Wild Senerio Thread Got Me Thinking?

[ILL DILL]

While reading the wild senerio/bounty hunter/PD wrong house thing I couldn't help but think. I keep a firearm at ready next to the bed while I sleep. As others have said, and I'm sure its true, police will storm a house extreamly fast.

Now here is the question, as a law abiding citizen I would not have any reason to think the police would be storming my house (as opposed to a felon or fugitive). Since the police would move fast through the house and make it to my room within a few seconds, 5 maybe, I don't think I would have time to realize it was law enforcement. I would simply hear screaming and comotion in my house when I know I should be alone. I think I would likley fire at anything entering my room, I'm also sure I wouldn't survive the encounter even if I realized what was happening and dropped the gun as the next couple through will be gun blazing simply to protect themselves.

If the police have a tip on a house, but its not 100%, or the command element isn't sure would the police enter slowly and be sure to announce who they are to ensure that its not a mistake?

or

Would they not storm a house unless it was 100%

What about you LEO's, what if you were dead asleep and your house was stormed. Could you make the distinction in the 3-5-7 seconds before they were to your bedroom?

[Jester249]

Originally posted by ILL DILL

What about you LEO's, what if you were dead asleep and your house was stormed. Could you make the distinction in the 3-5-7 seconds before they were to your bedroom?


Yup.

[Nicolai]

I'm not a LEO, but I won't shoot if I can't identify what I'm shooting at.

[ILL DILL]

Originally posted by Nicolai
I'm not a LEO, but I won't shoot if I can't identify what I'm shooting at.

Your a law abiding citizen, no reason to fear the law coming after you, so its not even a thought in your head. Its the middle of the night, your alone in your house, no family within 800 miles, no one has your keys, and you hear a loud bang(your door and flash bang in the living room). You hear men rushing down your hall yelling something that in your daze is inaudable...

Your telling me you won't shoot? Your going to stand idle as they enter your room? What if it wasn't police...and it was a home invasion you'd be dead. I would most certianly shoot.

[ILL DILL]

double

[reagansquad2]

It gets even better when you consider what happens when you are in a flash-bang induced haze and accidently cover them with the muzzle of your gun... Or right before you figure out they are LEO.

[podwich]

I think there's a high probability of dying in this scenario.

[ILL DILL]

Originally posted by podwich
I think there's a high probability of dying in this scenario.

I think its almost an assurity that you will either die, or if your lucky only be shot a few times.

It would be a real tragity, for the officer who came through the door first, his family, and who ever was in the house and that persons family.

I just hope, and I'm confident, that LEO only raids a house when they are as sure as possible that it is the right house.

[degoodman]

Realistically, police have a pretty hard time getting a "no knock" pound down the door with no notice type search warrant. They have to have, in addition to the regular probably cause type stuff, an articulable reason why the people inside a place represent an extreme threat to the officers, or why they would have the capability to eliminate or destroy evidence in under 30 seconds, or both.

To get that they will have done surveilance, have the names of the BG's involved, gotten an idea of when the BG's are likely to be home, etc.

Once they do get a no-knock, when they come in, they are making it very clear who they are and what they want everyone to do. They generally don't try and hide the fact that they are police, and they are serving a warrant. I suppose the BG's might yell police too, but I doubt that 10 of them will be coming through my door.

Yes I have seen the stories about bad police work causing innocents to get raided, as a matter of fact I have probably seen them all, since they get such a rediculous amount of ink and air time. They don't happen all that often.

I prepare myself for many self defense scenarios, and a home invasion in the middle of the night is one of the things I think about. But if the home invaders are a team tactically trained individuals with automatic weapons and a plan, I'm screwed, and I hope they're nice people not BG's.

Will I be going for a gun, you bet. I'll also be taking cover. Hopefully I don't get shot before I figure out the invaders are police. If not, I get a funeral and my attorney and family gets rich.

[pjb829]

degoodman,

Just out of curiosity, what is considered "articulable reason why the people inside a place represent an extreme threat to the officers"?

Does the known presence of firearms in the domicile meet that requirement? If not, what other elements are needed to get the "no knock" warrant?

I am in no way trying to bash LE's, I'm just trying to figure out what our judicial system is thinking.

Pete.

[cannoncocker]

I was wondering if a meteor flew from the sky and i knew it was going to hit me could i shoot it fast enough with my keltec and would it keep the meteor from hitting me.Or should i use my glock?This could happen you know.Maybe i should put this in calaber corner.:cool:

[brownie]

pjb829:

Without reading throught the whole thread here:

Known drug houses would be one example of articulable reason to believe an element of surprise would be necessary. Both due to the drugs being flushed and the baddies having weapons and waitingfor officers to enter.

There are others, of course. Usually weapons and drugs will play in these scenarios, either both in concert or one of them with other known circumstances.

Robin Brown

[coastalcop]

Here is an example of what gets a "no-knock" provision in the search warrant


knocking and announcing our intentions of executing the search warrant would pose and undue danger to the serving officers our probable cause for said belief is as follows

The suspect is a confirmed member of an organization listed as a Terrorist Organization with the Department of Homeland Security identified through the Federal Bureau of Investigation. This organization (name removed) has a longstanding history of violent confrontations with Law Enforcement , and espouses violence as a course of changing government agendas. Furthermore the suspects listed in the warrant are known through confidential informants (who have proved reliable in the past) to trade the Contraband (Methamphetamine) for firearms. The suspects also have the capability of destroying evidence of the offense if the Entry is delayed by the requirement to knock and announce.


I have changed some of the language , but the basics are there, this will get most judges to allow a no-knock warrant, though that really isnt an accurate representation of what goes on.... we knock ;) with a really loud and really big ram ;f , hey we didnt want you to have to get up so we just let ourselves in :cool: