Being stalked, need suggestions. [Archive] - Glock Talk

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ddj8052
06-01-2004, 20:58
First off, this is not like it sounds. I have a friend who has been kind enough to allow us to set up a private range on his property. He has 240 acres on top of a mountain. The property is over run with Mountain lions and has some bears. Up above where he plowed out the range is a kill spot where the mountain lions have hauled up carcases. The range area is situated in a bowl shaped area.

So on with the story. My friend and I were shooting and as we got done with our string of fire and were reloading we heard some very big stepsd in the brush. Now I have been camping my entire life and I know what the woods sound like and there was deffinatley something out there. So I slammed home a fresh magazine and backed to the center of the clearing and waited. We heard some more steps going across our front then moving away. We waited a bit and heard nothing else and went back to shooting.

So now my question is this. The owner of the property is saying that it was probably a bear. He says that the bears will come to the sounds of shots inorder to see if you have killed anything they can eat. So now I am worried about a angry bear. it was recommended to me to keep a 12gague with slugs handy for protection. Do you all think that my Remington 870 loaded with Winchester Super X rifled hollow point Slugs. Would these be good adainst a bear? Also if it was a Mountain lion would the slugs also be good. Would a .45 acp be efective against a mountain lion. Thanks for any help. I appreciate you all reading all of this.

GotGlock1917
06-01-2004, 21:09
The 12 gauge slugs might be ok for the big cats but I wouldn't trust them. Certainly not for bears. I would prefer a high power rifle, preferably large bore. If I thought there were bears and big cats around me I would want my Ackly .458 magnum.

quantico
06-01-2004, 21:37
I would think that the 12 guage would do the trick....hitting a cat moving at you quickly sounds like a bad way to spend range time... the bear is even less attractive...

I would consider using a 308 or better center fire rifle.... and I would have it with me.... not in the truck.... What ever you do... don't shoot a 9mm glock or 40 at a bear ... it might make it angry...

Smaug
06-01-2004, 21:38
I guess I would rather have a big-bore rifle for a bear too. If it comes to the point when a mountain lion is attacking you, you're screwed. He will have ripped out your throat by the time you reach a long gun. Maybe just keep a loaded magazine ready in your back pocket just in case, or a loaded gun ready in a holster.

If you see his eyes looking at you from the bushes, shoot him before he decides to pounce. I would alternate being on guard though with your buddy. I don't think I would go there alone.

I would like to think bears are smart enough to NOT approach you when you have guns. If they are smart enough to know that you may have killed something with them, they should certainly be smart enough to stay away. The bear has more likely figured out that he can move in on a mountain lion's kill, since they are known to drag them to that area.

quantico
06-01-2004, 21:43
Originally posted by ddj8052
F He says that the bears will come to the sounds of shots inorder to see if you have killed anything they can eat. So now I am worried about a angry bear.

Remington 870 loaded with Winchester Super X rifled hollow point Slugs. Would these be good adainst a bear? Also if it was a Mountain lion would the slugs also be good. Would a .45 acp be efective against a mountain lion.

Let me suggest you carry in lots of fresh meat to grill right where the animals have been eating.... I might even buy the steaks....maybe my ex could carry them in while hiking to you...
;Q

WalterGA
06-01-2004, 21:56
JHC, .458 for mountain lions!!!!??? What next! Mountain lions are fairly easy to kill. Just about any centerfire handgun round will stop a mountain lion. Many mountain lions are taken with .22 magnum rifires.

The slugs will be find for a bear.

GotGlock1917
06-01-2004, 22:33
Originally posted by WalterGA
JHC, .458 for mountain lions!!!!??? What next! Mountain lions are fairly easy to kill. Just about any centerfire handgun round will stop a mountain lion. Many mountain lions are taken with .22 magnum rifires.

The slugs will be find for a bear.

Ha, ha, ha;f
I know that it's overkill but I was really thinking more about the bears. I have never been bear hunting but have read stories. I gather they can be difficult to stop. I understand Inuits used .22 Hornet to hunt polar bears. Hiding under a snowbank sniping for the eyeball. I'm not man enough for that. I wouldn't want to trust my 30-30. My Browning A-bolt .30'06 should be adequate. But we're not talking about hunting. We're talking about snap shots at a charging bear.;G

John

Zundfolge
06-01-2004, 22:38
I'm thinking 12ga 3" magnum slugs would be ideal (in a semi auto shotgun if possible ... nice fast followup shots).

Mah Grandpappy would have recommended a levergun in .45-70 (probably a good choice ... hits hard and cycles fast and since you're in the PRK I'm pretty sure they are legal).

AK_Stick
06-02-2004, 00:47
a 12 ga with 00 buck or slugs will be perfect, just aim for the center and let it have it, I'd suggest firing every round in the gun, reloading and then going to see if its dead. If your handy you can empty a 12 ga pump pretty damn fast

RMTactical
06-02-2004, 03:40
Originally posted by AK_Stick
a 12 ga with 00 buck or slugs will be perfect, just aim for the center and let it have it, I'd suggest firing every round in the gun, reloading and then going to see if its dead. If your handy you can empty a 12 ga pump pretty damn fast

Exactly what I was going to recommend. ;)

Coolknight
06-02-2004, 14:03
Cats & Bears...

I would suggest that you have something like a 41Mag, 44Mag or 10mm handgun loaded with some stout stuff on your hip. As some said, when you see a Mountain Lion close, time to draw and open up. As for bears, if you hit em with 6 41s, 44s or 15 10mms (on this forum quite a few have said that the GLOCK 20 is popular in Alaska as a light anti bear weapon), it will feel those a lot more then a 9mm or 45ACP. I would suggest FMJ, hard cast, anything that has lots of penetration... a 357 SIG with 15 FMJs would also be lots more effective then a 9mm, but then +P FMJs could also work with some luck.

Be aware that many cats tend to walk around you once you spot em. So if you see a cat at range, before you know it, it might be right behind you.

Well I suggest that you don't go there alone... a cat can only snap one neck at the time... ;g and as always, long guns have more power, but are often slower into action for close range work.

P.S. I am no expert on cats and bears, but a good friend of mine has shoot everything that crawls and runs on earth (rhino, lion, lepards, elefant, you name it... member of the international big game hunting asso.) cats walk around you, he knows first hand, worst are lepards, they do it to perfection, so he hates hunting em!

Regards,
Coolknight

mhambi
06-02-2004, 14:26
Odds are you won't ever see/hear a lion before it is pouncing on your back. Odds are also that a mountain lion would never be pouncing on your back. I'd be more worried about the bears.


A 12 gauge with slugs would be fine.

mpol777
06-02-2004, 14:40
Even without being there I can say with 99.999999% certainty that it was not a lion. Mainly because you heard it and secondly because it was around gunfire. Lions are very good at what they do and part of that is sneaking around. Unless you're actively hunting them (calling or running dogs) you'll probably never see one, and even if you do you won't hear one. Also gunfire and similar loud noises are not something they want to hear. Even if it was a lion and for some reason it came after you, which is HIGHLY unlikely, any gun you'd use for defense from people will work on a lion.

If there are bears in the area, that might be it. They are relatively clumsy when walking through the brush. Again the chance of being attacked is slim. Black bears don't normally see people as food and aren't looking for a fight unless you do something stupid. Most catch a whiff of you and high tail it away. Those that have had stupid hippies feeding them or eat out of garbage cans might come right over expecting food. It's your call at that point, but you can usually just yell at them to solve the problem.

Personally I wouldn't worry about it. Definately be aware of your surroundings, but no need to dig a foxhole and string claymores. Unlike people, animals pretty much follow the rule of "Leave me alone and I'll leave you alone".

ddj8052
06-02-2004, 15:54
Thanks for all the suggestions guys. I will as a result of this now carry my Remington 870 loaded with Slugs when I go to this spot. I do not have a 10mm (athough that may now be looked into to, anyone recomend one :) ) so my .45acp will have to suffice on my hip for now. For those that asked, I live in California and we have Black bears. The more I talk to people both on the 'net and in person, the more I believe it was a bear. I do not believe it was a 2 legged critter for the simple fact that it crossed in front of us AKA down range from us. A person would have to be pretty stupid to be down range from the shooters. This would also seem to bear out (no pun intended) the theory that the bear was looking for food. So now I would really like some suggestions for loads for my shotty. Again thaks to all for the help.

J. Parker
06-02-2004, 16:41
California Black bears are generally on the small size and Cougars can be taken with just about any calibre. Has anybody spent any time in the woods or researching this topic? Geeeezzz. A 12 gauge with slugs or OO buck will take anything California has to offer. I like OO buck because in a "rush" or otherwise stressful situation you don't have to make a "perfect" shot. I spent 20 years in the California mountains before coming up to Washington state and I never carried a 458! BTW, a 45 is just fine for a Cougar. Relax....forget all this hype about the indestructable Black bear. ;Q

MI10mm
06-02-2004, 19:50
If you want a bit more zip in your 45 ACP, there are a couple of options out there. 45 Super and 450 SMC (Short Magnum Cartridge). The 450 SMC fires a 230 slug at 1150 FPS/675 FT/LBS from 5" bbl. All you need in a 1911 is a 24 lb recoil spring and a Shok Buff and you are all set. The 460 Rowland is also an option, but is a bit more expensive. It gives you 44 Mag power in a 1911 style handgun.

f1b32oPTic
06-02-2004, 23:00
Originally posted by ddj8052
Thanks for all the suggestions guys. I will as a result of this now carry my Remington 870 loaded with Slugs when I go to this spot. my .45acp will have to suffice on my hip for now.

YOULL NEVER MAKE IT OUT OF THERE ALIVE!!!!!!1111

repete34
06-02-2004, 23:24
Can I hunt there? I would not mind at all taking the bear out of the woods for ya when the season rolls around. Let me know, I will hunt it for ya!

A_Swede_17_1911
06-04-2004, 15:36
The shotgun with slugs or buckshot will be fine, it could have been a bear there not the most gracefull critters alive, cougars are usally pretty quite. That said a couger is more likely to come up behind you or to try to ambush you as you walk or ride by.

00Buck
06-04-2004, 23:36
Why not alternate slugs and buckshot? It's a great home defense strategy too.

ChuckJ
06-05-2004, 01:19
In WA state recently a man fought off a mtn lion with a pocket knife so I'd reconsider the throat torn out thing. We had one enter an apartment near my home last year, scared the crap out of the lady. If a lion attacks you fight back or you will probably die. I have heard lions on my street and while I would never go looking for them I'm not that concerned for my safety, now my three year old I certainly keep close to me. He's an easy meal for a lion. In the western US mtn lions are getting to be a fairly common sight, especially in OR where hunting them with dogs or bait is illegal.

CanyonMan
06-05-2004, 02:57
Man! Reading all this, I feel like i am watching the "Mountain family Robinson movie!" :)

Every time these people left their cabin, they were attacked by something!

This is 'just not the way it is!'

I "AM NOT" saying these attacks 'cannot happen'. I am saying this. How many hours and years have you boys spent in the outback, and "never" been attacked by an animal?

I have never once had a problem in the rockies, or anywhere else for that matter.

Even here on the ranch we have cougars, and on my brothers ranch, he 'guides couger hunts', still no attacks or problems.

Have they truly happened to others? Yes! I 'do not doubt' that one bit. But i would be far more concerned about a wheel falling off a 747 and landing on my head, than i would an attack from an animal in the wild.

I have a good friend that even hunts alaska, the 'very remote' parts, he has 'never encountered' one problem yet.

Again... yes, 'i know this has happened', and can... but the chances are extremely slim, and just as rare.

if i was in the bushes near a bunch of guys shooting off guns, i wouldn't run out in the midst of them for any reason at all... I cannot believe that a cougar or bear, or a jack rabbit, is going to attack a few guys firing off their guns.

Again, (so i do not get reply's about 'this case, and that one' etc), I do realize this 'can happen' in a camping/hiking/hunting situation, but it is the very last worry on my mind.. I had a friend that was left all alone by a 'dumb pilot' in the alskan tundra, after he had killed and dressed out a caribou, the pilot took the head rack, cape/meat etc, from the camp, back to the larger base camp, and left my friend there with a 7mm mag, and a 'gut pile'! they had seen numerous brown bear on the way into the hunting site. Yes, stupid move to be certain...! but even in this, my buddy did not see, nor did he have, any problems. Lucky? Maybe! I realy cannot say.

But all this "scare" stuff about bears, cougars, rabid skunks, bigfoot, and Lord knows what else.. Sorry, but i have never bought into the "Fear factor" of it all.

Cautious? Yes! Scared? No!

More concerned about the two legged exscaped convicts, or the dope growing hippies that still live in the remote's of the northern part of the Sangre De Christo mountain range/s around taos N.M. and around Durago Co. etc.. which have always been a big part of my stomping grounds... I have friends that have lived in these (mentioned areas) all their lives, they have "never" had a problem..."Even when they had an encounter of some kind."

I am "very sorry" for the people who have had problems/attacks/deaths, etc... But boys, this is not the 'norm,' it is the 'very rare exception'. A lot of these things are due to 'ignorance' on the part of the campers, and hunters, who do not know how to run their camps/ with food stuff, and ,or, how to use common sense woodsmanship. And yes, "i know that even the "pro's" have been mauled atacked and killed etc..."

But 'my point' is, 'this just ain't the norm!'
Go build your cabin, and don't watch The above mentioned movie!

In 1977, i Left the ranch in Oklahoma (for a short while), with the wild hair that my wife and i were going to live the "mountain family robinson lifestyle," in the San Juan mountain range outside of, and between Durango Co, and Silverton, Co. Very rugged terrain indeed. The only way into the selected site, was to pack in with the mules horses, and all the equipment needed etc.. had great plans... they got folied! (long story).. the point being.. There was never the fear of, 'we're going to be attacked syndrome'! And for what part 'we were there', and did, we 'never had problems....' (lots of red government tape though), that will stop you in your tracks faster than a bear will! :(

Oh well... i was bored, and it is late.. Just my late night 2 cents worth! Go and enjoy the woods! carry your gun/s, and use common sense.

And remember... those attacks that 'do happen', do not even begin to tip the scales to "all the ones that never happen!"


CanyonMan

duncan
06-05-2004, 12:43
Rem 870 with flat point slugs - no HPs as they will clog up.

Alternate with shot.

And stay frosty.

Sounds like those bears just want easy food and would not be aggressive unless they see food.

MBR
06-05-2004, 17:58
I beleive 12Ga slugs are just fine for the largest of critters. Federal 2.75 inch 12GA (.72cal) 1.25 ounce slug (547 grains)at 1520 FPS and 2800 FPE at the muzzle. This will stop a bear!!!!

MI10mm
06-05-2004, 19:09
Originally posted by CanyonMan
Man! Reading all this, I feel like i am watching the "Mountain family Robinson movie!"
This is 'just not the way it is!'

I "AM NOT" saying these attacks 'cannot happen'. I am saying this. How many hours and years have you boys spent in the outback, and "never" been attacked by an animal?

And remember... those attacks that 'do happen', do not even begin to tip the scales to "all the ones that never happen!"


CanyonMan

Until YOU are put on the menu by an animal(s), it's just another "outdoor movie." ;Q When, and if, it happens to you, your attitude will change. Maybe you'll even live to talk about it.

CanyonMan
06-05-2004, 23:09
MI10mm,

Said..(quote)."Until YOU are put on the menu by an animal(s), it's just another "outdoor movie." When, and if, it happens to you, your attitude will change. Maybe you'll even live to talk about it. (end quote).



As i said, 10mm, i know "it can happen," but in all my 'adventures' (if you will), and all the encounters... "It never has!"

If it ever does... Yep, i sure hope i have the resourses and the since to come out on top. As far as "changing my attitude," as you said. "That will never change", attack or not. There is just not that high of a 'risk factor' in all this as is made out to be.. It would not change my mind about woods living, or travel in the outback anywhere.


CanyonMan