GAP & ACP comparo question

[Glock simply the best]

Well folks,

I think I may take the plunge and call the 37 my own in the not so distant future. I am thrilled about this new fangled whatcha madoo round and the delivery system from Glock. I don't have many gripes about .45s. I even think they're great. However, low and behold I confess it here that many just don't fit my hand well. Yes, it's true there's yet another one of us (oh so rare ;) according to the GAP critics) folk who'll admit most .45s don't fit in his hand ideally. But even if the ACP did fit well, an easy on the gun, low pressure, relatively quiet, reliable, accurate, and highly effective round, in a small frame is sounding too good to pass up.

So, I do have a question for the G37 experts here and would like the (non-speculative but absolute for certain) facts that are available. How can the GAP possibly match the ACP? How's it do it? I know the talk about modern propellants, but can't those propellants be used in the ACP as well? It just seems like more room for propellant should equal more potential bang behind the bullet --period-- and I'm not talking about KB in this post. Also, I have read that the case wall for the GAP is thicker, but I've also read that, that is an erroneous statement?!?

So what's the real answer folks, how is less brass able to provide the foundation for equal (if not potentially slightly superior) performance with the same basic bullets in the case of the GAP vs. ACP? Let's have it.

Thanks all!

[M96er]

Let me just say, you won't regret getting the G37!;f I now have 6 GLOCKs and I must say that the G37 is fast becoming my favorite. However, I'm still new to the GAP so I do not by any means consider myself an expert. "Most" .45 users would agree that the optimum performance for a 230gr bullet is at 850fps. This keeps recoil, muzzle flash, and performance at a good balance for defense/combat purposes.

Pete has taken the .45gap using a 230gr bullet up to 1000fps which is slightly faster than a standard .45acp+P. The .45acp+P requires special brass to achieve this, but the GAP can use standard spec brass to achieve this performance with minimal swelling of the brass(unlike .45acp). HOWEVER, why would you need to boost the performance to this level for defense/combat purposes? Recoil is like a mule kicking you in the balls, and muzzle flash would be like a spotlight in the face. Even with hotter loads possible, I'll be keeping my 230gr loads around 850-900fps unless I want a powerful trail gun then I'll boost it.

[Rikki]

The GAP case is beefier down in the bottom-several websites show case X sections comparisons...
You are correct in the assumption that more case volume oughta = more whack...but then [it] gets confusing because of powder burn rates and the fact that increasing the case volume can LOWER the pressure, which will decrease the whack.
I'm absolutely confident that I can load the GAP and the ACP to equal performance levels.If you wanna get to +P+ levels, I'm not interested in going there..the safest way to get more foot/pounds into a threat is STILL the "double tap"-NOT the loading bench.
Bottom line for me is the fact that the'37 gives me a grip that is consistent with all my other Glocks,45 firepower,and 10+1.
No-one has ever NOT stopped a threat because they were 75-100 fps short on Velocity. Either of the 2 ctgs will do the job.

[Haycreek]

Most of your questions are answered at www.45GAP.com [good info]

[Glock2336]

Let's not forget to mention how the ACP has alot of extra room in the casing after it's loaded, so honestly I think the GAP has less of a chance for a doublecharged round. Less chance of a kb!?

[Ljunatic]

The latest edition of the NRA's American Rifleman has a very good comparison articleabout the G37 and an article about the new Sringfield Armory XD .45GAP

[Glock simply the best]

Thanks all for the answers thus far. But I need more. I've actually looked at Pete's site quite a bit (before posting) and also enjoyed the American Rifleman article when it arrived.

Still, I have questions... One site --don't have the link-- that had a cutaway of the cases claims the AGP case is not thicker (I am assuming that they are wrong and their picture deceptive). But again, and here's my original big question and the key of what I don't understand:

How does the AGP produce equal to or even potentially superior performance to the ACP with essentially the same bullet out of a smaller case? It goes back to that.

I believe it does, I just don't understand HOW it does. Is it due to the thicker brass (if it is in fact thicker at the base--I'm trusting Rikki on that)? I don't understand the "modern propellant" explanation because as I mentioned before, it seems that the "modern propellant" could also be used with the ACP?!

M96er, I have little doubt that the 37 will likely become one of my favorite Glocks and perhaps one of my favorite handguns. Honestly, I am a .44 Magnum fan in old fashioned wheel guns (they sure are prettier than our Glocks :) --nostalgic I guess). However, the 37 just seems like an answer from heaven for the ideal defensive handgun with the added bonus that it can now be ideal for me with my non-gorilla issue hands!

[Haycreek]

Two cases, one has more case capacity than the other, it takes LESS powder to do the same velocity in the smaller capacity case. The GAP will do the same velocity as the ACP, with less powder !

[DannyR]

The .45ACP was invented nearly 100 years ago. Since then powders have been greatly improved. There is a lot of air space in a loaded .45ACp round. Newer, better powders can produce the same results in the shorter .45GAP case, which by the way IS reinforced at the base. Furthermore, less air space with the same amount of powder produces greater pressure, thus greater velocity. That's why a factory round with the bullet set back from constant chambering and rechambering can cause a KB--Increased pressure due to bullet setback.

[DEJ/FL]

Industry standard operating pressure for the 45 ACP is 21,000 psi and the standard operating pressure for the 45 GAP is 23,000 psi! The G37 is built to handle higher pressure ammo than the 45 ACP is designed for! My personal experence with the 45GAP is that it shoot much flater than the 45ACP at longer distances. The recoil is also less than the 45ACP, in my opinion!
Dan:cool:

[Rikki]

Lemme see how muddy I can get this water...
Light a M-8o in a mail box and you'll blow it up.
Set it off in a yardbarn and it won't budge the roof.
Poor analogy, I know, but apply that to case volumes and maybe it'll make a bit of sense.The pressure curves on case volume are pretty spikey...
I believe the small pistol primer gives the powder a better burn rate.
Look, within the realm of what I'd call a "working load"-one you'd carry or shoot target with, as far as I can tell the 2 are equal.

[Glock simply the best]

You guys are great. Thanks again for the answers! So what I've got is that it's reinforced to handle pressure better than the size would suggest. And of course as logic/physics would dictate, less powder is needed for equal pressure in a smaller space.

I don't see how anyone could have anything bad to say about the GAP unless they're simply threatened by it's existence or don't like handguns (and in either case it's clear that something's wrong).

I'll be happy to be on-board the G37 train and grateful for the posts. :cool:

[M96er]

Originally posted by Glock simply the best
I don't see how anyone could have anything bad to say about the GAP unless they're simply threatened by it's existence or don't like handguns (and in either case it's clear that something's wrong).

I'll be happy to be on-board the G37 train and grateful for the posts. :cool:

You hit the nail right on the head. People invest in a particular caliber and set their minds and hearts on the superiority of it to the point that any would be challenger must be put down to preserve the compitent judgement of that person. After all, when someone invests lots of money on a selection of firearms in a particular caliber they don't want to be conviced that there is a better choice. Such is the case with the .45acp and the .45gap.

Naturally, someone who hasn't invested thousands of dollars on a selection of firearms geared towards a particular caliber will take up the GAP faster than those who have. I personally invested a lot of money in the .40S&W and the .45acp, but I could see the advantages of the GAP and took the plung to give it a try. Now, I find it to be one of my favorite GLOCKs if not my favorite along with the caliber.