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Teddybear
07-23-2004, 11:22
Has anyone had problems with Sellier&Bellot ammo in 357 sig?. I took my new 32 to the range and averaged 1 mis-fire per 10 rounds. Had good hit on the primer, but no go.;P

G33
07-23-2004, 12:46
Have seen a number of reports of hard primers in S&B.

LewisQ
07-23-2004, 15:46
We use S&B in several calibers. My wife has 6 guns in 357 SIG, I have 4. Glock, SIG, Steyr, HK.

For some reason only the 357 SIG S&B has the hard primer problem in all guns, no exceptions. It goes from as bad as 2-3 per 10 to 2 per box of 50.

Makes S&B very useful for malfunction drills...

7677
07-25-2004, 21:44
Can't we get a sticky for this subject?

Check out the following link:
http://glocktalk.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=255605

OrdnanceOutsell
08-17-2004, 13:53
Yeah, I have shot a few thousand S&B .357sig rounds, and on some days I average one hard primer PER MAG, while other days it seems to be one per box. I gather this is common amongst you all, too?

James

deltaopwong
08-28-2004, 23:35
S&B primers are hard in their .357 load. Fortunately I shot 25 rounds of the 140gr through my KKM .357 G35 and all 25 rounds fired without a hitch. I'm going to try 50 rounds on my G32 with the factory barrel and with a KKM .357 (G32/23) barrel. I have a good feeling that I may have a couple of failures to ignite on the factory barrel while I think the KKM barrel will fire all the rounds. The KKM chamber headspacing might be a little on the tighter side. Glocks barrel/chamber tolerances are towards combat reliability as the KKM barrel tolerances are towards the match grade level. The chamber headspace might be tight enough that the striker will be able to ignite the hard primer more often than with the Glock barrel. Nothing wrong with Glocks' barrels I'm just saying S&B's .357 load primers SUCK! Stan

Eliakim
09-06-2004, 13:43
Does S&B .357 SIG ammo shoot okay in other pistols besides Glocks? Could it be that the "hard" primers are borderline hard, i.e. shooting well in some guns and not others? If the stuff works well in hammer-fired SIG's and Glocks with extra-heavy striker springs, it may well be that the problem isn't really the ammo. The shooter may have an ammo sensitive gun.

Being sensitive is good if you're a poet, it's not so good if you're a combat pistol.

I vaguely remember the U.S. government 9mm pistol tests from the early 1980's. A couple or more of brands of "wonder 9" pistols lost points because of low-energy firing pin strikes. The Beretta and the SIG didn't have that issue. They gave the primers a good smack.
:soap:

Glockguy
09-06-2004, 17:39
I have shot several thousand rounds of the 140 Gr. .357 Sig through my G32 and G33 without any problems whatsoever.

Regards,
Glockguy

Lonerunner1
09-13-2004, 22:19
I have ran about 500 rds of it through my 31. I have never had a problem with it, but for what ever reason, about a month ago when I let my freind shoot it, he kept getting duds. I would load up a few mags to see and blast though them with no problems. I don't know what the deal was.

uncle_walty
09-14-2004, 23:06
Shot 100 rounds of S&B 357 Sig from SportsmansGuide through my Steyr M357 and had 2 fail to fire on first strike. The S&B ammo also left a lot of what looks like unburnt powder grains, looks like sand, in the gun. Anyone else seen that?

Texas Tea
09-24-2004, 11:36
Well, this subject just keeps hanging around. Here is another thread with some more opinions...

http://glocktalk.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=255605&perpage=25&highlight=denver%20dick&pagenumber=1

I have yet to have any failure to fires in my Glock Mod. 31, but I purchased an extra power stiker spring for my parts kit, just in case. I will install it when...and if...I have any problems. I am taking my CZ52 and one of my three Makarovs to the range this weekend. I think I'll take the Glock 31 and put another 50 rds of S&B through it and see if I have any problems. :cool:

By the way, you guys having problems...what kind of recoil spring do you have? Factory? Wolff? Other? Also, you're not shooting limp wristed like a school girl, are you? That might result in the pistol not going into complete battery. ^3

7677
09-24-2004, 11:56
Speaking of S&B and CTD, CTD is out of S&B 357sig ammo. I wonder if they got sick of the complaints and sent their on hand quanty back to S&B? The other day, I fired 50 rounds of Gold Dots through both my G31 and G33 no hard primers problems. Since there are some of you that are not having hard primer problems, it gives me hope that S&B has fixed the problem with their newer lots. Now the problem is finding these newer lots without getting stuck with 1,000rds of hard primer infested ammo.

uncle_walty
09-25-2004, 22:38
So far, only the S&B 357 Sig have failed to fire on first strike. Shot much more Speer Lawman through the same gun with no problems. So in my case, I'm convinced it is the ammo and not the gun or the shooter. Accuracy is about the same between the 2 brands. Recoil is similar even though the Lawman is 125gr and the S&B is 140gr. The Lawman doesn't leave that grainy residue that S&B does.

Texas Tea
09-27-2004, 12:37
Well, I took my Glock 31 out and three boxes of different lot numbers. I'm posting this from work and don't have my notes with me and I can't recall the second set of digits for one of the lot numbers, but they were 29 ??, 43 17, and 44 10. The only problem I had (and have ever had in over 600 rds of S&B fired) occurred with the latest lot number, 44 10. Everything else shot great with a nice strike on the primers.

I may have had a failure to fire with lot 44 10. I say "may" because my concentration was broken at the time. I failed to seat the magazine fully and upon firing, the magazine fell. Fortunely, I was using a two hand hold and I was able to catch the magazine before it cleared the pistol. I cleared the pistol, reinserted the magazine, and continued but I was not happy with myself for failing to seat the magazine properly. It was on, I believe, the first round after reinserting the magazine that I had the click. I brought the slide back just enough to reset the striker and...bang. I examined the primers of several spent cases from this lot number and there appeared well struck.

Before this I had shot the box of lot 29 ?? with no problems. After the incident, I shot the box of lot 43 17 with no problems. I wish I had another box of lot 44 10 to try again, but out of 15 boxes of various lots, it was the only box of that lot number I had.

Since this is the first and only time I have had any trouble with S&B, I'm not going to install my extra power striker spring I have in my parts kit. I will continue to shoot S&B in my standard Glock 31 and report here if I have another glitch.

In fact, if all of you who have had problems with S&B want to send that crappy ammo to me, I promise that I will shoot it and report my findings here on the board. ;)

emperorbob
10-08-2004, 16:35
Just got done shooting 300 rounds of this stuff and had 53 rounds fail to fire....won't be purchasing this stuff again.:(

Texas Tea
10-08-2004, 21:25
Emperorbob:

And the lot numbers were...?

Also, after the first ten or so failures you should have stopped and sent all the remaining ammo to me for further testing. ;)

Seriously, though, it would help if you posted the lot numbers.

Thanks,

emperorbob
10-08-2004, 22:47
Where exactly do I find the lot number?

uncle_walty
10-08-2004, 23:20
Originally posted by emperorbob
Where exactly do I find the lot number?

It's on the inside of the box end flap. It'll say something like "47*23". Not sure how to translate that back to manufacture date. I like ammo that has the lot number on the outside of the box like the Speer Lawman. Easier to make sure you're getting the same lot when buying at a store.

emperorbob
10-08-2004, 23:45
47 4 and 42 25. 37 out of 53 that didn't fire where from lot 47 4.

Clem Eastwood
11-09-2004, 22:11
out of the several thousand rounds of S&B .357 SIG i put thru my SIG Sauer P229 i never had a single problem. maybe its because my firing pin is struck with a hammer ;f

Eliakim
11-10-2004, 17:45
I think you hit the nail on the head Clem.

After reading and thinking about it for some time now, I really think the .357 SIG is about the best autoloading pistol cartridge in the world. It's got high velocity and penetration in a small package with relatively modest recoil.

plumbum2
11-13-2004, 22:45
just to add. same hard primers problems here..

hk usp compact. .357sig. same probs. with ammo.

Teddybear
11-27-2004, 10:27
Tried the S&B thru my brothers S&W in 357Sig. Result 3 out of 6 DID NOT FIRE. I now have 975+ rounds of this junk;6

7677
11-27-2004, 10:34
k.d.lambeth,
I would contact S&B and see what they have to say?

Teddybear
11-29-2004, 09:07
7677,
Did just that today (29 nov 04) Will post as to what the say/do or don't say/do. By the way the lot number is 41-9
:steamed:

Teddybear
12-10-2004, 12:30
10 Dec 2004,
ABSOLUTLY NO CONTACT FROM SELLIER & BELLOT :steamed: ^2

Texas Tea
12-12-2004, 22:10
Well, I went to the range Sunday (12/12) with my Mod. 31. I shot two boxes of S&B, one each of lot numbers 43-12 and 43-17. The pistol functioned with Glock Perfection. No problems whatsoever. My Mod. 31 has all factory stock parts.

scheirere
12-15-2004, 11:59
CZ model 100 with a Barsto .357 barrel installed: 0 shots from 20 rounds. Not one round lit, even after a second strike. (The CZ 100 has a DAO trigger with an internalstriker, allowing a second strike capability.) I added some preload to the striker spring (as much as possible) and it fired 1 round in 5. Stopped at this point as I didn't want to ruin anymore rounds in case someone else had a gun that could shoot it. I'll edit the post later when I get the ammo's lot number....

The gun does have trouble with other brands of .357 sig ammo, But nothing like this. With the .40 barrel in stalled, it runs everything I put in it.....and I've sampled just about every brand.

scheirere
12-15-2004, 12:05
Double post!

Texas Tea
12-15-2004, 15:31
I'm beginning to wonder if the trouble is that S&B is made for tight chambers. In other words, since the round headspaces on the shoulder of the case, maybe unless the chamber is tight, the round is being forced too far forward so that the firing pin (or striker) is not being allow to punch deep enough. That coupled with hard primers might cause the problems noted.

My Mod. 31 seems to handle the S&B stuff pretty well (one (1) possible failure to fire in 700+ rounds). It was made in 1995 (it has a first generation type frame). The primers are probably a bit hard, but I'll bet it has more to do with chamber dimensions. Maybe Glock opened the chamber up a bit in its later .357 Sigs?

Now I'm not saying that Glock is making barrels that are out of spec. Rather, I'm saying it may be that Glock is making chambers on the loose end of spec while S&B is making its ammo on the tight end of spec. That may explain why the ammo works fine in some Glocks and not in others. Perhaps the Glocks in which the ammo works have chambers on the tight end of spec.

So, what do you think?

Evil Earl
12-21-2004, 16:05
for $2.50 you can get a Extra Power Firing Pin Springs. from Glockmeister that's what i'm getting orderd last week. will be in the 27 that. way i feel in my primary carry Weapon.357 sig it will give me a lesser chance of a miss fire.

Teddybear
12-27-2004, 06:40
27 Dec 04
No word from Sellier & Bellot. Going to send second e-mail:steamed: :steamed:

Mortech
01-28-2005, 22:49
Out of a box of 50 I had 7 misfires all but 2 of those needed 3 stikes to fire in my M357 , the oly thing on the box I can find t hat looks like a Lot Number is a 31*1 stamped in side of the end of one box .

Texas Tea
02-27-2005, 12:04
Since Christmas '04, I have fired four more boxes of S&B .357 Sig. in my Glock 31...2 boxes of lot 29-9, one box of 43-17 and one box of 44-10. No problems at all. Every round fired first time, every time.

Although I've never really had a problem in over 700 rounds of S&B fired, I went ahead and changed the striker spring to a Glockmeister extra power right around Christmas. I pulled the bullets on a few rounds of S&B and popped the primers with the regular spring and the extra power. Upon examination with an eight power glass, I could see that although the regular spring made a good strike on the primers, the extra power obviously struck harder. So, I figured since I had a three pack of these I ordered from Glockmeister during summer last year, I would leave one in the Mod. 31.

I've also shot 3 boxes of Lawman ammo since Christmas...it's very good ammo, indeed.

konrado
04-05-2005, 08:24
I have had primer problems with S&B 357. I was using my G24 with a 357 Bar Sto barrel this weekend. (I think there were several with my G33 also). I had numerous failure to fire primers. I would put them back in the gun and they would fire. Glad to hear this is a common problem. Thought my guns had a problem.
Konrado

Mortech
04-05-2005, 18:48
Lawman is pretty good stuff and its about the only stuff I can get regularly around here locally .

Texas Tea
04-05-2005, 20:58
Yeah, that's what I'm changing over to...Lawman ammo.

I still have around 10 boxes of S&B and I've never really had a problem with it, but I really like the Lawman ammo.

konrado
04-06-2005, 08:18
I also used some PMC 357 sig. ammo and it worked fine.

Konrado

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armed&well
05-22-2005, 10:04
Out of all stock G31 I got 1 dud out of 50. Went off the second time.

cabal_88
06-25-2005, 13:03
I had 10 rounds fail out of a box of 50. I had purchased 2 boxes at the range, but I promptly returned the second box and exchanged it for Speers.

This is the only ammo my G31 has ever had an issue with. My only other failure to fire was a single WWB round.

Teddybear
07-22-2005, 16:27
;2 AFTER NUMEROUS EMAILS, FAXES, AND MESSAGES LEFT ON ANSWERING MACHINES, S&B, AS OF THIS DATE, (07/22/05) HAS NOT MADE ANY TYPE OF CONTACT WITH ME IN REF. TO THE PROBLEM I HAVE WITH THEIR 357 SIG AMMO.:steamed:

graveman
12-26-2005, 15:20
I would stay away from S&B ammo. I had serious trouble with it about a year ago in 7.62x25 and the brass was so soft the TT-33 extractor would chew up chunks out of it. Of course, I called, gave lot number and "they will look into it". Apparently didn't learn the lesson so I wasted 15 bucks on a 50 round box of 357 Sig 140 gr. I had 3 FTF's and 2 FTE's out of my stock G33. It was also super-filthy. Never again.

64ti
03-17-2006, 18:21
last weekend with my new 226 in 357 Sig I bought from CDNN in great condition and ran through 2 boxes, 100 rds without the first misfire and my ammo was 2002 purchase before my all expense govt paid vacation to Afghanistan. I ended up working 12 hours a day for 10 months but did not have to pay for the plane ticket. Shoots good to me. Roy

startsparKing
06-24-2006, 23:04
I never really saw this sticky till the other day When I got some S&B from a guy locally for $11 a box. I figured I cant go wrong. Then I read all these stories so I was figured I would have some problems at the range. Sure enough the averge was abot 1 out of 10 didnt go off but still didnt ruin my day.. After looking at the rage ammo prices Id probably buy more for 10 or 11 dollars a box.. The range had S&B 9mm for $11.96 :shocked:

If the price it right I'd say use it, but DON'T trust it.

quantico
08-21-2006, 08:45
I am glad I saw this post... I am running out of blazer in 357 that I stockpiled several years ago... Blazer had issues with setback that raised chamber pressure a bunch and destroyed a lot of guns, but it worked perfectly for me..

I think I purchased 5000 rounds of red box american eagle / federal ammo and that is also about gone... so I am looking for a good deal on 5000- 10000 rounds of 357 to keep on hand.

I don't shoot 357 sig in competition any more, so a few thousand rounds currently will last me several years instead of several months.... like it used to.

Anyone have some suggestions ???? I am looking for a plinking round, not self defense.

Texas Tea
08-21-2006, 09:24
Well, I'm really high on Speer Lawman ammo. I find it to be the best general shooting ammo around. American Eagle has always worked well for me, too.

FWIW

Texas Tea
10-22-2006, 20:48
Well, this afternoon I fired another box of S&B .357 Sig in my G31 with no problems whatsoever (I've had a Glockmeister extra power striker spring in the G31 since Christmas '04). FWIW

shu
12-01-2006, 06:13
I'll go with what Texas Tea said. I have a G-31 but do not shoot it much. When I do, it's either S&B or handloads. Have not noticed a fail-to-fire problem.

However, presuming that the problem exists and that:
..it is unlikely S&B would use different primers for 357sig;
..the problem is reported in different makes of gun;
..the problem is not shared by other calibers;
as i was reading thru the thread it occurred to me that the salient commonality is the bottleneck shape.

Speer #13 reloading manual contains the following paragraph, which has been a puzzlement to me:

"This cartridge headspaces on the case mouth, not the shoulder. Check case length often when firing full-power loads and trim if necessary."

Why would the 357sig headspace on the case mouth when bottleneck cartridges conventionally headspace on the shoulder?

The RCBS seating/crimp die seems to have a roll crimp rather than taper crimp. Why so, if indeed the 357sig headspaces on the case mouth?

Common wisdom is that bottleneck cartridges which headspace on the shoulder lengthen with repeated use, and may need trimming; straight wall cases which headspace on the case mouth shorten with repeated use and do not need trimming. This does not square with the statement from the Speer book.

guinnessdog
02-21-2007, 11:19
I had the same problems with the S&B stuff in my 32, would sometimes get 3 or 4 misfires per mag. I installed a Wolff extra strength striker spring and that seemed to help some, but did not eliminate the problem.

Bought a SIG 226 about a month ago, in about 500 rounds (burning up my remaining supply of the S&B crap) I have not had a single failure to fire. Maybe it's a tighter chamber, maybe harder firing pin hits, I don't know.

The S&B stuff does leave a lot of unburned powder (or some such debris) in the gun.

The SIG has been 100% reliable, by the way.

armed&well
04-19-2007, 03:20
Has anybody used S&B .357 sig brass for reloading?
I'm thinking that for misfires there could be two reasons:
1. hard primer
2. brass out of spec
So if you did any reloading with S&B brass and had no problems it's probably only primer issue (primers to hard or not tall enough).

kraigster414
05-23-2007, 17:43
S&B is renown for hard primers regardless of caliber. I never use it anymore for that reason. Way too many light strikes with it.

NitLion
05-24-2007, 04:27
Originally posted by guinnessdog
Bought a SIG 226 about a month ago, in about 500 rounds (burning up my remaining supply of the S&B crap) I have not had a single failure to fire. Maybe it's a tighter chamber, maybe harder firing pin hits, I don't know.

The S&B stuff does leave a lot of unburned powder (or some such debris) in the gun.

The SIG has been 100% reliable, by the way.

My P229 has also been 100% reliable and I haven't tried it with my G31 yet.......

kidcoltoutlaw
07-24-2007, 13:46
Is it fit to reload ?

unit1069
04-10-2008, 22:31
I've only shot one box of S&B through my G-32. Not a single problem.

rdking3
10-14-2008, 07:44
I think you hit the nail on the head Clem.

After reading and thinking about it for some time now, I really think the .357 SIG is about the best autoloading pistol cartridge in the world. It's got high velocity and penetration in a small package with relatively modest recoil.

To quote a local gun shop owner referring to .357 SIG.... "It's a REAL SCREAMER!"

free1486
10-20-2008, 15:41
I've had quite a few misfires with my Glock 32 using S&B ammo. I have also had some with, if I remember correctly, Winchester white box.
I have noted that the primer strikes seem definitely lighter on the duds. I am changing my recoil spring out just in case there is a problem there. I have an internal Lasermax. Perhaps the slid is not going into battery completely when these strikes occur.

armed&well
04-12-2009, 14:24
Is it fit to reload ?

I'm in testing mode (G31)at the moment. I have reloaded 1000 pieces of once fired range pick-ups for the third time and it looks O.K.
But for the final word more testing is called for.

daneluta
02-27-2010, 03:16
G31, 100 rounds, no misfire at all!

armed&well
02-28-2010, 06:15
I'm in testing mode (G31)at the moment. I have reloaded 1000 pieces of once fired range pick-ups for the third time and it looks O.K.
But for the final word more testing is called for.

I'm 8-10x cycle at the moment. I still menage to recover aprox. 750 pieces. It looks that I'm go to go for additional 5-10 cycles. I generaly load at 9 mm Luger level.

jimmy
05-16-2010, 03:14
Tried S&B .357 SIG in two G32's and had failures to fire in both of them. Click, no bang. The cartridges fired the second try. No more S&B .357 for me unless maybe I get a SIG to shoot it in.

jjmoberg
07-02-2010, 18:33
When I bought my G31 new in 2002 I had 30 misfires out of 300 rounds with the S&B. I have had 0 misfires since with all sorts of Remington, Winchester, Hornady, and Double Tap

JimIsland
01-11-2012, 10:46
Figured I would bump this up with an update. Since i have been a big fan of S&B 9mm I thought I would try their 357 Sig. I have put 200 rounds of it through my G33 without a single glitch and it's pretty damn snappy. I'll keep shooting it and post up after another 500 rounds or so.

clarkstoncz
04-08-2012, 15:42
Any updates? I wish I could buy some locally and give it a try.

I do like the S&B 9mm, but can only find it at the Cabela's in Post Falls.

JimIsland
07-11-2012, 14:44
Not sure that I've put another 500 down range but probably an honest 300 without a hitch. I added a G31 to the mix as well and it seems to eat everything.

Ben B
07-12-2012, 08:43
I have shot 200 rounds through my gen 4 g32 with no problems to date.

CR500
07-12-2012, 09:06
this makes me nervous to buy S&B in .357 sig. a local shop is selling 1000 rounds for like $105 + tax...

CR500
07-13-2012, 22:40
this makes me nervous to buy S&B in .357 sig. a local shop is selling 1000 rounds for like $105 + tax...

Oops. 500 rounds for $105+ tax. My mistake! (still a really good deal though!)

Trader
07-27-2012, 14:18
I shot S&B .357 today from my GL23 with LWD barrel, no issues. S&B may be using softer primers since this thread was
started in 2004.

cowboy1964
07-27-2012, 14:40
I've never had an issue with S&B but I primarily use 9mm. Don't think I've used tried S&B in .357 Sig. If I do I'll remember this.

NitLion
07-28-2012, 18:07
I shot S&B .357 today from my GL23 with LWD barrel, no issues. S&B may be using softer primers since this thread was
started in 2004.

Finally ran a box thru my G31....no issues! Maybe we should change the thread to Prvi Partizan. I ran a box of that thru my M&P and had seven failures to fire. I loaded those seven into my G31 and most went off on second stike...but not all....

ds7br
08-09-2012, 12:32
Just finished my 8th box thru my G31; no problems. All boxes purchased within the last 90 days I am running a 19# recoil spring.
Dennis

seed
11-24-2013, 18:26
Finally ran a box thru my G31....no issues! Maybe we should change the thread to Prvi Partizan. I ran a box of that thru my M&P and had seven failures to fire. I loaded those seven into my G31 and most went off on second stike...but not all....

Old thread, I know...but I "(did) a search" and so here I am. My question is if anyone has any more recent experience with the Prvi Partizan? It seems to be available at a decent price (relatively speaking) everywhere with some bad reviews. Have they fixed the non-fire issue yet?

And while I'm at it, how about recent experience with the S&B, in case it becomes more widely available again?

NitLion
11-24-2013, 18:57
I have never had a problem with the S&B....Prvi? I haven't shot it since. As range ammo... I would get it. Have you tried Wisconsin Cartridge for range ammo? I like it!
http://www.wisconsincartridge.com/productcart/pc/viewPrd.asp?idproduct=183&idcategory=11

seed
11-25-2013, 12:07
Never heard of it! Glad I asked a question on this thread, otherwise I might have never heard of it. Thanks for the heads up.

Btw, what is their story? I tried to find out more about their company and products from the site, but there was nothing I could find...

NitLion
11-25-2013, 13:41
They have been around a while. They also sell a lot on Gunbroker. Here is one of their auctions if you want to check their feedback:
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=376348671