I am working up to what I consider a safe head expansion in MY gun.
There is no factory ammo available for Waters' method pressure workups. So, I used similar head expansion as DoubleTap in my Jarvis 10mm and 1911 10mm. Suprisingly, the average and max head expansion for both of those barrels with DoubleTap is the same...Both my Jarvis and 1911 show max head expansions with DoubleTap as .4290" (My Stock Glock barrels max at .4345 with DoubleTap)
With my Barsto 9X25 barrel, primers start to fall out at .4296+ and bulges start at .4230+...I am shooting for a load that AVERAGES about .4285 and NEVER goes above .4290

Glock 29 3.8" Barsto 9X25 Barrel. Headspace set to -.002" to allow for SOME dirtiness to the barrel.

Winchester formed brass (none of it new)
Rem 2 1/2 primers (Use caution with CCI-350s)
COL 1.285 (The longest that will fit in my Magazines)
Winchester 115 FMJ designed for the 9mm Luger. (Not optimal, but I have Thousands on hand...)
I worked HS-7 up from 11.8. It doesn't burn cleanly at the lower powder charges and I had some difficulty with unburnt powder preventing complete chambering. I had to push the slide forward to get full chambering.
14.9 grains HS-7 Lo=1599 Hi=1652 ES=53 A=1622 SD=20
15.1 grains HS-7 Lo=1614 Hi=1661 ES=47 A=1631 SD=25
15.3 grains HS-7 Lo=1626 Hi=1671 ES=45 A=1640 SD=18

8.8 grains AA#2I Lo=1409 Hi=1443 ES=34 A=1427 SD=11
8.5 grains Universal Clays (Raining the day I shot this, but head expansion max is .4290")

147 Silvertip:
10.0 grains VV n105 Lo=1191 Hi=1219 ES=28 A=1208 SD=11
10.3 grains VV n105 Lo=1220 Hi=1232 ES=12 A=1224 SD=6
10.6 grains VV n105 Lo=1235 Hi=1257 ES=22 A=1249 SD=8

This is the tip of the experiment for N105. Head expansion is nowhere NEAR .4290 This powder has the potential to match 800X. I have seen 800X-like velocities in 10mm.

spongeman66
03-22-2004, 10:23
Internal volumes of 9x25 @ 1.26 COL

bdc
03-25-2004, 11:39
9X25 Dillon performs better with: Longer barrels, slower powders, heavier bullets.

Grendelbane suggested using small rifle primers for their strength and support over the firing pin hole. This is probably a good idea, working up loads specifically with rifle primers, if your striker system can reliably fire them. It is not a new Idea, I knew competitors shooting 38 Super 30 years ago who where loading Blue Dot with rifle primers.

spongeman66
03-25-2004, 14:22
147 Winchester Silvertips in R-P formed Nickel Brass.
11.0 grains 800X ignited by Rem 2 1/2 primer.

swampmaster
04-01-2004, 03:51
WOW I like the looks of those silvertips Where can I get info on converting a gun to the 9x25 DIllon and dies and such

spongeman66
04-01-2004, 06:51
All you need is a barrel change for just about any 10mm chambered gun to shoot 9x25.
There is a Group Purchase going on right now. I don't know how far it has progressed, but you MAY be able to get in on it if you call MCNETT at DoubleTap TODAY! If you miss the GP, then contact Barsto directly, and your barrel will likely only cost about $15-$20 more than the GP price.
Dies are available Directly from Dillon.

Welcome!
Sponge

spongeman66
04-04-2004, 21:34
Got some time at the range Saturday.
Same gun, brass, COL, primer as above.

115 FMJ:
VV N105
wt LO HI ES Avg SD
13.6 1554 1577 23 1565 10
13.9 1581 1596 15 1586 6

VV 3n38
wt LO HI ES Avg SD
13.6 1606 1619 13 1614 5

3X shots each of Winchester 147 Silvertips:
VV N105
wt LO HI ES Avg SD
11.5 1344 1349 5 1346 2
11.7 1321 1372 51 1351 26

VV 3n38
wt LO HI ES Avg SD
10.8 1264 1303 39 1288 21

Just for fun, and to get a HEAVIER Bullet:
357 Magnum Lead Semi Wadcutter 158 grain
Seated to 1.240" because the design of the bullet required it for my barrel

158 PBSWC:
HS-7
wt LO HI ES Avg SD
10.0 1195 1234 39 1212 19
10.6 1267 1294 27 1280 13
10.9 1295 1323 28 1307 10


I need to revisit 800X and 147 grain bullets. I shot some 147 Gold Dots at 11.0 of 800X. I got good velocities (1449 Average), but the head expansions were more than any of the above loadings.

I have also backed down on my 115 FMJ & AA#2I from 9.0 to 8.8 because 10 rounds of 9.0 yielded one round slightly greater head expansion than I want. (9.0 = 1453 FPS average)

Stay Safe!
Sponge

bdc
04-06-2004, 15:02
You must have been reading my mind Sponge! Calculations and projections I have made concerning slow powders and short barrels during the past week indicates that the 158gr bullets are potentially second only to the 147gr overall, with PF numbers favoring the 158gr.

I had actually hoped that the light weight bullets would have been better to continue the bullet weight range compared to the 10mm. Longer barrels are the only way to achieve that.

The disappointment is that 10mm already has bullet weights in the 160gr range that will outperform 9x25 interior ballistics.

spongeman66
04-06-2004, 15:26
The increased friction of a longer bullet with more surface area rubbing against the barrel is one factor against smaller diameter bullets when compared to larger diameter bullets of the same weight.

Another thing that works against smaller diameter bullets is the smaller surface area of the base of the bullet. The .400 bullet has a .355 bullet beat by 27% in area of the base. Pressures (Pounds per square inch) being the same between 10mm and 9x25, The 9mm projectile has a significantly smaller area for the force to act upon. Thus, less total force is exerted on the smaller diameter bullet.

The expansion factor of the gasses will be less with smaller diameter bullets causing the possibility of a different pressure curve with a more sustained peak pressure is the one thing that might HELP.

The problem I encountered with the 158 grain bullets was the need to seat them deeper due to the design of the bullet and the design of the throat of my gun. A different bullet design might lend to a longer COL and more powder capacity....

Heck, the main reason I did it was to see if 9x25 really is comparable to .357 Mag. IT IS! I have looked up 158 SWC data on the web. My effective revolver length barrel is about 2.5" (Subtract the COL from 3.8"). The velocity of 1300 FPS with a 158 grain bullet is typically quoted for 4" to 6" long barrels in 357 Magnum!

Sponge

Washington,D.C.
04-06-2004, 23:25
Cal 9 x 25 DILLON

Diametro palla = .355" A1) Test su arma = A2) Test su arma =
Max lungh bossolo = 25,20 mm Lunghezza canna test = Lunghezza canna test =
Trimmare il bossolo a = 25,10 mm Passo rigatura = Passo rigatura =
Max lungh cartuccia = 31,80 mm


P a l l a Lungh cart Innesco P o l v e r e - P o w d e r Note
Bullet C.O.L. Primer M i n M a x
Grains Grammi Marca - tipo mm inch Marca e tipo Marca e tipo Grains Grammi Velocità Pressione Energia Grains Grammi Velocità Pressione Energia
100 6,48 Fiocchi FMJ TC 31,80 1,252 Fed 215 - LRM ACCURATE N°9 16,2 1,05 16,5 1,07
115 7,45 Winchester FMJ 32,20 1,268 Fed 215 - LRM ACCURATE N°9 14,3 0,93
115 7,45 Winchester FMJ 32,20 1,268 Fed 215 - LRM VIHTAVUORI N 110 15,1 0,98
115 7,45 Winchester FMJ HP 32,20 1,268 Fed 215 - LRM VIHTAVUORI N 110 15,1 0,98
124 8,04 Hornady FMJ FP 32,20 1,268 Fed 215 - LRM VIHTAVUORI N 110 14,2 0,92
124 8,04 Hornady FMJ FP 32,20 1,268 Fed 215 - LRM ACCURATE N°9 12.7 0,03
130 8,42 Hornady FMJ 32,20 1,268 Fed 215 - LRM VIHTAVUORI N 110 13,3 0,86
130 8,42 Hornady FMJ 32,20 1,268 Fed 215 - LRM ACCURATE N°9 11,9 0,77


Data from http://www.bordingl.com/z9x25.htm

spongeman66
04-07-2004, 07:34
DC, that data has no velocities. It seems like something that you would print out and take to the range and fill in...

I think N110 is a bit slow for 9x25. I have shot some H110, and it leaves my face gritty due to unburnt powder...AND doesn't produce very good velocities...
AA#9 should be similar to my H108. H108 produces a decent velocity but is also too slow and leaves unburnt powder...
In my opinion, you can't get enough of either powder in a 9x25 cartridge to cause overpressure problems...
Sponge

spongeman66
05-22-2004, 22:10
Loaded up some 9x25 with the WC820F HS-7 equivalent available from gibrass.com

Well used Winchester formed brass.
3.8" Barsto barrel in a G29
CCI-350 primers
COL 1.285"
~ 87F

All loads below produced at or less than my desired max head expansion. 5 shot groups.

95 FMJ
16.5 Lo=1766 Hi=1785 Es=19 Avg=1775 SD=7

115 FMJ
13.9 Lo=1468 Hi=1523 Es=55 Avg=1489 SD=22
14.2 Lo=1482 Hi=1518 Es=36 Avg=1504 SD=13

147 Gold Dot Hollow Point
12.1 Lo=1170 Hi=1294 Es=124 Avg=1261 SD=52
12.4 Lo=1321 Hi=1343 Es=22 Avg=1332 SD=8

Compare to an 800X workup:
115 FMJ
10.9 Lo=1495 Hi=1589 Es=94 Avg=1531 SD=41
11.3 Lo=1584 Hi=1626 Es=42 Avg=1605 SD=29


WC 820F matched my 800X load for 95 grain bullets, but it seems a touch too fast to produce top velocity in the heavier bullets.
I will try WC 820 PD next...

Stay safe!
Sponge

Seddo
06-24-2004, 00:03
has anyone tried to use any winchester powder with a 9x25???

shindawia6
07-05-2004, 12:11
anybody use universal powder with 125gr bullets?

spongeman66
07-24-2004, 22:54
My spreadsheet predicts somewhere between 7.8 and 8.2 as the absolute max of Universal Clays behind a 125 GDHP. I would start around 7.0 and work up in 0.2 grain increments until my head expansion was where I wanted it...
Universal Clays is a little fast for top performance in bullets heavier than 95 grains. It should prove to be a pretty good plinking powder though...
Stay Safe!
Sponge

Shred
07-27-2004, 16:12
Wow.. found this by accident from a Google search. I used to load 9x25 years ago for IPSC. Thus my loads top out around 180 PF and are from a 5" barreled STI.

115 JHP 16.1gr H108 ~1550 fps
124 Hornady JFP 15.1gr H108 went about 1460
124 JFP 9gr N105 - 934 fps. 11gr 1431 fps. 12.2gr 1580fps

I have some others using ~17gr H110 & 115's somewhere-- cases came out so clean they looked new.

Rumor has it Rob Leatham and Arnt Myhre at Dillon got some light .380 bullets up to 2000+fps, but accuracy was abysmal. Any better luck recently?

spongeman66
02-16-2005, 22:48
I gave up on WC820F from GIBRASS.com. I can't get it to burn clean enough, even with HOT Federal 155M primers...I wind up having to push the slide forward after about 8 rounds...WHAT am I going to do with 8lbs of this stuff??? Maybe I will work up a heavy field 12 gauge or 20 gauge load....

Did another Workup today with 95FMJ and VV 3N38. WOW!! This is an impressive powder with bullets lighter than 125 grains. 3N38 burns clean, and I didn't have any light strikes or slide not closing all the way.

52F
9x25, 95 FMJ, Remington 2 1/2 primers, COL 1.280", well used Winchester brass.
Velocities measured at 10 feet from muzzle of G29 with 3.8" barrel.

3N38 5 shot Average
14.0 1651 FPS
14.5 1690 FPS
15.0 1770 FPS
15.4 1809 FPS -> This load had less than my max expansion, but it is a cool day for TX, and I think my hot weather max is somewhere around 15.0-15.2.

Cases started to stick at 16.4...

This thread has been dead for a while...Anybody else doing load work ups???

Have fun!
Sponge

Seddo
02-17-2005, 21:59
spongeman66,
i built a 1911 instead of a glock. i have started but the powder i am using are made by ADI, most of them are sold in USA under different brands.

A friend has a glock and he has started loading 135-145gr projies. he is using a powder that is out of production by he has a lot left so this might not help you.

he also mentioned to me that the double tap brass had a 10% fail rate, in that the case cracked, compared to reformed winchester and pmc 10mm cases.

what brass are you using??

spongeman66
02-18-2005, 08:34
You are welcome to post your ADI 9x25 workups here! It would be interesting if you know the comparable powder in the US...

I use Winchester (Non-Nickel) Brass. I have had similar (split neck) failure rates with Remington Nickel Plated brass. I think the Nickel Plated stuff is strong, but too brittle to handle the re-forming for very many loading cycles. The Dillon dies are for forming, and really work the brass hard.
With Winchester brass, it takes several loadings to see head separation, or loose primers.
I would like to find some 10mm brass with SMALL primer pockets to see if my loose primer problem goes away...

I have a different purpose for 9x25 than some others. I shoot mine exclusively from my 3.8" G29 barrel. Concealed carry + velocity is what I seek...
If I were playing with 135+ grain bullets, I would stick with regular 10mm. I can actually get better velocity in similar bullet weights in 10mm compared to 9x25.

Good luck!
Sponge

Seddo
02-20-2005, 15:23
my purpose is a IPSC Open Gun. it is a 130mm barrel with 4 port comp. i had only started and realised the chamber was cut .003-.008 short, i was having trouble chambering rounds. i have to wait a few weeks for the gunsmith to get back from holidays as he is the only person in australia with a 9x25 reamer.

i have used 98gr coated lead with 2400, even found some 90gr FMJ's to play with. i will have to settle with 122gr coated lead or 124gr copper wash projies. when i get my gun back i will post all of my loads.

ADI equivalent powder is:
http://www.adi-limited.com/handloaders-guide/equivalents.asp

the reason my friend is using heavy projies is because we cant have calibres over 38 in australia.

spongeman66
04-08-2005, 00:17
If you reload 9x25 on 100% Dillon equipment, then I suppose this won't be of interest to you...

I quit using the 357 Sig die to pre-form my new 9x25 brass. I wasn't using any lube with this steel die, so it got scratched up. I also broke off (like head separation) a well used piece of brass in it, and sent it back to LEE to have them remove it. (BTW, I only sent them the sizer die, and they sent me back an ENTIRE set of 357 Sig Dies FREE...)

In the same order from Lee, I paid for a 9mm Factory crimp die SLEEVE. I put it in the 10mm FCD body, and it gives a good crimp that is MUCH easier to adjust than the Dillon Crimp die...This works very well, but, like the Dillon Crimp die, will buckle the case if too much crimp is applied. Pat Lee told me for short necked calibers they had a NEW way of doing the FCD more like the rifle calibers. I considered a custom one made, but decided to try the 9mm sleeve in the 10mm body first. Using the Dillon Sizer, I recognized that It doesn't size all the way down the brass, and I figured I might want to keep the 10mm Lee FCD to iron out any bulging in previously fired brass. I don't think the rifle-like FCD will do this...

I had a discussion with Pat Lee about how the Dillon Sizing/Forming Die narrows the neck too much, and the Lee 9mm expander has too short of a bearing surface. It was causing my 95 grain bullets to seat crooked and not be chamberable about 90% of the time. When I sent the sizer back, I included the 357 Sig expander and about 10 pieces of newly formed brass. They sent me back a 38 S & W Special expander that was longer and had been turned down to be appropriate for .355 bullets. (For FREE!) This new expander got me up to about a 90% success rate, but still about 1 in 10 NEW pieces of brass wouldn't chamber.

At this point, I considered selling my 9x25 stuff...NAH...

I was placing an order from Midway, so I included the Lyman M-Die for 9mm in the order. I had a 45ACP Lyman M-die body around, so I figured if the die body was too narrow, I could put the 9mm pilot in the 45 body and be OK. This was NOT necessary. The 9mm Lyman M-die body easily accepted the 10mm cartridge.

The long bearing surface of the Lyman M-Die pilot was EXACTLY what I needed!!! I am now up to 100% success with NEW brass!!! (Fired brass was never a problem...It was always newly formed brass that gave me trouble.)

The 5 station tool head for my LoadMaster has all 5 stations full, and has dies from 3 companies!
1st Station -> Dillon 9x25 sizing/forming die
2nd station -> Lyman M-die
3rd station -> Lee 357 Sig expander/powder die with 38 S & W custom expander
4th station -> Lee Unmodified bullet seating die set to provide NO crimp
5th station -> 10mm FCD body with 9mm FCD Sleeve.

Turns out 100% chamberable rounds with new brass!!! I am starting to feel like a Wildcat developer...

Hope this might help someone!
Sponge

Seddo
04-10-2005, 17:37
Spounge,

in the next few weeks i will be able to put up some more 9x25 reloads. I have just had my barrel reamed after final fitting to solve a few chambering issues. It is back in the country and should be back in my gun this week.

The few hundred reloads i have done with a dillon 550 and dillon 9x25 dies have been fine. i did have some early problems with getting enough bell on the case but a change in powder thrower fixed it straight away.

compared to my 38-45 the 9x25 seems easy to setup and reload.

shindawia6
07-16-2005, 17:27
anybody got some data that will give some nice muzzle flash using 124gr bullets?

spongeman66
07-17-2005, 22:22
95 grain bullets and just about any powder produce significant muzzle flash!
I have no experience w/124

Sponge

Apocalypse_Now
01-31-2006, 11:12
What about Blue Dot? It's my favorite .357 magnum powder and I don't like to stock new powder types if one I already use will work..!

Great info on this thread, guys. I'm going to get into this chambering in a M21/10MM longslide, and a M29 CCW combo caliber weapon. This looks like a perfect self defense caliber

Bullit Bill
09-11-2006, 13:44
Forgive me if this has been covered, I can't find this in a search.
If I understand correctly, the long loaded 357SIG has a standard case length and the bullet is seated out for a longer OAL, and the 9X25 Dillon essentially a 10MM necked down to take a 9MM bullet. Is the case shoulder and neck of the 9X25 the same as the SIG's? I had the idea of reaming a 357SIG chamber .120" deeper to make it the same OAL as a 10MM and shooting it from my G20L. Is there anywhere that has dimentional drawings of the 9X25?
Thanks for any help, Bullit Bill

spongeman66
11-08-2006, 14:59
357 sig has a straight taper, with angular transitions along the neck. Similar to 30-06, or most rifle cartridges.
The 9X25 has radiused corners along the shoulder. Similar to the weatherby magnums.

If you purchase a 357 Sig reamer, and ream your barrel, you will have a true wildcat! It will be very similar, if not better than the 9X25 in performance, but dies will be much cheaper! You would just need to experiment with your headspace when you form and reload your brass. To get it right, you won't be able to crank your 357 Sig dies all the way down...

What are you going to call it, the 357-10? 357 9X10? Sig mag? It would certainly keep up with any 357 Mag revolver using the same length barrel and bullets less than 160 grains...

Have fun!
Sponge

Bullit Bill
11-20-2006, 10:04
Spongeman, thanks for the info, I was going to call it the 357SIG magnum.:thumbsup:

warhoggie
04-06-2007, 22:59
Songeman66,
Thank you much for all the load data! There is more data listed here than hours of searching on the Internet. Good job!

_The_Shadow
04-19-2008, 21:36
Has anybody tried Blue Dot for the 9X25Dillon? If yes what loads were tested, please post some data!

tooouter
08-18-2008, 16:47
I've been working up a 9X25mm load with Powder Pistol. I'm shooting a G20 with a Lone Wolf 4.6" barrel. I'm currently up to 11.7 grains of Power Pistol set off by a CCI350 primer, pushing a 100 grain Hornady RN FMJ. OAL = 1.280"

The load averages (N=16) 1774 fps with a stdev of 18.66, min of 1753 max of 1811. Each fired case head measures .4205" without exception.

There is probably room for another grain or so of powder in the case. I'm going to go up a bit more but not by much as the brass isn't cheap. Hopefully I can get averages into the 1,800's safely.

_The_Shadow
08-18-2008, 20:11
tooouter (http://glocktalk.com/forums/member.php?u=92349), Thanks for posting the power pistol load and data! Seeing that you got those numbers with the 4.6" barrel will help me work with my S&W 1006 5" to see what differences might be. I notice my first shoots are the fastest till the oil from cleaning is gone.

I'll be shooting the 9X25 Dillon from my S&W 1006 with a Bar-Sto conversion match grade barrel I purchased from Mike McNett of Double Tap, I hand fitted it to the pistol but had to send it out to a gunsmith to have the chamber finish reamed to proper depth.

I have tested the S&W 1006 with the Bar-Sto 9X25 barrel, with DT 90/115/125 gr. GD 9X25 ammo and the pistol worked flawlessly. Velocities were not as high as advertised due to the 5" barrel I suppose.

I am going to work up some loads with Blue Dot too when I get my dies ordered and shipped in.

Thanks again!

tooouter
08-18-2008, 20:47
tooouter (http://glocktalk.com/forums/member.php?u=92349), Thanks for posting the power pistol load and data! Seeing that you got those numbers with the 4.6" barrel will help me work with my S&W 1006 5" to see what differences might be. I notice my first shoots are the fastest till the oil from cleaning is gone.

I'll be shooting the 9X25 Dillon from my S&W 1006 with a Bar-Sto conversion match grade barrel I purchased from Mike McNett of Double Tap, I hand fitted it to the pistol but had to send it out to a gunsmith to have the chamber finish reamed to proper depth.

I have tested the S&W 1006 with the Bar-Sto 9X25 barrel, with DT 90/115/125 gr. GD 9X25 ammo and the pistol worked flawlessly. Velocities were not as high as advertised due to the 5" barrel I suppose.

I am going to work up some loads with Blue Dot too when I get my dies ordered and shipped in.

Thanks again!

You're very welcome! A S&W 1006 in 9X25 is an awesome rig! I can't wait to hear how your loads do, please do post 'em when you got the data. I love the 10mm, .357 Sig and now I'm sold on the 9X25.

Now that I've got the 9X25 bug, I'm tore between my next purchase of a 1006 or a Dan Wesson 10mm 1911 converted to 9x25.

I'm very pleased with Power Pistol, I'm thinking 1850 averages are safely attainable out of the G20. I only paid $88 for the barrel, so I'm into 9X25 on the cheap. For the money, I can't believe how well the Lone Wolf barrel is, it locks up tighter than stock and the chamber is very noticeably tighter while I haven't had a single malfunction with a few hundred rounds through it.

I did make some additions to the G20 that I really didn't need to, I bought a Wolf stainless guide rod and a "calibration pack" of recoil springs. I've only ran the stock weight 17 lb spring & haven't had any issues. I also added adjustable night sights but haven't noticed a big enough difference in POI between the 180 grn 10mm rounds and 95 & 100 grn 9X25 rounds to warrant the need for adjustables.

Power Pistol burns incredibly clean in this application & with my barrel length, I've yet to find anybody getting the velocities I'm seeing. I'm curious how Blue Dot compares in terms of velocity and cleanliness, please let me know so we can compare notes.

Are you getting the Dillon dies? I'm using Doubletap brass with a Hornady .357 Sig size die, then running it through an additional Hornady 10mm size die to size the last (or first) 3.6mm of the case. I don't run the .357 Sig die down far enough to entirely re-profile the neck down radius in order to not mess with head spacing. So far it's working perfectly. Since I already reload .357 Sig and 10mm I didn't have to buy any additional dies and won't as long as the brass keeps holding up.

Let me know how your experiment goes.

_The_Shadow
08-18-2008, 22:05
tooouter (http://glocktalk.com/forums/member.php?u=92349), here is a tidbit for you, Don't purchase a S&W 10XX thinking about getting extra barrels. The Bar-Sto 9X25 Dillon barrel was made early on via special order by Mike McNett for the S&W1006. Bar-Sto is NOT producing any barrels for the S&W10xx pistols and neither is any other manufacture, that's a damn shame.

I have considered the 9X25 Lone Wolf barrel for my Glock 29 in the near future. I would like it longer than stock without the ports, Their longer barrel has ports maybe I could get one without.

Yes I will pop for the Dillon dies ($125+ S/H) as they are dimensioned correctly for the shoulder and have two carbide sizing rings from what I was told, one for the 9mm neck the other for the 10mm base.

You may be better off with a FUSION Arms 10mm with a conversion barrel possibly.

Yes recent testing of Power Pistol in my Glock 29 has shown better velocities with the 200XTP than with Blue Dot loads. IMR 800X and AA#9 are some powders I wish to obtain.

Here are some scans of the "Lyman 2nd edition Pistol & Revolver Reloading Handbook" 9X25 Dillon cartridge info, be sure to note that the test barrels were 8" for this data and there is no SAAMI Pressure set for this cartridge

http://i297.photobucket.com/albums/mm223/gw-van/scan0004.jpg

http://i297.photobucket.com/albums/mm223/gw-van/scan0005.jpg

Good to see others interested in the caliber still.

_The_Shadow
10-22-2008, 20:26
I just got my Dillon dies for the 9X25, these dies will size the 10mm casing and reduce the neck down to 9mm in one sizing/depriming pass.

This comes as a 3 die set; The Case Sizer/Forming/Depriming Die, a Seating Die and a Crimp Die.

The seating die has a rounded nose and a flat nose bullet seater which you pull the pin and turn it over, re pin it and its set for the other.

The Crimp die is just that to finish the crimp process.

There is "NO" expander included with the dies, this may be part of a special powder through the expander die set up with the powder hopper. I'm not using this at this time because I am working on a single stage RCBS press for now. I dug out my 9mm RCBS die set and I am using the expander die in that set to expand the case mouths to accept the bullets (jacketed and cast), this has provided a very true straight neck with proper tension.

After I expanded the case mouths the seating process was good to go! My first attempt without expansion resulted in the cast bullet grabbing the case mouth and buckling...I new better, but I was studying how the Dillon Dies would perform. That why I grabbed the 9mm expander die.

One other thing I will do is to get the RCBS type die locking rings to lock them on the die so the setting doesn't change while using and removing them in the single stage presses. This is not a problem in the Dillon press as the dies stay in the tool head, and the nut will secure it.

After I assembled them they dropped into the barrel and head spaced properly.

Anyway here are the first few loaded with LEE 122gr Cast TC .356" over 11.0 grains of Blue Dot. This load in the 357Sig with a 125GD does 1416 fps.
159457
Now I have to get to the range for some actual results.


More to come!:milestone:

mikeone
12-07-2008, 01:11
I just started loading this cartridge and what a blast it is. Just shot my first 100

win brass 124 precision "black bullets" 14 gr h110.

lone wolf glock 20.

I can see that the shoulder moved forward thus needing precise adj of the

forming die to to fit the barrel.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bPQbl9ao7TE

Yea this cartridge is on fire:steamed:

thanks Mike

_The_Shadow
04-01-2009, 18:31
Went to the range finally and was a little disappointed. These are the results of the loads fired from the S&W 1006 with the Bar-Sto 5" 9X25 Dillon conversion.

I too might need to do some die adjusting as it appeared the shoulder moved forward some.

Shot over a CHRONY 8' to the first screen.

9X25 Dillon April 1, 2009
15’ above sea level, 70°
ZERO 121 gr 0.0356” JHP
H-110 14.2 grains
Winchester LP primer

Shot # velocity
1 1157 fps
2 1169 fps…High
3 1135 fps…Low
4 1146 fps
Adv…1152 fps
ES…33.24
SD…14.59
A little disappointed with this loading, needs more development.
Blue Dot will be my next work up.


9X25 Dillon April 1, 2009
15’ above sea level, 70°
LEE 122 grain Cast TC
Blue Dot 11.0grains
Winchester LP primer

Shot # velocity
1 1314 fps
2 1334 fps
3 1367 fps…High
4 1308 fps…Low
5 1323 fps
6 1352 fps
7 1347 fps
8 1350 fps
9 1355 fps
Adv…1339 fps
ES…58.69
SD…20.17
This load was starting load for 357 Sig 125gr for 1416 fps, I think there is room for improvement.

GLOCKG21
04-30-2009, 16:21
I just got a lee 2-cavity bullet mold (124gr tc tumble lube)and casted some.i put them on my rcbs scale and they ranged from 129gr to 131gr.so i should use 10.5 of aa#9 for a start load?.lee molds seem to be a little on the heavy side
Ken

_The_Shadow
04-30-2009, 20:24
According to the Lyman data with the 130 gr cast bullet shows start at 10.5 gr starting load and 12.0 as the max of AA9. BTW do you have the Lyman data?

I need to get to the range to test again, now that I have the cases sized correctly.
I'll be testing Power Pistol, Blue Dot, H-110 and AA9.

Please post your report on how yours did. Good luck to you!

GLOCKG21
05-01-2009, 04:44
yes,i have the lyman data.i am waiting for my barrel to come.will the bullet weights make alot difference in accuracy?

_The_Shadow
05-01-2009, 08:37
Remember the Lyman Data was based on 8" test barrels, I only have a 5" barrel. I have asked JR of Lone Wolf about getting the longer barrel for my G-29 without the ports cut into the barrel, but he said the ports are cut early on in the machineing process. I rather not hae the ports jetting the flash and unburned powders into my line of site.

The bullet's diameter will be the thing which will affect accuracy the most. 0.356" will be better than 0.355", some people like 0.357" to fill the bore...Cast bullets shoot better and lead less usually at 0.002" over the bore diameter. Therefore measuring the bore is important, slugging the barrel is the only way to know for sure.

I found the lighter bullets(90-95 grain) didn't shoot as straight, the 115 grain & up worked better.

Be aware of the sizing of the die, you can't just run it down to the shellholder, you need to adjust so it only sizes the brass down enough to fit the chamber correctly. I originally over sized the brass(used 10mm) with the Dillon sizing die. The new brass from Double Tap is sized correctly to start. You can use the barrel for the cartridge gage.

Good luck!

GLOCKG21
05-05-2009, 08:03
has anybody used longshot yet?
Ken

_The_Shadow
06-29-2009, 19:06
Well I went and tested June 27th, it was extremely hot, had to constanly towel off.
There was no data for Blue Dot or Power Pistol for the 9x25Dillon, but I worked these up from 357Sig loads.
But here are the results...

9X25 Dillon June 27, 2009 test
S&W 1006 with Bar-Sto barrel w/22# Wolff Recoil Spring
Temps 99 ° HOT!

Lyman 130.0 gr Soft Cast Devastator HP 0.356” 1.255”
Blue Dot 11.2 gr Winchester LP
Velocity 1342-1367 fps
Primers flatten some, little smear, leading light

Lyman 128.0 gr Soft Cast Devastator HP 0.356” 1.255”
Blue Dot 11.2 gr Winchester LP
Velocity 1343-1373 fps
Primers flat some, little smear, leading light

Zero 121.0 gr JHP 0.356” 1.255”
H-110 14.4 gr CCI 350
Velocity 1280-1335 fps
Primers flat some, little smear

Zero 121.0 gr JHP 0.356” 1.255”
Blue Dot 12.2 gr CCI 350
Velocity 1405-1438 fps
Primers flat some, lot of smear

Zero 121.0 gr JHP 0.356” 1.255”
Power Pistol 10.2 gr CCI 350
Velocity 1592-1620 fps
Primers flat, lot of smear

LEE 122.0 gr Hard Cast TC 0.356” 1.255”
Blue Dot 11.0 gr Winchester LP
Velocity 1340-1525 fps
Primers flat some, little smear, leading very light


For some reason the area around the firing pin strike was being wiped against the breech face, in one of the incident enough primer metal sheared to obstruct the firing pin. This caused one round not to fire, I dropped the magazine out, cleared the chamber, inserted an empty magazine so I could dry fire the pistol pointing downward, this cleared the obstructed fiing pin hole. All other rounds fired without incident.

Readings taken with CHRONY Master F1 @ 8' from first screen.

I have been looking into the Primer Smear situation a little more, it is only the middle area which flatten and is being rubbed hard against the breech face on ejection, the outer area of the primers are still rounded and the cases are not swollen or disfigured. However the firing pin dent is being flattened and smeared with some. These were well used 10mm cases sized to 9x25Dillon and head spaced to be tight to the breech face less than 0.002" free play.

This maybe a result of head spacing and timing, using the 9x25 Dillon barrel in the S&W 1006 pistol. I am using this setup with the Wolff #22 recoil spring and ejection is only 3' or 4' with these loads I have tested. This is less than that of the 10mm loads and 40s&w load case ejections with the same set up.

I suppose because of the necked down case the huge volume of gas, ejection timing is off. The recoil is not bad with the loads, the ejection timing is something I considered. Remember I did the barrel fitting to the slide and frame but the fit looks & feels right. Function was good with Double Tap Ammo at even higher velocities with out any primer wipe. I don't know what powder he uses for the factory loadings(probably only avalible to commercial loaders), but it is very silvery looking(almost chrome color) and looks to be a dense flattened ball grannuel about the diameter of Blue Dot flakes. This leads me to think temps being too HOT and the magnum primer use. The S&W 1006 stock spring is 18lb, I run the 22 lb spring for the higher impulse 10mm loadings and it functions well even with the 40S&W loadings.

I will test the loads with the 20lb and 24lb springs to see if there is a difference in the cycles. Also will test various primer/powder combinations to see if things change for better or worse. This is what makes handloading fun, I don't have to have the fastest bullets, but I want good reliability, function & accuracy. This is why I play this game of handloading.

I may drop a line on Mike McNett at DT just to see if he can shed any light on my situation.

mikeone
10-15-2009, 10:07
Ive just started playing with the 180 XTP .357 bullet

And 1200+ is easy with my g-20 length barrel.

The brass looks fine this load really is cool.

Mike

_The_Shadow
10-26-2009, 22:08
Mike I'd like to hear about the load data for this combination, if you don't wish to post it here please PM me with the info.

Thanks, The Shadow

Gun-adian
11-11-2009, 21:35
Hey Everyone.....

First post, so here goes.

Picked up my almost new G-20C and immediately replaced the factory barrel with a Lone Wolf stock length barrel. As an afterthought, I also ordered a 6 inch 9x25 Dillon. WOW!!! Great toy!!!

I've only put a couple recipes of 9x25 through it using W296 and Blue Dot with a variety of bullet weights.

This is what I've got so far:

Speer 115 gr. Gold Dot HP.
CCI #300 primers
5 shot strings

11.5 Gr. Blue Dot
Velocity:
1) 1527 fps
2) 1502 fps
3) 1555 fps
4) 1486 fps
5) error

12 Gr. Blue Dot
Velocity:
1) 1581 fps
2) 1592 fps
3) error
4) error
5) 1550 fps

Happy with these results for the most part. Time for a new battery in the Chrony.....
___________________________________

Hornady 147 gr. JHP-XTP.
CCI #300 primers
5 shot strings

8.5 gr. Blue Dot
Velocity:
1) 1197 fps
2) 1124 fps
3) 1178 fps
4) 1201 fps
5) 1192 fps

9 gr. Blue Dot
Velocity:
1) 1304 fps
2) 1270 fps
3) 1267 fps
4) 1297 fps
5) 1299 fps

These are just over the max load for .357 SIG. I used that as a start point.
___________________________________

Bulk 147 gr. cast lead flat point
CCI #300 primers
5 shot string

9 gr. Blue Dot
Velocity:
1) 1252 fps
2) 1254 fps
3) 1229 fps
4) 1186 fps
5) 1236 fps

I figured these would be faster than the JHP's of the same weight. Shows you what I know. No leading though!!!
___________________________________

Random bulk 124 gr. FMJ
CCI #300 primers
5 shot strings

14.5 gr. Winchester 296
Velocity:
1) 1359 fps
2) 1226 fps
3) 1274 fps
4) 1288 fps
5) 1247 fps

15 gr. Winchester 296
Velocity:
1) 1365 fps
2) 1461 fps
3) 1385 fps
4) error
5) 1451 fps

Not too impressed with these. The first string was all over the velocity map. The second string tightened up a bit. Maybe a slightly heavier charge and/or a magnum primer next time???? (stupid battery!!!!!)
___________________________________

All the loads functioned perfectly. No ftf's or fte's. No mashed primers.

Judging by what I've seen here and found elsewhere on the 'net, I think I have some wiggle room with some of these loads.

Any helpful advice or comments would be greatly appreciated.

I got some 90 gr. JHP's kicking around. I really what to try these out!!!!
Lighting one of these off would be an experience. Any ideas for a start load???

Thanks Everyone.

Mike.

Lest we forget.

Gun-adian
03-04-2010, 14:23
Hey again, everyone.

I made a second trip to the range to wring out more of my 6 inch 9x25 Glock 20. I Put together quite a few rounds with various bullet weights ranging from 90 grain 9mm bullets up to 158 grain JHP's for the .357 Mag.

Unfortunately, my chronograph suffered a fatal malfunction. (Okay...I shot the damn thing!! There, I admitted it. Happy now??)

Obviously, I wasn't going to do any velocity testing so I had to settle for function tests. I'm happy to report that all rounds in all bullet weights functioned perfectly. No stoppages of any kind.

Not counting the dead Chrony, I was quite pleased with the results, so far.

Lighting these things off really drew a lot of attention. Awesome muzzle blast!!! It would rattle the roof of the shooting shed.

Fast forward three weeks......

Here's my third outing with the 9x25 Dillon. It was a nice Friday and I didn't feel like staying home and watching the Olympics. The weather was clear and sunny , around 15 C (60 F). (Whose idea was it to have the Winter Olympics here anyway?).

So with spare Chrony in hand, off I went.

These velocities are in order of bullet weight.

(???) means "WTF???"

Sierra 90 gr. JHP (.355 dia.)
Winchester WLP primers
5 shot strings

12.5 gr. Blue Dot
Velocity (fps):
1) 1847
2) 1685 (???)
3) 1785
4) 1820
5) 1822
Extreme Spread : 162

13.0 gr. Blue Dot
Velocity (fps):
1) 1886
2) 1876
3) 1826
4) 1861
5) 1841
Extreme Spread : 60

13.5 gr. Blue Dot
Velocity (fps):
1) 1832
2) 1871
3) 1844
4) 1836
5) 1910
Extreme Spread : 78

14.0 gr. Blue Dot
Velocity (fps) :
1) 1939
2) 1886
3) 1895
4) 1973
5) 1904
Extreme Spread : 87

14.5 gr. Blue Dot
Velocity (fps)
1) 1943
2) 1894
3) 1929
4) error
5) 1927
Extreme Spread : 49

Lots of flash and "BOOM" with these. Really moving!!!
_____________________________________________________________________________________

Speer 110 gr. Gold Dot HP (.357 dia.)
Winchester WLP primers
5 shot strings

14.5 gr. H-110
Velocity (fps)
1) 1348
2) 1342
3) 1266
4) 1341
5) 1308
Extreme Spread : 82

15.0 gr. H-110
Velocity (fps)
1) 1478
2) 1407
3) 1395
4) 1389
5) 1383
Extreme Spread : 95

15.5 gr. H-110
Velocity (fps)
1) 1418
2) 1470
3) 1487
4) 1386
5) 1434
Extreme Spread : 101

16.0 gr. H-110
Velocity (fps)
1) 1459
2) 1463
3) 1480
4) 1412
5) 1433
Extreme Spread : 68

16.5 gr. H-110
Velocity (fps)
1) 1506
2) 1450
3) 1484
4) 1439
5) 1464
Extreme Spread : 67

The last two strings look more consistent. Higher charge weight??
_____________________________________________________________________________________


Speer 110 gr. Gold Dot HP (.357 dia.)
CCI #300 primers
5 shot strings

11.5 gr. Blue Dot
Velocity (fps)
1) 1565
2) 1521
3) 1555
4) 1600
5) 1524
Extreme Spread : 79

12.0 gr. Blue Dot
Velocity (fps)
1) 1607
2) 1576
3) 1552
4) 1550
5) 1650
Extreme Spread : 100

12.5 gr. Blue Dot
Velocity (fps)
1) 1601
2) error
3) 1648
4) 1635
5) 1638
Extreme Spread : 47

13.0 gr. Blue Dot
Velocity (fps)
1) 1593 (???)
2) 1579 (???)
3) 1717
4) 1679
5) 1705
Extreme Spread : 126

The 12.5 gr. charge looks the best in this batch. I don't know what the deal is with the 13.0 gr. charge.
_____________________________________________________________________________________

Sierra 115 gr. JHP (.355 dia.)
Winchester WLP primers
5 shot strings

11.5 gr. Blue Dot
Velocity (fps)
1) 1611
2) 1562
3) 1607
4) 1561
5) 1593
Extreme Spread : 50

12.0 gr. Blue Dot
Velocity (fps)
1) 1648
2) 1651
3) 1604
4) 1641
5) 1609
Extreme Spread : 47

13.0 gr. Blue Dot
Velocity (fps)
1) 1735
2) 1700
3) 1689
4) 1696
5) 1672
Extreme Spread : 63
_____________________________________________________________________________________

I couldn't test any of the 158 grain .357 JHP's because I blew them all off last time. I'll make up some more for the next time around. Stay tuned.

Again, I had no stoppages during this batch of testing. I can't fault the rounds reliability....at least from my perspective. Both powders used burned very cleanly. The empty brass was bordering on spotless.

One thing I did notice, though.....My Glock did not seem to fling the empty brass that far away. When I shoot 10mm out of this thing, it really goes for distance. I'm guessing that the longer barrel and smaller bore add more weight on the top end and keep the slide velocity down.

Feel free to comment (and check my math). I still learning.

Thanks.

Mike.

P.S....The spare Chrony survived!!!!!!

whenmonkeysfly
03-04-2010, 14:47
Gun-adian,

Thanks for the data and sorry 'bout your chrony - I'm expecting to shoot mine sometime in the near future too... just a matter of when. :)

I'm waiting on my right elbow to heal from surgery. Got some 95 grain 9x25 from Mike and can't wait to shoot some of them through the chrony (hopefully) and down the range.

Please keep the data coming! I'll share when I get the press and the arm workin' again!

-Jay

_The_Shadow
05-12-2010, 20:04
I sent an e-mail to Ramshot Powders today inquiring about SILHOUETTE powder and this was sent back to me within an hour today. I will be picking up some of this powder to try soon.

Caliber: 9mmx25 Dillon.
Barrel length: 6”
Powder: Ramshot –- SILHOUETTE®.
Bullet weight: 115 grains.
Start load: 9.0 grains (1275 – 1350 ft/p/sec)
Maximum load: 10.0 grains (1425 – 1500 Ft/p/sec).
Bullet weight: 124 grains.
Start load: 8.5 grains (1225 – 1275 ft/p/sec)
Maximum load: 9.5 grains (1300 – 1400 Ft/p/sec).
Bullet weight: 147 grains.
Start load: 7.5 grains (1100- 1175 ft/p/sec)
Maximum load: 8.5 grains (1225 – 1275 Ft/p/sec).
NOTES:
It’ important to note that SAFETY is our prime concern therefore we strongly recommend.
1.TO ALWAYS BEGIN LOADING AT THE RECOMMENDED MINIMUM “START” LOAD and develop loads in 2% increments towards the MAXIMUM load.
2.CAUTION: Beware of double charging if the loading density is below 50% of the available volume.
3.If possible, measure the velocity and correlate with our data.

Regards
Johan Loubser
Ballistician
Ramshot.Accurate Powders
Tel: 406.234.0422 email: johan@ramshot.com
WesternPowdersInc.Miles City.Montana.
COMPANY WEBSITES/PRODUCTS:
www.ramshot.com (http://www.ramshot.com/)
www.accuratepowder.com (http://www.accuratepowder.com/)
www.montanaxtreme.com (http://www.montanaxtreme.com/)
www.blackhorn209.com (http://www.blackhorn209.com/)

Western Powders Inc. disclaims all possible liability for damages including, actual, incidental and consequential, resulting from usage of the information or advice contained in this message.
Use the data and advice at your own risk, and with extreme caution.
IMPORTANT NOTE: Allways begin loading from the minimum "START charge and carefully develop loads by increasing in small increments of 2% towards the Maximum load.
DISCLAIMER:
This communication is confidential and may be legally privileged. If you are not the intended recipient,
(i) please do not read or disclose to others, (ii) please notify the sender by reply mail, and (iii) please
delete this communication from your system. Failure to follow this process may be unlawful. Thank you for your cooperation

I don't know if any of you all have tried this powder for this application but I am going to work with it to check its performance for the 9X25 Dillon.

Gun-adian
05-21-2010, 12:30
Hey Gang...here we go again.

I had time for a quick trip to the range last week with more 9x25 loads. I used the Speer 110 Gr. GDHP and Hornady 90 Gr. XTP for this run. This is the first outing with the Hornady XTP. The Speer bullet I've used before, but I pushed it a little harder this time.

The targets were at 25 yards and the Chrony was at about 3 yards.

Speer 110 gr. Gold Dot HP (.357 dia.)
CCI #300 Primers
5 Shot Strings

12.5 gr. Blue Dot
Velocity (fps)
1) 1627
2) 1691
3) 1697
4) 1689
5) 1710
Extreme Spread : 83

13 gr. Blue Dot
Velocity (fps)
1) 1733
2) 1729
3) 1731
4) 1710
5) 1737
Extreme Spread : 27

13.5 gr. Blue Dot
Velocity (fps)
1) 1764
2) 1744
3) 1794
4) 1752
5) 1777
Extreme Spread : 50

14 gr. Blue Dot
Velocity (fps)
1) 1816
2) 1843
3) 1819
4) 1852
5) 1798
Extreme Spread : 54

14.5 gr. Blue Dot
Velocity (fps)
1) 1871
2) 1877
3) 1863
4) 1866
5) 1850
Extreme Spread : 27

I'm happy with the consistancies of the 13 gr. and 14.5 gr. loads. All loads gave 100% functioning.

________________________________________________________________________


Hornady 90gr. XTP (.355 dia.)
CCI #300 Primers
5 Shot Strings

13.5 gr. Blue Dot
Velocity (fps)
1) 1888
2) 1801
3) 1855
4) 1799
5) 1897
Extreme Spread : 98

14 gr. Blue Dot
Velocity (fps)
1) 1933
2) 1914
3) 1755 (???)
4) 1826 (???)
5) 1869
Extreme Spread : 178

14.5 gr. Blue Dot
Velocity (fps)
1) 1887
2) 1940
3) 1922
4) 1889
5) 1933
Extreme Spread : 53

15 gr. Blue Dot
Velocity (fps)
1) 1979
2) 1898
3) 1937
4) 1999
5) 1966
Extreme Spread : 101

15.5 gr. Blue Dot
Velocity (fps)
1) 1964
2) 2016
3) 2036
4) 1974
5) 1953
Extreme Spread : 83

No malfunctions of any kind.

The last load hit 2000 FPS!!!!! It was also accurate. See pics.

I found the XTP's to be more accurate than the GDHP's. Again, see pics below.
________________________________________________________________________

I've got some 158 gr. JHP's loaded up and ready to go. I just need time to shoot them. Stay tuned.

That's all I've got for now. As always, suggestions and comments are most welcome.

Thanks.

Mike.

whenmonkeysfly
05-21-2010, 12:52
Hey Gang...here we go again.

I had time for a quick trip to the range last week with more 9x25 loads. I used the Speer 110 Gr. GDHP and Hornady 90 Gr. XTP for this run. This is the first outing with the Hornady XTP. The Speer bullet I've used before, but I pushed it a little harder this time.

The targets were at 25 yards and the Chrony was at about 3 yards.

Speer 110 gr. Gold Dot HP (.357 dia.)
CCI #300 Primers
5 Shot Strings

12.5 gr. Blue Dot
Velocity (fps)
1) 1627
2) 1691
3) 1697
4) 1689
5) 1710
Extreme Spread : 83

13 gr. Blue Dot
Velocity (fps)
1) 1733
2) 1729
3) 1731
4) 1710
5) 1737
Extreme Spread : 27

13.5 gr. Blue Dot
Velocity (fps)
1) 1764
2) 1744
3) 1794
4) 1752
5) 1777
Extreme Spread : 50

14 gr. Blue Dot
Velocity (fps)
1) 1816
2) 1843
3) 1819
4) 1852
5) 1798
Extreme Spread : 54

14.5 gr. Blue Dot
Velocity (fps)
1) 1871
2) 1877
3) 1863
4) 1866
5) 1850
Extreme Spread : 27

I'm happy with the consistancies of the 13 gr. and 14.5 gr. loads. All loads gave 100% functioning.

________________________________________________________________________


Hornady 90gr. XTP (.355 dia.)
CCI #300 Primers
5 Shot Strings

13.5 gr. Blue Dot
Velocity (fps)
1) 1888
2) 1801
3) 1855
4) 1799
5) 1897
Extreme Spread : 98

14 gr. Blue Dot
Velocity (fps)
1) 1933
2) 1914
3) 1755 (???)
4) 1826 (???)
5) 1869
Extreme Spread : 178

14.5 gr. Blue Dot
Velocity (fps)
1) 1887
2) 1940
3) 1922
4) 1889
5) 1933
Extreme Spread : 53

15 gr. Blue Dot
Velocity (fps)
1) 1979
2) 1898
3) 1937
4) 1999
5) 1966
Extreme Spread : 101

15.5 gr. Blue Dot
Velocity (fps)
1) 1964
2) 2016
3) 2036
4) 1974
5) 1953
Extreme Spread : 83

No malfunctions of any kind.

The last load hit 2000 FPS!!!!! It was also accurate. See pics.

I found the XTP's to be more accurate than the GDHP's. Again, see pics below.
________________________________________________________________________

I've got some 158 gr. JHP's loaded up and ready to go. I just need time to shoot them. Stay tuned.

That's all I've got for now. As always, suggestions and comments are most welcome.

Thanks.

Mike.

Thanks Mike! Sweet data/information! What kind of guide rod and guide rod (weight) spring are you using?

-Jay

_The_Shadow
05-21-2010, 13:39
Even though the barrel on my S&W1006 is 5", that longer barrel does make a big difference with this cartridge. I have some rounds loaded that I am going to test in the near future, I'll post when I can.

Thanks for posting!

Gun-adian
05-21-2010, 14:10
Jay - It's a factory weight spring (17 lbs. I think) captured on a stainless steel guide rod. I got it from the Glock Store. I wanted to try the factory weight spring before I upgrade to the heavier ones. It's working okay so far.

Shadow.....Yes please, post any new info you can get. It's your data that got me started down the 9x25 road.

Thanks guys.

Mike.

Angry Fist
05-21-2010, 14:25
T'zagged.... :supergrin:

_The_Shadow
05-21-2010, 15:18
Shadow.....Yes please, post any new info you can get. It's your data that got me started down the 9x25 road.

Mike.

Sorry about that...I is a wicked little round.
How were your primers? Did they start to flatten any? Some? Alot? Mashed Flat?
How was the casings? Extraction? Expanded? Any Split?

I wish I knew what the powder is that DT McNett is using...I e-mailed him to ask but he probably will never say or it is "Commercial Only" stock.

I'm hoping after I recieve my VLTOR Bren Ten, I e-mailed Eric Kinkel and asked about producing some 9x25Dillon conversion barrels and others for it. He said that we think alike and it was a possibility.
The first step will be if we ever see the guns...

Wade

Gun-adian
05-22-2010, 01:35
Wade, here are some pics of the fired brass. I hope this helps.

Mike.

whenmonkeysfly
05-22-2010, 08:52
Mike,

You got me fired-up on the Dillon 9x25 again. I've got some 90FMJ's from Mike McNett and I think some 115's. I'm going to chronograph. What a great, fun cartridge! I've also got plenty of Blue Dot, sized 9x25 Dillon nickel plated brass and CCI 300 Primers... but, I don't have any jacketed 9mm bullets. I've got some Rainer plated, but those won't work at those speeds. I'm off next week... I'll post some data on a couple of Mike McNett's 9x25's next week. Thanks man!

-Jay

Taterhead
05-22-2010, 21:41
Wade, here are some pics of the fired brass. I hope this helps.

Mike.

Can't see anything wrong with those. :supergrin:

Crap. Am I going to have to start exploring the "9mm super magnum?" Oh the intrigue!

Thanks for posting those pics and load data.

Meathead9
07-18-2010, 16:16
I just got my 9x25 Dillon dies, and a couple pounds of Blue Dot & Longshot to play with. I am definitely going to load up some 90gr & 115gr XTP's with Blue Dot, but has anyone loaded 9x25 Dillon with Longshot?

_The_Shadow
07-18-2010, 16:57
Meathead9, I have no experience with LongShot, and no data to assist you, Sorry!

You will be working sort of on your own, like I did with the Blue Dot when I first started with this caliber/cartridge. If you use this powder, Start low and work up slowly...

Hodgdon site does have some 357Sig Data which looks nice and should provide a starting place for you to play with for the 9x25Dillon with various bullet weights.

Good luck, best regards!

Meathead9
08-17-2010, 20:42
I finally have some Longshot data for the 9x25 Dillon. I started @ 11.5gr for a 90gr XTP, since 10.0gr is Hodgdon's listed max for a .357sig 115gr JHP. I have to admit I think it was a little aggressive for a starting point, but I haven't had any pressure signs yet.

Here's what I have so far:

Sea Level, 88* F
6.02" LWD Barrel
Wolff 22# Spring
1.26 OAL
CCI300 Primers
Hodgdon Longshot
9x25 Dillon Die sized Starline Brass

11.5gr Longshot/ CCI300
1864
1910
1853
1848
1861
Average: 1867
ES: 62

12.0gr Longshot/ CCI300
1928
1926
1918
1922
1910
Average: 1920
ES: 18

12.5gr Longshot/ CCI300
1997
1932
1937
1994
1973
Average: 1967
ES: 65

I am really happy with Longshot so far. With an average of 1920, and an ES of 18, who could complain? These loads are LOUD! The range I go to is outdoors, and the office is about 50yds away. The girl came out of the office to tell me to stop shooting a Rifle on the Pistol range, but got really confused when all she saw was me and my G20L.


____________________________________________________________________________________
 


I also loaded up the Blue Dot loads for 90gr XTP's that "Gun-adian" posted earlier this year. I worked up from 13.5gr to 15.0gr (indoors) before I had my chrony, with no pressure signs. This time I started @ 14.5gr and worked up to 15.5gr. I'm a little disapointed with my results compared to Gun-adian's, but I'm not giving up on Blue Dot. I think I'll try WLP's, and I may experiment with the OAL. The muzzle flash alone is enough to keep me coming back. Anything above 14.5gr indoors produces the biggest fireball that I have personally seen out of a handgun.

14.5gr Blue Dot/ CCI300
Average: 1824fps
ES: 44

15.0gr Blue Dot/ CCI300
Average: 1820fps
ES: 29

15.5gr Blue Dot/CCI300
Average: 1846fps
ES: 53

whenmonkeysfly
08-18-2010, 05:49
Thanks for the data Meathead9. I'm waiting for the weather to cool down here in Florida... humidity is killer this time of year. :faint: I've got plenty of Blue Dot on hand, but no Longshot.

_The_Shadow
08-18-2010, 18:53
Thanks, Meathead!

WhenMonkeysFly...I'm with you we have been very hot & moist here in Louisiana...can't hardly wait to get some cooler & drier weather to be able to shoot without the sweat runnig over the grips, dripping on the pages of notes while gathering chrono data.

Meathead9
08-25-2010, 14:17
Here’s some more 9x25 Dillon Load Data using Longshot, with WLP's & CCI350's this time.

Sea Level, 85* F
6" LWD Barrel
Wolff 22# Spring
1.26 OAL
9x25 Dillon Die sized Starline Brass
90gr XTP

11.5gr Longshot/ WLP
1913
1904
1891
1896
1923
Ave: 1908
ES: 34

12.0gr Longshot/ WLP
1931
1960
1934
1958
1958
Ave: 1948
ES: 29

12.5gr Longshot/ WLP
2040
1922
1948
1971
2015
Ave: 1979
ES: 118
 
 
11.5gr Longshot/ CCI350
1904
1846
1905
1919
1875
Ave: 1889
ES: 73

12.0gr Longshot/ CCI350
1995
1948
1940
1926
1946
Ave: 1951
ES: 69

12.5gr Longshot/ CCI350
2014
1958
1976
2054
2054
Ave: 2011
ES: 96

whenmonkeysfly
08-25-2010, 15:59
Here’s some more 9x25 Dillon Load Data using Longshot, using WLP's & CCI350's this time.

Sea Level, 85* F
6" LWD Barrel
Wolff 22# Spring
1.26 OAL
9x25 Dillon Die sized Starline Brass

11.5gr Longshot/ WLP
1913
1904
1891
1896
1923
Ave: 1908
ES: 34

12.0gr Longshot/ WLP
1931
1960
1934
1958
1958
Ave: 1948
ES: 29

12.5gr Longshot/ WLP
2040
1922
1948
1971
2015
Ave: 1979
ES: 118
 
 
11.5gr Longshot/ CCI350
1904
1846
1905
1919
1875
Ave: 1889
ES: 73

12.0gr Longshot/ CCI350
1995
1948
1940
1926
1946
Ave: 1951
ES: 69

12.5gr Longshot/ CCI350
2014
1958
1976
2054
2054
Ave: 2011
ES: 96




Hey Meathead,

Thanks for the data. Are you using a 90gr XTP Bullet? Still planning on using Blue Dot? As soon as it gets in the mid 80's here, I'm heading to the range! I've got 95gr Montana Gold JHP's, lots of Blue Dot, CCI 300's and CCI 350's. I'd like to get 1900fps.

Meathead9
08-25-2010, 16:29
Hey Meathead,

Thanks for the data. Are you using a 90gr XTP Bullet? Still planning on using Blue Dot? As soon as it gets in the mid 80's here, I'm heading to the range! I've got 95gr Montana Gold JHP's, lots of Blue Dot, CCI 300's and CCI 350's. I'd like to get 1900fps.

Yeah, I was using the 90gr XTP's again, I edited the post to add that. I didn't get to 1900fps with Blue Dot yet, but I haven't used Mag Primers. I'll work up some loads with BD & CCI350's next time out. I also want to work up from 12.0gr-12.5gr of Longshot with CCI350's in 0.1 increments, to see if I can tighten up my ES's and groups. I'll also be loading up some 115gr XTP's to test out soon.

Meathead9
08-30-2010, 21:37
Here's a picture of the 5 fired cases that were loaded @ 12.5gr Longshot with CCI350's. These are the worst looking primers out of all the rounds I have fired so far, what do you think?

http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c297/rabara9/9x25primers.jpg

_The_Shadow
08-30-2010, 23:02
Meathead9, those primers don't look that bad, where these the ones you chrono'ed above? Those velocities are looking good from that LWD long tube. The 5" barrel for my S&W just doesn't get the velocities up there...may have to find me a G-20 to complement the G-29.

How was the extraction with the Long Shot loads...did they fly very far compared to the 10mm loads?

Man, I can't wait till this rain is gone and the weather starts to cool off.

Meathead9
08-31-2010, 00:13
Meathead9, those primers don't look that bad, where these the ones you chrono'ed above? Those velocities are looking good from that LWD long tube. The 5" barrel for my S&W just doesn't get the velocities up there...may have to find me a G-20 to complement the G-29.

How was the extraction with the Long Shot loads...did they fly very far compared to the 10mm loads?

Man, I can't wait till this rain is gone and the weather starts to cool off.


Yeah those are the cases from the 12.5gr Longshot/CCI350 load that chrono'd over 2000fps. I left in the 22# spring that I use for my 10mm loads, and the brass literally drops at my feet. Every round has cycled perfectly, so is there any reason I should go to a lighter spring? I have the Wolff Calibration kit (17/19/20/22#) so I have a couple options I can try out.

_The_Shadow
08-31-2010, 09:17
I left in the 22# spring that I use for my 10mm loads, and the brass literally drops at my feet. Every round has cycled perfectly, so is there any reason I should go to a lighter spring?


That was why I asked, I experienced the same thing with some of the loads I tested from DT and also my handloads, using the 22lb spring in my S&W1006.

It could be tested with the 20lb spring I suppose but I don't know if I'd change the spring and risk having the slide unlock too early, as that may cause unsupported case issues.

whenmonkeysfly
09-10-2010, 06:03
Ordered some Longshot from Powder Valley yesterday. :)

(Still way too hot and humid to shoot here.)

Meathead9
09-13-2010, 20:56
These were loaded to tighten up the ES's of my previous testing, while keeping the average velocity over 2000fps. I added a little more crimp this time too.

Sea Level, 75* F
6" LWD Barrel
Wolff 22# Spring
1.26 OAL
Hodgdon Longshot
CCI350 Primers
9x25 Dillon Die sized Starline Brass

12.1gr
2032
2027
1995
2015
2044
Ave: 2023
ES: 49

12.2gr
2055
2045
2059
2050
2038
Ave: 2049
ES: 21

12.3gr
2047
2031
2022
2067
2074
Ave: 2048
ES: 52

12.4gr
2077
2024
1999
2057
2023
Ave: 2036
ES: 78

Brass/Primers all look good, and brass drops within 4ft of my position. I'm going to stick with the 12.2gr load for the 90gr XTP from now on. Now it's time to get to work on the 115gr XTP's.

_________________________________________________________________________

I also tested some more Blue Dot/90gr XTP loads, this time with CCI350's, and again, a little more crimp. I just wanted try the mag primers out. The sound and flash from these rounds are amazing. The 14.8gr load is my new "wake up the indoor range" round. 14.5gr with CCI300's works for that too.

Sea Level, 75* F
6" LWD Barrel
Wolff 22# Spring
1.26 OAL
CCI350 Primers
Alliant Blue Dot
9x25 Dillon Die sized Starline Brass

14.6gr
1968
1918
1988
1917
1941
Ave: 1946
ES: 70

14.8gr
1953
1941
1947
1955
1930
Ave: 1945
ES: 23

15.0gr
1911
1998
1950
1954
1999
Ave: 1962
ES: 88

Brass/Primers all still look good, but I'm happy with what I have done so far, so I don't see a need to go any further with Blue Dot and the 90gr XTP.

whenmonkeysfly
09-14-2010, 06:37
These were loaded to tighten up the ES's of my previous testing, while keeping the average velocity over 2000fps. I added a little more crimp this time too.

Sea Level, 75* F
6" LWD Barrel
Wolff 22# Spring
1.26 OAL
Hodgdon Longshot
CCI350 Primers
9x25 Dillon Die sized Starline Brass

12.1gr
2032
2027
1995
2015
2044
Ave: 2023
ES: 49

12.2gr
2055
2045
2059
2050
2038
Ave: 2049
ES: 21

12.3gr
2047
2031
2022
2067
2074
Ave: 2048
ES: 52

12.4gr
2077
2024
1999
2057
2023
Ave: 2036
ES: 78

Brass/Primers all look good, and brass drops within 4ft of my position. I'm going to stick with the 12.2gr load for the 90gr XTP from now on. Now it's time to get to work on the 115gr XTP's.

_________________________________________________________________________

I also tested some more Blue Dot/90gr XTP loads, this time with CCI350's, and again, a little more crimp. I just wanted try the mag primers out. The sound and flash from these rounds are amazing. The 14.8gr load is my new "wake up the indoor range" round. 14.5gr with CCI300's works for that too.

Sea Level, 75* F
6" LWD Barrel
Wolff 22# Spring
1.26 OAL
CCI350 Primers
Alliant Blue Dot
9x25 Dillon Die sized Starline Brass

14.6gr
1968
1918
1988
1917
1941
Ave: 1946
ES: 70

14.8gr
1953
1941
1947
1955
1930
Ave: 1945
ES: 23

15.0gr
1911
1998
1950
1954
1999
Ave: 1962
ES: 88

Brass/Primers all still look good, but I'm happy with what I have done so far, so I don't see a need to go any further with Blue Dot and the 90gr XTP.

Meathead,

Thanks for the most excellent data! Should be getting my Longshot powder Thursday. 12.2 grains of Longshot, AVE 2049 with an ES of 23 is amazing. Now, if the weather will cool down here... I'll try to repeat.

Where did you get your longslide for your G20? I see Lonewolf has 'em.

Meathead9
09-14-2010, 08:27
Meathead,

Thanks for the most excellent data! Should be getting my Longshot powder Thursday. 12.2 grains of Longshot, AVE 2049 with an ES of 23 is amazing. Now, if the weather will cool down here... I'll try to repeat.

Where did you get your longslide for your G20? I see Lonewolf has 'em.

It's a Lone Wolf. I had to wait a while for mine, but they should have them in-stock now. Make sure you work up slowly, be safe.

old wanderer
10-05-2010, 06:16
Does anybody have a set of 9x25 dies they would like to sell?

whenmonkeysfly
10-13-2010, 17:24
At Sea Level
Temperature: 85
6" Lone Wolf Barrel
Brass: Double Tap 9x25 Nickel-Plated, NEW, Resized with Dillon 9x25 Dies
Bullet: 95 Grain Montana Gold, JHP
OAL: 1.260

Powders: Longshot and Blue Dot

ALL LOADS ARE MAXIMUM+ LOADS; DO NOT LOAD AT THESE LEVELS UNLESS YOU ARE EXPERIENCED WITH THIS CARTRIDGE!!!

String 1 - 12 Grains of Longshot Powder and CCI 350 LPM Primers

1) 1908.0 7.6
2) 1902.0 1.6
3) 1909.0 8.6
4) 1894.0 -6.4
5) 1889.0 -11.4

High: 1909.0
Low: 1889.0
E.S.: 20.0
Ave.: 1900.4
S.D.: 8.7
95%: ±12.1

String 2 - 12 Grains of Longshot Powder and CCI 350 LPM Primers

1) 1906.0 7.5
2) 1880.0 -18.5
3) 1917.0 18.5
4) 1891.0 -7.5

High: 1917.0
Low: 1880.0
E.S.: 37.0
Ave.: 1898.5
S.D.: 16.3
95%: ±29.9


String 3 - 12.2 Grains of Longshot Powder and CCI 350 LPM Primers

1) 1924.0 -3.0
2) 1936.0 9.0
3) 1918.0 -9.0
4) 1930.0 3.0

High: 1936.0
Low: 1918.0
E.S.: 18.0
Ave.: 1927.0
S.D.: 7.7
95%: ±14.1

String 4 - 12.2 Grains of Longshot Powder and CCI 350 LPM Primers

1) 1904.0 -5.4
2) 1901.0 -8.4
3) 1910.0 0.6
4) 1912.0 2.6
5) 1920.0 10.6

High: 1920.0
Low: 1901.0
E.S.: 19.0
Ave.: 1909.4
S.D.: 7.4
95%: ±10.3

String 5 - 15 Grains of Blue Dot with CCI 350 LPM Primers

1) 1925.0 7.0
2) 1902.0 -16.0
3) 1915.0 -3.0
4) 1939.0 21.0
5) 1909.0 -9.0

High: 1939.0
Low: 1902.0
E.S.: 37.0
Ave.: 1918.0
S.D.: 14.5
95%: ±20.1

String 6 - 15 Grains of Blue Dot with CCI 350 LPM Primers

1) 1924.0 24.0
2) 1895.0 -5.0
3) 1858.0 -42.0
4) 1906.0 6.0
5) 1917.0 17.0

High: 1924.0
Low: 1858.0
E.S.: 66.0
Ave.: 1900.0
S.D.: 25.9
95%: ±35.9

String 7 - 15 Grains of Blue Dot with CCI 350 LPM Primers

1) 1916.0 8.7
2) 1915.0 7.7
3) 1904.0 -3.3
4) 1894.0 -13.3

High: 1916.0
Low: 1894.0
E.S.: 22.0
Ave.: 1907.3
S.D.: 10.4
95%: ±19.1

String 8 - 15 Grains of Blue Dot with CCI 350 LPM Primers

1) 1921.0 3.6
2) 1926.0 8.6
3) 1924.0 6.6
4) 1896.0 -21.4
5) 1920.0 2.6

High: 1926.0
Low: 1896.0
E.S.: 30.0
Ave.: 1917.4
S.D.: 12.2
95%: ±16.9

String 9 - 15 Grains of Blue Dot with CCI 350 LPM Primers

1) 1884.0 -1.6
2) 1884.0 -1.6
3) 1850.0 -35.6
4) 1915.0 29.4
5) 1895.0 9.4

High: 1915.0
Low: 1850.0
E.S.: 65.0
Ave.: 1885.6
S.D.: 23.6
95%: ±32.8


String 10 - 12.2 Grains of Longshot Powder and CCI 350 LPM Primers

1) 1974.0 4.8
2) 1945.0 -24.2
3) 1992.0 22.8
4) 1963.0 -6.2
5) 1972.0 2.8

High: 1992.0
Low: 1945.0
E.S.: 47.0
Ave.: 1969.2
S.D.: 17.1
95%: ±23.7

String 11 - 12.2 Grains of Longshot Powder and CCI 350 LPM Primers

1) 1993.0 -4.4
2) 1993.0 -4.4
3) 2020.0 22.6
4) 2014.0 16.6
5) 1967.0 -30.4

High: 2020.0
Low: 1967.0
E.S.: 53.0
Ave.: 1997.4
S.D.: 20.9
95%: ±29.0

String 12 - 12.2 Grains of Longshot Powder and CCI 350 LPM Primers

1) 2017.0 21.2
2) 1976.0 -19.8
3) 2014.0 18.2
4) 1999.0 3.2
5) 1973.0 -22.8

High: 2017.0
Low: 1973.0
E.S.: 44.0
Ave.: 1995.8
S.D.: 20.6
95%: ±28.6

String 13 - 12.2 Grains of Longshot Powder and CCI 350 LPM Primers

1) 1977.0 -8.1
2) 1971.0 -14.1
3) 1999.0 13.9
4) 2000.0 14.9
5) 1971.0 -14.1
6) 1975.0 -10.1
7) 1996.0 10.9
8) 1996.0 10.9
9) 1980.0 -5.1
10) 1986.0 0.9

High: 2000.0
Low: 1971.0
E.S.: 29.0
Ave.: 1985.1
S.D.: 11.8
95%: ±8.9

(End Of Data)

I like both these loads, but lean toward the 12.2 Grains of Longshot. It seems to be a little more consistent. That being said, there is nothing like the Blue Dot FLASH! Thanks to Meathead, Kegs, The Shadow for great data/input!

I am puzzled by the Longshot, in that it seemed to get faster as my barrel heated up? (Notice the last string of data with earlier strings.) Any ideas?

Primers on both loads were flattening - headspace issues? No smilies, cracks, bulges noted. (I'll try and find the camera a take a couple of pix to post.) I use competition springs from Wolff - 4#Striker Spring and a 6#Trigger Spring with a 3.5 Lone Wolf Connector (same as the Ghost essentially). I was using a Glock stock steel striker and was having a few misfires. I changed-out my steel striker for a Lightning Strike Striker to hopefully correct the problem. (Spoke with Dan at Lone Wolf and he said the 4# Spring just doesn't have the strength to push the weight of the steel striker.) If the Lightning Strike Striker (titanium) doesn't fix the problem, I'll go back to the 5.5# Glock stock striker spring.

The 12.2 Longshot was weighed twice for accuracy. It seems to have a good ES vs. the Blue Dot, but I didn't weigh the Blue Dot twice (an activity for another day). The Longshot meters well. I'll try and hit the range tomorrow. I've got some Blue Dot, 15 Grains, CCI 300 LP Primers and more of the 12.2 Grains of Longshot with CCI 350 LPM's to shoot. Want to confirm/fix trigger issue.

_The_Shadow
10-13-2010, 19:47
WhenMonkeysFly...Awesom! Great report!

My last test occured too late in the day and I loss the light and the CHRONY struggled to give good readings so I had to put off the test.

The few I did get readings on...
Smith & Wesson 1006 with Bar-Sto 9X25 conversion 5" barrel
Zero 121gr 0.356" JHP (should be a good hunting bullet)
AA#9 13.0 grains
Velocity 1389 fps

Smith & Wesson 1006 with Bar-Sto 9X25 conversion 5" barrel
Zero 121gr 0.356" JHP (should be a good hunting bullet)
AA#7 11.2 grains
Velocity 1363 fps

Both of these loads seem to have room for more development. I'd like to atleast see 1550-1600 fps from these Zero 121gr 0.356" JHP. I did see those numbers from the 10.2 grain Power Pistol loads. I hope to get more testing in soon, but I had a umbilical hernia surgery which needs to heal properly befor I do any heavy stuff.

I was going to try the Glock 29 out with the Lone Wolf Dist. 9X25 conversion Std length, but when I slipped the slide & conversion barrel on the frame the recoil rod jumped off and locked things up, rather than fool with it in the field, I waited till I got home to disassemble the thing. I really want some numbers from the short barrel.

I did manage to test my muzzle loader (Winchester APEX 45 cal.), it had been loaded since last November with Hornady 200 grain XTP in Harvester sabot, over 100 grain equivalant of (BP) Triple 7 which gave a velocity 1970 fps.

whenmonkeysfly
10-14-2010, 10:10
Here's a picture of 9x25 Dillon with 95 Grain Montana Gold JHP; Primer/Casing Shots of Blue Dot, 15 Grains and 12.2 Grains of Longshot. Comments?

http://glocktalk.com/forums/album.php?albumid=969

whenmonkeysfly
10-14-2010, 13:26
Short continuation of previously posted data. Primarily wanted to see if the Titanium Striker fixed the misfire problem, which it did :) Again, Sea Level, 85 degrees, slight breeze (thankfully), 6" Lone Wolf Barrel.

String 1 - Double Tap 9x25 Dillon 90 Grain FMJ (Mike McNett's)

1) 1768.0 -20.3
2) 1804.0 15.7
3) 1793.0 4.7

High: 1804.0
Low: 1768.0
E.S.: 36.0
Ave.: 1788.3
S.D.: 18.4
95%: ±56.0


String 2 - Double Tap 9x25 Brass, New, Resized with Dillon 9x25 Dies; 12 Grains of Longshot; CCI 350 LPM; OAL: 1.260 (These charges were weighed twice for consistency - nice ES if I can increase the N.)

1) 1909.0 -4.3
2) 1910.0 -3.3
3) 1916.0 2.7
4) 1918.0 4.7

High: 1918.0
Low: 1909.0
E.S.: 9.0
Ave.: 1913.3
S.D.: 4.4
95%: ±8.1


I would have lots more data, but I shot one of the arms on my chronograph... CRAP!
Anyway the change to a Lightning Strike Titanium Striker fixed the misfire issue. Nice, crisp, light trigger now.

Meathead9
10-14-2010, 19:45
I would have lots more data, but I shot one of the arms on my chronograph... CRAP!
Anyway the change to a Lightning Strike Titanium Striker fixed the misfire issue. Nice, crisp, light trigger now.

I did the same thing, about 65rds into my FIRST time out with the chrony. I went to OSH and picked up some wood dowels that were about the same diameter of the metal rods, cut them to length and narrowed the ends to fit. I have 12 wooden rods in my range bag in case it ever happens again, but I was able to straighten out the metal rod in a vise.

It's good to see another 9x25 Dillon loader all fired up! I just picked up some Winchester (.356) 88gr JHP's to load. I'm hoping they aren't as tricky to seat straight as the XTP's have been. It looks like that 95gr MG is a good choice too. Good Job WMF!

Gun-adian
10-15-2010, 10:44
Awesome to see more data, Guys!!!!

I'll have some more to add as well....soon, I hope. I did a bunch of Speer 158 Gr. JHP's. I'll post the data as soon as I find my book. We're in the middle of a house reno. There's crap everywhere!!!

Stay tuned.

Mike.

Meathead9
11-15-2010, 14:24
Sea Level, 65* F
6" LWD Barrel
Wolff 22# Spring
1.26 OAL
Hodgdon Longshot
CCI350 Primers
115gr XTP
9x25 Dillon Die sized Starline Brass

10.4gr
1697
1696
1718
1705
1710
Ave: 1705
ES: 22

10.6gr
1714
1717
1690
1710
1709
Ave: 1708
ES: 27

10.8gr
1701
1708
1735
1719
1698
Ave: 1712
ES: 37

11.0gr
1755
1781
1730
1739
1750
Ave: 1751
ES: 51

11.2gr
1758
1755
1744
1759
1746
Ave: 1752
ES: 15

I also put (10) more of my 90gr XTP/12.2gr Longshot/CCI350 loads through the chrono, just to confirm the numbers from previous testing. They are consistent with my last chrono session, averaging 2048fps with an ES of 27.

whenmonkeysfly
11-15-2010, 14:30
Sea Level, 65* F
6" LWD Barrel
Wolff 22# Spring
1.26 OAL
Hodgdon Longshot
CCI350 Primers
115gr XTP
9x25 Dillon Die sized Starline Brass

10.4gr
1697
1696
1718
1705
1710
Ave: 1705
ES: 22

10.6gr
1714
1717
1690
1710
1709
Ave: 1708
ES: 27

10.8gr
1701
1708
1735
1719
1698
Ave: 1712
ES: 37

11.0gr
1755
1781
1730
1739
1750
Ave: 1751
ES: 51

11.2gr
1758
1755
1744
1759
1746
Ave: 1752
ES: 15

I also put (10) more of my 90gr XTP/12.2gr Longshot/CCI350 loads through the chrono, just to confirm the numbers from previous testing. They are consistent with my last chrono session, averaging 2048fps with an ES of 27.

SWEET! A 9mm Magnum. Primers and cases look okay?

Meathead9
11-15-2010, 15:00
SWEET! A 9mm Magnum. Primers and cases look okay?

Primers and cases all look good. I'm sure I could push it a little harder if I really wanted to, but I'm more than happy with the 11.2gr load.

jr10
11-25-2010, 18:50
I was wondering if anyone has experimented with the 147grain Golden saber bullet in the 9x25? I was going to try some loads with Unique, Blue dot and
800x. I have a Glock 20 with a standard Lone wolf barrel. I can't seem to find any col numbers. I will be using new Double Tap brass. Any ideas or help
would be greatly appreciated.:cool:
Thanks in advance,
Jay

FTC
12-01-2010, 00:00
guys- all the data here has gotten me hooked on the 9x25. ive been working up loads with the data here and the old lyman published stuff. one of these days ill have to get a chrono so i have something to add here.

do you guys have problems with bullets seating crooked? is it even a big deal? nothing terrible but noticeable by eye. am i belling the case too much or not enough? or is it just making sure the bullet starts straight? they tend to tip in the case before being seated. im running a dillon die set thru a single stage with an RCBS 9mm expander.

_The_Shadow
12-01-2010, 22:09
You may be having issues with the seating plug...If the seater die is a Dillon have you tried to flip the plug over? One side for round nosed bullets, the other for flat nosed bullets.

FTC
12-01-2010, 22:26
yup, got that figured out- round side for ball and flat side for xtp, etc...
its more noticeable with the round

You may be having issues with the seating plug...If the seater die is a Dillon have you tried to flip the plug over? One side for round nosed bullets, the other for flat nosed bullets.

Meathead9
12-02-2010, 11:57
do you guys have problems with bullets seating crooked? is it even a big deal? nothing terrible but noticeable by eye. am i belling the case too much or not enough? or is it just making sure the bullet starts straight? they tend to tip in the case before being seated. im running a dillon die set thru a single stage with an RCBS 9mm expander.

I had issues initially with XTP's seating crooked using the Dillon seater die. I tried both sides of the seater plug, and both RCBS 9mm seater stems in an RCBS 10mm seater die. I tried making sure the bullets were perfectly straight before seating. I tried seating them really slowly. I also tried slamming down the handle on my press to see if seating them faster would make them straight. The only thing that helped me was belling the cases more. I still get the occasional slightly crooked XTP, but for the most part they are all seating straight now. I did a google search, and found out that the 9mm XTP is difficult to seat straight in general. I want to try 90gr GDHP's, maybe 95gr MG JHP's, and 115gr MG or Zero JHP's to see if they are easier to seat straight than the XTP's are.

FTC
12-08-2010, 21:52
well im glad im not the only one. ive found the 90g xtps difficult to seat as well, not as much a problem with the 115xtps. also some remington 88g hp were not wanting to seat straight either. ill have to play with the expander a little i guess. it seemed i was over expanding but the bullets barely sit into the opening and kind of teeter.

Gun-adian
12-10-2010, 13:13
I was having the same problem with the XTP's....so I used a RCBS 9mm expander die to flare the case mouth. It meant an extra step, but it worked really well.

If you want to load .357 diameter bullets like the Speer 158 gr. JHP or 110 gr. GDHP just use a .357 expander plug.

All the bullets I tried seated straight and had no feeding issues in the gun.

YMMV.

Thanks.

Mike.

Meathead9
12-10-2010, 13:57
I was having the same problem with the XTP's....so I used a RCBS 9mm expander die to flare the case mouth. It meant an extra step, but it worked really well.

If you want to load .357 diameter bullets like the Speer 158 gr. JHP or 110 gr. GDHP just use a .357 expander plug.

All the bullets I tried seated straight and had no feeding issues in the gun.

YMMV.

Thanks.

Mike.

I've also been using the RCBS 9mm expander die, and I believe FTC is too.

While I'm at it, I've been meaning to ask about the pros & cons of using .355/.356/.357 Jacketed bullets. Should I slug my barrel to see what it actually is? I have read conflicting info about what diameter bullet the 9x25 Dillon is designed to use. Some manufacturers 9mm bullets are strictly .355, and some are strictly .356, so I'm a little lost.

Gun-adian
12-10-2010, 14:56
In my case, .355 and .357 both worked. I just had to remember to switch expander plugs or I was dealing with crunched cases.

I haven't slugged my barrel, but both sizes fed and fired without issue. Accuracy was quite good as well....from what I could tell from limited testing, anyway.

Mike.

_The_Shadow
12-11-2010, 16:40
I'm using some Zero 121 gr 0.356" Jacketed HP from my S&W 1006 with the Bar-Sto barrel and Glock 29 with the Lone Wolf Dist. barrel. These Zero bullets were made for the 38 Super and the 9x23's so I figure they would hold together better than the Gold Dots for hunting.

My cast bullets are sized to 0.356" also and have been great also.

I have used the Double Tap with Gold Dots which are 0.355" the 90 gr bullets are not as accurate as the 115 gr & 125 gr GD's.

I often thought the 0.357" might be to much but it seems Mike/Gun-adian's gun handles them.

BTW I'm also using the RCBS 9mm expander for mine as well.

Meathead9
12-12-2010, 12:47
I'm using some Zero 121 gr 0.356" Jacketed HP from my S&W 1006 with the Bar-Sto barrel and Glock 29 with the Lone Wolf Dist. barrel. These Zero bullets were made for the 38 Super and the 9x23's so I figure they would hold together better than the Gold Dots for hunting.

I have been loading up some 115gr XTP's for hunting, but lately I've been eyeing Zero's 115gr JSP (.356/38 Super). How do you think those would fare versus a 115gr XTP @ 1750fps?

I'm thinking the 90gr-95gr JHP's @ 2000fps would be like Varmint Grenades, and the 115gr JHP/JSP's @ 1750fps would be more of a Coyote type load.

_The_Shadow
12-12-2010, 21:27
The Hornady's are a great bullet and a true copper Jacket. I like the data that you have got from them. You would like the Zero product & pricing I am quite sure, the bullets are very uniform in sizing and weight.

The Zero Bullets are aslo a true copper jackets and I'm thinking they are slightly thicker jackets because they are made for the 38 Super performance. I'm still trying to test more of these 121 grain HP's to settle on a load to do up 500 rounds in my DT brass.

We are starting to see more companies going to plated bullets and more may go that route in the near future to use less copper. Speer's Gold Dots are of a plated design but they have great quality and uniformity specific to cartridge/caliber for expansion with core bonding in the process. I have heard many complaints about shearing and keyholing with projectiles of other manufactures. There has also been some improvements to some of those recently.(Berry)

Speer and others are also producing plated bullets which are designed for rifle use and velocities so that interesting to look into as well.

I sure wish I knew what powder Mike is using in the ones he sells. I disassembled the 90/115/125 grain GD and recorded the powder charge weights but identifing the powder has led me nowhere. The flakes are about the size of Blue dot flakes but they are more of a flatten ball type and the color is so shiny that it looks almost like chrome. His loads performed very well in my S&W 1006 5" barrel. I so want to duplicate those loads as the velocity vs. pressure was on the money.

JTknives
01-23-2011, 15:05
Well i finely got my 9x25 Dillon all set up. The platform is my glock 20 with a trijicon RMR red dot. I got a Jarvis 6" barrel from some one here on the forum. I threaded the barrel at work to take my lone wolf comp as i wanted the option to run with a comp. I tested her out at the local indoor range a few days ago and was blown away. i had a perma grin after the first shot. i took some vid to show what 14.5gr of blue dot and a CCI 300 primer under a 90gr XTP will look like. To day I'm heading out to test 15 and 15.5gr of blue dot and some long shot loads. i will bring my chrono with me this time. here are the vid clips.

view from under the gun
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uUIll-fVr0Y

this clip i had a few problems with the slide not locking completely up. i think i have soled it but we will see today.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qhsCP14pzXs

FTC
01-23-2011, 17:04
nice vids i had the same problem. what do you think solved it for you?

_The_Shadow
01-23-2011, 20:27
JT, very nice, can't wait for the CHRONY data!

JTknives
01-30-2011, 00:20
I was running some numbers in QuickLoad and noticed that for a 90gr xtp loaded to an OAL of 1.26" and filled with 15.5gr of Blue Dot it creates 31,428 psi @ 1842 FPS out of a 6.02" barrel. Now this is just quickloads numbers so i don't know how much water it holds but it made me think.

JTknives
02-03-2011, 22:06
ws able to take a better quality vid the other day. man it makes a fireball.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nYNCGRJhig8

here is a pic of the fire ball
http://a8.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/hs047.snc6/167743_1856766945918_1443189422_32122416_6146038_n.jpg

whenmonkeysfly
02-03-2011, 22:22
ws able to take a better quality vid the other day. man it makes a fireball.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nYNCGRJhig8

here is a pic of the fire ball
http://a8.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/hs047.snc6/167743_1856766945918_1443189422_32122416_6146038_n.jpg

Gotta love it!

_The_Shadow
02-04-2011, 15:49
Great Balls of FIRE! Blue Dot ball lightning!

JTknives
02-05-2011, 10:41
Sea Level, 65* F
6" LWD Barrel
Wolff 22# Spring
1.26 OAL
Hodgdon Longshot
CCI350 Primers
115gr XTP
9x25 Dillon Die sized Starline Brass

10.4gr
1697
1696
1718
1705
1710
Ave: 1705
ES: 22

10.6gr
1714
1717
1690
1710
1709
Ave: 1708
ES: 27

10.8gr
1701
1708
1735
1719
1698
Ave: 1712
ES: 37

11.0gr
1755
1781
1730
1739
1750
Ave: 1751
ES: 51

11.2gr
1758
1755
1744
1759
1746
Ave: 1752
ES: 15

I also put (10) more of my 90gr XTP/12.2gr Longshot/CCI350 loads through the chrono, just to confirm the numbers from previous testing. They are consistent with my last chrono session, averaging 2048fps with an ES of 27.


I have got some 124gr XTPs and want to work up some fast loads using long shot. what i'm wondering is where is a good place to start at in grains of long shot?

Meathead9
02-05-2011, 14:02
I have got some 124gr XTPs and want to work up some fast loads using long shot. what i'm wondering is where is a good place to start at in grains of long shot?

Hodgdon's listed max for the .357sig 124gr XTP is 9.3gr. If I were working this load up, I'd start at 9.4gr. I'd work up in .2gr increments to around 10.4gr for the first round of chrono testing. I'll be waiting for your results. I love my 115's @ 1750fps, but a 124 @ 1650+ might be the ticket.

JTknives
02-05-2011, 14:07
Hodgdon's listed max for the .357sig 124gr XTP is 9.3gr. If I were working this load up, I'd start at 9.4gr. I'd work up in .2gr increments to around 10.4gr for the first round of chrono testing. I'll be waiting for your results. I love my 115's @ 1750fps, but a 124 @ 1650+ might be the ticket.

im trying to hit 1700fps with the 124gr xp. the 124gr xtp have an amazing BC for that bullet size. carrys its energy much better. plus with the longer base i bet thy are more accurate.

JTknives
02-06-2011, 19:53
OK i'm back from the range with numbers in hand. WOW i had a good time and was kinda shocked why what i saw. first off im shooting these in a Glock 20 with a jarvis 6" barrel. I tested some 90gr and some 125gr xtps, loads below. temp was 40deg at about 5000ft



I tested this load again and i got false readings. so the numbers below are false. i will retest later
90gr XTP
15.5gr Bluedot
CCI300
OAL 1.265

2175
2140
2143
2164
2203
WHAT 2203 was the first shot so i took 4 more and the numbers hold true. somthing has to be wrong so i kept 2 rounds to pull to make shure i did no load like 17gr lol. but the primers looked great. Ok now on to the 124gr xtps

125gr XTP
CCI 350
OAL 1.26
LongShot powder

9.6 gr
1656
1616

9.8 gr
1666
1654
1618
1638

10 gr
1681
1668
1660
1689

10.2 gr
1698
1664
1711

10.4 gr
1740
1709
1681
1696
1685
1729
1702
1707
1733
1724

All the primers looked perfectly fine and i will be working up higher. I am just shocked with the numbers im seeing. i dont know what happened with the 15.5gr of BD but i aim to find out. Im going to try some 357 125gr xtps to see if thy will handle the velocity better. the 9mm xtps just exploded and whats left of the core and chacke weigh about 80-85gr. but i can size down the 357 to 355 and be just perfect as thy are rated for 1600fps. I'm going to get an antelope this year with this gun.

JTknives
02-17-2011, 22:35
well today I loaded up some 125gr .357 XTPs. Being that thy are larger then the 9mm versions I was a bit concerned about the pressure. I loaded them to an OAL of 1.27 with 10gr of Longshot. i tested 15 of them as thats all i loaded. i did not have my chrono so i don't know the speed but thy shoot just fine and the primers looked just like if i used .355 sized bullets. so now i will load from probably 10gr to 11gr in .2 steps and test for velocity.

JTknives
02-19-2011, 20:57
To day I went a diffrent direction. I still used 125gr 357 mag xtp's as I Iike how thy shoot. After much searching and reading I decided to actualy load up some to do what the 9x25 was designed to do. At first i assumed it was designed for pure speed but i was wrong. It was designed to genarate a hell of a lot of high pressure gas to make the comps work better. This is done using some absurdley slow powders and a bunch of it. We are talking about powders like W296 and H110.

JTknives
02-19-2011, 21:19
I came across some load data using VV N110 and had to try it out.

WLR primer
14.2gr of N110
125gr .357 XTP
1.25 OAL.
1550 FPS

But somthing felt diffrint. First off it would not even try to eject the brass. the brass would just stay in the chamber. And also there was ZERO muzzle rise. WHAT that cant be true. So i shot one hand with my chest turned to face the side of the gun. This was to watch for muz rise. I held it just tight enough to point it. I fired a shot and it recoiled stright back with 0 rise.

_The_Shadow
02-19-2011, 22:30
Seeing how your gun is comp'ed you could be experiencing the affects of the comp working...14.2 of Hogdon H110 for 115grain bullet and 14.0 of H110 for 125grain bullets is what Mike McNett had originally recomended for the 9x25...
9X25 Dillon June 27, 2009 test
S&W 1006 5.00" with Bar-Sto barrel w/22# Wolff Recoil Spring
Temps 99 °
Zero 121.0 gr HP 0.356” 1.255”
H-110 14.4 gr CCI 350
Velocity 1280-1335 fps
Primers flatten some, little smear

How did the brass and primers look?
What about ejection?

JTknives
02-19-2011, 22:55
Seeing how your gun is comp'ed you could be experiencing the affects of the comp working...14.2 of Hogdon H110 for 115grain bullet and 14.0 of H110 for 125grain bullets is what Mike McNett had originally recomended for the 9x25...
9X25 Dillon June 27, 2009 test
S&W 1006 5.00" with Bar-Sto barrel w/22# Wolff Recoil Spring
Temps 99 °
Zero 121.0 gr HP 0.356” 1.255”
H-110 14.4 gr CCI 350
Velocity 1280-1335 fps
Primers flatten some, little smear

How did the brass and primers look?
What about ejection?

I made a different comp for my 9x25 as i wanted something designed just for the 9x25. the funny thing is with the long shot loads the brass would eject just fine but with the VV N110 loads it would not even pull the brass from the chamber. i would have to manually cycle the slide. I'm guessing i need to use something like my 11lb spring to get it to cycle. I know the comp is working very efficient now. i mean zero muzzle rise is sweet. the primers looked great. i used WLR primers as that's what i had on hand but according to the load data i looked at thy said to use rifle primers. but the primers looked like new with a strike mark in them.

_The_Shadow
02-20-2011, 13:12
New comp...that sounds great!

The lack of ejection is interesting...I noticed some of the loads I tried that ejection was just barely out of the slide. This was with the 22 lb recoil spring. I need to investigate further with other springs for a better understanding. The 9x25 cartridge sure has been a great learning experinence...

I will be looking to see what you find out!

_The_Shadow
02-27-2011, 17:38
Much thanks to MeatHead9 & JT and others with their work with the 9x25 Dillon and also for the help with identifing what does seem like the powder used by DT in their 9x25's cartridges...LongShot is very comparable...

Chronographed Feb 27 2011
Temp…76*
Elevation 22’ above sea level

Cartridge 9X25 Dillon formed from Winchester 10mm cases
Loaded with 10.5 grains of Hodgdon’s LongShot powder
ZERO 121 grain 0.356” JHP (these are the 38Super bullets with good copper jacket) COAL set to 1.260"


Gun S&W 1006 with Bar-Sto Match Grade 5.00” barrel

1565 low
1592
1637 high
1615

Gun Glock 29 with LWD 9x25 3.78” barrel

1539
1524 low
1542 high

Very impressed with the Hodgdon’s LongShot results for both pistols. The performance is very comparable to that Double Tap's loads I have from the S&W.

Cartridge 9X25 Dillon formed from Winchester 10mm cases
Loaded with 14.2 grains of Winchester 296 powder
ZERO 121 grain 0.356” JHP (these are the 38Super bullets with good copper jacket)

Gun S&W 1006 with Bar-Sto Match Grade 5.00” barrel

1209 low
1216
1284 high

This one has plenty room for improvement…

JTknives
02-28-2011, 23:01
Great job on the testing. I have slowly been tweeking my gun and load to get it where i want. I will go on record saying i got the bugs out. last sat i tested a mag full of 125gr .357 FP-XTPs loaded with 14.5gr of N110 and a CCI350 primer loaded to around 1.27. I have an 11LB spring in my G20 and a comp. So i took aim and ripped of a shot. wow perfec cycle. Time for some double taps. VERY fast sec shots. as you take the shot you can watch the sights stay on target. So impressed that this my carry gun now.

_The_Shadow
03-06-2011, 13:46
Well after some close inspection of the Feb. testing, I liked what I saw...case expansion was within reason and I decided to tweak things just a little...So I sat down and loaded the following...

Cartridge 9X25 Dillon I have 500 of Double Tap's brand new brass to mess with and 70 or so once fired DT's...
ZERO 121 grain 0.356” JHP (these are the 38Super bullets with good copper jacket) Originally I purchased a 1000 of these bullets for this project. The hollow point nose and construction of this bullet is why I choose this one inparticular. It's 0.356" dia. and long bearing surface makes for very hard hitting and accurate shooting.
Again Loaded with 10.5 grains of Hodgdon’s LongShot powder, hand weighed for match quality.
I had some Winchester Large Pistol Primers so I used those this time.
I adjusted the COAL to 1.250" although I didn't have any proplems at 1.260" I feel this along with a slight increase in crimp will help even things out over all.

While I could probably drive these a little faster, I like the balance of the performance keeping the longevity of pistol life within reason, not to mention shooter safety. If I ever get a 6" barreled gun the performance will be better still.

I am looking at doing some testing with a few speciality bullets if and when I get them.

Thanks for all the data & help you guys have posted here as it keeps us safe!

whenmonkeysfly
04-06-2011, 08:24
Here's a good video of the classic Blue Dot FLASH. 9x25 Dillon: 15.5 Grains of Blue Dot, CCI 350's, Starline Brass and 95 Grain Montana Gold JHP's. Apologize for the sound track, which was a randomly generated by YouTube, but it was better than listening to me. :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2U3Gyek7oZ4

_The_Shadow
04-17-2011, 12:28
This was interesting...9X25 Magnum Bullberry T/C barrel, 10mm Magnum necked down to 9mm.
Very interesting to see this was done...

The article referes to using 357 dies (SIG) and the angle of the cartridge neck shows it but you can clearly see the spent case shows the change because the chamber is cut from the 9x25 Dillon reamer not the 357 Sig like the shoulder on the loaded rounds...

See the Gun Broker listing...
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=225458739

telecster
05-20-2011, 21:12
I think I will be joining this party...

_The_Shadow
05-20-2011, 22:14
Telecster, welcome to the party! What platform pistol setup are you considering?

I am currently shooting from a S&W1006 5.00" barrel and a Glock 29 3.78"...However if things go right my S&W will be sporting a 6.00" 9x25 conversion barrel! That should yield a bit more velocity from my hand loads!
Best regards!

JTknives
10-24-2011, 23:06
well guys I'm back on the band wagon with the 9x25. I kinda got distracted with a few gun builds but I'm having a go at the 9x25 agian. this time I got some boxes of 90gr gold dots and I'm going to make them scream using long shot. I will keep you posted as to the results.

_The_Shadow
10-25-2011, 07:39
JT, I was wondering where you were, hadn't heard from you in a while, glad you're back on!:wavey:

whenmonkeysfly
10-25-2011, 16:12
well guys I'm back on the band wagon with the 9x25. I kinda got distracted with a few gun builds but I'm having a go at the 9x25 agian. this time I got some boxes of 90gr gold dots and I'm going to make them scream using long shot. I will keep you posted as to the results.

Keep us posted. I've been distracted with 10mm loads again, but I'll be back in the Dillon camp shortly.

Usmcfox
12-30-2011, 18:24
Okay I might be new to this forum but definitely not new to 9x25 I actually have used several loads off if here but never got around to registering until now. I have a burning question though does anyone in here trim 9x25 ? My second issue is do not by dt 9x25 brass had to throw away 6 that were split 2 had huge dings in them 1 primer hole was not punched and 1 round completely crushed. I would post pictures but all I have at the moment is my iPad.

_The_Shadow
12-30-2011, 19:00
USMCFox, :welcome: to the forum! I here you about the DT brass situation.

The 9x25Dillon is a cartridge which requires a lot of attention to details, the single most important is headspacing...If you size it too deep and have too much head space it can casue neck seperations fairly easy with full power loads.

I did write to Starline Brass yesterday about a special run of 9x25Dillon marked brass. I will post when I get info one way or the other.
Looking to see what is the smallest quanity they would do...depending on what they say. If it is a large quanity maybe a group buy could be done.

Best regards!

Usmcfox
12-30-2011, 22:03
_the_shadow I'm a huge fan of your data. And as for double tap they will be getting a not so flattering letter, email, and phone call. Major let down. And I would definitely be in on a buy my resized starline 10mil is 1,000 times better than the dt crap I received. I also found I hate xtps for my ten love with the nine. And opposite with the gold dots. I would love to post some of my findings however my chrono had a major malfunction when it ran into a 22-250 50 gr. Nosler. I hope to have some videos to share on YouTube tomorrow or Monday. Weather depending.

Usmcfox
12-31-2011, 22:54
Below is loading data tha neither I glock talk or anyone else are legally responsible use at your own risk. Tonight I attempted to show off the fireballs my dillon made the first round chambered properly fired normally and appeared to have ejected. Then jam, removed mag rechambered jam so on and so forth for 14 rounds so I swapped barrels and put in the good old 10mm 6 inch. When I went inside I found the round which ejected was completely separated 2 mm below the neck. I was using 14.2 gr blue dot under a 90 gr xtp cci 350 new resized starline 10mm brass any suggestions comments etc. I was literally heartbroken when this occurred the one time of the year muzzle flash is acceptable I...well my gun and I choked. Earlier today I fired 15 identical rounds without a hitch. And I am a super anal reloader. So very little inconsistency . Thanks all.

_The_Shadow
01-01-2012, 10:01
Usmcfox, I totally understand "ANAL"! It could be that that brass was fatigued (work hardened) which led to the fractured seperation. Rifle shooter usually anneal their brass to soften the neck and shoulders. I haven't gone that route yet...

I try for the tightest shoulder fit for proper head spacing, therefore my dies don't touch the shellholder during sizing. I tried sizing with the die touching the shellholder and that allowed too much headspacing in my barrels.

Usmcfox
01-01-2012, 19:53
Just got back from the range 7 more split casings 15 with starts of splits I think it might be the bullets seating improperly. I'm using a lee 9mm expansion insert in my 10/40 body. When it bells it looks a little off what are you guys using to bell your casings?

_The_Shadow
01-01-2012, 22:19
I used a RCBS 9mm expander to do my 9x25Dillon it provides a very straight neck and which is slightly flaired to maintain proper neck tention. For my cast bullets I have to flair slightly more to avoid bullet shaving during seating with out any crimp being added, then crimped using enough to remove the flair and taper crimp finish.

Be sure to examine your barrel to be sure nothing got stuck inside with any of the seperation.

Good luck!

Usmcfox
01-02-2012, 09:16
Be sure to examine your barrel to be sure nothing got stuck inside with any of the seperation.



Yeah there were a few but it would not chamber another round but luckily for me I was able to just pull them right out with a small screw driver. I might be investing in the rcbs die the lee does not expand them straight at all.

Meathead9
01-02-2012, 11:26
I went through the same thing before I found out about the RCBS 9mm Expander Die from Mr. Shadow. I just loaded 150rds of my 90gr XTP/12.2gr Longshot/CCI350 load last night. So far ive succesfully loaded and fired over 400rds of 9x25 Dillon using that die.

I did have issues with Nickel cases splitting at the neck during the initial sizing. They seem to be more brittle than standard brass. Some were obvious, some I really had to look hard to see. After I split 5-10 necks in a row, I gave up on sizing nickel cases for the 9x25.

Usmcfox
01-02-2012, 18:54
Just ordered my rcbs expanding die hopefully it works better than the lee did.

Usmcfox
01-03-2012, 17:57
What is the most accurate load you guys use? I was pretty happy with 115 xtps over 12.5 bd. And again nor me glock talk or anyone else is responsible for this data. I was shooting a 4" 15 shot group at 25 yards using my red dot.

_The_Shadow
01-04-2012, 08:21
Well I did contact Star Line about the producing brass marked 9x25 just to see how that would go...here is the answer I recieved!


The minimum quantity for a run of 9x25 Dillon with a small primer pocket would be 100,000 pieces. The price would be $136/per 1,000 and there would be a $750 tooling fee for the headstamp (What the headstamp reads would be your choice). This would be straight, un-necked brass.

Regards,

Hunter Pilant
Media Relations/Technical Support


Even trying to do a group buy would be tough to obtain 100 buyers getting 1000 pieces each...:shocked:

$13,600.00 100K brass
+ $750.00 Tooling for head stamp
$14,300.00 Total cost

I'd do this Only if I win the Lottery! :supergrin:

Usmcfox
01-04-2012, 14:34
Wow yeah a little crazy. Reading 10mm auto on my brass doesn't hurt my feelings that much. Anyone know where to get Norma 10mm brass at?

Usmcfox
01-07-2012, 08:22
So just got the rcbs expander die and I am very pleased all bullets seated very straight. I will soon be replacing my 45 auto and 40/10mm lee deluxe 4 die with rcbs. I loaded up 100 rounds of nosler sporting jhp over 12.5 bd anxious to see how they perform now that I know all the bullets are seated straight. Not looking forward to firing the 150 rounds I have left using the lee expander.

Usmcfox
01-17-2012, 16:26
What are you guys setting as a max for 115s and blue dot me and the chargemaster made an oops and loaded them all with 12 instead of 10. :whistling:

Meathead9
01-17-2012, 19:14
What is the most accurate load you guys use? I was pretty happy with 115 xtps over 12.5 bd. And again nor me glock talk or anyone else is responsible for this data. I was shooting a 4" 15 shot group at 25 yards using my red dot.

What are you guys setting as a max for 115s and blue dot me and the chargemaster made an oops and loaded them all with 12 instead of 10. :whistling:

Since you already loaded & shot the 115's with 12.5gr BD, you should be good to go. Unless that was a typo of course. I got up to 11.2gr with 115gr XTP's, 1750fps/ES 15, but there was room to grow. Gun-adian worked up to 13gr BD with 115gr Sierra's, so that's another reason you should be ok.

_The_Shadow
01-17-2012, 20:25
I loaded 12.2 grains Blue Dot with 121 grain 0.356" JHP @ 1550 fps from my S&W 1006 with the Bar-Sto 5" conversion.

Grimson
01-17-2012, 21:15
15.5 Blue Dot under 95gr FMJ, CCI #350 = FLAMETHROWER!!!

12.2 Longshot under 88gr HP, CCI #350 = THUNDERBOMB!!

9X25 Dillon= FUN FUN FUN!!!

Usmcfox
01-19-2012, 19:10
Yeah meathead it was a typo that was with 90 gr xtps sorry my bad.

Usmcfox
01-19-2012, 19:10
And new chrono coming tomorrow I will post my findings when I get the chance.

Wyle.E.Kyote
02-15-2012, 20:48
Well I did contact Star Line about the producing brass marked 9x25 just to see how that would go...here is the answer I recieved!



Even trying to do a group buy would be tough to obtain 100 buyers getting 1000 pieces each...:shocked:

$13,600.00 100K brass
+ $750.00 Tooling for head stamp
$14,300.00 Total cost

I'd do this Only if I win the Lottery! :supergrin:


~.14c each .. not much of a bulk discount off the going rate of ~.15c 1000s for 10mm :( Brass margins must be thinner than expected.

Wyle.E.Kyote
02-15-2012, 20:57
My current 9x25 load info .. use at your own risk, your mileage may. Not responsible if you blow yourself up with it, nor for that yappy dog next door who is living on borrowed time I tell ya.



Vit N110 15.9gr 115jhp STI frame/Barsto barrel + comp 1630 fps (ave 10 shots)
Glock 20, same reamer as above 1550 fps (ave 10 shots)

This was tuned to make old school USPSA Major in the STI .. The glock is just fun to shoot.

_The_Shadow
02-15-2012, 21:01
Yes it would be too much of an investment just to have properly labled brass! But if I were better off financially I'd consider it, just to supply us on the cartridge!

Like I said if I ever won the lottery, I'd do this! :supergrin:

_The_Shadow
02-15-2012, 21:11
Wyle.E.Kyote, that sounds like a great load, Thanks for sharing that info!
I shot some with H-110 14.4 grains which seemed to have more room but I'm working with a 5" Bar-Sto in my S&W1006 and velocity doesn't build as high. I started with some Blue Dot loadings early on because it was a little faster burn and had some success.

I did tear down some DT ammo and recorded the LongShot powder charges and bullet info and I have posted that data here on the forum. Those also performed well when I tested those loadings.

Best regards! :cool:

Wyle.E.Kyote
02-15-2012, 21:13
I remember back in the day (twists the knob back 15 years) I seem to recall that Someone had some 9x25 headstamped brass .. I want to say it was Voigt but I'm going by memory addled with age, kids and alcohol.

I'd be in for helping finance it at some point .. Its a bit of a novelty item, but it is something thats always kind of bugged me a tiny bit .. Sort of legitimizes the round.

JTknives
03-12-2012, 15:48
Load up 100 rounds of 9x25 last night. 90gr gold dot and 12.2gr long shot. My gole is to test all my recoil springs to see which one cycles and provides the most reliability. I'm running the gun with a comp so recoil is reduced a ton.

_The_Shadow
03-12-2012, 16:59
JT, That will be a great test...I know using the same 22 lb spring as the 10mm, the 9x25's with their short impulse has them basicly dropping out about 2 to 4 feet as opposed to the 10mil's going 6 to10 feet.

I checked the web site the other day thinking about you and loking to see if you had time to update.

Good luck!

Wyle.E.Kyote
03-13-2012, 07:03
Well N110 is getting hard to get :( My distributor says they are no longer shipping the 8LB containers to the US :(( So i'm going to load up a bunch loads with powders having a similar burn rate play with loads again. Right now I've got a couple pounds of AA#9, H110 and H4227 and I'm waiting on some Lil'Gun. Going to be an interesting weekend.

JTknives
03-13-2012, 09:33
Well back from the testing and it was intersiting. The onley spring that would cycly was the 11lb spring with a brass guide rod. The brass allows the spring to slide easy. I had 100 rounds of the hot 90gr gold dots and about 50-60 rounds into it it stopped cycling. It would stove pipe every round. So I took my rag and tried to clean the chamber. It then cycled another 10 rounds perfectly. I think a dirty chamber was not allowing the brass to eject and that's with an 11lb spring. I guess my comp is working good. I'm going to get another 11lb spring and start clipping coils off it and try to get it to extract with a dirtyish chamber. My gun was also dry and not lubed so I cleaned and lubed it.

_The_Shadow
03-13-2012, 18:10
JT, The LongShot is very short duration with respect to pressures, using a slower burning powder could yield better comp operations and ejections...H-110 and 296 were what they used in competitions back then, but they were not seeing the velocities of LongShot.

Another thing to consider is the expanded case with respect to the ejection cycle, if it is still expanded tightly against the chamber at the start of the ejection cycle, you can see cases left in the chamber as the extractor can pull off of the rim.

Casing with many loadings get sort of rough, good cleaning of the brass and polishing can help with sticky extractions.

G29SF
03-17-2012, 09:17
I have a couple of questions that I can't seem to find the answers to by searching. Been shooting 10mm, 9x25, .40 and .357 Sig out of my G20SF and G29SF for a while now... and plan of getting into reloading.

My questions are (somewhat basic, but not real obvious to me):

Is the 9x25 Dillon a standard 9mm bullet or is it a specific 9x25?
Is the .357 Sig a standard 9mm bullet or is it a specific .357 Sig (I have read mixed answers on this)
Is the 9x25 Dillon case a modified 10mm case or is there a specific case? From what I have read, I think there is no 9x25 case, but a necked down 10mm case.
Is the .357 Sig case a modifed .40 case or does it have its own special case? From what I have read, I think a .40 case does not cut it (although some try). I think the Sig is its own special case.

Thanks.

_The_Shadow
03-17-2012, 11:26
I have a couple of questions that I can't seem to find the answers to by searching. Been shooting 10mm, 9x25, .40 and .357 Sig out of my G20SF and G29SF for a while now... and plan of getting into reloading.

My questions are (somewhat basic, but not real obvious to me):

Is the 9x25 Dillon a standard 9mm bullet or is it a specific 9x25?
Is the .357 Sig a standard 9mm bullet or is it a specific .357 Sig (I have read mixed answers on this)
Is the 9x25 Dillon case a modified 10mm case or is there a specific case? From what I have read, I think there is no 9x25 case, but a necked down 10mm case.
Is the .357 Sig case a modifed .40 case or does it have its own special case? From what I have read, I think a .40 case does not cut it (although some try). I think the Sig is its own special case.

Thanks.

The 9x25Dillon and 357Sig can use the 0.355"/9mm/38Super bullets, I use the 0.355" & 0.356" mostly however there was some who used the 0.357" bullets for the 357 magnum, your chamber/bore/free bore could be too tight for these only measurements and testing will show.

There are bullets specific to the 357Sig, that will work well because their construction is such that they will work better for the velocity range and neck tension to avoid setback issues. Some of the 9mm bullets have the ogive that extends too low down the sides of the bullets, these should be avoided for setback issues.

The 9x25 Dillon case can be had from Double Tap Ammo with proper head stamps, I talked to Star Line to make some with proper head stamps and it was cost prohibitive with the setup fess and order lot.
The cases can be made properly from 10mm cases using the Dillon Dies. Attention to headspacing is critical when setting the sizing die. Headspaced flush to the barrel hood 0.00" or < 0.02" below seem to work great, any less and neck seperations or splitting can occur. There is not too much load data for the 9x25Dillons and GlockTalk probably has the most to study.

The 357Sig has specific casings and are easily obtainable. Trying to make them from 40S&W cases leaves them too short...there is plenty of loading data for the 357Sig.

I will say that the 357Sig and 9x25Dillon are not for the first time handloader. There are things that experience loaders will understand and look out for making these cartridges. :shocked: Please read this entire section to get the best feel for the 9x25Dillons.:supergrin:

Best regards and good luck to you if you need help please ask! I'm sure we caould help!

Taterhead
03-17-2012, 12:35
Good stuff Shadow.

One additional note:The typical round nose 9mm ball type bullets are not appropriate for .357 Sig due to insufficient neck tension in the short Sig neck. There are flat nose bullets more suitable.

.355" bullets are typically suitable for .357 Sig.

_The_Shadow
03-17-2012, 13:43
Tater, I went back and highlighted the section where I was eluding to what you are stating about the ball type bullets.

I have shot some of my cast bullets, but haven't tried to drive them very fast in the 9x25Dillon but have hit 1400 fps in both 357Sig and 9x25Dillon with the cast LEE 122 gr TC using the Red Zambini lube with little to no leading.

Wyle.E.Kyote
03-22-2012, 20:19
Show and tell ... http://youtu.be/39NraqdwvsY

Taterhead
03-22-2012, 20:39
Whoa. That is some productivity!

Wyle.E.Kyote
03-22-2012, 20:49
Whoa. That is some productivity!

About 100 rounds in 4ish minutes at that rate.. Usually I stop every primer fill and size check a bunch of them as the primers fill up on the primer loader.

_The_Shadow
03-22-2012, 21:05
Wyle.E.Kyote, Dat dare is too fancy for my slow pace cajun world...I still do'em one at a time. But thanks for showin' us how its done!

ckrockets
03-22-2012, 21:29
About 100 rounds in 4ish minutes at that rate..

Awesome setup...I can easily out perform that above rate on my 550B.

G29SF
03-26-2012, 18:34
The 9x25Dillon and 357Sig can use the 0.355&quot;/9mm/38Super bullets, I use the 0.355&quot; & 0.356&quot; mostly however there was some who used the 0.357&quot; bullets for the 357 magnum, your chamber/bore/free bore could be too tight for these only measurements and testing will show.

There are bullets specific to the 357Sig, that will work well because their construction is such that they will work better for the velocity range and neck tension to avoid setback issues. Some of the 9mm bullets have the ogive that extends too low down the sides of the bullets, these should be avoided for setback issues.

The 9x25 Dillon case can be had from Double Tap Ammo with proper head stamps, I talked to Star Line to make some with proper head stamps and it was cost prohibitive with the setup fess and order lot.
The cases can be made properly from 10mm cases using the Dillon Dies. Attention to headspacing is critical when setting the sizing die. Headspaced flush to the barrel hood 0.00&quot; or < 0.02&quot; below seem to work great, any less and neck seperations or splitting can occur. There is not too much load data for the 9x25Dillons and GlockTalk probably has the most to study.

The 357Sig has specific casings and are easily obtainable. Trying to make them from 40S&W cases leaves them too short...there is plenty of loading data for the 357Sig.

I will say that the 357Sig and 9x25Dillon are not for the first time handloader. There are things that experience loaders will understand and look out for making these cartridges. :shocked: Please read this entire section to get the best feel for the 9x25Dillons.:supergrin:

Best regards and good luck to you if you need help please ask! I'm sure we caould help!

Thank you for the info.

Usmcfox
04-13-2012, 08:53
Well just got out the old barrel bag and dusted off the 9x25 just wanted to add its a lot more fun when your firearms cycles them properly. Finally got my head spacing adjusted, and added a 23lb recoil spring. The gun shoots like a champ and It is surprisingly accurate. Anybody have much luck with power pistol and 115. Just started shooting cast and I have 1k rn 115, and 8lb of pp ready to go. I like my loads warm but not ridiculous.


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_The_Shadow
04-13-2012, 10:47
Usmcfox, I tested the following...Post #47 in this section. I tested with Blue Dot for the cast bullets, but here is rhe Power Pistol with a 121 jacketed bullet.

Zero 121.0 gr JHP 0.356” 1.255”
Power Pistol 10.2 gr CCI 350
Velocity 1592-1620 fps
Primers flat, lot of firing pin smear
It was 100 gergees that day.

Be sure to check on the barrel to see if you get leading to see where you stand.

Good luck and let us know how it works out! :)

_The_Shadow
05-10-2012, 17:45
:wow: It seems Underwood is venturing into the 9x25 Dillon ammo, he has spots on the website for FMJ and Gold Dot...

http://www.underwoodammo.com/9x25mmdillon.aspx

This may get more people interested in this cartridge! :cool:

whenmonkeysfly
05-10-2012, 21:39
:wow: It seems Underwood is venturing into the 9x25 Dillon ammo, he has spots on the website for FMJ and Gold Dot...

http://www.underwoodammo.com/9x25mmdillon.aspx

This may get more people interested in this cartridge! :cool:

Thanks for the link Shadow. Looks and sounds like they make "real" good ammo.

-Jay

fredr1980
06-05-2012, 02:22
I just picked up a barrel in 9x25 and was wondering what you guys crimped this round to? I read the entire thread and couldn't find a definative number. I loaded up some 115grain XTP test rounds ranging from 10.2gr to 11.0gr of longshot but have yet to crimp them as I couldn't find any crimp measurements. Can't wait to take it out to the range, sounds like a FUN round.

Thanks,
Fred R.

_The_Shadow
06-05-2012, 07:53
Fred1980, :welcome: to the forum!
What dies are you using to crimp with? Dillon 9x25? LEE 357Sig? Other?

I use the Dillion 9x25 die set for size, seat and crimp. I set my taper crimp die to squeeze down till I see a shine develop on the case mouth. But I also test that bullets do not move in or out, neck tension is crucial to prevent bullet setback.

I use a LEE FCD with the guts removed as a "Pass Thru Die" to recondition all semiauto brass, this includes the 9x25's. I also use either my RCBS 9mm neck expander or LEE 357Sig neck expander to true the neck for uniformity. These do a great job with out over expanding so the neck tension is retained.

If you look thru the data you'll see where I pulled down some Double Tap rounds and listed the powder charges with LongShot.

Best regards, be sure to list you findings here as well! :supergrin:

JTknives
06-09-2012, 09:27
I just got my dillon all set up to pump out 9x25 dillon ammo. Set up to load 90gr gold dots with longshot.

fredr1980
06-09-2012, 12:48
Fred1980, :welcome: to the forum!
What dies are you using to crimp with? Dillon 9x25? LEE 357Sig? Other?

I use the Dillion 9x25 die set for size, seat and crimp. I set my taper crimp die to squeeze down till I see a shine develop on the case mouth. But I also test that bullets do not move in or out, neck tension is crucial to prevent bullet setback.

I use a LEE FCD with the guts removed as a "Pass Thru Die" to recondition all semiauto brass, this includes the 9x25's. I also use either my RCBS 9mm neck expander or LEE 357Sig neck expander to true the neck for uniformity. These do a great job with out over expanding so the neck tension is retained.

If you look thru the data you'll see where I pulled down some Double Tap rounds and listed the powder charges with LongShot.

Best regards, be sure to list you findings here as well! :supergrin:

Thanks Shadow, got your response and suggestions on the other forum. I was looking to just pick up a LEE 357 sig expander die for when I start cranking out this caliber in my progressive and can't find anywhere that sells just the Lee 357 sig expander die. That got me to thinking so I took apart my Lee 40s&w/10MM expander die and my lee 9mm expander die and the 9MM expander plug slips right into the 10mm expander die :supergrin: . Seems to work good to, I haven't used it yet in the progressive as I'm still in the load development stage for my gun but it seems like that is what Lee did to make their 357 sig expander. Has anyone used this setup before?

Thanks,
Fred R.

EDIT: Are there any other Lee Charging/expanding dies that could work for the 9x25 dillon? Maybe Lee 38 Super or the 357 Mag expander? I would prefer not to have to take apart both my 10mm & 9MM dies when wanting to load the 9x25 and just have a die specifically for the caliber.

fredr1980
07-01-2012, 20:48
Had a chance to test out some loads after finally finishing fitting the 6" barrel and long slide on my 1911. Tested out 90gr 115gr XTP's and I was actually pretty impressed with it :supergrin: very accurate and flat shooter. Once I got the adjustable sight sighted in I was shooting at a 10" gong at 40yrds and hitting it consistently. Forgot the bring a battery for my new chrono :steamed: so wasn't able to get any velocities but I'll do that next weekend when I go out again :supergrin: . Did strings of 5 on both loads going up in 0.2gr increments. Started the 90gr XTP's at 10.4gr and went all the way up to 12.2gr, no bulged cases with slightly flattened primers on the 12.2gr load, probably stick with the last load once I get velocities on them. Recoil felt about the same amount of recoil on my 6" long slide 9x25 compared to my 5" 45ACP, might have to do with the longe rslide being a bit heavier plus I was running a 22LBS recoil spring on the 9x25 versus the standard 18lbs on the 45. Did the same 5 shot strings with the 115gr XTP's andstarted at 10.2gr and went all the way to 11.0gr. Probably stick to10.6 to 10.8gr once I get velocities as the 11.0gr loads had VERY flattened primers. Recoil on the 115gr XTP's at 10.6gr and up wer enoticeably more than the 230gr 45acp I was also shooting. I also ran the same 22lbs recoil spring on the 115gr but might experiment with the 20lbs & 24lbs springs I also have later.

Fred R.

_The_Shadow
07-01-2012, 21:12
Sounds like you're getting things dialed in, I wish you had your CHRONY running.
I'm taking that this was LongShot powder for your loads.

fredr1980
07-05-2012, 00:56
Sounds like you're getting things dialed in, I wish you had your CHRONY running.
I'm taking that this was LongShot powder for your loads.

Yeah, was running longshot with CCI 350 magnum primers.

Fred R.

fredr1980
07-24-2012, 01:16
Update. Here are the numbers I got after loading up some 90gr XTP and 115gr XTP's.

6" Barrel 1911
90grain XTP
CCI 350 Primer
12.0 Grains Longshot
2059 FPS 10-Shot Average
37.25 ES
17.06 SD
847 Ft Lbs. Based on Average :supergrin:

No pressure signs on the brass, happy with this load so that's what I'm going to stick with for the 90gr XTP's.

6" Barrel 1911
115grain XTP
CCI 350 Primer
10.8 Grains Longshot
1764 FPS 10-Shot Average :sad:
25.83 ES
12.47 SD
794 Ft. Lbs. Based on Average

No pressure signs on this brass also but really was wanting to push the 115XTP's to over 1800 FPS. Probably load up some at 11.0gr and 11.2 gr and see where that takes me.

Ordered some 124gr XTP's and will work up a load based on some of the findings in this thread. Looking to get the 124's up to 1725-1750 FPS... :cool:

Fred R.

_The_Shadow
07-24-2012, 09:41
Man I need to get a longer barrel for this cartridge...:faint:
I have one being made for my S&W, but someday I'll get a Glock 20 4th gen and some barrels.:supergrin:

warhoggie
08-11-2012, 00:55
I've been gone for awhile and finally had some time to check this thread out again. Wow sure are alot more load data.

Thank you all for sharing! This is good stuff.

8voice8
08-21-2012, 21:24
Cross posting this from my Calguns postings, thought I would share here as well.

Loaded 124G JHP with 12G Blue Dot.

It was very aggressive, flung the brass, large flash, loud as hell and not all that accurate.

Primers were starting to flatten, I wish I had taken some 10mm with me so I could compare the two primers after shooting. Here is the worst one out of the bunch next to a piece of virgin brass and a new primer.

Primers

http://inlinethumb48.webshots.com/51311/2249956280072664822S600x600Q85.jpg (http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2249956280072664822EUlGOV)



Data
http://inlinethumb07.webshots.com/43462/2462203450072664822S600x600Q85.jpg (http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2462203450072664822DAsuNM)

_The_Shadow
10-23-2012, 18:31
Are those precision delta bullets plated? :headscratch:
BTW that primer is perfect nat flatten at all...

whenmonkeysfly
10-23-2012, 20:55
8voice8,

I agree with The Shadow, that primer looks good. Appreciate the data. A 124 grain 9mm bullet going 1500fps is moving on. The weather is starting to get tolerable here in Florida so I may have to start doing some more shooting/reloading. (I've got my 9x25 Dillon tool head ready for the press.)

8voice8
11-02-2012, 09:26
Are those precision delta bullets plated? :headscratch:
BTW that primer is perfect nat flatten at all...

No they are a Jacketed Hollow Point,

http://www.precisiondelta.com/img/product/SAMPLE-9mm-124JH.jpg

and they sell samples packs of 100 for 18 bucks shipped so you can mix and match before buying their 2000 minimum order.

Thanks for the primer comment, to be honest I usually did not work up loads for velocity only accuracy befor this round so I was never looking at primers before. So to me it looked a little flat. You learn something new every day though.

8voice8,

I agree with The Shadow, that primer looks good. Appreciate the data. A 124 grain 9mm bullet going 1500fps is moving on. The weather is starting to get tolerable here in Florida so I may have to start doing some more shooting/reloading. (I've got my 9x25 Dillon tool head ready for the press.)

Thanks for the thoughts, and no problem. I have some more loads to test so I will be throwing some more data up here in the near future.

mrpipesmkr
11-09-2012, 20:48
Hi all,
I have been lurking on this thread and others for awhile, mainly to get info and load data on the 9x25. I purchased a Lone Wolf 6" barrel for my G20 last spring and have been having a great time with it ever since. It really is a great cartridge.
Wanted to take the time to thank those who have taken there time to post their experience and load data, it has been a huge asset to me. So, Shadow, Meathead9, Whenmonkeysfly, and all others, Thanks!

Here are some of my observations on 9x25:
Headspace is critical on this round. Measure you fired brass to insure the shoulder dimensions of your reloads fit your chamber. Allow 1-2 thousanth's set back so you rounds will cycle properly. Too much headspace equals short case life!
For my barrel's chamber Doubletap's 9x25's shoulders are set back to far and must be fire-formed. I imagine Mike has to do this so his ammo fits all chambers regardless of who reamed them. It is great ammo though!
My Dillon dies have to be adjusted just right or they put too much flare on the case mouth which shortens case life, and the neck is sized very tight. I use the Dillon die to size and Lee .357Sig to expand the neck and seat the bullet. Lee .357Sig dies cannot be used to size because the shoulder angle is very different than the 9x25.
I have been concerened about using standard 9mm hollow points on this cartridge because I don't think they can hold up to the much higher velocities of the 9x25. What I have settled on as a hollow point bullet is the 125 grain Hornady HAP's. These conical bullets are .356 diameter but shoot well in my barrel. The advantage, to me, is that although they are hollow points they do not have the serations off the hollow point that the Hornady XTP's do. This costruction is similar to many rifle bullets (with lighter jackets) and should allow slower expansion for better penetration and less chance of the bullet "blowing up" even at 1700 FPS. I load these to the maximum length my magazines will allow and use a deburring tool to taper the outer case mouth to prevent the mouth from hanging up on the edge of the feed ramp, causing an FTF. I don't have access to a range where I can shoot ballistic gel or even water jugs so I have no way to test my theory. Has anyone else tried these?
I believe Longshot is the best powder for 9x25. Just seems to work well without pressure spikes. I loaded with CCI 350 primers from 10.0 grains of Longshot to 11.1 grains behind the 125 HAP's and just started to get primer flattening at 11.1. I have been using 10.6 grs. as a hot load with the 125 HAP's. Accurate load, as all my longshot loads tend to be.
I installed a 22 lb spring in my glock and it works fine even with 10mm. I also noticed that the heavier spring improved accuracy on both 10mm and 9x25's.

I'm curious to see what throat erosion will be like on the 9x25. Any comments on barrel life?
I have been considering a Mech Tech Carbine chambered for 9x25, anyone out there have one?

_The_Shadow
11-10-2012, 09:27
Do you have some CHRONO numbers for your work? If yes please post some so we can relate to your work...

mrpipesmkr
11-10-2012, 10:21
Do you have some CHRONO numbers for your work? If yes please post some so we can relate to your work...


Sorry, no chrono numbers. Wish I had access to one. My post was mainly my way of letting you and others know that your postings are greatly appreciated.

mrpipesmkr
11-10-2012, 10:42
Do you have some CHRONO numbers for your work? If yes please post some so we can relate to your work...

I am curious to know if you are anyone else has tried the Hornady HAP's 125 gr. Might be a great hollow point for 9x25.

Did you ever work up loads for 800x?

veprx4
11-22-2012, 16:31
http://img191.imageshack.us/img191/1936/dsc6235d.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/191/dsc6235d.jpg/)

G20, 4.6"LW bbl, Speer .355" 125gr TMJ, WIN primers, PP powder
Using barrel as headspace gauge...cases flush with barrel hood over the chamber. Best effort had 8 out of 10 rds fired. FTF rds looked like above pic. Light primer strike. I am experienced reloader. Never had this issue even with .357Sig. Have tried dialing the sizing die back and forth to set the shoulder for proper headspace. As far as I can tell the headspace seems correct, but I keep getting FTF w/above primer strikes. Dillon dies used throughout. Have used 90gr XTP projectiles and 9x25 DT and resized 10mm brass. OAL running 1.285" with the 125gr pills. Where am I going wrong?
TIA for any help you guys can provide.

_The_Shadow
11-22-2012, 17:05
veprx4, How dow the barrel fit in your slide? Does it move front to back any when in lockup condition? If it slides any while it is in lockup then the movement, that would change the strike at striker impact causing a soft hit.

With your magazine and chamber empty assemble the pistol while the open muzzle is pointing to the ceiling, place a pencil inside the barrel eraser down, against the breech, squeeze the trigger to release the striker, the pencil should jump up fairly high if the striker is hitting with force.

Be sure to check that the safety plunger is in the correct orientation in the slide as that could interfere with proper strike function. The plunger channel needs to be clean of lube and debris for proper function of the plunger & striker.

If all of that checks out, headspace is very critical to the proper alignment of the casing with respect to the breech face and under the extractor hook.

Case sizing needs to be less than 0.002" inside to flush for best fit. When testing in your barrel, be sure to push on the casehead, to seat it inside the chamber as far as it will go, while looking at the headspacing. Do this with an empty sized casing without a bullet to check things to eliminate the bullet or case neck as an issue.

COAL should be 1.250"-1.260" to have good neck tention on the bullets to help elimenate setback of bullets.

Good luck getting things sorted out!

mrpipesmkr, no I haven't had the chance to work with the 800X in the 9x25 yet, but I will visit that soon! Just a few things going on taking precedence...sorry!

veprx4
11-22-2012, 17:34
veprx4, How dow the barrel fit in your slide? Does it move front to back any when in lockup condition? If it slides any while it is in lockup then the movement, that would change the strike at striker impact causing a soft hit.

With your magazine and chamber empty assemble the pistol while the open muzzle is pointing to the ceiling, place a pencil inside the barrel eraser down, against the breech, squeeze the trigger to release the striker, the pencil should jump up fairly high if the striker is hitting with force.

Be sure to check that the safety plunger is in the correct orientation in the slide as that could interfere with proper strike function. The plunger channel needs to be clean of lube and debris for proper function of the plunger & striker.

If all of that checks out, headspace is very critical to the proper alignment of the casing with respect to the breech face and under the extractor hook.

Case sizing needs to be less than 0.002" inside to flush for best fit. When testing in your barrel, be sure to push on the casehead, to seat it inside the chamber as far as it will go, while looking at the headspacing. Do this with an empty sized casing without a bullet to check things to eliminate the bullet or case neck as an issue.

COAL should be 1.250"-1.260" to have good neck tention on the bullets to help elimenate setback of bullets.

Good luck getting things sorted out!

mrpipesmkr, no I haven't had the chance to work with the 800X in the 9x25 yet, but I will visit that soon! Just a few things going on taking precedence...sorry!

Tks for the feedback. Barrel lockup is fine. Have already tried pencil test. No problems there. Took slide apart and cleaned the striker and channel thinking that grime was the problem. It wasn't. I swapped out the striker assembly from my G21 to my G20 and will try it again at the range tomorrow. Taking all the unfired rds and will run some through again. I will check the headspace per your advice. I figured either OAL or headspace or both are causing my problems. Very frustrating, because I'm used to having very reliable reloading results. I'll post again after the range trip. Tks again.

mrpipesmkr
11-23-2012, 12:18
Veprx4,
I agree with everything Shadow says, but would add some things I experienced.
Dillon factory loads had way too much set back on the shoulders for my LWD chamber. Be sure you are sizing to your chamber (as I believe you are) and when checking headspace be sure you round is fully seated in the chamber.

During bullet seating the short neck and shoulder of a 9x25 can be distorted which makes for a tight fit in the chamber. Over crimping will cause a swell in the neck which can prevent full chambering.

I switched to a Ghost 3.5# trigger set up on my G20 and got a few light strikes on 9x25 (none on 10mm) . If i remember correctly, the Ghost kit came with the 4# striker spring and after I put the factory Glock spring back in the problem was eliminated. Also, with the light striker spring installed the trigger safety would not re-set after I took up slack on the trigger and released it, creating an un-safe condition.

If you havn't already done so, I would suggest a 20# or 22# recoil spring in your G20. I run a 22# in mine and when I installed it I experienced a more positive lock up and even improved accuracy. My belief is that the heavier spring helps to overcome slight variations in headspace caused by things like fouling in the chamber, insuring that the barrel fully locks up.

Don't give up on the 9x25. It's a great round and about the most fun you can have with a pistol!

veprx4
11-23-2012, 15:45
Veprx4,
I agree with everything Shadow says, but would add some things I experienced.
Dillon factory loads had way too much set back on the shoulders for my LWD chamber. Be sure you are sizing to your chamber (as I believe you are) and when checking headspace be sure you round is fully seated in the chamber.

During bullet seating the short neck and shoulder of a 9x25 can be distorted which makes for a tight fit in the chamber. Over crimping will cause a swell in the neck which can prevent full chambering.

I switched to a Ghost 3.5# trigger set up on my G20 and got a few light strikes on 9x25 (none on 10mm) . If i remember correctly, the Ghost kit came with the 4# striker spring and after I put the factory Glock spring back in the problem was eliminated. Also, with the light striker spring installed the trigger safety would not re-set after I took up slack on the trigger and released it, creating an un-safe condition.

If you havn't already done so, I would suggest a 20# or 22# recoil spring in your G20. I run a 22# in mine and when I installed it I experienced a more positive lock up and even improved accuracy. My belief is that the heavier spring helps to overcome slight variations in headspace caused by things like fouling in the chamber, insuring that the barrel fully locks up.

Don't give up on the 9x25. It's a great round and about the most fun you can have with a pistol!

Tks for your feedback. My G20 was bought used at a local show a year or two ago. Running a DPM recoil reduction system with their recoil guide and spring...don't recall the spring rating. Also has the 3.5 connector with factory spring. Today I ran 11 test rounds through the pistol. Only 3 of 11 fired on the first trigger pull. Good solid strike on fired rounds. I cycled the remaining rounds by hand letting the slide ease gently into battery. All rounds fired second time around. A range staffer looked at the headspace and thought it was a tad below the chamber hood. He recommended dialing back the sizing die a bit more, so the loaded round would require a light push into the chamber versus dropping right in. This supported his theory of the rounds going off when slide eased into battery. He reasoned the not quite properly headspaced rounds were going too far into chamber by the normal slide recoil force. I will adjust sizing die back a bit more and try again next range visit. Tks for your help.

_The_Shadow
11-23-2012, 16:35
veprx4, in my initial reply I actually suspected the headspacing, as it is critical with this round. However, I tryied to cover all the bases that could lead to the situation you were experiencing!

I go for 0.00" or flush to the chamber hood with my chambered rounds...

Part of the learning curve with the 9x25Dillon and the 357SIG rounds, good experience all around!

mrpipesmkr
11-23-2012, 16:35
veprx4,

I used a flat feeler gauge to measure headspace on my reloads. Set at a tight 0.002. With the naked eye you can barley see the relief of the shell base below the hood and with my thumb I can just feel a slight difference as I rub it over the hood and shell base. Hope this gives you an Idea of where it should be at.

I use an ISMI captured guide rod with the 22# spring and run a buffer technologies buffer. The rod works great. Occasionaly the allen head screw will work loose during a long range session of 10's and 9x25's even though I use lock tight. The buffer seems to help but I'm not sure it's needed with the plastic frame.

Sounds like you are on the way to solving your problem! Enjoy your 9x25!

veprx4
11-23-2012, 17:46
veprx4, in my initial reply I actually suspected the headspacing, as it is critical with this round. However, I tryied to cover all the bases that could lead to the situation you were experiencing!

I go for 0.00" or flush to the chamber hood with my chambered rounds...

Part of the learning curve with the 9x25Dillon and the 357SIG rounds, good experience all around!

Agreed, but I had none of these issues reloading 357SIG. Go figure. :-)

veprx4
11-23-2012, 17:48
veprx4,

I used a flat feeler gauge to measure headspace on my reloads. Set at a tight 0.002. With the naked eye you can barley see the relief of the shell base below the hood and with my thumb I can just feel a slight difference as I rub it over the hood and shell base. Hope this gives you an Idea of where it should be at.

I use an ISMI captured guide rod with the 22# spring and run a buffer technologies buffer. The rod works great. Occasionaly the allen head screw will work loose during a long range session of 10's and 9x25's even though I use lock tight. The buffer seems to help but I'm not sure it's needed with the plastic frame.

Sounds like you are on the way to solving your problem! Enjoy your 9x25!
Thank you sir. Hopefully I'll dial it in soon. Good idea about feeler gauge. I'll give that a try.

dm1906
11-24-2012, 11:32
You could tighten up the headspace by case sizing, but that really cuts your margin of error to a point of increased FTF/F possibility.

This shouldn't be an issue, with a Glock. Regardless of how/where the shoulder is spacing, the case head should space on the extractor, and the striker should find the primer, under any circumstance. I suspect either a short striker (worn out or modified), or a bad extractor (worn out or modified), or a worn/broken extractor spring/plunger. These are cheap parts, readily available. The case length allowance for the 10mm is .984-.992", significantly more than .002". Other cartridges fired from the same platform don't (regularly) see this issue, including .40S&W, which spaces solely on the extractor (when using the 10mm barrel, OEM or aftermarket), and especially .357Sig. If the problem were, in fact, the shoulder length spacing, we'd see this a LOT more with the other cartridges fired from the same platform.

Forcing the headspace by lengthening the shoulder may leave you with another issue, which is more of an issue, and can be dangerous. It won't take much residue to space the cartridge back far enough to prevent full battery lock-up, and may allow firing in the condition. This can also be caused by dirt, bullet lube, powder fouling, lead/copper particles, and even a dented/deformed case. As you are adjusting your shoulder length, keep a VERY close watch on the primer strike location. If any round appears to hit off-center, you've crossed that threshold.

Just a note for comparison:
In regards to pistol-fired shouldered cartridges, they set up and react very different from their rifle counterparts. I load and shoot .38-40 WCF, which is a shouldered (and rimmed) cartridge, fired from a Ruger BH, and lever action rifles. I have new .38-40 brass, but make most them from .44 Mag cases. New formed cases are not reliable, and must be fired once before they are (fire-forming). I size them long, so they will barely allow cylinder turning (zero headspace). Once fired, they will be perfectly headspaced to .004-.006", and allow for very easy rotation, and remain at that space, load after load. The same method is used for forming rifle brass, but a more typical post-firing headspace will be .001-.002", regardless of the cartridge caliber (although some require more than one firing).

veprx4
11-24-2012, 15:06
You could tighten up the headspace by case sizing, but that really cuts your margin of error to a point of increased FTF/F possibility.

This shouldn't be an issue, with a Glock. Regardless of how/where the shoulder is spacing, the case head should space on the extractor, and the striker should find the primer, under any circumstance. I suspect either a short striker (worn out or modified), or a bad extractor (worn out or modified), or a worn/broken extractor spring/plunger. These are cheap parts, readily available. The case length allowance for the 10mm is .984-.992", significantly more than .002". Other cartridges fired from the same platform don't (regularly) see this issue, including .40S&W, which spaces solely on the extractor (when using the 10mm barrel, OEM or aftermarket), and especially .357Sig. If the problem were, in fact, the shoulder length spacing, we'd see this a LOT more with the other cartridges fired from the same platform.

Forcing the headspace by lengthening the shoulder may leave you with another issue, which is more of an issue, and can be dangerous. It won't take much residue to space the cartridge back far enough to prevent full battery lock-up, and may allow firing in the condition. This can also be caused by dirt, bullet lube, powder fouling, lead/copper particles, and even a dented/deformed case. As you are adjusting your shoulder length, keep a VERY close watch on the primer strike location. If any round appears to hit off-center, you've crossed that threshold.

Just a note for comparison:
In regards to pistol-fired shouldered cartridges, they set up and react very different from their rifle counterparts. I load and shoot .38-40 WCF, which is a shouldered (and rimmed) cartridge, fired from a Ruger BH, and lever action rifles. I have new .38-40 brass, but make most them from .44 Mag cases. New formed cases are not reliable, and must be fired once before they are (fire-forming). I size them long, so they will barely allow cylinder turning (zero headspace). Once fired, they will be perfectly headspaced to .004-.006", and allow for very easy rotation, and remain at that space, load after load. The same method is used for forming rifle brass, but a more typical post-firing headspace will be .001-.002", regardless of the cartridge caliber (although some require more than one firing).
dm1906, thanks for your excellent feedback. It's back to the range for another try tomorrow. If my headspace adjustments don't solve the issue, then I will start replacing parts.

veprx4
11-25-2012, 16:21
Success! Fired over 50 reloaded 9x25 Dillon rounds with no issues whatsoever.:cool: I used a metal straight edge and a piece of .003" shim stock to check the headspace adjustment before locking down the sizing die. Thanks to all for your helpful feedback. :cheers:

mrpipesmkr
11-25-2012, 17:46
Success! Fired over 50 reloaded 9x25 Dillon rounds with no issues whatsoever.:cool: I used a metal straight edge and a piece of .003" shim stock to check the headspace adjustment before locking down the sizing die. Thanks to all for your helpful feedback. :cheers:


That's great! I'm sure you will have a lot of fun with 9x25.
DM1906 had alot of great points which I do agree with generaly. I would comment that one big reason to have proper headspacing 0n 9x25 and 357sig is that proper headspace will increase the life of your brass. These bottlenecks tend to crack at the neck and shoulders so the less the brass has to blow out to fit your chamber the more times you can use it. Also I have a Berretta in 357sig that won't reliably headspace off the extractor.

_The_Shadow
11-25-2012, 19:39
veprx4, Like it when a plan comes together! Good to see things are working out for you and this cartridge...

JTknives
03-24-2013, 22:17
I thought I would ask a question to you guys. I got the 9x25 bug again and want to play with the 158gr deap curl .357 Speer bullet. Looking for some advice on powder and start charge.

mrpipesmkr
03-24-2013, 23:29
JT, I can't be much help to you because I have no actual experience loading 158 grain bullets in 9x25. I tend to shoot 125 gr. My Lee manual shows a 357sig load for a 147 gr XTP. I would think if you started at the starting loads for that weight bullet (or slightly less) you would be OK. With Longshot, they show a starting load of 6.5 grains.
If you have 9x25 147gr loads worked up these should give you some idea of a starting load. If not you might try some 147gr before playing with the 158 gr.
Do you intend to size the Speer's down to .355 or .356? I shoot .356 in my 9x25 with no problems but have not shot .357. I think it would work but may contribute to higher pressure.
Another thing to consider is that the .357 diameter may cause jams due to the width of the loaded round at the neck. With .356 I have noticed that I can't use too much crimp as this can create a slight bulge which can prevent the round from fully seating in a tight chamber.
If you don't size the bullets down it might also be a good idea to have some freebore off the forcing cone at least until you have worked up loads and OAL. Of course this may already be dictated by the length of your mag, chamber ect.
Let us know what you come up with.
P.S. Nice to know someone is able to get reloading supplies, tough to find around here right now!

_The_Shadow
03-25-2013, 08:16
Hello JT, someone mentioned they were loading a 180 grain but I don't remember any load data being discussed.

Gun-adian did some 147 gr with Blue Dot
Hornady 147 gr. JHP-XTP.
CCI #300 primers
5 shot strings

8.5 gr. Blue Dot
Velocity:
1) 1197 fps
2) 1124 fps
3) 1178 fps
4) 1201 fps
5) 1192 fps

9 gr. Blue Dot
Velocity:
1) 1304 fps
2) 1270 fps
3) 1267 fps
4) 1297 fps
5) 1299 fps

While I think it is possible, velocity wise I think the velocity may be a little too low for bullet performance. (fearing the Deep Curl were more for 357 carbine and 35Rem rifle)

Bullet length will be long and seated depths occupying case capacity. I have shot 38Spl using cast and gas checked RCBS 180 gr Silhouette bullets using 8.0 grains of Blue Dot so I don't thing that would be a bad starting point.

Powders like 296/H110 may provide more push with less pressures.

Good luck! I'll be looking to see how you do.

snowG29
04-02-2013, 22:35
Hornady 90gr. XTP over 14.0 gr. Blue Dot (WLP)

Had one case separate from this small batch (50 rounds)... Brass reloaded for third time. Some of the case shoulders/necks do not look consistent. Used 9mm expanding die as well.

Shoddy work on my part? Ever have this happen?

Thanks, any feedback would be appreciated.

http://i45.tinypic.com/15xob49.jpg

http://i49.tinypic.com/24ep2zb.jpg

_The_Shadow
04-02-2013, 22:49
OK first thing is head spacing...It looks like you are setting the shoulder back too much. The case is going inside the chamber too deeply and when held by the extractor hook the case is stretching out when fired. The way to correct that is to back off on the sizing die, you will want the case to fit the barrel and be within 0.0"(Flush to the barrel hood) to -0.002" below as a max.

What is happening is every time you fire them, it is working the brass at the shoulder and usually the separation occurs at the shoulder or neck, however it can separate anywhere on the case as it tries to stretch back out, to fill the chamber dimensions.

I size mine to be as flush with the barrel hood as possible. The less case expansion front to back the better!

Good luck and best regards!

Yogi86
04-09-2013, 23:47
Does anyone have any experience reloading 9x25 Dillon useing Berrys 115 grain thick plated hollow base bullets? Is there any problems using these hollow base bullets?

_The_Shadow
04-10-2013, 07:36
Yogi86, welcome to the forum! :) Here is my thinking on them, the thicker plating should work...I had asked Berry's a while back about their thicker plating for 10mm and they did say that it would be better at higher velocities. With the 9x25, Bullet set back is what you want to avoid, so being careful with neck tension is crucial. Don't over crimp them as to cut thru the plating.
If they were 0.356" diameter that would even be better.

A lot of people don't realize that the Gold Dots are thick plated. Berry's was due to come out with a Plated HP of their own, they were said to be shipping to cartridge manufactures first then as a component product.

Best regards and good luck!

Gun-adian
06-28-2013, 17:00
Hey gang. It's been awhile.

I found some more 9x25 data/results from about two years ago. Hope this helps.....

Gun - Glock 20
Barrel - 6" Lone Wolf
Bullet - Speer 158 gr. JHP .357 Dia. (Part #4211)
Brass - reformed Starline 10mm
Primer - CCI #350
Powder - Hodgdon H-110

Velocity @ 12 gr.
1) 1202
2) 1182
3) 1190
4) 1183
5) 1150
Extreme Spread : 52

Velocity @ 12.5 gr.
1) 1166
2) 1202
3) 1219
4) 1234
5) 1203
Extreme Spread : 68

Velocity @ 13 gr.
1) 1221
2) 1242
3) 1229
4) 1246
5) 1241
Extreme Spread : 25

Velocity @ 13.5 gr.
1) 1241
2) 1314
3) 1323
4) 1280
5) 1306
Extreme Spread : 82

Velocity @ 14 gr.
1) 1328
2) 1330
3) 1319
4) 1335
5) 1332
Extreme Spread : 16

14 gr. looks good for consistancy. I MAY look at squeezing a little more out of it, but I like what I see so far. Everything worked as it should and seemed accurate enough. I don't recall the brass being flung into the next time zone, either. IIRC, I was short on time so a dedicated accuracy test never happened.

As always, this was MY gun. Your gun might behave differently so work up slowly.

I think I now have a semi-auto .357 Mag without having to shell out a bunch of $$$$ for a Coonan or Desert Eagle. It's smaller and holds more bullets, too :)

Mike.

dm1906
06-28-2013, 17:35
Hey gang. It's been awhile.

I found some more 9x25 data/results from about two years ago. Hope this helps.....

Gun - Glock 20
Barrel - 6" Lone Wolf
Bullet - Speer 158 gr. JHP .357 Dia. (Part #4211)
Brass - reformed Starline 10mm
Primer - CCI #350
Powder - Hodgdon H-110

Velocity @ 12 gr.
1) 1202
2) 1182
3) 1190
4) 1183
5) 1150
Extreme Spread : 52

Velocity @ 12.5 gr.
1) 1166
2) 1202
3) 1219
4) 1234
5) 1203
Extreme Spread : 68

Velocity @ 13 gr.
1) 1221
2) 1242
3) 1229
4) 1246
5) 1241
Extreme Spread : 25

Velocity @ 13.5 gr.
1) 1241
2) 1314
3) 1323
4) 1280
5) 1306
Extreme Spread : 82

Velocity @ 14 gr.
1) 1328
2) 1330
3) 1319
4) 1335
5) 1332
Extreme Spread : 16

14 gr. looks good for consistancy. I MAY look at squeezing a little more out of it, but I like what I see so far. Everything worked as it should and seemed accurate enough. I don't recall the brass being flung into the next time zone, either. IIRC, I was short on time so a dedicated accuracy test never happened.

As always, this was MY gun. Your gun might behave differently so work up slowly.

I think I now have a semi-auto .357 Mag without having to shell out a bunch of $$$$ for a Coonan or Desert Eagle. It's smaller and holds more bullets, too :)

Mike.

Please pardon my rudeness......

Unless you've slugged your barrel AND throat, and find they are, in fact OVERSIZE, this load will destroy your barrel, and possibly the rest of the pistol, eventually. The 9x25D is a 3.55" bore (my LWD 6" slugs at 3.547, with a tight throat). Oversize jacketed bullets will erode the throat very quickly, in as little as a couple dozen rounds, and faster at +.002" at high velocity/pressure. You can get away with +.001", but the bore will still overheat quickly. If H110 wasn't so forgiving, you'd have a real problem. 14 grains is a very healthy dose, all else being ideal (around 14.5 is max for a 124 gr. correct size FMJ @ 1529). With the big charge and way oversize bullet, the pressures may get into the ozone. Slug that bore!

_The_Shadow
06-28-2013, 18:25
I got some trigger tome with the new G-20SF using the Lone Wolf Dist. 6" 9x25Dillon barrel and got to see some real good numbers June 8th 2013...
Dropped in the LWD 6" 9x25Dillon barrel and got the numbers I was looking for with my handloads...
121 gr Zero JHP's 0.356" over 10.5 grains of LongShot
1610 fps case expansion 0.4280"
1591 fps case expansion 0.4280"
1652 fps case expansion 0.4280"
1648 fps case expansion 0.4280"
Primers moderately flat

110 gr Remington JHP 0.357" over 10.5 grains of LongShot
1738 fps case expansion 0.4280"
1732 fps case expansion 0.4280"
Primers slightly flat

125 gr Lyman Cast Devastator HP 0.356" Zombie Green painted over 10.5 grains of LongShot
1642 fps case expansion 0.4275"
Primers moderately flat

Gun-adian
06-28-2013, 23:06
@DM1906 - I don't consider costructive criticism a rudeness.

My bore slugs out at .356" exactly. I've been experimenting with .357" bullets in this gun for a bit, up over 200 rounds. I've fired .355" 90 gr. Hornady XTP's (2000fps) side by side with .357" 110 gr. Speer GDHP's (1850fps) with no issues. The fired brass shows no signs of over-pressure. As I don't have access to a ballistics lab, I have no idea as to actual pressure. The only signs I can go on are flat primers, over-stretched cases and olympic distance brass flinging. In fact, the 10mm barrel throws the empties further than the 9x25 barrel.

I invite you to view my previous results on this forum. (Post #50, 51, 54, and 60)

Thanks for your input. As long as we keep asking questions, we all keep learning.

Mike

_The_Shadow
11-09-2013, 20:11
Underwood 9x25Dillon Speer 125gr TMJ Pull-Down
Cartridge is from Ammo Manufacture: Underwood 9x25Dillon Speer 125gr TMJ
Ballistics Information: 9x25 Dillon
Muzzle Velocity: 1700 fps
Muzzle Energy: 802 ft. lbs
Brass Make/Headstamp: Star Line – Brass 10mm headstamp
Bullet Make/Weight/Construction/Info; Length 0.5400”/Dia. 0.3555”: Speer 125gr TMJ
actual weight 125.4 grains crimp line 0.3540”
C.O.A.L.: 4 @ 1.2725” & 1@ 1.2580”
Primer: Brass color
Case: Diameter 0.4215” Crimp Diameter 0.3770” Length 0.9885”
Powder Description/Positive ID/Type/Charge Weight: IMR800X 11.0 grains

http://i1086.photobucket.com/albums/j441/_The_Shadow/IMG_0414_zpsb7631e40.jpg

http://i1086.photobucket.com/albums/j441/_The_Shadow/IMG_0415_zps014c0e65.jpg

http://i1086.photobucket.com/albums/j441/_The_Shadow/IMG_0416_zpse9c598ab.jpg

http://i1086.photobucket.com/albums/j441/_The_Shadow/IMG_0417_zps4dcc22a7.jpg

JTknives
11-23-2013, 11:19
I just scored 2 bags of those Remington 95gr Flat Point FMJ bullets. I did some testing of the 90gr gold dot going 2075fps a few months ago. We had Remington come to the store a few months ago. Thy where demoing there new law enforcement ammo to the cops at our range. Thy brought in a ton of ballistic gel. Well after the demo thy wanted to see how the Dillion preformed. So I shot there FBI certified gel with that 90gr gold dot that measured on there chrono at 2075fps. The block jumped quite a bit. When we looked at the gel the results where not good. Bullet penetrated about 1-2" and exploded. The Remington ballistic guy looked it over and said would not be bad for varmints but DO NOT use it for self defense. I asked why and he said the first 2-3" of the gel is considered The skin on a human target. He said you will not make it past the rib cage. He was concerned when I told him I had been carrying these rounds for the last few weeks. He said with this velocity you need at least a 124-125 bullet that can handle the velocity if you are going to use it as carry ammo. I just thought I would pass that along as I know of some people here that think this is a good carry load and I wanted to warn them. Here are some pictures of the ballistic gel below.

So this brings us to the 95gr FP I think it will handle the velocity as it's a solid for the most part. And being a flat point will give it better penetration then a round nose. Any of you guys load these yet?


https://fbcdn-photos-h-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn2/s720x720/1424577_10202934082100051_1235767153_n.jpg

https://fbcdn-photos-b-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/s720x720/544216_10202934082300056_1870744851_n.jpg

https://fbcdn-photos-a-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/s720x720/994977_10202934082420059_2110952143_n.jpg

https://fbcdn-photos-g-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-frc3/s720x720/988356_10202934082820069_979762646_n.jpg

https://fbcdn-photos-d-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-frc3/s720x720/1452565_10202934083220079_1085812179_n.jpg

JTknives
11-23-2013, 11:23
Ya there is no mistaking that is for sure 800X. Hum 11grs with a 125gr bullet.

Underwood 9x25Dillon Speer 125gr TMJ Pull-Down
Cartridge is from Ammo Manufacture: Underwood 9x25Dillon Speer 125gr TMJ
Ballistics Information: 9x25 Dillon
Muzzle Velocity: 1700 fps
Muzzle Energy: 802 ft. lbs
Brass Make/Headstamp: Star Line – Brass 10mm headstamp
Bullet Make/Weight/Construction/Info; Length 0.5400”/Dia. 0.3555”: Speer 125gr TMJ
actual weight 125.4 grains crimp line 0.3540”
C.O.A.L.: 4 @ 1.2725” & 1@ 1.2580”
Primer: Brass color
Case: Diameter 0.4215” Crimp Diameter 0.3770” Length 0.9885”
Powder Description/Positive ID/Type/Charge Weight: IMR800X 11.0 grains

http://i1086.photobucket.com/albums/j441/_The_Shadow/IMG_0414_zpsb7631e40.jpg

http://i1086.photobucket.com/albums/j441/_The_Shadow/IMG_0415_zps014c0e65.jpg

http://i1086.photobucket.com/albums/j441/_The_Shadow/IMG_0416_zpse9c598ab.jpg

http://i1086.photobucket.com/albums/j441/_The_Shadow/IMG_0417_zps4dcc22a7.jpg

_The_Shadow
11-23-2013, 15:08
JTKnives, congrats on the Remington 95 grain Flat Point FMJ bullets.Flat Point FMJ bullets. Thanks for you gelatin results with the 90 gr GD.

Yes, the small 90 grain GD projectiles, don't seem hold up well at 9x25 velocities and longer range accuracy from my 5" barrel was pie plate size.

I recently tested some 0.357" 110 grain JHP's @ 1735 fps for my new to me 6" BBL, that were interesting. I may run these thru the 0.356" sizer. However I'm still trying to put my hands on some Speer 0.357 Speer in 110 grain and someone is sending me a few Gold Dot 135 grain to test with. Looking forward to running them!

Best regards!

JTknives
11-23-2013, 15:36
The guy above that said using oversized bullets will destroy your barrel is WRONG. Pressure is pressure is pressure plain and simple. Bigger bullet would be more pressure if the load was not worked for that bullet size. I have been shooting larger bullets for a long time and still good as new.

JTknives
11-25-2013, 12:21
Ok I tested my 158gr 357mag gold dots.
CCI350, 158gr GD .357, 11gr AA#7, 6" Jarvis barrel= 1400fps says quickload.

Everything ran fine and primers looked great. I do sometimes get a few round that wonder fully go into battery. I think this is because of the larger bullet and once the chamber gets dirty the neck of the case sticks. I'm going to try sizing the bullets down a little and see if that helps.

https://fbcdn-photos-b-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-frc3/s720x720/1473046_10202951889705230_586360935_n.jpg

https://fbcdn-photos-h-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-frc3/s720x720/1451380_10202951889425223_1297449657_n.jpg

_The_Shadow
11-25-2013, 18:51
Thanks for the report, So far I haven't had any issues with feeding of the 0.357" but haven't shot too many. With 0.356" no issues either even though the LWD barrels are great chamber quality, tighter fit. Like you said the dirtier they get you can see issues, such is the case with a 40S&W Storm Lake conversion I have. One thing to look at is the crimp for a wrinkle on longer cases vs, setup for slightly shorter ones.

BTW...What was your COAL setting with the 158's?

Also I measured the water capacity the other day for a Double Tap nickel case. QuickLoads may use the 24.2 grains of water of the 10mm, however the necking down changes that capacity...

Double Tap 9x25Dillon nickel length 0.9820” case weight un-sized with spent primer 77.4 grains

With water un-sized weight with water 100.6 grains diff 23.2 grains
With water re-sized weight with water 99.8 grains (case mouth sized) diff 22.4 grains

JTknives
11-25-2013, 22:40
That's a good point. Just looked on quickloads and it said 24.9gr h2o. So it's way off. Let me put in the numbers you had and see how it changes the pressure. Oh and I loaded thoes 158gr to 1.25" COAL

22.4= 50,702psi @ 1481fps
23.2= 44,107psi @ 1441fps

Ya it had the 10mm h20 case capacity for the 9x25. Facepalm

_The_Shadow
11-26-2013, 11:40
That's a good point. Just looked on quickloads and it said 24.9gr h2o. So it's way off. Let me put in the numbers you had and see how it changes the pressure. Oh and I loaded thoes 158gr to 1.25" COAL

22.4= 50,702psi @ 1481fps
23.2= 44,107psi @ 1441fps

Ya it had the 10mm h20 case capacity for the 9x25. Facepalm

The reason I brought it up was someone was running some numbers in QuickLoads the other day for me, and mentioned the water capacity numbers, so that inspired me to set up and test the water capacity in grains of weight.

The primers looked good on your test, and the pressures values from QL shows some interesting differences! :shocked:
I don't know just how accurate the pressure values are in the QL program with this cartridge, but I assume they are in the ballpark. :upeyes:

In a test a while back I was shooting some of my cast Lyman Devastator 125 grain HP and a portion of the case neck had cracked upon shooting. It was a small "U" shaped section about halfway down the case neck. I attributed that to case being reworked a few times! :dunno:

It's all good, live and learn! :supergrin:

JTknives
12-02-2013, 02:04
Now I'm kind of torn, at this point I would work up a little more as the primers still look good. But quickloads is tossing me numbers that say I'm over max. But really what is max? max is different for different guns. I know saami has a set max psi so it's safe in all guns. I have shot this glock enough that I know what it can handle and it will take loads that give me a much flatter primer then I'm getting. When I get a min I will calculate the actual tensile strength of the glock chamber.

_The_Shadow
12-02-2013, 08:33
JT, that's what I was looking at even though I don't have the QL program. Given the 357Sig is set at 40,000 PSI and based on various loadings we see from ammo makers showing pressures way over the 37,500 PSI, like those from SwampFox & Underwood, I am still scratching my head! We continually look at the primers as an indicator but these same primers are used for higher load specs like that of the 45 Win Mag @ 40,000 CUP whereas the 454 uses a small rifle primer @ loads upto 50,000 CUP.

I think 42,000 PSI is a reasonably safe number in guns with good cartridge/chamber support, however some brass still show stresses loaded at these levels, based on the QL numbers.

The only way to know for sure is have a lab test done for actual pressure values.

JTknives
12-03-2013, 22:24
I figured out my problem with the gun not going into battery. See I would size and expand then check for head spacing. But I just realized that after seating the bullet it was changing the head spacing just a tiny bit. This means I was no longer at a good head spacing I was actually longer by just enough that it would cause a problem. So I sized shorter then I would normally go then load it and check for head spacing and it's perfect. So it's funny how all this time is was something as simple as checking head spacing at the wrong time in the reloading process. The other thing that was causing a problem was to much crimp. It was swelling something and causing it to stick in the chamber. Now I'm not crimping at all and it's perfect. Thought I would pass this along just in case other people are scratching there heads.

Sniper168
02-24-2014, 10:57
I'm new here, brand new, and this is my first post. Working up 9x25 loads and thought you all might like to see....

800x Powder:

Nostler 124gr. JHP
CCI# 350 primers
Once-Fired brass
800x @ 11.0gr.
OAL = 1.250" (+/- .004)
1) 1702
2) 1712
3) 1690
4) 1736
5) 1696
6) --
7) 1652
8) 1715
9) 1630
10) 1682
AVG: 1690

Nostler 124gr. JHP
CCI# 350 primers
Once-Fired brass
800x @ 11.5gr.
OAL = 1.250" (+/- .004)
1) 1739
2) 1772
3) 1722
4) 1745
5) 1755
6) 1710
7) 1793
8) 1783
9) 1724
10) --
AVG: 1749

Nostler 124gr. JHP
CCI# 350 primers
Once-Fired brass
800x @ 12.0gr.
OAL = 1.250" (+/- .004)
1) 1832
2) 1827
3) 1860
4) 1829
5) 1765
6) 1820
7) 1818
8) 1839
9) 1774
10) 1808
AVG: 1817

Hornady HAP 115gr. JHP
CCI# 350 primers
Once-Fired brass
800x @ 12.0gr.
OAL = 1.250" (+/- .005)
1) 1952
2) 1847
3) 1879
4) 1925
5) 1871
6) 1866
7) 1865
8) 1915
9) 1940
10) 1910
AVG: 1897

Hornady XTP 90gr. JHP
CCI# 350 primers
Once-Fired brass
800x @ 12.0gr.
OAL = 1.250" (+/- .005)
1) 1997
2) 2004
3) 2007
4) 1957
5) 1952
6) 2005
7) 2002
8) 1982
9) 1907
10) 1976
AVG: 1988

BlueDot powder:

Hornady XTP 90gr. JHP
CCI# 350 primers
Once-Fired brass
BlueDot @ 15.5gr. *compressed load*
OAL = 1.250" (+/- .005)
1) 2177
2) 2023
3) ---
4) 2048
5) 1971
6) 1975
7) 1996
8) 1955
9) 1965
10 1985
AVG: 2010

I have a few (6-8) cases split like this...

A few primers fell out of their pockets prior to shooting - probably b/c they were once-fired brass, the pockets may have just gotten deformed... keep an eye on this.

On a final note.... in this video of my reliability testing, I cover an issue you all may have seen. Although the round would fire, eject, and successfully reload a new round, the Glock 20 trigger would not be reset. I had to "re-cock" it several times.

Please watch and let me know what you think....
If I failed to properly attach the video, you can find it here:
http://mydatabase.myftp.org/sniper168/9x25_Reliability_Test

_The_Shadow
03-04-2014, 18:09
Hello Sniper, welcome to the forum. Thanks for your range report and video. Was that the 6" barrel from Wolf you were using?
Tell us more about your setup...
Recoil system and spring weights?
Do you use a Pass-Through sizing die to recondition the very bottom of the cartridge casing?

Be sure you are not over sizing your brass, The Dillon sizer die doesn't touch my shell holder during sizing as I try to set for the case base to be flush to the barrel hood, with 0.0000" to less than -0.0020" below. It can set the shoulder back too far, thus allowing the cartridge the sit too deep in the chamber, the next firing will stretch the brass back out to fit the chamber again and maybe the cause of the brass case splitting as shown and some will split near the case neck as brass is worked over time. If you work it less during the sizing, it will survive more uses, a little better.

I see you are having to reset the trigger, I am wondering if that is also related to the cartridge headspaces with the shoulder being set back and held in place by the extractor, if you feel the striker trip, but may not ignite the primer, as the force knocks the casing forward. A slight adjustment of raising the sizing die may improve the reliability and lessen the split cases.

In closing let me also invite you to the 10mmFirearms Forum http://10mm-firearms.com/index.php You could post your info there as well.

Best regards!

Sniper168
03-04-2014, 21:11
It is a LWD M20L Conv. to 9x25 (6" threaded barrel)
Wolf 22# Spring kit w/ steel Guide Rod.
I use the Dillon 3-Die setup, and since I don't know what a 'pass-through' sizing die is, I'm guessing I don't.
Everything else on the gun in stock.
I have checked my head spacing and the cases appeared to be seated properly. I'll be taking it all out to the range again this weekend, but am using brand new Starline brass. I will be sure to get some pics/vids and will be using the Glock 21 w/ 9x25 barrel, instead of my G20 frame.

Taterhead
03-04-2014, 22:02
I agree with Shadow's line of thought that the shoulder might be getting bumped back a tad much.


Those are some pretty stout velocities!!


Thanks for sharing the data.

Sniper168
03-09-2014, 18:43
Post corrected below....

Sniper168
03-09-2014, 19:01
I can confirm that getting these buggers necked properly is critical!!

Glock 21 (Gen4)
LWD 6" 10-9x25 conv. barrel

124gr. Nosler JHP
2x Brass
CCI#350
800x @ 12.0 gr.

1) 1812
2) 1771
3) 1891 - Popped primer, enlarged base
4) 1780
5) 1818

5-shot Avg. 1814 fps
* This brass is necked so that it sits under the hood just a hair. This 2x brass just cannot handle the expansion when not properly necked as I've read on here by others -thanks for that info gents.
But now I want to see what load CAN be used w/ 2x brass that is (for lack of a better term) 'over-necked'.
So now I have a few bullets to pull UGH!!!

_The_Shadow
03-09-2014, 20:08
Thanks for your report, and posting your results! :)

You might just have to shoot them at a lower charge rate to fire form them without splitting them...When I first started sizing I had noticed I too oversized them and they sat just below the hood, but I quickly learned to adjust the die upward.

You can put permanent marker on the casing to see if it is resting on the shoulder in your barrels instead of the case mouth.

If you don't have "smiles" on you cases you may want to try the pass-through sizer to squeeze the very bottom most section of the brass, it can even squeeze the primer pocket back a little as well. That one which has the popped primer is probably toast.

Sniper168
03-12-2014, 21:02
So I got a little board and thought I'd prove a few friend wrong...
Glock 21 Gen4
Lone Wolf 6" barrel 10-9x25 conversion
New Starline Brass
95gr. FMJ, RN
CCI#350
BlueDot @ 15.5gr.
COL 1.250"
Avg. Vel: 1983

--VS--

ABA Level IIa vest

I layed the vest down onto a packed snow bank and not a solid, immobile object.
I couldn't attach the video directly to this post (not sure if I did it right or not) so here's the direct link.
http://mydatabase.myftp.org/sniper168/Vest_Test

JTknives
03-29-2014, 23:00
All this hot 9x25 Dillion load data has got me thinking. It seams like when it comes to the 9x25 and 10mm the powder company load data is taken with a grain of salt and worked up for each gun. I am guilty of doing this as well with my 9x25 but it gets me thinking of my 50AE desert eagle. I don't know of any one that has pushed that gun over manufactures load data. Keep it safe guys.