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antediluvianist
09-25-2004, 04:57
Not really related to guns, except that this situation screws up my buy-a-gun-at-the-November-gunshow plan : but I just want to share with you, my fellow Pinoys, that in a GOCC in which I am a director- 1) the top officers and directors have taken 60% paycuts (and it wasn't all that much to begin with - only a few of the GOCCs, mainly NAPOCOR, PAGCOR and the Govt. Financial Institutions- actually pay their staff a lot); 2) in board meetings, coffee and sandwiches are no longer served ; 3) the staff will not get their usual Christmas gratuity, nor will there be any Christmas office party (I feel bad about the rank and file- the janitors won't get Christmas gratuity? oh God). (Does my GOCC contribute money to the government ? Oh hell yes, billions net positive.)

Actually, guys, it's only NAPOCOR and a few other GOCCs that account for the great majority of GOCC losses. But all of us GOCCs got hit by draconian slashes. Unfair? Eh.

Times are tough for all of us; just want you guys to know that people who work for government corporations are really making sacrifices at this time, and apparently indefinitely into the future.Saddest thing is that even with these sacrifices, and heavier taxes and other measures, this country will still probably not make it.

Allegra
09-25-2004, 05:38
You think it's hopeless?

New_comer
09-25-2004, 06:10
Saddest thing is that even with these sacrifices, and heavier taxes and other measures, this country will still probably not make it. Make it where? We're still not seeing famine and pestilence in the countryside, nor anarchy in the streets, the same way Ethiopia or Sudan suffered through when their systems went haywire.

Cheer up! A little optimism would be useful right now, ante...

Aren't you glad those crooked politicos and GOCC directors are ratting it out on each other. Nahuhuli din pala sa bibig yung mga big fish. Pati Magdalo, yuyuko din pala.

On the contrary, I see a bit of moral recovery in the works, now don't you agree? ;):cool:

julianz
09-25-2004, 06:15
i feel the same way,on whats happening over their,those politicians are really screwing up our country.The do gooders end up getting killed or migrating to other countries ..is there hope? ..yes i believe there is, we need the following.
a. STRICT implementation of the law no white elephant system
b. Strenghten the military for better security to encourage investor.
c. Firing squad must be the capital punishment not lethal injection.
**** those human rights **** heads.
d. Total independence for the Muslim south ..if they want to have a
separate state give them what they want let them live on what they got.If anyone crosses the border shoot them.
e. Support our local producers and inventors.
f. Scrutinize and increase taxation on imported goods..EXCEPT GUNS.
e. Spend more time and money on the development of our natural resourses .
g. We need a good leader..any candidate? cant seem to find one.

If all or at least (a) is implemented we will not be in a precarious situation..by the way dont tax OFW ..the heartaches and pain we are expiriencing is more than enough to deal with..we keep the $ coming in we are keeping the country alive.

Oops got carried away ..ante this is your thread sir i apologize it just sickens me why this things happen.

antediluvianist
09-25-2004, 06:55
"we keep the $ coming in we are keeping the country alive."

Of course you are absolutely right, Julianz. The inward dollar remittances of OFWs keep this country alive.

By "not making it", I mean a considerable degradation in living standards. True we are not like Sudan and Ethiopia, but well, that's very extreme. The Sudan is sand.

A quite possible/probable local scenario in 3-4 years: borrowers must pay 25% interest or more (in other words not many businesses or individuals can profitably borrow at those high rates, meaning there will be a slow-down in the production of goods and services, and businesses will close,leading to even higher unemployment than now; the peso depreciates to at least P90 to $1 , making essential items like antibiotics (almost all imported) extremely expensive and out of reach of the vast majority of the population - same for treatment using MRIs and all hi-tech medical equipment/machines (payment for dialysis treatment, for instance, willbecome prohibitively expensive - the consumables involved are all imported); even less provision of essential services by the government (for instance to educate children, to provide water to the people) , because there just won't be any funds for same - even more of our national budget than now will be committed to paying off accumulated foreign debt; in spite of more tax laws, tax collections will decrease because of less income being made by all companies and by everybody; more crime, etc. etc.

There will always be an upper-middle class and a wealthy class, and for these people life will continue to be reasonably good. Essentially all people on this forum are in those classes . Indeed, just as for the "Jobo Bills" (the Central Bank used to offer 40% interest rates in the last years of the Marcos era), people with savings will be able to rake in good interest rate returns, while poor people - 85% of the country - lose their jobs as their employers fail. Exacerbation of the Rich vs Poor gap. Can go on but we all got the picture.
Our government just cannot keep incurring budget deficits and borrowing money to cover these deficits. Debts, and payments needed to repay these debts, accumulate. We have gotten to the end of being able to simply borrow more, that's what's new. We will only "make it", if we reverse that practice, and it isn't likely. A mass of debt will fall due in the period 2008-2012.

Eye Cutter
09-25-2004, 07:03
ante: please excuse my ignorance about the economic and political situation of the Phil. these days. I'm just too busy with my clinical work and my hobby, shooting.

among all the GOCC's which earn a profit and contribute to the national coffers? why is Napocor so deep in debt? how come gov't sticks its nose in so many unecessary issues?

Eye Cutter
09-25-2004, 08:29
http://images.inq7.net/news/templates/comics/alip.gif

New_comer
09-25-2004, 11:07
(Does my GOCC contribute money to the government ? Oh hell yes, billions net positive.)

among all the GOCC's which earn a profit and contribute to the national coffers? why is Napocor so deep in debt? how come gov't sticks its nose in so many unecessary issues?
Pagcor earns, so does Petron/PNOC. Napocor is sucking us dry. The inutile Bataan Plant still bleeds our coffers to a tune of $300,000+ a day! Bah, e higit kinse milyones araw araw?

Me solusyon naman yan e. Dapat yon hulugan na lang ng bomba para mag-claim na lang ng insurance! Ginagatasan na lang tayo ng Westinghouse nyan, wala namang silbi.

Despite these fiascos, I still believe in the pinoy spirit. We were able to recover from WW2, to become the #2 economy in asia in the 50's and 60's. Look at Vietnam: they've got their act together and their economy is about to break through, and we're not even close to where they were 20 years ago.

If only WE could get our own act together... ;)

bulm540
09-25-2004, 11:29
Originally posted by New_comer
Make it where? We're still not seeing famine and pestilence in the countryside, nor anarchy in the streets, the same way Ethiopia or Sudan suffered through when their systems went haywire.

Cheer up! A little optimism would be useful right now, ante...

Aren't you glad those crooked politicos and GOCC directors are ratting it out on each other. Nahuhuli din pala sa bibig yung mga big fish. Pati Magdalo, yuyuko din pala.

On the contrary, I see a bit of moral recovery in the works, now don't you agree? ;):cool:
Ditto on that one.

antediluvianist
09-25-2004, 19:17
Eye Cutter asked : "why is Napocor so deep in debt? "

Napocor has not charged what it should to break even on power generation. The government, for political reasons, capped what power producers could charge. This was done with particular effect in 2002. Therefore NAPOCOR has not been operating on even a breakeven basis, and certainly cannot pay its tremendous debts. That's why the government- in other words you and I- has absorbed these tremendous debts.

Ultimately electricity rates - which were artificially kept down for political reasons (so as not to anger the masses, especially in a runup to an election) - must rise now, and in fact significant increases in electricity rates have been announced. A SERIES of increases.

In other words, our economic situation is even worse than most people think - Filipinos have not been paying as high as they should have been paying for electricity. They will very shortly pay substantially more. This has already been announced.

Furthermore, the lousy way that the electricity situation has
been treated in this country does not make any investors terribly interested in investing in more electrical generation capacity. Hence tthe necessary investments in electricity-generating capacity - to keep pace with population growth if nothing else - are not occurring. So there will be power shortages starting late next year in various parts of the country (has laready happened in parts of the Visayas.) It takes 2 years to setup new power generation capacity. It's not being done. Looking at the record, investors in power generation don't get a decent enough return so why should they put up more capacity?

Ultimately we all have to pay substantially more than we do now for electricity, or else no one will invest in equipment to generate it. We have to pay more, and businesses/factories have to pay more. That means a reduction in our standard of living as there all of us will have less money available for all other household expenditures (food, clothing, housing,the education of our kids, etc.)

And to those who say we should have a positive attitude and that we have survived World War II etc. - well of course we will SURVIVE. Africa SURVIVES. But that's not enough. We don't want a deteriorating standard of living for our children. All the signs point to that, however , and the strict measures being taken now by our government are our LAST chance to prevent our debt from accumulating to such a high level that only drastic remedies - destructively very high interest rates and a shocking depreciation of the peso - will be left.

Regarding just unilaterally refusing to pay our foreign debt (for the Westinghouse power plant or whatever) - if we do that the results would be worse. No Letters of credit from Philippine banks would be honored abroad (this happened to Indonesia when they had their financial problems), Philippine assets abroad would be subjected to legal proceedings for seizure, nobody would exchange pesos - no , we live among nations and depend on foreigners for so many essential things, we could not survive like that.

So, yes, let's keep fighting on by all means - I'm nor saying we give up; but from a realistic point of view, the future is not good at all. One reason to buy guns is to have them as theft and other forms of criminality increases. They will also - at least the quality firearms - keep their value better than cash.

Hermo Gut
09-25-2004, 19:54
I totally agree with Ante. It's scary but we don't have much choice.Lets all keep working honestly,sacrifice if needed, and hope for the best to come.

Cheer up Ante, you're a lot better still (financially) than most of us here.Makakatawid din tayo sa krisis.Fight, fight, fight..... :)

jundeleon
09-26-2004, 00:56
Hindi dapat nagkaganito ang Pilipinas kung nanalo ang presidente ko, si Eddie Gil. Edi sana nabayaran na lahat ng utang ng Pilipinas, pati na siguro utang ko sa citibank and hsbc! Maski bouncing check pambayad nyan, at least mababayaran. Bahala na ADB, World Bank, and other lending institutions maghabla sa kanya. BP22 lang naman yan.

But they say talagang ganyan ang life.

We pinoys are a special specie of survivors. We survived Marcos, lived with Cory, muntik nang umasenso with FVR, and sumugal with Erap. With GMA, at least we are still breathing.

For realists like me, the only solution I see for the Philippines is what john lennon always said, and that's "Starting over."

We BOGs can take the lead: Lets nuke the entire Philippines and wipe out all our countrymen, except the Viva Hot Babes and Eddie Gil.

Then we BOGs and VHBs can go out and propagate a neo-pinoy society, suot lang ay bikini and cr speed holsters and oakley shades.

Now who will mate with Eddie Gil?

antediluvianist
09-26-2004, 03:23
"Now who will mate with Eddie Gil?"

May I suggest Miriam Defensor Santiago? The products of their genes will surely be powerful and/or weird enough to dominate the world and/or destroy it.

julianz
09-26-2004, 07:58
[We BOGs can take the lead: Lets nuke the entire Philippines and wipe out all our countrymen, except the Viva Hot Babes and Eddie Gil.

taking your point as an example, I remember this CHINOY business man.( a friend of a relative) said " In order to improve the Phil economy we need to get rid of the useless ..non-productive people who the government are spending too much money and not helping the economy. According to him this was used by the REDs in Russia/China dont know if it is true but he has a point.
Why do we have to spend money to unproductive individuals for instance: convicts, street walkers( taong graza), street protesters( who are spending time yapping complaining and not trying to get decent jobs pag na hospitalize shoulder pa ng government ang expenses.
kahit sino ang nakaupo laging may protesta.Kung walang trabaho sa maynila umuwena lang sa probinsya at ng di makasikip sa kalsada. This will send a good signal to investors .just make sense out of my non-sense.

9MX
09-26-2004, 08:25
Originally posted by jundeleon
Now who will mate with Eddie Gil?

eh di si madame auring;)

i'll shoot him if he gets anywhere near the VHBs ..heck I'll shoot anyone for that!LOL!;z ;f

mikol
09-26-2004, 09:23
Originally posted by antediluvianist
"Now who will mate with Eddie Gil?"

May I suggest Miriam Defensor Santiago? The products of their genes will surely be powerful and/or weird enough to dominate the world and/or destroy it.


;z ;5 ;z ;) ;)

mikol
09-26-2004, 09:28
Originally posted by 9MX
eh di si madame auring;)


;P ;z ;z eh di.. dadami mga manghuhula.;f

revo
09-26-2004, 12:23
When a problem gets to be this big, the people at the very top should accept responsibility and basically resign.

SMBeerDealer
09-26-2004, 19:53
This is one point I try hard to get across to people so please try to bear with me. :)

One of the reasons we find it hard to recover is that people are always practicing austerity. "Pagtitipid" is good to a point but it comes to a point that it only helps in the decline of the economy and the standard of living of everyone when it is practiced too much. Take the example of companies cutting advertising expenses. It is true that this is always the first part of any business that gets budget cuts, but look at what it has done on the small advertising firms. Several have already closed shop and the others have laid off employees. Now, isn't it going to be harder for those people to get jobs, as unemployment rises, so does poverty. Let's take the lay man. If he should save his money and stop buying pork and opt for fish instead, what happens to the hog raiser? Where will he get money to then feed his family, pay for his kid's education, etc. There are zillions of examples of this cycle going on. The point is, we have to spend to make our economy work. Like if we shooters cut our practice/competitions in half, the gun industry, particularly the ammo manufacturers would suffer. They in turn would have to make their own budget cuts and affect the income of some other group of people, or worse increase their prices to be able for their businesses to survive. And, this applies to all industries. It is a vicious cycle but it is a cycle we can reverse.

Let me be the first to admit that I myself save for a rainy day but I also do my part in keeping the economy going with my expenditures. I believe that we shouldn't save to much because there might come a time that because of our pagtitipid, all prices will just skyrocket further and our savings wouldn't count for very much.

Just a thought I'd like to share with you guys. Let's all do our part and hope for the best. :)

Valor1
09-26-2004, 20:08
I agree with you SMBeerDealer. You have to throw a sprat to catch a mackerel. I remember when I was working in a telecoms company. We kept on telling our President that we are only having revenues because of savings. As in the profit less expenses equation. If you just minimize the expenses without changing anything, you will have higher profit. The profit which is caused only by saving on expenses. THis is the typical scenario with most companies nowadays. Some gung-ho companies will simply increase the expenses to increase profit. They spend a million to generate 10 million pesos in sales. Others will simply cut on expenses without getting new sales or customers. In fact, one of the best things to do in an economy like ours is for the government to spend.

riddler
09-26-2004, 20:35
Originally posted by SMBeerDealer
One of the reasons we find it hard to recover is that people are always practicing austerity. "Pagtitipid" is good to a point but it comes to a point that it only helps in the decline of the economy and the standard of living of everyone when it is practiced too much. :)

You sir are a genius!!!!

I always wonder why the US economy is so strong. After living here for more than a decade, I finally was able to figure out how they do it. Americans are just so darn wasteful.... yes....WASTEFUL.

A simple but funny example is Supersized French Fries. Most Americans buy it but a good number of them don't even finish it. In the meantime, demand for potatoes goes up, which leads to better prices, which leads to more profit for farmers, which leads for more investment for farming equipment which in turns leads to more production. The farmers are able to hire more farm workers which means more people will be able to shop at the malls. Shops will sell more which makes demand of their wares go up which will cause another cycle like that above.........

In every step of the way, the government gets its fair share of the profit through taxes........ and all because people supersize their fries.

Now apply this analogy to everything from paper clips to cars!!

cznayr
09-26-2004, 23:45
Sir Ante, the only bad thing about the austerity measures that are being implemented is that while the line agencies as a whole are doing it, the foreign assisted projects are exempted from it and to think that we are spending loans worth millions of dollars. In the project that I'm involved with, we still have meetings in hotels and we usually stay in the hotels if it were a 3-day seminar. I remember one seminar where the participants actually stayed for a whole month.

Our phone bill reached 120,000 pesos (one line only). The objective of our project is to spend the remaining balance as the project accomplishment would be based on amounts disbursed. The project is about to end by september and yet we will still procure another set of equipment (computers etc.) for an amount of 1.4M.

and I'm just talking about one foreign assisted project. You could imagine why are we so much buried in our debts. We are paying expatriates at a rate of 2Million pesos per month for the team leader
which is a job that a Filipino could do.

But since that the loan agreement would require us to hire a consultancy group that should be nationals of the lending institution's country we can't do anything about it. It's just a way of generating income for their companies. Imagine, it's their money but when we borrow it should be now the Philippine's right? But we should spend most of our loans to consultants from their country.

Nagkautang na nga tayo na may interes, parang bumalik pa sa kanila yung pera :soap: Just ranting off mga sirs

Eye Cutter
09-27-2004, 00:00
Ok pala yung link nang comic strip ng inquirer. it changes everyday!

antediluvianist
09-27-2004, 03:02
cznayr, oh yes you are right about the foreign consultants. What a racket.

My co-employees and I are sure that the Japanese bidders met in Japan and "coordinated" their bids so as to maximize the amounts that would come out, and they agreed who would win, and some of the money was then split among the "losing" bidders. That's the Japanese way.
Also, the materials were slanted towards items that give them the biggest profit in Japan.

BinLurking
09-28-2004, 11:59
Here's something for you.

bulm540
09-28-2004, 18:55
Where's the wine?

New_comer
09-28-2004, 19:14
^8 ???

BinLurking
09-28-2004, 21:03
Originally posted by bulm540
Where's the wine? w(h)ine is in page 1.

New_comer
09-28-2004, 22:52
Ohhh... ;e ^c

bulm540
09-29-2004, 06:25
Originally posted by BinLurking
w(h)ine is in page 1.
Ditto..

antediluvianist
09-29-2004, 08:58
Oh how clever.

New_comer
09-29-2004, 09:38
Despite Manufacturing Slowdown…Government Confident Economy Will Post 5.5-5.9% Growth 9/29/04

The government is confident that the economy will post a 5.5-5.9 percent growth in the second semester of 2004 despite an expected slowdown in manufacturing, construction and utilities due to the impact of rising oil prices and interest rates, according to Socioeconomic Planning Secretary Romulo L. Neri. >> more
… more here: http://www.neda.gov.ph/ads/press_releases/pr.asp?ID=482
See... It ain't so bad... ;)

And those NEDA think tank hadn't considered the economic activity this coming gunshow in November will generate! :cool:

Allegra
09-30-2004, 06:59
Originally posted by BinLurking
w(h)ine is in page 1.


hahaha good one