7.62x54mm OR 8mm ?

[44 Dan]

Looking to buy one of them old WWII surplus bolt rifles and would like to find out what Ya'll prefer and why??

I'm not real familiar with the variety of rifles available but I'm looking to spend less than $100 for the rifle. I fondled a M-44 that was around $75.00 and it came with all kinds of extra accessories. I shop at www.jgsales.com

The rifle will be for my experienced 16yr old son. He's ready to start shooting long distances and I've got to find something that uses cheap surplus ammo (he goes through a LOT).

Something that can take a scope would be a big plus. I shoot out to 1,000yds with my AR10 and he wants to play too. I had an old 8mm German Mauser w/ a cheap scope that was pretty decent out to 500yds but that was a long time ago.

Your Knowledge and Advice/Suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Thank You, 44 Dan & Adam

[Halo]

The M-44 would be a poor choice for long range work, but they are a blast to shoot (most literally). If you opt for something chambered in 7.62x54R, I recommend the Finnish M39. These are the finest of the Mosin-Nagant family.

I don't have a Mauser so I cannot really comment on that, but 7.62x54R -seems- to be more common, and you can get new commercial manufacture for it more easily as well.

[NGWT]

A 1000yds and under $100? Sounds like you don't have many other choices :-)

Though you may want to poke around for a 91/30 rather than the short barrel M44. Not sure which is easier to mount a scope on.

[44 Dan]

Thanks Halo, I'll look into the Finnish models ~ appreciate the tip ;c
NGWT, Not expecting a 1,000yd bell ringer but most can be shot out to 500yds with a LOT of effort & training ;) Thanks for the 91/30 tip, like I said this is new ground for me.

Really Appreciate The Info, 44 Dan

[MrMurphy]

The 91/30 is the one similar in length to a Mauser, standard rifle size. They're fun to shoot and generally quite accurate. You can get both 8mm and 7.62X54R new manufactured.

In Mausers, the Yugoslavian M48s are made on German machinery in Yugoslavia during/after WW2 and are well made. Copies of the 98K basically.

As to distance, my own Lee-Enfield No.4 Mk1 had no problem hitting a truck sized target at 950m and my dad's Mauser Gewehr 98 from WW1 hit the target routinely too. Also at 600m, 300m...... just takes a bit of practice. These were both with the original issued iron sights.

[44 Dan]

Thanks for all the tips Folks ~ Any personal preferences on ammo??

Any brand of military surplus better than others?

We still haven't decided on caliber. 8mm vrs 7.62x54 ???

Thanks Again, 44 Dan

[thisaway]

...only because you can get the Wolf-brand ammo inexpensively and it is noncorrosive. There are vast quantitites of both 7.92mm and 7.62mm milsurp ammo available, but it is all corrosive, so you would have to clean immediately after every single range session. This can get tedious, unless you simply don't mind cleaning that often.

My favourite 7.62x54R rifle is my 1943-made Izhevsk M91/30. I paid $80 for it and 60 rounds of milsurp ammo. It is surprisingly accurate with the lighter bullet loads, but less so with the heavy 200-grainers.

[MrMurphy]

Sellier & Bellot makes new-made noncorrosive 8mm FMJ as well as .303 and I presume 7.62X54R.

[sharpshooter]

S&B 7.62x54 is about $15 per box. Wolf is only about $5. Both are non-corrosive. Both shoot the same out of my gun.

[Decguns]

An Enfield would be far better than a Mosin or Mauser for long range shooting. But, surplus ammo is becoming hard to find and is more expensive than 8MM or 7.62X54. The sights on the Enfield's are superior and well regulated.

With Turk 8MM ammo going for about 3 cents a round in bulk, that's hard to beat. There's quite a bit of newer 1970's - 80's Mauser ammo on the market now at reasonable prices. The Yugo Mauser would be a good choice. A friend just bought one in unissued condition for $150.

Mosins are good rifles, and those captured and rearsenaled by the Finn's are the best. Of course, you'll pay significantly more for a Finnish rebuild than a surplus Russian. Ammo is available everywhere and at cheap prices.

S&B and Hot Shot offer fresh factory ammo in all these calibers for about $8 box.

[scromer]

I'll give another vote for the Finnish M39 Mosin-Nagants. These things are exceptionally accurate and have a great two-stage trigger. Ammo is cheap. Here's my 1942 VKT:

http://www.gunsnet.net/album/data//3192/26912M39-1-med.jpg

:) ;) :cool:

[scromer]

Oh, by the way, the cheapest place to get M39's is Wholesale Guns and Ammo: http://www.gunsnammo.com/

Apparently they purchased the entire Finnish arsenal stock of M39's and have been slowly releasing them into the market. Those 1968 models are practically brand new.

[MCNETT]

Get the new issue of Shooting Times. There is an excellent article comparing these two rifles head-to-head.
-Mike

[Clark]

I have both 91/30 7.62x54R and 8mm Mausers for which I paid $50, but I would not sell for $500. They would BOTH make excellent 1000 yard guns.

The thing is, I had to look at 100, and buy 20 to find these specimens.

AND I had to sporterize them.

I would be cheaper and easier to just pay the money and get a new rifle, but I had fun along the way.

[OcabJ]

The best 7.62x54R surplus is the Albanian ammo. LC Enterprises carries it.

As far as 8mm, lots of people like the Romanian and Yugoslavian.

You should assume 7.62x45R and 8mm surplus is corrosive so clean appropriately.

As far as scoping the rifle, don't drill and tap; use a scout mount. Drilling and tapping or sporterizing a fine rifle destroys a perfectly fine piece of history. With a scout mount you can mount a scope without permanently altering the rifle.

For Mosin Nagants, get the Darrell's scout mount from Parallax's C&R forum. As for the Mauser, I have a B-Square, and it works fine, but I would probably get the S&K which is probably more solid.

[Buckeye63]

The 8mm is a .328 cal. and the 7.62X54 is actually a .311 cal. like the .303 Brit. and the 7.7 Jap. and the 7.65x53 Argentine. Unless you handload your better off with the 7.62X54. Because the 8mm Mauser ammo you get off the USA shelves are loaded to 30/30 pressure levels.
I've had several Rifles that where chambered in the 7.62X54 ,(inculding a ole 1895 Winchester) But still my favorite is a M39 with a Belgium barrel,(it mics out at .308),which I've picked up at a Roses Dept. Store in 1984 for $ 35.00. I've turned down $ 250.00.

Buckeye

[44 Dan]

THANKS For All The Help Folks,
WE ended up with a real nice M44 Mosin Nagant. We got to look through several wrapped rifles when we came across a real gem. The stock is near perfect with very little handling marks. The Boomer cleaned up real nice and has the accuracy we were looking for.
We haven't put it to paper yet but it is plenty accurate for my Son.

I got the M44 and 400rds of CZ Surplus 7.62x54R for $108.00 at J&G Sales.

Thanks Again ~ 44 Dan & Adam ;c

[kels]

Stop by Walmart and get a slip on butt pad.
His shoulder will thank you.
The metal buttplate is a bit tough for a new shooter.

[rubijeep]

tomorrow at a gunshow im either going to buy a turkish 8mm mauser or mosin nagant. havent decided whether to buy the mauser, nagant, or nagant carbine. anyone have any suggestions?

[Clark]

Both are fine rifles.
Look for shiney grooves at the muzzle.

[rubijeep]

thanks i think ill buy the m44 carbine(theres a choice of about 4) ill look at the grooves thanks

[MrMurphy]

The M44 carbine has quite a bit more recoil and blast than the 91/30 Mosin-Nagant, so be warned. :)

[rubijeep]

wound up with a yugo mauser with 100 corrosive rounds. came with sling and bayonet. havent shot it yet

[Clark]

M48 and M48A Yugo Muausers often come with good bores and good accuracy.
Clean the bore after shooting, then clean with soap and water, then clean again, then put oil in the bore after corrosive ammo. Then go back every few days and make sure you cleaned it well enough and the bore is not corroding.

[rubijeep]

are non-corrosive rounds readily available at a decent price for 8mm? at another table a guy had lots of ammo but all that he had in 8mm non-corosive was expensive 170gr sp hunting ammo. 18 bucks for 20 rounds. everything else was corrosive. by the way the thing has an excellent shiny bore.

[Clark]

I used to shoot surplus ammo.
Then I shot surplus ammo to get on the paper.
Then I pulled the bullets and shot the bullets with good powder, brass, and primers, to get on the paper.
Now the surplus cases of ammo just sit in the ammo room.

I only fire so many rounds at the range, and they might as well all be good groups.