View Full Version : Is it a good idea to post your tactical mindset?
Animal_Asteroid
10-09-2004, 10:20
If I posted this topic in the wrong forum, please move it.
Scenario: You post on various internet forums & chatrooms that if someone ever breaks into your house or confronts you on the street or whatever prompts the shooting that you will do a double tap on them, or 2 shots CM and 1 to the head. You say that it is your right to do this and you may rightly or wrongly believe this.
Situtation: You are involved in a righteous shooting at some time. A prosecutor / DA finds your posts and ties them to you for the trial or even the justifiable shooting evidence gathering phase. How do you think this will come across at your hearing?? Something tells me that your attorney may even drop you as a client!!
Question: Is it a good idea to post things like this???
I know it is a long shot that most of us will ever be involved in a justifiable shooting, but if you are, don't you think it would be best to not have evidence like this showing up?
I know a lot of you will laugh and say that this can never be traced back to you personally, but you are wrong there. Anything posted anywhere on the internet can be traced back to the original poster - take my word on that!!
In this post I am not refering to actual training, I am just refering to internet postings.
I am curious as to how people feel about this issue.
Poppa Bear
10-09-2004, 10:37
Depends on your user name. I did searches on my different user names and came up with posts from other people in other forums.
So unless they can tie my legal name to Glocktalk or AR15 and find out my user name I think I am safe.
Originally posted by Animal_Asteroid
Question: Is it a good idea to post things like this???
Depends on whether you are paranoid or not. ;f
Animal_Asteroid
10-09-2004, 11:41
Being paranoid or not has nothing to do with this.
What prompted my question was that I visit a lot of gun related sites, almost never post, just lurk. I see a lot of people posting how they would shoot first and ask questions later. They may just be trying to come across like Rambo, maybe even joking, but it got me wondering what would happen if.......
Personally, I never even joke with people (in person or internet) about what I would or would not do in a situtation. I feel that anything I say can & most probably will come back to haunt me if I was ever involved in a situtation. If I am sucked into a conversation like this I ALWAYS try and word my responses in a positive light, and never try and come across like anything but conservative and responsible. You just never know.
Sam Spade
10-09-2004, 14:42
The internet's the least of your worries. I'm sure anything you've written here has also been stated to people you know, who can be compelled to testify.
First thing to do is get your mind right.
I've posted and talked about this particular issue on numerous occasions. I'll tell you from MY particular stand point. I've testified, as an expert witness, in several federal and state law suits, defending police officers and agencies; also, one criminal trial.
If the "other side" ever got ahold of internet posts, your cute screen names, your Soldier of Fortune collection, your nice, cute pro-gun bumper stickers, to include "Never Mind the Dog, Beware of Owner," you bet your bottom dollar it can be used against you.
Your books from Paladin Press on bomb making, how to kill, etc. Your subscription to SWAT Magazine, and your not a police officer. ALL of it, combined, paints a picture of a "Rambo" wannabe, who is just looking to kill someone.
As I, and WAY MORE qualified people then I, come up to retirement, which side of the fence do you think we may fall on when the rent is due? I'm on this internet board regularly and knowing what people post, etc, don't think I or someone else may sell our soles for the proper sum of money.
Now, having said all of that, ONE thing, in and of itself, isn't going to matter. However, start thinking about the BIG picture. Everything, overall and in general, and see what is being compilied up against you.
That is another reason I preach to be careful who your firearms trainers are. Look up the term "vicarious liability." The person who trained you to fire that firearm, is responsible for what/he has taught you. They also better be damn willing to walk into a court of law and testify on your behalf. There are persons out there who CANNOT do that.
Now, there is a flip side to being on internet boards, getting extensive training, etc. It shows your a responsible gun owner, who is trying to broaden his/her knowledge in the area. On the other hand, the court is more likly to hold you to a higher standard, because of your increased training/knowledge.
Bottom line: It can go either way, depending upon the jury.
My personal suggestion is to keep your personal feelings about "blowing away" the bad guy to yourself. Be very careful about what you post, what you have at home, what t-shirts you wear, what bumper stickers you have on your car/house, and yes, even what you say. I'll have your friend called into court to tell us all, about the time you wanted to kill someone...
Just my two cents gentlemen...
Thin The Herd
Animal said. "I know a lot of you will laugh and say that this can never be traced back to you personally, but you are wrong there. Anything posted anywhere on the internet can be traced back to the original poster - take my word on that!!
So your telling me that I can pick out a post made 2 years ago and you can tell me who made it ?
I think all they can find is a mac address unless they are looking for you. Then again if this nasty ole computer is capturing my image, fingerprints, etc as I type this I will be sorely vexed.
G-Raptor
10-09-2004, 21:21
It's only an issue if you post stupid stuff like "shoot 'em in the yard and drag 'em inside", or "put two rounds in his head after he's down".
I've heard it said that you should never write anything you wouldn't want printed in the newspaper under your name and photograph. I would guess that would apply double on the internet.
We all think we're mostly anonymous, but if someone REALLY wants to track you, they can. Could they prove it was your fingers on the keyboard, no - but then they don't have to.
IMO, if your posts are an honest reflection of your concerns, then don't worry. You'd say the same in court, wouldn't you - although you might word it a bit differently. :cool:
clubsoda22
10-09-2004, 23:42
If you're that worried, i'm sure a simple e-mail to eric can get all your posts erased.
Animal_Asteroid
10-10-2004, 20:12
Thinking that you can erase your posts and everything is gone is totally erroneous. The problem with digital media of any sort is that once something is written it is NEVER gone, doesn't matter if it is on a forum, your computer, an email......
gendarms2000
10-10-2004, 20:30
Originally posted by Mike632
Depends on your user name. I did searches on my different user names and came up with posts from other people in other forums.
So unless they can tie my legal name to Glocktalk or AR15 and find out my user name I think I am safe.
Every post has your IP logged. Even if you use DHCP the ppl who provide your IP address can tell the authorities when you were using that IP address. There are ways around that, but not for the typical keyboard commando.
Basically if they can get your ISP to co-operate, you will be identified.
gendarms2000
10-10-2004, 20:31
Originally posted by clubsoda22
If you're that worried, i'm sure a simple e-mail to eric can get all your posts erased.
Nope. they don't honor those types of requests.
And even if they did your posts are cached on google and other places. I was pretty surprised to find some of mine there.
Whats the odd's that they'll look at your computer unless you went on some killing spree? Just curious...
I personally don't see nothing wrong stating the way you train as long as it's valid. I mean 2 COM 1 HS is a common drill,if you happended to get into a legit shooting and the BG was shoot 2 COM and 1 HS well I guess it could be said that your training took over, saying if a bad guy comes in your house and you'd shoot him down, you didn't go looking for trouble, trouble came to you..guess it would depend on your state but in the good ole state of TN you're on the right side of the law, unless you go chasing and dragging the BG back in to your house,
CarlosDJackal
10-11-2004, 11:26
The legal word of the day is: "DISCOVERABLE". Can you say "DISCOVERABLE"? I know the scumbag's lawyers can.
Stay safe!!
Whats the odd's that they'll look at your computer unless you went on some killing spree? Just curious...
The odds are 100%, at least where I work. Its common practice, at the scene of a murder; yes folks, its murder, whether or not it is justified is an entirely different matter. We obtain a search warrant for EVERYTHING and SEIZE EVERYTHING. It sometimes takes days to finish the process.
Your computer, the floppy disks, the hard drive, the CD's, the DVD's, your storage locker, your safe deposit box, EVERYTHING will be looked at. Were going to interview your wife, your ex-wife(s), kids, aunts, uncles, cousins twiced removed, the family cat, etc. All of its going to be done.
All of this information is submitted to the district attorney's office for THEIR review. If they want to file a complaint against you, then everything located will be used against you. Now, understand, that is JUST THE CRIMINAL aspect to this.
Civilly, what can't be used in a criminal trial, CAN BE used civilly. And yes, I know, "I don't care about being sued. As long as I don't go to jail." Uh huh. Until you are. And the dirt bags family is watching you move out of your house and they are outside in their U-Haul. And your daughter's college tuition just went to them, along with the family cat...
And please, do not think attorney's don't know about these websites and either themselves read what is posted, or have staff members do so. I can GURANTEE you they do. Read my original post. Many cops and ex-cops out there, willing to sell their soles to make the rent payment. Aint life grand...
Thin The Herd
Justifiable homicide equals murder ? Wow !
KSFreeman
10-11-2004, 13:47
Good thing my mind is completely blank.;f
Er, uh, I mean in a mushin/wu hsin way.;f
Squaw Man Wolfer
10-11-2004, 14:42
I think the concern is very valid.
The technology does exist to recover every message you ever made. The Question is, does the BUDGET exist to do all that?
There was a case a few years ago where some woman in the government leaked to the press.
They called in a rocket scientist who recovered the incriminating emails, they even got the security tape opf her FEDEXing the package. Your case may or may not be that important.
But, as others have noted, you got stuff on your PC right now thqat is a direct trace.
I used to hang on a survival site a few years ago, and some guy said something REALLY weird. The Feds were knocking on his door the next day.
But I"M not scared, I'll say that John Kerry is a poo poo head.
CarlosDJackal
10-11-2004, 16:26
Originally posted by talon
Justifiable homicide equals murder ? Wow !
The more appropriate statement is: "Justifiable homicide CAN equal murder."
It all depends on your jurisdiction and the DA.
Justifiable homicide equals murder ? Wow !
I shall try and explain this. When you kill someone it is homicide or murder. Whatever word you chose to use. Semantics are just that: Semantics.
In the State of California, if you kill someone it is MURDER. Plain and simple. The killing can be ruled as justifiable or excuseable. This can only be done through a long court process. However, it is still murder. And until one of those exceptions are found, you will be treated like a suspect in a murder.
And yes, for all of you who think police officers are treated differently in this regard, we are not. As previously posted, I've killed two persons as a police officer. Both times I was treated as a suspect, in both investigations. I was basically "arrested" (loose term here, however in the technical, penal code definition, I was. I wasn't free to leave, etc.), read my rights, etc.
And, again, in California, there are three seperate investigations a police officer goes through, after an officer involved shooting. A criminal investigation, done by the local police agency, a criminal investigation done by the district attorney's office, and an internal investigation.
For me, information which cannot be used against me in a criminal trial, can be used against me in the internal investigation and thus, in any civil action.
Thin The Herd
Wow again ! I really didn't know that. In Texas the term is criminal homicide which does indeed equal murder. The word murder sure meant something different to me up until now. I guess lawyers can mess anything up. :)
SmartOne
10-11-2004, 19:40
;P If nothing else every computer user should know how to quickly and easily reformat a hard drive. The ideal safety precaution against intrusive investigation is to have a removable hard drive. Mine comes out with only a short pull and a quick cable disconnect. Then it’s off to the, ‘barbie’ with the drive and backup CD’s!
What kind of trouble would you have to be in to resort to this anyway? It’s a bit much for your typical divorce, isn’t it. Really serious stuff can be traced through your activity with your ISP and machine IP#. If it’s goes that far, then, your estranged partner has a really good attorney; and you’re going to be in for an expensive parting of the ways. (Your ways and most of your means!) ;)
thejackbull45
10-15-2004, 18:57
Originally posted by Animal_Asteroid
Being paranoid or not has nothing to do with this.
What prompted my question was that I visit a lot of gun related sites, almost never post, just lurk. I see a lot of people posting how they would shoot first and ask questions later. They may just be trying to come across like Rambo, maybe even joking, but it got me wondering what would happen if.......
Personally, I never even joke with people (in person or internet) about what I would or would not do in a situtation. I feel that anything I say can & most probably will come back to haunt me if I was ever involved in a situtation. If I am sucked into a conversation like this I ALWAYS try and word my responses in a positive light, and never try and come across like anything but conservative and responsible. You just never know.
I agree prosecuters can be lying scum bag pieces of sh$$. I know from personal experience. If we pass more "punish the gun criminal" type of legislation a good shooting might be next up for a trial date.
Delta_3_63
10-17-2004, 16:00
The internet is just like any other public place. Never say anything there you wouldn't want to have repeated in court.
Remember the Miranda warning: "Anything you say can and will be used against you..."
SmartOne
10-17-2004, 17:58
Originally posted by Delta_3_63
The internet is just like any other public place. Never say anything there you wouldn't want to have repeated in court.
Remember the Miranda warning: "Anything you say can and will be used against you..."
:) That really is wonderful! Very good advice, indeed. (And a necessary reminder, too!) The other day one of my friends, 'Googled' one of my internet, 'nom de plums'. Guess what? The Google search came back with a list of posts that I had previously written on one of my regular websites! Wow, was I floored! Guess I'll have to take, 'SmartOne!' off my business cards and bowling shirt. ;P
During the investigation are they allowed to pry into your private life like that without some sort of warrant? Would a judge even find the "evidence" relavent enough to be heard?
I think there a lot of other factors that might come into play and make a bigger difference. Did you just get your gun the day before? Maybe that showed you were itching to shoot somebody. But really, don't you only have to prove it was self defence? It shouldn't matter what type of person you are unless you're totally off your rocker. The rapper Snoop Dogg was aquited of being an accomplice to a murder despite the fact that he had violent lyrics in his songs and was a gang member.
thejackbull45
10-21-2004, 06:18
Originally posted by Roddy
During the investigation are they allowed to pry into your private life like that without some sort of warrant? Would a judge even find the "evidence" relavent enough to be heard?
I think there a lot of other factors that might come into play and make a bigger difference. Did you just get your gun the day before? Maybe that showed you were itching to shoot somebody. But really, don't you only have to prove it was self defence? It shouldn't matter what type of person you are unless you're totally off your rocker. The rapper Snoop Dogg was aquited of being an accomplice to a murder despite the fact that he had violent lyrics in his songs and was a gang member.
It doesnt work that way. Ive been there. A prosecuters job is to prosecute. If they want you, and there are numerous reasons that have nothing to do with your guilt or innocence, they will try to get you. Believe it or not prosecuters lie and cheat in cases and it is accepted, as long as they dont go overboard they wont be called on it.
One example the pros tried to make me out as a gun nut because I carry my K40 all the time I legally can with a permit. The police didnt like the fact that I carry concealed in my backyard.
Originally posted by thejackbull45
It doesnt work that way. Ive been there. A prosecuters job is to prosecute. If they want you, and there are numerous reasons that have nothing to do with your guilt or innocence, they will try to get you. Believe it or not prosecuters lie and cheat in cases and it is accepted, as long as they dont go overboard they wont be called on it.
One example the pros tried to make me out as a gun nut because I carry my K40 all the time I legally can with a permit. The police didnt like the fact that I carry concealed in my backyard.
I really hope that is the police officer you interacted with. I know the LEO's I interact with understand about carrying but I would hate to think they are in the minority.
gendarms2000
10-31-2004, 19:49
Originally posted by SmartOne
[B];P If nothing else every computer user should know how to quickly and easily reformat a hard drive. The ideal safety precaution against intrusive investigation is to have a removable hard drive. Mine comes out with only a short pull and a quick cable disconnect. Then it’s off to the, ‘barbie’ with the drive and backup CD’s!
It takes about 9 hours to properly purge a 9 gig hard disk (at least last time I did it).
Or if you have a $15,000 degausser you can do it in a minute.
Barbeque does not make the data on magnetic media irrecoverable.
It's best just to stay out of trouble ;)
searcher
11-04-2004, 23:06
Originally posted by gendarms2000
It takes about 9 hours to properly purge a 9 gig hard disk (at least last time I did it).
Or if you have a $15,000 degausser you can do it in a minute.
Barbeque does not make the data on magnetic media irrecoverable.
It's best just to stay out of trouble ;)
I used to have a DOS version of Xtree Gold software for file management that would do a DOD approved "Wash" of the empty space on a hard drive. It overwrote 1s and 0s half a dozen times. Do that a couple times and wouldn't that do your job? It took about 5 minutes on an old slow 500 meg hard drive with a 486.
degoodman
11-05-2004, 09:09
Speaking as a person with deep IT experience, When you start posting stuff on the internet, and that is what we are really concerned about here, its out there damn near forever. If you post it, it can be got, whether or not you smoke your hard drive.
Also, of concern, if you destroy your computer or hard drives, etc, you may be commiting a felony by destroying evidence. And unlike the felony you are facing for shooting someone, you will not beat it. Do not pass go, do not collect $200, go directly to jail, and bye bye to all your guns.
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