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Eye Cutter
09-18-2004, 08:13
Here are pictures of recovered slugs from our informal ballistic testing using 5 wet PLDT Telephone Diretories stacked together at a distance of 7 meters yesterday at the PB Range.

The pistols used were dogman's Para P18-9 LDA and my brother's Glock 30.

L-R: Hornady XTP .45cal, (next 3 in middle)PBD Bullseye brand 9mm 124 JHP's, Starfire 230gr .45cal JHP

look at the Hornady slug, it didn't mushroom. The locally loaded 9mm's expanded almost as big as the imported .45 on the right!

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v341/aagustin11563/100_1368.jpg

Care to share you informal ballistic testing?

Eye Cutter
09-18-2004, 08:18
The slugs were all recovered inside the 4th wet telephone directory. That's more than 12 inches of penetration which is preferred for defensive ammo. We also shot the directories with 9mm 124gr fmj's but were not able to recover any slug as it passed through the 5 stacks of directories!

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v341/aagustin11563/100_1366.jpg

9MX
09-18-2004, 08:19
Doc,

PBD Bulls Eye - how much a pc? is it compatible with the CZ 75/85 and Glock 26/19/17?

Eye Cutter
09-18-2004, 08:21
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v341/aagustin11563/100_1367.jpg

Eye Cutter
09-18-2004, 08:28
oops! bad!!! forgot to ask. actually its a new offering that PB will sell. The heads are locally sourced daw. Will ask when I see Mr. Gaerlan at the range.

9MX
09-18-2004, 08:32
i wonder if those are the same jhp heads, hahn is selling. P11.00 ata per pc noon gunshow.

julianz
09-19-2004, 08:52
doc EC inumpisahan mo na din lang experiment , is it possible to test our local ammo on jeans and metals (as in lumang kotse)
i have lurked in other talks and wondering if our ammo back there are as effective or more effective than imported ones.


i will appreciate it very much and im sure BOG's will appreciate it just as much kung pwede lang po.

v1ct0r
09-19-2004, 16:37
Originally posted by julianz
doc EC inumpisahan mo na din lang experiment , is it possible to test our local ammo on jeans and metals (as in lumang kotse)


Hmmm try natin sa mercedes benz?


^2


sorry po dko lang mapigilan... ;W


:cool:

vega
09-20-2004, 08:51
Eye cutter - good report. I also tried Hornady XTP 9mm before but they didn't expand. I bought the heads from Strong Arms.

vega

mbclubph
09-20-2004, 13:57
i bought hornady ammos for carry 9mm P65/each yan ba yung nasa red box of 25.? I also bought cheap talisman (twinpines P19.00/piece) 9mm ammo's the head parang hornady din but the price malayo test mo narin sir if you have time.. thanks

saw sa buy and sell ads paper sept 28 issue


HYDRASHOCK 9MM FEDERAL P1,000.00 / BOX OF 50'S
SELLIER AND BELLOT 9MM FMJ P500.00 / BOX OF 50'S

CELL NUMBER 0917-8863210

horge
09-20-2004, 18:39
Doc,

Nice! Thanks for sharing.
Your experience with the XTP's mirrors that of other testers, and poor or rather non-expansion of XTP's runs across the board, caliber-wise.

I wish I had gotten around to water testing cartridges for terminal performance, pero even if I had, puro .380 ACP naman ang mga yun.
Again, thanks.


.

batangueno
09-20-2004, 20:32
Originally posted by 9MX
i wonder if those are the same jhp heads, hahn is selling. P11.00 ata per pc noon gunshow. Yes, they do look like Speer Gold Dots.

New_comer
09-21-2004, 01:03
Originally posted by 9MX
i wonder if those are the same jhp heads, hahn is selling. P11.00 ata per pc noon gunshow. Bumili din ako nun e. Gold dot daw... ^8

On testing, would it suffice if I use a bucketful of fine grained sand tapos babasain na parang putik ang dating? I'd like to test some JHP ammo I bought for the 9mm and 45, particularly yung Fiocchi, reloaded na Gold dot, yung local head sa Hahn at yung local Hydrashock ke True weight. Anybody tried thru this medium o sa putik?

mikey177
09-22-2004, 00:42
Originally posted by Eye Cutter
Here are pictures of recovered slugs from our informal ballistic testing using 5 wet PLDT Telephone Diretories stacked together at a distance of 7 meters yesterday at the PB Range.

Thanks for the informative informal tests, Doc. One question: were you using the yellow pages or the white pages?

If I get a chance to pass by Quezon City, could I donate some S&B JHPs for you to evaluate? That's the load I'm currently using. I can also provide some old T-shirts and maong pants if you're interested in testing the performance of the ammo through garments. Thanks.

julianz
09-22-2004, 02:48
sige..sige..please.. please... please..then post ..post.. post

New_comer
09-22-2004, 04:02
Maganda din yung pinapakitang video ng Hahn tuwing gunshow.

Mga plastic na supot, pangyelo yata, nakahilera sa isang makitid na wooden frame, mga 10 bags in a row. Madali pang ma-retrieve yung slug (wag lang FMJ!) ;)

Eye Cutter
09-22-2004, 05:19
mikey: sige iwan mo lang kay gerianne sa range. subukan natin. the 5 wet telephone directories (white and yellow pages) were stacked inside a plastic bag.

let's try it with different types of garments.

sino pa gusto mag-donate nang ammo for testing? Let's use only 1 kind of pistol as much as possible. I have 9mm federal 147 gr jhp, starfire 115 jhp and corbon 115 +P jhp I want to test.

9MX
09-22-2004, 08:19
Originally posted by mikey177
Thanks for the informative informal tests, Doc. One question: were you using the yellow pages or the white pages?

If I get a chance to pass by Quezon City, could I donate some S&B JHPs for you to evaluate? That's the load I'm currently using. I can also provide some old T-shirts and maong pants if you're interested in testing the performance of the ammo through garments. Thanks.

what is the difference if its yellow or white?;Q

mbclubph
09-22-2004, 15:20
dummy bullets post naman power factor... how about 12 gauge pa chrono naman sir:) :) :) napadaan lang

Eye Cutter
09-22-2004, 17:33
power factor ng dummy bullets? di ata pwede yun...

nasira chrono namin. nalubog sa baha

JuDGe
09-22-2004, 17:41
Sige Doc, I will throw in a couple of 9mm Black Talons ;f

Eye Cutter
09-22-2004, 18:08
kahit hindi na ako.

here's the procedure: we soaked 5 old PLDT telephone directories in water then placed them inside a plastic bag (yung pinaglagyan din na plastic bag nang directory). width of the stacked directories was around 16 inches. then we shot the directories from a distance of 7 meters.

most of the slugs were recovered inside the 4th book. then post na lang mga pics ng slugs dito

;e

mikey177
09-23-2004, 00:28
Originally posted by 9MX
what is the difference if its yellow or white?;Q

Aren't the yellow pages (commercial/business listings) thicker than the white pages (residential subscribers)?

PF ng dummy bullets... masyadong malalim, di ko maisip kung paano makuha ito ;P

9MX
09-23-2004, 00:54
Originally posted by mikey177
Aren't the yellow pages (commercial/business listings) thicker than the white pages (residential subscribers)?



correct! but since they were stacked together and penetration was 12 inches..it shouldn't really matter if it was yellow or white;)

but that's just the engineer in me;e

mc_oliver
09-23-2004, 00:59
Originally posted by 9MX
correct! but since they were stacked together and penetration was 12 inches..it shouldn't really matter if it was yellow or white;)

but that's just the engineer in me;e
The yellow dyes used in the yellow pages causes the JHP to expand more fully than the white.

mikey177
09-23-2004, 01:29
Originally posted by 9MX
correct! but since they were stacked together and penetration was 12 inches..it shouldn't really matter if it was yellow or white;)

but that's just the engineer in me;e

Point taken. Was just thinking if the tests would be more consistent if only one thickness of directory were used. Don't mind me, I've got too much time on my hands these days (sigh).

Anyway, if anyone wants to take these tests to the next level, here's a link that gives details on how to prepare ballistic gelatin: http://www.firearmstactical.com/tacticalbriefs/volume3/number2/article1.htm

Pwede kayang JellyAce na lang ang gamitin :)

jundeleon
09-23-2004, 03:29
I maybe OT but which is more lethal: a bullet that stays in the body or one that penetrates through?

And why is it that in one test in the us (strasbourgh tests yata yun where they shot live goats) the frangible rounds emerged the fastest incapacitator?

I am also planning to conduct my own informal ballistic experiments. I plan to use my old issues of playboy and penthouse magazine which I started collecting since I was 3 years old. I wonder how these magazines will affect bullet expansion and penetration.

julianz
09-23-2004, 03:48
I am also planning to conduct my own informal ballistic experiments. I plan to use my old issues of playboy and penthouse magazine which I started collecting since I was 3 years old. I wonder how these magazines will affect bullet expansion and penetration. [/B][/QUOTE]

wag sayang ..but if you use your collections , my best guess is very deeeeep penetration coz the rounds are gonna be STIFF;f ;f ;f

collecting pornos since 3..you dog:drool:

flyboy 1
09-23-2004, 03:50
Pards,

I've been following with keen interest the various researches and trends on this very subject. Check out www.ammolab.com or www.stoppingpower.net for topics on this area. You can also try the Caliber Corner forum under Glock Talk mismo. I remember may mga previous threads na din on the subject dito sa BOG's. ;f

Eye Cutter
09-23-2004, 04:13
yeah. the strassbourg test uses french alpine goats. yung mga kambing na yun daw kasi kasing bigat halos nang average human male. Pag di yata bumagsak kambing sa 1 shot, bokya score ng bala!

ang ideal na bala should expand on impact to creat a big cavity. it should cause big tissue damage and blood loss to bring down the BG. Mga frangible ammo separates into several pieces on penetration so it literally mimics several hits to cause more damage. mga fmj, mag through and through lang. muscle and tissue contraction will stem blood loss.

mc_oliver
09-23-2004, 04:51
Originally posted by jundeleon
I am also planning to conduct my own informal ballistic experiments. I plan to use my old issues of playboy and penthouse magazine which I started collecting since I was 3 years old. I wonder how these magazines will affect bullet expansion and penetration.
Too much dye in the prints. The bullet won't penetrate. But I admit I like this post better.

, my best guess is very deeeeep penetration coz the rounds are gonna be STIFF
;z ;z ;z

Wala ba'ng BOG's dito na mey slaughter house?

A very long time ago, an uncle tried his 38 spec wonder load on a large pig. One hit to the head. The pig just blinked and got a scar. On the other hand, a 9mm from a g26 would really make a cow very angry. ;f;f ...sarap ng buhay probinsya. :)

9MX
09-23-2004, 05:06
Originally posted by mc_oliver
The yellow dyes used in the yellow pages causes the JHP to expand more fully than the white.

why?;Q

9MX
09-23-2004, 05:06
Originally posted by mc_oliver
The yellow dyes used in the yellow pages causes the JHP to expand more fully than the white.

why?;Q

9MX
09-23-2004, 05:06
sorry for the double tap;g

mc_oliver
09-23-2004, 05:15
Originally posted by 9MX
why?;Q
HAH! Gotcha. ;f;f Kaw naman. 'di mabiro. ;f

9MX
09-23-2004, 05:17
Originally posted by mc_oliver
HAH! Gotcha. ;f;f Kaw naman. 'di mabiro. ;f

:soap: ;f

flyboy 1
09-30-2004, 03:15
...

miko_a
10-02-2004, 10:10
Is it really safe to shoot those wet directories at around that distance (7meters)? Won't the bullets bounce back? I shot a plank of wood with my airrifle and the bullet bounced back... just a thought, isn't that a possibility with the test your conducting?

Eye Cutter
10-09-2004, 06:37
mikey: i got the sample ammo and the old shirts and denim. will do the experiments within the week. nakalimutan ko dalhin camera ko.

i'll use my CZ and a Glock para compatible with your pistols

9MX
10-09-2004, 07:13
Originally posted by Eye Cutter
mikey: i got the sample ammo and the old shirts and denim. will do the experiments within the week. nakalimutan ko dalhin camera ko.

i'll use my CZ and a Glock para compatible with your pistols

hmmm....this is interesting for me too!!!!!:)

vega
10-09-2004, 08:55
Originally posted by miko_a
Is it really safe to shoot those wet directories at around that distance (7meters)? Won't the bullets bounce back? I shot a plank of wood with my airrifle and the bullet bounced back... just a thought, isn't that a possibility with the test your conducting? There's a big, big difference between a plank of wood and wet directories. Even if you wet the wood (with pun intended) the hardness would probably just diminish a little, just so little that you won't be able to tell unless you have a hardness tester.

Pinch an inch of wet directory and tear it apart I bet you would be able to do it then get 1/2" thick of wet wood and try tearing it apart...

I don't know what kind of airgun you use but it probably doesn't have enough air in it. I used to do that with my air pistol, after the 10th shot my pellets just bounced back and I was shooting rubber.

Oh, did I say there's a big difference between wood and wet directories?;)

vega

mikey177
10-11-2004, 00:25
Originally posted by Eye Cutter
mikey: i got the sample ammo and the old shirts and denim. will do the experiments within the week...

Thanks, Doc. I'd appreciate that :)

flyboy 1
10-13-2004, 20:42
...

Eye Cutter
10-13-2004, 22:30
you guys want to do the informal testing this saturday or sunday afternoon at the range? armscor or PB tayo. I'll bring the telephone directories and mikey's props and ammo!

Eye Cutter
10-13-2004, 22:57
pupunta pala kayo sa armscor this sunday. i'll meet up with you guys there para meron din pictures! dino, maghahanda ka ba?

zorkd
10-13-2004, 23:50
y'all gonna be shooting phone books this sunday?

in that case, i'll really do my best to be there, this should be fun.

plates, poppers and boards are getting boring, i miss having a firing range in my house, i used to plink all day with a .22 rifle and my USP45.

mc_oliver
10-14-2004, 00:00
O ano, SHOOT MEET? ;c

flyboy 1
10-14-2004, 00:11
Originally posted by Eye Cutter
pupunta pala kayo sa armscor this sunday. i'll meet up with you guys there para meron din pictures! dino, maghahanda ka ba?
Just had lunch with Deenoh and 9mx. Yes Doc, pakain daw si Deenoh ng pizza sa Sunday ;x Chip-in na lang siguro tayo kahit konte para di naman madugo for Deenoh (mukhang madami tayo).

Since we'll be doing the ballistic testing there, I'll bring na din the subject ammo. Those with video cameras might want to bring their units to document the event (I'll try getting mine from my brother). Might be a good idea to get some footage para we have something to show everybody come the BOG anniversary on the 15th.
^1 ^a ^1

Eye Cutter
10-14-2004, 04:56
oki doki! i'll ask dogman na sabihan si Capt. kung pwede mag pa set-up ng 4 stages para BoG mini-Funshoot! yebaa!!!!

bring your practice and match ammo!

9MX
10-14-2004, 05:40
Originally posted by Eye Cutter
oki doki! i'll ask dogman na sabihan si Capt. kung pwede mag pa set-up ng 4 stages para BoG mini-Funshoot! yebaa!!!!

bring your practice and match ammo!

berks pala si dogman at tsaka si cap ha.

el prez jmy,

sana you can join us:)

deenoh
10-14-2004, 06:13
Sige mga ser, papa-pizza ako on Sunday :) Sana kasya sa ating lahat

Ayos yan, mini-funshoot. Hope to see you guys there.

deenoh
10-14-2004, 07:28
Originally posted by Eye Cutter
pupunta pala kayo sa armscor this sunday. i'll meet up with you guys there para meron din pictures! dino, maghahanda ka ba?

Simple merienda lang Doc :)

Mc_o, baka pwede ma-hiram nung mga ginawa mong video (ex: yun may "bring me to life" soundtrack). Thanks!

9MX
10-14-2004, 08:02
ayos! i have a palm card:cool:

mbclubph
10-14-2004, 17:41
i load hornady xtp? for carry lastnight check ko yung difference ng local talisman ammo P19EACH (twinpines) manufacturer dont know if they use imported heads nalilito lang ako mga sir kung bakit yung mga nabili ko sa casa armas na hornady P65EACH iba iba yung markings sa basyo may rp and frontier?? and the head parang iba iba



first pic all horndy

second pic left hornady right talisman

mbclubph
10-14-2004, 17:45
.

mikey177
10-14-2004, 18:11
mbclubph,

the resolution on the photos you attached is not good, so we can't clearly see the markings or other details of the bullets.

could it be that Casa loads the bullets here using Hornady heads and different brass?

mbclubph
10-14-2004, 18:42
sorry sir cel gamit ko medyo malabo nga pero pati yung ulo magkaiba eh may malaki butas and maliit

paltic
10-14-2004, 20:16
sige mga pare try namin pumunta nina crispin sa sunday...ilang rounds po kaya ang magagamit sa funshoot?....hindi kami ang nagtatanong...mga wives namin;e

last sunday ay inabutan kami ng copy ng MEMO regarding having a "BADBOY" whoever na gagamit ng range... medyo annoying kasi yung iba na nasa car ka pa lang ay lalapitan kana at magpipilit na siya ang magiging BADBOY mo... pls. share your thoughts regarding this. thank you po.

batangueno
10-14-2004, 23:44
Funshoot na may libre pizza pa...sama ako dyan. ;f

deenoh
10-15-2004, 09:08
Required na ang Homeboy sa Armscor? I didnt know that. Minsan having one isnt really a problem. You can save a lot of time if you have a Homeboy pero if you're just planning to have a short practice/plinking session, medyo hindi practical.

vega
10-15-2004, 09:18
Magkano na ba ang bayad sa BadBoy? Dati chip-in lang kami, P50 or P20 per head yata. Meron din tamad hindi namin kinukuha.

vega

crispin
10-15-2004, 22:08
50 per hour po ang singil nila per homeboy sa armscor and if your more than four persons on one bay you are required to have 2 homeboys, so if your planning to stay for two hours or maybe three, get ready to shell extra 150 pesos per homeboy...hmmm anak ko nalang kaya gawing kong homeboy, im sure he can use that money.;)

vega
10-16-2004, 21:53
PER HOUR??? Dati as long as nasa bay ka fix ang bayad. When we use to parctice there we stay from opening to closing. Yung P100-150 malaki na. Well, hirap na kasi buhay ngayon.

vega

Eye Cutter
10-17-2004, 07:14
i wasn't able to wait for the rest of you guys at armscor this afternoon. had to go and play tennis.

mikey's ammo samples were shot in dogman's pistol (Para P18-9 LDA) and they were able to recover the slugs. the tactical edge 9mm ammo as dogman termed it, were all "supot"!

they were able to take pics. i'll post it when I get back my camera.

ogiebb
10-17-2004, 08:17
pasensya na po...pero whats a Badboy? pulot boy ng shells ba yun??

9MX
10-17-2004, 08:32
Originally posted by ogiebb
pasensya na po...pero whats a Badboy? pulot boy ng shells ba yun??

nadale mo ogiebb! i think they were called that way because some steal the shooter's shells

ogiebb
10-17-2004, 09:34
Originally posted by 9MX
nadale mo ogiebb! i think they were called that way because some steal the shooter's shells


kawawa naman yung makakapulot ng shells ko at reload kung mag lalaro ako dyan he he he.... 9mm Open major one time use lang e buntis kaagad pagkatapos;f ;f ;f ;f

mikey177
10-18-2004, 01:43
Originally posted by Eye Cutter
mikey's ammo samples were shot in dogman's pistol (Para P18-9 LDA) and they were able to recover the slugs. the tactical edge 9mm ammo as dogman termed it, were all "supot"!

they were able to take pics. i'll post it when I get back my camera.

Geez, thanks for the feedback, Doc. Its a good thing I only bought 25 rounds of the stuff for initial testing and evaluation. Actually, I was wary of the rounds because they use Hornady 9mm heads that haven't had the best results in formal testing, but I wanted to give them the benefit of the doubt.

I eagerly await the pics. Thanks again :)

zorkd
10-18-2004, 19:35
B = basyo
a = at
D = dikit (taga dikit nang tape sa board)

heh

ogiebb
10-18-2004, 19:45
Originally posted by zorkd
B = basyo
a = at
D = dikit (taga dikit nang tape sa board)

heh


he he he kaya pala B.A.D. ;f ;f ;f

Eye Cutter
10-19-2004, 06:22
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v483/eyecutter/100_1413.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v483/eyecutter/100_1414.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v483/eyecutter/100_1415.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v483/eyecutter/100_1416.jpg

Eye Cutter
10-19-2004, 06:25
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v483/eyecutter/100_1417.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v483/eyecutter/100_1418.jpg

tactical edge 9mm

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v483/eyecutter/100_1419.jpg

Sellier & Bellot 115gr JHP

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v483/eyecutter/100_1420.jpg

Comparing the 2 brands, the S&B did a lot better. The Twin Pines ammo was under loaded and as dogman termed it, were all "supot"

Eye Cutter
10-19-2004, 06:27
ewan ko bakit hindi nag-expand lahat ng S&B ammo. tingin ko dahil si Ivan ang may sala! hahahaha!!!!

9MX
10-19-2004, 10:33
Originally posted by Eye Cutter
ewan ko bakit hindi nag-expand lahat ng S&B ammo. tingin ko dahil si Ivan ang may sala! hahahaha!!!!


right on! better ask dogman to check his rifle for cracks;z

Eye Cutter
01-26-2006, 03:29
;d