Open carry anyone? [Archive] - Glock Talk

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jundeleon
07-25-2004, 01:19
Open carry now allowed in one state.

http://www.1911forum.com/forums/showthread.php?p=771070#post771070

What do you think?

doctabako
07-25-2004, 02:00
IIRC there are a number of states in the U.S. which allow open carry. In addition to Virginia, I think Arizona is also one of them. Those guys are in gun-lovers paradise. It may not sit well with some members of the population and does make one feel like you're back in the days of the old west but at least one's right to bear arms and defend one's self is in plain view of everyone(no surprises here) and I'm sure all but the most hardened of criminals would dare commit crimes against a person who they know is armed.:)

edited to add: (Got this from a search)
States who allow open carry, see notes for the meaning of the numbers.

Alabama(1);

Alaska(2);

Arizona;

Arkansas(3);

California(4);

Colorado;

Connecticut(5);

Delaware(2);

Georgia(5);

Hawaii(4);

Idaho;

Indiana(5);

Iowa(5);

Kansas(2);

Kentucky;

Louisiana;

Maine;

Maryland(5);

Massachusetts(5) (possible change after 1998 amendments);

Michigan(1);

Minnesota(5);

Mississippi;

Missouri(2);

Montana;

Nebraska(2);

Nevada(2);

New Hampshire(1);

New Jersey(5);

New Mexico;

North Carolina;

Ohio(2);

Oregon(2);

Pennsylvania(1)--Philadelphia(1,5);

Rhode Island(5);

South Carolina(5);

South Dakota;

Tennessee(5);

Texas(3);

Vermont;

Virginia(2)--Alexandria and some other counties (5);

Washington;

West Virginia;

Wisconsin(6);

Wyoming

Notes:

(1). CCW required for open carry in a vehicle

(2). Additional restrictions may be at a local level

(3). Only allowed when traveling

(4). Only allowed with special permit or license; additional
restrictions may apply

(5). Open carry requires CCW permit

(6). Open carry prohibited in vehicle; permitted on person.

Most federal laws do not distinguish between open and
concealed carry. The one exception is aboard commercial
aircraft. Federal law prohibits carrying a concealed
dangerous weapon aboard an aircraft but not an unconcealed
one. This loophole is closed by FAA Regulations, which
prohibit any carrying of a dangerous weapon whether or not
concealed.

The Lucky ones;f

Alexii
07-25-2004, 04:20
My only gripe with open carry is that it deprives us of the element that determines the outcome of a gunfight-- surprise. Not to mention the fact that those visbly armed will be the first ones to be taken out. It just tips off way too much info to the BGs.

I also read that even if you're open-carry legal in a US state that allows it, all it takes is one phone call from an alarmed citizen to the police and you may be arrested for "disturbing the peace". I don't get the logic too, so don't ask.

;Q

Skyhook
07-25-2004, 04:42
Although for any kind of carrying, I think the open version also brings the business of weapon retention to the fore.. How many CCW persons have had training in retention?

Alexii and I are in agreement on the other issue as well- open carry guys being the first to be targeted..

doctabako
07-25-2004, 05:47
No arguement there, open carry does have some tactical issues but the fact that the people in those states CAN and that their rights aren't infringed if they wanted to do so, makes me think they're quite lucky. :)
As we know, the right or should I say privelege to carry here in the Philippines is always an iffy subject and always subject to the whims of the current powers that be.

attyjpl
07-26-2004, 13:30
Every 13 seconds an American gun owner uses a firearm in defense against a criminal.

i found this alarming info in a gun site and i wonder what our local statisticians will say about this.

of all the laws that we copied from uncle sam, we should have incorporated the u.s constitution's second amendment provision into our phil. constitution. we should also enjoy "the right to keep and bear arms".

open carry? law-abiding people like us should maintain our abilities to protect ourselves and the people we love effectively from anyone who would do them harm through legal, private ownership and use of guns.

:)

kristiansen
07-27-2004, 08:44
attyjpl: hello sir! may I ask a question? since most of us have no ptc and only using ptt,what if there will be a defensive situation when you are on the way to the range(s) and back and you shot the perp,will my shooting him qualify as self-defense? surely I will tell the police that I-took-the gun-from-the glove compartment-and-run-to-the-trunk-and-got-the-mags-and -shoot.thanks man!

jundeleon
07-27-2004, 11:00
If we are allowed to carry guns openly in the streets of Metro Manila, what would you guys bring?

For me, all of the ff:

1. Olympic arms 223 pistolized AR;
2. Pump shotgun
3. Mini Uzi
4. hi-cap 9mm cz 75
5. 44 magnum six shooter
6. good sturdy belt

Di kaya to kulang for everyday open carry?

attyjpl
07-27-2004, 11:08
Originally posted by kristiansen
attyjpl: hello sir! may I ask a question? since most of us have no ptc and only using ptt,what if there will be a defensive situation when you are on the way to the range(s) and back and you shot the perp,will my shooting him qualify as self-defense? surely I will tell the police that I-took-the gun-from-the glove compartment-and-run-to-the-trunk-and-got-the-mags-and -shoot.thanks man!


for your info, i also use a PTT. i wouldn't waste my hard-earned money on a PTC at this juncture. probably next year.

your question is: will your shooting the perp qualify as self-defense? my answer is YES and NO.

self defense is one of the justifying circumstances in our penal code. it is called "justifying" because you will not go to jail even if you kill the perp. however, to qualify your act of killing the perp as self defense, the following circumstances must CONCUR:

1. there must be UNLAWFUL AGGRESSION on the part of the perp (or assailant);

2. REASONABLE NECESSITY of the means employed to prevent or repel the attack/unlawful aggression, and;

3. lack of SUFFICIENT PROVOCATION on the part of the person defending himself.

ALL OF THESE 3 CIRCUMSTANCES MUST BE PRESENT, OTHERWISE, THE PERSON DEFENDING HIMSELF WILL INCUR CRIMINAL LIABILITY FOR HOMICIDE OR MURDER, AS THE CASE MAY BE.

surely I will tell the police that I-took-the gun-from-the glove compartment-and-run-to-the-trunk-and-got-the-mags-and -shoot

by all means, please do so! you're trying to apply the conditions stated in the PTT, huh? do that and let your lawyer fix your mess. the bottomline here is, WHO SHOULD BE DEAD, YOU OR THE PERP? shoot him first, and think later. this is what i said to a former client to console his guilt feelings. sabi ko sa kanya, "mas mabuti na ikaw ang buhay at sya ang patay, at least may pagkakataon ka na ipagtanggol ang sarili mo sa hukuman". a practical way of looking at it, right?

whether or not you took your gun from the glove compartment and ran to the trunk and got the mags is only "legal semantics", so to speak. in court, what matters is EVIDENCE, not what the litigants say. you have your version of the incident, and your opponents will have their's. your fate depends on your lawyer. your fate depends on how "well" your lawyer argues your case in court.

i can go on explaining this, but many legal things are better left heard than read, especially in a public forum like this.

oh, and by the way, if you find yourself in that situation, make sure the perp is dead -- to save on medical expenses. ;f

9MX
07-27-2004, 11:20
Originally posted by attyjpl
....oh, and by the way, if you find yourself in that situation, make sure the perp is dead -- to save on medical expenses. ;f

korek ka diyan atty!

kristiansen,

i don't think we should lie about "running to the trunk..." as stated by attyjpl b4 on another thread iirc:

the most that they can cite you for keeping the gun loaded in your glove compartment is a violation on the PTT guidelines which is not against the law. your permit can be revoked though...so what? you're in the philippines ;f

you can't be charged with illegal possession of FA because you have a license to possess;z

However, if you use your gun for any unlawful purpose, your license gets revoked and the illegal use of firearm will be used against you. but still (parang chinese movie line ito aH;f ), you won't get charged wit illegal possession but rather with the illegal activity that you did.

tama ba atty? this is how i understood atty. topacio's book on firearms

attyjpl
07-27-2004, 11:45
Originally posted by 9MX
korek ka diyan atty!

kristiansen,

i don't think we should lie about "running to the trunk..." as stated by attyjpl b4 on another thread iirc:

it's not a question of who lied and who told the truth because even if you're telling the gospel truth, what matters to the judge is WHOSE STORY IS BELIEVABLE. i'm sure all of you BOGs have seen films and movies where the good guy ends up in jail, rather than the BG. sa totoong buhay, ganyan din ang nangyayari. wag kayo mag-ilusyon na ang kabutihan ay parating nananaig sa kasamaan.

the most that they can cite you for keeping the gun loaded in your glove compartment is a violation on the PTT guidelines which is not against the law. your permit can be revoked though...so what? you're in the philippines ;f

it may not be against the LAW but it is against the GUIDELINES. there is a world of difference between a LAW and a GUIDELINE. the former is legislative in character while the latter is executive/administrative in nature. the former is passed by congress while the latter is promulgated by the president and all her subordinates down the executive line.

you can't be charged with illegal possession of FA because you have a license to possess;z

However, if you use your gun for any unlawful purpose, your license gets revoked and the illegal use of firearm will be used against you. but still (parang chinese movie line ito aH;f ), you won't get charged wit illegal possession but rather with the illegal activity that you did.

tama ba atty? this is how i understood atty. topacio's book on firearms

correct pareng 9mx. your firearm will also be confiscated.
:)

attyjpl
07-27-2004, 12:35
Originally posted by jundeleon
If we are allowed to carry guns openly in the streets of Metro Manila, what would you guys bring?

For me, all of the ff:

1. Olympic arms 223 pistolized AR;
2. Pump shotgun
3. Mini Uzi
4. hi-cap 9mm cz 75
5. 44 magnum six shooter
6. good sturdy belt

Di kaya to kulang for everyday open carry?


brod, wag mo kalimutan magdala ng tirador just in case maubusan ka ng bala ;z

kristiansen
07-28-2004, 08:03
many thanks attyjpl! very enlightening indeed! it will surely help in preparing defensively.
counselor 9mx: thanks man! pwede pahiram ng libro?:) now,where did I put my gun case.....

9MX
07-28-2004, 08:17
Originally posted by attyjpl
correct pareng 9mx. your firearm will also be confiscated.
:)

kc hindi jaworski ang surname ko ;f

kristiansen,

no prob. just remind me to bring it sa next non-shoot/o kaya sa shoot meet