(Twin Pines) Silver Bullet .380 ACP 90 gr SJHP [Archive] - Glock Talk

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horge
07-13-2004, 15:36
I'm a bit of a .380 ACP enthusiast, but while this deals with the .380 cartridge, the rest of the calibers in this line should be worth looking into.

Twin Pines, who brought us the RIA 1911 line of pistols
has trundled out 'Silver Bullets' ---silver-jacket HP ammo, supposedly effective against 'werewolves' and undead.
;Q

http://mabma.thereeftank.com/postpics/silver.jpg

Hokey advertising blurb aside, I chrono'ed the shiny little suckers and obtained muzzle velocities way in excess of their claimed 1,034 ft/s:
http://mabma.thereeftank.com/postpics/silverchrono.jpg
ten shots, throwing out the highest and lowest, averaged 1056 ft/s out of my Bersa Thunder 380. Max. deviation of velocity among the 8 was 19 ft/s. The disregarded low was 1033 ft/s, and the discarded high was 1074 ft/s.

Water testing (elsewhere) showed expansion about equal to water expansion of Remington Golden Sabers, over 76% though the expansion was at times lopsided, with some fragmentation of the lip. That's in water though, not gel or meat. Recoil was pretty stiff, and while the report sounded (in the words of one onlooker) like very hot 9mm, the muzzle flash was no worse than a PMC/El Dorado Starfire's.

Thanks, to Cute and Ian of P.B.Dionisio Firng range for making available the chronograph, which was "calibrated" against known performers like the Remington GS, Fiocchi and Armscor .380 cartridges: the chrono was dead-on.

At the range, I got to meet 'Arnold' from Fairview with his S&W 9mm, and a very experienced marksman named 'Joji', toting his custom Para Ordnance. Mustachioed Joji seemed a bit impressed with the apparent power of these Silver Bullet 90 gr JHP's.

There's one major problem with these cartridges though...
For some reason, Twin Pines has stopped selling them in 25-round boxes, and has opted for 6 in a pseudo-blister pack. Now, the problem is that the plastic 'blister' is sized for six .45 ACP cartridges. To keep the smaller .380's from rolling loosely in the pack, Twin Pines has resorted to a strip of Scotch tape across the cases. This leaves a serious amount of adhesive gum on said cases when you liberate them from the tape strip --enough goop to cause mag hangups!

I had to clean each casing of adhesive --and I hate having to do that because it's cleaning up someone else's mistake, and particularly because (depending on any cleaning agent used) it can potentially harm the cartridge propellant.

Twin Pines really needs to think when selecting its packaging strategies. This is a big enough turn-off for me to disregard what is otherwise a very worthy self-defense cartridge. I transmitted this complaint to the salesgirls at Twin Pines MCS, who indicated they would pass it on to the owners.

The Silver Bullet .380 90gr SJHP retails for P18.00 a cartridge.


horge

ogiebb
07-13-2004, 16:06
thanks great info:)

by the way yan ba yung frankenstein Chrono ng PB ? i miss that range hope to do some shooting there this January:cool:

9MX
07-13-2004, 19:46
some shooters use the phone directory as targets for JHPs:)

mc_oliver
07-13-2004, 20:33
Thanks for the info horge.

Need some 380 ammo kasi yung hydra's ko are already several years old. I just found out I have Triton hi-vel's as well but for the life of me I can't remember anymore kung saan ko nabili. Have you seen any of these anywhere?

WFO2
07-13-2004, 20:48
got any links for that ammo in 45ACP

batangueno
07-13-2004, 21:47
Nice review horge. ^c

Are the heads made fully of silver or just silver plated? Will there be any concerns with regards to barrel wear?

horge
07-13-2004, 23:07
ogie,
The franken-chrony indeed, hehe
It looked more like a poultry egg incubator to me, first time.

mc,
Triton Hi-Vel?
Haven't seen any locally.

WFO,
As far as I know, this thread is one of the only online references to the cartridges. Twin Pines hasn't been forthcoming about exactly where and how the cartridges are made ---supposedly it's in-house, but who knows? As for performance claims/stats on the .45 ACP Silver Bullets, maybe someone here in Manila can stop by a Casa Armas or Twin Pines outlet, and check out the info on the back of the blister pack, and then post them here for ya :)

Paul,
Hi!
Lead core in a silver jacket, according to Twin Pines MCS.
Pure copper and pure silver turn out to be close to each other in terms of hardness, but it's unlikely these cartridges use pure silver.
Depends what the silver's been alloyed with, but the most common alloying metal for silver is.... copper. Whatever composition the jacket is, I doubt it's hard enough to hurt the barrel any worse than a copper jacket :)

mc_oliver
07-13-2004, 23:13
Originally posted by batangueno
Nice review horge. ^c

Are the heads made fully of silver or just silver plated? Will there be any concerns with regards to barrel wear?
I think silver is too soft to do damage sa bore. I remember dati I have the very old winchester silvertips. I can practically collapse the hollow cavity with my fingers.

horge
07-14-2004, 01:58
WFO of Texas:
Gotta love phones.
Gotta love super-helpful salesgirls even more.

(Twin Pines) Silver Bullet
Manufacturer's Claims of Performance

.45 ACP 180 gr SJHP
Muzzle Velocity 1000 ft/s

9mm Parabellum 115 gr SJHP
Muzzle Velocity 1236 ft/s

hth :)

horge

Eye Cutter
07-14-2004, 06:45
horge: those are not real silver, are they? most probably nickel plated, like the cases. your chrono results are impressive.

so you met Joji SJ! El Prez, JMY, knows him also. He is one character and is a very enjoyable person. Parating masaya sa range pag andun siya ;f

horge
07-14-2004, 07:53
Hi Doc A. :)

Si, Seņor Joji is a lively, friendly fellow!
Hell of a shot, too. Kept four slowfire rounds of 9mm Parabellum within an inch (right between where the eyes would be on PB's cardboard silhouettes) at a range of 25 or so feet --that, on a borrowed pistol (Arnold's S&W).

As for the cartridges, --jackets are just too white to be nickel. I guess they could be white brass (more zinc than copper), but more likely they're of a very low-content silver alloy involving white brass.

:)
horge

Eye Cutter
07-14-2004, 17:06
;f hehehe. Sa dami na ng inubos na bala ni Joji, gumaling na rin yung mama'! He had a bad run during the Bolo Cup, though. Kept on missing boards and re-engaging plates and poppers then. Turned out the rear sight pin of his pistol's Bomar type sights broke and the gun came out of zero. Consuelo niya, we ended up Production Division Team Champs! (wala kasi kalaban!)hehehe ;f

Are you still using the Mobil 1 oil I gave you? That's still what I use on all my firearms!

;K

horge
07-14-2004, 17:42
Thanks again on my uncle's behalf!
The Mobil 1 sample you gave me went straight to my uncle.
He's been receiving treatment in the US for a condition discovered during orthopedic surgery, so a little prayer and positive energy sent his way would be very much appreciated.

I bought a quart of Mobil 1, though.
I alternate between that and Shell Helix Ultra,
with Outer's Gun Oil as a thinner for certain gum-prone places.


:)
horge

antediluvianist
07-15-2004, 06:03
"The Silver Bullet .380 90gr SJHP retails for P18.00 a cartridge."

Horge, you seemed to imply that Twin Pines is selling this kind of bullet in various calibers.

For my S&W 686+, who do I call by phone at Twin Pines to verify availabliity and price for .38spcl standard HP,.38spcl +P HP, and .357 Magnum ?

p18 a round is OK for a nonreload. Let me know, Horge.

horge
07-15-2004, 15:14
Not sure about different loadings within one caliber (normal vs. +P), as these already seem hot, but I suppose they offer the cartridge in .357 and .38 Spl ---best to ask by phone, though:

Twin Pines, Makati Cinema Square 811-1241
Twin Pines, Robinson's Galleria 634-0885
I suppose the Casa Armas outlets would also carry these cartridges

When you ask for specs, ask for "bullet weight" and "velocity".
If you ask for "muzzle velocity", some of the tired folks on the line will quote the "muzzle energy" numbers instead.


There's a lot of interesting ammo out there today.
There's the H.E.A.T. cartridges (also from Twin Pines)
There's even a (likely-illegal) penetrator-JHP-shotshell widget from Arambulo.
Maybe next year Twin Pines will release an improved "Silver Bullet", one loaded with holy water.
;f

Eye Cutter
07-16-2004, 19:09
horge: i remember that you made custom grips for your Bersa. I came across a plank of Philippine ebonywood that I'm having someone make grips for my pistols. Can you post on how to refinish the wood? And what stains or oils are available here in RP? I have no idea on wood finishes and refinishing. I want the kamagong to come out with a high luster with the lighter colored grain contrasting the dark wood. Thanks!

;K

9MX
07-17-2004, 09:19
Originally posted by Eye Cutter
I want the kamagong to come out with a high luster with the lighter colored grain contrasting the dark wood. Thanks!

;K

Eyecutter

yan baga yung finish nung mga yoyong gawa sa kamagong na binebenta sa Baguio?;e

Eye Cutter
07-17-2004, 09:26
yung nga! pati yung mga arnis sticks na yari sa kamagong.

Valor1
07-17-2004, 19:03
Eyecutter,
Have you visited Ace hardware's paint section. Dami nilang mga paints doon na pwedeng i-alter or add markings on wood.

horge
07-17-2004, 20:34
Hi Doc :)

Some kamagong pieces naturally have light/dark veins running through it. Some don't. It can be very hard to fake this veining, because there's no telling how the wood will absorb selective stain --or in which direction. I know some guys who use paint to fake the darker veins (or the lighter ones), then cover it up with lacquer --but it's easy to tell.

Kamagong's already a rich-colored wood, so I wouldn't stain it or anything. Polyurethane coatings tend to darken the underlying wood even further, so if it was up to me and the wood grain is atractive enough already (easy to check raw wood --just apply a little oil or waer to a flat part, and you'll have an idea of the final (darker) color.

Ordinary clear-gloss lacquer na lang, po.
Any hardware store should have this and 1 liter is enough for ten pairs of grips. Make sure the liquid doesn't have any humidity-induced clouding sa bottom. In fact, don't lacquer on sunless, humid days ---can be very bad juju (ugly clouded finish).

Very thin coat, [color=red]dry thoroughly[//color], sand fine ---repeat 20x or so, hehe. Too thick a finish might lead to cracking pag nag-flex ang wood. Polish w/ a cotton rag.

You'll get a finely-smooth satin finish which normal handling can polich even further. If you want it pimpin' glossy, hehe, pa-galingan na lang ng pag-brush on: a broad-brush thin coat-- just enough lacquer to settle out any brush stroke texture, but not too much or it will lump/run.

:)
hth

Eye Cutter
07-17-2004, 23:57
thanks horge. i saw the website of hakan pek grips and he uses tung oil to treat the wood.

;K

mikey177
07-21-2004, 00:52
Originally posted by horge


There's a lot of interesting ammo out there today.
There's the H.E.A.T. cartridges (also from Twin Pines)

Has anybody shot the H.E.A.T. ammo that horge mentioned? How does it perform?

Tools Trading, a sister company of Twin Pines, is the closest gun store to our place, and I saw this ammo on display at their store. Was tempted to buy a box in 9mm for testing, but I wanted to ask if any of you guys had tried it first.

Valor1
08-11-2004, 10:22
Ah follow-up din sa question ni mikey177. anybody ever tried the H.E.A.T. cartridges from Twin Pines? Seems interesting. Thanks

horge
08-11-2004, 17:47
Anak ng tokwa naman, o...
(Son of a fried beancurd, pfffhhh...)

I'll join the chorus...someone please buy a blisterpack of H.E.A.T. in 9mm or cal 45, and chrono the suckers, so the rest us BoG's can benefit, hehe. They don't make H.E.A.T. (High Energy Ammunition Technology) in .380 ACP, so I ain't buyin....

:) :) :)

Valor1
08-11-2004, 18:27
Horge,
wala nga para sa Bersa mo pero meron naman para sa Rock Island Armory mo. Uy bibili na yan. Share your experiences ha?

horge
08-11-2004, 18:55
Originally posted by Valor1
Horge,
wala nga para sa Bersa mo pero meron naman para sa Rock Island Armory mo. Uy bibili na yan. Share your experiences ha?

Uhhmmm, a, hehe...
;e ;e ;e
Ya got me there....except the 1911 still isn't in my hands..
hehe. I might buy some H.E.A.T. and run it off a rental 1911, though.

mc_oliver
10-04-2004, 20:07
Originally posted by horge
Hi Doc :)

Some kamagong pieces naturally have light/dark veins running through it. Some don't. It can be very hard to fake this veining, because there's no telling how the wood will absorb selective stain --or in which direction. I know some guys who use paint to fake the darker veins (or the lighter ones), then cover it up with lacquer --but it's easy to tell.

Kamagong's already a rich-colored wood, so I wouldn't stain it or anything. Polyurethane coatings tend to darken the underlying wood even further, so if it was up to me and the wood grain is atractive enough already (easy to check raw wood --just apply a little oil or waer to a flat part, and you'll have an idea of the final (darker) color.

Ordinary clear-gloss lacquer na lang, po.
Any hardware store should have this and 1 liter is enough for ten pairs of grips. Make sure the liquid doesn't have any humidity-induced clouding sa bottom. In fact, don't lacquer on sunless, humid days ---can be very bad juju (ugly clouded finish).

Very thin coat, [color=red]dry thoroughly[//color], sand fine ---repeat 20x or so, hehe. Too thick a finish might lead to cracking pag nag-flex ang wood. Polish w/ a cotton rag.

You'll get a finely-smooth satin finish which normal handling can polich even further. If you want it pimpin' glossy, hehe, pa-galingan na lang ng pag-brush on: a broad-brush thin coat-- just enough lacquer to settle out any brush stroke texture, but not too much or it will lump/run.

:)
hth
Hello horge. Few more q's about refinishing, hope you don't mind:

1. For kamagong wood, is it possible to stain it to a more reddish color without masking the natural grain of the wood? Meron kasi sa Ace mga imported stains. I was wondering if it can be done.

2. Can I use bleach to whiten the wood? If so, what brand? And will it not weaken the wood especially kung manipis na?

3. Lastly, ano ba yung sealant? What does it do?

Thanks a lot.

horge
10-05-2004, 18:25
Hi Mc_o

Hope you're feeling better :)

Kamagong? The lighter portions (not all of a typical kamagong blank is superdark brown) can be stained, but staining it red... I dunno.

Bleach "stain" draws out the color (the reddish-brown) from the wood, so that it beads up on the surface like blood and can be wiped off. It works if the wood is already light, but a lot of wood tends to come out an icky greenish yellow after 'bleach-staining'.

Sealant? Anything that successfully coats the wood, forming a barrier against the outside environment, like a lacquer coat, etc. Some exposed wood can sometimes swell with humidity, cracking a hard finish on one side, so we try to seal all sides of a piece.

A 'sanding sealer' does the same thing, but is really meant more for filling in surface voids and controlling wayward wood fiber while the surface is sanded down. Then, proper lacquer or other


:)

mc_oliver
10-05-2004, 19:23
Thanks for the info, dre. :)