AR15, Aimpoint, Holosight, or ??

[bigrob215]

I am looking to get a aimpoint or holosight for my AR15 (pictured below). What sight and mounting system is better for a PWA commando with a free float tube with 4 built in picatinny rails. I want the red dot to be flush with my iron sights. I am not interested in night vision models. I heard a aimpoint ML2 with M68 w/ 1" riser will do the job. Thanks guys!

[Barnie 5]

I have a B-Square mount W/Aimpoint 3000 on my carbine. It is a "see through" design and gives you the option to quickly access your iron sights. Overall rise is under 1 inch. Good enough for the military, good enough for me.

[Custom Glock Racing]

Ampint Comp M/ML. I run mine with a mount from the swan guys with QD levers. Works very well.

[MrMurphy]

The Aimpoint Comp M2 is the M68 (M68 is military designation for it). It's got long battery life and is well made.

The Eotech HDS is a holographic sight, non-tube, which gives you better peripheral vision. Either can be mounted on the rear of the upper rail on the foregrip.

With the Aimpoint you get one dot, that's it (and it's kind of small).

Eotechs have the bigger outer ring (65 MOA) for fast action just put the whole thing on the guy and squeeze, or the inner dot, 1 MOA, for longer range target.


Try both if you can.

[akajimmy]

Get the EOTECH holosight 512. Make sure you get a revision F. This will last 1000 hours on the high setting with AA lithium batteries. I have one on my AR and an older one on my AK. Just put it on your flattop and it will cowitness perfectly.

[cl147]

I like the Aimpoint. It's battery life is unreal, and turning the knob is easier that pushing the Eotech's buttons.

I've tried both, and found the 65MOA reticle to be a distraction. Maybe I'm just old school (kinda), but I prefer the Aimpoint's 4MOA dot.

[bigrob215]

Once again, thanks everyone for their help

Rob

[akajimmy]

let us know what you get and we want pics;?

[Jeff S.]

Originally posted by akajimmy
Get the EOTECH holosight 512. Make sure you get a revision F. This will last 1000 hours on the high setting with AA lithium batteries. I have one on my AR and an older one on my AK. Just put it on your flattop and it will cowitness perfectly.


Coming in the mail in a couple of days!

Aimpoint or EOtech is the way to go.

[Chevytuff19]

I'll be uniques and say that the Tijicon TriPower is pretty neat. I have one and it has been very good so far. A little pricey? Yes, but it has a lot of functional features.

Wes

[cheygriz]

Originally posted by Chevytuff19
I'll be uniques and say that the Tijicon TriPower is pretty neat. I have one and it has been very good so far. A little pricey? Yes, but it has a lot of functional features.

Wes

^6^6^6

I prefer the Trijicon reflex to either the dot or holosight. a bit more expensive, but IMHO, worth every penny of it.

[akajimmy]

I always hear about washout with the reflex site? Have you experienced that?

[Chevytuff19]

Mine doesn't wash out. When it is pitch black, your eyes need to adjust to the dark before the tritium appears very bright. But if that bothers you, the Tri-Power always has the battery or Cyalume backups....

Wes

[cheygriz]

Originally posted by Chevytuff19
Mine doesn't wash out. When it is pitch black, your eyes need to adjust to the dark before the tritium appears very bright. But if that bothers you, the Tri-Power always has the battery or Cyalume backups....

Wes

^6 Agreed!

[Hantra]

I am also curious about this subject.

Right now I have a Tasco Red Dot and am looking at a better one.

The Aimpoint looks good. Don't know that much about the EOTech. I was thinking though on the Trijicon ACOG, it has a black crosshair in the daytime, and red at night. . . Wouldn't this be bad in a tactical situation? Like if one is aiming at a black or dark target in the daytime? Wouldn't really be able to see it as well as with the Aimpoint, right?

Thanks,

B

[Nathan2003]

Get yourself something like this. My daily work toys!

[MrMurphy]

The Trijicon ACOG is fiberoptic powered during the day and tritium during the night so the chevron aiming point (upside down V) is always illuminated.

[Ookster]

Do you guys think these expensive red dots are worth the money for a casual plinker? I have a $30 BSA red dot that I occasionally put on top of my Bushmaster 20" carry handle. It fades in bright light and looks real cheap, but it does the job for range shooting.

Now that the Clinton gun ban is gone, I plan to buy a new Bushmaster M4 type A3 rifle. I definitely want a red dot sight, but I'm considering which one to get. Subjective question: are the Aimpoints and Eotechs overkill for casual shooters or are they worth the money? (I might also want to use the gun in 3-gun matches.)

Eric

[cl147]

The lack of paralax alone makes Aimpoint worth the money.

Cheap red dots are plagued with paralax, and at 50 yards can affect your shooting by as much as 6". I learned this the hard way.

[pnguyen678]

Originally posted by Ookster
Do you guys think these expensive red dots are worth the money for a casual plinker? I have a $30 BSA red dot that I occasionally put on top of my Bushmaster 20" carry handle. It fades in bright light and looks real cheap, but it does the job for range shooting.

Now that the Clinton gun ban is gone, I plan to buy a new Bushmaster M4 type A3 rifle. I definitely want a red dot sight, but I'm considering which one to get. Subjective question: are the Aimpoints and Eotechs overkill for casual shooters or are they worth the money? (I might also want to use the gun in 3-gun matches.)

Eric

Eric,
If you want to save some money on a red dot, maybe a Hakko TacPoint would be a better choice for you. It'll save you some cash but you do lose some ruggedness of a sight like the AimPoint. I have some pics here:
http://www.pnguyen678.com/WebPage_Tactical/Tactical_TacPoint.html
Hope this helps.
Best,
Phong

[chevrofreak]

Originally posted by cl147
The lack of paralax alone makes Aimpoint worth the money.

Cheap red dots are plagued with paralax, and at 50 yards can affect your shooting by as much as 6". I learned this the hard way.


My cheap $30 target Sports DTB130 has no parallax.

[lonewolf28152]

Originally posted by Nathan2003
Get yourself something like this. My daily work toys!

Nathan, what kind of scope base is that and also the rear sight. Do they co-witness?

[Nathan2003]

It is an ARMS 22M68 with a throw level and a ARMS 22M68 Cantilever forward extension. I purchased them both from www.eaglefirearms.net. Great people and you get an LEO discount. Fast shipping with excellent communication. I buy all my stuff from them if I can and they carry it.

http://www.eaglefirearms.net/ARMSnumber22M68.htm mount

http://www.eaglefirearms.net/ARMSnumber22M68Extension.htm forward ext.

The BUIS (back up iron sight) is a ARMS #40 flip-up. It is in the down position in that pic but yes, it co-witnesses perfectly with that scope set up.

http://www.eaglefirearms.net/ARMSnumber40.htm BUIS


The scope is a HAKKO TacPoint 1. I rely on it to keep me alive and its never failed me. Its about 200 to 300 cheaper then Aimpoints but to each his own. Some people claim its not as 'tough' as an aimpoint but I yet to see otherwise. Im also not charging through the mountains of Afghanistan or Iraq nor am I in the Jungles of Asia. :) There is a place you can get them for $105 shipped.

Here is a picture of the sight up.

[Ookster]

Nathan,
With that setup, how is the cowitnessing of the irons through the scope tube? How much higher than the top of the front iron sight would you say is the red dot? Thanks.
Eric

[AZG23]

Ive got that same red dot. I like it so far..

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v214/azg23/Dcp02096.jpg

Mines mounted with an ARMS 16A on the A2 carry handle.

[AZG23]

The scope is a HAKKO TacPoint 1. I rely on it to keep me alive and its never failed me.

Nathan,

How long have you been using it..??

[Nathan2003]

Originally posted by Ookster
Nathan,
With that setup, how is the cowitnessing of the irons through the scope tube? How much higher than the top of the front iron sight would you say is the red dot? Thanks.
Eric

It co-witnesses great. The Red Dot sits on top of the front site post. Think of a lollipop and you'll get the idea. :)

AZG23 : Ive only had it for a few months due to the import issues that many places were having while trying to get them in stock. I have beat on it a little, nothing serious but its been dropped, banged on walls, hung up on gear, slung around while cuffing. Pretty much everything but soaked in water. (dont do that, another guy tried it and it leaked) Like I said before, its not being subjected to the tortures of Afghanistan/Iraq but it serves its purpose. I dont intentionally try to break it but it has held up with the wear and tears of my daily life.

Also, how do you like the A2 setup you have? That is going to be my next project as soon as my local gun dealer gets his FFL submitted, I have everything but the lower. I am worried about that setup b/c the scope is so much higher then the BBL/Irons. One last thing, what type of Vertical grip is that?

[AZG23]

Originally posted by Nathan2003


AZG23 : Ive only had it for a few months due to the import issues that many places were having while trying to get them in stock. I have beat on it a little, nothing serious but its been dropped, banged on walls, hung up on gear, slung around while cuffing. Pretty much everything but soaked in water. (dont do that, another guy tried it and it leaked) Like I said before, its not being subjected to the tortures of Afghanistan/Iraq but it serves its purpose. I dont intentionally try to break it but it has held up with the wear and tears of my daily life.

Also, how do you like the A2 setup you have? That is going to be my next project as soon as my local gun dealer gets his FFL submitted, I have everything but the lower. I am worried about that setup b/c the scope is so much higher then the BBL/Irons. One last thing, what type of Vertical grip is that?

Awesome...please keep us, or at least me posted as to what you are putting it thru, and how its doing...there are ALOT of people on ARFCOM that are slamming it saying it wont hold up to hard use...I'd like to know. Ive been doing a battery life run time on it....and Im at 191 hours so far....the dot is fading some at this point. This isnt an issue as batteries are pretty cheap to be able to carry a few extras. And 191 hours is what you'd get with an older Aimpoint or EOTech. Im pretty impressed as most said it would die after 5-6 days...remember this is CONSTANT on...

As for the water proof...Im not gonna dunk it, but Im not worried if it happened...it still worked afterwards. It just fogged up a little, but you could still see the dot thru it.

As for the mount...the ARMS is awesome. As for the height..it is a little tall,but Im getting used to it. I got a great deal on the A2 and am making it work. It's more of a "heads up" kinda feel..not scrunched down like using the irons.

The vertical grip is an aluminum pc. from Young Manufacturing. I got it from Delta Force for more than its probably worth. Although it is a nice vert. And it fits the stock handguards until I get my M73 rail.

http://www.deltaforce.com/

page 4...they are expensive, but I liked this one so I paid it. I wont buy anything else from them..they did ship fast though.

[Nathan2003]

lol, I also got a lot of info on the TacPoint from ARFCOM. For what I needed it to do it does and at a quarter of the price an Aimpoint would run me.

My Vert grip is made by ergogrips.com. It mounts to the standard forend and serves its purpose. I think I paid around $50. It has the storage tube thing for spare batteries and such. I was thinking about getting a rail system but then again I dont need one. I paid $7 for a Insight M3/M6 light holder and someone from here gave me the pressure switch to run it. Maybe in the future ill spend the $400 on a SIR or something like that but for now im happy.

The 'whos battery lasts longer' BS is sorta silly to me. Like you said, the batteries are so cheap, who cares if you change one every 2 weeks. If the aimpoints last a month and the Tacpoints last a week, I really dont care. :) I'll replace my batteries after 10 entries or usuages so ill know I have a fresh one. Plus i'll keep a bunch in vert grip. ;f

I'll keep you posted on its abuse if I should manage to find something wrong. I am going to look for some 3 gun matches around here but so far I haven't had any luck.

Take care and happy shooting.

[AZG23]

Im not sure if you have seen the Surefire M73....if you have nevermind...if not its around $170.00 ish....its supposedly tight enough and stable enough for mounting optics....you may wanna check it out before paying the $400 for a KAC or other railed system.


Thanks for the info...stay safe!

[Nathan2003]

I dont think ill be getting any sort of rail system in the near future. However, when I have the money to toss around ill probably upgrade and get one. As of now, I get what I need, works and what I can afford.

Thank you for the info on the Surefire M73. Ill keep that in mind when I do finally decide to upgrade.

Stay Safe

Edit: There is a cheaper vert grip on Deltaforce under the AR15 Tactical Accessories page. Runs about $40. Hmmmmm!

[pnguyen678]

Originally posted by Nathan2003
It is an ARMS 22M68 with a throw level and a ARMS 22M68 Cantilever forward extension. I purchased them both from www.eaglefirearms.net. Great people and you get an LEO discount. Fast shipping with excellent communication. I buy all my stuff from them if I can and they carry it.

http://www.eaglefirearms.net/ARMSnumber22M68.htm mount

http://www.eaglefirearms.net/ARMSnumber22M68Extension.htm forward ext.

The BUIS (back up iron sight) is a ARMS #40 flip-up. It is in the down position in that pic but yes, it co-witnesses perfectly with that scope set up.

http://www.eaglefirearms.net/ARMSnumber40.htm BUIS


The scope is a HAKKO TacPoint 1. I rely on it to keep me alive and its never failed me. Its about 200 to 300 cheaper then Aimpoints but to each his own. Some people claim its not as 'tough' as an aimpoint but I yet to see otherwise. Im also not charging through the mountains of Afghanistan or Iraq nor am I in the Jungles of Asia. :) There is a place you can get them for $105 shipped.

Here is a picture of the sight up.

Hey Nathan,

What's the purpose of that Cantilever forward extension? Do you prefer it that far forward?

I have the same setup as you (TacPoint with ARMS 22 M68) and I like it that it sits lower to the bore.

http://www.pnguyen678.com/WebPage_Tactical/Misc/SmallThumb_TacPoint_ARSideView.jpg

[chevrofreak]

How does that TacPoint compare to the Aimpont Comp ML2 for durability, dor crispness, brightness, and parallax?

[Nathan2003]

pnguyen: I prefer it farther forward, and it leaves more room between my BUIS and the scope. I dont know why but I prefer this setup.
BTW, beautiful weapon, it almost looks like an H&K lower with it being shiny black with the red lettering. What brand is that lower and what type stock is that?


chevrofreak: I have never owned an Aimpoint and have only looked through one once. My agency just purchased some for our duty AR's so once we get them mounted I will be better able to answer your question.

As far as I can tell the TP holds up fine. I have had no problems with it after banging it around, the dot is sharp as far as I can tell (again, nothing to compare to). I have experienced no parallax. The bullet goes where the dot points no matter how I have my eye situated. (After sighting in of course) I have only shot in bright sunlight a few times but I had no problems with the dot being to dim. Then again, I am not shooting at the sun. :)

Overall im extremely pleased with the scope.

[pnguyen678]

Hey Nathan,

Thanks for your post and your nice compliment. I'm using the MagPul MSS 93 stock on a Rock River Arms Upper and Lower.

Painting your SAFE and FIRE indicators near your trigger guard is remarkably easy. It looks great too. I posted a pic on my website here:

http://www.pnguyen678.com/WebPage_Tactical/slides/RRAAR15_014_Painted.html

I hope this helps!

Best,
Phong

[Nathan2003]

Great Idea for the lower. I think I might try the old paint thing this weekend.

I love that stock. I think I might end up getting one. Are there any benefits over a regular Collaspible? And, where did you get it?

[pnguyen678]

Nathan,

I think the MagPul MSS 93 and the VLTOR are the best collapsible stocks out there. I like the MSS 93 the best because it has a really solid cheek weld. So, it has the advantages of the collapsible stock and the feel of the A2 solid stock. The best of both worlds.

The only downside is that it's really expensive. You can find for a little over $200.00. This may be a deal breaker for you since I had to save up for it myself as well. You can order from their website www.magpul.com if you still want one.

Best,
Phong

[Nathan2003]

I was actually considering buying one until I saw how expensive they are. I think ill stick to my RRA 6pos for now. Thanks for the info though.

Im off to the hobby store tomorrow to get my paint for the Fire/Safe lettering. Is that just the standard red or is it some funky color like "fire engine" or "Cherry" red? Gloss or flat?

BTW, great website!

[pnguyen678]

Nathan,
You can find the paint at Wal-Mart in the section where they sell the model airplanes. I bought the cheap Gloss Acrylic paint set that they had there for about $5.00. It should do fine.
Good luck!
Phong

[Nathan2003]

One last question before I go. What did you clean the reciever with? Alchohol or carb cleaner?

Ill post picks when im done.

[pnguyen678]

Nathan,

i just used plain old isopropyl alcohol that I had under my sink. It was only 70% so something stronger like 90% will probably work better.

Good luck!
Phong

[Nathan2003]

I didn't have any Iso so I used my wifes nail polish remover. That seemed to clean it pretty good.

You must have some steady steady hands. I have one coat on and its looking rather...... crappy.

Maybe after a few coats it will look better.

[pnguyen678]

Nathan,

If you got the small fine brush, use the gloss red and white to fill in those cracks. Let it dry and then wipe the excess.

It'll look better after it dries and you get all the excess off. Of course, you'll need to apply some CLP afterwards where you put the rubbing alcohol.

Keep at it. You'll get it.

Best,
Phong

[chevrofreak]

try a toothpick

[Nathan2003]

I think ill just pile on the paint then do what you said and remove the excess. Also, the toothpick idea sounds good, maybe ill try that.


Ill keep you posted!

[chevrofreak]

Use the toothpick to drip it or dab it into the lettering. It should dome over like water does when a glass is too full, keeping it from running out. Just make sure you keep the rifle flat.

[Nathan2003]

I see what you're saying. Its to late for this one. It did however turn out pretty good. When my new lower shows up, im going to use the toothpick method. Sounds fool proof.

As of now, here is the finished product.

The lettering is actually a lot sharper then in the photo. You live and you learn.

Thanks for the idea pnguyen and the different way to apply the paint chev.

[Nathan2003]

Both the red and the white look like the white does in this picture. And I didn't even have to photoshop it. :D

[pnguyen678]

Nathan,

That looks great. Good job.

If you're the perfectionist first-born type and want to start over to get it perfect, just put that 90% alcohol in there and it'll come right out.

Thanks for posting your pics.

[Nathan2003]

lol, I kinda am. My wife hates me for it. Some things I like perfect, others I could care less about. I may redo it but as of now, its looking pretty good and I may leave it.

It doesn't look as good as yours but im happy with my first try.

Thanks again for the idea and help!

[chevrofreak]

Once it dries completely the paint should shrink a bit, maybe making it look a little better.