Different AKs

[vote Republican]

Maybe this could be a sticky-

What is the difference between the various AKs? SKSs- do they use the same parts? Which AKs are better quality? Cheap but still OK?

I don't know much about them except they're evil, which means of course that I need one.

[Halo]

The AK-47 and SKS are two completely different weapon systems. They both use 7.62x39 ammunition, and some basic elements of the gas systems are similar, but that is about all they have in common. The AK is a true modern, automatic rifle in that it uses large capacity, detachable magazines with a selective fire capability (semi, burst, full). The SKS is semi-auto only, unless you have a slam fire. :)

Among the AK variants, there are two basic receiver types: milled and stamped. The original AK-47 had a milled receiver, but a few years after its introduction, stamped receivers were used. The latter variant was dubbed the AKM (AK Modernized) and the majority of what we call AK-47s are more properly AKMs. Debate rages about the merits of stamped vs. milled. Milled receivers contain more metal and are thus heavier, and some would argue more accurate. I have never fired one though, so I do not know. The stamped receivers are vastly more common, and will serve you quite well. There are also derivatives such as the AK-74 which uses the 5.45x39 round. That round was introduced in response to the 5.56 NATO round, and has a similar wounding capability, accentuated in military loadings by the use of a projectile with an air void inside it (to induce rapid tumbling inside a soft target, i.e. enemy soldier).

For the last few years, the Romanian variants seem to be the most popular selling. I have three AKs at current - a US/East German hybrid pictured in my avatar, a Romanian SAR-1 (7.62x39) and a Romanian SAR-2 (5.45x39). The SAR-2 is my favorite, mainly because I love the 5.45 round.

[Old School]

Halo summed it up well. I would add that the Chinese PolyTech AKs (banned by name in the AWB) are some of the highest quality AKs around. Most examples I've seen are milled.

For around $300, it is tough to go wrong with a Romanian SAR though.

[firminw]

I owned several when they could be bought for less than $400.00. Wish I still had 'em. Those were the days. I got out of the AW biz for a short while after a certain husband and wife team moved into 1600 Pennsylvania Ave.Boy wuz I dumb. I even sent my FFL back in that same instance. I like the SKS also, when properly fixed up they make a dandy foul weather deer rifle. I've killed several deer with one but even fixed up right I was too embarrassed to have the standard proud hunter pic made with one. Which ones of the newer variants on AKs worth considering. I want another but dont know which to buy.

[vote Republican]

So it's not like the M-16 vs. the AR-15 where almost all parts are interchangeable?

Is there a semi-auto AK-47 that is legal for civilians to own (other than class 3), or is everything just AK style but different (SKS vs. SAR vs. AKM)?

Just trying to figure it all out! Thanks for the info.

[Old School]

vote Republican. You are going to have some variation on parts across different AK clones. Sure, most of us can own a semi-auto variant of the AK (SAR, AKM, Polytech etc). I noticed you're in Maryland - the AK might not be allowed there. The SKS is another rifle entirely - and it might be available in Md.

[DrugRunR]

Polytechs were not BANNED by name in the AWB.
Polytechs were banned by name in the 1989 BAN.

That is why there are no more polytechs.

Now Chinese weapons were banned from importation.

Now, to stay on topic, I would vote for a chinese AK
Like a MAK90.
1 Mak90 beats 2 Sar's any day of the week



;l

[jhfenton]

Chinese Norinco's were banned by name in the 1994 AWB. That includes MAK-90's and the less-common MAK-91's.

The post-89 import AK's have either enough American parts to be considered US made or have pistol grip stocks. My MAK-91 falls into the latter category.

This is it, with the original stock before I refinished it, and below that with a very nice Choate polymer stock.

It has a milled receiver and attached bipod.

http://www.johnfenton.org/images/MAK-91-Original-Stock.jpg
http://www.johnfenton.org/images/MAK-91-Choate-Stock.jpg

[DrugRunR]

Originally posted by jhfenton
Chinese Norinco's were banned by name in the 1994 AWB. That includes MAK-90's and the less-common MAK-91's.

The post-89 import AK's have either enough American parts to be considered US made or have pistol grip stocks. My MAK-91 falls into the latter category.


Wrong again.

A MAK 9x is not a Norinco AK per ATF.
All post-89 chinese guns (well I should say, post-90) chinese guns must have US PARTS in order to install a pistol grip. Failure to do so means you have violated 922R because a mak-9x with a pistol grip stock is a unimportable weapon without the US MADE PARTS.

To quote someone else's work

On November 14 1997, the President and the Secretary of the Treasury ordered a review of the importation of modified versions of semiautomatic assault rifles into the United States. Consequently, it was decided on April 6, 1998, that the following modified versions of semiautomatic assault rifles could no longer be imported under the sporting purposes test.

AK47 Variants

MAK90
314
56V
89
EXP56A
SLG74
NHM90
NHM90-2
NHM91
SA85M
SA93
A93
AKS762
SA2000
ARM
MISR
MISTR
SA85M
Mini PSL
ROMACK 1
ROMACK 2
ROMACK 4
Hunter Rifle
386S
PS/K
Galil Sporter
Haddar
Haddar ll
WUM 1
WUM 2
SLR 95
SLR 96
SLR 97
SLG 94
SLG 95
SLG 96

FN-FAL Variants

L1A1 Sporter
FAL Sporter
FZSA
SAR4800
XFAL
C3
C3A
LAR Sporter

HK Variants

BT96
Centurian 2000
SR9
PSG1
MSG90
G3SA
SAR8

Uzi Varients

Officers 9
320 Carabine
Uzi Sporter

SIG SG 550 Variants

SG550-1
SG550-2

Therefore it was not until 97 that the weapons were really banned by name. I can't remember right now when the Pres signed a executive order banning the importation of all chinese made weapons.

There were MAK90's imported after the 94 AWB.
They could import them because they were NOT a AW and they were NOT named in the list.
Call the ATF and ask them. They will tell you just the same.
Trust me I called.
I am not gonna press the issue because in a few months to AWB will be dead and buried.

[jhfenton]

Originally posted by DrugRunR
Wrong again.

A MAK 9x is not a Norinco AK per ATF.
All post-89 chinese guns (well I should say, post-90) chinese guns must have US PARTS in order to install a pistol grip. Failure to do so means you have violated 922R because a mak-9x with a pistol grip stock is a unimportable weapon without the US MADE PARTS.

<snip>

Therefore it was not until 97 that the weapons were really banned by name. I can't remember right now when the Pres signed a executive order banning the importation of all chinese made weapons.

There were MAK90's imported after the 94 AWB.
They could import them because they were NOT a AW and they were NOT named in the list.
Call the ATF and ask them. They will tell you just the same.
Trust me I called.
I am not gonna press the issue because in a few months to AWB will be dead and buried. I don't want to get into a protacted argument either, but I believe you are wrong on two counts.

First, according to my information Norinco MAK-90 importation was cut off in May 1994.

Second, all Norinco's, including MAK-90's and MAK-91's are pre-ban "assault weapons" named under the AWB. The BATF doesn't want to admit it, because it means that if you add sufficient US parts, you can add folding stocks, bayonet lugs, and other evil features to your rifle. The relevent language from the AWB:
(30) The term ``semiautomatic assault weapon'' means--
(A) any of the firearms, or copies or duplicates of the firearms in any caliber, known as --
(i) Norinco, Mitchell, and Poly Technologies Avtomat
Kalashnikovs (all models);The BATF is conveniently ignoring the "(all models)" language because it's convenient for them to do so. (Plus, you can't put much stock in a phone call to the BATF. Unless it's in writing, it doesn't count.)

I have not put a folding stock or pistol grip on my Norinco MAK-91 because I do not have sufficient U.S. parts to comply with 922(r).

For relevant background, check out this thread: http://www.gunsnet.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=150733. I believe you participated in that thread.

Standard disclaimer: I am not your attorney. I am not providing legal advice. You should retain your own attorney to provide legal advice on how the law applies to your specific situation.

[JD8]

Ok both of you guys have confused me. So the list of weapons given by DrugRnr will be imported if the AWB sunsets??

[glklvr]

Originally posted by JD8
Ok both of you guys have confused me. So the list of weapons given by DrugRnr will be imported if the AWB sunsets??

No. Barring some enlightenment of both the president and congress, those guns are gone for good. The big deal now is importing "sporting" weapons, then putting an appropriate number of US parts on them to make them "domestic" weapons ;Q (i know, I know...) whereas you can put one evil feature on it- at least until Sept., when hopefully you will be able to put any number of evil items on them.

VR, there is a great deal of variation between manufacturers of AKs. As others have said, parts are not interchangable between AKs and SKSs- two different designs.

There are several routes you can go to get the AK you want, depending on your financial resources:

1. Buy a preban. I mean a pre-89. Main manufacturers were Yugos, Hungarians and Norincos. Norincos were the most prolific and still are in the market. I would not pay over $900-1000 for one NIB. Yugos and Hungarians command a premium- between $1500-2000.

2. Get a 89-93 "sporter". These are like the Mak-90s et.al., with the thumbhole stock on them. They cost between $350-550. Big names are Norinco, Hungarian, and Bulgarian (sweeeeet). You then need to spend another $100 to put the appropriate number of US manufactured parts on them in order to reclassify them as "domestic" rifles, which, as I said above, can have one evil feature- almost always the pistol grip.

I have both a Hungarian SA-85M and a Bulgarian SLR-95 which I have converted.

3. Buy an already converted Romanian. These are like the SAR series and are the least expensive option, but IMO also the lowest quality. I think they have currently run out of SARs and are now converting WASRs into pistol gripped hi-cap rifles. (The WASRs started out as single stack low-cap AKs but have the mag well milled out. Why single stack low-cap AKs? Because ATF ruled in the late 90's that a hi-cap thumbhole sporter was not sporting. Go figure.)

Hope this helps and is not overwhelming.

[spetsnaz777]

Yugoslavian AK rifles are the very best quality IMHO. Milled steel and made with the tender care and love we come to expect from Yugoslavian weapons:)

[JD8]

Ok I'm a newbie at this but I've read that the Arsenals SA-7s?? are very good. What is the best or among the best current production AKs??

[glklvr]

Originally posted by JD8
Ok I'm a newbie at this but I've read that the Arsenals SA-7s?? are very good. What is the best or among the best current production AKs??

Among current production AKs you are right. Arsenal (of Las Vegas) SA series is the best. On a par with the Bulgarian SLRs. Expect to pay between $500-650 depending on configuration.

[JD8]

Originally posted by glklvr
Among current production AKs you are right. Arsenal (of Las Vegas) SA series is the best. On a par with the Bulgarian SLRs. Expect to pay between $500-650 depending on configuration.

What's the difference between SAM7s and the SLR 101s??

Also am I better off getting a used Norinco... if I can find one for cheap??

[glklvr]

Originally posted by JD8
What's the difference between SAM7s and the SLR 101s??

Also am I better off getting a used Norinco... if I can find one for cheap??

SA-M7 is 7.62x39mm, while the SLR-101 series are 5.56 (.223), but don't quote me on that.

As far as a used Norinco, it will cost less, but the quality won't be the same.

Until you go real cheap, it's hard to find an AK that won't go bang every time.

[DaleGribble]

Originally posted by glklvr
SA-M7 is 7.62x39mm, while the SLR-101 series are 5.56 (.223), but don't quote me on that.

As far as a used Norinco, it will cost less, but the quality won't be the same.

Until you go real cheap, it's hard to find an AK that won't go bang every time.

I don't know how much cheaper you can go besides a WSAR and they go bang every time.

[JD8]

Originally posted by glklvr
SA-M7 is 7.62x39mm, while the SLR-101 series are 5.56 (.223), but don't quote me on that.

As far as a used Norinco, it will cost less, but the quality won't be the same.

Until you go real cheap, it's hard to find an AK that won't go bang every time.

Nah they are 7.62x39mm.... and I can't figure out the difference.

[glklvr]

Originally posted by DaleGribble
I don't know how much cheaper you can go besides a WSAR and they go bang every time.

There you go. It all depends on how much you want to spend and how nice you want it to look.

As far as Sa-M7s vs. SLR-101s, I just looked at the Guns-n-stuff catalog I had lying around. Sa-M7s are made in the US, whereas SLRs are converted from existing imported Bulgarian single stacks.

[JD8]

Originally posted by glklvr


As far as Sa-M7s vs. SLR-101s, I just looked at the Guns-n-stuff catalog I had lying around. Sa-M7s are made in the US, whereas SLRs are converted from existing imported Bulgarian single stacks.

Ah ha... many thanks.

[vote Republican]

So let me see if I can summarize-
'89 law banned importation of 'non sporting' rifles. This affected some ak-47 models (?).

'94 AWB banned new semi-autos/mag fed with 2 evil features. Did not address imports in general, although some named rifles were imports. Thus any imported rifles now could only have 1 evil feature.

'98 ATF decision banned import of any semi-auto with detachable, military style mag.

If a rifle is brought into this country & gets enough US parts, it is domestic. While the AWB is still in effect, you can't add 2 evil features. If/when AWB sunsets, you can add all the evil features you want, as long as it is via enough US parts to still count as domestic.

BTW, most 'assault rifles' including things like M1a are considered 'regulated' in MD. That means you buy them like pistols (background, wait, 1 per month). We also have an outright ban on 'assault pistols'.

[glklvr]

I think you got it, vR.

[JD8]

Originally posted by glklvr


As far as Sa-M7s vs. SLR-101s, I just looked at the Guns-n-stuff catalog I had lying around. Sa-M7s are made in the US, whereas SLRs are converted from existing imported Bulgarian single stacks.

Well I've looked into it some more.... Atlantic Firearms is selling a SLR 101 with a milled reciever.... if the old SLR are conversions... I'm lost again. Anyone have a link explaining all the different AKs??

[GunZnWomen]

Originally posted by Old School
Halo summed it up well. I would add that the Chinese PolyTech AKs (banned by name in the AWB) are some of the highest quality AKs around. Most examples I've seen are milled.

For around $300, it is tough to go wrong with a Romanian SAR though.

I agree, but the latest batch of Romaks have just been atrocious in terms of fit and finish. Canted everything.

VR, if you get a chance, you really will benefit from an up close and personal comparison of, say, and Arsenal, a VEPR and a Romak.

Of all the AKs I have seen, I have rarely seen one with consistently better fit and finish than a VEPR. If you don't mind the black furniture (I actually prefer it), you simply can not go wrong.

The combination of really heavy gauge construction (closely inspect the barrel and also pop open the dust cover and compare with others), excellent fit and finish, and especially the RPK receiver (think Russian SAW) lends itself well to a long service life and enhanced accuracy.

I am very skeptical of marketing hype, but "AK by HK" rings true when it comes to Robinson Arms and their VEPR.