Sistema question??

[adamsbomb]

I was just curious for anyone with knowledge of sistema's. could someone give me an ideal why the pistol in the first attachment received 13 bids and sold for 470 while the one in the second got no bids and couldn't sell for 400? They are both army marked and are all matching number pistols. Any ideas or input is appreciated, I am lookin at buyin one of them. thanks in advance

[adamsbomb]

Here is the second one

[Sugarfoot]

The obvious thing is the grips on #2.. I seriously doubt those are original..

Is that enough of a reason ??
I have no clue..

[adamsbomb]

Lol, yeah, thought same on grips, but they have the colt emblem didn't see that as a big drawback, who knows

[Sugarfoot]

The only explanation might be that some people are more of a stickler for originality than others.

Mine has checkered wood which I'm guessing is more period correct..

[adamsbomb]

yeah, I figured I could swap the grips for some period original type sistema grips and keep the white colt grips for some other future pimp gun lol;f

[Mushinto]

I looked at this post because I just saw one at a gun show with a three-digit serial number. Seller said that the first thousand were made in the U.S. by Colt and shipped to Argentina with the tooling. Asking price was $600. I've known the guy for a while and he doesn't usually BS me. Anyone know if this is a true story?

The only listing for Sistema serial numbers I can find says they started with #24,001 in 1945.

ML

[Sugarfoot]

Can't help ya with the 3 digit serial number.. Might be BS might not.. I have seen them advertied with no #'s ??

Maybe a do it yourself thing ??

I have one in the 103000 range that I paid $299 for about 3 yrs ago..

$600 seems like a lot..
If that story about the numbers is correct maybe they'd be worth that..

I did A Google search but couldn't come up with any verification on that story..SO.. Guess I'm no help to you..

[wicked1]

I have a matching numbers one serial 276** that I paid 499 for.

[brownie]

Systema info?
Here you go:

Sistema Colt 1927 DGFM(FMAP)
year made - qty made - serial no. range

1945 - 6,000 - #24,001 -#30,000
1946 - 7,628 - #30,001 -#37,628
1947 - 5,000 - #37,629 -#42,628
1948 - 7,000 - #42,629 -#49,628
1949 - 5,000 - #49,629 -#54,628
1950 - 8,000 - #54,629 -#62,628
1951 - 8,011 - #62,629 -#70,639
1952 - 7,016 - #70,640 -#77,655
1953 - 2,500 - #77,656 -#80,155
1954 - 5,000 - #80,156 -#85,155
1955 - 2,500 - #85,156 -#87,655
1956 - 2,500 - #87,656 -#90,155
1957 - 5,626 - #90,156 -#95,781
1958 - 5,547 - #95,782-#101,328
1959 - 5,000 - #101,329-#106,328
1960 - 2,066 - #106,329-#108,394
1961 - 1,000 - #108,395-#109,394
1962 - 0
1963 - 600 - #109,395 -#109,994
1964 - 750 - #109,995 - #110,744
1965 - 1,250 - #110,745-#111,994
1966 - 500 - #111,995 - #112,494

___________________________________________________________

HISTORICAL DATA
In 1927, the Argentine Commission for Foreign Acquisitions negotiated a contract with Colt for the manufacture of .45 caliber self loading pistols specially marked and serial
numbered in a separate series, and secured a licensing agreement giving the Argentine
government the right to manufacture these pistols in Argentina. The agreement specified:

1. Colt would manufacture 10,000 Colt automatic pistols, caliber .45, Argentine Model 1927 for the Argentine Army,
2) that the complete knowledge base for future production of the pistols in Argentina, to include drawings, manufacturing instructions, material specifications, tool requirements, etc. would be transferred to Argentine control, and
3) that Argentine technicians would be trained in manufacturing operations and inspection.

In 1943, the Argentine Military Small Arms Factory (FMAP - Fabrica Militar de Armas
Portatiles) began to prepare for the manufacture of Model 1927 pistols under the 1927
licensing agreement. These pistols were known as "Pistola Sistema "Colt" Modelo Argentino 1927, Calibre 11,25mm." Production began at the Esteban de Luca Arsenal in Buenos Aires, with the first pistols actually being assembled at the Domingo Matheu plant in Rosario, Argentina in 1945. The pistols were manufactured in accordance with Colt's 1927 drawings. They were exact copies of Colt's 1927 pistols (identical to US military M1911A1 pistols) except for very minor differences, and parts were interchangeable. The only noticeable differences were the markings, grips, black oxide bluing, a sharp edge on the rear of the hammer, and a sharp edge on the heel of the grip safety. Triggers were solid as on the 1927 Colts , and the checkering on the mainspring housing was changed from Colt type cut checkering to indented checkering.

Barrels on pistols issued to the Army had blued chambers, but the chambers on Navy, police, and commercial barrels were milled after being blued, which resulted in a bright unfinished surface comparable to Colt commercial barrels. Serial numbers were stamped on the barrels prior to bluing, and therefore, bluing remained inside the numbers.

The Sistema Colt pistols were made for the army, navy, air force, government bureaus,
police organizations, and commercial sales. They were normally serial numbered on the right side of the receiver, the grip frame under the mainspring housing, on the top and right side of the slide, on the top of the chamber and the bottom of the magazine. The presence of an Argentine crest on the pistol indicates government issue; pistols without crests were made for local police, non-government agencies, commercial sales and export. All Sistema Colt pistols bear the marking D.G.F.M. - (F.M.A.P.) on the left side of the slide, which indicates manufacture by the Direccion General de Fabricaciones Militares at the Fabrica Militar de Armas Portatiles. A total of 88,494 Sistema Colt pistols were produced.

THE US COLLECTOR MARKET
There has always been a market in the United States for M1911A1 style pistols, as is
evidenced by the continuing strong sales of such pistols, the plethora of "new" models that are brought out every year, and the huge aftermarket parts and customization industry that has grown up around the venerable .45. The problem has been that while the nature of the pistols hasn't changed much since 1927 when the 1911A1 was introduced, the cost has uniformly increased over the years, to the extent that it is hard to buy even a used 1911A1 style pistol for less than $400, and new guns can run into the thousands of dollars. As a result, many US shooters and collectors who have long wanted a ".45," have been daunted by the steep prices. However, with the recent importation of large numbers of Argentine military .45's, the wait may just be over!

I have one in the 1951 range all original that I had all internals replaced for pins and springs and carry it regularly as a protection piece. It runs flawlessly

Hope that helps

Brownie

[Sugarfoot]

Brownie,

Thanks for the great info..

[brownie]

Sugerfoot:

Most welcome sir.

Brownie