Thanks to Eric and lifting question [Archive] - Glock Talk

PDA

View Full Version : Thanks to Eric and lifting question


.264 magnum
08-18-2004, 11:37
Thanks for a forum Eric! You're the man.


Creatine does not increase my blood pressure.....should I take it again. In the past creatine has given me good results good results.

Finally21
08-18-2004, 12:53
there is nothing wrong with creatine. Go for it.

dgg9
08-18-2004, 13:01
Creatine does make your kidneys work harder, so if you have kidney problems or diabetes, I would skip it. Suspicion of kidney damage in healthy people is speculative and anecdotal; there are no real studies confirming it, AFAIK.

It sounds like the risk is minor for someone otherwise in good health, but that's just a lay opinion.

dgg9
08-18-2004, 13:01
Originally posted by .264 magnum
In the past creatine has given me good results good results.

From the Dept of Redundancy Dept.

feetpiece
08-18-2004, 13:27
I used creatine back in 2000 when I was in Kosovo. I got big quick but didn't any real gains in strength. It took me a long time to shed the water weight so i'm kinda skiddish about using it. It supposedly shortens your recovery time from a heavy work out and it's also supposed to aid in protein synthesis. I'm using several suppliments and I think that once you get your body used to working out it's not really necessary.

dgg9
08-18-2004, 13:46
Creatine is a supplement, not a drug, so no FDA testing. As such, the formulations you buy OTC can vary wildly. As with all supplements, there is a lot of misinformation out there.

quackwatch.org is a good resource.

Here's one article, and look at the bottom for several links:

http://www.quackwatch.org/01QuackeryRelatedTopics/DSH/creatine.html

.264 magnum
08-18-2004, 14:00
Originally posted by dgg9
From the Dept of Redundancy Dept.

Hey! Don't misunderestimate me! Don't take me out of context of context either....mister.





FWiiW-creatine seemed to give me little lifting boost. Nothing major. Nothing major.

dgg9
08-18-2004, 14:29
Originally posted by .264 magnum
creatine seemed to give me little lifting boost.

I tried it, along with protein powder, for several months, and got nothing perceptible. Per the linked article, above, I think it only helps if you're a power lifter who lifts many hours a week, thus a) are depleting your body's creatine levels anyway and b) can take advantage of the extra.

IMO, most middle-aged moderate to recreational lifters won't benefit from it simply because their workouts are not that intense, nor do they lift the same body parts too often per week.

Catbird
08-18-2004, 14:46
Originally posted by .264 magnum
...Don't take me out of context of context...

...Nothing major. Nothing major.
I have no personal experience with Creatine but I believe that it gives some people double-vision.
;g

.264 magnum
08-18-2004, 15:28
Originally posted by Catbird
I have no personal experience with Creatine but I believe that it gives some people double-vision.
;g

Watch it!

feetpiece
08-18-2004, 16:51
I know people who swear by it but I agree most of the research/claims are made by the companies who are selling the stuff. Thats why a forum like this is great, so we can share I experiences;)

Thanks Eric!

c5367
08-20-2004, 07:19
The thing with creatine is that it only works if you lift heavy and often. For those who lift for tone or only a few tims a weak, it just doesn't offer a huge benefit. OTOH, if you're lifting to failure for multiple sets then creatine works very well.

Oh yeah, you can avoid the water retention by drinking lots of coffee. I love espresso, so its not really an issue, but the caffiene is a very mild diuretic. Helps get rid of the excess

dgg9
08-20-2004, 08:24
Originally posted by c5367
Oh yeah, you can avoid the water retention by drinking lots of coffee. I love espresso, so its not really an issue, but the caffiene is a very mild diuretic. Helps get rid of the excess

Read the article I linked above: there is good evidence caffeine nullifies the value of creatine, for just that reason. Creatine can only work if its primary effect of loading the muscle cells with water is allowed to prevail. Creatine works BECAUSE of water retention.

c5367
08-20-2004, 14:24
The osmotic efffect isn't the only way to load creatine in the cells. Insulin does a pretty good job which is why many of the higher end creatine products are so loaded with sugars. Good article though.

dgg9
08-20-2004, 14:29
Originally posted by c5367
The osmotic efffect isn't the only way to load creatine in the cells.

Right, but regardless of how creatine gets into the cells, its the water content that makes for the effect. Caffeine and other diuretics tend to nullify that effect, per the article. I.e., it isn't the creatine itself that builds muscles. Rather, it's what the creatine indirectly does -- keep water in the muscle cells -- that allows you to work harder and do that extra rep or two, that builds the muscles.

Put another way, it isn't the cell water that draws the creatine and the creatine makes for muscle growth. The opposite is true: it's the creatine that draws the water into the cell and that's what makes the muscles grow.

c5367
08-20-2004, 14:34
Water isn't what allows the extra reps. Creatine, per the article, helps synthesize ATP, which is the basic energy source for cells.

Creatine increases the body's ability to do work._ It is high powered and generates the muscles ultimate energy source - ATP (adenosine triphosphate)- ATP produces the contractions of a muscle's proteins._ When muscles are performing work ATP is being broken down into ADP (adenosine diphosphate) and energy is given off._ The ATP being used usually lasts 10 - 15 seconds._ After that the muscle depends on creatine phosphate to restock the ATP._ Creatine acts as a reserve for the ATP._ Therefore increased amounts of creatine will allow the body to supply ATP at a faster rate._ Which, in turn allows an individual to workout longer and maintain a high level of strength.

Thats an excerpt from this article (http://www.vanderbilt.edu/AnS/psychology/health_psychology/CreatineSupplement.htm)
Its a bit more academic and in depth. Both articel make clear that it is the creatine itself that increases workout capacity, not water. Whether or not excess water is present in the cell has little or no effect on creatine's ability to aid ATP synthesis

dgg9
08-20-2004, 14:45
Originally posted by c5367
Water isn't what allows the extra reps. Creatine, per the article, helps synthesize ATP, which is the basic energy source for cells.


Ok I stand corrected on that mechanism. However the caffeine does nullify the effects of creatine:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=8929583&dopt=Abstract

c5367
08-20-2004, 14:56
Hmmm, interesting. Is there a full text version somewhere? I would be interested in reading the methodolgy. From my own personal experiences, I have found their conclusion not to be the case.

dgg9
08-20-2004, 15:05
Originally posted by c5367
Hmmm, interesting. Is there a full text version somewhere? I would be interested in reading the methodolgy. From my own personal experiences, I have found their conclusion not to be the case.

There are articles on this in:

http://www.creatinemonohydrate.net

...but only if you're a member; I'm not.

These articles mention something about that study's methodology:

http://www.thefactsaboutfitness.com/news/coff_creat.htm

http://www.pponline.co.uk/encyc/0109.htm

Bottom line from those articles: caffeine would be expected to help creatine update, but that 1996 study found the opposite. No one understands the mechanism but the results were clear.

c5367
08-20-2004, 15:08
After re-reading the abstract, I think I know why their results were what they were.
1. There isn't any mention of anything taken w/ the creatine to enhance insulin response, i.e. glucose. Without insulin, the only pathway for creatine uptake is the osmotic, which caffiene does indeed nullify.

2. It appears there was only a period of .5gr per a day for 6 days. I would consider that an insufficient loading period.


edit disregard number 2

California Jack
08-20-2004, 20:13
.264 Mag,

It might depend on your goals. If I remember right, your looking for increased general physical preparedness and to control your body makeup, correct?

Jack

.264 magnum
08-30-2004, 08:20
Originally posted by California Jack
.264 Mag,

It might depend on your goals. If I remember right, your looking for increased general physical preparedness and to control your body makeup, correct?

Jack

Sorry I'm so late to respond.............

I'd like to lose 15 more pounds of fat. And gain 6-7 pounds of muscle. That would put me around 220.

Related to something dgg9 mentioned; I'm a touch hypo-glycemic (several family members have died from diabetes but with one exception they were in thier 80s-90s). So I am touch concerned creatine might put a strain on my kidneys.

California Jack
08-30-2004, 11:21
I think maybe you've answered your question then. When you say creatine gave you a boost in the past, what kind of boost did it give you? DId it make you;

A) stronger
B) bigger
C)able to work out harder

If A or B don't take creatine. It's not helping you fulfill your goals. If the answer is C, only you'd now if the increase is worth the perceived risk.

BTW, still doing one-armed snatches?

.264 magnum
08-30-2004, 12:10
Originally posted by California Jack
I think maybe you've answered your question then. When you say creatine gave you a boost in the past, what kind of boost did it give you? DId it make you;

A) stronger
B) bigger
C)able to work out harder

If A or B don't take creatine. It's not helping you fulfill your goals. If the answer is C, only you'd now if the increase is worth the perceived risk.

BTW, still doing one-armed snatches?

I think C was creatine's mian benefit for me. I THINK I was able to perform an extra rep. sometimes two per set with decent form. So I think it helped me work harder making me a bit stronger and bigger.

I'm not so concerned about weight---but my fat/lean mass ratio and fitness level. I'd rather be a solid 235 than a flabby 220.


I still do one armed snatches........for some reason OASs don't bother my elbows....but I keep the weight very-low 20, 25, 30 then 35. But I don't rest much.

OASs and dumbbell leg curls (between the feet) are very effective for me.

Good to hear from you BTW.