124 vs 147

[RyanSBHF]

I'm trying to find an ideal self defense 9mm load. I've decided to get Hydra hok, but can't decide which bullet weight. What are your opinions on the 124 and 147 grains 9mm's? I've heard 147 hits harder, but also heard that the 124's faster speed makes it more deadly. Which is better?

[hotpig]

If you could answer that question you would be the next ammo guru. There are two schools of thought. The lighter faster or heavy deeper crowds.Both groups can give you actual shoot data to back up their preferences.Both have valid claims.

It really is you and your guns decision to make.Shoot both weights and see what works best for you. The round that you shoot best and functions flawlessly in your gun IS the ideal self defense 9mm load for that gun.Just my .02 stay safe...

[J.P.]

Shop around and find some Rangers in either weight.
Good stuff!

I carry the CorBon 125gr +p.

[CougarRed]

Hydra Shok is old technology. The state of the art are:

Federal: Tactical (Law Enforcement), HST (Hydra Shok Two)

Winchester: Ranger T (Law Enforcement, but available to public at a reasonable price and probably the best ammo on the market), Partition Gold (Law Enforcement)

Speer: Gold Dot (also made by Black Hills, ProLoad, Georgia Arms)

Remington: Golden Sabre (stay away from the Bonded version)

As for Cor-Bon, I have never seen a terminal ballistics scientist advocate it. It's "hot" ammo, but that does not translate into great performance in the FBI protocol tests.

On the 9mm issue, Ranger T 147s are universally applauded. Other rounds that do very well in FBI testing are:

Speer/Black Hills Gold Dot 147
Remington Golden Sabre 147 (non-bonded)
Federal Tactical 135 +p
Ranger T 127 +p+
Ranger Partition Gold 124
Federal Tactical 124
Speer/Black Hills Gold Dot 124
Speer/Black Hills Gold Dot 124 +p
Remington Golden Sabre 124 (non-bonded)

[sundance43.5]

Originally posted by CougarRed


As for Cor-Bon, I have never seen a terminal ballistics scientist advocate it. It's "hot" ammo, but that does not translate into great performance in the FBI protocol tests.




I'm glad somebody said it. If you look at the ballistics for most of CorBon's stuff, they perform atrociously.

To me, it's just a niche ammo. There is so much better stuff out there like the Ranger "T" series or Speer's Gold Dot line.

[lkblair]

I carry the Ranger T 147 grain.

I aggree about the CORBON, I find that in my Inglis, the hollowpoint design doest feed at all, my Inligs will feed ALL other HPs except the Corbon

[JC24]

CougarRed,

What is the problem with the bonded GS?

Also, I asked you a couple of questions on whether the recommended Rem GS124 gr. is the standard or the +p version? and on whether the order of the list of recommended ammo which you shared with us (the thread was ammo recommendation from the experts, posted on Caliber Corner) established an order of priority/preference between the listed bullets.

Thx. very much.

JC24, from Santo Domingo, Dominican Republic

[CCV]

I currently rely on the 124's.

[clubsoda22]

I use rangers. 127+p+. They don't penetrate quite as far as the 147gr, but they penetrate far enough and i feel the added velocity makes for more reliable expansion through thick clothing, though i have never seen 147gr rangers have a problem with that. When it comes down to it, whichever weight shoots better for you is the one to pick, though i stay away from 115gr because they tend to frag, causing insufficient penetration.

I do not like corbon simply because they seem to have issues with jacket seperation. When a bullet looses weight it looses penetration, which is a key factor for incapacitation.

[Michigun]

Originally posted by hotpig
There are two schools of thought. The lighter faster or heavy deeper crowds.Both groups can give you actual shoot data to back up their preferences.Both have valid claims.

Yup, this is why the mid-weight (124-grain & 127-grain) 9mm bullets are so darn popular... if you can't decide on whether to go with a "light & fast" 115-grainer or a "heavy & slow" 147-grainer you can always go in between. You get a little of both this way! ;)

[Catbird]

Who knows?

Here's my best guess, though. I tend to use Winchester Ranger T series 127gr. +P+ 9mm in my guns with 4" bbls. and longer. In my guns with shorter bbls. where higher velocity is difficult to achieve (like my Kahr PM9, CZ RAMI, G26), I tend to go with the Winchester Ranger T series 147gr. ammo.

I plan on doing some unscientific wet newspaper testing of these two rounds sometime in the not-too-distant future.

[frdsrul]

I'm currently useing 147gr Speer Gold Dots. I also carry 124gr +p Speer Gold Dots as well but, they are harder to find in my area (which is why I'm carrying 147gr right now). As long as you don't use the 115 gr stuff you will be fine.

[Dandapani]

From my testing with my PM9, 147 is the way to go. Any of them will work, penetration and expansion, even WWB 147 JHP.

[Michigun]

Originally posted by Catbird
I tend to use Winchester Ranger T series 127gr. +P+ 9mm in my guns with 4" bbls. and longer. In my guns with shorter bbls. where higher velocity is difficult to achieve (like my Kahr PM9, CZ RAMI, G26), I tend to go with the Winchester Ranger T series 147gr. ammo.

Exact same here.

Originally posted by frdsrul
As long as you don't use the 115 gr stuff you will be fine.

That one should get this tread hopping nicely! ;f

[sundance43.5]

Originally posted by Catbird
Who knows?

Here's my best guess, though. I tend to use Winchester Ranger T series 127gr. +P+ 9mm in my guns with 4" bbls. and longer. In my guns with shorter bbls. where higher velocity is difficult to achieve (like my Kahr PM9, CZ RAMI, G26), I tend to go with the Winchester Ranger T series 147gr. ammo.

I plan on doing some unscientific wet newspaper testing of these two rounds sometime in the not-too-distant future.

It should be the other way around. In longer guns, you don't need the extra pressure to gain velocity because of the barrel length. Here you should be using 147gr or just +p ammo.

In shorter barrels, like you said, velocity is harder to achieve, so you use the faster rounds.

[cl147]

#1 concern should be reliability. If your pistol works flawlessly, carry it comfortably.

My pistols, and I, like the 147 grain loads. :)

[C9X19]

I shoot 124 grain FMJ rounds by remington from www.wideners.com They are very nice to shoot. For carry, I'd recommend 147 grain for the extra weight for stopping power. But for competition and range work, 124 is nice.

[Steve in Utah]

Out of the 6 - 8 ballistic gelatin tests I've viewed, the 9mm Ranger T (RA9T) in 147-gr. is the clear winner. Here are a few other police rounds that performed very well:

1. Ranger T: (RA9T) in 147-gr.
2. Ranger T: (RA9TA) in 127-gr. +P+
3. Speer Gold Dot: 124-gr. in standard pressure and +P
4. Federal Premium: (P9HS3G) in 124-gr. +P+

[Az Stealth]

If I anticipate the need for "heavy deeper" bullets, I carry my 45acp Sig P220. If heavy/deeper is what you're after, 230 grains will do a LOT more than 147.

When I'm carrying a caliber with "little" bullets, I want them moving FAST. However Speer Gold Dots in either 115 or 124 grain suit me just fine. :)

ps. I'm not disparaging 9mm; it's my favorite caliber. And no, I wouldn't care to be shot be a 147gr; but that doesn't prove much, because I don't care to be shot even by a bb. :cool:

[Hugo R]

I experienced the complete opposite a few years back. One of the guys I was working with was carjacked. Fortunately he had time to draw his duty weapon from his off duty fanny pack and put four rounds into the BG.

One round hit the ten ring slicing the aorta and the second bore a hole throught the upper left ventricle of the heart. However, the bullets went right through and the BG (thankfully) ran away with no more fight;P ;P ;P .

He made it sixty feet away, jumped into a car and gave orders to the other vampires to take him to the hosipital because he was bleeding real bad. He was right because he never made it to the hospital.

The round was a Federal 124gr.JHP+P+ Hydrashok. A couple of years later, I took a Javalina with one shot through the shoulders, same ammo. I carry that ammo camping or hiking:cool: .

A few months ago a guy at work put one round into a BG at five yards. Ten ring chest shot, the bullet did not go through but did penetrate enough to create a lump in the BG's back. BG dropped "like a sack of potatoes" according to the guy at work.

The round was a Winchester 147gr. Ranger SXT. And that's what I'll be carrying on duty for now ;b!

[Catbird]

Originally posted by Hugo R
...BG dropped "like a sack of potatoes" according to the guy at work.
The round was a Winchester 147gr. Ranger SXT. And that's what I'll be carrying on duty for now ;b!
BINGO!!!~2

[N723RW]

Originally posted by Hugo R

The round was a Winchester 147gr. Ranger SXT. And that's what I'll be carrying on duty for now ;b!

It's all I carry in my 9mm's including my G26. I buy the stuff by the case. ^c

[SkYmAn]

Originally posted by cl147
#1 concern should be reliability. If your pistol works flawlessly, carry it comfortably.

My pistols, and I, like the 147 grain loads. :)


;Y Im with this guy:cool:

[Steve in Utah]

The 9mm 147-gr. HP round is very hard to beat and more than holds its own against the larger calibers. As an example, look how well it compares to the 40 S&W 165-gr.:

Ranger T Comparison - 9mm versus 40 S&W

Bare Gelatin:
9mm 147-gr (RA9T) = 13.9" / .65"
40 S&W 165-gr. HP = 12.7" / .61" (RA40TA)

4-Ply Denim:
9mm 147-gr (RA9T) = 14.5" / .66"
40 S&W 165-gr. HP = 13.2" / .70" (RA40TA)

[ColoradoPacker]

Originally posted by Xminor
Shop around and find some Rangers in either weight.
Good stuff!

I carry the CorBon 125gr +p.

Why not recommend what you carry?

[Hugo R]

Now that I have touted the Winchester 147gr. Ranger SXT, do any of you have any experience with the 147gr. sub-sonic? After all these years on the range I no not have much experience with this round. I have come into a case of the stuff and have heard that it is an awesome two legged vermin stopper. I need some input!

[cl147]

Both Winchester 147 grain JHP (Ranger and White Box) loads are rated at about 990fps, which makes them subsonic.

IIRC, the Subsonic moniker and Deep Penetrator moniker use the same bullet as the present White Box loads.

[DocH]

The best way to find the truth is to read all of the stopping power books by Marshall and Sanow,then disregard everything they say and do just the opposite.

[cl147]

Originally posted by DocH
The best way to find the truth is to read all of the stopping power books by Marshall and Sanow,then disregard everything they say and do just the opposite.
^6