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paltik45
10-13-2004, 20:24
Well I was watching "Tales of the Gun" on the History Channel this afternoon. The featured weapon was the M16 rifle and they told the history of this rifle and the developement. As we all know this rifle was invented by Mr. Eugene Stoner who was an employee of an aircraft company during that time. They featured the big blunder and the baptism of fire of this rifle during the Vietnam war. While I was waching the show I can't help to recall the "kwentong barbero" about the M16. My fathers freind who was a retired army Sgt. kept on bragging that the M16 was invented by a Filipino named Armando lite and the idea was later sold to U.S. Well I wish I can give my fathers freind a copy of this film to enlighten him;f I am not degrading our inventors as I know we have several inventors who are known to the world and I am proud of them.:) Well I guess the myth of Armando Lite still prevails in the back country of the Philippines.:cool:

mikey177
10-13-2004, 22:38
Yes, the History Channel also keeps me up late some nights because of its interesting segments on the history of warfare and armaments. Would anyone know if the producers offer their documentaries for sale on some website? Some of their shows would make a valuable addition to a shooter's library.

Also, its the first time I heard of Armando Lite, but then, being an introvert and all, I usually just keep my mouth shut when I have my hair cut :)

Eye Cutter
10-13-2004, 23:01
meron ka history channel? bakit destiny cable and sky cable wala???

you can order the videos at their website

Alexii
10-14-2004, 00:23
Armando Lite? Kala ko bago'ng beer ng San Miguel. He he.

What cable provider has that History Channel? Our cable provider charges extra for Discovery Channel!

horge
10-14-2004, 00:41
Aye.

I hate it when that sort of crap gets tossed around.

Like, someone claiming a Filipino named Agapito 'Flores' (sometimes Amado or Pedro Flores) invented the Fluorescent Bulb. Bullpoop. This Flores supposedly got a French patent in the 1930's (not true) and pitched the invention to then-President MLQuezon, ahd supposedly GE bought the patent (also not true). In any case, he's predated by Peter Cooper Hewitt who got a US patent in 1901, while Edmund Germer, Friedrich Meyer and Hans Spanner got their patents in 1927. Andre Claude developed the first tubular fluorescents, and the poor fellow gets no credit.

Like, someone claiming a Filipino designed the Lunar Rover. Supposedly Eduardo San Juan, employee of Lockheed Aerospace invented the thing. More Bullpoop. He put together a casual mockup made from junk parts, but based on the design work of many others in the company. In any case, Eduardo San Juan's Lockheed didn't even build the LRV --it was Boeing. Grumman and others washed out of the bidding early: their designs were too heavy and yet problematic. I'm not even sure Lockheed ever made a bid!

Like, someone claiming Filipinos invented balisongs...
We may build them better than anyone else, and we made them ours culturally, but those really are Franco-Spanish designs manufactured in the 1700's onwards, predating any of the nonsense claims of a Filipino in Batangas inventing them last century. Switchblades involved too many components that locals had difficulty making (like springs, etc.) and so the simple manufacture of the 'bali-sungay' with its carabao-horn handles caught on.

Don't even get me started on erythromycin, waterpowered cars or patis.
(No, we actually HAD patis before the Spaniards, and there is ample record in Spanish records, no matter how Aling Tentay became the first to make a busines of it --but the Byzantines were probably first with their garum)

Hayayay....

DA_NINJA
10-14-2004, 00:49
Did a Filipino Invent the M-16 Rifle?


There's a rumor going around that the M-16 rifle was invented by a Filipino, most recently mentioned in the archives of another urban legend, the Art Bell Email hoax. In one of the emails sent in response to the hoax, an irate Filipino claims, "Didn't you know that it was a Filipino who developed the M-16...." (There's more, but I know better than to print the rest of it.)

According to this page on ClassicFirearms.org, the M-16 was first developed in 1956 by Eugene Stoner, "a prolific and talented inventor of small arms." It was originally named the AR15, and came to be known as the M16 later on, with the name AR15 reserved for the semi-automatic version of the rifle.

There's no indication given that Eugene Stoner was Filipino, or had any Filipino background. His obituary says he was born in Gasport, Indiana, in 1922, and educated in Long Beach, California.

From this, we can conclude that the M-16 was NOT invented by a Filipino. However, the M-16 assault rifle did see extensive use in smaller Southeast Asian countries -- including the Philippines -- and is still in use by the Philippine Armed Forces to this day. (Whether that's a good or bad thing for our Armed Forces, I leave to the seasoned military experts.) http://pula.ph/?article=inventor_of_m16

mikey177
10-14-2004, 01:35
Originally posted by Eye Cutter
meron ka history channel? bakit destiny cable and sky cable wala???

you can order the videos at their website

I dunno Doc, maybe Sky Cable has a different set of programs here in the province.

Alexii, we don't have Discovery Channel here either, even Animax (waah).

Horge, is there anything worthwhile that Filipinos did invent?

Valor1
10-14-2004, 02:30
I thought the M-16 was invented by Elisco? Kidding aside, this is what happens when there is a lack of heroes or a lack of role models.

As always good point Horge.

Alexii
10-14-2004, 02:57
Just an observation-- we Filipinos seem to be a "validation-crazy" country. We simply crave for a mark in the international scene. When we do finally make a legitimate mark from time to time (Bata Reyes, Lea Salonga, Manny Pacquiao, etc) we proclaim to high heavens almost to an embarrassing point how good we are. We as a nation seem to crave for validation in everything and we'd have strong words in store for people who'll run counter and stand in the way of our perennial quest (remember our idiotic protest on Jay Leno's remark?).

vega
10-14-2004, 07:03
Basta ang alam ko the 1911 in 45 ACP was developed for the Filipinos.

vega

DA_NINJA
10-14-2004, 08:01
Originally posted by vega
Basta ang alam ko the 1911 in 45 ACP was developed for the Filipinos.

vega
iirc for the filipino muslim juramentados during the war in mindanao for a war ages ago

vega
10-14-2004, 08:19
"to be used for not to be used by"

vega

julianz
10-14-2004, 09:39
kesyo... kesyo.... kung sino man nag invento ng armalite , i dont give a damn all i know is i want one :drool:

Allegra
10-14-2004, 10:31
Like, someone claiming Filipinos invented balisongs...
We may build them better than anyone else, and we made them ours culturally, but those really are Franco-Spanish designs manufactured in the 1700's onwards, predating any of the nonsense claims of a Filipino in Batangas inventing them last century. Switchblades involved too many compionents that locals had difficulty making (like springs, etc.) and so the simple manufacture of the 'bali-sungay' with its carabao-horn handles caught on.



Basta ang alam ko, pag sinabing balisong, tayo ang sikat
Could be nagkataon similar lang ang design

vega
10-14-2004, 17:28
Originally posted by Allegra
Like, someone claiming Filipinos invented balisongs...
but those really are Franco-Spanish designs manufactured in the 1700's onwards,

Ano ka ba naman Allegra? ;) Balisong were invented by the Pinoys not by the Spaniards...Look they came over to the Philippines to borrow a lot of things and words. See how they spread the Filipino words to Latin America during the 1500 BC?(should be AD) ;f

vega

horge
10-14-2004, 17:43
Worthwhile Filipino invention, mikey?
Sure...

Every year, Filipino inventors come up with something cool. But it seems our inventivenes lies in adaptation/modification of existing technology and concepts. That's often better than coming up with something new but undeveloped and as-yet inapplicable to help humanity.

I'm talking about developing bus and I/O architecture, improving voltage regulators, better fertilizers and pesicides, fully-developed pharmaceuticals from local flora and fauna, ---those are the things that make a huge impact today ---but as the patents are often sold to the large MNC's who can make something of the inventions, we never hear of the Filipino origins.

Here's one:
McDonald's uses carageenan (from Laurencia seaweed) as a fat substitute in some of its burgers, making them juicier but healthier. The idea was pitched to them by Filipino marine biologists at UP MSI, and made us a bundle in exports until other countries farmed seaweed more efficiently and inexorably ate up our market share. Sayang.

Until our government makes local investment less than a gargantuan barricade of taxes, fees, and endless paper-chasing, all the good ideas will be sold to countries that treat entrepreneurs with respect and care ---and our country will be left with fewer and fewer inventors and investors. We can already see that government, rather than expanding the tax base, is relying on squeezing an obscene amount of redundant taxes from what little, shrinking tax base remains.

Hayayay.



Papa Allegra ;)

As for balisong ---the pied-du-roy was designed with a tongs/pliers-style single pivot and the two familiar handles. It was demonstrably popular with French and Spanish sailors --France and Spain were for a long time either united under the Bourbon House of kings or else briefly under common Napoleonic rule. (There is supposedly an old print advertisement selling the folding knives here for 6 pesos apiece, imported from Coruna, in the late 1800's). In contrast, the earliest balisong ever recorded (or even claimed) as made here in da Feelipeens dates only to the early 20th century ---prior to that, and tellingly, no historical records mention such a formidable (and flashy) weapon made here.


The Philippine balisong uses two pivots, one for each handle and fixed to the blade hilt --simpler to produce, and very, very fast to deploy, unlike the French and Spanish imports.

We didn't invent the folding knife with two handles.
We did adapt it into a beautiful, frighteningly fast weapon,
from its Leatherman/SwissKnife-slow, utilitarian French original.
So yeah, the swift-and-wicked balisong is truly ours.

darwin25
10-14-2004, 18:03
I've always thought that Armando Lite, Agapito Flores and the stories behind them is just a myth. Like Mikey said, I always thought its just kwentong barbero. But I never dared debate the subject with a barber giving me a haircut especially when he is holding a razor blade.;f

And the pathetic thing about it is its not just in the barber shops that one can hear those myth. Our kids hear them in school. Its even in our kids' textbooks. No wonder many Filipinos does not even know their own history.

mikey177
10-14-2004, 18:03
Thanks, horge, for the very informative post. It makes me wish I'd stuck to Chemical Engineering instead of entering the seminary. Maybe I could've been the Filipino who developed recoilless ammunition. Actually, I've always been intrigued by that idea... ammo that has the kick of a .22LR but the impact of a .45ACP :)

9MX
10-14-2004, 18:32
Originally posted by horge
Aye.

I hate it when that sort of crap gets tossed around.

Like, someone claiming a Filipino named Agapito 'Flores' (sometimes Amado or Pedro Flores) invented the Fluorescent Bulb. Bullpoop. This Flores supposedly got a French patent in the 1930's (not true) and pitched the invention to then-President MLQuezon, ahd supposedly GE bought the patent (also not true). In any case, he's predated by Peter Cooper Hewitt who got a US patent in 1901, while Edmund Germer, Friedrich Meyer and Hans Spanner got their patents in 1927. Andre Claude developed the first tubular fluorescents, and the poor fellow gets no credit.

Like, someone claiming a Filipino designed the Lunar Rover. Supposedly Eduardo San Juan, employee of Lockheed Aerospace invented the thing. More Bullpoop. He put together a casual mockup made from junk parts, but based on the design work of many others in the company. In any case, Eduardo San Juan's Lockheed didn't even build the LRV --it was Boeing. Grumman and others washed out of the bidding early: their designs were too heavy and yet problematic. I'm not even sure Lockheed ever made a bid!



wetaminit! wasn't there a GE tv commercial harping on the filipino's invention of the fluorescent bulb? ;Q

mikey177
10-14-2004, 19:12
Yes, 9MX. And IIRC, a few months ago, prior to the Advertising Congress convention in Baguio, this advertising group ran a series of TV commercials praising various "Filipino inventions" such as the lunar rover and the flourescent lamp. I guess there really is no truth in advertising :)

paltik45
10-14-2004, 21:16
Ooooops teka lang mga Sir, meron pang isang sikat na pinoy here in this corner of the world:) She is (drumroll please) Imelda Marcos;g Bakit ko nasabi well I am currently employed in a very small town here in the Midwest USA(population as of yr2003- 1,200). I am one of the 4 Filipinos in this predominantly white community. Whenever my patient learned that I am a pinoy they usualy asked me if I know Imelda marcos ;f To give you an idea of this town you should watch the movie "TWISTER". Remember they stop by in a small town were they had lunch? Well ganun yung town na ito. This place is a culture shock if you grew up in Manila;g California watch out for me in 2005;z ;a

bass one
10-14-2004, 23:23
MAG YOYO NA LANG TAYO! ;f

doctabako
10-15-2004, 00:35
Originally posted by horge

We didn't invent the folding knife with two handles.
We did adapt it into a beautiful, frighteningly fast weapon,
from its Leatherman/SwissKnife-slow, utilitarian French original.
So yeah, the swift-and-wicked balisong is truly ours.

I agree, the earliest record of the Balisong made here in Batangas(Bo. Balisong in Taal to be exact) has been in 1905 made by a certain Perfecto De Leon. Although they claim that this type of knife has been made there for a long time beforehand and you wouldn't want to mention to their face that their forebears didn't invent it. Whatever the provenance it can't be denied that the design of the Balisong or Batangas knife(with the two pivots) is known to the world as our product.... and the Pied du Roy(with the single pivot) which was made in 17th Century France has slipped into obscurity.:)

antediluvianist
10-15-2004, 21:58
The early Spanish friars wrote that the "Indios" in those days attached (how? aray!) little metal balls and other gadgets to their *****es to make screwing more enjoyable (for the woman, presumably.)

I guess that's not an "invention", but man, it shows creativity!

Also, how the hell did the Spanish friars get to know all those intimate details about the "Indios"? Horny friars!

9MX
10-15-2004, 22:12
Originally posted by antediluvianist
The early Spanish friars wrote that the "Indios" in those days attached (how? aray!) little metal balls and other gadgets to their *****es to make screwing more enjoyable (for the woman, presumably.)

I guess that's not an "invention", but man, it shows creativity!

Also, how the hell did the Spanish friars get to know all those intimate details about the "Indios"? Horny friars!

;i ~1

gunfool
10-15-2004, 23:37
Originally posted by 9MX
;i ~1 hahahahah! I have two but not metal.........

atmarcella
10-16-2004, 01:30
happy talaga ako sa board na ito, ang dami ko napupulot, akala ko totoo talaga yung flourescent lamp story and yung lunar rover story, thanks for informing me otherwise bogs, anyway it shows how pathetic we filpinos are, lately lang if not for the americans tuloy ang ligaya ng mga heneral natin, kaso lang most of us dont want to admit it, that we really are pathetic as a nation and people, the way i see it if we dont admit to our shortcomings then we will never become better, on the other hand, magaling naman tayo mag paputok ng handguns as evidenced by jethro etc. so ok lang, meron naman tayo strong points hehehehehe!

horge
10-16-2004, 07:05
Originally posted by atmarcella
...kaso lang most of us dont want to admit it, that we really are pathetic as a nation and people...
atmarcella,
I'm the one who posted the facts about the fluorescent bulb, the Lunar RV, et cetera..
I posted it because I'm all for correcting false claims.

Sadly, your post, quoted above, may contain one of the worst falsehoods around.

Filipinos are a noble but kind people.
Every culture has its fakirs and liars, and it's an old principle that while 'cream rises to the top', so does scum. I would never indict all of the American, French or Chinese peoples for some of the ridiculous claims made by (and philandering antics of) their noisy scum --especially the scum who can occasionally become their Heads of State. I certainly wouldn't dismiss all Filipinos for the lies of but a few.


I'm proud to be Filipino, a son of an ancient and noble race.
My country. I'll die for it, if I have to.
Nothing 'pathetic' about that.



.

atmarcella
10-16-2004, 09:29
sorry horge, medyo sad lang kasi whats happening to our country, what with all the coruuption in government etc., maybe pathetic is a strong word to use, maybe i'm not as nationalistic as you, pero gusto ko din umasenso ang pilipinas, disappointing lang kasi we pay taxes all the time tapos binubulsa lang pala, about nationalism, do you know that in korea if you drive an imported car magugulat ka lang someone will go to your car and smash the headlights and its just normal to them they'll say it happens all the time, i dont think meron tayo ganon ka tindi na nationalism, i mentioned that cos if we all felt that way about our country, me and govt. officials included, cguro aasenso din tyo, anyway this is all for arguments sake lang, sorry if i touched a nerve horge

horge
10-16-2004, 17:04
I'm sorry if I came on too strong as well, atmarcella.
:)

Cheer up.
I guess I'm one of the foremost critics of what's wrong in our country, but I always keep in mind the may good things we have.

Foremost being we are the true native people of our own country, and not the descendants of a colonizer, with the true natives relegated to aboriginal curiosities. I'd rather be here than in the Sahel, Tlalpuhajua, Kent, Pamplona or Vermont.

We enjoy great food, sing good songs, and celebrate family.
We believe in God, in salation and forgiveness.
We have pretty smokin' women (the men, well... one out of two ain't bad)
We, as a people, make do. We tinker and improve... and we survive.
:)

BinLurking
10-16-2004, 17:44
Originally posted by horge
I'm sorry if I came on too strong as well, atmarcella.
:)

Cheer up.
I guess I'm one of the foremost critics of what's wrong in our country, but I always keep in mind the may good things we have.

Foremost being we are the true native people of our own country, and not the descendants of a colonizer, with the true natives relegated to aboriginal curiosities. I'd rather be here than in the Sahel, Tlalpuhajua, Kent, Pamplona or Vermont.

We enjoy great food, sing good songs, and celebrate family.
We believe in God, in salation and forgiveness.
We have pretty smokin' women (the men, well... one out of two ain't bad)
We, as a people, make do. We tinker and improve... and we survive.
:) And you have a lot of rich Generals. ;f

atmarcella
10-16-2004, 19:01
Originally posted by horge


Foremost being we are the true native people of our own country, and not the descendants of a colonizer, with the true natives relegated to aboriginal curiosities. I'd rather be here than in the Sahel, Tlalpuhajua, Kent, Pamplona or Vermont.
:) [/B]

horge correct me if i'm wrong, pero di ba da aetas are the true natives of this country, most of us are also immigrants coming from malaysia etc., di ba yung mga datu's that immigrated here in boats called barangays, so di ba if that's true the natives were also relegated to aboriginal curiosities, that is kung tama ako:),

btw i also get into stimulating arguments with my in-laws cos of my negative and hopeless opinion of whats happening with our country, galit sila kasi ayaw nila mag immigrate kami ng asawa ko, mapalayo sa kanila anak nila hehehehehe, sometimes i think kailangan na natin ng kamay na bakal, sana magkaroon din tayo ng filipino LEE KWAN YEW.

horge
10-16-2004, 20:31
Hi :)

Yes, the theory is that the Baluga (Ita/Aeta/Agta) got here first, but they too came via boat for some stretches: the land bridges at the time weren't unbroken. Yes, others would come later, possibly displacing the originals to some extent. Everyone everywhere is in the long view descended from an immigrant, no?

We are descended from one of thos groups, and constitute a people, yes?
My point is that we ourselves are still here, undisplaced by those many paleskinned invaders who came to colonize this land. We are still here, in charge. We control our own destiny: for all that is wrong about us in our own country, we really cannot lay blame on outsiders.

Now, if it is in our power to hurt, it must be similarly in our power to heal and nourish... If we create the problems that bedevil us, then we can also develop the solutions. If we were somehow by the color of our skin the peons under a pale master race, right here and right now... well, we're not.

darwin25
10-17-2004, 17:51
Originally posted by atmarcella

I get into stimulating arguments with my in-laws

How do you do it? Arguing with in-laws are never stimulating for some.;f

9MX
10-17-2004, 18:30
Originally posted by BinLurking
And you have a lot of rich Generals. ;f

you just wait, its certain that the officers of lower rank are are not so far behind;f

antediluvianist
10-18-2004, 01:05
IT ISN'T ALL BAD


Financial Crisis, tumbling peso, corrupt Generals, more taxes, skyrocketing oil prices - is there anything to feel good about? This column presents five positive factors which balance the impression that the world is ending.

1. There are some good effects from the present skyrocketing oil prices (which will probably reach $60-70 per barrel in the near future.)
Actually, oil prices were higher in the early 1980s. If we adjust for inflation, the price of oil in 1981 - during the height of the Iran hostage crisis - was actually $75 a barrel in today's prices. The present oil price of $55 is much lower than that. But what happened after 1981? That high price of oil was not sustained, hence there was no financial incentive for oil companies to invest the enormous sums of money necessary to find new reserves, and to invest in significantly more drilling and refining capacity. This time, high oil prices are sustained. This will make it financially worthwhile for corporations to find new reserves (both Alaska and the North Sea are being exhausted), to spend the money to develop higher-tech methods of extracting oil from deeper deposits, and to invest in new (hybrid engines, fusion?) ways of efficiently using energy. Sustained, high, oil prices may be bad for us now, but will be good for our children.

2. These rising oil prices will not cause a worldwide recession, just lower the world's growth rate. Every $10 increase in the price of oil will decrease world growth by half a percent, BUT at present practically every country in the world is growing - some, like China and India and most of Asia - are growing by leaps and bounds. Even Europe is growing, although relatively slowly. So these high oil prices will not produce doomsday, or even a recession, just a lower rate of world growth. Repeat : at this time, the economies of practically all the countries of the world are growing. A slower rate of growth - caused by high oil prices - is not a recession.

3. Both Turkey and Indonesia - two of the world's largest Muslim countries - recently held credible, rather peaceful elections, and show every evidence of deepening their democratic processes. Turkey will join the European Community in the near future. Another country with a huge Muslim population - India - continues to prosper both economically and democratically. The fear that Muslim extremism is about to take over the world is belied by the progress of democracy in these large Muslim countries. That is a positive development.

4. Because of the present rapid economic growth in Asia, European and American investors have been advised to invest in Asia. Over the last several months, plenty of foreign funds have come into the Philippine stock exchange, and this is why local stock prices have in general increased even as all this bad news keeps coming out about the Philippine economy. Furthermore, some of the local bad news is exaggerated. Government Corporations have been attacked for losing money, but in fact only some of them lose money; and if you remove NAPOCOR - which is a special case - the picture is much, much better. Strong measures are presently being taken to reduce the government's budget deficit (for instance, the indexation of liquor and alcohol taxes) and these developments are to be applauded, not condemned. Foreign investors praise our government for these strong measures.

5. In particular, Philippine mining, cement, and property stocks have risen spectacularly. China keeps importing metals to support its construction boom, and this drives up world metal prices, in turn pushing up prices of Philex (has doubled in 5 months) and other local mining stocks. Philippine mining stocks will continue to increase over the long-term. And it is very possible that the Supreme Court will rethink its recent decisions that were unfavorable to foreign mining firms which want to invest in the Philippines. Our mines can help us to dig ourselves out of our financial problems.

Does all this mean that the Philippines is in good economic shape? No, but these factors mean that we have three or four years to get our economic house in order - as GMA is trying to to do with increased taxes, slashed government expenditures, more favorable terms for foreign investors, and other strong measures.

We still have a chance to muddle through. It isn't all bad.

atmarcella
10-18-2004, 03:28
Originally posted by darwin25
How do you do it? Arguing with in-laws are never stimulating for some.;f

add some beer and pulutan darwin25:cool:

New_comer
10-18-2004, 04:24
IT ISN'T ALL BAD
Singing a different tune now, eh ante? ;) :cool:

My list of notable Filipino inventions:

Milagrosa rice
Nata de coco
banana q
Litson manok (baboy at baka, malamang atin din diba?;))
balut
Pinakbet
bukayo
Rice terraces
coco-diesel (?)
Love bug virus
"Bata" reyes
Kaong
Barong Tagalog (sino pa nga ba? ;))
arnis
jolen
luksong tinik
touching robber
monkey anabel
patintero
sipa
touching
etcetera, etcetera
;f

antediluvianist
10-18-2004, 04:41
"IT ISN'T ALL BAD

Singing a different tune now, eh ante?"

Well, actually, I had to come up with something good to say for a column. Let's put it this way : 80% bad, 20% good ("It Isn't ALL Bad"- just mostly). It's still a good idea for one's children to emigrate to the West if possible.

julianz
10-18-2004, 07:06
Originally posted by New_comer

Singing a different tune now, eh ante? ;) :cool:

My list of notable Filipino inventions:

Milagrosa rice
Nata de coco
banana q
Litson manok (baboy at baka, malamang atin din diba?;))
balut
Pinakbet
bukayo
Rice terraces
coco-diesel (?)
Love bug virus
"Bata" reyes
Kaong
Barong Tagalog (sino pa nga ba? ;))
arnis
jolen
luksong tinik
touching robber
monkey anabel
patintero
sipa
touching
etcetera, etcetera
;f
-Tumbang preso- laro yan di literally tinutumba yung mga preso sa Munte;f
-ABS bitter Herbs
-Carica herbal Cigar
-Pito-Pito
-Toning water
-Manny Paquio, Gabriel Flash Elorde( magaling mga Pinoy makipagbasagan ng Mukha.
-Danao Pistols, Sumpak, Pana (Use by teenage gang)
-Mixing Kerosene with engine Gas or Diesel.
-Puto /kutsinta..not sure about taho.
-Kalan de uleng, Kalan de ipa, kalan de Kusot, Kalan dian (Prostitutes) male pala uso na nga pala Cortisans sa France nung araw panahon ni King Louie and Napoleon.
Wala lang tayo supporta .im sure kahit kwentong kutsero about Pinoys inventing something..meron din authetic..due to lack of funds and support nauuwe sa wala...and if some have sold it to foreign companies we cannot blaim our inventors.

New_comer
10-18-2004, 17:35
Syangapala, nalimutan ko...

Dagdag-bawas (ginaya nga sa States nung 2000, di ba?) ;)

horge
10-24-2004, 20:56
Patis.

It really is ours, though not ours alone.
Up until the 1970's, none of our neighbours, dared to claim that they invented this stuff. It would be ridiculous to --as the common assumption would be that everyone was already making it, with nary a chance of finding out whose ancestor first chanced on it. It's such a simple thing really, Everybody salts fish. If you then put it in a jar and forget about it, over time it degenerates into a yellow-brown liquid and a lot of solids.

The 'claims of invention' problem stated when a certain Aling Tentay (Ruperta David) made this ridiculous claim that no patis existed in these islands before she INVENTED it in 1946. This opened the door to Vietnam, Thailand, China and others now claiming THEY had it first.

Now, I'll grant that Aling Tentay may have stumbled upon a faster way to make it in 1946, and then founded her company Tentay Food & Sauces later in 1949. I however cannot call it anything but a lie that she invented it, and especially that there was no patis around until after the Second World War. Even the Philippine Daily Inquirer bought into this lie.

If Spanish records are to be treated with doubt, how about a US Commonwealth report? In 1934 Prof. Felipe Adriano and co-workers at the Bureau of Plant Industry in Manila published a detailed, 15-page report on toyo. They noted that toyo was not as widely used in the Philippines as in other Asian countries because of the local popularity of patis, a fish sauce. This 1935 record of patis predates Aling Tentay's lie. There are documents in the Newberry Library in Chicago, observations rfrom around 1901, that also refer to the stench of a clear urine-smeling sauce used to salt dishes. In fact the smelly liquid gets much mention in Spanish records as far back as 1633, with possible references (coulda been soupy bagooong balayan, I admit) going back to 1599.

None of our Asian neighbours have documentation going that far back, but then we've always had this practical respect and humility, acknowledging that MAYBE someone else came up with it first.

The earliest record of anything like it worldwide refers us to the Greeks, who used a fish-sauce called garos. Small fish were packed in jars with lots of salt, and allowed to ferment and degrade, whence the liquid was drawn. The Romans called it garum, and garum sociorum from mackerel was most prized. There were other grades of fish-sauce: muria made from tuna, liquamen from assorted common small fish, and the bagoong-like allec.

The Thais (nam pla), Vienamese (nuoc nam) and Cambodians and others make a less-smelly fish sauce. This is because they clean the fish first. We Filipinos tend to put in the whole fish. The Greeks did the same, and the Romans even threw additional fish guts and gills into the mix, to incease the sauce's treasured pungency.


Ahh. I feel better now.
I have to et stuff like that out now and then, or I get eveb more irritable.

;)

doctabako
10-25-2004, 04:49
Originally posted by horge
Patis.

The 'claims of invention' problem stated when a certain Aling Tentay (Ruperta David) made this ridiculous claim that no patis existed in these islands before she INVENTED it in 1946.

That claim is BS and Balayenos laugh at that. Everybody here knows that Patis and Bagoong undergo the same manufacturing process. If you let Bagoong stand for a while, you will see that the solids will settle(sediment) and the top part(supernatant) is Patis. Bagoong's quality is usually determined by this sedimentation, if you can see Patis on top, that's good Bagong. Watered down stuff usually takes a long time to settle and the top part is murky. Bagoong has been a product of Balayan even before the Spanish came here. Balayan is one of the earliest settlements in Luzon and in early times the elders state that you know you're near Balayan by the smell of Bagoong. Nowadays, there are very few producers of the stuff and most of the products in Manila even come from Navotas but are labelled Bagoong Balayan.

I'm not saying that Bagoong or Patis was invented here as our Asian neighbors all have similar fish sauces. Even Lingayen in Pangasinan has a similar product.
Patis is one of those products that probably existed ever since man learned to preserve fish by salting it. No one can claim with certainty who first came across it.
Its just like saying that so and so was the first prostitute;f

New_comer
10-25-2004, 05:07
It is now apparent that we have to impose our intellectual property rights on these inventions by copyrighting the processes and having them recognized internationally. We could then justifiably ask, better yet, demand for royalty payments from those who profit in using these processes.

We could then pay off our foreign debt using funds generated from these royalties.

/dream mode = on ;)

atmarcella
01-15-2005, 20:53
Don't even get me started on erythromycin, waterpowered cars or patis.[/B][/QUOTE]





sir, i just found out thru an uncle hus a surgeon, erythromycin was invented by an ilonggo, named dr. aguilar, i 4got the first name, his research was financed by elly lilly, he discovered the fungus in iloilo back in the 60's, and as usual he never got a single centavo for it;f

horge
01-16-2005, 15:10
Abelardo Aguilar was then working as an environmental surveyor for Eli Lilly. As their employee, he collected the soil sample that Eli Lilly's lab rats analysed and isolated an antibiotic from. The ulitmate market form of the drug is not an isolate but rather a synthetate based on the former.

Aguilar was doing his job, and the company employing him reaped the benefits from it. But not entirely. Eli Lilly --thiough it wasn't obligated to, gave Aguilar and relatives an all-expenses paid trip to the US and a tour of Eli Lilly's vast facility, as well as an undislosed sum of US currency ($10,000 is the most often-speculated amount), and US scholarships in medical research for his kin. Aguilar DID get his centavos out of it... although later in life declined to refute the rumor-mongerers claiming otherwise, no doubt frustrated at seeing Eli Lilly reaping billions since 1952 from the world's first macrolide antibiotic.

The market preparation sold by Eli Lilly, a synthetate patterned after the active component of the sample collected by Aguilar, was initially marketed as Ilotycin and Ilosone (in honor of Iloilo, where the natural sample was collected, and Aguilar's home province). The generic name of the synthetate is erythromycin, properly in reference to the mycobacterial pattern-material.

There is no enabling law for patenting a natural lifeform, to base royalties on for either Aguilar or the Republic of the Philippines, and the Republic freely allowed Eli Lilly's bio-prospecting.

Intellectual property is protected for a number of years, but the bulk of the analysis and development of an effective synthetate was carried out by Eli Lilly. That Aguilar collected the sample as an Eli Lilly employee and eagerly and urgently submitted said sample to Eli Lilly, knowing its pharmaceutical potential (else, why the urgent submission?), is enough.

:)

atmarcella
01-17-2005, 05:43
thanks sir,
dami mo talaga alam;f

st. matthew
11-21-2005, 07:14
itaas ko lang ;f
gandang basahin,very informative:)
sir horge;W ;W:)

MR_BIG
11-21-2005, 08:10
if u guys have time, pls go to national bookstore and look for bob ong's book, BAKIT BALIKTAD MAGBASA NG LIBRO ANG MGA PILIPINO, very informative,

http://www.pinoyblog.com/index.php?/updated/comments/bobong-pinoy/

antediluvianist
11-21-2005, 11:12
"I'm not saying that Bagoong or Patis was invented here as our Asian neighbors all have similar fish sauces."

doctabako is of course correct. The Indonesians , Malaysians,Singaporeans, Thais , Vietnamese, Cambodians and others would snicker if they heard that anyone in the Philippines was actually claiming to have invented Patis.

Ever had "KangKong Balachan" in Singapore/Malaysia/Indonesia? It's very good: KangKong with Bagoong-type sauce. Southeast Asians, not just Malays, have been eating stuff like this- KangKong Balachan is just one out of many examples - since before the Spaniards.

horge
11-21-2005, 15:30
Exhuming carcasses now, are we?

:)

st. matthew
11-21-2005, 16:28
;J ;J :)

antediluvianist
11-21-2005, 17:41
Didn't know you had a monopoly on some discussions.

isuzu
11-21-2005, 18:23
For one, Jabba the Hutt (tama ba ang spelling?) of the Star Wars movies was a Filipino creation (well, the guy was based in California).

Thais used to study at IRRI and Victorias Milling Company. They now produce better and more rice than us. Their sugar mills are way too efficient than ours. They sugar farms also produce more sugarcane per hectare.

A friend told me once during our long drinking sessions years back. He said:

"There are only three kinds of people in the world:

1. Those who make things happen;
2. Those who watch things happen;
3. and those who wondered what happened."

We certainly don't want to be the last on the list.;f

horge
11-22-2005, 00:47
Originally posted by antediluvianist
Didn't know you had a monopoly on some discussions.


;A
Uh oh...
Did I say something that offended you, ante?

theTactician
11-26-2005, 00:46
I almost believed that a "brilliant filipino inventor" designed the M16a1 rifle...fluke pala. hehehe. well, just think about it, we have very good inventors in the philippines for sure...but... the thing is, no filipino government can invest some amount of money to provide funds for these inventors..why? kasi, pinupulitika at napupunta sa bulsa ng mga corrupt filipino government officials. Am I right? or wrong? hehehe. well, thats just an opinion.
sayang ang galing nating mga pinoy...

antediluvianist
11-26-2005, 02:08
Originally posted by horge
;A
Uh oh...
Did I say something that offended you, ante?

Let's just bury it. Am getting old and cranky. Time for my hormone pill.

horge
11-26-2005, 05:18
Ante,
I was only teasing st. matthew for resurrecting an old thread.

---

As for your interesting comments re: 'kangkong balachan',
if that dish's name is of respectable age, one might take that
as slim circumstancial evidence that Filipino patis and bagoong
predates the similar sauces of your "Singapore / Malaysia / Indonesia".

Balachan/balachong seems connectable to the Filipino Balayan
(as in, bagoong balayan), in turn identified with Balayan Bay
in Batangas, site of many ancient settlements of early Filipinos.

The Malay word 'balay' refers to a dwelling, while 'balayan'
generally means dwelling-place (omitting the Subanon burial ritual 'balayan'),
so direct etymological connection of your Sino-Malay 'balachan'/'balachong'
directly to a 'fishppaste' or 'fish sauce' of any sort can be rather tenuous.

Geographic (placename) connection is another matter: from ancient times,
Balayan Bay in Batangas has long been associated with the
production of both bagoong and patis, and if our Southeast Asian neighbors'
ancestors identified the sauces with an archaic 'Balayan', corrupting
the name over time, then Batangas is possibly gound zero.


Unless of course, an older Chinese etymology for balachong, directly
referring to fish or fish paste can be found ---and that's way out
of my reckoning.

:)
horge