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mrdoright04/05
08-23-2004, 11:04
What do you guys suggest that I do to burn fat? I have already changed my diet and took up exercise. I have read that Long workouts burn more fat. But I like getting things done fast. So I want to 20 -30 mins workout at a quick pace. What do you think?

dave5339
08-23-2004, 13:55
Originally posted by mrdoright04/05
What do you guys suggest that I do to burn fat? I have already changed my diet and took up exercise. I have read that Long workouts burn more fat. But I like getting things done fast. So I want to 20 -30 mins workout at a quick pace. What do you think?

Your body will burn fat best with aerobic exercise, (cycling, running, walking, cross country skiing, or any activity that involves long periods of sustained movement). Cycling is my favorite as it allows me to burn more calories for a given time period than most other aerobic activities, (cross country skiing will burn more but good luck finding snow, let alone groomed trails in Texas!) Check out www.caloriesperhour.com for a great calorie related site.

Also you will really need to exercise more than 30-45 minutes for your body to burn up it's main fuel of choice, blood glucose. You can somewhat control the amount of glucose in your system by watching your carbohydrate and sugar intake. Less carbs/sugars mean less blood glucose. Please note though that I DO NOT recommend the Atkins or Southbeach diets, a healthy well balanced meal combined with exercise will help you lose weight.

Once the glucose is used up your body will switch over to the stored fat in your system to maintain the activity level. The more aerobic exercise you do past this point the more fat you will continue to burn.

Here's a little about myself and what I've found that works for me. July 2003 I was probably close to 250. In December I was diagnosed as a type II diabetic, (A1C of 14.5 fasting blood sugar of 335). At that point the doctor told me to either get it under control or show my wife where the life insurance paperwork was.

I chose to get it under control. I started seeing a dietician, she has me on a controlled and balanced meal program that is extremely simple! I eat 30 grams of protein and 45 grams of carbs for each meal. Snacks are 10 grams of protein and 15 grams of carb for morning, afternoon, and evening snacks. Most mornings I have a scrambled egg and a fruit smoothie. Lunches are sandwiches or left overs with fresh veggies. Dinners are normal dinners with fresh salad or fresh fruit. Snacks are fresh fruit, yogurts, nuts, toast and peanut butter. Most days my calorie intake is about 2300.

When I got diagnosed I also started an exercise program. First I started walking an hour a day, gradually I started adding time and distance on the weekends. Eventually I jumped back on my bike and have rediscovered my passion for cycling. My main goal right now is a 100 mile ride before next April.

Right now my A1C is running around a 5.4, my fasting glucose is about a 105, and I'm clocking in around 197.

Semper Fi

sy2k
08-25-2004, 14:41
Burn more fat with only 20-30 minutes? Perfect!

Try High Intensity Interval Training (HIIT). 20 minutes is all you need, 2-3x/week. But try and do some weight lifting (20-30 minutes 2-3x/week are ideal) to further stimulate your metabolism to burn fat.

Bill Phillips' book 'Body for Life' is a good reference. I'm sure a Google search would work well too to find info on HIIT cardio. Just forget all his plugs for his EAS products - you don't need them.

LittleFoot
08-25-2004, 20:32
i am no expert, but i have read that cardio exercise first thing in the morning after you wake up is the best time of day to burn fat

the reason, as i understand it, is that your blood sugar levels are at their lowest when you first awake after a long night's sleep, since that is likely the longest you go in a day without ingesting anything (unless you wake in the middle of the night for a fridge raid); since they are low, glucose is not readily available, which is your body's first choice for fuel; it then moves on to its second choice, body fat; at the same time, you should have the energy to work out, since you are well rested

i also read, however, that you must be at least 30-35 minutes into the cardio BEFORE you start burning fat, so you may want to rethink the 20 minute idea -- although anything is better than nothing

Chevytuff19
08-25-2004, 23:42
I always heard to exercise about an hour before you go to bed. The theory being, after you exercise, your body continues a higher rate of metabolism for up to 12 hours. So, in theory, you body will still be burning fat while you sleep.

Just what I heard,
Wes

sy2k
08-26-2004, 09:22
you must be at least 30-35 minutes into the cardio BEFORE you start burning fat, so you may want to rethink the 20 minute idea

yes...if you're doing a traditional 'Long Slow Distance' workout, for which 30 minutes would be considered the minimum. 5 minute warm-up, 20 minutes spent in the training zone (usually ~60-70% of heart rate max), 5 minute cool-down.

Interval training pushes one into the 80-100% of max heart rate zone using anywhere from a 1:1 to 1:3 type ratio of sprint to baseline exercise, whether it be running, cycling, heavy bag, etc. This causes an increase in the Basal Metabolic Rate [BMR], (i.e - higher metabolism for more fat burning), even at rest, long after the workout is done. The mechanisms are complicated but involve the stimulation of muscle growth, increased muscular tone and, therefore energetic needs, increased testoterone output, improved cellular efficiency, greater caloric expenditure...put it this way, it's good for you. And, because intervals are quickly fatiguing, there is no need to spend any more than 20-30 minutes. It's not less effort (quite the opposite) - just less time.

Also, the caloric expenditure is greater. With careful attention to diet (true in anyone who's serious about losing weight), one will quickly enter into a caloric deficit with regular HIIT - type training. Higher calories out vs. in = weight loss. The usual guideline is 1 pound of fat = 3500 calories. So, a person in a 500 calorie deficit per day will lose 1 lb/ week.

'Long Slow Distance' has similar effects on the body - it's just not as efficient at strengthening and more time-consuming.

Don't forget strength training. A similar time commitment is also true. 20-30 minutes, 2-3x/week to increase muscular strength, tone, and fat-burning capability. Many studies indicate that regular weight training is just as effective at stimulating weight loss as aerobic training. Of course, studies indicate that a combination of both approaches is ideal.

LittleFoot
08-26-2004, 09:54
Originally posted by sy2k
yes...if you're doing a traditional 'Long Slow Distance' workout, for which 30 minutes would be considered the minimum. 5 minute warm-up, 20 minutes spent in the training zone (usually ~60-70% of heart rate max), 5 minute cool-down.

Interval training pushes one into the 80-100% of max heart rate zone using anywhere from a 1:1 to 1:3 type ratio of sprint to baseline exercise, whether it be running, cycling, heavy bag, etc. This causes an increase in the Basal Metabolic Rate [BMR], (i.e - higher metabolism for more fat burning), even at rest, long after the workout is done. The mechanisms are complicated but involve the stimulation of muscle growth, increased muscular tone and, therefore energetic needs, increased testoterone output, improved cellular efficiency, greater caloric expenditure...put it this way, it's good for you. And, because intervals are quickly fatiguing, there is no need to spend any more than 20-30 minutes. It's not less effort (quite the opposite) - just less time.

Also, the caloric expenditure is greater. With careful attention to diet (true in anyone who's serious about losing weight), one will quickly enter into a caloric deficit with regular HIIT - type training. Higher calories out vs. in = weight loss. The usual guideline is 1 pound of fat = 3500 calories. So, a person in a 500 calorie deficit per day will lose 1 lb/ week.

'Long Slow Distance' has similar effects on the body - it's just not as efficient at strengthening and more time-consuming.

Don't forget strength training. A similar time commitment is also true. 20-30 minutes, 2-3x/week to increase muscular strength, tone, and fat-burning capability. Many studies indicate that regular weight training is just as effective at stimulating weight loss as aerobic training. Of course, studies indicate that a combination of both approaches is ideal.

my understanding is that the higher the intensity of the exercise, the more your body is going to search for glucose or muscle glycogen, as this is a faster burning fuel; fat, on the other hand, is somewhat more difficult to utilize, or is a secondary fuel; that is why some experts suggest that lower intensity/longer duration is more efficient at burning fat

the original thread question was how to lose fat, not how to lose weight, therefore burning fat appears more a priority than burning calories; of course with short duration/high-intensity duration, you will do both (as any exercise is better than nothing), but based upon the articles i have seen, it is not as efficient as you end up burning more glucose/glycogen than bodyfat

wes - exercising an hour before you go to bed is not recommended as this will diminish a person's ability to rest, since the metabolism is all revved up; additionally, this is usually the time a person's energy levels are at their lowest

sy2k
08-26-2004, 09:59
try this:

http://www.wsu.edu/~strength/hiit.htm

saint01
08-26-2004, 14:20
you want to burn fat fast...do Intervals for your cardio

http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/betteru33.htm

LittleFoot
08-26-2004, 14:29
what do you suggest for interval training, for someone who isn't a professional boxer for a living?

saint01
08-26-2004, 14:38
honestly, I would pick of the "body for life" book, but bill phillips. Yes, it has a lot of salesman crap in there, but he does a great job of explaining diet, and how to do a good interval training routine. I have found the book online for $5, and you can let it at amazon for $4 ... Amazon Book (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/offer-listing/0060193395/qid=1093552370/sr=8-1/ref=pd_ka_1a//002-1237472-0300811?condition=all)

That is a great beginners Interval book and the interval training that he provides works very well.

Again, keep in mind that if you get the book, it has a bunch of his salesman talk in it. He is obviously trying to promote his company and his supplements, so just remember that and don't get mad at him when you read it. Any more questions, let me know.

California Jack
08-26-2004, 16:20
Saint is right again. BFL is a good start.

When loosing fat though, weight training sshould be included to reduce muscle loss.

One more thing. There is an exercise protocol called the Tabata protocol. It is excellent for fat burning and it only takes 4 minutes, albeit 4 tough minutes. Seach it in Google.

Jack

LittleFoot
08-26-2004, 17:19
sy2k, try this! (http://www.fatlosstips.com/)

this seems to validate what i said, and unlike James Krieger, this author posts photos of himself to back it up

sy2k
08-26-2004, 18:23
Thanks - it was a good read. Lots of good info. Wish I could say I had Abs like that guy.

Except for the ********** pop-ups!

Seems to me that mrdoright is looking for the best way to burn fat in the shortest amount of time. Hence the recommendation for interval training coupled with a smart weight routine. A stationary cycle works great. So does a treadmill. You don't have to be a boxer. And I second the recommendations to get 'Body for Life' as a reference. Just ignore the hype about Myoplex. You don't need stock in EAS to get in shape.

California Jack
08-26-2004, 18:50
I agree with Sy2k, HIIT or Tabata is good. You can read about Body For Lifes HIIT-style cardio on their website.

Littlefoot is right too. You can getslightly better results by doing cardio after fasting, ie.upon waking in the morning. To help even more don't eat for an hour afterward.

Now where my thought deviate from from Littlefoot is in length of exercise. As far as I now, the purpose of exercise in weight loss programs is not to burn fat while exercising, but to raise you metabolic rate so you use more calories thoughout the day. The best way to do that is HIIT or Tabata.

Just a side bar that may not be pertinent. But as far as the LSD verse interval debate goes, ask yourself; would I rather look like a marathoner or a sprinter?


JMHO,
Jack

G17Jake
08-26-2004, 19:10
To burn fat lift weights and increase muscle mass.

Change diet to cut out junk food.

LittleFoot
08-26-2004, 19:58
Originally posted by sy2k
Thanks - it was a good read. Lots of good info.
Except for the ********** pop-ups!

Ooops! Sorry 'bout that! ;J I've become super-fast at closing them before they have a chance to open all the way that I hardly notice them anymore.


CJ - I watched some Olympic sprinters tonight. They're upper-bodies are muscular because they weight-train, not because they sprint. Marathoners don't typically weight-train because it does not improve their performance, and might actually detract because of the added muscle mass and weight. I guess if I had a choice, I would rather look like an Olympic wrestler or gymnast.

saint01
08-27-2004, 08:35
CJ - I watched some Olympic sprinters tonight. They're upper-bodies are muscular because they weight-train, not because they sprint. Marathoners don't typically weight-train because it does not improve their performance, and might actually detract because of the added muscle mass and weight. I guess if I had a choice, I would rather look like an Olympic wrestler or gymnast.

this is true, however when was the last time that you saw a long distance runner that was ripped? I would be hard pressed to think of more than 3 or 4 that I have seen in my entire lifetime, and those were probably predisposed to be so simply by genetics.

The fact is, that if you want to lose a greater amount of body fat and keep that metabolism up, you have to HIT (intervals). This is not all that new to the market, however there is still, for whatever reason, quite a number of old-schoolers that wont' accept this (not meaning a bad way). The studies have proven it, do intervals and push yourself as hard as you can go when doing it and you will see results. But never forget, the biggest part of all is the DIET!!!!

LittleFoot
08-27-2004, 11:11
Originally posted by saint01
this is true, however when was the last time that you saw a long distance runner that was ripped?

yesterday...my next door neighbor's wife; day before that, t.v. commercial featuring lance armstrong

remember, though, part of being "ripped" means shedding retained water, something a long-distance runner doesn't aim to accomplish

California Jack
08-27-2004, 11:34
Sprinters do weight train their upper bodies. Not for gaining muscle mass, but to train the CNS. Muscle mass is a side effect I'm sure.

However, my point wasn't that sprinters build muscle from sprint training but rather long distance runners lose muscle mass due to training.

Additionally, are we sure there isn't a muscle building effect from sprints? I don't know, but I'm speculating that if plyo can help with muscle mass, than sprinting can also. Are we sure there is no hormonal/endocinal response to sprinting that helps build/maintain muscle mass?

Anyone have any ideas about this?

Lastly Littlefoot, I'm not sure why added upper body mass would only be a deterent to long distance runners. Seems like added muscle in say the pecs, traps, delts etc, do not increase the amount of power that is needed to sprint. Therefore, a sprinters power to weight ratio decreases with upper body mass. Surely that would be a negative, no?

What aesthetic do you find more pleasing about gymnasts or wrestlers over sprinters? Just curious.

I'll tell you this. I have been to a few masters track meets. I play guess the athletes age group with my wife. We have found that we always guess sprinters and throwers to be 5 to 10 years younger than they acutally are and the opposite true with distance runners. Try it. Again, no proof of anything, just something for conversation.

Jack

LittleFoot
08-27-2004, 18:49
Originally posted by California Jack
Littlefoot, I'm not sure why added upper body mass would only be a deterent to long distance runners. Seems like added muscle in say the pecs, traps, delts etc, do not increase the amount of power that is needed to sprint. Therefore, a sprinters power to weight ratio decreases with upper body mass. Surely that would be a negative, no?
i'm not 100% on this, but IIRC training with weights increases the size or number or somehow assists in the development of overall red "fast-twitch" muscle fibers in a person's body, as opposed to the white "slow-twitch" fibers; "fast-twitch" are beneficial for explosive power movements (like sprinting), whereas "slow-twitch" are designed for muscular endurance (like long distance running and swimming)

Originally posted by California Jack
What aesthetic do you find more pleasing about gymnasts or wrestlers over sprinters? Just curious.
mainly the well-balanced and super-strong physiques. excluding the heavyweights amongst wrestlers, the wrestlers and gymnasts are pound-for-pound probably the strongest athletes in the world -- i'm talking about overall strength/power/endurance combined. my brother was friends with a wrestler at a ncaa div. i school who could regularly perform 50 dips and 100 pull-ups....pretty impressive stuff

don't get me wrong, some sprinters have some enviable physiques as well, although i am a little suspicious of how they got there sometimes (cf. Carl Lewis, who never tested positive for anything, and who wasn't nearly as massive as many are today), as well as how they shrink when they stop competing (seen Michael Johnson lately?); the fault i find in their physique may be genetic, but i notice that many sprinters have xxl powerful thigh muscles, but insignificant or non-existent calf muscles, making them look severely out of proportion

Jim in MI
08-29-2004, 07:59
Aerobic exercise burns fat "during" the exercise, but intervals/sprints/whatever will crank up your metabolism and you will burn more calories/day because of this. God is in the details.

Weightlifting---depends on how you do it. I like low weight/high reps, and I move quickly from station to station and don't rest.

If you have 30 minutes warm up for 10, do hard 1 minute sprints, jog recovery, repeat. Same thing on an exercise bike/machine. You only need to do running intervals twice a week, as it is hard on the body (pounding). Swimming and cycling are non weighbearing so you can do intervals more often.

Also, a good way to train your body (liver) to burn fat is 1 day a week of long, slow training.

You body (liver) needs a lot of water to burn fat, so drink up.

Muscles run on ATP, its up to the liver to break down the fat, protein, carbs.

.264 magnum
08-30-2004, 21:52
Originally posted by dave5339
Your body will burn fat best with aerobic exercise, (cycling, running, walking, cross country skiing, or any activity that involves long periods of sustained movement). Cycling is my favorite as it allows me to burn more calories for a given time period than most other aerobic activities, (cross country skiing will burn more but good luck finding snow, let alone groomed trails in Texas!) Check out www.caloriesperhour.com for a great calorie related site.

Also you will really need to exercise more than 30-45 minutes for your body to burn up it's main fuel of choice, blood glucose. You can somewhat control the amount of glucose in your system by watching your carbohydrate and sugar intake. Less carbs/sugars mean less blood glucose. Please note though that I DO NOT recommend the Atkins or Southbeach diets, a healthy well balanced meal combined with exercise will help you lose weight.

Once the glucose is used up your body will switch over to the stored fat in your system to maintain the activity level. The more aerobic exercise you do past this point the more fat you will continue to burn.

Here's a little about myself and what I've found that works for me. July 2003 I was probably close to 250. In December I was diagnosed as a type II diabetic, (A1C of 14.5 fasting blood sugar of 335). At that point the doctor told me to either get it under control or show my wife where the life insurance paperwork was.

I chose to get it under control. I started seeing a dietician, she has me on a controlled and balanced meal program that is extremely simple! I eat 30 grams of protein and 45 grams of carbs for each meal. Snacks are 10 grams of protein and 15 grams of carb for morning, afternoon, and evening snacks. Most mornings I have a scrambled egg and a fruit smoothie. Lunches are sandwiches or left overs with fresh veggies. Dinners are normal dinners with fresh salad or fresh fruit. Snacks are fresh fruit, yogurts, nuts, toast and peanut butter. Most days my calorie intake is about 2300.

When I got diagnosed I also started an exercise program. First I started walking an hour a day, gradually I started adding time and distance on the weekends. Eventually I jumped back on my bike and have rediscovered my passion for cycling. My main goal right now is a 100 mile ride before next April.

Right now my A1C is running around a 5.4, my fasting glucose is about a 105, and I'm clocking in around 197.

Semper Fi


Way to go man! With a fasting B/G number of 335 did you have headaches and dry mouth/dehydration etc.?

My B/G numbers range low. Which sometimes means diabetes is down the line.

I'm working hard to stay in shape. I'm at 230 down from 267.

dave5339
08-31-2004, 07:54
Originally posted by .264 magnum
Way to go man! With a fasting B/G number of 335 did you have headaches and dry mouth/dehydration etc.?

My B/G numbers range low. Which sometimes means diabetes is down the line.

I'm working hard to stay in shape. I'm at 230 down from 267.

When I got diagnosed w/ diabetes the doctor said, "you must be feeling like crap in the mornings!". I sure was, headaches, feeling crummy, and generally feeling run down.

Now that I've got things under control I feel so much better.

Semper Fi

mattb
08-31-2004, 11:05
I've dropped from 248 lb. to 177 lb. since February 2 of this year when I started watching my diet. My workout regimen is 45 to 50 minutes of weight training followed by a 15 minute cardio workout of some sort 3 days per week. I also do a 1 hour bike ride or 30 minute run twice a week. My cholesterol is 180 with no medication (before, I needed Lipitor to get down to 160) and my blood pressure is 110 over 70. I am planning to increase the intensity of my workout slowly over the next year in preparation for Ironman Florida. Finishing that race is a goal I've always had and I intend to get it done.

gudel
08-31-2004, 22:15
are there anyone here who just do running, say every other day, about 2-3 miles?

thaddeus
09-01-2004, 23:54
I have lost a lot of weight and gotten down to low BF%.

I have tried everything.


It seems that everything works if you just apply it. There is no secret.


Workout in the morning, work out at night, cardio slow, cardio fast....it all adds up to calories.
Burn as many calories as you can and cut out simple carbs and bad fats. It all comes down to calories. I don't think you really need to "burn fat" through some technique (I have tried it all, believe me).
Just burn calories, the more the better. Vary your workouts. Push yourself.

Longer cardio is better. Harder cardio is better. Twice a day is better. More is better.

I lose weight just as well doing an hour of slow cardio a day (120 bpm heart rate) as I do with, say, 20 minutes of hard cardio a day (150+ bpm heart rate). During wrestling once a week I am pushing 180+ bpm for a couple hours. That works great too. It all works. It's all calories.

I do try to do some cardio in the morning to get my metabolism going, and I try to do some at night to burn off any excess calories from the day.

If there were any secret it would be this: losing fat is easy, gaining muscle is not. Eat lots of protein and lift weights (high repetition TO MUSCLE FAILURE once a week per muscle group) while you lose weight so that you just lose fat and not muscle.

If you do not watch your diet carfully, you are wasting your time doing cardio to lose weight. Unless you just want to maintain your curent weight...