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julianz
09-29-2004, 04:19
For BOGS or shooters lurking who are in to shooting OPEN divisions.

i was watching race cars history (formula)on discovery channel
last night . What really facinates me is how race cars had develope over the years from funny looking maseratis to the Formula 1 type cars.
Formula 1 race cars are rocket science, aero dynamically designed to reduce drag and has inverted wing at the front to keep from turning over at 300-400 plus kms/ hour,the frame are made from light composite materials making it light and so quick to repair during pit stops . Engines are compact made of super alloy that can produce maximum horsepower that fits in a tiny space behing the driver's cockfit ..the engine parts are so small than the standard road cars.. making it literally DISPOSABLE after a race..to make the story short..Race cars are so designed to be fast ,light, easilly accessible for repairs to get that edge of winning a race.

Now my question if this type of technology; applied to open pistols? does open pistol parts end up in the garbage bin ? or at the junkshope?
In my small knowledge of open guns . It is lightweight , compensated/ported that reduces recoil , ergonomically designed for fast draw ,aided by state of the art sights for easy target aquisition and extended barrels design making it more accurate than the standard and production pistols.
For open guners out there how often do you change parts?, how often do you send your babies to the smiths ? how much do you need to keep your Open pistols in race condition. Do you keep extra parts with you and how fast can you do minor repairs at the range..do you have to be a smith and a shooter at the same time to be in to open shooting?

Thanks in advance and shoot well.

mc_oliver
09-29-2004, 18:55
Parts-wise an open gun is no different from a standard gun except the comp and optics. Built right and with quality parts, you'll only probably be doing spring replacements every several K rounds. ;)

ogiebb
09-29-2004, 19:09
i just started shooting open these few months (hinde pa nga classified e)...i think the equipment race has stopped eto na siguro yung magiging standard...c more scopes has dominated the scope market and STI and SVI rule now VC caspian and para frames its just a matter of designs and cosmetics na lang siguro...and caliber nga pala the once hailed king caliber of open na 38 super ay napalitan na ng 38 supercomp and 9 major..so in the end wala na masyadong tapon na parts.if you get a very good gunsmith to build your open gun it may last longer than any other limited or production gun...my gunsmith's (Derek)gun is almost 70,000 rounds fired and its still tight as hell!!!;P no finish and still in the white ...now thats what i call a good fit:) ...siguro pag dating daw ng 100k or when accuracy suffers na saka lang siya mag fit ng bagong barrel and rat rat na naman ulit..;)

9MX
09-29-2004, 19:15
Originally posted by ogiebb
i...and caliber nga pala the once hailed king caliber of open na 38 super ay napalitan na ng 38 supercomp and 9 major..so in the end wala na masyadong tapon na parts.


i'm not well versed on open guns, so i apologize in advance for any stupid questions that i will ask:

if 9mm would be the chosen caliber:

slide/barrel can't be ported anymore to meet required PF?
any given disadvantage vs. the supercomp .38?
iirc, 9mm shells have a shorter lifespan (reloads) compared to super .38?

TIA
:)

ogiebb
09-29-2004, 19:25
Originally posted by 9MX
i'm not well versed on open guns, so i apologize in advance for any stupid questions that i will ask:

if 9mm would be the chosen caliber:

slide/barrel can't be ported anymore to meet required PF?
any given disadvantage vs. the supercomp .38?
iirc, 9mm shells have a shorter lifespan (reloads) compared to super .38?

TIA
:)


actually the only reasion why i went to 9mm is because of brass price ..and ayaw ko na kasi makipag agawan sa pag pulot ng brass.. with 9mm ok na yun TY na lang...he he

but if i was going to shoot open back home the best would be 38 supercomp kasi pwede mo gamitin yung brass over and over again....9mm and 38 super comp are both rimless and give more round capacity than 38 super....about the slide and barrel they can still be ported to make major..medyo mas "hot" nga lang dapat yung load mo and you got to make the comp work...another thing about the barrel is pwede ka magpalit ng caliber .355 halos naman lahat yan e ....reamer lang ang katapat

doctabako
09-29-2004, 23:48
I know 38 Super is quite plentiful here , but is 38 Supercomp readily available in the Philippines? Just curious as I have yet to come across an open shooter using them(then again I know very few open gun shooters).

mc_oliver
09-30-2004, 00:36
Doc if I'm not mistaken yung supercomp eh yung Armscor rimless tawag nila. Pahirapan din sa basyo just like the 40's.

9mx, kulitin na natin si shihan dun sa open 9 project niya. But hold-off muna purchase ng armscor till sa gunshow this Nov. Balita ko upgraded yung mga bago'ng frames, wala'ng butas at bilog na. ;) Sana tutoo.

doctabako
09-30-2004, 03:30
Originally posted by mc_oliver
Doc if I'm not mistaken yung supercomp eh yung Armscor rimless tawag nila. Pahirapan din sa basyo just like the 40's.


Okay, if its availability is just like .40's I guess that's still okay. Can a gun chambered for 38 Super accept 38 supercomp or do you have to do some modifications? Thanks:)

julianz
09-30-2004, 03:41
It's really an advantage as i see it, for shooters in Europe , US,Israel and other countries where sports shooting is generally accepted.. lots of manufacturers, lots of parts lots of competent smiths and cheaper rates of everything. They can modify, change parts as often as they want to get that extra edge of winning .

comparing to what we have in PI its a long way to go but im positive we will get there ..we just have to use or improvise and make things work ..dyan magaling ang Pinoy di ba guys.

one last question .in your so....# of years of competition ..which is more challenging to use ..out of the box pistols or the customize open type?

thanks again and keep it coming guys im learning new things everyday.

mc_oliver
09-30-2004, 04:49
Originally posted by doctabako
Okay, if its availability is just like .40's I guess that's still okay. Can a gun chambered for 38 Super accept 38 supercomp or do you have to do some modifications? Thanks:)
Mey konti'ng tweaking sa extractor to be able to grab the rimless case. Pero yung mga tinanong ko said that kung gumana extraction sa rimless usually gagana na rin for the rimmed type.

one last question .in your so....# of years of competition ..which is more challenging to use ..out of the box pistols or the customize open type?
Trigger and the way the gun fits your hand have the most profound effect in your shooting. As long as 'di nagja-jam yung baril, enough practice with it usually is the key to shooting good with it. When I started with the glock I thought the polished trigger was already good. Nung naka 1911 na ako, para'ng ayoko na bumalik (Ask 9mx what he felt nung sinubukan nya 1911 ko, kahit major load ;f). ;)

The pitfall of the out-of-the-box gun is it's reliability. If it doesn't run, you get disappointed and you no longer want to use it. Unless part of the challenge is tinkering...;f

9MX
09-30-2004, 05:28
Originally posted by mc_oliver
(Ask 9mx what he felt nung sinubukan nya 1911 ko, kahit major load ;f). ;)

The pitfall of the out-of-the-box gun is it's reliability. If it doesn't run, you get disappointed and you no longer want to use it. Unless part of the challenge is tinkering...;f

hehe, mc_o's blaster felt like an STI;z

mc_o,

kahit out of the box, in the box, you're fingers can't help to do the tinker;f

ogiebb
09-30-2004, 07:59
one last question .in your so....# of years of competition ..which is more challenging to use ..out of the box pistols or the customize open type?

totoy pa po ako pag dating sa competition...but i ve shot almost every other pistol for comp (bianchi style to ipsc to IDPA BOWLING pin etc)..."iron sights" is still the most challenging of all and in my book the "REAL DEAL " IPSC shooting....its funny that marami ako kilalang open shooters na Master class pero pag dating sa standard o limited mga c class or b....

9MX
09-30-2004, 08:04
Originally posted by mc_oliver

9mx, kulitin na natin si shihan dun sa open 9 project niya.

hehe oo nga;z

ogiebb,

thanks for the feeback

:cool:

julianz
09-30-2004, 09:41
ogiebb, kung totoy ka - fetus pa lang ako in this discipline ;f

and i agree with you i have a friend who shoots open but he finds it difficult to aim by iron sights as well . siguro its a matter of getting use to or sa tagalog eh gamayan lang talaga kung ano gamit mo.

thanks guys

doctabako
09-30-2004, 12:04
Originally posted by mc_oliver
Mey konti'ng tweaking sa extractor to be able to grab the rimless case. Pero yung mga tinanong ko said that kung gumana extraction sa rimless usually gagana na rin for the rimmed type.


So if you have your gun set-up for 38 Supercomp and brass is scarce you can still use 38 Super as an alternative. The use of an Aftec extractor would probably simplify this set-up. Thanks a lot. :)

ogiebb
09-30-2004, 12:06
ang hirap lumipat from iron sights to red dot.. minsan napapa pikit pa tuloy ako ng isang mata at grabe gumalaw yung dot parang laging nagwawala, talbog ng talbog..but sabi ng iba pag natuto ka daw ng Dot madali na ang Standard Div kasi napupulido daw ang galaw mo at speed is always the greatest skill that will be acquired (yung speed na accurate) hinde yung mga nag "Spray and Pray".. he he mabilis nga yung time wala naman tinamaan..i hope this is the right way for me to go.. ;) ijust shot open again this month gamit ko yung luma na 38 supercomp ko na halos singhaba ng rifle yung barrel at comp;f ;f nag aadjust ulit ako sa dot..last time i shot one was months ago (sa wlang kwenta factory competitor ko:( ) if the shorty gets done ill post some pics ..ang dami ko kasi gusto na cuts e ;f ;f

mc_oliver
09-30-2004, 19:08
In my short foray into the dark side, one thing I learned about the dot is that it allows you to see much, much more (kaya nga c-more eh. ;f) Like what ogiebb said, ang likot ng dot and you need to get comfy and work with it, otherwise frustration ang kakalabasan mo. Also, with the dot you only need to focus on the targets.

The iron sights actually do the same thing except that you do not see it in that detail. Plus the fact that you need to keep transitioning your focus between targets and sights to get a good hit.

I also agree with what ogiebb said about the dot refining your movements. And this is actually a consequence of your effort to stabilize it.

In the end, you need to identify the strengths each platform will give you and apply it to your shooting. Open refines your movements and teaches you to see better, while irons teaches you visual patience. ;)

julianz
10-01-2004, 10:05
i will treasure all your inputs guys;W thanks.