The Usefulness of Tactical Lights? [Archive]

shooter226

09-24-2004, 10:52

What's the usefulness of having one of those nifty, frame mounted tactical lights? I mean, they look pretty cool and all, but what use are they to ordinary folks? After all, they are quite costly, for what is basically a small flashlight.

The big advantage is you always have your flashlight and your gun with you. Yea I keep a surefire on the nightstand too, but when I hear a noise I grab the glock.

Remember, no one will believe that you had a good relationship if you accidentally shoot your spouse.

Mark

LSP972

09-24-2004, 11:08

You go from clumsily trying to hold two bulky items and keep them steady (and illuminating what you want lit up), to a solid shooting platform that points (and lights up) where you look. Even the Harries method of separate flashlight employment has its limitations; a gun-mounted light, assuming the switch is right, does away with all of that.

As noted above, it makes an ideal house gun. I don't do the warrior thing anymore, having become an office pogue; but my G-19 service piece with M3 attached sits on my bedside table every night. And the M3 is in my pocket on the rare occasions when I'm out at night working.

I like the M3 better than Glock's offering, but only because the switch on the Glock light will allow you to inadevertently go to full light instead of intermittent. IOW, the M3 switch is momentary one way, full on/full off the other. The Glock light's switch has a momentary and full on detent on each side, so if you're searching using the momentary feature (which is the way to do it), you can accidentally turn the light full on, possibly necessitating a grip shift to turn it off and advertising your presence while fumbling around doing that.

But if I couldn't have an M3, the Glock offering would suffice quite nicely.

mrclean099

09-24-2004, 11:09

Yeah, so they can be useful, I see that.

Still, I don't see why they need to cost $200...

Its just an itty-bitty flashlight that fits onto the end of your pistol. It just provides light. I guess the real question is, why do these things cost so damn much? Is this price gouging of a captive market? I'm waiting for Nite Ize (http://www.action-lights.com/mfg_list-16.asp?bhcp=1) to come out with some kind of adaptor/attachment to hook a mini-Maglite to the end of a pistol/rifle/shotgun. I'm sure something like that wouldn't cost more than $20.

I see their usefulness, I just can't justify dropping around $200 on an item I'll most likely never use. Especially when I already have more than $200 worth of flashlights and lighting accessories around my house.

Thanks,
-Matt C.-

vote Republican

09-24-2004, 11:23

Mini mag attached to your gun:

Bang! Bang! WTF happened to the light? It sure is dark in here.

;f

Also, a separate light gives you some options as to pointing the light. Think turning a left vs. right hand corner with a gun mounted light.

Ditchdoc

09-24-2004, 11:27

$200 is way to much I got my M3 for 110 and you can get the glock light for about $90. Think about it bump the door jam with flashlight in hand and get shot bending down to pick it up. to me it is worth the money to have it all in one package. just my .02

Trebuchet

09-24-2004, 11:29

I don't think I want to point my muzzle at everything I am lighting up. How comfortable would you feel "lighting up" your 5 year old who coudn't sleep.

"only point the muzzle at something you are willing to destroy"

;Q mother in law.. maybe. Son.. nope.

Ditchdoc

09-24-2004, 11:35

It's not a laser,the beam spreads therefor your muzzle does not have to be on the subject. It is in the general area. Also I don't have kids yet so if someone is in my house at night they get the muzzle.

elsolo

09-24-2004, 13:01

Here's another opinion on lights, for what it is worth:

http://www.plusp.com/classroom/lesson13.php

http://www.plusp.com/classroom/lesson28.php

LSP972

09-24-2004, 13:36

Dunno who that guy in the above-referenced links is, but I'll tell you this: while he does make a few valid points, overall he's out of touch; which is a polite way of saying he's full of you-know-what.

I have neither the time nor the inclination to pick apart his arguments, except for this... he missed the MOST important point of the use of lethal force.

And that is... target ID.

'Nuff said.

Darkangel1846

09-24-2004, 13:37

May I ask a question? Why would you clear your house at night in the dark with just a flashlight on the gun? Why wouldn't you just turn on the lights? Secondly,........why would you attempt to clear the house if you believed that an agressor was in your house? Wouldn't you just get behind the bed, with your family, with your gun and cell phone and call the LEOs?
Maybe you could install the clapper so you could turn on all the lights at once.
;z

LSP972

09-24-2004, 14:13

Darkangel, its all about mindset.

Your questions and points are valid. And for most folks and situations involving an active intruder, barricading yourself and waiting for the calvary would be the smart move.

But what about when you're not sure? SOMETHING woke you up; was it the cat? Did that box your daughter casually placed on the kitchen counter fall off? Or is a burglar inside and operating?

Do you want to call the cops, disrupt the neighborhood, and generally look (and feel) like a nervous old woman in the first two scenarios? Do you want to listen for a minute, hear nothing else, then roll over and go back to sleep in the last scenario?

Personally, I want to go see. The gun light allows me to search the house more or less covertly, with good light instantly available (along with the capability to instantly engage a hostile) if needed. Turning on the lights as you go sets you up for an ambush, among other things.

Lots of considerations here, and you could "what if???" until the cows come home. It all boils down to what works for YOU.

GuinnessGlock

09-24-2004, 14:59

I used a light for a brief while... I would reccomend target practice with the light mounted on the gun, as I have found it possible to decres accuracy if you are not used to shooting with it on.

mrclean099

09-24-2004, 17:13

Originally posted by vote Republican
Mini mag attached to your gun:

Bang! Bang! WTF happened to the light? It sure is dark in here.

;f

Also, a separate light gives you some options as to pointing the light. Think turning a left vs. right hand corner with a gun mounted light.

I thought about that right after I posted my last reply. Yeah, a mini-Maglite would probably not withstand recoil. Of course, those lights are pretty tough. Still, I would rather turn on the lights, or use a seperate flashlight that I could point at things without pointing the gun.

Another option is to get a head mounted light like this: Petzl (http://www.petzl.com/petzl/Accueil). These light are fairly bright, and allow you to light up whatever you are looking at, not whatever you are aiming at.

-Matt C.-

Nathan2003

09-24-2004, 17:16

I use an M3 for work on my G22. I paid $88 at www.farmpolicesupply.com

It has come in handy while clearing houses and making arrests. My District is buying us the M6 which will more then likely find its way to my AR or my G23 that sleeps with me. :D Otherwise I have to buy all new holsters and that can be expensive.

They have their values. I was doubtful at first but its nice to have the whole thing right there when you need it.

gary newport

09-24-2004, 17:52

I have an M3 mounted on whichever Glock is playing the role of "bedside gun" that night. I also have a 3 C-cell Maglight by the bed. I consider the Maglight as my "primary" and the gun-mounted light as my "backup". In particular, the Maglight can be used to identify something WITHOUT pointing a gun at that something.

Why not just turn on the lights? Well, for one thing, the Bad Guy(s) may have cut your power. For another, darkness can be your friend; it is YOUR home and you know it well, while it is unfamiliar territory to an invader. Finally, shining a bright light in an invader's dark-adapted eyes is going to mess up his vision for a brief time. You may be able to use that brief time to your advantage.

MikeyT

09-24-2004, 18:45

Originally posted by mrclean099

Another option is to get a head mounted light like this: Petzl (http://www.petzl.com/petzl/Accueil). These light are fairly bright, and allow you to light up whatever you are looking at, not whatever you are aiming at.

Think from the point of view of an armed aggressor, when confronted by someone with a flashlight in the dark you're going to shoot for the light - sure you want that light on your forehead?

WDN

09-24-2004, 19:50

Originally posted by Darkangel1846
Wouldn't you just get behind the bed, with your family, with your gun and cell phone and call the LEOs?

Uhmm, My whole family does not sleep in the same room and I don't think most families do. Most people have to move from room to room to get to their whole family. Fortunately when I've remodeled a little bit, I changed some walls and doors so I can always get to my kids first but not everyone has a house layout that will work that way. Every year when I take some training and this subject comes up, some leo in the crowd always says, "don't go moving about your house if you hear something, lock your wife and yourself in the room". Like nobody has kids or other family around the house.
The one thing I use is the X 10 system (http://www.x10.com) . I control all of the lights on the main floor with a Palm Remote (http://www.x10.com/automation/hr12a_s_tr_ps4.html) I attached a little rope to it so I can hang it around my neck if I need to. They also have Motion sensors (http://www.x10.com/automation/ms14a_s.html) that I use at night as security. When they are set off, an electric chime goes off in my bedroom and a room light comes on in the opposite direction of my bedroom hopefully to confuse them and make them a silhouette if I have to shoot. Different lights come on deppending on sensor location. This stuff can be real cheap if you look for the sales.

BTW, I use the Glock light. Cost $80.

avine

09-24-2004, 23:44

Few thugs get swat training. Yes, highly trained individuals might pose a threat but you should not shoot at what you can not see. Where I live a guy shot his wife because he didn't have enough light and I remember a story of a guy shooting his kid that he thought was staying the night at a friends house. I always laugh about the stay in wait plan. Wait for what? Will the cops even show up? As for the turn on the lights plan. You are going to take your hand off your gun and fumble around for the switch? The light is another tool you use to control the situation. Comparing a surefire to a flashlight tells me you have not seen the Light;)

Surefire, the first flashlight with stun.

Iceman 27

09-25-2004, 04:24

Originally posted by GuinnessGlock
I used a light for a brief while... I would reccomend target practice with the light mounted on the gun, as I have found it possible to decres accuracy if you are not used to shooting with it on.

Do you think the light can be used as a barrel counter weight in competition situation?

I don't do the Navy Seal thing anymore...used to prepared for everything including all the gear for self-defense at night etc or assult an enemy position...but now guess all the presumed situation never happen and self defense with a gun is not legal anymore in Australia so...

I have to admit that the M3 or the M6 looks great and cool for the accessory rail on the Glock but I guess the only use would be a couter weight for the barrel...

After reading this thread, I think I might get one of those rail mounted red dot mounts and put on a C-More instead because over the years (15 years shooting pistols for social competiton), I guess I learned to get somehting useful instead of the 'cool' factor...;f I mean if I can use my Glock for self defense then that's another story, besides, I think if I use the M3 as a barrel counter weight, I think my fellow club members might laugh at me! ;b

Me&MyG23

09-25-2004, 07:52

Originally posted by mrclean099
I thought about that right after I posted my last reply. Yeah, a mini-Maglite would probably not withstand recoil. Of course, those lights are pretty tough. Still, I would rather turn on the lights, or use a seperate flashlight that I could point at things without pointing the gun.

I see your point about checking out other things without pointing the gun at them. But to take the time to go through the house flipping switches just gives the BG the upper hand IMO.

Another option is to get a head mounted light like this: Petzl (http://www.petzl.com/petzl/Accueil). These light are fairly bright, and allow you to light up whatever you are looking at, not whatever you are aiming at.

Personally, I think that head light is an absolute no-no! Tactical lights have a nice tailcap that allows for a quick on and off, or steady on if needed. This is a good thing because it allows you to use the darkness to your advantage to observe if need be. IMO, you are a deadman walking with that light strapped on your peanut. Are you going to fumble for the on off switch?

I would much rather trust my life to a better light. Think about it!

mrclean099

09-26-2004, 13:25

Okay, so the general consensus here is that the most useful, civilian application of a rail mounted tactical light is for home defense at night. That's fair, I'll admit that's about the only real use I see for one of these things. In my situation, a weapon mounted light makes little difference due to the ambient light in my small apartment. If I don't hear the intruder coming through the front door, I'm in trouble no matter what's sitting on my nightstand.

So, has anybody ever used a weapon mounted light in such a situation? What about professionals? I've also seen some glove/wrist mounted flashlights in my recent searches that work in the same capacity. What are some viable (and cheaper) alternatives to getting a rail mounted light?

Another thing to all you guys who share a bed at night. What does your sleeping partner do in the event of a hostile break in? Why can't you get your partner to hold a light and back you up? Maybe even back you up with another weapon (with its own mounted light, even). :)

Thanks for all the replies,
-Matt C.-

AZRob

09-26-2004, 14:15

Originally posted by mrclean099
Another thing to all you guys who share a bed at night. What does your sleeping partner do in the event of a hostile break in? Why can't you get your partner to hold a light and back you up? Maybe even back you up with another weapon (with its own mounted light, even). :)

As you can see from the avatar, I like my light. I bought it for clearing houses since you otherwise need three hands (1. to open doors, 2. for the gun, 3. for a flashlight).

Ref. using your sleeping partner as a tactical partner, there are many problems with this. They boil down to training. If you and your sleeping partner practice house clearing skills and shooting side-by-side in confined spaces together -- a lot -- then it's probably OK. I want my sleeping partner preparing to get the kids out and calling PD.

On another note, a gun-mounted light shouldn't replace a small flashlight - each has its own strength. For example, if you do take down an intruder at gunpoint, you will want to be able to scan in other directions with a flashlight to look for other intruders without taking your aimpoint and light away from the first guy. You can also use it where you don't want to point your muzzle.

Good topic!

Subpusher

09-27-2004, 23:39

A weapon mounted light might be overkill for a home defense situation but a good light is manditory. I carried my surefire G-6Z on my last cruise. The Enlisted department Master Chief decided to light me up with his 8D cell maglight from the other side of the compartment, but didn't want to play anymore when I returned the favor. Maglight do not compare in anyway to surefire lights in terms of light output. A maglight will not force someone to close there eyes in a room that has light in it a surefire will.

Nathan2003

09-28-2004, 10:41

As a professional they are great for clearing houses and making arrests. I also carry an Surefire 6P on my belt. You never can have TO MANY flashlights.

For home defense its just nice to have the whole thing in one spot. With my alarm system though, you can't move in my house without it going off. :)

That to me is the best defense.

Iceman 27

09-28-2004, 16:45

Originally posted by Nathan2003
As a professional they are great for clearing houses and making arrests. I also carry an Surefire 6P on my belt. You never can have TO MANY flashlights.

For home defense its just nice to have the whole thing in one spot. With my alarm system though, you can move in my house without it going off. :)

That to me is the best defense.

Damn man! You shouldn't let the criminals know this!!! ;)