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nhglocker
08-07-2004, 15:42
Here's a question for you dog lovers. Which breed is best at alerting it's sleeping owner about attempted break ins. Not asking about trained attack dogs or the like just something to buy an extra minute or two when something aint quite right in the middle of the night. This would be in addition to being a good companion of course.

Bill73
08-07-2004, 18:32
Our German Shepherd alerts us to the door bell, turning of the knob. Her hearing is amazing. I assume she would go bananas with the breaking of glass, etc. She is a very curious dog but is friendly to all humans we greet. I don't know what she would do if either of us were abused, I can only hope.

protozo1
08-07-2004, 18:39
Great Danes. Mine bark when they hear something out of sorts. It's a big booming heavy bark and most people that come to the door step back up 2 or 3 steps just when they hear the bark. They back up more when the dogs come to the door and are eye to eye with them. As companions you couldn't ask for more loyal loving dogs. But being a large breed the vet bills are higher and transport and general care requires a bigger vehicle and more time. I would do some heavy research in any breed you select so you get one that fits you best.

pesticidal
08-07-2004, 18:42
I have a Cairn Terrier that not much gets by. She'll even start a bark a split second before I hear the phone ring. Not a big dog in size, but she's the first one out to see what's going on.

MrsKitty
08-07-2004, 19:51
A small yippy dog is a good choice too. Any flavor will do. They bark their little heads off and unlike a big dog, most can't be distracted by a steak or treats ;)

Wulfenite
08-07-2004, 19:54
Most any terrier.

Dandapani
08-07-2004, 20:03
My pack of small dogs do a pretty good job of alerting: toy poodle, minature poodle, and Yorkshire terrier. In training is our standard poodle pup bred out of royal poodle stock (extra large!) who should end up northward of eighty pounds. The little dogs are training him to alert to sounds. Won't be long and he'll have a big bark and a big bite!

Berto
08-07-2004, 20:04
I really can't say...seems like all dogs can do the job pretty well.:)
Allie perks up if anyone comes up the stairs....she goes to the door and listens,if the person stops in front my door,she alerts.Her hearing amazes me;she recognizes the the difference between me hitting keys and shutting off the monitor-and comes into the room when she thinks I'm done ;f
She knows the sound of my truck,jeep and roomate's car when we get home from work,hauls ass onto the deck,then the door,back and forth.
It's great.

nhglocker
08-08-2004, 16:41
Originally posted by misskitty5077
A small yippy dog is a good choice too. Any flavor will do. They bark their little heads off and unlike a big dog, most can't be distracted by a steak or treats ;)

One of the reasons I ask about particular breeds is that from what I understand of dogs different breeds are better suited for different tasks (hunting, guarding, competitions, etc.) I remember growing up my family had a yippy little dog who would bark incessently when friends&family came to the door but would scurry under the couch when a stranger showed up. :)

Funny little dog but not much good for an intruder alert.

Spen84107
08-08-2004, 23:21
I vote for German Shepard. I've heard good things about the Belgian Malinois breed as well. Very alert and protective of family.

Here's some information on them.
http://www.puppydogweb.com/caninebreeds/belmalinois.htm

Watch-dog: Very High
Guard-dog: Very High, will protect their family and property, but will not attack unwarranted

German Shepard:
Watch-dog: Very High
Guard-dog: Very High
http://www.puppydogweb.com/caninebreeds/grmanshpd.htm

Both are very obedient and very loyal. I have a malamute/german shepard mix that is excellent. He has the best of both breeds.

noway
08-10-2004, 08:55
I agreed with the small dogs being good dedicated watch dogs. A pomerian makes agood intruder alarm.

Goldendog Redux
08-11-2004, 20:51
She only barks when needed. It is a pretty fierce bark too. She won't atttack. She barks so I can.

MF

MrsKitty
08-11-2004, 22:14
Goldendog, That is a great photo ;a

Goldendog Redux
08-11-2004, 22:33
She is obviously teaching the kittens the finer points of napping. To stay on the topic of the thread, she will awaken and alert us of anything unusual. Since she is not a barker, she always gets praise when she barks in the house.

MF

fastvfr
08-12-2004, 00:21
From what I have seen, any dog that weighs under 5# will do nicely.

%@#$ ankle-biters.....$#&@%.

mpol777
08-12-2004, 10:52
http://www.reloadpress.com/images/dogs/sid_chair_sm.jpg

Here's our alarm. Being only 5 pounds he's got no problem calling for backup. A couple yips and the rest of the herd comes running. He doesn't bark too often, so when he does there's a reason.

FThorn
08-12-2004, 11:23
I wonder what breed smells the least. And, I'd wonder this from the view of people that VISIT the dog owners; since the owners themselves have probably gotten used to the smells in their own house.

mpol777
08-12-2004, 11:40
I'll bet small breeds end up smelling better. Ever try giving a 70lb dog a bath? We've got two that size and I've taken to filling up the kiddie pool in the backyard rather than flood the bathroom. On the other hand I can dunk my chihuahuas in the sink and all I get is a concerned look.

What I'm getting at is that small dogs are easier to bathe, thus get baths more often. They also don't leave giant landmines in the backyard like larger dogs. Less in, less out. ;f

G20man32904
08-12-2004, 11:57
nhglocker,
Pick the breed that best suits your lifestyle or better yet adopt a dog from the local pound.
The question you are asking is more a product of good training than breed charcteristics. Hope this helps


FThorn,
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v435/g20man/trolling.jpg
;f

FThorn
08-12-2004, 16:05
Originally posted by G20man32904
nhglocker,
Pick the breed that best suits your lifestyle or better yet adopt a dog from the local pound.
The question you are asking is more a product of good training than breed charcteristics. Hope this helps


FThorn,
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v435/g20man/trolling.jpg
;f


Hey, I don't fish.

(but I do like to poke fun at some topics)

But really, I don't want a dog that stinks us up and nobody tells us. Plus, I've developed this unhealthy fear about bringing disease/dirt/etc into the house. So, I'm struggling with what breed to get.

I grew up with tons of animals. But, I've changed since then.

Okay, any breed better/worse around loud noises - ie Gunshots in self defense? Has a police dog ever been known to lose it and turn on his master during a ruckus or gunfight? Or, not be able to be healed if attacking a BG?

G20man32904
08-12-2004, 17:35
FT,
I hear ya ;)
Let me try to get you some answers.
As far as smell, well that comes from things like brands of food, type of shampoo used, how often, etc. Bottom line, feed good quality food, (I tell people, "if you can buy it in a grocery store, you can do better"). Shampoo's same thing, stay away from Hartz, stick with middle of the road type products from a pet store and nothing too harsh. What I use, I can bathe my dog weekly and it wont hurt him. Some of the stronger shampoos you can't do that and will cause itching and flaking of the skin. I would also stick with a short hair breed or any breed that has to get groomed (clipped). Schnauzers, Cockapoo's, Poodle's, Jack Russell's, etc.

any breed better/worse around loud noises
Ok I know I will get flamed for this, (but that's ok) but here goes.
Look for a stable dog. While looking at puppies drop some keys around them and if goes ok, work up to louder noises from a distance going up to a portable type boat horn at say 40 ft. What you are looking for is a non-reaction. Not necessarily disinterest but not running away cowering with tail embedded in its stomach and not aggressive. Somewhere in the middle.
Here is the where the flames will come. Dogs do not "turn" on their masters ever. This is my professional opinion backed up by actual experience working with dogs and owners. Aggressive dogs push their Alpha to see who is in charge and to see if they can "win" some dominance. If they do "win" AND the owner tries to get the dog to do something that they donít want to do, the dog will usually give a warning snap or bite. However in my experience the dog has given many clues before this incident happens.

Has a police dog ever been known to lose it and turn on his master during a ruckus or gunfight?
I am sure this has happened somewhere at sometime, but I seriously would not worry about it.
These working dogs spend the first 2 years of their lives learning their jobs and most perform flawlessly. If you are thinking about getting a "high speed" type of working dog, then you too will have hundreds of hours of training ahead of you and will learn how to handle your dog in all kinds of scenerios.
Or, not be able to be healed if attacking a BG?
This is referred to as the "out" command. In professional type "high speed" dogs, working this is a double edged sword. If the out isn't worked enough or properly the dog will not want to out properly. If it is overworked, the dogs willingness to bite will be diminished.
Again this is only the working type dogs from say you local K-9 program. If you are talking about going to your local breeder and picking up a Rott or GSD from a show dog background dont worry about it. Again in my experience, most of these dogs will NOT bite an intruder... (nomex on)
Clients would tell me all the time "oh my dog will protect me if something were to happen". I would say ok lets try it and put the bite suit on and walk into the house unannounced (to the dog) on the next lesson and start yelling and screaming. Bottom line I never had a dog take a serious bite yet. Because that takes training by a professional trainer and time. I would tell most people use your dog as an alarm and teach him that the leave blowing across the yard is not a threat but the guy sneaking around the front door is!! It wont be long before the dog can distinguish someone walking down the sidewalk and someone jiggling your door handle!!
I hope this helps you out and feel free to pm me for more info.
I dont want to hijack this thread anymore than I have...;f

DoubleDog
08-12-2004, 21:23
In my book you can't beat a German Shepherd as being the best all around dog...my dog don't miss a trick...

DD~

nhglocker
08-14-2004, 18:18
G20man,

Sounds like you have some experience, I especially like the key dropping suggestion. Since you brought it up how would one train a dog to distinguish between squirrell in yard vs. stranger at door?

After reading these posts my personal choice would be a german shepard however I will need to get a bigger place first I think. My Grandfather trained this breed back in WW2 and owed his life to one.

Thanks all for the informative responses.

Tvov
08-14-2004, 18:35
Originally posted by DoubleDog
In my book you can't beat a German Shepherd as being the best all around dog...my dog don't miss a trick...

DD~

I'll bet you don't get bothered by strangers much!!


As to good "alarm" dogs, DON'T get a Boxer. Most boxers bark rarely, and usually only when playing. We go camping (at campgrounds) with our 5 year old boxer, Scarlett, a lot. The surrounding campers are usually surprised that we have a dog, because she rarely makes a peep, even when other dogs are walking by or through our campsite.

I agree with others who have said small dogs, especially terriers (sp?).

G20man32904
08-14-2004, 18:37
nh,
good question, and the answer is???
Speak with a professional trainer in your area. Maybe a Schutzhund club or French Ring type trainer and express to them what you want. A GSD is a fine choice but do lots of research before plunking down your hard earned cash!!! Also speak to the trainers about a good dog that maybe has flunked out of the local police department training...
Good luck to you

Bill73
08-15-2004, 13:30
Originally posted by DoubleDog
In my book you can't beat a German Shepherd as being the best all around dog...my dog don't miss a trick...

DD~

Great Dogs! If the wife would consent to it I have two also.

http://pic14.picturetrail.com/VOL524/636041/1968861/62990140.jpg

lm921
08-15-2004, 20:26
Most any dog will do but a Border collie is a great pet and friend. we have a small border collie, a sheltie and a mini poodle. The border collie is the best by far :)

ATL Peach Girl
08-16-2004, 03:53
Originally posted by Goldendog Redux
She only barks when needed. It is a pretty fierce bark too. She won't atttack. She barks so I can.

MF

I can see the abuse going on in all 3 of their faces!!! Look at that!!! ;f ;a ;c ;c

antediluvianist
08-16-2004, 05:31
Dachshund. Very loyal. Hates strangers. Fierce, was bred to fight badgers (twice its weight.) Good barker.

Petra
08-16-2004, 20:21
Let me second the vote for Dachshunds. I've got three that let me know anytime something is going on outside. And lord help the person that comes to the door. They are big dogs in little bodies. The best description that I've heard is that they have Rottweiler engines on a Dachshund chasis. I have 1 standard size doxie and 2 tweenies (somewhere between standard and mini). If you just heard the standard one bark, you would swear that he was a huge dog.

As far as protection goes, may or may not work. Doxies fall into 2 categories. Those that like everybody and those that don't like anyone outside their family. We have 2 that love everyone. Then there's Junior. Junior has issues. We just got him from the SPCA at Christmas. He doesn't like anyone except my wife and I. He feels like he has to protect us for everyone and everything. He went after the neighbors Rottie because it got too close to his "mom." He also nipped a neighbor. Neighbor's fault. We told him that Junior would nip him but he reached down by Jr's mouth anyway. But we're working on him. Like the original poster, I don't look to my dogs for protection. Just to let me know that something is going on.

Mark

jfecteau
08-17-2004, 10:06
nhglocker,

I also agree that is more of a training issue with a dog and not specific to a breed. Pick the breed that you like and fits your lifestyle. A GSD or a Rott would be great as they are highly trainable but if all you want is some barking when someone unknown comes to the door a small dog would work great. I am also in NH and I work with a great trainer for my dogs. He breeds Champion Shutzhund German Shepards and is great with dogs. His name is John Wilkens from Windy Hill Kennels. He is located in Gilmanton which is between Laconia and Concord. Give him a call if you have any questions and he could help you with your decision. Feel free to PM if you have any more questions or need help finding breeders in the area.

Windy Hill Kennels (http://www.whkennelcollege.com)

gsbell
08-17-2004, 21:31
Originally posted by FThorn
I wonder what breed smells the least. And, I'd wonder this from the view of people that VISIT the dog owners; since the owners themselves have probably gotten used to the smells in their own house.

I'm highly allergic to dogs and cats. My own yorkie and a friends yorkie have never given me a bit of "nose" trouble. Neither mine or our friends houses smell like "dog". I know what you are talking about though. My parents will even dog sit at their place for our little guy, they wouldn't if he smelled.
As a bonus he is a barking maniac when people walk by the house let alone up the driveway.

ducati
08-21-2004, 05:59
Jack Russell Terrier. I have 2. The female knows everything that goes on around my house. I know her bark when it is another animal or a person. They also sound so vicious that I don't have problems with the JWs.

OSSI
08-21-2004, 06:22
Originally posted by protozo1
Great Danes. Mine bark when they hear something out of sorts. It's a big booming heavy bark and most people that come to the door step back up 2 or 3 steps just when they hear the bark. They back up more when the dogs come to the door and are eye to eye with them. As companions you couldn't ask for more loyal loving dogs. But being a large breed the vet bills are higher and transport and general care requires a bigger vehicle and more time. I would do some heavy research in any breed you select so you get one that fits you best.

Amen
I have two:) :)

PzGren
08-22-2004, 09:15
German Shepherds are good guard dogs, but they need grooming and be kept busy.

My Doberman is the best guard dog I ever owned but also the most time consuming , aggressive, very loving, and most difficult dog. All in one package.

A Rottweiler is a pretty maintenance-free guard dog. The power of the bite is remarkable, my female could crack coconuts open at 96 lbs. Even my 170lbs male Great Dane could not do that.

As a small guard dog the Standard Schnauzer is unbeatable in my opinion. For an alarm dog a Miniature Schnauzer is also good choice, or the before mentioned Standard Poodle.

Dogbite
08-29-2004, 00:30
I have had 2 rotts,and they are amazing guard/watch dogs.They were both like having radar,a very deep growl and a hurt your ears deep bark.My 2 were females.I talked to a lady once that had a female--someone tried to jimmy the front door--the dog ran and tried to jump through the really thick stain glass door--bent it out--guy ran off.German shepards are also really great dogs--grew up with one--they react alot like rotts--very good guard instinct.A buddy of mine had one--it had bitten 2 people in its life that entered the property--nothing to mess with.It was a large male.

ReAX222
08-29-2004, 00:41
We he was awake, my rott kept everyone away from my house. Sleeping was a different story, but atleast he slept by the front door. If anyone tryed to open it they would have to move him. The most important thing when picking a dog, is get one that will listen.

AlexTheShotgunn
09-02-2004, 23:31
I'll vote for terriers the larger ones (kerry blues,airdales) are very VERY energetic,smaller ones(scotties,westies,carins) are very feirce. My mother has a westie that can take most any dog i've seen includeing my sisters 200lb wolfhound. As far as pure scare factor a male wolfhound is a very scary dog indeed 200+ pounds and a bark and growl that will paralize most people with fear. They were after all used to kill wolves in the middle ages.

loandr.
09-03-2004, 06:04
http://www.glocktalk.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=262825&highlight=boer+boel



feel free to check out my old pic post :-)
Loandr.

scowan007
09-03-2004, 14:41
Boerboels are neeto!

Just got mine!

loandr.
09-03-2004, 14:48
what a beauty!!!!!!Congrat's....whom was the breeder :-) Hold them in your arms while you still can :-) I miss the cradling days....How old ?
Loandr.

scowan007
09-03-2004, 14:52
loandr,

THanks! Stonegate Ignatius (Iggy to you and me) is 9 weeks, 15 lbs. He is from Annette Alexander in NC. Believe one of the parents was from M. Proffer. I need to go back and check my notes.

Where are your beauties from (I checked your other thread and saw the pics)?

Glockinhand
09-03-2004, 14:53
go for a small dog that has lots of energy. some small dogs just mope around and woof at strange noises. a small dog like a jack russell or terrier will yap their heads off at strange sounds. my chiapom is getting old and doesn't "explode" at strange sounds much anymore. gotta get a new one.

loandr.
09-03-2004, 14:58
Dan Huffman from Crystal River...BUT do to health reason on Dans part he is no longer breeding. He is a "Blackwell" student :-) and I know YOU know whom that is :-) How cute. Nandi and Shaka Zulu were the rents, The amazing thing isa if raised by hand ( we got ours at 8 wk....or a bit less :-) the are the most gentle creatures :-) Best of luck and take us up on that "PM" you'll need the advise trust me its a handful :-)
Loandr.
Loandr.

loandr.
09-03-2004, 15:00
My kids "ROAR" ....not bark :-)....Loandr.

cgilbert
09-03-2004, 15:06
jefecteau, I love your avatar! But now that you have your own Rottie, time to put her up on it.

nhglocker, my preference would be a Rottie. I had one that was fantastic. I invested some time and $ along the way with John @ Windy Hills, which you would want to do anyways especially if you got a "high speed dog", albeit a Rottie or Shephard. John's really into the Shephards.

Anyways, you can take a dog just about as far as you want to. My girl was specifically trained to go to the door anytime that anyone came to it. (that was just part of her training) I always felt my wife and daughters were safe when I wasn't home. Imagine being greated by a 90 lb Rotweiller. She wouldn't bark unless the situation warranted. She was docile and great with the kids, but when I "turned her on" she was pure business. I have no doubt she'd die taking care of me or my family.

Anyways, however you decide to go, good luck to you. Even a mutt that has some level of intelligence could provide for you. I do recommend some professional training, even if only from the obedience side of things.

nhglocker
09-05-2004, 18:35
Thanks all for the responses
Some great pics of handsome animals too!

Anyway I think I will probably lean towards getting a German Shepard now. Anybody know how much a healthy pup would go for?

Again, thanks everyone for the posts.

cgilbert
09-06-2004, 06:36
It's always best to do your research on breeders in the area. Ask around different breeders, vets, trainers. Stay away from the pet stores and puppy mills. Give John a call, I know he'd be receptive to answering any questions you may have.

scowan007
09-06-2004, 08:46
I know there are some German Shepherd experts here who can speak more knowledgeably about this, but I have read a lot of complaints from GSD people that the AKC has ruined the breed and turned a good working dog into a useless show dog. Apparently it is tough to find GSDs in the states that are "true" to the breed. I hope the experts see this and chime in!

jerryd
09-06-2004, 18:02
Jack Russell Terrier! My 14lb has no fear!!! the bigger the dog the faster she goes after it, she lets me know when the leafs are falling,birds in the back yard. also HD motorcycles,must be th tone of the engine!!

ede
09-17-2004, 06:17
not sure it'd work out for most people but you can't beat a pet goose for an alert system

JasoninPrescott
09-20-2004, 20:22
When I used to live in Phoenix I had pet geese,ducks,chickens, turkeys. Two of my geese just died by coyote. My dog is a Walker coonhound, he lets me know when anything isn't right, plus that bawl is unmistakable. Plus if I chase a burglar out of my house I can tree him too. :cool:

loandr.
09-20-2004, 20:32
While a "Boer Boel" is ideal .......I guess an "EMU" in spiked collar ...........would do the trick ;a
Loandr.:cool:

MrsKitty
09-20-2004, 21:00
Originally posted by JasoninPrescott
When I used to live in Phoenix I had pet geese,ducks,chickens, turkeys.

My aunt has a florist. One year I was running roses on Valentine's Day. Picture this: paraniod me who always locks the car doors as soon as I get out, several teddy bears in the crook of one arm, dozen roses in that hand, and the other hand full of a large vase. I walk halfway across the yard to be greeted by a very unfriendly turkey ;P

The man who lived there was at the kitchen sink eating a tomato sandwich. He reaches over and knocks on the window, motioning me to "come on." I freeze...until he calls the turkey off me in what seemed like two hours later :(

loandr.
09-21-2004, 06:00
Sounds like "Turkey" sandwiches ..."waiting to happen" :-)
Glad you made it through safely!
Loandr.

Jaegergirl
09-23-2004, 15:35
i have a rottweiler (2 year old male) and we joke that if someone tried to break in, he'd lick them as opposed to bite them and would lead the intruders to the valuables. he rarely ever barks. if anything, his looks are intimidating enough. i'd be curious what he'd do in a threatening situation but you know what, i don't really care to find out. ;)

my sister's obnoxious JRT barks at everything so he's a better alarmist than my dog.

ede
09-26-2004, 09:11
jeagergirl my rottweiler is the same way, licks way more than barks. only time she does bark is when my son is here and flips on his siren and he only does that to get her fired up. i have wireless instent fence for my dogs. my trash is picked up at the house insted of the street like most people have. anyway i put the trash about 10 feet past the boundrey (since it varies a bit being wireless). when the trash gets picked up my two dogs go to near their limit, rotweiller sits and wags her tail and the shepard lab mix barks and acts mean. guess if i were a thief i'd by pass my house with the dogs and all but i'm not sure they do anything. i do beleive they'd defend me if i were attacked, but then again if i were attacked there's a good chance someone would be getting shot.

noway
09-27-2004, 11:46
{work out for most people but you can't beat a pet goose for an alert system}

that's so true. In the olden bibical days they used geese and ducks for intruder alerts. The pharoahs needed a quick alerting system for people trying to assignated them. Geese was the #1 pick for that job.

GSD17
09-28-2004, 00:54
Originally posted by scowan007
I know there are some German Shepherd experts here who can speak more knowledgeably about this, but I have read a lot of complaints from GSD people that the AKC has ruined the breed and turned a good working dog into a useless show dog. Apparently it is tough to find GSDs in the states that are "true" to the breed. I hope the experts see this and chime in!



There are different types of GSDs, the showline is what people are referring to that the AKC is all about, there is still a working line, trust me :)

thinkfast
09-29-2004, 12:08
Any working dog mixed breed should have the instincts to protect territory and alert to strange noises.

Something along the lines of a German Sheperd/Collie mix would probably be a good fit.

As a plus, you get the Mutt Advantage of possibly hundreds of bloodlines of resistance to disease instead of a purebred's two bloodlines.

Heck, they're about 25-50 bucks, and most shelters issues coupons for STEEP discounts on 1st year shots.

Going the purebred route? Belgian Shepherds are great-they have a similar mentality to the GSD, but only have two distinct shedding seasons, instead of 365 days/year!

Belgians are seen in Europe performing police functions we're used to seeing GSD's do here. Smart, loyal breed.

bethann
09-29-2004, 15:15
Originally posted by scowan007
but I have read a lot of complaints from GSD people that the AKC has ruined the breed and turned a good working dog into a useless show dog. Apparently it is tough to find GSDs in the states that are "true" to the breed. I hope the experts see this and chime in!

All you have to do is to ask questions from breeders. There are American show lines that are bred for conformation shows, and there are German bred dogs, both working and show lines. In Germany even the show dogs must have a working title and pass a temperament test in order to be bred. The working dogs are sometimes very high drive and too much dog for the average person unless you take the time to work with the dog.
There will always be fighting between the working lines and the american show lines. The working people say that the american dog has been ruined and can no longer work. They also say that all american bred dogs have bad hips and bad temperaments. I have owned both and that used to be true but not anymore. The american breeders have made so much progress in the past 10 years or so as far as improving the hip status, temperaments, working ability, etc. 15 years ago when I had a couple of import GSD's and worked them in Schutzhund, I said that I would never own an American bred GSD. Now, I think differently. As far as a dog for competition or police work I do think that the German dog is the better dog, but for a pet that only needs to "bark" and give a warning, any GSD from a breeder who shows (either in conformation shows, obedience or shutzhund) would do the job.
Of course, if your dog is of a breed that is known for being defensive, any large breed dog will do. The sheer size of most breeds is enough of a deterant that the dog really doesn't need to do anything more.
But, any small breed can do the same. Burglers dont' want to break into a house that has a dog, period. They want to get in and out without being noticed. Even a toy breed does that job very well.

loandr.
09-29-2004, 20:41
sorry...for "baby" like temperment and "Manson" like properties for coverage a "Boer Boel"...is the ticket 100%...period.
Loandr.

BigDog
09-30-2004, 00:12
Well said, bethann. However, there is a BIG difference between a dog that barks at intruders and a defensive dog (one who will go into a fight to protect you). The later is extraordinarily rare. Not only does a personal protection dog require the right temperament (i.e. fight drive)but it also requires very specialized training. There is NOT a single American-line or -bred dog that will rise to that occasion. This is the reason that the kennels who train PSD's ALWAYS look to European countries like Germany, Belgium, and the Czech Rep. for their working prospects. Schutzhund and PSD/personal protection training is also very different. As bethann said, the true working dogs are well beyond the abilities of most dog-owners and the potential liability is enormous. Your dog should only be considered an alarm. Your Glock has the teeth.

loandr.
09-30-2004, 06:38
Good point. same stands for Africa
Loandr.

Power Pistol Pete
10-01-2004, 22:33
Maybe a good security system and a Glock? I have two fairly aggressive dogs, a Boxer/Pit and a Lab/Mastif. Still, I rely on electronics and a hot Glock! Redundancy is good! ;+

4TS&W
10-01-2004, 22:56
I have a mid sized mutt that has good hearing and is territorially protective. Mom was black and yellow lab, Dad was GSD Rott and Chow. Mostly the lab and gsd show, but the Chow spotted tongue and rott goofiness are definately there.

I got lucky, he was a surprise B-day present.

digitspaw
10-03-2004, 10:26
Wellllllll....another vote for Dachshunds. I have two and they are my trained and certified service animals. I have a hearing impairment and they are very well trained. Attention other Doxie parents: I realize that a "trained Dachshund" is an oxymoron. LOL.
Here's a picture of mine. At least one of them is with me all the time and by federal law can go ANYWHERE I go.;j

Minnie is the Black and Tan and Digit on the right. Hence my online handle "digitspaw".

Petra
10-03-2004, 17:12
They are gorgeous! But you're right, "trained" may not be exactly the right word when talking about Doxies. They have a mind of their own.

Mark

Short Cut
10-03-2004, 17:19
If you live in the country put a few geese on your property. They will hear intruders and sound the alarm before dogs every time. They make enough of a racket when this happens to alert you.

BigDog
10-04-2004, 05:03
See avatar....'nuff said.

smithkid1974
10-05-2004, 16:31
I have to vote for the Dobe. I will put my two against a BG, day or especially at night. I travel frequently for work and although my wife has her CCW, I completely trust the dogs will protect her and the child. They were both tactically trained at Baden in NY. I see no scenario where an intruder gets past both dogs. They are able to "roam" the house at night and during the day.

Interesting link ranking security dogs based on agrressiveness, resistance to counterattack, courage, etc.

http://www.petrix.com/dogsec/topsec.html


Here is one on the front porch.....

BigDog
10-06-2004, 07:14
[QUOTE]Originally posted by smithkid1974
[B]

Interesting link ranking security dogs based on agrressiveness, resistance to counterattack, courage, etc.

http://www.petrix.com/dogsec/topsec.html

;z RRRiiiggghhhttt.....who made that list? Ironic that the two or three breeds most used in police/military K9 didn't even make the top 5. Also ironic that the two breeds most commonly found in Schutzhund/KNPV/French Ring/etc. also are not in the top 5. Rots make an occasional appearance, but they never rise to the level of national or international competition.

That list was made by an armchair dog trainer.

Having said that, I'll still steer clear of smiths' place...

loandr.
10-06-2004, 07:59
Not to mention.....NO BoerBoels?...?? Heck Sometimes when I think of the "Mop and Bucket" Clean up that would be needed after the fact...maybe its a good idea they not be more public :-)(U.S.)
Loandr.

smithkid1974
10-06-2004, 10:03
Agreed...it's just a list and there are many more out there. All rankings, even by professional trainers (or armchair), are still nothing but opinions based on their beliefs and attitudes toward a certain breed. No one will ever be able to give anything more than that, it's like comparing Sigs and Glocks, everyone has an opinion.

I can tell you I have seen the effects of mastiffs first hand. It shows them ranked as #1 and I believe you don't see them in military/patrol jobs due to their size, not their security attributes. A technician who works for one of my managers had his fiance' killed by two in Saginaw last year. He had gone to work on Monday and killed a dear on Sunday. The deer was hanging in the shed overnight and the dogs had begun to take a few bites out of it. She went to the shed to grab something and came between the deer and the dogs. She never made it out of the shed as they ripped her throat and stomach. It was quite horrible as you can imagine.

I live in the Detroit area and feel extremely secure with my dogs. Although they set me back a several grand (including homeowners insurance), I believe it was money well spent. They are the first line of defense and I doubt more would be needed. That puts me more at ease knowing I probably wouldn't have to shoot someone....but you never know as situations like that seldom go as planned.

Having said that......German Sheperds scare the hell out of me (they always seem like their about ready to "pounce" due to their stature) and I have great respect for them.

scowan007
10-06-2004, 10:11
I'm doing everything I can to make sure my dog is properly socialized. I have a Boerboel (African Mastiff, basically), and they are naturally protective. He is 13 weeks and already easily pops tennis balls.

He is very friendly outdoors, actually tends to make submissive gestures when meeting people, but is already starting to "alert" and/or bark at noises while at home.

He gets his last shot on the 18th, and we are starting a puppy class the following week.

smithkid1974
10-06-2004, 11:05
Originally posted by loandr.
Not to mention.....NO BoerBoels?...?? Heck Sometimes when I think of the "Mop and Bucket" Clean up that would be needed after the fact...maybe its a good idea they not be more public :-)(U.S.)
Loandr.


Boerboels are part of the mastiff family (#1 ranking), however the list was comprised of AKC recognized breeds.

BigDog
10-06-2004, 12:19
13 weeeks and he pops tennis balls?!?!?;G

"A technician who works for one of my managers had his fiance' killed by two in Saginaw last year." And that is part of the reason they are not used in PSD or (true) protection work. They were bred specifically to fight, the expense of a reasonable temperament. (I realize there are differences between dogs and that they're not all killers AND I realize that proper socialization will make a difference in every dog (scowan gets a smiley :) ))

As I said in a previous post, the dog's entire temperament is crucial. Dogs who are inappropriately aggressive have NO BUSINESS BEING BRED much less used in protection/PSD. This includes fear-biters!

Another issue that made me lol about that list was the fact that you could click on each of the breeds to get to the AKC's description of them. The AKC has done more to ruin true working-protection dogs than any other organization. Their focus on conformation exclusively has ELIMINATED the working drives from the bloodlines. Again, this is why PSD's ALWAYS come from European lines. Others more educated than me on the subject have stated that there is not a single American-line GSD that will go into a fight for you. (Ed Frawley of Leerburg Kennels;W )

Read these:
http://www.leerburg.com/drives.htm
http://www.leerburg.com/qaprot.htm#fight and scroll down to "Can you define fight drive for me?"

hardeyes
10-06-2004, 14:41
Hello;

Very true Big Dog.

A working family of dogs, NEEDS TO BE SELECTIVELY BREED, And Culled.

More breeds of dogs, have been Destroyed and/or Breed sub-standardly, by Popularity, and those that have a Mis-Understanding of the Breed.

The AKC, Is NOT into Working dogs, and/or Performance dogs.

Selective Breeding- Prey Drive, Temperment, and putting a dog thru the test, Helps Maintain The Breeds Standards.

Skip a dog (generation), and the results are usally a decline in Performance, and Health problems.

Breeding dogs, for Bloodlines, and/or Confirmation, And NOT for Performance, Will do more harm, than good.

One disipine that must be perserved in a breed of dogs, Is to follow the guidlines that have been put in place, for that perticular Breed.

Often tho, Money, & People that do not want to take the time, and do what is right by the dog, Simply skip these Important breed standards.

Breeders of Working/Proformance dogs, breed these dogs, because they have an Understanding of the breed. They are not in to breeding dogs for money, and they Understand what it takes to Maintain the breed.

If a dog doesn't maintain the breeds standard, THEY ARE CULLED FROM THE BREEDING PROGRAM. Period.

A good saying a friend once told me, is this.

"The test of a dog is the Show--The test of a Family is Time".

Hardeyes

MattA
10-06-2004, 19:20
http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_img_a/464721_69_full.jpg
Here's my home alarm. He can hear a mouse fart @ 100 yd and then track him.;f

loandr.
10-06-2004, 19:51
SIR..they pop tennis balls almost from birth ! :-) In a few months he will move on to the bigger thicker balls at petsmart etc. those will work... when mouths widen a bit. SKIP the "Puppy" NYLA-BONES etc PERIOD. and go straight to the "White " hard ones, other wise they will eat them...and not teeth properly. call us dude, wish we had soemone with expeience when we got them! ! :-) and remember greater PSI strength than the american mastiff almost 2x's the sheperard etc, ....but gentle as hell. When at petsmarts they seem to love the attention and the children etc. BUTTTTTT when at home....they rival the "three headed" dog that would guard the gates of "unpleaseant places" :-). Enjoy your little one ...
Loandr.

scowan007
10-06-2004, 19:55
Originally posted by hardeyes
Hello;

Very true Big Dog.

A working family of dogs, NEEDS TO BE SELECTIVELY BREED, And Culled.

More breeds of dogs, have been Destroyed and/or Breed sub-standardly, by Popularity, and those that have a Mis-Understanding of the Breed.

The AKC, Is NOT into Working dogs, and/or Performance dogs.

Selective Breeding- Prey Drive, Temperment, and putting a dog thru the test, Helps Maintain The Breeds Standards.

Skip a dog (generation), and the results are usally a decline in Performance, and Health problems.

Breeding dogs, for Bloodlines, and/or Confirmation, And NOT for Performance, Will do more harm, than good.

One disipine that must be perserved in a breed of dogs, Is to follow the guidlines that have been put in place, for that perticular Breed.

Often tho, Money, & People that do not want to take the time, and do what is right by the dog, Simply skip these Important breed standards.

Breeders of Working/Proformance dogs, breed these dogs, because they have an Understanding of the breed. They are not in to breeding dogs for money, and they Understand what it takes to Maintain the breed.

If a dog doesn't maintain the breeds standard, THEY ARE CULLED FROM THE BREEDING PROGRAM. Period.

A good saying a friend once told me, is this.

"The test of a dog is the Show--The test of a Family is Time".

Hardeyes

That's one of the reasons I went with the Boerboel. They are not recognized by AKC, and there are precious few reputable breeders in the US (and they all seem to know each other). The SABT is the South African group that oversees this breed, and along with conformation (its not "confirmation", by the way), most responsible breeders who breed to SABT standards breed for a calm, confident temperament. I had the good fortune of dealing with a breeder who had both dam and sire onsite, and got to spend a few hours with both. Its no guarantee, but I figure if I do my job, knowing the parents, and knowing what the breeder was looking for in a breeding pair increases my odds greatly of having a quality dog.

PS-hardeyes - when you say culled, you mean spayed/neutered and sold as pet quality; not euthanized, right?

PPS-loandr - oh, you'll be hearing from me!!!:)

loandr.
10-06-2004, 20:33
WHAT HE SAID and then some :-)

Loandr.

loandr.
10-06-2004, 20:35
FYI- SBAT appraiaser's were just here in Orlando and all WENT great!!!!!!!!!!
Loandr.

hardeyes
10-06-2004, 20:44
Hello;

scowan007, Culling- Means removing from the breeding program.

Someways someone might 'cull' a dog, is to spay and/or Neuter them, and then give them away as a pet.

Other times, it did mean, 'Removing' the unsuitable dog.

Some of the reasons, (and remember that all breeders 'cull'), Unstableness, Temperment problems, and just not repersenting the breed standard, and/or Health problems.

Yes, if you expect to maintain a line of performance dogs, then 'Culling' is necesary. Without it the world of performance dogs, would simply revert into dogs that do not maintain the genes and/or desire to work, thus in a few generations, you would get non performance dogs.

Let's face facts, few people are willing to look into, Understand the History (of a certain breed), and then work with that dog, so that it can grow up to be a protection and/or hunting dog.

A line of quality dogs, can be reduced to near-nothingness, if culling is not followed, Only dogs that repersent the breed, and it's history, and can produce like dogs, should be breed, After proving themselfs. This could be protection work, and or hunting/field trials.

Remember all dogs were breed for a purpose, Maintaining that purpose, is what sets breeds apart.

Walter45Auto
10-11-2004, 11:22
Originally posted by FThorn
I wonder what breed smells the least. And, I'd wonder this from the view of people that VISIT the dog owners; since the owners themselves have probably gotten used to the smells in their own house.


I've read that arctic breeds usually don't have the doggy odor.



http://www.dogbreedinfo.com <------You can probably find something about it here.



;g








;8 ;I

W Turner
10-26-2004, 12:18
The best dog I ever had was a GSD/herding mutt mix. Sadly he disappeared about 7 months ago.

The two GSD's that we have now are a study in contrasts...

Sera is smaller (60lbs.) and almost a washed out black and tan in color that we have had for 5.5 years. She is very laid-back, but is an excellent alert dog. She has never been trained to bite and never will be. I don't have a need for this and I really don't think she has the nerves for it anyway. Her biggest problem is her health. She has early hip dysplasia and has severe food alleries to fish, pork and chicken, so we have to use a beef-based food for her. Unfortunately the fish allergy makes it harder to treat the dysplasia because most of the good supplements are fish oil based.

Stoner is larger (75lbs.) and is more in line with the breed standard. He is much darker with rust markings on his legs and face and is even more laid-back than Sera, hence the name..... ;j ;f
He looks like a killer, but is the biggest p***y I have ever seen. Correction doesn't faze him, but he rarely barks at anything. He is only about a year old and has been with us for 4 months. I am hoping he will start to defend his "territory" soon, but just hasn't shown any interest. He is great with young kids though, I have a young cousin who love to wrestle with him and he has been great with absolutely no signs of aggression. His ball drive is excellent, and he is really mouthy, but is a wonderful companion dog. His health is good except for a skin condition that we are working to get resolved. He was a pound dog and we are having to deal with some leftover health issues.

After these two, no more GSD's for me. I love the breed, but the hair is just too much.


Bull