Some poachers are just plain stupid [Archive] - Glock Talk

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noway
03-15-2004, 09:51
I had to post this LEO summary on what happens to a poacher who mess with game on your property, here in SW florida.

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SARASOTA COUNTY
On Sun., Feb. 29, Officer Rick Sloan responded to a call from the Sarasota County Sheriff's Office involving a man who had killed a deer. Apparently, the man entered private property and shot a doe in a homeowner's front yard. The suspect then climbed a fence and was pulling the deer back to his truck when several property owners confronted him. As the suspect attempted to drive away, one of the property owners tried to stop him, but the subject swerved around the property owner. Fearing the suspect might escape, the property owner shot a hole in the suspect's truck tire. A short time later, a sheriff's deputy stopped the suspect who had what looked like blood and deer hair on his clothing. After being interviewed by Investigator Mike Frantz, the suspect admitted killing the deer. A .22-caliber scoped rifle, knife, blood stained clothing, and doe deer were seized as evidence. The suspect was charged with taking deer during the closed season and booked into the county jail.
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You got to love it. Some poachers are just plain stupid and brave.

mpol777
03-15-2004, 10:13
I'm of the opinion that all poachers are stupid. This guy just went over and above the call of duty. ;f

firminw
03-15-2004, 23:39
I own 60 acres of prime whitetail habitat and it gets to be a full time job keeping hunters,esp.unauthorized "legal" hunters,run off during season.I dont live on it so I cant even begin to hope to keep poachers policed.What I mean is I leave it up to the law of averages to catch up to the full time poachers in this area.They feed their families all year on deer meat and have been doing so for generations.They are usually the same ones whose families have been on the public dole for generations also.When they get caught they lose their hunting priviledges for 3 years.The viscous cycle starts all over again,they just go back to poaching,go figure.

noway
03-16-2004, 07:16
I highly doubt these people really care about a hunting license . I know of a few guys I talk too ( older & young ) that believe a fence line posted or not , means nothing. The will not give a 2nd thought about crossing a fence to go shoot deer or doves in or out of seasons.

They have been raised & taught that no boundarys exist. How my dad puts it, " in the old ways the land was kinda shared used by everybody and nowadays the hunters that are grewing up still believes it exists that way"

When I was grewing up I hunted on private property in the local area but it was a non-written agreement amongest the neighbors property that it was okay. I wouldn't dare try to cross a private property owner land today that I don't know and try to hunt game on it. That's just plain stupid & wrong.

duncan
04-02-2004, 04:42
I've found some recently poached deers while spring turkey hunting.

Carved up in the woods, meat taken, and scraps for the coyotes.

Just not right.

vafish
04-04-2004, 21:19
Around here the deer are considered pests. Bow season just ended a few weeks ago in the suburbs. If you really wanted to you could deer hunt from August to March.

While I'm sure that there's problems with tresspassers that are hunting deer I don't hear too many complaints about people hunting deer out of season.

I guess it also depends to. Was the poacher some out of work guy who was trying to feed his family? or some idiot selling venison jerky on the side?


News reports rarely tell us enough to make a decision about a persons guilt.

noway
04-04-2004, 22:33
{I guess it also depends to. Was the poacher some out of work guy who was trying to feed his family? or some idiot selling venison jerky on the side?
}

Does it make a difference?

Either way it's illegal and prevents one less deer for the person who trying to hunt legally.

I don't buy the thought of a guy poaching a deer because he is hunger or needs to feed his family. This poacher are plain out criminals.

vafish
04-05-2004, 06:34
To me it does make a difference.

I'm pretty sure I read somemplace in the Old Testament that if you steal a loaf of bread because you are starving it's not a crime.

Where I live and hunt there are way more deer than hunters. Poachers aren't hurting the deer population. Heck my county is paying off duty cops to shoot deer, then dumping the carcasses. If someone is poaching deer and actually feeding their family with the meat I don't have a problem with it. If they are selling the meat, or just taking the antlers and dumping the rest I'd be upset.

That doesn't mean that I support poaching in all forms. I'm just saying that around here, under certain circumstances, I wouldn't convict the guy.

We'll have to agree to disagree on this one then.

noway
04-05-2004, 07:28
{I'm pretty sure I read somemplace in the Old Testament that if you steal a loaf of bread because you are starving it's not a crime.
}

So with this stupid logic, if said hungry guy robs a grocery store he would be okay? What if he broken in and stole your food from the refrig? I guess that would be okay ? What if he robs you at knife/gun point on the street of whatever you have in your pocket, so he can go out and buy some food for himself? I guess that would be okay. ;g

Since you use the bible as reference, the smart thing would be for the hungry man to go to his local church and support group if he was so hungry and need assistance, and not perform any illegal activities inorder to feed his family.

Cali-Glock
04-05-2004, 15:15
Originally posted by noway
{I guess it also depends to. Was the poacher some out of work guy who was trying to feed his family? or some idiot selling venison jerky on the side?
}

Does it make a difference?

Either way it's illegal and prevents one less deer for the person who trying to hunt legally.

I don't buy the thought of a guy poaching a deer because he is hunger or needs to feed his family. This poacher are plain out criminals.

Deer are pests where I live. No ands ifs or buts you can see dozens of deer 365 days a year on my property. I have misplaced both my last hunting license and my hunter's safety certificate, and am not really interested in sitting through 2 days of classes again, and unless I can figure out what the heck I did with those documents, that is what I must do if I ever desire to legally hunt again. I have shot one deer; a wounded deer on my property, that was wounded by a jack***** who had a license and tag. I had no tag, and my license was not current. Was I a criminal? Was I a poacher? I let the jack***** take the deer, and have told him not to step foot on my property again. Yet he can stand inches from my property line in the El Dorado National Forest and wound another deer and track it onto my property and be legal. ;l Bullocks!!!!

Why is it a crime for me to hunt animals on my own property? What happened to property rights?

Oh yeah. I forgot, the King owns all the deer, and I must go to the King and get his permission, pay his taxes, and only hunt when he tells me I can hunt. If I fail to pay homage to the King and jump through his hoops, and pay him his taxes, and hunt only when he says I can hunt, then I am a poacher and a criminal. ;Q

Oh yeah, we have come a long way since the days of feudal lords in England... ;Q I guess I won't be put to death... some improvement.

vafish
04-06-2004, 06:51
Here in VA you can hunt deer on your own property without a license. You still are supossed to check your deer at a check station. (why you would shoot a deer on your own property, drive to the check station, then drive back to your property I don't know.

Also Youth under 12 are not required to have a hunting license as long as they are hunting with an adult. Any deer shot by the youth still has to be checked, but there is no requirement to tag it with the adults tags. It's counted as a youth kill. Also kids under 16 are allowed to shoot an antlerless deer even in Bucks only zones or times.

I love VA!


Noway,

I said we're going to have to agree to disagree on this one.

As long as the person isn't tresspassing on someone elses property I don't care if they shoot deer out of season. After re-reading the case you listed the poacher was on someone elses property. I do have a problem with that. But as far as shooting a deer out of season I think it's less of a crime than driving over the speed limit.

akbound
04-07-2004, 21:12
Sounds like a conversation in "situational ethics" to me! Either it is okay to violate the law.....or it is not!?!

In my opinion there is not even a "moral leg to stand on" if the law in question is not unconstitutional! (And that is just my opinion.) If a man is "too proud" to request assistance to feed his family if that is necessary, how is it somehow morally more acceptable to "break the law" to feed his family? Great lesson for the children!

Most of the poachers I have known "just trying to feed their family".....owned several guns, several vehicles, several TV's, didn't have trouble coming up with money for "toys, beer, or cigarettes".

This isn't the Great Depression! There are available programs to assist people back on their feet when needed. Don't talk to me about pride, while scoffing at the laws. Property rights belong to individual owners of the property. Game and wildlife belong to "all residents" of a state! You have the right to control use of your property, but that right does not extend to violating the laws of your jurisdiction (not even the ones you don't like or agree with). And if you choose to do so, at least be intellectually honest enough to admit that you are indeed poaching....and committing a criminal offense, any and all moralizing to the contrary! Some of us still know what the meaning of "is.....is"! And when necessary we work more than one job if required to, insuring our family is fed! (An awful good reason to not produce more children then you are willing to work to support!) And that means if you happen to live from paycheck to paycheck.....plan for the possibility that your current job may not last forever. INDIVIDUAL RESPONSIBILITY.......a very unpopular concept in our society today!

If I have failed to ingratiate myself with everyone on this thread....so be it!

Dave

firminw
04-07-2004, 22:03
Noway dude,Jesus said "Render unto Ceaser what is Ceasers and to God what is Gods".That means not only paying taxes but also obeying laws esp. those that dont violate Gods Laws.It says nowhere in the Bible,thou shalt poach venison,as in hunt out of season.Dont try to use scripture to justify illegal activity.

noway
04-07-2004, 22:39
{Noway dude,Jesus said "Render unto Ceaser what is Ceasers and to God what is Gods".That means not only paying taxes but also obeying laws esp. those that dont violate Gods Laws.It says nowhere in the Bible,thou shalt poach venison,as in hunt out of season.Dont try to use scripture to justify illegal activity.}

I think you need to go back and re-read who started the biblical statement and it wasn't me, and no-way did I state it was approved by the bible to hunt or in this case illegal poach deer due to the need to feed a person mouth or mouths.

6forsure
04-07-2004, 23:41
"Sounds like a conversation in "situational ethics" to me! Either it is okay to violate the law.....or it is not!?!"

It's ok for lots of them. It's not a defence in court. But morally, it can be fine. Just like doing something that isn't against the law being immoral. In some states adults can legally bang 16yr olds, that's getting pretty immoral with over 20yr old adults. Conversely taking a deer out of season when they're thicker than flies on s*i* isn't immoral.;l

akbound
04-08-2004, 04:42
Hi 6forsure,

Let me insure I understand your argument?!? Two wrongs make a right!?! Is that how you see it?

So it's justifiable for me to commit robbery.......as long as I "only rob those that have more money than s*i* has flies".....is that how it goes? (And for the record.....I think any "man" that would have sex with a "girl".......is a POS too! For the record!)

Just checking.

Dave

P.S. "It depends on what the meaning of is........is"! A statement of ethics of a huge percentage of today's population!

6forsure
04-08-2004, 10:57
Originally posted by akbound
Hi 6forsure,

Let me insure I understand your argument?!? Two wrongs make a right!?! Is that how you see it?

So it's justifiable for me to commit robbery.......as long as I "only rob those that have more money than s*i* has flies".....is that how it goes? (And for the record.....I think any "man" that would have sex with a "girl".......is a POS too! For the record!)

Just checking.

Dave

P.S. "It depends on what the meaning of is........is"! A statement of ethics of a huge percentage of today's population!

No. I see it as the law not necessarily having anything to do with right or wrong. As in the case with your opinion about 'man' 'girl' sexual relationships being wrong even when it's legal (which conflicts with your 'if it's constitutional law, then it's an ethical one' stance IMO). I don't find takeing a deer out of season, if done in a safe manner without trespassing on private property, to be universally wrong especially given their abundant population in some places. I really don't equate an overpopulation of whitetail to someone elses money especially when they are on your own property or in the bar ditch in the middle of nowhere either.

lohmeier
04-08-2004, 16:58
I can understand why someone would take deer out of season to feed their family...but Killing ELK and such just for their Rack and leaving the rest to ROT. JUST WRONG. And worse are the sick ***** who shoot up animals for no reason..just to kill. ;t

akbound
04-08-2004, 17:58
QUOTE:
" No. I see it as the law not necessarily having anything to do with right or wrong. As in the case with your opinion about 'man' 'girl' sexual relationships being wrong even when it's legal (which conflicts with your 'if it's constitutional law, then it's an ethical one' stance IMO). I don't find takeing a deer out of season, if done in a safe manner without trespassing on private property, to be universally wrong especially given their abundant population in some places. I really don't equate an overpopulation of whitetail to someone elses money especially when they are on your own property or in the bar ditch in the middle of nowhere either. END OF QUOTE.


Hi 6forsure,

If you disagree with law(s) as they currently exist then take steps towards reforming or changing the law(s). We are either a society of laws, or we are not! There is no in between.....except for those that practice situational ethics, situational morality (an oxymoron in itself), and you are either "principled" or not.

I don't know you, so I will not make a judgement about your principles. But I do know that if a person can, and is willing to rationalize inappropriate (define that as illegal) behavior as an acceptable reaction to any and every law that they personally do NOT like or agree with......they then forfeit any title to moral or principled behavior.

There are very few criminals in prison that can not give you a personal justification for the behavior that landed them in prison! In other words.....everyone has a reason(s) they broke the law. That does not mean their behavior was either justifiable, appropriate, or acceptable!

And I stand on my earlier assertion that there are better ways for a "responsible" man to feed their family....then resorting to lawlessness, excuses aside!

Dave

P.S. Something we do seem to be in agreement on. A "man" having sex with a "girl" IS ABOUT ETHICS! And any men I would claim as friends, (not merely "boy wanna-be's"), would not take advantage of a girl sexually. But that is just my standard of behavior!

6forsure
04-08-2004, 19:58
"P.S. Something we do seem to be in agreement on. A "man" having sex with a "girl" IS ABOUT ETHICS! And any men I would claim as friends, (not merely "boy wanna-be's"), would not take advantage of a girl sexually. But that is just my standard of behavior!"

I agree. Even though it is perfectally legal in some states. I don't agree with lots of laws, and I do break some of them. Some I don't break, and just don't agree with. Some I agree with. To me, law just doesn't come into play in my decision of right or wrong, and I just don't feel that poaching is wrong in every circumstance. I also find my stance to be principled. I'd also put forth that convicted criminals in prison can be principled or moral depending on what they were convicted for. ;l

akbound
04-08-2004, 22:00
Originally posted by 6forsure
"P.S. Something we do seem to be in agreement on. A "man" having sex with a "girl" IS ABOUT ETHICS! And any men I would claim as friends, (not merely "boy wanna-be's"), would not take advantage of a girl sexually. But that is just my standard of behavior!"

I agree...........................I'd also put forth that convicted criminals in prison can be principled or moral depending on what they were convicted for. ;l

Hi again 6forsure,

Well, we agree on another point that you made above. So it is entirely possible that we may agree on more than we disagree.

My seemingly harsh stand towards poachers is based on my experience. I can "honestly" state that in every instance I have known of poaching personally - the poacher could very well have fed their family without resorting to poaching. In many cases the poaching was done simply because the person has some misguided sense of "being Daniel Boone" or something......and in many more cases it was because they claimed they "needed the food". And in every single case it was because they "mismanaged their money"! And that is a fact.

I am certainly not all knowing, all intelligent, or ignorant enough to believe that there "has never been a case of someone truly left with no other options".....but in today's society there are programs that will assist a person(s) to get back on their feet! And the "I'm too proud to ask for help argument" rings a little hollow to me when a man then turns around and "isn't too proud to knowingly break a law instead of seeking lawful assistance". I've heard it before. I know personally that had the person(s) under discussion been responsible financially it would NOT have been necessary to poach! Poaching is a behavior used by persons not willing to step up to the plate and responsibly be a provider!

I'd like to have more toys. I'd like to have more time to do the things I enjoy. I'd like to "take the easy way out" when times get tough. But a man is defined by his character (or lack of same) when times are tough, as well as when times are easy! And the way I see it is a man can be proud, hold his head up, and be a good example for his family.....or he can make excuses for taking the low road!

Dave

vafish
04-08-2004, 22:02
Originally posted by akbound
QUOTE:
But I do know that if a person can, and is willing to rationalize inappropriate (define that as illegal) behavior as an acceptable reaction to any and every law that they personally do NOT like or agree with......they then forfeit any title to moral or principled behavior.



So by your reasoning any person that knowingly drives even 1 mile an hour over the speeed limit, no matter what their justification, can no longer be considered moral or principled?

By your reasoning all the civil rights leaders of the 60's are imoral and unprincipled because they chose to disobey what they and many others considered unjust laws.

akbound
04-08-2004, 22:20
Originally posted by vafish
So by your reasoning any person that knowingly drives even 1 mile an hour over the speeed limit, no matter what their justification, can no longer be considered moral or principled?

By your reasoning all the civil rights leaders of the 60's are imoral and unprincipled because they chose to disobey what they and many others considered unjust laws.

Hi vafish,

If you are attempting to make a moral equivalency comparison between a poacher and a man that sought to make changes in an immoral society through non-violent protest, you should examine your motives. To say that your argument is a little morally bankrupt would be a decided understatement!

We can play the "what if" game until the cows come home. As a matter of fact our last President was very good at that game, and I understand the lesson wasn't lost to many in our society today. It stills comes down to this. Two wrongs do not make a right! If you haven't come to the point in your life where you understand the difference between what is right, and what is wrong, I am sure I will not dissuade you in a two minute rebuttal! Nor will I attempt to.

Live your life as you see fit! I answer to the person in the mirror each day for my actions, not yours. My behavior sets the personal example for my children, (adult now by the way), not your behavior. And as long as our paths do not cross in the field or woods when you choose to commit an illegal act, I assure you, it will never bother me again. Rationalize any behavior you like.....and you owe me no explanation!

Respectfully,

Dave

P.S. I never stated, nor implied, that I was perfect. And the two times in my life that I was stopped for exceeding the speed limit, I accepted responsibility for my behavior and paid the fine! The difference is "I didn't try to moralize, or rationalize away my guilt for the act". Nor did I make excuses. I was wrong, I admitted it, and I made restitutions. That is how a responsible adult behaves!

6forsure
04-08-2004, 23:16
akbound,

It seems that we simply disagree on the universal "wrongness" of poaching. As is common with politics or religion, I ain't changing my mind and neither are you. At least we've been amicable about it.;c

PS.

Wouldn't have a responsible adult in the American Revolution have fought for King George?;N

akbound
04-09-2004, 06:14
Originally posted by 6forsure
akbound,

It seems that we simply disagree on the universal "wrongness" of poaching. As is common with politics or religion, I ain't changing my mind and neither are you. At least we've been amicable about it.;c

PS.

Wouldn't have a responsible adult in the American Revolution have fought for King George?;N

Hello again 6forsure,

I see we amicably agreed to disagree.....as you "spit in your hand when you offered it"....(see the King George comment)! NO.....a responsible adult would not have necessarily fought for King George. Unless of course he/she believed that to be the "moral thing to do"!

Are you equating poaching with the American struggle for freedom? Is that how you rationalize poaching? Do you honestly believe they are comparable?

I took an Oath to protect and defend our Constitution against all enemies, both foreign and domestic. I spent over 20 years in the U.S. Army to support my belief in the principles of that document! And I still believe in both that document, and my oath. Would you presume to lecture me on liberty, the cost of it, and the responsibilities to insure its continued existence?

Please, spare me the dramatics in the future. Poaching is not fighting for your liberty! So let's dispense with the silly fascade and admit this is a conversation about individual responsibilty.....or the lack of the same!

Dave

P.S. I'll accept any mans hand in a gesture of agreement. But not an insincere one!

6forsure
04-09-2004, 13:59
I'm not rationalizing anything. I don't respect a law simply because it's a law. I don't think that poaching is always wrong in a moral as opposed to a legal sense. It certainly can be, but it really depends on the situation. I agree that it has to do with responsiblity. One to yourself. Or one to the State. I prefer the invidual one to myself.

Later. I'm off to the fishing hole with my license.;g

akbound
04-09-2004, 20:56
Originally posted by 6forsure
I'm not rationalizing anything..........I agree that it has to do with responsiblity. One to yourself. Or one to the State. I prefer the invidual one to myself.

Sure sounds like rationalizing to me! But....that's just my opinion.....of course you're entitled to yours.

Dave

P.S. Personally, if I really thought the bag limits were bogus....I wouldn't go through the pretense of paying for a license. After all, why bother with the license....if the regulations set forth mean nothing? If it's really an issue of principle....than at least stand for the principle.....instead of slinking around pretending (ie. read that poaching) while using the license for cover!

firminw
04-09-2004, 22:40
Poaching is wrong that much.Yes I'll agree that someone sometime may have to take game illegally in a survival situation.In todays times I'll agree that the survival situation could befall any of us for any myriad of reasons.If it is truly a survival situation neither me,you or anyone else,including a judge,could assign illegality to that act.What I think everyone here who has spoken out against the ethical or moral aspects some are trying to espouse as to pardon are the above percentage which is most definitely WRONG.Hunting out of season,Trespassing,road hunting,killing for just the tastiest cuts and so forth and so on.EVERYONE I know to be a poacher is a CRIMINAL.Praise GOD I am a landowner and I dont want POACHERS to be commiting their illegal arts on land,thanks be to GOD,that he and I own.If I catch someone on OUR land I'm at the very least going to turn it over to the authorities.I have spent a lifetime supporting your right to say whatever you want but I dont have to agree.I pay taxes,buy license's,and practice my hobby legally and teach my children to do the same.Here in Arkansas the bow season is 5 mos. long.You can hunt with practically any means devised by man.If you cant get enough meat in the up to 5 deer you can kill legally your doing something wrong.Poaching is a CRIME and I dont want to hear any B.S. about the ethicallity of some laws as opposed to others.Get over it your wrong and you know it.Grow up,loose the hippy ideas on ethics,and be a productive member of law abiding society.O yeah never ask me if you can hunt on my property.

jchast
04-12-2004, 11:26
Originally posted by noway

Does it make a difference?

Either way it's illegal and prevents one less deer for the person who trying to hunt legally.

I don't buy the thought of a guy poaching a deer because he is hunger or needs to feed his family. This poacher are plain out criminals.

Im not one for poaching animals for the "tasty cuts" or "just because", but I'll tell you what...If my family was starving I could care less about the laws and the legal hunters. I own property and if I knew some family was starving I'd let them shoot a deer on my land... hell, Id shoot it for them! People come first. Its all about Survival. It says right in the bible that animals were placed on this earth to be food for man. Be a man and take care of your family however you can. Would you let your family starve? Im sure you would feel the same way in that situation.

noway
04-12-2004, 12:06
Be a man you say?

Being a man is providing and doing it accordingly(sp?) to the law deem by the state and federal gov.It does make a difference, and just like stated above I betcha half of these people taking game illegal aren't doing "because my family was hungry".

Next you are going to be telling me if he shot a cow on somebody private land because they where hungry, that's okay too ? ;g


Down here, we have people taking animals just because they can and or they are cheap and greedy, ( i.e Osprey, Wood Stork,alligator tails,doe deers,fawns, etc.... ) and they aren't doing it for the meer fact that they are hungry (period)

noway
04-12-2004, 12:21
btw: those that care to see just how much illegal activity gets reported per week here in FL take a look at the LEO FWC summary reports

http://capmel.com/Weekly_FWC_Enforcement%20Summary.htm

and that's just the few reports that make it on site and I wonder how many illegal activities don't get reported or caught.

akbound
04-12-2004, 21:41
Any man worthy of being called a MAN...will support his family without resorting to poaching. A real man not only thinks about the responsibility of raising a family, but he plans for it, and works for it! A lot of "BOYS" make excuses!

Bowser
04-13-2004, 06:20
If you were to get lost in the woods for days, and had to shoot a deer out of season to feed yourself, would you consider yourself a criminal?

A lot of hunting regulations are antiquated and now downright stupid.

Let's take duck hunting for example. You are restricted to 3 rounds in your shotgun. This law made sense when there were no daily limits.
Now that there is a daily limit of 7 birds, what difference does it make if I shoot 4 rounds at 3 birds instead of 3? None, as long as I am honorable and do not exceed my daily limit. Restricting me to 3 rounds does not make me an honorable person.

Some laws are dumb, and should not be obeyed.

Here in CA, professional "hunters" have been paid as much as $2000 by the state per animal to cull excess deer and pig populations. Yet if Regular Joe Hunter shot one, you would deem him a criminal.

Mr Noway, if you are a man of your word, and not simply mouthing off on the internet, then the next time you break a speed limit, by however little, please report yourself to the Highway Patrol immediately. Perhaps you could videotape your speedometer, and view it nightly to come up with an accurate tally of your law breaking.

Andy Holzrichte
04-13-2004, 07:03
Here's another point to consider. Not all "Poachers" are there illegally. I know of several cases where the farmers have had major problems with overpopulated deer herds. They either shoot the deer & leave them, or let people come in & shoot them & remove them. This is technically illegal but the Fish & Game officers tend to look the other way unless you are too blatent. (No I haven't done this, but I know people who have.) In this case the people are on the property legally, & technically their actions are illegal, but the deer would be dead either way. The only difference in this case is someone gets to eat the venison.

KB4IFS
04-13-2004, 07:23
Stupid use for a gun, to protect a deer. You mean he didn't have a license on the truck. Maybe blocked the truck in. Call the police?

noway
04-13-2004, 08:09
{Mr Noway, if you are a man of your word, and not simply mouthing off on the internet, then the next time you break a speed limit, by however little, please report yourself to the Highway Patrol immediately. Perhaps you could videotape your speedometer, and view it nightly to come up with an accurate tally of your law breaking. }

just because you don't get caught don't make it legal. And guess what I'm not going to sit here on this forum being 2 faced and say that it right to break the speed limit and that I have NEVER ever whent over the posted side. If I get caught, I will pay the appropiate fine and I know it's illegal and the same thing for poaching deer.


{Here's another point to consider. Not all "Poachers" are there illegally. I know of several cases where the farmers have had major problems with overpopulated deer herds. They either shoot the deer & leave them, or let people come in & shoot them & remove them. This is technically illegal but the Fish & Game officers tend to look the other way unless you are too blatent. (No I haven't done this, but I know people who have.) In this case the people are on the property legally, & technically their actions are illegal, but the deer would be dead either way. The only difference in this case is someone gets to eat the venison. }

Bad example, the state for example IL where I used to live did things such in this way due to high deer & car accidents. They STILL require studys and approval of who gets to cull deers. The avg joe blow don't wake up and decide it okay for me to kill a deer without tag just to help out the situation.

You come to florida and decide to just kill deer to cull the population, if you are caught I would hope they charge you the max of whatever they can charge you with. Crap I hope I see you so I can turn you in and get the $500 dollar reward.


{If you were to get lost in the woods for days, and had to shoot a deer out of season to feed yourself, would you consider yourself a criminal?
}

Once again another bad example, in a live of death situtation, You got todo what you have todo. I have hi-doubts that these people cutting off alligators tails from live Aligators, killing button Bucks/Does/Fawns, stealing turtle eggs, shooting Ospreys and Eagles & catching over the limit of undersize fish & hunting hen turkeys,etc........ are doing it because they are in a LIFE or DEATH situation. Don't ya think?

Any man worthy of being called a MAN...will support his family without resorting to poaching. A real man not only thinks about the responsibility of raising a family, but he plans for it, and works for it! A lot of "BOYS" make excuses!

^6

Everybody can make excuse and reason to make it (poaching) in their eyes okay but it steals from everybody. (the state and every lawfully and respectable hunter/fisherman )

Andy Holzrichte
04-13-2004, 15:28
Originally posted by noway

{Here's another point to consider. Not all "Poachers" are there illegally. I know of several cases where the farmers have had major problems with overpopulated deer herds. They either shoot the deer & leave them, or let people come in & shoot them & remove them. This is technically illegal but the Fish & Game officers tend to look the other way unless you are too blatent. (No I haven't done this, but I know people who have.) In this case the people are on the property legally, & technically their actions are illegal, but the deer would be dead either way. The only difference in this case is someone gets to eat the venison. }

Bad example, the state for example IL where I used to live did things such in this way due to high deer & car accidents. They STILL require studys and approval of who gets to cull deers. The avg joe blow don't wake up and decide it okay for me to kill a deer without tag just to help out the situation.

You come to florida and decide to just kill deer to cull the population, if you are caught I would hope they charge you the max of whatever they can charge you with. Crap I hope I see you so I can turn you in and get the $500 dollar reward.


It really isn't a bad example, at least not here in KS. The farmer can & WILL shoot the deer to protect his crops. He may tell a few friends if they want to come get some deer it is fine, but if they won't he will. The illegal part is the person who isn't the landowner shooting them & removing from the property. I would rather see that than the deer rotting in the fields. If something isn't done the farmer will have no crops left. What is he supposed to do?

firminw
04-13-2004, 16:45
While I cant speak for all states I know that in several states farmers can get depredidation permits to take care of problems encountered with animals.This includes deer in my state,Arkansas,even elk can be killed for depredidation reasons but the Game and Fish come and do it for you.So dont go and defame farmers to prove your point.If you dont like a law try to get it changed but breaking one like the 3 shell rule will get you a Federal rap and besides it applies to more species,(doves) than just ducks.It's the rule for migratory fowl not just ducks.Do you break every law that you dont like?When you start breaking laws you dont like it's a slippery slope that leads eventually to a rap sheet or worse,maybe a big burly roommate named Killer or Bubba.

Andy Holzrichte
04-13-2004, 18:11
While I cant speak for all states I know that in several states farmers can get depredidation permits to take care of problems encountered with animals.This includes deer in my state,Arkansas,even elk can be killed for depredidation reasons but the Game and Fish come and do it for you.So dont go and defame farmers to prove your point.If you dont like a law try to get it changed

Sure you can get a permit. It takes time and it is a lot of hassle. The farmers prefer to deal with the problem. I can't say I blame them, but like I said, I've never done it. (I have personally never shot a deer, either legally or illegally.) I am not defaming farmers in any way. I'm also not the one who has a problem with the law. It doesn't affect me personally, but I do think the deer are on the farmer's land & eating his crops. If he wants to let someone harvest them, then that is his business. The game wardens seem to know what is going on & look the other way when the people are discreet, and the problem gets solved with a minimum of paperwork. What is wrong with that? There are places that have huge deer overpopulations. Something has to be done about them & government is traditionally slow to respond.

firminw
04-13-2004, 19:46
I come from a farm family and people in my family are still involved in farming.We dont know what you are talking about.We have deer that raise generations of young off our crops,(soybeans,wheat,corn and more),if it weren't for these deer there would be a lot less trophies on our walls.If you'll look most places where there are real problems between deer and man usually some ill informed portion of society has gotten good laws changed to all involveds harm.Anytime anti-hunters have forced laws to be changed the animal suffers most but it's the people who get all the press.If anyone kills deer illegally then thats their choice but it's my choice to turn them in.I have forgotten more about whats best for the animals than any treehugger will ever know because I spend time and money to improve their habitat and make their lives better.Nature is a ***** for animals when you just feel their pain as opposed to trying to improve their lives.I love animals because they are tasty and their lives enrich mine.I am ethical and try to live a law abiding life and I take responsibility for my actions even when I'm wrong.You or noone else will ever convince me to obey only those laws I agree with.Poaching is a crime now and if it weren't I still would not do it because I want to preserve my love of hunting for a legacy for the coming generations.

noway
04-13-2004, 22:55
BTW: the 3 shells and nothing larger than a 10ga was a agreed upon by both US/Canada/Mexico to help migratrory birds and also to make it more sporting for the hunter.


You break the 3shell law or bigger-than-10ga rule, you can get into trouble on the federal level. I would hate to see you a convicted felon due to a "dumb law " as you worded. ;Q

Do as what you wish and see fit, but laws aren't to meant to be broken just because you don't like them.

jchast
04-15-2004, 12:56
Originally posted by noway
Down here, we have people taking animals just because they can and or they are cheap and greedy, ( i.e Osprey, Wood Stork,alligator tails,doe deers,fawns, etc.... ) and they aren't doing it for the meer fact that they are hungry (period)

So, being the genius you are, and if you would have read what I wrote, you would have read that I am against your quoted statement above. I live on a farm, so don't tell me about someone shooting cattle. I'll be happy to send you an article we have from back in 92 when someone shot one of our angus and was caught.

And yes, I would let anyone shoot a deer if they were hungry and have a starving family. Deer are wild animals, steers are a commodity, federally regulated.

jchast
04-15-2004, 13:07
Originally posted by noway
{Mr Noway, if you are a man of your word, and not simply mouthing off on the internet, then the next time you break a speed limit, by however little, please report yourself to the Highway Patrol immediately. Perhaps you could videotape your speedometer, and view it nightly to come up with an accurate tally of your law breaking. }

just because you don't get caught don't make it legal. And guess what I'm not going to sit here on this forum being 2 faced and say that it right to break the speed limit and that I have NEVER ever whent over the posted side. If I get caught, I will pay the appropiate fine and I know it's illegal and the same thing for poaching deer.


{Here's another point to consider. Not all "Poachers" are there illegally. I know of several cases where the farmers have had major problems with overpopulated deer herds. They either shoot the deer & leave them, or let people come in & shoot them & remove them. This is technically illegal but the Fish & Game officers tend to look the other way unless you are too blatent. (No I haven't done this, but I know people who have.) In this case the people are on the property legally, & technically their actions are illegal, but the deer would be dead either way. The only difference in this case is someone gets to eat the venison. }

Bad example, the state for example IL where I used to live did things such in this way due to high deer & car accidents. They STILL require studys and approval of who gets to cull deers. The avg joe blow don't wake up and decide it okay for me to kill a deer without tag just to help out the situation.

You come to florida and decide to just kill deer to cull the population, if you are caught I would hope they charge you the max of whatever they can charge you with. Crap I hope I see you so I can turn you in and get the $500 dollar reward.


{If you were to get lost in the woods for days, and had to shoot a deer out of season to feed yourself, would you consider yourself a criminal?
}

Once again another bad example, in a live of death situtation, You got todo what you have todo. I have hi-doubts that these people cutting off alligators tails from live Aligators, killing button Bucks/Does/Fawns, stealing turtle eggs, shooting Ospreys and Eagles & catching over the limit of undersize fish & hunting hen turkeys,etc........ are doing it because they are in a LIFE or DEATH situation. Don't ya think?

Any man worthy of being called a MAN...will support his family without resorting to poaching. A real man not only thinks about the responsibility of raising a family, but he plans for it, and works for it! A lot of "BOYS" make excuses!

^6

Everybody can make excuse and reason to make it (poaching) in their eyes okay but it steals from everybody. (the state and every lawfully and respectable hunter/fisherman )

You just said here in this post... that if you are in a life and death situation, you gotta do what you gotta do. Wouldnt you consider a starving family a life or death situation? If so, Eat your words. If not, you're no man.

You also said that any man worthy of being called a man will support his family without resorting to poaching... ok, well let me take all your money, credit cards, job, home, food, education (if you have one)etc. away.... and lets see if you can still feed your family. Legally you would not be able to. If you come and ask me to shoot a deer to feed your family becuase you are poor and hungry, I'll still let you. Hell, I'll butcher it for you... but maybe thats becuase I am a little better of a person than you. Im fortunate enough to hae all I need plus some. Poaching just cause you can, or cause you a too CHEAP to buy meat or becuase you like the sport, or lack there of I dont agree with. If you are starving you gotta do what you gotta do.... in your own words, life or death situation, right?

noway
04-15-2004, 13:09
Okay let me get this straight, steers are federally regulated but the DEER aren't?

Guess what, wrong again, the state owns the deers in the wild and have the authority over them, they are per say not property of a single individual, assuming native species in the wild and not the import breeds of deer raised on a farm/ranch. Even non-native species are regulated by the government agencies to some extent.

So are you trying to say "If I shot a steer on you're property because I'm hungry that wouldn't be cool, but if it was a deer it would be okay?" ;g

btw: You pasted my comments on the osprey and such and that is true. Folk down in these parts poach alot more than just deer.

noway
04-15-2004, 13:21
{You just said here in this post... that if you are in a life and death situation, you gotta do what you gotta do. Wouldnt you consider a starving family a life or death situation? If so, Eat your words. If not, you're no man.

You also said that any man worthy of being called a man will support his family without resorting to poaching... ok, well let me take all your money, credit cards, job, home, food, education (if you have one)etc. away.... and lets see if you can still feed your family. Legally you would not be able to. If you come and ask me to shoot a deer to feed your family becuase you are poor and hungry, I'll still let you. Hell, I'll butcher it for you... but maybe thats becuase I am a little better of a person than you. Im fortunate enough to hae all I need plus some. Poaching just cause you can, or cause you a too CHEAP to buy meat or becuase you like the sport, or lack there of I dont agree with. If you are starving you gotta do what you gotta do.... in your own words, life or death situation, right?}

2 wrongs don't make a right.

If in your case listed above, if that man had to feed his family he could get legal assitance in the form of food stamps, welfare assitance, low cost housing via HUD, shelter, turning over the kids to the state, job-work assitance, etc......... He can also get free education specially if he has no High School Diploma or GED.

Nobody in the US can use the excuse for the mis-fortunes to start violating laws because their hungry. Numerous agencies private and state ran are out their to help thoose that need food.

Also in your genius example above, why would a hungry, out of work , lost credit cards, no home havin, no education be keeping or needing his gun/bow or whatever he his going to hunt with ????? ;g

I know of numerous folks that lost their jobs, ran their money dry, lost their homes and they didn't end up committing a crime in order to feed their family.


And in the orginal post by me that started this mess, the guy most likely didn't ask the private property "Can I poach a deer from you ?" Don't ya think, that if they shot at him and detained him they wheren't to happy with his action?