Minn. motorcyclist clocked at 205 mph! [Archive] - Glock Talk

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vart
09-21-2004, 23:46
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6064129/

Man arrested after racing with another bikerThe Associated Press
Updated: 12:33 p.m. ET Sept. 21, 2004WABASHA, Minn. - A motorcyclist in Minnesota has been arrested for speeding ó while allegedly going faster than 200 mph.

The speed limit was 65 mph on U.S. Highway 61 near Wabasha. Police say Samuel Tilley was breaking that limit by 140 mph. They say a state patrol pilot who was flying overhead clocked Tilley doing 205 mph while racing with another motorcyclist.

Pilot Al Loney says the bike was traveling nearly twice as fast as his plane. He radioed ahead to another state trooper, who pulled the two cyclists over.

Only the faster one was arrested.

Tilley is charged with reckless driving and driving without a motorcycle license ó in addition to the speeding charge.

Eyespy
09-22-2004, 00:33
clocked Tilley doing 205 mph

Not a chance. The 20 year old was riding an RC51, not a turbo Busa, etc. Still, he was going over 65....

vart
09-22-2004, 01:07
How do you know what bike he was riding? Another source?

If the pilot of the plane said he was going twice as fast as the plane, then hew was definately going very fast; planes can't go too slow or they will stall out. Isn't landing speed for the typical Cessna around 70 mph?

Not disputing your claim, just wondering if you had more insight.;)

chevrofreak
09-22-2004, 03:21
As it is right now I dont believe there is a single stock bike (Y2k excluded) that can go that fast. The Hayabusa was at its fastest in 1999 and it couldnt even do 205.

Eyespy
09-22-2004, 07:00
Originally posted by chevrofreak
As it is right now I dont believe there is a single stock bike (Y2k excluded) that can go that fast. The Hayabusa was at its fastest in 1999 and it couldnt even do 205.

There isn't.

Bullman
09-22-2004, 09:14
But... I have read of bikes that were modified that would do that speed. Clocking someone and writing them up isn't a trivial matter. I would tend to believe the officer because there really isn't any reason to make up stuff like that.

chevrofreak
09-22-2004, 09:55
It takes a hell of a lot of grunt to push a bike that fast. It would need to be a light bike with a light rider and around 200 horsepower, or a large engine that produces massive torque.

Turbo bikes are very common now, though. Pretty much any turbo 900+ CC bike could probably push 200.

Bullwinkle J Moose
09-22-2004, 15:48
Highway 61 Revisited:
Copy of ticket here:
http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/0922042speed1.html

At 205 MPH, Speed Thrills
Minnesota biker cited for driving 140 mph over limit

SEPTEMBER 22--The below Minnesota speeding ticket should be in a museum someplace. That's because motorcyclist Samuel Tilley, 20, was clocked Saturday afternoon going 205 mph on his Honda 1000. That was 140 mph over the limit on U.S. Highway 61. Tilley was clocked at Indy car speeds by a State Patrol pilot flying overhead, stopwatch in hand. The pilot radioed ahead to a state trooper who pulled Tilley over and issued the reckless driving citation. Tilley, the son of a sheriff's deputy, displaces William Faenza at the top of TSG's speediest driver list. Faenza was nabbed last September when Pennsylvania cops clocked him doing 182 mph in his Lamborghini Diablo.

HKMark23
09-22-2004, 17:00
There is a 3 page post on this over in GNG.
Lots of "stuff" about how fast bikes go.... ;Q

chevrofreak
09-22-2004, 18:28
Well, Honda 1000 can mean only one of two bikes that I am aware of. SuperHawk 996 (VTR1000F) or the RC51 (RVT1000) and neither of these can come remotely close to 200 miles per hour. (VTR 150, RVT 170)

BlackPaladin
09-23-2004, 08:57
Chevrofreak the honda cbr 1000rr is what he was riding-I rode with this guy twice in the last 4 months.

for 04 the honda cbr, kawasaki zx10r, yamaha r1, and suzuki gsxr 1000 all have it in them to run over 200+ mph except for a program burnt into 3 or 4 places in the computer system LIMITING sportbikes to 186mph. The Busa and zx 12 ninja are both bikes of the past as the new zx 10r has now around 185 hp FACTORY. I believe that in the road test review of the 10r included something about it being able to do over 100mph in first gear before hitting the rev limiter, and there are 5 more gears to go!
Im not saying that its smart to go that fast BUT hey I plan on reaching the 200mph+ club befor too long myself, Im just gonna do it with the cops on my side

ruglockin?
09-23-2004, 09:22
Moto Gp bikes can barely do 200 mph. Can you say nitrous.

vafish
09-23-2004, 10:27
Fox news article.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,133198,00.html

Lists the actual time the Trooper clocked him. It was only over a 1/4 mile stretch.

I had a stock 2000 Hyabusa to an INDICATED 315 KM/HR (196 mph) when I lived in Australia. No speed limits outside of town and it was a Demo bike. My 1997 CBR1100XX with a Stage 1 jet kit, ignition advancer, air filter, and Yoshimura race exhaust would only do 305 indicated, and the Busa seemed like it went way more than 10 KPH faster when we rode them side by side. But the Blackbird would take the Busa off the line.

Gotta love a place with no speed limits and long straight roads. Just mind the roos, lizards and emu's.

Anyhow,

No one said his bike was stock.

How many sport bike riders do you know that do leave their bikes stock? Everyone I've ridden with quickly puts new pipes on at least. New computer chips, jetting, pipes, turbos, nitrous are all relativly easy mods to make these days.

Unless the trooper is lying about his stop watch reading, or the marks on the pavement aren't 1/4 mile apart like they should be, I'd say the guy was actually doing 205 MPH.

Judging by the troopers statement that the bike suddenly pulled away from the bike he was racing that does make me strongly suspect nitrous was involved. I bet the guy hit the button for the juice and just held on for dear life. Not much else you can do at those speeds.

Eyespy
09-23-2004, 20:59
A 0.5 sec error in use of the stopwatch equates to about a 50mph calculated error in speed in that range. The bike was not going anywhere near 200mph....more like 160-180.

Eyespy
09-23-2004, 21:03
Originally posted by BlackPaladin
Chevrofreak the honda cbr 1000rr is what he was riding-I rode with this guy twice in the last 4 months.



No, he wasn't. It was a 2003 RC51 with a 2 Bros slip-on...

Bullwinkle J Moose
09-24-2004, 05:22
Originally posted by BlackPaladin
Chevrofreak the honda cbr 1000rr is what he was riding-I rode with this guy twice in the last 4 months.

How did you keep up with him? ;f

skorpio
09-26-2004, 23:11
"motoGP bikes can barely do 200mph" cough-bs-cough!

The Duc is pushing upwards of 215, with the RC211V and the M1 fairly close to that. Even the KR3 and that God-awful looking Kawi are 200+ machines.

BTW--as an owner of a RC51 that is modded out the right way (15/41 520, Sato ti, PCII w/ Kyle 11, ect), the v-twin has a hard time seeing over 170mph with a 200+ pound rider. In fact, with the 15/41, I can bump the soft rev limiter with enough road.

vafish
09-27-2004, 05:50
Now that I've found out the bike was an RC-51 I do have my doubts that he was truly going 205.

Do you think as part of his defense they're going to take his bike out to Bonneville and see what it really can do?

ClickClickBoom
09-28-2004, 01:49
RC51s throw down about 120 RWHP on a good day, I don't see it happening. It would take more than a couple 'bolt ons' to pull that off.

Alchemy
09-28-2004, 02:44
Nitrous....Hogwash, It was a collaborative covert operation
between Double Tap & Corbon on the next generation of
powder propellants!

RKC2000
09-28-2004, 16:51
According to the local news here in Minneapolis, the guy is 20 years old. This wasn't even his bike. His father is a sheriff to boot.

Stock Ninja's could (3 years ago) go 197 mph.

Now, this story might have credibility if he was driving a 600 cubic inch Chevy V-8 Boss Hoss that develops over 500 horsepower.

There's one Boss Hoss I saw at a motorcycle show used for racing: NOS, over 1,000 hp and would do 0-100 in 3.5 seconds. This was on a sign next to the bike.

These are two-speeds as well. They estimate that bike as capable of 300 mph.

ClickClickBoom
09-29-2004, 22:05
Too bad a Big Block Boss Hoss weighs about 1300 pounds. I heard they actually use a modified powerglide. And who the hell wants a nearly three-quarter ton pig when Terry Kizer can extract 460+ Horses from a bike that weighs less than half as much?

http://www.mrturbo.com/photo_zx11_2.jpg

chevrofreak
09-30-2004, 01:35
ClickClickBoom those Mr Turbo bikes are definately fast! Ever watched the videos?

fastvfr
10-01-2004, 14:31
The 200+MPH claim would have had a lot more credibility if it had been one of these! (http://motorcyclecity.com/turbine.htm)

Anyhow, the fastest my 800cc VFR has ever been modded to was slightly over 190MPH...and that is plenty damn fast for me!!

It now has about 3 less ponies (put the mirrors back on!) and the last time I opened 'er up it maxed at an indicated 191, which is about 186 per.

My buddy on his 1150RT BMW had been bragging about his 'big' bike, but all that really means in a big comfy Twin is heavy. Even with my taller engine and lowered pegs, he just couldn't swing through the corners low enough to keep the speed up. His Beemer just wanted to go straight, even with me as pilot.

At least on his bike, I could keep up with HIM, though...

Yeah, as far as stock bikes go the Hayabusa and the 1200 Ninja are pretty speedy...but if you are talking about a non-NOS tricked bike, a well-set-up Yamaha R1 is tough to beat in the corners. And it will eat a Honda Blackbird 1100 XX UP.

A 'Busa is sort of like an old Yamaha VMax...hell in a straight line, but too heavy to have a chance in the twisties.

Best regards, and keep the shiny side up!

FastVFR

F14Scott
10-01-2004, 20:57
Originally posted by fastvfr
Anyhow, the fastest my 800cc VFR has ever been modded to was slightly over 190MPH...and that is plenty damn fast for me!!

It now has about 3 less ponies (put the mirrors back on!) and the last time I opened 'er up it maxed at an indicated 191, which is about 186 per.


Every bike I've ever read of breaking even 180 MPH has had over 150 HP at the rear wheel and weighed less than 500 lbs. Stock VFRs have no more than 110 HP and weigh more than 500 lbs.

How did you squeeze 60+ horsepower more out of your 782cc VFR (for an output of more than 2HP/liter)? And, how did you verify your top speeds?

skorpio
10-01-2004, 21:51
Or is your VRF actually an old Freddy Spencer or Colin Edwards II RC45 in disguise?;Q

ClickClickBoom
10-02-2004, 11:56
Originally posted by chevrofreak
ClickClickBoom those Mr Turbo bikes are definately fast! Ever watched the videos?

Yes, those things have so much power it's crazy. Thats why I want one ;f . There were rumors of the Mr.Turbo People making a V-max kit, but it never materialized. I've seen a few custom ones, but most Max guys just go for the Eaton Roots Blower (Yes, on a motorcycle). Now all I need is a first born to sell ;g . Ironically, I found they made turbo kits for KZ1000s right after I sold my KZ1000 and bought the V-max ^2 .

Bullman
10-02-2004, 14:01
Were any of the KZ1000s ever shaft drive?

ClickClickBoom
10-02-2004, 20:24
I don't know about KZ1000s, but I know there was a Shaft Driven KZ1100 (The engine was virtually the same as the 1000).

greenleaf
10-04-2004, 23:27
205mph an rc51? not on this planet. as for the new 1000rr, it is very possible. 1000rrs were in the high 190's around the banks of daytona earlier this year(in superbike trim). spend a grand or two on any of the new liter bikes and you will be bumping 200mph, if not over. my near bone stock 03' gsxr 1k does 188mph easily. no telling what it would do without the limiter in the computer... or a turbo...

gr33n

A GLOCKwork Orange
10-07-2004, 10:02
Wanna see what a bike going nearly 200mph on the street looks like?

http://www.ghostridermovie.net/

Click the link to the trailers.
Word on the bike forums is he's an ex-pro racer. Some vids he's on a modified GSX-R1000 and on some others he's on a Turbo Hayabusa.

---Chris

Tennessee Slim
10-07-2004, 10:31
The eye-in-the-sky hand-timed the bike over a distance of a quarter of a mile. At 205 mph youíd cover a quarter mile in 4.39 seconds. Dealing with such a short period of time, a very small error obviously would produce a substantial error in calculated speed. If anything, however, I suspect the officer would have been too slow on the trigger, meaning 205 mph was too low.

Eyespy
10-08-2004, 01:14
Originally posted by Tennessee Slim
The eye-in-the-sky hand-timed the bike over a distance of a quarter of a mile. At 205 mph youíd cover a quarter mile in 4.39 seconds. Dealing with such a short period of time, a very small error obviously would produce a substantial error in calculated speed. If anything, however, I suspect the officer would have been too slow on the trigger, meaning 205 mph was too low.

Just the opposite. The trigger was pulled too late after the start distance marker, and then too soon in anticipation of the end marker. Result.....grossly exaggerated average velocity calculation. I fail to see how I can word it any clearer than this: The rider was not speeding at 205MPH. It is a physical IMPOSSIBILITY. He was going faster than 65, though.

Bullman
10-08-2004, 09:24
Originally posted by Eyespy
Just the opposite. The trigger was pulled too late after the start distance marker, and then too soon in anticipation of the end marker. Result.....grossly exaggerated average velocity calculation. I fail to see how I can word it any clearer than this: The rider was not speeding at 205MPH. It is a physical IMPOSSIBILITY. He was going faster than 65, though.

Physically impossible you say? I disagree, I believe it is possible. While I would tend to agree with you that this guy was not doing 205, there is enough human interaction with an infallable stop watch and slide rule to make an exact speed a definite, I am thinking the trooper was pretty close. For you to speak with such final resolve is really not very smart on your part, after all, you were not there. I doubt the guy on the bike even had a good idea about how fast he was going with the inaccuracies of motorcycle speedometers the way they are.

Eyespy
10-08-2004, 11:49
Originally posted by Bullman
Physically impossible you say? I disagree, I believe it is possible. While I would tend to agree with you that this guy was not doing 205, there is enough human interaction with an infallable stop watch and slide rule to make an exact speed a definite, I am thinking the trooper was pretty close. For you to speak with such final resolve is really not very smart on your part, after all, you were not there. I doubt the guy on the bike even had a good idea about how fast he was going with the inaccuracies of motorcycle speedometers the way they are.

You may disagree, but that doesn't change the inarguable fact that a 2003 RC51 with a 2Bros slip-on is NOT PHYSICALLY CAPABLE of 205 mph. Just the facts.

Tennessee Slim
10-08-2004, 12:01
Okay, so to hit 205, the RC51 would have to have enough HP, tall enough gearing and low enough drag. Eyespy, in which of those areas do you figure itís incapable of being sufficiently modified to meet the goal?

xrated
10-08-2004, 13:14
It's not a matter of whether or not the bike was modified, it wasn't, with the exception of a set of Two Brothers slip ons. At best, he picked up an additional 4 or 5 HP with that mod. The RC51 WILL NOT run over approx 167MPH in stock form. And believe me, 4 or 5 HP isn't anywhere near enough to get an additional 38 MPH. The LEO screwed up and he is not going to admit it. That would make him a less than creditable witness in court for the rest of his career.

Tennessee Slim
10-08-2004, 16:10
Originally posted by xrated
It's not a matter of whether or not the bike was modified, it wasn't, with the exception of a set of Two Brothers slip ons. At best, he picked up an additional 4 or 5 HP with that mod. The RC51 WILL NOT run over approx 167MPH in stock form....
I havenít seen anything saying it was only modified with slip-ons. In fact, vafish's linked Fox News article quotes some author as speculating it mustíve had $15,000 or so in mods.

As for HP, it would take at least 85% more to go 205 as it would 167. If stock is 120 BHP, it would have to have more than 220 BHP to hit 205. Pretty good mufflers, huh?

Eyespy
10-08-2004, 16:26
Originally posted by Tennessee Slim
Okay, so to hit 205, the RC51 would have to have enough HP, tall enough gearing and low enough drag. Eyespy, in which of those areas do you figure itís incapable of being sufficiently modified to meet the goal?

What is so difficult to understand? A 2003 RC51 with a 2Bros slip-on CANNOT attain 205 mph. Say it with me now....

Tennessee Slim
10-08-2004, 16:44
Originally posted by Eyespy
What is so difficult to understand? A 2003 RC51 with a 2Bros slip-on CANNOT attain 205 mph. Say it with me now....
What youíre saying is that a 2003 RC51 with a 2Bros slip-on cannot otherwise be modified so itís capable of reaching 205 mph. I think what youíre meaning to say is that a 2003 RC51 modified only with a 2Bros slip-on canít reach 205 mph.

A GLOCKwork Orange
10-08-2004, 19:19
What I find to be funny here is that no one has even considered that in addition to having to have the power to attain such a speed, gearing plays just as important a part.

For example, drag racers gear down for better acceleration, while speed racers at the salt flats gear up for top speed. Many of these salt racers really don't have a ton of power but with a high enough gear and plenty of room to let it wind out, speeds in excess of 200mph are quite possible.

---Chris

Eyespy
10-08-2004, 19:33
Originally posted by Tennessee Slim
What youíre saying is that a 2003 RC51 with a 2Bros slip-on cannot otherwise be modified so itís capable of reaching 205 mph. I think what youíre meaning to say is that a 2003 RC51 modified only with a 2Bros slip-on canít reach 205 mph.

What I am saying is that THIS particular rider on THIS particular bike did not attain 205 mph, and furthermore, it was a physical impossibility. I am not talking about some hypothetical RC51 with some hypothetical modifications. He was, however, going over 65....

fastvfr
10-09-2004, 01:14
F14Scott;

Your points about stock VFR's are indeed valid and were probably accurate BEFORE I modded my bike, at which point they were rendered totally invalid and inaccurate.

See, my little VFR has gotten a few added features, which make it Fast:

First, a modified airbox that has even smoother airflow in its current config was installed;

Then the hotter ignition system and thicker plug wires went in;

Can't forget the more aggressive camshafts, the oversized Titanium valves, larger injectors or the machined heads with their chamfered and polished ports;

I installed a specially remapped computer, tuned to the modifications;

I have a set of custom-made high-flow headers feeding my tuned Akropovic can;

This gives me just over 155HP to the rear wheel with the factory-standard sprockets.

But I run with two FEWER teeth in the rear sprocket to make it run a little bit 'tamer' around town, and to keep the wheelspin down somewhat. Still gives my scoot 149HP to the ground, and makes for a higher top speed, of course.

And I am pretty sure it will still do faster than 186 these days, since it was STILL ACCELERATING when I let off the throttle that day.

BTW, a buddy who has a 200-mph radar speed gun (http://www.opticsplanet.net/busspeedrads.html) he measures fastballs and whatnot with timed me; the whole crew spent part of a day making one-mile passes at his electronics on a rarely-travelled bit of Iowa blacktop one spring day.

My bike turned in a 191 with 196 indicated on the speedometer, second-fastest to a Yamaha R-1 modded at the same shop that did mine, who managed 193.

Anyhow, that's why I gave the 5mph decrease from the indicated speed in my previous post...and how I know how fast my bike is. Thanks for asking.

I heard somewhere that the extra wind resistance of the mirrors will rob you of around 3hp...I haven't run it for speed lately, since flat straight roads are a very rare commodity hereabouts, but it still feels mighty strong to me!!

BTW, with a full tank, it weighs right at 503 pounds. And it was below a half-tank on the day of the radar test.

Regards,

FastVFR

F14Scott
10-09-2004, 08:28
FastVFR,

Ya know, when I initially read your post on your top speeds, I almost just posted "B.S." with a ;Q smiley. I guess this gaining maturity with age thing I keep hearing about might actually be happening. Something told me that rather than just call you out, ask some questions that, if you were just some squid, you couldn't answer.

My foresight paid off, as your mods and explainations make sense. Boy, I'd like to see you run that bike sometime. I make it up to Iowa fairly frequently; I was in Cedar Rapids yesterday.

I am curious, though. Why'd you choose the VFR as your platform for your warp-drive? I know why one would choose a VFR generally, as I have a 99 myself. But, if I were going to do the mods you did to a bike, I probably would have been inclined to start with a XX or other litrebike. Seems like with an extra 300-500 CCs, you might have just busted 200 (or 205).

Anyway, cheers and post pics! ;c

Scott

Eyespy
10-09-2004, 10:11
fastvfr,

Many things amiss with your description.

I'll address only a couple. Changing the rear sprocket by going up two teeth does not create the "changes" you claim. Firstly, +2 in back is a lower gearing, for faster acceleration and (usually), a lowered top speed by virtue of the gear reduction ratio. Not "tamer" around town, not "less wheelspin", and not "higher top speed". Secondly, 155RWHP (which is exceptionally unlikely on the VFR) "with stock gearing" does not yield a reduction in RWHP to 149.

It appears that F14Scott's initial gut reaction would have been correct.

fastvfr
10-10-2004, 00:05
Whoops... Late-night posting claims another victim!!

I meant 2 FEWER teeth, guy. Smaller rear sprocket, factory-original sized front. Edit has been performed, chagrin has been felt. Sorry about that!

And those RWHP claims I made are what I saw the Dyno at the hop-up shop turn in, before and after the sprocket swap.

And as far as building up a "Plain Jane" VFR into a Gixxer killer, there were several reasons for that...

First was the fact that I already had one! In late fall 2000, as I was emptying out the carbs in preparation for winter, the bottom end started making a nasty screeching noise in my old '97 VFR750. I figured it was the mains fixing to crap out on me, so I got mad, decided to never own a used bike again, and ordered a new 2001 Viffer to replace it.

The next spring I took delivery and found that the 800cc FI model was almost 20MPH SLOWER than the 750 was!! Pretty good pull in-town, but the limiter just destroyed any hope of keeping up with my faster buddies...you know, for $10K, you expect to get more performance than you got from a bike that cost $4400...

So I started building it up, piece by piece. I didn't even need a steering atabilizer, this bike flies so straight....

Viffers are comfortable, especially with an AM seat; Viffers are agile for their weight, and Viffers have that phat single-sided swingarm that adds stability while allowing for unexcelled responsiveness and feel from the rear shock.

That, and the fact that I have put in so many years in the VFR saddle that all other bikes just feel clumsy, if they are Liter classed, or flimsy, if they are lighter.

I guess I done spoiled myself.

Eyespy, sorry for antagonizing your sense of propriety with my 1AM ramblings last night...I am writing this at a saner hour, in hopes of getting the facts straight...no boozin' tonight, either!

And Scott, yeah, that would be cool but I moved out here to Southwestern Oregon about three years ago! I was originally north of Ames, but man, I hated the mosquitos and I hated 100 degree heat coupled with the 100% humidity, almost as much as I hated enduring the five-month long winters there.

I didn't even GET any snow last winter down here in the Valley; and the Wind Chill got all the way down to 33 degrees one night!!

And this summer, we saw a high of 103...with 11% humidity. It's a dry heat. And summer here lasts from April to the end of October/mid-November hereabouts. That's over TWO MORE MONTHS of cycling!!

Plus I hunt, fish and dredge gold in between gigs fixing PC's and riding; most of those hobbies are unavailable back in the Land of the Stinking Feedlot! So I had to split.

If you ever cruise out West, though, I'll show ya some really fun roads to ride!!

Best regards,

FastVFR

Eyespy
10-10-2004, 00:26
fastvfr,

Ahh...sorry to cause you to type so much. ;f

xrated
10-10-2004, 08:26
FastVFR...I'm not trying to rag on you, but something that maybe you should have considered was the CBR1100XX. Almost identical dry weight to the VFR and gobs more HP. Comfortable seating position (even for an old guy like myself). I've got a '99 (fuel injected model) that put out a stock 138 - 140 HP. With just a set of MIG high-mount slipons and a a PowerCommander II with a custom map, it dynoed 148.2. That is NOT taking into acct. the additional HP that will be gained when the ram air affect kicks in at speed. I've done a RaceTech front spring mod on mine and put a '95 CBR900RR rear shock (fully adjustable) with a RaceTech 16kg. spring on the rear. The suspension is much better than stock (for approx. $250) and the bike's performance is just incredible. I've had the bike on the rear wheel at 115MPH in third gear before. Just some food for thought. :)

chevrofreak
10-10-2004, 11:45
yes, the blackbird is awesome, but, a V4 has one of the sexiest sounds ever!

:)

xrated
10-11-2004, 06:34
yes, the blackbird is awesome, but, a V4 has one of the sexiest sounds ever!

I have to agree on the sound of the V-4, but I didn't buy my bike for sound. I had to have eXXtreme performance numbers and eXXtreme reliability, not to mention, comfort for an old guy in ONE package. This eliminated several other contenders from the group. Ended up with an XX, and probably one of the most reliable bikes on the planet.