Is this a "sportsman-like" shot? [Archive] - Glock Talk

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sharpshooter
05-25-2004, 09:07
What do you think? Is an animal in this situation fair game?
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid106/p47dffc78da27fc5192d7e6d364232529/f96ef21b.jpg
The way I see it, any farm animal DUMB enough to get stuck in a fence deserves to get shot at. ;f

noway
05-25-2004, 10:16
NO it would not be sportman to shoot a trap animal and calling hunting or sportman like.

{any farm animal DUMB enough to get stuck in a fence deserves to get shot at.}

I'm guessing you never worked on a farm. Alot of animals calves/pigs/goats get stuck in the fence line, and mainly when they stick their heads thru trying to eat the greener grass on the other side of the fence. ;f

mpol777
05-25-2004, 11:23
Depends on how hungry you are. ;f

Elk-ruser
05-25-2004, 12:35
No!

mhambi
05-25-2004, 12:53
I've put down a few deer that have been tangled in barb wire fences. (with DWR approval of course)



Sportsmanlike or not, it needed to be done. And the extra meat never hurts either... :)

CanyonMan
05-25-2004, 14:16
Amen ! To what Noway said, He's right!


Shooting this animal in the photo, would be about like cutting off a man's hand just because it gets stuck in a cookie jar.


CanyonMan

peter3334
05-25-2004, 14:31
there's no animal (save a human) that has a fair chance against a man with a gun, who are you kidding?
Blow it away if it makes you feel good.

ph.

uncowboy
05-25-2004, 18:41
I would only shoot a predator in that situation.

Dogbite
05-25-2004, 19:12
No----not hunting,not sporting.

mpol777
05-25-2004, 20:00
Originally posted by uncowboy
I would only shoot a predator in that situation.

I'm curious as to why you make that distinction. I hear a fair amount of folks who would sooner chop of their arm than leave a deer in the field, but treat coyotes like they just stole their lunch money. I guess I just look at predators differently than some. To each his own.

firminw
05-25-2004, 21:20
I'll offer another veiw though. An animal that gets caught in a fence will do it again and again. I was raised on a farm and have seen too many examples to not know what I'm talking about. If you dont destroy it sell it and let it be someone elses problem or hamburger. Cows are pretty far down on the intelligence pecking order, above horses but not far, and as such they do not learn from their mistakes. My dad was a veterinarian so I've seen stuff you would not believe, situations animals got themselves into. One guy had a high priced beagle that would get his head caught in jars repeatedly, they couldn't do enough to keep him and jars apart. One neighbor had a Hereford bull that would tear down 1000 ft sections of fence with his horns just for S's and G's. We finally had to castrate him to calm him down. It took a Ford 3000 tractor and a concrete sunk barn cornerpost to stretch him out so we could "steer" him, darned thing weighed close to a ton and had down turned horns that missed his eyeballs by less than a 1/2". Horses are the dumbest and meanest animals God ever strung a gut through and can be durned scary if your trying to practice needed medicine on them. Well just ramblin and like I said I couldn't see the picture but dont be so quick to make judgements if you aren't there. Oh yeah horses are dumb but I sure do like to hunt off a good one and chickens are way dumber but not as dangerous.




P.S. I finally saw the picture as I was going off to another section. Cant tell much by the picture but it would be the owners call. As for me I see barbeque. Besides thats not fence thats a gate and they dont come cheap or handy if the dumb thing breaks it. Like I said does anyone else smell the Kingsford, it's time to slow roast that sucker.

noway
05-25-2004, 22:28
Boy I 'm glad I'm not a farm animal. How quick people are to condeem a animal for being an animals is unbelieveable.

I worked on a few ranchs and had to untangle afew goats from the fence and even more piglets that stuck their head thru the barb and got entangle and I wouldn't even think about get rid of the animal or starting up the BBQ for it's actions. Same for the few cows that pushed in the fence line. That's part of life for ranch handler.

We have dominon over the animals but for heaven seak they are domestic animals that are bound to get into things. That's their nature.

{Horses are the dumbest and meanest animals }

You must have the wrong breed of horse. The only thing bad with horse compared to cows, they need more maintenance and human care. I personally think they are some of the smartest animals on the farm.
:(

firminw
05-25-2004, 22:55
Hey man cant a guy even make a few light hearted comments. I did not mean to impune all horses just the more than thousands I helped the ol' man work on. Like I said horses aren't at the bottom of the I Q stack but pretty close. I've never seen a pig founder or eat something that would make it sick except by accident. I cant tell you all the horses I've seen eat poison ivy or worse. That does not mean they have no redeeming qualities, like I said I like to big game hunt off'un a good one. And especially if someone else has to deal with him after a long day. We raised cattle, Polled Herefords, and they can be pretty intellectually challenged, esp. the high powered registered ones, but even they are a far sight more savvy than most horses. If your a horse lover then just understand some of us have had different experiences than you and I can assure you that most of my memories of horses are not good. I've been bitten too many times by the buggers to ever trust one. In my rodeo days I never saw a bronc that I wasn't glad to get off of unhurt and that was rare. If I offended you I'm sorry but no one will ever accuse me of being a horse lover. If you are go with God 'cause one day you will need Him.

CanyonMan
05-26-2004, 00:40
(quote)..

"Horses are the dumbest and meanest animals God ever strung a gut through and can be durned scary if your trying to practice needed medicine on them. Well just ramblin and like I said I couldn't see the picture but dont be so quick to make judgements if you aren't there. Oh yeah horses are dumb but I sure do like to hunt off a good one and chickens are way dumber but not as dangerous."(END QUOTE).


Hoss, i don't know what part of the country you live in or come from, but, you will be "hard pressed" to find a cowboy on any of the ranches out west here that would even remotely agree with the above statement (about the horses),. I have cowboyed on one of the largest ranches in Oklahoma, my home, and am now here in Texas. We have done most of our own vet work, on our cattle, and horses as well, from pulling calves and foals, to doctoring everything you can think of. with the proper understanding of what you are doing, you can usually manage the situations very well. There are always exceptions of course, but, they are just that, "exceptions."

If you have ever seen a cutting horse at work, you would know they are some of the smartest animals the good Lord has ever created. And very dedicated as well. Talk about 'dumb,' cattle and sheep take the prize. As for 'rodeo,' yeah, you stay your time and hope to come off clean, but that horse is doing what he does best.."buck,". That sure don't make him dumb. In fact most folks think 'we're the dumb ones' for even getting on in the first place. My son is begining to take up bull riding, even that bull is smart enough to know how to spin and turn to get the rider off, and then come back to stomp his guts out.

I'm not douting your experiences, or your dad's vet abilites, (not at all), but they differ quite a bit from what i have been doing most my life.

Really wished i had not jumped in here... as i have about 100 pages i would love to write at this point, and do not know how to get out of this one. But, if something tears up a fence, you build a better fence, or use a better pasture area, or place said animal in a round pen, or sell him. But we don't shoot them. (back to the goat thing).

A deer hung in a fence is one thing, but a stupid goat, come on!

My dog tried jumping over a barbed wire fence once, got hung up real bad... i did not shoot her, i got her out. There is always a solution with any animal that is a problem.

But unfortunately, i have not yet found that solution with some 'people' yet. They seem to be harder to train than the animals!
They seem to invent ways to see how they can kill.

No, i am not a lilly white, that is anti hunting, and guns and pest control. I've been cowboying, and guiding hunts, since heck was a pup. I am just against "enjoying killing."

There is always a lot of talk on here about "killing" and "enjoying it." Yet, we complain about terror attacks! Those who have come here to destroy this nation and the people in it. So we go to another country to detroy the enemy that would try to destroy us. This is one thing. This is something that 'must be done', to defend our freedom.
Praise God for the Guts we got to always be ready to go and do it.

But, any man who "enjoys killing", even the enemy, has placed himself in the same catagory as the one he has killed. Yes it does need to be done at times, and in these days we are in, it is surely the time to "defend." "But with honor, not with pleasure!"

Any man who kills anything, when he can do other wise, is just plumb loco.

There are some hard things to do on a ranch, things that seem to some, cruel and unfair, (to city folks), branding, de-horning, castorating, placing a 'twitch' on the nose of a horse that wants to kick your brains out when you try to shoe him, and he's mean as hades.

But i gotta say, that even in all this... and much more, i have yet to find one 'honest cowhand', that gets his jolly's through the pain the animal may have to endure for a minute or two. What the heck happened to values man, and to having a moral charater inside us that says... "some times, killing is necessary, but i don't enjoy it!"


Men or animals, i still cannot figure out why someone "enjoys" killing! I hope none of you ever have to kill a man. Perhaps some on here have had to do that, but i believe if they were honest about it, it made them sick to their stomache. To many "dirty harry" wantabe's in this world. Long on mouth, and short on morals. (not directed to any specific person here.. understand that clearly please).... :)


if a man thinks he just has to go out and varmit hunt, and shoot and kill predators, man thats his business, more power to him, but to "enjoy the kill," sorry, but i cannot get that through my head at all. I used to varmit hunt, i used to take out a thing here and there, and then my Father reminded me in no uncertain terms, that we were hunters, not killers, never did it again.

I will not condemn a man for what ever he is doing along these lines, but i just cannot get the grasp of "enjoying killing."


Well, i best jump off. Don't know what i really accomplished here. i guess i wasn't really trying to accomplish anything. I ain't out to change anybody, or get in a fuss over all this. Just can't understand it. If a new book came out tomorrow, called "pleasure killing for fun or profit," wonder if it would be a best seller!


Most of you boys know me on here. I ain't out to 'rake anyone,' not at all... just getting a gut full of this i guess.

Outside of pest control...., folks are killing off everything they can find to kill.

Man i just want to be able to sit on the horse at night in the canyons, or, sit on the porch, and hear a friendly coyote howlin..

Some day, all this is going to be like what we did to the buffalo.
"It will all be gone."

"What will we enjoy killing then?"


God's best to all of ya!
This was not written to offend anyone!


CanyonMan

WalterGA
05-26-2004, 06:11
Shooting that trapped animal would be about as sporting as shooting a deer @ 100 yds. or less, using a scoped rifle, when one is hiding in a tree stand. ("one" being the shooter, not the deer)

noway
05-26-2004, 07:01
^6

Very good post and logic canyonman. The PETA groups and their equals whats to ban us hunters from doing what we do and talk like above is their ammo to classify us all of man/woman who have no respect for life. Less not give them more ammo to feed their cause.

gescalon
05-26-2004, 07:02
Originally posted by WalterGA
Shooting that trapped animal would be about as sporting as shooting a deer @ 100 yds. or less, using a scoped rifle, when one is hiding in a tree stand. ("one" being the shooter, not the deer)

Add "waiting" near a feeder or salting a field with feed to that list.

Notice the lack of the word HUNTING, much less Sportsman.

Michigun
05-26-2004, 07:29
A hunter hides in a tree stand for the closer in animals WalterGA… sometimes the game ends up being a little farther out… tain’t rocket science.

My bow kill last year was a nice 8-point taken less then 10 yards out while I was sitting on the ground between two oaks. Is that “sporting” enough for ya?

(A few years back during bow season I took a fairly nice buck around 5 yards out… I was also on the ground crouching in a fencerow.)

ILikeFtLbs
05-26-2004, 09:28
Who cares if it's sporting?! That question would never even pop into my head. You hunt an animal you can be proud to have killed. Everyone's opinion on how to do that is going to be different, so there's no sense arguing on that.

The real question here is, "Why the hell do you want to shoot a farm-goat?!"

firminw
05-26-2004, 10:23
Like I said I was making some light hearted comments. Some of you guys are way to serious and really dont have a clue anyway. And Canyonman dont call me Hoss, in my rodeo days that was a surefire fight starter. How would you like it if I referred to you as something other than your handle, hoss. Lighten up and dont take comments so seriously and my Dad was a licensed vet, a Texas A & M graduate who did way more vet work than you'll ever see and from the time I was six I was his assistant so I've earned my stripes too hoss. When you grow up and become a real cowboy come and look me up.

Willard
05-26-2004, 11:43
Originally posted by WalterGA
Shooting that trapped animal would be about as sporting as shooting a deer @ 100 yds. or less, using a scoped rifle, when one is hiding in a tree stand. ("one" being the shooter, not the deer)


Wow!!!


For the 2nd time this year, WalterGA and I agree on something!

uncowboy
05-26-2004, 12:14
Why kill predatores? Well For the most part they need killing! If you have hunted enough or toyed around a farm they are compition. They eat things that are easy and often not to the landowners likings. I don't know the farmer that would let a fox walk away from the hen house.

firminw
05-26-2004, 12:20
I am sorry for taking issue with being called Hoss. 20 years ago that would have started a fight but today I must not let it bother me. I do have to question what is really so important about this or any issue of this magnitude, piddly, that would make it okay to call people derogattory names. I have tried to be as civil as I can and I think others should also. I'm sorry if my experiences are different than others but aren't we supposed to be "tolerant". As for the question as to the spotiness of the shot the answer is No. If it was my goat or sheep or whatever it is I'd probably off the little rascal for a nice slow roast but thats just me. Especially if it was hurt because bustin' a cap is cheaper than a vet bill and I like goat if it's handled right. As to the other veiws expressed here about hunting I agree also but in todays crowded "woods" if you dont join 'em it makes it darnned hard for us old time hunters to even see game much less kill something. I dont even wear camo and the only cover scent I use is apples I make up at home. All the shows on T.V make ambushing seem sporting but it never set well with me. I dont own a moosejuicer magnum or 300 fps compound so i'm pretty much outta date but i just like to hunt for huntings sake and I do it ethically.

ithaca_deerslayer
05-26-2004, 12:38
Why is this even a discussion.

Grab the freaking goat, and put it back in the pen. Then put chain top and bottom on the gate to latch it better.

Goats are escape artists. Usually they climb over, but sometimes try to go through. No big deal.

She's probably a milker. Why would you shoot the goat that gives you milk.

WalterGA
05-26-2004, 13:44
Willard: "Light" takes a long time to get to North Alabamer! :)

Michigan: I must have lost my mind there for a minute. I have absolutely no recollection of addressing bow hunting in this thread. :)

mrdoright04/05
05-26-2004, 17:39
Its in the crosshairs aint it? Shoot! Just kidding. What is the animal? Cat? Go ahead and shoot. Not kidding.

rhikdavis
05-26-2004, 18:04
Originally posted by firminw
I'd probably off the little rascal for a nice slow roast but thats just me. Especially if it was hurt because bustin' a cap is cheaper than a vet bill

Whatta ya worried about a vet bill fer? Ain't your 'vettin' free, Dad being a vetinary and all.

firminw
05-26-2004, 19:57
Not now, he's working on heavens stock 4 yrs now. He retired 20 yrs before that but he still did plenty for family, friends and very good customers. Thanks for asking though.

Dogbite
05-26-2004, 20:13
WalterGa---are you an outdoorsman? I have yet to see you say anything positive about hunting in any way, shape or form--but your always in the hunting,fishing and camping forum.Im dying to know your view on hunting in general,and PETA-if your feeling particularly talkative.Im just curious...

WalterGA
05-26-2004, 20:52
I got my first shotgun when I was 6. My father, fortunately, had the kind of job where he only had to work a few weeks a year, until I got much older; ergo, we did a lot of hunting and fishing.

I've probably killed eleventy-zillion doves; not quite so many quail, a bunch of ducks, lots of crows, etc. Have absolutely no objection AT ALL to hunting. Haven't expressed any objections to hunting on this or any other forum. Don't consider shooting a deer out of a stand with a scoped rifle at 100 yds. or less to be hunting.

Most deer around here are killed with scoped rifles by guys sitting in a stand, @ distances of around 40 yrds. or so. I have no problem with that, just would hate to think I'd classify that "harvesting" as "hunting".

Dogbite
05-26-2004, 21:47
WalterGa--ok,fair enough.I have always viewed the word "harvesting" as a pc term they started using on the hunting shows to avoid the word "killing"--just to make hunting pretty for the public.I disagree with that type of idea because we as hunters should never try to change(become pc) to please the antis in society.

noway
05-27-2004, 08:29
{Don't consider shooting a deer out of a stand with a scoped rifle at 100 yds. or less to be hunting}

A few questions for walter.

>so whats up with a rifle, deer stand and w/scope @ 100yrds or less has todo with NOT being hunting?

> so I guess you would only state that deer taken from 101yrds plus would be?

> what if it was a deer taken from aground blind with scope under 100yrds would that not be hunting?

>Would you classify a shotgun w/scope in a tree stand NOT hunting also?


( wondering minds want to know )


Scope are good in that you get a clear pciture of the target and possible any UN-targets ( i.e hunters in the background, or other improper backstops,etc.... ), you also get cleaner kills and can size up the deer to make sure it is legal or the trophy buck that you plan on taking.

Also in my neck of the woods, you would be very lucky to even get a 100yrds unrestricted view for shooting a deer. So the sniper shoots that you hear about in the High-Power forum of people shooting deer at 100-600yrds would most likely not happen in my state and my area.

Nothing wrong with a hunter shooting a deer @100 with scope from a tree-stand.

noway
05-27-2004, 08:44
oops misson failure double tap

rhikdavis
05-27-2004, 09:13
Originally posted by firminw
Not now, he's working on heavens stock 4 yrs now. He retired 20 yrs before that but he still did plenty for family, friends and very good customers. Thanks for asking though.

;f

sharpshooter
05-27-2004, 16:21
I was just kiddin' about shooting the dumb goat. What it needs is a good spanking, that's all. But it's been interesting to see where these posts are going. :)

vafish
05-28-2004, 07:36
Originally posted by sharpshooter
What do you think? Is an animal in this situation fair game?


Animal stuck in the fence fair game? NO

Would I shoot it?

Depends. I've never tried eating goat.

I'd assume you keep a goat behind a fence for a reason, either you raise them for meat or milk or fur (wool? or maybe those cool goat skin leggins they had in that Dragnet movie). If that's the case they only reason I'd shoot it would be because it was injured beyond the skills of my vet or beyond financial reasons ($50 goat needs $1,000 vet work it ain't worth it)

Of course some areas have feral goats that are destroying local habitat and need to be removed. In that case I'd shoot it. I wouldn't call it sportsman like, I wouldn't even call it hunting, that's just plain culling (or killing).

Besides those cross hairs look like they are awfully low. If the bullet hits where the cross hairs are that's just going to clip his brisket and not kill him cleanly. (although I don't know how far away the goat is or how your gun is sighted in, it may be aimed correctly.)

Dogbite
05-28-2004, 19:12
I would have to agree with noway.There are different ways of hunting all around the country--and the world for that matter.A statement that "its only hunting if done this way" is incorrect.People have to look at the big picture.Also, as outdoorsmen,we have to stand together---the antis do.

akbound
06-01-2004, 06:29
Young goats especially make for very good eating. (And before someone has an anuerism, what do you think breeders do with all the "extra" young billies? News flash: It doesn't take them all for breeding......and you can't exactly milk them! Well at least I wouldn't......don't know about you?!?)

I can't honestly say I've ever needed to shoot a domestic goat either. But I suspect it wouldn't be very sporting. There are circumstances where livestock or animals need put down. And there is nothing inherently more humane by doing it with a drug than there is with a well placed bullet. The problem with a significant part of today's society is they'd refuse the personal responsibility of doing it themselves, and pretend they can "feel" better simply because they paid someone else to do their "dirty work". Simply put, your animal......your responsibility! If you have trouble with that, why do you assume the responsibility of shepard ship?

As to the original question. The animal in this photo should be easily extracted from the looks of it, go set the silly thing free. But that is not always the case. And no, it's not sporting, but in some cases putting down an animal is the correct thing to do. (I recognize the original post was done in humor, but the thread got hijacked by some of this forum's humorless.)

Dave

Trademark
06-03-2004, 19:22
for all of you that treestand hunting isn't fair, and take your deer from 5 to 10 yards, let me tell you about how i took last years buck.


I sit on a branch; with a tire iron. the deer came under my branch and I LEEPED ON HIM!! it was fair i tell you! fair! he was 2 yards away according to my rangefinder. am i organic or what?

my state grows the biggest deer and has the prettiest women and the scenery takes your breath away. we sit in treestands and kill deer, no harvesting. So, when i am not feeling tactical,i secure my tireiron and opt for the treestand and my rifle. to each his own.

now i am new here and i don't want to piss anybody off, but if you killed a deer from 5 feet or 10 and you were on the ground, i need to take some lessons from you.. we all see deer up close, but how did you move to make your shot? i have had eye contact with many deer that spooked because i blinked. perhaps i will get some tennis shoes and "sneek" up on them.;Q

ithaca_deerslayer
06-04-2004, 08:05
Originally posted by Trademark

now i am new here and i don't want to piss anybody off, but if you killed a deer from 5 feet or 10 and you were on the ground, i need to take some lessons from you.. we all see deer up close, but how did you move to make your shot? i have had eye contact with many deer that spooked because i blinked. perhaps i will get some tennis shoes and "sneek" up on them.;Q

I've had deer come within 5 to 10 feet of me while I was hunting from the ground, but I let them pass before I made a move on them.

One buck stopped at 10 feet and looked right at me, for a full minute. Then he slowly walked past and I shot him at 30 yards by time I s l o w l y got my .30-06 up without him seeing me move.

Another buck walked 5 feet behind me while I was bowhunting. As he was passing, I rose, spun around, drew, and aimed, all in s l o w motion. But I just wasn't able to get the shot off before a couple trees were in the way.

If you move too fast, or if you blink, or if you twitch your nose, then they are gone! But if you stay calm and become a statue, only moving slightly when they are not looking, and if you don't make a sound, not a sound, then you have a chance.

The distances are based upon the tracks.

noway
06-04-2004, 09:08
ithaca_deerslayer is so right. If you look like a tree and stay motionless you will find alot of game animals other than deer will NOT notice you or care. You don't have to take any lessons or use any special camo or other tricks. Just look like a tree or rock and be very very quiet.

Once, I had a doe stand no more than 3-5yards away staring at me as I sat on the ground propped upto a tree. She knew something wasn't right and just quite couldn't put her finger on it, until .... after about 1min of her staring at me and I finally said " Boo !' and she dart off, I have to say she nearly jumped out of her skin. It was so comical. ;f

the old saying of (IIRC) " To a deer every man looks like a tree stump and to a turkey every tree stump look like a man" does really apply.