.357sig origins and history

[ronin_asano]

i have a question or two about the .357sig cartridge.

1)why does it seem so 'unpopular' even though many LE agencies use it?

2)why does ammo remain expensive relatively speaking, given the fact that so many LE agencies use it?

3) when was the cartridge first introduced?

[M96er]

1) The .357sig concept targets law enforcement. It offers better hard barrier penetration than other calibers, it's loud(gets bystanders to hit the deck), and it's light. Other than those factors, the .357sig seems to offer similar penetration and perminent cavity damage on gel tests as 9mm+P loads........so most ppl go with the 9mm. Also, many believe that the 100-200fps extra that you get out of the .357sig over the 9mm+P don't justify its use.

2) More agencies and military use .40S&W and 9mm, thus those two calibers are cheaper in comparison. However, .357sig is generally cheaper than .45acp and 10mm defense loads.

3) I believe it first hit the market in 1994.


Personally, I'm of the school of thought that believes that a handgun cartridge simply doesn't have the power to produce rifle cartridge terminal performance. So, the idea of boosting energy and fragmentation in a pistol cartridge to achieve the effects of a rifle cartridge is futile and the tried and true approach of large diameter, heavy bullets is the way to go in a pistol cartridge.

I enjoy shooting .357sig and carry it in the hot summer time and reduce my carry weight(230gr .45 loads get cumbersome), but I'll carry .45acp or .45gap in the winter. A heavy bullet deals with heavy winter clothing better in which a lighter bullet loses a lot of its energy as it penetrates the clothing.

[ronin_asano]

thanks for the info.

i like shooting .357sig as well. i'm thinking of adding a .40s&w barrel for extra versatility.

i also want to get another gun, but i can't decide what caliber, except that i don't want a 9mm.

[ronin_asano]

another question, if anyone happens to know.

why is the .357sig actually .355 (9mm bullet)? if the point was to duplicate the performance of the .357mag for an auto loader round, then why not use a true .357 bullet?

[SDBettas]

Hmm

[ronin_asano]

that's why i put 'unpopular' in quotes. that just seems to be the standard explanation when the price of the ammo comes up.

[flyandscuba]

Personally, I'm of the school of thought that believes that a handgun cartridge simply doesn't have the power to produce rifle cartridge terminal performance.

Ahem...

See the picture below! Focus on the last one on the right! ;f

[M96er]

Originally posted by flyandscuba
Ahem...

See the picture below! Focus on the last one on the right! ;f

A caliber within reason for a standard sized defense/combat pistol.;)

[flyandscuba]

Ah ha! You must mean this one then...^b

[ronin_asano]

Originally posted by flyandscuba
Ah ha! You must mean this one then...^b

that fires the .500? wow. i recently held the .500s&w full size at the gun shop, i couldn't imagine firing that thing, let alone the snub.

[flyandscuba]

Not to hijack this thread as I've been known to do on other forums...

But, the full-size model -- and my PC Hunter pictured below are not unpleasant to shoot. The mass, design, and great Houge grip do wonders. To me, firing a ultra-light .357 magnum snubbie is MUCH more painful.

As for the 500 Snubbie, I'd shoot it once -- just to make a comparison. But I doubt if they will be on the firing line frequently. More of a "pack this in case you meet a bear" kind of thing.

Back to the topic of this thread. I love my .357 Sig. chambered guns (Steyr M357 and Kel-tec P-40/P-357 conversion).

I'm sure it has been mentioned many times in this club, but this link provides plenty of reading material regarding the beloved, many times misunderstood, and sometimes hated .357 Sig.

http://www.handguninfo.com/Archive/www.Pete-357.com/

[ronin_asano]

bleh, if you hijack it to talk about a cool gun, it's okay.

they showed me the cartridge for that .500, it was as big as my index finger...and a hollow point. the latter seemed like overkill.

back to .357sig

i have read the info at the link you posted, plus whatever else i could find searching google. it seems people either love it or hate it. however, it also seems to me that with the amount of people that love it, or even the amount that *use* it (LEO's, etc) that the ammo would be more common, and not quite so pricey. my county sherriff's use it, and my hwy patrol here (NC) uses it. i think they both carry sig sauers, not glocks.

when i hear that a winchester whitebox .40s&w is only $14 for 100 rounds at wally world, it gets depressing.

i love my g32, but i think i might have to get a .40 barrel for it.

[flyandscuba]

Here are a couple of links to some .357 Sig ammo with more reasonable prices. They'll mail it right to your door!

I bought some of this:

http://www.sportsmansguide.com/cb/cb.asp?a=132885

But I've heard this is good stuff too:

http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/ctd/product.asp?sku=AMM%2D310&mscssid=CCNQCPAPVUVU8HXJU3N5SAEW9DF2A4P7

Buying in bulk (500 rds or more) offsets shipping charges. Plus, you may not have to pay sales tax...

[ronin_asano]

thanks. i have been shooting the speer law man, and i like it.

also when double tap gets their .357sig out, that might be another way to go.

[dan_s]

1)why does it seem so 'unpopular' even though many LE agencies use it?

Get this depends on what your definition of unpopular is. If popular is defined my 9mm and 45acp, well I would say it is the 60+ year head start and the tens of millions pistols already out there..

2)why does ammo remain expensive relatively speaking, given the fact that so many LE agencies use it?

Easy answer, the LEOs don't spend thier money. They spend ours. Price is only a factor when one spend one's own hard earned cash..

3) when was the cartridge first introduced?

Can't recall the year, but one of my load books says the origin was a wildcat cartridge..

[Scunyon]

I believe it came about in 1994

[rsilvers]

Originally posted by ronin_asano
another question, if anyone happens to know.

why is the .357sig actually .355 (9mm bullet)? if the point was to duplicate the performance of the .357mag for an auto loader round, then why not use a true .375 bullet?

Because there are very few modern .357 bullets. There were tons of .355 bullets. They should have used a 123.5 grain bullet if they wanted to match the sectional density of a 125 grain .357. But that would defeat the purpose of their marketing plan.

[G33]

I think 1994 is right.
The Sig 229 and Federal ammo was the start.
Marketing I guess gave the .355 a .357 look?
Had the original story on the caliber, but tossed all that in the move to the current condo.;Q

[ffcracker]

But that would defeat the purpose of their marketing plan. [/B]
I think that is what it was all about - Marketing.

[lomfs24]

Originally posted by ronin_asano
another question, if anyone happens to know.

why is the .357sig actually .355 (9mm bullet)? if the point was to duplicate the performance of the .357mag for an auto loader round, then why not use a true .375 bullet?

There was a mention about the avaiability of modern .375 bullets and that was probably the reasoning behind going with the .355 bullet. The reason, from what I remember, that they went with the 357 name is they were trying to come close to or match 357 mag performance. It wasn't quite reached as you may know. But the name stems from a marketing standpoint. Everyone knows what a 357 Mag is so when you hear 357 Sig you make the connection.

A more logical question might be "Why the 357 Mag name when a 38 caliber bullet is used?"

[CRUEL HAND LUKE]

The answer to that is that 357mag AND 38 spec BOTH use a .357 diameter bullet. 38s haven't used a .375 diameter bullet since the 38 long colt in the black powder era.The original black powder cap and ball guns had a .375 diameter bore. When metallic cartridges became available they still used a .375 diameter bullet because they were first used in cartridge conversions of cap and ball guns. Manufacturers kept the .375 diameter bore when they came out with cartridge guns like the Colt "Lightning"1877 double action. When the 38 cartridges began being loaded with smokeless powder(in about 1899-the .38spec from Smith and Wesson), the diameter was changed to .357".The .357Mag was simply a .38 special(which has .357 bore)lengthened to add more powder and so it wouldn't fit in old .38s that couldn't take the extra pressure. That is why the .357 Mag is called a .357mag. It IS a .357Mag. The 357 sig was introduced by Federal in 1994 as a factory load to accompany the then new sig229.The idea was to give .357mag (from a 4" barrel)performance from an auto pistol. The .357sig name does cause some confusion. We had a dealer call about a "defective" G31 we sold him. He couldn't get the .357mag rounds to load in the magazine. The magazine just wasn't long enough;Q !!! Hopefully this helps with filling in the blank spaces in the history. CRUEL HAND LUKE

[kidcoltoutlaw]

then the cost is only a little higher than the 9mm,thanks,keith

[Bear45]

I love the 357Sig caliber, and If you use some of the online ammmo dealer's it's not too pricy to shoot, I think the last ammo I bought online was 10.50 a box??

[waktasz]

Georgia arms reloaded FMJ practice ammo is 8.50 a box if you buy 500 rounds at a time, less if you buy more.

[obxemt]

Originally posted by dan_s
Easy answer, the LEOs don't spend thier money. They spend ours. Price is only a factor when one spend one's own hard earned cash.

Yeah, none of us carry personally owned .357 weapons on duty purchased with our own hard-earned money. ;Q