View Full Version : Bank robbery scenario – what would you do?
You are in your local bank branch doing some banking (standing in line or at the counter – doesn’t matter). A gunman walks in and does the classic “This is a robbery! Everyone on the ground. ” He waves a gun in the air and points it at the crowd threateningly.
The inept guard goes for his gun, fumbles and gets shot by the much better armed assailant.
At this point, you are on the ground probably huddling in the corner trying to get some cover or using the woman next to you as a shield (just kidding).
The gunner has already killed the guard and is threatening to kill anyone else who moves.
What do you do? (assume you are carrying)
Trebuchet
10-11-2004, 08:10
Am I alone or with the wife and kids?
Originally posted by RobertI
You are in your local bank branch doing some banking (standing in line or at the counter – doesn’t matter). A gunman walks in and does the classic “This is a robbery! Everyone on the ground. ” He waves a gun in the air and points it at the crowd threateningly.
The inept guard goes for his gun, fumbles and gets shot by the much better armed assailant.
At this point, you are on the ground probably huddling in the corner trying to get some cover or using the woman next to you as a shield (just kidding).
The gunner has already killed the guard and is threatening to kill anyone else who moves.
What do you do? (assume you are carrying)
(1) I wouldn't be on the floor in the first place. (It's not a good place to be!)
(2) If there was no shooting, I'd wait until the BG left and follow him outside where it was less crowded. Then decide what to do, depending on what was going on outside.
(3) When an armed robber starts shooting, it's time to shoot him, because now he's a killer and you may be next. No exceptions. While the robber was momentarily distracted with the guard, I'd draw and shoot.
Medpilot 2
10-11-2004, 09:51
Is it legal to carry inside a bank?
For some reason I remember it being illegal. I could be wrong.
Seeing how I'm alone in this scenerio, am I'm close to a door so I can run out ;f At the bank I go to when I do go inside the tellers are all behind bullet proof windows so they are pretty much in a safe room, so I'm screwed on the outside, plus there may be and probably will be a 2nd BG..I wouldn't want to go to the ground, you're in a bad situation then,guard is dead,BG shows you he's willing to kill and if the BG's dont get out of there before the police arrives you've just become a hostage and things have just got worse
Bank Robber has his gun out and it waving it around. Is he alone? I don't know, so I would probably get down on the ground and watch the situation unfold. Where is the bank robber's accomplice? Is he waiting for an armed person to challenge his buddy? How many more hidden accomplices may he have?
The guard was shot trying to kill the bank robber. If it looks like the bank robber is going to begin randomly shooting, then all bets are off.
Pete.
clubsoda22
10-11-2004, 10:22
Originally posted by RobertI
At this point, you are on the ground probably huddling in the corner trying to get some cover or using the woman next to you as a shield (just kidding).
Only if she's pregnant. You know, I'm a big guy and a skinny chick would make lousy cover. (J/K)
On a more serious note. Just one robber? Why did you make it so easy? He's already killed one person, so it's hard to do wrong in this situation. Think about it, everyone in this situation is on the ground, your backdrop is either a solid wall, vault door or bulletproof glass. Single armed opponent at less than 10 yards (likely). Possible second and third armed opponent like getaway driver or someone who looks like a customer who was casing the bank beforehand. Move, shoot, move, shoot, move, threat scan, reload, threat scan, stay in condition red until the cops show up. Maybe attend to the dummbass security guard.
I was thinking about this scenario this morning as I getting ready for work and tucking in my Beretta 92. It was running through my head how I would handle the situation if it ever arose. In doing so, I thought I’d get other GT’ers opinions. I never thought about multiple BGs in my initial scenario. It kinda slipped my mind if this was a well planned attack or a spur of the moment thing.
pjb829: I was thinking the same thing. Lay low until I know there is only one BG or I can identify the others. BUT depending on exactly what was going on, I probably would be tempted to shoot the BG before the situation escalated to hostage level.
Clubsoda: Fat or pregnant chicks really ARE good for something. (Flame suit set to high). ;f
Honestly, I’m torn. I know its selfish, but what would happen to me after this situation? How would the police or courts take it if I shot and killed the BG? I’d have plenty of witnesses to come to my defense, but still...
IF there were no 2nd BG to gun you down and the BG had already shot the guard you would probably be good to go as far as criminaly goes. The video camera would be a better witness than a person telling their side of the story. Anyway I think you would be ok after the BG shot the guard as he's shown he would kill, still would be risky if they BG was able to shoot someone else after you shot him before he killed over...
Family of BG is going to sue you civil court and you'll hear about how such a good guy he was and he would never do something like this speech
Yeah that’s what I was afraid of. Some idiotic civil suit because I shot and killed a guy ROBBING A BANK and committing a MURDER. The least of his crimes was threatening to kill me and everyone else in the bank.
Reminds me of why I hate bloodsucking lawyers.
hehe im broke so it would be hard to get $$
I'm pretty sure here in the great state of TN though that case would get tossed ;f
Dandapani
10-11-2004, 11:05
Originally posted by Medpilot 2
Is it legal to carry inside a bank?
For some reason I remember it being illegal. I could be wrong.
No federal law, depends on state law. In Ohio only illegal if the bank declares itself a Victim Disarmament Zone.
Darkangel1846
10-11-2004, 11:30
Originally posted by V Creed
(1) I wouldn't be on the floor in the first place. (It's not a good place to be!)
(2) If there was no shooting, I'd wait until the BG left and follow him outside where it was less crowded. Then decide what to do, depending on what was going on outside.
(3) When an armed robber starts shooting, it's time to shoot him, because now he's a killer and you may be next. No exceptions. While the robber was momentarily distracted with the guard, I'd draw and shoot.
Well now he only responded to a bank guard drawing on him, and your going to continue a big gun fight with a bank full of people?
Can you kill him with your first three shots? where is his armed partner? Is there more then one partner? How is he/they armed?
How many people are in the bank? Where are they located?
If he shot a guard then he is not above shooting everyone, or anyone in general for causing him a problem. He will kill for revenge if he is only wounded, his partners will do the same thing.
Unless you can kill him and his partners in the first 1-2 seconds you are going to have a major problem on your hands.
When the LEO arrive are you going to stay armed?
So many questions for such a situation.
;a ;a ;a ;a
Medpilot 2
10-11-2004, 12:59
Originally posted by dmobrien2001
No federal law, depends on state law. In Ohio only illegal if the bank declares itself a Victim Disarmament Zone.
Thanks ;c
Originally posted by Darkangel1846
Well now he only responded to a bank guard drawing on him, and your going to continue a big gun fight with a bank full of people?
You are overly concerned with too many "maybe's" = analysis paralysis. ;P ;Q ;P Which in a real-world life/death situation, means you will probably hesitate too long.
When a felon starts shooting innocents, all I'm concerned about is taking him out ASAP = single-mindedness of purpose! ;f Which results in an ultra-fast reaction to the threat, with zero hesitation.
My way always worked fine for me. :cool:
Steve Moses
10-14-2004, 14:46
Vig, you have got to drop that "analysis paralysis" line. It makes you sound like Jesse Jackson.
Originally posted by Steve Moses
Vig, you have got to drop that "analysis paralysis" line. It makes you sound like Jesse Jackson.
;f ;z ;f
Originally posted by Medpilot 2
Is it legal to carry inside a bank?
For some reason I remember it being illegal. I could be wrong.
It's illegal as anything to carry in a financial institution in NC. I'd be sure that if I pulled out a weapon and became the hero, I'd get slapped in the pokey regardless of whether I saved lives/money or not.
As far as I'm concerned, until that Badguy's weapon is pointed at me or he says he is going to kill me, the rest of the customers are on their own.
Let's say he shoots the Security Guard, OK, now he just takes the money and runs. This is a very likely scenario. Having been in an armed encounter, more than once, and investigated for my use of force, I will play like a meek, humble, tree-hugging, bunny loving pansy.
I am not a Police Officer and have no duty to safeguard society. I also don't want to turn this into a multiple hostage scenario and endanger more lives. We are already in enough danger! Someone mentioned that the BG may have an accomplice, who/where? Can you spot them? Did you check your six?
Too many variables and too many people around as far as I'm concerned. Now, if he started killing customers at random then all bets are off!
I've got my Fire Retardant Suit on! Good luck.
Lobezno001
10-14-2004, 23:35
When my wife and I were first married, she moved from Ohio to Florida and began working at a local bank near where we lived. Since she was new (only there for a few days), and I had a day off, my brother and I decided to stop in and surprise her by taking her to a small deli a few blocks away for lunch. We got in line like a couple of goombas just to be funny and there was a young guy (college looking young) at her window. She saw us and smiled, like a teller is supposed to do. Most people smile back then look about their own business, but since she was my wife I was still looking at her, making a face or two, I saw her face go very pale. I thought that the young guy was filling a deposit slip and handing it to her, but the look she had told me she was in trouble. My brother realized what was happening just a second before I did (he's in the good guy business, so he says he'll always be smarter than me), and quickly stepped forward. I followed suit, drawing as I did so, and I will admit extremely angry at the SOB for doing this to my wife. Before I knew it, my brother shifted his step, grabbed the head of the guy at the next window, and struck his skull against the counter. The guy in front of my wife turned to us and before rational thought stopped me I pistol whipped him across the jaw.
To make a long story short(the details of what happened post robbery I shall not go into, sorry), they were a team who had done this to numerous banks over a 5 or 6 week period. They both went to the window, write on a deposit slip their intentions, inform the teller they had guns, and then proceed to reveal several multi colored wires from inside their shirts to threaten about bombs. All of this was a complete hoax. They were using fear to rob banks, and had been lucky enough until that day.
Needless to say, I still thank God everyday that my wife and I are still here. She quit the banking business and still doesn't have any desire to set foot in one. As for me, frankly I'd rather do the ATM deal, otherwise it's the drive-up.
I know we all think about what we would do in a situation, or what hypothetical position we would take against some figmentive threat. To this day, I'm not convinced that what I did was 100% "Right thing, Good job". Looking back, any number of things could have happened, and the results of which would have been our fault for escalating the situation. That makes me very, very stupid. All I know is that everyone walked out that day, and after all these years together with my wife and now our beautiful little girl, I may not have been right, but we're alive.
Lobez
Originally posted by RobertI
You are in your local bank branch doing some banking (standing in line or at the counter – doesn’t matter). A gunman walks in and does the classic “This is a robbery! Everyone on the ground. ” He waves a gun in the air and points it at the crowd threateningly.
The inept guard goes for his gun, fumbles and gets shot by the much better armed assailant.
At this point, you are on the ground probably huddling in the corner trying to get some cover or using the woman next to you as a shield (just kidding).
The gunner has already killed the guard and is threatening to kill anyone else who moves.
What do you do? (assume you are carrying)
I stay on the ground and if possible move my G36 from my ankle holster to my RF pocket.
The guard shouldn't have been inept. Signed his own death warrant by taking a job where he promised to protect the money, then not training enough to make the shot when it counted.
It is very hard to say I'd do this or that as it is largely situational. If I had an absolutely clear shot and thought that the situation was degrading to the point he might kill ME, then I might take pre-emptive action.
If someone else is about to get killed and I could probably stop it, there are two schools of thought.
A) Take the chance and try to save their life. I used to adhere to this philosophy. Actually, I didn't realize there WAS another philosophy for "good citizens". We the CCWs are the sheepdogs, right?
B) Wrong - you aren't the sheepdog. You are just a citizen smart enough to be armed and hopefully trained. Taking that shot WILL cost you $40,000 in civil court on average IF YOU DO IT RIGHT. If you miss, or if the bullet penetrates and hits a bystander, or if you cause someone mental trauma ;g then the price goes up. Thats a GOOD scenario. You MIGHT get to go to jail FOR DOING THE RIGHT THING. Clint Smith shares this take on it then beats it into your head. That "poor person" SHOULD HAVE ARMED THEMSELVES. Because you COULD shoot a clean shoot doesn't mean you should even try to.
Because what is the net effect of me having $20,000 in legal bills? $40,000? $60,000? Or if I tunnel vision and my 230 gr Ranger plows through, does its job on the assailent and then on the infant behind him? Do I go to jail, or just not sleep right for the next 20 years?
The older I get, the more I think Clint isn't far off base - they should have armed themselves as well...
There is option C) - you are a LE officer. Then I'd guess you HAVE TO take the shot if you think someones life is in danger.
But it is all very situational...
federali
10-15-2004, 19:59
I'll have to agree with Pangris and bikerRN. I'll only shoot to protect my skin or related skin. If I'm ordered to the floor or if patrons are ordered to strip and my gun is likely to be found, it just might be time for fireworks. Often, massacre victims are placed face down on the ground. In this scenario, you may not have a choice, even knowing that there may be unidentified backups present. The point is, a backup may kill you, the visible robber WILL kill you. May leaves me some options, will, does not.
Another thing to consider which no one touched on is that your legal footing is stronger when acting in self defense than when you take on the role of a make-believe cop, pursue the BG and hope to find a better place to initiate a gunbattle. Let it go. A back-up may still be present and you'll take one in the back. Initiate a gunbattle where one may not have taken place and you could be held accountable, not only for the rounds you fired but also the rounds the BG fired. Forget citizen's arrest. It's been placed in the various local criminal codes to help enrich lawyers at your expense.
A viable option for an armed citizen is to do absolutely nothing. Considering the financial peril involved, resort to deadly force when you are clearly convinced that by not doing so, you'll likely be killed.
RedhorseG20
10-16-2004, 00:22
I'd hide behind pangris! $10 says hes a better shot than I am.
Originally posted by federali
I'll have to agree with Pangris and bikerRN. I'll only shoot to protect my skin or related skin.
Why do gutless wimps carry guns, is what I want to know? ;P ;Q ;P
If the BG's start shooting shouldnt the GG's shoot back ?
In Florida it is not illegal to carry in a bank. It is because of this scenario that I always avoid entering the bank lobby whenever I can. I usually do my business through the drive-through lane whenever I can.
But none the less whenever I must go into the bank I am always careful. If it's a lone gun man and he just wants the bank's money, guess what I will just be a good witness and let him steal the bank's insured money.
But if he is already shot the security guard and I can get a shot off and he is alone I am gonna take that shot.
If it's a group of them I would probably think long and hard about it. I am not ready to die for someone else's cash.
Papa Charlie
10-16-2004, 21:35
Hey people Im new to the forum great topic makes ya think !
The S/O is down
If the BG is deciding to waste everyone I would return fire until then I would remain calm let him have the money and get out it could turn into a hostage situation .
RedhorseG20
10-16-2004, 23:16
Originally posted by V Creed
Why do gutless wimps carry guns, is what I want to know? ;P ;Q ;P
They have a valid point as far as thinking of what you should do. I think the best thing you can do is get direct deposit and an atm card and you wont have those problems. Thinking isnt a bad thing when my mother, wife, brother, father, son, daughter and maybe dog is right behind the BG from where you are. Or better yet laying right next to you and the BG is a bad shot. Chances are that if his buddy is outside and hears shots, is going to run the opposite way of gunfire because usually friends arent willing to take a hit for another friend. But lets say he is a good friend and charges in with a shotgun or anything bigger than a BB gun. Being the good guy isnt always the best decision.
Here is another scenario what if you wound the BG and he sues you for shooting him. I have heard of robbers hurting themselves in peoples homes and winning the lawsuit.
In Texas I'd get charged with illegally carrying a gun in a bank. I'd shoot ASAP. If the guard is dead but the BG takes the money and runs, maybe I wouldn't shoot. If there's even a hint that the BG is going to shoot again, I shoot first. Maybe I die, maybe someone else dies, etc. I think that in a post 9/11 world and in Texas I'd be pretty safe at the trial.
Look at the fourth plane on 9/11. He's already killed, so you know he's not scared. He's also not backing down. You've got no choice but start shooting. You've got nothing to loose, except your life. Let's roll!
There's something to be said about Pangris's ideas, though. Yes, I carry to protect myself but do I also have a duty to help others? As a doc we face the same kind of decision. Total stranger codes in a retaurant/bank/whatever. Do you risk any number of infectious diseases and lawsuites by intervening or do you just sit back and watch them die? The law in TX says private citizens are protected from suits (good Samaritan law) but I am not. So maybe I just sit back, keep my knowledge to myself, and have about a month's worth of bad nights. Naw, I couldn't help but intervene in any situation. At some point I stop caring about the law and start doing what is right.
federali
10-17-2004, 06:43
Apparently V. Creed is new to America. In case you didn't know, this is a nation of the people, by and for the lawyers. If you can read between the lines, the various CCW laws read as follows: Sure, you may carried a loaded fiream concealed but screw up just a little teeny weeny bit and we'll take you to the cleaners.
I'm sitting on accumulated wealth, including a trust I manage for my aged parents, of more than a million bucks. That's what's at stake for me. Besides, Other than in Minnisota, I don't know of any municipality that would grant you civil immunity following a successful defense of justification.
If you act in good faith but now face criminal charges, it'll cost you a $100,000. retainer just to talk to a criminal lawyer who graduated in the bottom quarter of his class. Hire one of those fancy celebrity lawyers at $1000.00 per hour and you'll be doing side jobs till you 200 years old just to pay the bill.
Sorry, financially secure, gutless wimp beats down and out hero every time. The legal landscape discourages citizen involvement. If that's what the politicians want, that's what they get. Hense, you are on the highest and strongest legal grounds when you're trying to save your own life or when dealing with an intruder in your home. It goes downhill from there.
Federali:
You said it better than I could've. As far as my being a "Gutless Wimp" I will let my maker be the judge of that.
Take care.
beachside39
10-17-2004, 14:22
JGinzo I'm surprised that you are concerned that those of us with CCW permits might be inside the bank. I'd be more concerned about the BG who doesn't care what the local laws may be.
My initial concern is that an arriving LEO would assume that I was the BG and shoot me down. That would be considered a "good shoot", as they say in the LEO community.
I would only step in with my firepower if a) no LEO are present b) the BG's attention was away from me c) I've got a very good shot opportunity d) he's not leaving e) he exhibits intent to do more killing.
I can understand why he'd shoot the guard because he was a threat. He may not shoot anyone else if he's not feeling threatened.
Originally posted by V Creed
Why do gutless wimps carry guns, is what I want to know? ;P ;Q ;P
Same reason idiots make blanket statements on the internet about people they don't know.
clint smith
10-18-2004, 19:47
Pangris
Often we can't save everyone...GG /BG's it won't matter much in court.
Save yourself if required...you know the drill.
Every bullet that clears the tube has a lawyer attached to it.
The best of intetnions are often not rewarded...in court.
Best to you.
clint
TR
Sweet Jesus in the morning, I think that is the real Clint Smith replying to a post of mine on the internet, and an internet commando bulletin board at that! ;P Just goes to show you never know who is reading...
Mr. Smith, if that really is you, thanks for your reply. I thank you for all the instruction in Tejas and can't wait to see you in Oregon. The training I've gone through at TR has been an amazing and eye opening experience, and I know TR-OR will bring more of the same. Please give Heidi, Ray, Harry, Tiger, Jim, Pete, and all the others whose names I can't remember this late at night my regards.
Paul
clint smith
10-19-2004, 06:37
Paul
Please call Ms. H on Weds. if it is possible...for you...some updates and info.
And yes it is me...no magic just clearing up some issues involving TR or more importanly some things that were supposely said by me...but I didn't say them...there is a shock...being misrepresented.
You already know I don't do these chatty things and code names etc.
30 days and a wake up until lift off.
Started new class yesterday and new one this am...48 smiley faces and 10 red shirts...off to work.
best regards to you and the family.
clint
hogrider
10-19-2004, 09:40
Mr. Smith,
Since I can't PM you, or email via the site, I thought I'd ask my question here...
Why would you move your highly regarded training facility to a state with no CCW reciprocity, and very limited non-resident permits?
I've been highly impressed with all of the information I've seen regarding your site, but I'd have to make myself a defenseless victim in order to attend.
Originally posted by clint smith
Paul
Please call Ms. H on Weds. if it is possible...for you...some updates and info.
Will do!
For the record, since I've been known to invoke your name/TR dogma, if I get it wrong please don't hesistate to let me know... I try to keep it accurate and positive!
Originally posted by hogrider
Mr. Smith,
Since I can't PM you, or email via the site, I thought I'd ask my question here...
Why would you move your highly regarded training facility to a state with no CCW reciprocity, and very limited non-resident permits?
I've been highly impressed with all of the information I've seen regarding your site, but I'd have to make myself a defenseless victim in order to attend.
I'll jump in here - Clint and Heidi have addressed this so while this is secondhand info, I did get it from the proverbial horses mouth - this is copied and pasted from one of my TR reviews.
A few words on Thunder Ranches move to Oregon. Clint addressed this issue on the first and last day, so to help clear any rumors -
They are going to have a very nice facility, 8 person classes in 3 day formats, and private training with Clint will be available in one or two day blocks.
They are moving for a variety of reasons -
While he owns Thunder Ranch, Clint is leasing the LAND Thunder Ranch Texas is on. They will own the Oregon Thunder Ranch in both name and physical property.
Heidi has family up there, and Clint thinks it is a good idea to locate her near her mother. I get that one :)
He is ready to scale back to smaller more intimate classes and be the primary instructor again.
Probably others that are none of my business or yours.
While a somewhat frustrating move for those of us in south who are "losing" them, I think the TR - Oregon will offer a different - not better, not worse - format to train and learn in. I for one look forward to going for a rifle class, maybe a pistol tune up, and then you have to round it out with a shotgun... and a private class with Clint...
Jester249
10-19-2004, 12:16
Originally posted by clubsoda22
Only if she's pregnant. You know, I'm a big guy and a skinny chick would make lousy cover. (J/K)
On a more serious note. Just one robber? Why did you make it so easy? He's already killed one person, so it's hard to do wrong in this situation. Think about it, everyone in this situation is on the ground, your backdrop is either a solid wall, vault door or bulletproof glass. Single armed opponent at less than 10 yards (likely). Possible second and third armed opponent like getaway driver or someone who looks like a customer who was casing the bank beforehand. Move, shoot, move, shoot, move, threat scan, reload, threat scan, stay in condition red until the cops show up. Maybe attend to the dummbass security guard.
Boy, you sure cleaned that stage!;Q
KSFreeman
10-23-2004, 10:55
"Of the 72 tactics for fighting, the best option is running away." Chinese Boxing Maxim.
I'm going to run if I can, fight only if I have to. That's just me. I'm Kirk and I'm a gutless wimp with a gun.;f
Hey, someone go check on pangris. I think he fell off his chair a couple of posts up.
Clint, welcome to Glock Talk. Hope everything is going without hiccup. Reminds me to call Peter, then Ms. H now that quarterlies are in to IDoR und IRS.;g
Originally posted by KSFreeman
Hey, someone go check on pangris. I think he fell off his chair a couple of posts up.
If my chair didn't offer good lateral support, I would have. A good slap and some smelling salts and I was back online in minutes ;)
TXOMFS said. "In Texas I'd get charged with illegally carrying a gun in a bank"
Pardon ? I always carry when in my bank.(Chase, Texas) Can you point me to some reading material so I don't go jail ?
Hehe, I got the best tac shoes money can buy.
Originally posted by KSFreeman
"Of the 72 tactics for fighting, the best option is running away." Chinese Boxing Maxim.
I'm going to run if I can, fight only if I have to. That's just me. I'm Kirk and I'm a gutless wimp with a gun.;f
Hey, someone go check on pangris. I think he fell off his chair a couple of posts up.
Clint, welcome to Glock Talk. Hope everything is going without hiccup. Reminds me to call Peter, then Ms. H now that quarterlies are in to IDoR und IRS.;g
Starting a firefight in the middle of a crowded bank is stupid, unless he has begun executing innocent bystanders, or you have reason to believe that he may do so (takes hostages, etc).
The most likely scenario is that the guy wants to get out of the bank as fast as possible with his cash. Let him go.
Nobody is going to remember you has a "hero" if the guy goes full auto with his AK47 and takes out half a dozen innocent bystanders, while trying to kill you. The reason you'd like to avoid a shootout if your wife/kids were there applies equally if they are not there. Someone ELSE's wife/kids may be standing right beside you.
If something goes "horribly wrong" and he decides to take hostages, however -- then it's a whole new scenario. Look for a moment when he's distracted and ventilate him.
Mn. Fly Boy
10-24-2004, 11:35
Brains prevail over macho (guts) Duh!
Mn. Fly Boy
10-24-2004, 13:34
I got caught up in a situation just like this in about 1970 at a branch bank in Lynnwood, Washington. Here is my story.
What would have you done???
My mother who was living in Montana was staying with me at my Lynnwood, Washington redidence recovering from a kidney removal that was done at the University of Washington Hosptial. I was going to take her to her doctor for a checkup after her surgery in Seattle. My father-in-law who had a cancerious wart removed from his forhead had to go to the doctor in seattle at the same time and volunteered to take us. On our way to Seattle Byron stopped at a branch bank to cash a check. There was a parking place right in front of the bank and he pulled in. The big glass doors at the entrance was right in front of us about 30 feet away. As Byron walked into the bank while my mother siting in the front seat and myself siting in the back seat behind my mother we both saw this rather big guy walk up bihind Byron with a gun and shoved it into his back and gave him a hard shove accross the room and he disappeared. We didn't know this at the time but what he said was Get you ass in there and get on the floor I am robbing this bank! While pushing him into one of those little rooms. Byron dove to the floor along with two or three young ladies who were bank employees. Then the robber turned and walked right up to the glass door and looked right out at us with gun in hand. I said to my mother that the bank is being robbed and not to look at the bad guy and pretend you didn't know what was going on. She ignored me and just stared at the BG and if looks could kill he would have been dead right then. I didn't know any of this at the time but here is what happened. An off duty police officer (carrying) was pulling into the parking lot in his pickup truck when this BG backed into him. BG pulls gun on off duty police officer and say's get your ass into the bank I am going to rob it. They go into the bank BG announces he is robbing the bank and tells everyone to get on the floor. Inept bank guard gives up his gun to the robber since he has the drop on him and complies to hitting the floor. BG now has guards real gun and sticks it under his belt. BG's gun is a toy gun but we don't know that. It looks to me like it is a S&W 19 .357 mag. with a 5 inch barrel just like one I own. Looking in from out side we see this girl running past the glass doors and coming back again while the BG looks out at us again (Mother still stareing intently back) Then we see this off duty police officer approach the BG kind of like hey man go away or something. The BG pokes his gun at him and shoves him back and telling him to get on the floor. Then in a few minutes the BG starts out the door comming right at my mother and I. I was in a predickiment and felt pretty helpless because while this was gong on I looked to see if the keys were in the car thinking I could drive away and then call the cops. Again not knowing if the BG has backup wathcing the parking lot and the fact that my mother was hardly able to walk since just having a kidney removed. I was also unarmed because my gun was in my vechicle which was at home. Anyway the BG's car was parked along side of us to the right and as he walked up along side of our car I tell my mother not to look at him and again pretend not to know what is going on. Not knowing what the BG is going to do like shoot any witnesses I prepare to defend myself and my mother to the end. I set up tall in the back seat so BG can't get a good shot at me, door unlocked with my foot on it ready to give it a big shove when bad guy pulls it open and prepared to come out like a wild cat pushing GB off balance and biteing, scratching, kicking, and killing this SOB with my bare hands. Anyway BG is parked next to us and opens his car door with gun in his right hand starts to get into his car. Then this Dude (off duty police Officer) comes out of the bank with gun in hand, he drops to his knees and hollars STOP-HOLD-IT. I tell my mother to get down and of course she ignores me again and watched the whole thing. Five shots rang out and we were in the line of fire because we were diagonally parked along side of the BG's car. BG turns and switches gun from right to left hand while being shot at. BG falls over backward along side of our car. He got hit twice. Off duty police officer slowly get up and says drop it and slowly walks up to BG laying on the ground and circles around him taking the gun out off the BG's hand and then the real gun from his belt. I roll down my window and ask him if he is a police officer and he replied that he was. I ask if there are any others backing him up and he said no. Then I ask if I can get out off the vechicle because by this time I had been trapped long enough. It was only minutes before cops were comming from all directions and I watched as they removed two bullets from the bad guy that were visiable and put them in a bag. The BG did a few kicks and died right in front of me. Good ridience. He had $1400 in cash in a brown paper bag when he died. They wouldn't allow anyone that was in the bank to leave untill the FBI questioned everyone. They let my Father-in-law give me the keys to his car and I left and got my mother to her doctor appointment a little late. Her blood presure was off the wall but the doc said he could understand it since what she had just been through. A few days later a detective came to my house and got statements from my mother and I. I cleard the off duty police officer saying that the gun looked as real as it could be having one just like it in real time. The police officer was cleared of any wrong doing. Boy I'll tell you it's scary to be caught up in this kind of thing and feeling so helpless and not being able to do anything because I wasn't going to leave my mother even if my life depended on it. Thanks for reading this. Lloyd (Mn. Fly Boy)
;P ;P
I worked in a superette (like a 7-11 store but NOT 7-11) and I had the shift where you put all of the dough in the bottom part of the drop safe, put $40 in the top part of the safe (accessible) and lock the place up. This was back in 1972 and I was unarmed.
I got the dough in the drop safe and the $40 put up for the guy to open up in the morning. I am going out the door and some guy shows up with his 38 special and tells me "get back inside and open up the safe, I know you know the combination"
So I go back in and give him the $40. I tell him "I can't get in the bottom and if that isn't enough I'll write you a check"
He tells me to go into the bathroom and wait 5 minutes before I come out. I go into the bathroom and light up a cigarette and take about 3 puffs off of it and then I go and call the cops.
The cops show up, fill out the report, The boss shows up with money to open the next day.
This was a PART TIME night job while I was going to technical college in the daytime. I had just graduated and had just started a full time day job as a draftsman. I had already given my notice to the store manager (a new store manager).
The police start interviewing my parents, their neighbors etc.
OH, I am also living at my parents as I am getting divorced as well.
So the cops figure I need the dough. The police call up my NEW full time boss and tell him that if I don't show up for work to call them as I am the number one suspect in an armed robbery.
About 2 weeks goes by and the store gets robbed again, This time another guy is there (I quit) and the robber tells him "get back inside I know the money is in the walk in cooler". (they moved the $40 to the walk in cooler).
Me and the other guy put the finger on the crook in a police lineup.
Turns out the manager was in on it.
The police never called all of my moms neighbors nor my ex-boss to tell them I was innocent.
Incidently, during the robbery when I went back in the store I had to make a 90 degree corner to get to the back room where the safe was. I was waiting around the corner becasue I was gonna shove this guys 38 up his butt. Well, the boss told him I don't move to fast due to a bad leg and to stay at least 10 feet away from me. The guy made a real wide corner so I couldn't get him. I was 23 years old then and just out of the service and vietnam. I wanted to make this punk eat his gun. The only fear I had was when I was down on the floor opening the top of the safe to give him the bag with the $40 in it.
Oh well, I'm lucky it turned out okay.
Bob
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